SOCIAL GROUP: Atheists, agnostics, free-thinkers, non-believers

[Guest inoubliable]

 

I'm confused why the waitress was fired.

 

 

Supposedly it was because she violated the customer's right to privacy. Or some sh*t.

[4kidlets4me]

There is a right to privacy with regards to a receipt? It's not like someone posted her medical records or something?

[Guest inoubliable]

There is a right to privacy with regards to a receipt? It's not like someone posted her medical records or something?

 

 

Not that I'm aware of. Nothing legally, anyway. This was supposedly something to do with company policy. The waitress says that she looked over the employee handbook and didn't see where she'd done anything wrong. I think I smell a lawsuit a'brewin'.

[4kidlets4me]

Yeah I think I'd be consulting a lawyer on that one. But if the creepy dentist can get away with firing his longtime female employee because he was tempted to have an affair maybe they can get away with firing this waitress. This makes me glad I don't work anymore.

[Izzy]

 

 

Yes!!

 

 

Is there a pic?? I can't see it. I just see an empty box. :(

[suzybluecheese]

Aack! I'm from TX too. Are we to blame for the textbooks? My brother had mentioned something about TX trying to take Thomas Jefferson out, presumably because of his beliefs. It would also explain why I made straight A's and don't know a thing about science.

 

I believe that we are one of the largest textbook purchasers, so most textbooks follow our standards.

 

I'm with you about not knowing much Science. Unfortunately, my children aren't much better off because I can't choose a good secular Science curriculum. Once I read a pamphlet aimed at chidren that read something like: You don't think that if you stick your arm in a freezer that you would grow hair, do you? Well, that's what scientist who believe in evolution think. :bored: Well, I knew enough about evol. to know that isn't how it worked, but I didn't know enough to explain it. With that, I decided that my children will know how evolution works, and how to think critically.

[Izzy]

 

 

 

Awesomefully funny point. I'm paying cash for my house. With I could kick the Xtians across the street to the curb. Clearly, I'm better!! :lol:

 

We could start our own church? Of course, the no debt rule doesn't apply to us since we're in charge. ;)

[Guest inoubliable]

Is there a pic?? I can't see it. I just see an empty box. :(

 

Boards are wonky and not loading right. :( It's too bad, really. It was a testament to my genius and skills on memegenerator.com.

[Guest inoubliable]

I'll join your church on 2 conditions. You have good food and booze. Cuz I'm hungry right now and I could go for a drink.

 

 

I think you'd fit right in as a Pastafarian then.

 

There's also this - http://www.venganza.org/ordination/

I sent away for one. I'll be applying at the local courthouse to perform wedding ceremonies. We'll see what happens.

 

I could be down with an afterlife full of stripper factories and a beer volcano.

[suzybluecheese]

Here's something a little crazy! It was right after Christmas last year that I was at Applebee's with my husband's mother and aunt. His aunt said about God only asking 10%. My reply was that the waiter couldn't turn water into wine. This makes me want to call my mother-in-law and have a good laugh with her!

[dbmamaz]

I'm with you about not knowing much Science. Unfortunately, my children aren't much better off because I can't choose a good secular Science curriculum.

 

i've been using a lot of living science books. For evolution, my younger one loved the Charlie's Playhouse timeline and cards. He would just randomly look over them or make up games with them. and he also LOVED the walking with dinosaur series, but esp the walking w prehistoric monsters. and no, its not about people being there w dinos. Its done like a wildlife show, and great cgi, so you see the prehistoric animals in their environment, hunting whatever they eat. you see the climate changes in sped-up graphics. its really awesome.

 

i tried and gave up on several curriculum. we did a bunch of hands-on science from a variety of sources last year, and this year my son has a bunch of science books at his level in a bin and he just has to read 15 minutes and tell me something about what he read (it was copy a sentence, but i had to drop that to do LOE - writing is just so gut-wrenching for him)

[Izzy]

 

 

I believe that we are one of the largest textbook purchasers, so most textbooks follow our standards.

 

I'm with you about not knowing much Science. Unfortunately, my children aren't much better off because I can't choose a good secular Science curriculum. Once I read a pamphlet aimed at chidren that read something like: You don't think that if you stick your arm in a freezer that you would grow hair, do you? Well, that's what scientist who believe in evolution think. :bored: Well, I knew enough about evol. to know that isn't how it worked, but I didn't know enough to explain it. With that, I decided that my children will know how evolution works, and how to think critically.

 

 

I ordered My Father's World when I first started HSing and a book about dinosaurs living at the same time as people came with it. I was utterly confused. And then I found out there were a lot of people that actually believed it. My mind was blown when I heard there were other people that taught their kids that dinosaurs didn't exist and the bones were planted by the debil to confuse us.

[Izzy]

I'll join your church on 2 conditions. You have good food and booze. Cuz I'm hungry right now and I could go for a drink.

 

 

Well, of course! It will be a tax deduction!

[Guest inoubliable]

i've been using a lot of living science books. For evolution, my younger one loved the Charlie's Playhouse timeline and cards. He would just randomly look over them or make up games with them. and he also LOVED the walking with dinosaur series, but esp the walking w prehistoric monsters. and no, its not about people being there w dinos. Its done like a wildlife show, and great cgi, so you see the prehistoric animals in their environment, hunting whatever they eat. you see the climate changes in sped-up graphics. its really awesome.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing! I'd never heard of this resource! It looks like something my 5 year old would enjoy.

[delaney]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

[Izzy]

 

 

I think you'd fit right in as a Pastafarian then.

 

There's also this - http://www.venganza.org/ordination/

I sent away for one. I'll be applying at the local courthouse to perform wedding ceremonies. We'll see what happens.

 

I could be down with an afterlife full of stripper factories and a beer volcano.

 

 

I want this just to have it displayed on my wall. I'm much too shy to perform a wedding.

[dbmamaz]

1. what/who do you think created the universe

big bang. its fascinating and wondrous and amazing! before the big bang? some evidence is coming to show the big bang was more a change than a beginning. we know so much about the history of the universe, showing that all religious explanations are so far from the truth, that I have no faith that any 'pretend' story needs to be invented. its just beyond our current scientific understanding, but we are getting closer all the time

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

even animals do things to help each other out. its simple evolution. animals which help each other survive better than animals that dont. so that intrinsic sense of right and wrong is selected for and spreads, where selfishness and violence would be less likely to create a successful community. unfortunately modern society makes it easier for even mal-adjusted humans to survive and reproduce.

[Guest inoubliable]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

Universe - Big Bang Theory. There was no "who" involved.

I love this video -

 

Reason. You instinctively know that you don't want to be hurt or die, right? So you don't do the same to others. Society has cultivated legal systems designed to keep things fair all in a bid to keep people from being harmed and protect each other from those mentally diseased or abused enough to inflict harm. Emotionally, we rely on empathy to sort out degrees of fairness. This is something that comes with proper socialization during development. No higher power involved there. Survival instinct and socialization.

[Izzy]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

1. IDK I'm Agnostic and am open to there being god, gods, goddess, or goddesses. I'm 99.9999% sure it's not the gods people have created though. I imagine if there is a god then it's not one that cares about being known.

2. Right from wrong comes from our reason. The fact that we can look at something in the bible and know that its wrong shows that we don't need a god to give us morals. What strikes me the most is humans are naturally more ethical than the god in the bible. So it seems like a wiser choice to follow our own reason than just trust that this god is perfect so who are we to question him. Kwim?

[Rosie_0801]

 

 

One of the biggest obstacles, IMO, is that area churches seem to have a huge presence here. As in, church is the place to go for help. It doesn't mean you're going to get help, but that's where you go. Even if you don't think you're hitting up a church for something in your community, a church is behind (financially) the organization you're going to. So, church presence definitely and money. There are finite resources even with the biggest churches, but secular volunteer groups are often turned away anyway.

 

I had proposed things like applying to "adopt" a local stretch of highway. No one wanted to mess with it because "the churches had it taken care of". :glare: I suggested getting together a group of people to donate supplies and money to provide a local food bank or soup kitchen with food and/or ready to serve meals. Before we could move forward with anything, area churches had stepped in (and the people in charge said that they would have loved for more food/money/volunteers but that the church pretty much said that they would take care of it all). The only thing I've ever gotten off the ground here was a group to get together backpacks full of school supplies to send to school children displaced by Hurricane Katrina. We got about 70 packs together and shipped off. I've gotten nothing off the ground since then.

 

 

I'd like to see a see an openly secular community cleaning up parks and neighborhoods, providing grants to area fire departments and police departments, sponsoring book drives, providing a place for big neighborhood dinners, community gardens, neighborhood watch groups. Of course, I'm glad to see secular forces striving for political power, but I think that a strong community presence is something to develop.

 

Wow. That sound like laziness/ lack of global thinking and a whole lot of what I can only call weirdness! (Not feeling eloquent this morning.) But I suppose in some areas, anything involving financing would be draining from such a small population that it couldn't be sustained? Perhaps the way to get going is be involved with already existing groups. Or are Land Care, creek cleaning, tree planting groups and library homework clubs all owned by the churches too?

 

The "leaders" of our pagan group are trying towards some of these things by having a food bank and auctions towards worthy causes. I say "leaders" because while they are the driving force, it being their idea and all, they aren't the boss of all that much and don't think they are any more the boss of anyone than the average moderator on a chat group. The worthy causes seem to be surgery for pets and to hire trucks for the down and out to move house, lol. The donated items rarely sell for more than $30, but every bit counts, as they say. I'm not in a position to contribute in any significant way at this point in life, but it is interesting to see what they are trying to build.

 

I am suprised there is such a stigma to being openly atheist where you live because there totally isn't here.

You're quoting my quote of someone else, lol. There is no stigma here to being openly atheist unless you come from a rah rah church family.

 

yeah, i guess i grew up with a religion that didnt feel oppressive to athiests, I have no interest in dismantling religion, and i never had a deconversion from anything. i see plenty of non-church organizations doing things, and i also belong to a UU church, totally accepting of secular humanists . . . with the understanding that we are also totally accepting of christians. we each take our own path and respect that. i guess even among athiests i dont fit in

 

You've probably noticed that atheists are not all dancing to the one drummer? And you've probably also noticed disagreement in music taste? I've only noticed one here who wishes to dismantle religion entirely.

 

Misty Mountain, what about Spiral Scouts? Is that not an option where you live? We don't have them here, though I'm tempted to form our own Hearth when the kids are older.

[Rosie_0801]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

 

Dunno. I could tell you my favourite story I've made up though.

 

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

 

 

My mother nagged me a lot as a child. :p Kohlberg's model explains the development reasonably well, which I assume works as others have described.

 

 

Those looking for evolution stuff could enrol in the this course and watch the week one vids. https://www.coursera.org/course/geneticsevolution

[suzybluecheese]

i've been using a lot of living science books. For evolution, my younger one loved the Charlie's Playhouse timeline and cards. He would just randomly look over them or make up games with them. and he also LOVED the walking with dinosaur series, but esp the walking w prehistoric monsters. and no, its not about people being there w dinos. Its done like a wildlife show, and great cgi, so you see the prehistoric animals in their environment, hunting whatever they eat. you see the climate changes in sped-up graphics. its really awesome.

 

i tried and gave up on several curriculum. we did a bunch of hands-on science from a variety of sources last year, and this year my son has a bunch of science books at his level in a bin and he just has to read 15 minutes and tell me something about what he read (it was copy a sentence, but i had to drop that to do LOE - writing is just so gut-wrenching for him)

 

Thank you. Honestly, I should just have them read as you do with your son. I just keep thinking that there HAS to be the perfect curriculum out there, but I just haven't found it! Unfortunately, this moves me to do nothing at all but wait for it to come to me.

[suzybluecheese]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

1. I have to say that the only time I really think that there may be an intellegence out there is when I hear how the universe was probably really created. Because after hearing about the Big Bang, what it takes for life to form, evolution, procreation; all I can think is, "And here I sit!" It is all too much for my little brain. How much would this intellegent being be involved in my daily life? I haven't the foggiest.

 

2. How did our brains develop empathy? All I can tell you is that I am good because good is good. (That's poor grammar, right?) Good is right.

 

Here is something interesting. There was a thought out there one time that it isn't really us dictating our own lives, it is our genes. I'm not sure if I can explain this idea very well. Has anyone else heard of this? I know I heard a discussion of this on NPR a long time back.

[Izzy]

 

 

Here is something interesting. There was a thought out there one time that it isn't really us dictating our own lives, it is our genes. I'm not sure if I can explain this idea very well. Has anyone else heard of this? I know I heard a discussion of this on NPR a long time back.

 

 

Yes, I have heard this! Was it something about not really having free will? Excuse my poor science terminology, but it's more like neurons line up and you're already going to do something before you're actually aware of it? See, this is what I'm really interested in right now - genes, brain chemistry, etc. It's all fascinating.

[suzybluecheese]

Yes, I have heard this! Was it something about not really having free will? Excuse my poor science terminology, but it's more like neurons line up and you're already going to do something before you're actually aware of it? See, this is what I'm really interested in right now - genes, brain chemistry, etc. It's all fascinating.

 

 

I was afraid no one would know what I was talking about! I can remember listening to a program on NPR while working. Of course, it didn't have my full attention. I've always said I was going to find out more about it. All I can really remember is that it may be our genes trying to ensure their survival rather than us.

[Izzy]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-01-01/free-will-science-religion/52317624/1

 

I found an article on it. I know both Dawkins and Harris have written about it.

[4kidlets4me]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

 

 

1. I'm Agnostic and do think someone/something created it. I don't know who/what and I don't really care.

2. I agree it comes from reason. I don't want to die so why would I kill someone.

[suzybluecheese]

http://usatoday30.us...gion/52317624/1

 

I found an article on it. I know both Dawkins and Harris have written about it.

 

 

 

Cool! I'll have a nice read tonight. I've just scanned it so far. I'm thinking that I'll have to start refering to my brain as my "meat computer." Or rather, my genes are telling me I should.

[Corraleno]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

1. the laws of physics

 

2. I don't think people DO have an "innate" sense of right and wrong — I think that's a cultural construct that's built "on top of" basic biological instincts that have evolved in most pack animals.

 

For example, the "moral value" that killing is wrong only applies to one's own group — killing humans from other tribes/religions/territories/etc. is not only allowed but glorified in most cultures. Ditto with stealing — don't steal from your neighbor, but raiding/looting/plundering those "bad guys" over there is great. Don't covet your neighbor's wife, but feel free to rape/capture/enslave women from the next group over.

 

Wendy mentioned that eating people is wrong, but there have been cultures where cannibalism was an important and highly ritualized part of their religion — generally either eating vanquished enemies in order to gain their strength and courage, or eating members of one's own tribe/family after they'd died. Many things that we (in modern Western culture) would consider inherently immoral have been not only accepted but honored or revered in other cultures. And in most cultures, throughout human history, things that would be immoral if committed against a fellow member of the group would be perfectly OK if committed against others.

 

Where the line is between "us" and "them" varies greatly by culture. In small Amazonian tribes, for example, "us" may be 30 closely related people, and "them" may be everyone else they ever come into contact with. For some people, "us" may be a very specific religious sect, and "them" may be all other religions. Or "us" might be "white people," or "rich people," or "Americans," or it may be "all humans."

 

I honestly cannot think of a single "moral value" that exists in all cultures in a way that applies to all humans (not just one's own group), so I have to conclude that morals are not innate (meaning inborn) in humans, but rather represent the assignment of cultural values to an evolutionarily beneficial trait (protecting your own "pack").

 

Jackie

[Audrey]

http://jobs.aol.com/...nk3&pLid=264070

 

(Pastor wrote a note on his receipt complaining about the tip)

 

I say he's too much of a coward to question the restaurant manger himself, but a big enough jerk to write it to the waiter.

He even decides to leave no tip at all!

 

 

 

When I was in college, the cheapest customers were always, hands-down, the after-church Sunday brunch/lunch crowd. Chick Tracts and that day's church program are not tips. :glare:

 

I so hated having to work Sundays. The cheapness of it all was compounded by the fact that you could be paid less than minimum wage (significantly less!) because, in theory, you would make more than minimum with tips. That is such a bogus system. What if you work in a small restaurant and get few tables that shift? You're stuck with next to no pay.

 

Thankfully, up here, servers are required to be paid at least minimum wage --- just like every other employee -- and tips are not calculated as meeting part of that wage.

[Audrey]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

 

1. The Big Bang

2. The human ability to reason.

 

No gods need apply to either.

[HomeschoolMamaOfTwo]

A few interesting articles I ran across today.

 

http://offthebench.n...-games/related/

Title says it all. One in four thinks the Super Bowl is decided by god, eh? :blink:

 

 

 

Wow, just wow. That is just plain insane to me. Why would he care about the outcome of a football game and ignore so many tragic things going on in the world?

[HRAAB]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

 

Hope it's okay if I follow along. Most days I call myself a hopeful agnostic, but I definitely have a spiritual side to me. Anyway, the above bolded is what I always come back to. Some years ago when I was trying to make sense of God but not having much luck yet not wanting to entirely let go, I started thinking of god as the big bang. Since I'm not a scientist I could imagine god exploding and becoming the universe. But then that made us God. Christians get in such a habit of saying "it's God's will". I couldn't do that any longer because I had started viewing all humanity, the entire universe, as God. That made us responsible. It was our will. There was no divine plan, it was us. That really made me start viewing humanity very differently. I couldn't write events off with 'god has a plan'. I really don't know what I believe right now today, but I like my story way better than Genesis one.

 

As to knowing right from wrong, I would say evolution and our culture.

 

I'm enjoying reading what everyone has to share.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

Hope it's okay if I follow along.

 

I'm enjoying reading what everyone has to share.

 

Welcome aboard. :)

[suzybluecheese]

 

Hope it's okay if I follow along. Most days I call myself a hopeful agnostic, but I definitely have a spiritual side to me. Anyway, the above bolded is what I always come back to. Some years ago when I was trying to make sense of God but not having much luck yet not wanting to entirely let go, I started thinking of god as the big bang. Since I'm not a scientist I could imagine god exploding and becoming the universe. But then that made us God. Christians get in such a habit of saying "it's God's will". I couldn't do that any longer because I had started viewing all humanity, the entire universe, as God. That made us responsible. It was our will. There was no divine plan, it was us. That really made me start viewing humanity very differently. I couldn't write events off with 'god has a plan'. I really don't know what I believe right now today, but I like my story way better than Genesis one.

 

As to knowing right from wrong, I would say evolution and our culture.

 

I'm enjoying reading what everyone has to share.

 

Welcome and well said!

 

On a side note, I love your avatar. We had a rabbit named Harvey.

[Guest inoubliable]

No way am I throwing this up on the main board, but I'll leave it here. It's a petition to the BSA council who sits down on Monday to vote in their new policy regarding gays.

http://www.hrc.org/

(Link is to the right. Apparently it had my information in the fields of the first link.)

 

Perfect way to let them know that pulling a Pontius Pilot doesn't make them less bigoted.

[LucyStoner]

I ordered My Father's World when I first started HSing and a book about dinosaurs living at the same time as people came with it. I was utterly confused. And then I found out there were a lot of people that actually believed it. My mind was blown when I heard there were other people that taught their kids that dinosaurs didn't exist and the bones were planted by the debil to confuse us.

 

Does that make all that oil the work of the debil too? What do these people think they are pumping into their cars?

[delaney]

1. the laws of physics

 

2. I don't think people DO have an "innate" sense of right and wrong — I think that's a cultural construct that's built "on top of" basic biological instincts that have evolved in most pack animals.

 

For example, the "moral value" that killing is wrong only applies to one's own group — killing humans from other tribes/religions/territories/etc. is not only allowed but glorified in most cultures. Ditto with stealing — don't steal from your neighbor, but raiding/looting/plundering those "bad guys" over there is great. Don't covet your neighbor's wife, but feel free to rape/capture/enslave women from the next group over.

 

Wendy mentioned that eating people is wrong, but there have been cultures where cannibalism was an important and highly ritualized part of their religion — generally either eating vanquished enemies in order to gain their strength and courage, or eating members of one's own tribe/family after they'd died. Many things that we (in modern Western culture) would consider inherently immoral have been not only accepted but honored or revered in other cultures. And in most cultures, throughout human history, things that would be immoral if committed against a fellow member of the group would be perfectly OK if committed against others.

 

Where the line is between "us" and "them" varies greatly by culture. In small Amazonian tribes, for example, "us" may be 30 closely related people, and "them" may be everyone else they ever come into contact with. For some people, "us" may be a very specific religious sect, and "them" may be all other religions. Or "us" might be "white people," or "rich people," or "Americans," or it may be "all humans."

 

I honestly cannot think of a single "moral value" that exists in all cultures in a way that applies to all humans (not just one's own group), so I have to conclude that morals are not innate (meaning inborn) in humans, but rather represent the assignment of cultural values to an evolutionarily beneficial trait (protecting your own "pack").

 

Jackie

Ah! I had never thought of that. That makes me think of a time when things like throwing people to the lions for sport was fun for people. I guess somewhere along the line we evolved as a species and so did our thinking??

[Lady Florida.]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

 

I don't know, but I doubt it was something/someone supernatural. I don't have the knowledge or training to know, so I will leave it to the physicists, astronomers, and other scientists who study this.

 

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

They are just as the bolded suggests - innate. To go a little further - evolution.

 

Now I'll go read others' responses - I didn't want to be influenced, and wanted to answer first.

[Jennifer3141]

In addition to signing the petitions going around, could you all take a few minutes and just send an email? You can email them right through the BS wesbite but the telephone number that was going around for the vote has been taken down. They need to hear from as many rational people as possible.

[Lady Florida.]

When I was in college, the cheapest customers were always, hands-down, the after-church Sunday brunch/lunch crowd.

 

:iagree: My mother worked in food service most of her life. I worked it when I needed a second job. Nearly anyone who's ever worked in the field will tell you the church crowd are the absolute worst tippers.

[Corraleno]

Ah! I had never thought of that. That makes me think of a time when things like throwing people to the lions for sport was fun for people. I guess somewhere along the line we evolved as a species and so did our thinking??

 

I don't think we have evolved as a species — there are still vast numbers of humans who think that murder, rape, and other atrocities are OK, as long as they're committed against people who are "less than human," either by virtue of their race, religion, nationality, social class, or "state of sin." Read about Srebrenica, or the Khmer Rouge, or the Rape of Nanking, or the Rwandan genocide, or the Holocaust for that matter.

 

Iran has just developed a machine for chopping fingers off, which they demonstrated on a prisoner convicted of "robbery and immoral conduct" a couple of days ago in front of a public crowd (there are photos all over the internet). A young woman was recently executed for adultery in a stadium full of onlookers, and "traitors" were hung from a bridge, without blindfolds, in front of a cheering crowd. How is that any different from Christians & lions?

 

I think the fact that some people think these things are absolutely unequivocally immoral, regardless of whether the victims are one of "us" or the "other," is due to a growing sense (mostly among educated Westerners) that there's really only one "tribe" — human beings. And I think that comes in part from the instant access we now have to photos and video of other countries and cultures. We see photos from space showing the earth as a tiny blue & green ball and some of us recognize that the differences are pretty miniscule compared to what we share.

 

But I think we're a long long LONG way from that being a universal sentiment. And honestly? I personally doubt that we'll ever get there. And I think religion is certainly part of what's keeping us from getting there — as long as people believe that their god is the only one, and that their god gives them permission to slaughter "the other," then there's not much hope.

 

Jackie

[LucyStoner]

In addition to signing the petitions going around, could you all take a few minutes and just send an email? You can email them right through the BS wesbite but the telephone number that was going around for the vote has been taken down. They need to hear from as many rational people as possible.

 

 

Email sent, from a cub scout mama.

[Jennifer3141]

:iagree: My mother worked in food service most of her life. I worked it when I needed a second job. Nearly anyone who's ever worked in the field will tell you the church crowd are the absolute worst tippers.

 

 

 

I worked at Village Inn for a year aout 15 years ago. We used to FIGHT over the front room on Sunday nights because those were Xtians from the after 6:00 p.m. service. You'd work that entire room with a very rare thank you and for about 6% tips on average. It was unbelievable to me that these people came from church less than five minutes before walking in our door and then acted like that.

[Jennifer3141]

 

Email sent, from a cub scout mama.

 

 

 

I went to their FB page today but had to leave. The ignorance and hate was PAINFUL.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

I went to their FB page today but had to leave. The ignorance and hate was PAINFUL.

 

I knew there was a reason I had never ever been to their FB page. As far as I am concerned, cub scout troops are all more or less as tolerant and normal as the one in which we participate. I know that is untrue but I have to engage in some cognitive dissonance to let my son participate. Cub scouts is great for him (he adores his pinewood derby trophies, and group activities are perfect for him as a boy with HFA- structured but not solitary) but this policy change is LONG overdue. My son is a total atheist as well, more so than any other member of the family. We lump him in under UU.

[chiguirre]

As far as I am concerned, cub scout troops are all more or less as tolerant and normal as the one in which we participate. I know that is untrue but I have to engage in some cognitive dissonance to let my son participate. Cub scouts is great for him (he adores his pinewood derby trophies, and group activities are perfect for him as a boy with HFA- structured but not solitary) but this policy change is LONG overdue.

 

This is why Geezle is a cub scout too. He really loves it. I hope the loss of donors and the LDS LGBT outreach convince them to change their policy because I'd hate to lose G's favorite activity.

[Free]

I would like some input on 2 things:

1. what/who do you think created the universe

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

 

1. what/who do you think created the universe

 

We don't know yet.

 

When humans knew far less than we do now, God was invoked frequently to explain a vast range of phenomena from rains, lightning and thunder to storms, earthquakes, plagues and epidemics. Even when we now know that each of these has natural causes, we still invoke God to explain anything that we do not yet understand.

 

Do not know what came before the Big Bang? Must be God. Do not know how the first life came about? Must be God. As human knowledge expands, God's influence keeps ever receding to pockets of human ignorance.

 

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

There is no innate sense of right and wrong. Most people have to be taught right and wrong. What people may have however is innate compassion for others and our sense of right and wrong is often informed by this. But even compassion, love, kindness is not unique to humans. Anybody who has a dog can attest to that.

[Mom-ninja.]

Okay, I cannot keep up. You all talk a lot.

 

Way back a few hundred pages some of you mentioned religion and the brain. Here are some books that I'm planning to read some day.

 

And evolution

[Mom-ninja.]

2. Where does the innate sense of right and wrong we have come from?

I ponder these things and they are the only things that keep me looking for a higher power.

Thoughts??

 

 

I'm reading this book