LisaKinVA Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 You know, the things that can drive us nuts, but we can't feel like sharing with our friends or even family, because they would wonder why it's an issue? Things like...trying to teach your little basic subtraction, when they already understand negative integers (the problem asks if you can subtract 6-7, wanting a "no", for example), or working through even and odd concepts (can you share evenly), when they already understand fractions. Sometimes teaching the "simple" things suddenly become complicated...and I spend more time essentially teaching "test taking skills," than anything. Only parents here will understand the frustration that can go along with this ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Oh yes, asynchrony. The joys! How about knowing fractions but still forgetting 11-8? Or reading Mrs Frisby one day and writing his 'f' backwards the next? They keep ou on your toes, dont they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Things like...trying to teach your little basic subtraction, when they already understand negative integers (the problem asks if you can subtract 6-7, wanting a "no", for example), or working through even and odd concepts (can you share evenly), when they already understand fractions. Sometimes teaching the "simple" things suddenly become complicated...and I spend more time essentially teaching "test taking skills," than anything. I honestly don't see the problem.... even as a fellow mom of gifted kids. I would NOT bend to the simplifications of a math program that demands "no" as an answer where a negative number is a perfectly good result. I would simply explain to my kid that many kids do not yet understand these concepts and adapt the program. This was the one time my FIL went to school and raised a stink when DH was a kid, because DH had solved such subtraction problems correctly with negative numbers, but got marked off by the teacher. It sounds to me as if the program you are using is not a good fit for a kid with your son's mathematical abilities, and instead of trying to make HIM fit the program, I'd make the program fit him. But I completely agree that there are plenty of things about my kids I'd never post on fb- or share with other moms in our local group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I agree with you about the Facebook thing, but as for the advanced knowledge of math concepts, all you have to do is change how you're asking the question. Can you take 7 from 6 and get an integer greater than or equal to zero? Can you share evenly between two people (or whatever). The other thing I would do is say something like: What does the book think is the answer? But if you're doing multidigit subtraction and the kid is claiming that the "answer" for a particular "column" is negative, then either they're yanking your chain, or they're not understanding place value and how it relates to the algorithm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 I would NOT bend to the simplifications of a math program that demands "no" as an answer where a negative number is a perfectly good result. I would simply explain to my kid that many kids do not yet understand these concepts and adapt the program. This was the one time my FIL went to school and raised a stink when DH was a kid, because DH had solved such subtraction problems correctly with negative numbers, but got marked off by the teacher. Except, I live in a testing state. Beginning in the 1st grade, my kids have to pass standardized tests. If they don't learn how to answer the questions in the expected manner, they will fail the test. With these tests, it is not unusual for one of the answers to be "none." I could just see this child selecting that answer multiple times. I do not tell her her answers are wrong, but I would do her a disservice if I didn't also teach her to give the expected answer. (I can't afford to do the optional portfolio assessments). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 You know, the things that can drive us nuts, but we can't feel like sharing with our friends or even family, because they would wonder why it's an issue? Like last night, when ds did all the exercises to his AoPS lesson in his head, correctly, instead of writing them out properly? while continually making little squeaking noises like a small animal so as to drive his siblings to yelling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Except, I live in a testing state. Beginning in the 1st grade, my kids have to pass standardized tests. If they don't learn how to answer the questions in the expected manner, they will fail the test. With these tests, it is not unusual for one of the answers to be "none." I could just see this child selecting that answer multiple times. I do not tell her her answers are wrong, but I would do her a disservice if I didn't also teach her to give the expected answer. (I can't afford to do the optional portfolio assessments). I hear ya! Honestly I think that one way to distingush between the merely bright and the truly gifted is that bright kids often finish standardized tests faster. The bright kid can quickly find the answer that the test designer intends, while the gifted kid can see multiple "right" answers and has to sit there trying to figure out which one the test designer wants. Part of the giftedness is often creativity and while out-of-the-box thinking is useful in many situations, standardized testing isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachsr Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Like last night, when ds did all the exercises to his AoPS lesson in his head, correctly, instead of writing them out properly? while continually making little squeaking noises like a small animal so as to drive his siblings to yelling? I feel so relieved when I read such posts - my older DS makes these little squeaky noises from time to time driving his younger brother nuts. And yes he prefers to "not show his work" because his teacher "is smart enough to know the steps to arrive at the answer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I cannot tell you people how much better this thread has made me feel about my entire last two months-- from the asynchrony to the squeaking brother . . . we have had it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I hear ya! Honestly I think that one way to distingush between the merely bright and the truly gifted is that bright kids often finish standardized tests faster. The bright kid can quickly find the answer that the test designer intends, while the gifted kid can see multiple "right" answers and has to sit there trying to figure out which one the test designer wants. Part of the giftedness is often creativity and while out-of-the-box thinking is useful in many situations, standardized testing isn't one of them. I'm going to disagree here and say that while some gifted kids may have trouble with this, there are also plenty of them who are able to figure out which answer someone expects just as quickly as any bright child. Lots of gifted kids have the bandwidth to quickly see which of the correct answers is appropriate in the situation. It might take a couple sessions to remind the child that they need to consider their audience, which it sounds like the OP is doing. I also like the tactic that another poster (dmmetler maybe?) has used. You remind the child that this is a __ grade book, and we are looking for the __ grade answer. I'm not saying no kids will do this. There are kids at every level who prefer debating the questions, preferably with an adult opponent, to answering the questions. I just wouldn't automatically assume a fast test taker is "merely" bright. I'd also try to avoid letting a child continually argue over answers once their concerns have been adressed just because that arguing fits into some "characteristic of giftedness." ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm going to disagree here and say that while some gifted kids may have trouble with this, there are also plenty of them who are able to figure out which answer someone expects just as quickly as any bright child. Lots of gifted kids have the bandwidth to quickly see which of the correct answers is appropriate in the situation. It might take a couple sessions to remind the child that they need to consider their audience, which it sounds like the OP is doing. I also like the tactic that another poster (dmmetler maybe?) has used. You remind the child that this is a __ grade book, and we are looking for the __ grade answer. I'm not saying no kids will do this. There are kids at every level who prefer debating the questions, preferably with an adult opponent, to answering the questions. I just wouldn't automatically assume a fast test taker is "merely" bright. I'd also try to avoid letting a child continually argue over answers once their concerns have been adressed just because that arguing fits into some "characteristic of giftedness." ;) My dd is obviously gifted, and she can take tests. My oldest ds is also gifted (we had him professionally evaluated, because he was driving me NUTS), and struggles with tests. My younger son...as long as he stops long enough to READ the directions, tests well. My 6yo gets to take her first tests this year, so I guess we'll see. When it comes to arguing with me...hehehe, they haven't yet reached the stage they can beat me in a debate...they are still in awe of my debate prowess. However, my oldest is now 13, so my time is growing short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 For my DD, it's situational. Put her in a room with me (or a receptive adult), and give her an assignment where B and C are both partially correct, but neither is the complete answer, and she'll debate for an hour. Put her in a group standardized test situation where they're not allowed to talk, and she's perfectly capable of finding those "3rd grade answers" quite quickly, with no apparent stress-and then will rail in the car the entire trip home about how dumb the test is. That's one reason why I send her to a group administration for yearly testing instead of doing it myself. So if you saw her taking a group test, you'd probably assume she's "bright"-but not necessarily gifted. Give her an OPEN-ENDED test, given 1-1, and it's quickly very obvious that she's "gifted". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm going to disagree here and say that while some gifted kids may have trouble with this, there are also plenty of them who are able to figure out which answer someone expects just as quickly as any bright child. Lots of gifted kids have the bandwidth to quickly see which of the correct answers is appropriate in the situation. It might take a couple sessions to remind the child that they need to consider their audience, which it sounds like the OP is doing. I also like the tactic that another poster (dmmetler maybe?) has used. You remind the child that this is a __ grade book, and we are looking for the __ grade answer. I'm not saying no kids will do this. There are kids at every level who prefer debating the questions, preferably with an adult opponent, to answering the questions. I just wouldn't automatically assume a fast test taker is "merely" bright. I'd also try to avoid letting a child continually argue over answers once their concerns have been adressed just because that arguing fits into some "characteristic of giftedness." ;) It's not necessarily the speed that's the distinguisher, but rather that the merely bright child doesn't pick up on the alternate answers in the first place. They just see the one that the test designer intended while the gifted kid sees that plus the out-of-the-box ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Like last night, when ds did all the exercises to his AoPS lesson in his head, correctly, instead of writing them out properly? while continually making little squeaking noises like a small animal so as to drive his siblings to yelling? I could definitely imagine my dd doing the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It's not necessarily the speed that's the distinguisher, but rather that the merely bright child doesn't pick up on the alternate answers in the first place. They just see the one that the test designer intended while the gifted kid sees that plus the out-of-the-box ones. And it will drive them nuts trying to decide which to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Spelling "antennae" correctly, but then writing "fore wengs" on her butterfly diagram. And then the DRAMA that happens when I gently remind her that e rarely appears befor ng. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allearia Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 My 7yo is finishing up Beast Academy 3a, and there was a problem where the perimeter of a triangle is four, so if you join together 4 triangles what will be the perimeter of the whole thing? Instead of using their strategy, he first figured out that each side was 1 1/3 long, so he did (2 x 1 1/3) + (2 x 2 2/3). He was going along great but saying that it was really unfair and he was upset that I had to help because he hadn't learned how to multiply fractions yet. After I explained how to do that problem with fractions, he wanted to do the other similar problems with fractions, even though I showed him the strategy the book was trying to explain. So we had to do them each both ways. He probably wouldn't get such a tricky problem on a standardized test but I do wonder how long he would insist on going about something a different way than expected. I can't count the times I was trying to explain to him why his answer was wrong when I realized he was right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I can't count the times I was trying to explain to him why his answer was wrong when I realized he was right.... My "mathy" DS is like this. He'll intuitively come up with an answer and I have to tell him, "maybe, but I'm not there yet" as I go through the problem in a linear fashion. 95% of the time he's got the correct answer, but I'm a sequential thinker and can't tell what the correct answer is to a multi-part problem in a "gestalt" fashion like he apparently can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 My "mathy" DS is like this. He'll intuitively come up with an answer and I have to tell him, "maybe, but I'm not there yet" as I go through the problem in a linear fashion. 95% of the time he's got the correct answer, but I'm a sequential thinker and can't tell what the correct answer is to a multi-part problem in a "gestalt" fashion like he apparently can. Boy can I identify with this! I typically just say "you're probably right, but I have to check it" and then go through it my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Boy can I identify with this! I typically just say "you're probably right, but I have to check it" and then go through it my way. I am so glad I am not alone.... I don't let my kid see it, but sometimes, I feel like I am an idiot because he can look at a question and spit out the answer and I end up having to write out the entire question step by step or check the solution manual to see that yes, he did have the right answer. Makes me nervous that he'll figure out before he's a teen that his momma ain't as smart as he is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEK Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I had one of those moments just this morning and was getting on to share, basic subtraction and negative numbers sigh! The book asks if you can take 10 away from 5 and dd5's answer -5, not no like the book wants but negative 5, sigh. I let her do all the "impossible" subtraction questions with negative numbers as that makes more sense to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 My ds5 seems to think 6-11=-5 is easier than 11-6=5. Not sure if this is a sign of giftedness or he is just being ornery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitascool Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 We had a similar math conversation in the car today that proves my ds is deffinately smarter then I am when it comes to math. My DD5: "Mommy what is 1+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9?" Me: "Umm, I dont.." DS8: "That's 46. Right mommy?" Me: "Oh, look at those pretty Christmas lights guys." :gnorsi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I hear ya! Honestly I think that one way to distingush between the merely bright and the truly gifted is that bright kids often finish standardized tests faster. The bright kid can quickly find the answer that the test designer intends, while the gifted kid can see multiple "right" answers and has to sit there trying to figure out which one the test designer wants. Part of the giftedness is often creativity and while out-of-the-box thinking is useful in many situations, standardized testing isn't one of them. Wow, this so describes my ds12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunriseiz Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 We had a similar math conversation in the car today that proves my ds is deffinately smarter then I am when it comes to math. My DD5: "Mommy what is 1+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9?" Me: "Umm, I dont.." DS8: "That's 46. Right mommy?" Me: "Oh, look at those pretty Christmas lights guys." :gnorsi: LOL! Love this! By the way, you are a quick thinker. I am usually stuck with "Ummmmmm"! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeani Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 So glad to hear that other gifted kids are incessant noisemakers... This whole post makes me feel better. I need to hang out here a lot more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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