please no debate - chicken pox

[razorbackmama]

We do not get the chicken pox vaccine because of ethical concerns (among others). However, we want our kids to develop the immunity to it while they are young, since the disease is harder on adults. I just found out that a friend of mine has shingles and is therefore contagious. What is the best way to expose my kids? We actually are leaving in a couple days to go out of town, so it's not like we have time to just go over and hang out with her for days on end. I know how the germs are spread from a kid with chicken pox, but what about shingles...is it spread the same way?

[VaKim]

Actually, it is only people who have had chicken pox that get shingles.

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/shingles-cause

[SonshineLearner]

Getting Chicken Pox from Shingles

 

I had my children get chicken pox, too, and the vaccine can be contagious, too. BUT, I would look at who you're gonna be around... and how long. Just a thought. Either way (shot or being exposed) you have a risk of passing it along. My daughter took 21 days to get it (broke out on the last so called "possible day") and my son was 21 days out from her.... (I was still nursing and I think it just made it so his body was fighting it off...) So, 42 days from exposure I started dealing with my son...

There are many things to do while they have it, btw, and Oatmeal baths were horrible for my kids. I did keep them lubed up with certain oil mixes while they had the chicken pox and during healing.... and I ended up having to give him an antiviral which FINALLY let him get over the chx pox. His actually turned into a secondary infection...

[Perry]

Shingles cannot be passed from one person to another. However, the virus that causes shingles, the varicella zoster virus, can be spread from a person with active shingles to a person who has never had chickenpox. In such cases, the person exposed to the virus might develop chickenpox, but they would not develop shingles. The virus is spread through direct contact with fluid from the rash blisters, not through sneezing, coughing or casual contact.

A person with shingles can spread the virus when the rash is in the blister-phase. A person is not infectious before blisters appear. Once the rash has developed crusts, the person is no longer contagious.

Shingles is less contagious than chickenpox and the risk of a person with shingles spreading the virus is low if the rash is covered.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/about/transmission.html

.

Not that I'm recommending it...

Edited November 6, 2012 by Perry

[Mommyof4ks]

The kids would actually have to touch the shingles spots in order to get it. I would not expose them if you have plans for the next 6 weeks or so though, because your kids will be contagious prior to infection and then while they have CP. It would ruin plans for Thanksgiving and Christmas, and that would be hard for me to do. CP is very dangerous for immune compromised people who cannot ge the vaccine.

[Elizabeth in MN]

My dd got the Chicken Pox from my Mom who had Shingles.

 

If you're going out-of-town i would *NOT* expose the children to the CP. They will be passing it around before they have a break out.

[Bassoonaroo]

My dd got the Chicken Pox from my Mom who had Shingles.

 

If you're going out-of-town i would *NOT* expose the children to the CP. They will be passing it around before they have a break out.

\

 

Yup, if you're going to do this, please keep them home so that they are not passing it to other airline passengers, churchgoers, etc. They will be contagious before they break out, before you know if it "took." They can spread the disease to an adult who never got it, to a baby too young for immunizations, etc. It can be quite the serious disease to someone very old, very young, or otherwise not so healthy. We need to do what we can to protect those folks.

 

I won't flame your decision, but since not everyone can easily cope with CP, please keep them at home through the incubation period. No church, scouts, travel, etc. Yes, it's "out in the community" but since you KNOW that there is a good chance that they'll come down with it, consider the incubation time a time to isolate your family (except those who already had it).

 

So, look up the incubation period and find out the contagious period.

 

Thanks!

[razorbackmama]

We are leaving to go out of town day after tomorrow but will be back in a week. After that we have absolutely no plans for Thanksgiving or Christmas.:D

 

I also found out after I posted my OP that 2 of her daughters haven't had chicken pox yet. So maybe they'll catch it from her and mine can catch it from them. That would certainly work out better timing wise because I really don't know that I have time to get together with her before we leave.:tongue_smilie:

 

But thanks for the info.! It sounds like varicella is spread differently depending on whether it's shingles or chicken pox, and that's exactly what I was needing to know!

[SonshineLearner]

The funny thing is that when you have your vaccine, you're not told to not be around people!! That's exactly how my son and daughter got the chicken pox....

[SonshineLearner]

Razor....

I just saw that you have a baby... How old?? You really don't want a baby before at least a year getting the chx pox....

[TranquilMind]

My dd got the Chicken Pox from my Mom who had Shingles.

 

If you're going out-of-town i would *NOT* expose the children to the CP. They will be passing it around before they have a break out.

 

Right. Do NOT do this unless you are just planning to be home and not around people for the next several weeks. It is a 2-3 week incubation period.

[TranquilMind]

The funny thing is that when you have your vaccine, you're not told to not be around people!! That's exactly how my son and daughter got the chicken pox....

 

Yeah, and absolutely nobody abides by that.

 

That's how my kids got it too - from a newly vaccinated kid.

[razorbackmama]

Razor....

I just saw that you have a baby... How old?? You really don't want a baby before at least a year getting the chx pox....

She is a year old.

[Mom in High Heels]

My poor dad has shingles right now. He's had them for weeks and is one miserable human being. You have to have had chicken pox to get shingles and shingles aren't contagious.

 

My mom and I are actually immune to chicken pox. We have no idea how or why. Neither of us have ever had them, despite numerous (unintentional) exposures. My mom was the only one out of 10 siblings who did not get them as a child. I did not get the vaccine as a child. I'm allergic to pretty much everything on the planet (and I'm not kidding), so of course I'd be immune to something there is a vaccine for. :glare:

[Matryoshka]

My mom and I are actually immune to chicken pox. We have no idea how or why. Neither of us have ever had them, despite numerous (unintentional) exposures. My mom was the only one out of 10 siblings who did not get them as a child. I did not get the vaccine as a child. I'm allergic to pretty much everything on the planet (and I'm not kidding), so of course I'd be immune to something there is a vaccine for. :glare:

 

You were exposed, you got an asymptomatic case, built anitbodies, and are immune. Same thing happened to my mother. I finally made her have her titers checked to make double-sure when my kids got them (she'd been put in the same room with her brother when he had them, brother and I had them, and she was a kindy teacher with gobs of kids who had them, but never had a case she knew of). Somewhere along the way she got a subclinical case and she's immune.

[Matryoshka]

. You have to have had chicken pox to get shingles and shingles aren't contagious.

 

Shingles aren't contagious to anyone who's already had chicken pox, nor are they contagious as shingles. But the virus is contagious, and anyone who has not had chicken pox can catch chicken pox from someone with shingles.

[razorbackmama]

My poor dad has shingles right now. He's had them for weeks and is one miserable human being. You have to have had chicken pox to get shingles and shingles aren't contagious.

 

Has your dad gotten the antiviral shot? My mom had shingles but was able to lessen the severity with an antiviral. She was so thankful for it.

 

I know that my kids can't catch shingles, but they CAN catch chicken pox from someone with shingles.

[mumto2]

I got chicken pox from someone with shingles. No huge contact I just sat by him at school. So maybe I corrected his papers? I was the only case in a big school district (they checked) so definately from him.

[SonshineLearner]

Has your dad gotten the antiviral shot? My mom had shingles but was able to lessen the severity with an antiviral. She was so thankful for it.

 

I know that my kids can't catch shingles, but they CAN catch chicken pox from someone with shingles.

 

I believe you can take pills, too! You can also think through how you felt before you came down with shingles. There are signs, at least sometimes. IF you get the antiviral before they go full course, it's much better to no problems at all. Seriously, get a DR who is versed in how to treat Shingles... :( I do have some experience from family members... etc... about this... :(

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm having a hard time finding CP for my 3 yr old. Older two had it before he was born.

 

Good luck. If they get it don't forget to buy Aveeno Anti-Itch Lotion It says chicken pox on the bottle. Works great.

[razorbackmama]

Good luck. If they get it don't forget to buy Aveeno Anti-Itch Lotion It says chicken pox on the bottle. Works great.

Thanks! When I had it as a kid, I think my mom attempted just calamine lotion or something. What a joke LOL.

[Mrs Mungo]

We do not get the chicken pox vaccine because of ethical concerns (among others). However, we want our kids to develop the immunity to it while they are young, since the disease is harder on adults. I just found out that a friend of mine has shingles and is therefore contagious. What is the best way to expose my kids? We actually are leaving in a couple days to go out of town, so it's not like we have time to just go over and hang out with her for days on end. I know how the germs are spread from a kid with chicken pox, but what about shingles...is it spread the same way?

 

NOT okay to expose the kids to CP and then travel. You need to stay home, if you decide to do it. Otherwise, you are putting at kids (and adults, like my baby sister with cancer and going through chemo) with immune issues at risk of severe illness.

[justLisa]

NOT okay to expose the kids to CP and then travel. You need to stay home, if you decide to do it. Otherwise, you are putting at kids (and adults, like my baby sister with cancer and going through chemo) with immune issues at risk of severe illness.

 

Holy moly THIS.

 

I cannot tell you how angry my mother was when I was 13, and slept over a family's house from church. She did not tell her that her two kids were JUST exposed to the pox. We were leaving in a couple weeks. I ended up having the most giant, mutant looking pox all over AND had to take a family trip to see more family in Cal. I cried.

[Lisbeth]

Right. Do NOT do this unless you are just planning to be home and not around people for the next several weeks. It is a 2-3 week incubation period.

 

This. :glare: It's horribly irresponsible to do otherwise.

[razorbackmama]

I talked to my friend. We won't be getting together prior to our trip (which is good; I truly have no time). So the only way my kids will get it is if her kids get it and mine get it from them. So have no fear.

[razorbackmama]

Thank you to those of you who provided information without debate, like I requested. It was exactly what I needed to know.:001_smile:

[Miss Marple]

My experience with CP: One child came down with it after attending a preschool program. At that point I bathed all the boys together. They did EVERYTHING together. I worked hard to bring about a good exposure. But the next one came down with CP 2 weeks later, then 2 weeks after that the 3rd, then 2 weeks later, the last one. So...I tried to be efficient :) but the CP still took 8 weeks out of my life. It just doesn't always work out like we plan :)

[razorbackmama]

My experience with CP: One child came down with it after attending a preschool program. At that point I bathed all the boys together. They did EVERYTHING together. I worked hard to bring about a good exposure. But the next one came down with CP 2 weeks later, then 2 weeks after that the 3rd, then 2 weeks later, the last one. So...I tried to be efficient :) but the CP still took 8 weeks out of my life. It just doesn't always work out like we plan :)

Oh yeah, I'm not expecting it to be over in one fell swoop. (To be honest, I'm fine with that because I'm so tired of all the running around in our life!;) ) I just am wanting my olders to get it before they are much older. We've been exposed twice in the past with nothing. One family came from Canada to visit us, and within a day of leaving our house (on their way home!), broke out in spots. I thought for SURE we'd get it that time...nope!

[Catwoman]

Thank you to those of you who provided information without debate, like I requested. It was exactly what I needed to know.:001_smile:

 

I really, really, really had to struggle not to post, but somehow I managed to follow the NO DEBATE rule! :tongue_smilie:

[KidsHappen]

Actually, it is only people who have had chicken pox that get shingles.

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/shingles-cause

 

I think that you misread that:

 

 

 

Exposure to shingles will not cause you to get shingles. But if you have not had chickenpox and have not gotten the chickenpox vaccine,

you can

get chickenpox if you are exposed to shingles. Someone with shingles can expose you to chickenpox if you come into contact with the fluid in the shingles blisters. If you cover the shingles sores with a type of dressing that absorbs fluid and protects the sores, you can help prevent the spread of the virus to other people.

 

 

My 16 year old recently had shingles and my 13 years hasn't had CP yet so there were serious discussions on how to handle this situation. Shingles are not terribly contagious, you have to have direct contact with the rash and fluid from shingles to get CP.

[razorbackmama]

I really, really, really had to struggle not to post, but somehow I managed to follow the NO DEBATE rule! :tongue_smilie:

Thank you.:001_smile:

 

The varicella immunization is not going to happen here unless they change the way they manufacture it, so even though some (including a PA at our pediatrician's office) feel we are being "irresponsible" by purposefully exposing our children to it, we disagree because we know that the older they get without having had it, the more dangerous it is if they DO get it.

[VaKim]

I think that you misread that:

 

 

 

Exposure to shingles will not cause you to get shingles. But if you have not had chickenpox and have not gotten the chickenpox vaccine,

you can

get chickenpox if you are exposed to shingles. Someone with shingles can expose you to chickenpox if you come into contact with the fluid in the shingles blisters. If you cover the shingles sores with a type of dressing that absorbs fluid and protects the sores, you can help prevent the spread of the virus to other people.

 

 

My 16 year old recently had shingles and my 13 years hasn't had CP yet so there were serious discussions on how to handle this situation. Shingles are not terribly contagious, you have to have direct contact with the rash and fluid from shingles to get CP.

 

Duh! I knew that. (Where's that smiley smacking himself in the head?) I was thinking of the fact that having chicken pox as a child does not prevent you from having shingles as an adult. My brain works inside out these days. Sorry about that.

[kroe1]

I agree with the others that if you have the time to quarantine your household for several months, then your plan isn't a bad one. I know my parents and grandparents did that.

 

But another option, because of the herd immunity from those who do vaccinate, is not to purposely expose your children. Thankfully, because of all the vaccinations, your kiddos are not at a huge risk for ever contracting chicken pox.

 

If people quit vaccinating, then obviously, you would have made a poor choice as herd immunity will be gone.

 

By the way, we do vaccinate at our house because I've seen too many people with chronic pain after a case of shingles. That scares me worse than the actual illness or the shot. :001_huh:

 

Enjoy your vacation.

[PentecostalMom]

Actually, it is only people who have had chicken pox that get shingles.

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/shingles-cause

 

My stepmom has been in eldercare nursing for 44 years. Shingles is a beast.

[Matryoshka]

But another option, because of the herd immunity from those who do vaccinate, is not to purposely expose your children. Thankfully, because of all the vaccinations, your kiddos are not at a huge risk for ever contracting chicken pox.

 

Well, since the vaccine is known to wear off and for some people not to be effective in preventing a case even a short time after getting it, and because it's a live vaccine and people who are recently vaccinated can be contagious, and because you can still get shingles after being vaccinated (because, again, it's a live vaccine), and people with shingles can transmit chicken pox, no, I do not believe that herd immunity and vaccination work in this case like they would for other vaxes and diseases.

 

If we were a generation or so into the vaccine and it had a good track record of lifelong immunity and preventing shingles, I'd revise my opinion. But since this vax has come out, the opposite has been true - lots of vaxed people getting cp anyway, finding they needed repeated boosters to maintain immunity, vaxed people getting shingles as well.

[razorbackmama]

Enjoy your vacation.

Oh, we are going to visit my in-laws. It is most certainly NOT a vacation.:lol:

 

Well, since the vaccine is known to wear off and for some people not to be effective in preventing a case even a short time after getting it, and because it's a live vaccine and people who are recently vaccinated can be contagious, and because you can still get shingles after being vaccinated (because, again, it's a live vaccine), and people with shingles can transmit chicken pox, no, I do not believe that herd immunity and vaccination work in this case like they would for other vaxes and diseases.

 

If we were a generation or so into the vaccine and it had a good track record of lifelong immunity and preventing shingles, I'd revise my opinion. But since this vax has come out, the opposite has been true - lots of vaxed people getting cp anyway, finding they needed repeated boosters to maintain immunity, vaxed people getting shingles as well.

Yes, this.

[TranquilMind]

Minniewannabe: I agree with the others that if you have the time to quarantine your household for several months, then your plan isn't a bad one.

 

On the contrary, it will not be several months. It will be several weeks.

 

But another option, because of the herd immunity from those who do vaccinate, is not to purposely expose your children. Thankfully, because of all the vaccinations, your kiddos are not at a huge risk for ever contracting chicken pox.

 

 

Except when the kid is vaccinated every few years and shed onto others, who are now older and weren't exposed as children. This is more dangerous. This vaccine is not very effective.

 

As I and several others mentioned, our kids got chicken pox from kids who had just been vaccinated. The chicken pox vaccine is a LIVE vaccine.

 

If people quit vaccinating, then obviously, you would have made a poor choice as herd immunity will be gone.

 

 

Again, on the contrary, they would have the real immunity not the temporary vaccine immunity that my generation has. So you have to pick your risks, actually, because they exist no matter your choice on this.

[SebastianCat]

My experience with CP: One child came down with it after attending a preschool program. At that point I bathed all the boys together. They did EVERYTHING together. I worked hard to bring about a good exposure. But the next one came down with CP 2 weeks later, then 2 weeks after that the 3rd, then 2 weeks later, the last one. So...I tried to be efficient :) but the CP still took 8 weeks out of my life. It just doesn't always work out like we plan :)

 

My experience with CP: My sister had it when she was 3 or 4, so I would have been 8 or 9 at the time. We had "chickenpox parties" to expose the other kids in the neighborhood, and several friends got it from my sister. My brother and I did NOT get it, despite being in close contact with my sister. The pediatrician told my mom that we probably had very mild cases, one or two pox in the scalp that went undetected, and not to worry about it.

 

Fast forward several years. I got CP when I was 14 from an unknown exposure, then gave it to my brother, who was 12 at the time. It was HORRIBLE. I was covered, literally head to toe, inside and out, with pox. Inside my eyes, down my throat, in all sorts of unmentionable places. Every inch of my face was covered. I was miserable, feverish, and of all things to happen, AF showed up for her monthly visit during all of it.

 

Just wanted to warn you, since you have teenagers. CP can be just as bad for a teen as it is for an adult, and if your 12 year old DD has begun her cycles, it will likely occur during the time she has pox and won't be pleasant. And it's possible that even with heavy exposure, some of your kids might not get it.

[razorbackmama]

It really is awful! My mother had it.

 

They have a vaccine for it now. I think I'd want it because really shingles is hell.

My mom had it too. It was on her face and even got in her eye.:001_huh: She was able to get an antiviral shot to lessen the severity of it. She was so thankful for it!

 

Just wanted to warn you, since you have teenagers. CP can be just as bad for a teen as it is for an adult, and if your 12 year old DD has begun her cycles, it will likely occur during the time she has pox and won't be pleasant. And it's possible that even with heavy exposure, some of your kids might not get it.

No, she hasn't started her cycles, and yes, I'm aware that it could be worse for my teens, and yes, I'm aware that they might not get it. As I shared, they've already been exposed twice. It is because of my teens that I hope they get it as soon as possible.

[Catwoman]

Just wanted to warn you, since you have teenagers. CP can be just as bad for a teen as it is for an adult, and if your 12 year old DD has begun her cycles, it will likely occur during the time she has pox and won't be pleasant. And it's possible that even with heavy exposure, some of your kids might not get it.

 

Just to remind everyone... there are effective medications for chicken pox, as long as you catch it within the first day or two -- and most people will know that they or their kids have chicken pox because of the spots.

 

I am only mentioning this because very recently, a woman argued me about it, and swore up and down that there was nothing you could take for chicken pox... even after I told her about the Zovirax I took when I got it at 35 years old. :rolleyes:

 

There are also medications to treat shingles.

[scrappyhappymama]

My stepmom has been in eldercare nursing for 44 years. Shingles is a beast.

 

It is! And now many otherwise healthy adults are suffering Shingles outbreaks too. Two friends of mine have had Shingles in their EYE, which was dreadful. In fact, I think that the increase in Shingles cases is the biggest unintended negative consequence of the chicken pox vaccine. Fewer children have chicken pox, so adults who had cp as children have fewer opportunities to be exposed and renew their immunity, leaving them vulnerable to a reactivation of the virus: Shingles.

 

Assuming we were free to quarantine for two months, I'd be inclined to expose my children to a friend with Shingles if the opportunity arose. We've tried chicken pox parties several times to no avail. But on multiple occasions, children or grandchildren of friends with Shingles have come down with chicken pox. In half those cases, the children had been vaccinated, but still caught chicken pox from the relative with Shingles. So there is a very good chance that your friend's children will contract chicken pox.

[Kirch]

On the contrary, it will not be several months. It will be several weeks.

 

The OP has 8 children, and the incubation period for CP is 3 weeks. If they're exposed, they'll need to stay home for at least 3 weeks before they can be sure they're not contagious. If they do come down with them, and their cases aren't all 100% concurrent, it seriously could stretch out to months rather than weeks for her family.

[kroe1]

Sorry, I didn't go back and quote others. Nonetheless, there is herd immunity from the varicella vaccinations, especially in those less than 1 year old (who are too young for the vaccine) and older adults. The herd immunity to infants is somewhere around 90%.

 

The CDC has some data here:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5604a1.htm

 

But there is a ton of data available at other locations on the CDC site as well as a Stanford study.

 

What is frustrating to many, is that the varicella vaccine is not 100% effective. Nonetheless, the rate of chicken pox was about 15 people per 1000 per year prior to the vaccination. It's now about 75% less. That's why it's so hard to find those chicken pox parties nowadays. Those of us growing up in the sixties remember a time when an entire classroom came down with it almost simultaneously. Now, those who do come down with it aren't nearly as sick as those of the prevaccination era.

 

My own DD had chicken pox when she was about 7. But, because she had been vaccinated, the diagnosis was difficult to make. She had a fever and 3 little vesicles on her body. That was it. I remember when I had it myself there were probably thousands of vesicles, lots of crying from itching, oatmeal baths, Calamine lotion, and out of school for a couple of weeks. When my sister got them at age 14, the vesicles completely covered every inch of her body and down her throat. When my DS32 had chicken pox at age 2, he had vesicles even in his eyes. It was disgusting. Luckily, all of us recovered with only scars. No one has had shingles yet.

 

:)

[Laura Corin]

Just so you know: your baby may get chicken pox but might not get the immunity because of being so young. Calvin had chicken pox when he was five and passed it to Hobbes who was eighteen months. They were both pretty miserable with it, but (I was told by his doctor) wouldn't necessary develop proper immunity.

 

Laura

[razorbackmama]

 

Just so you know: your baby may get chicken pox but might not get the immunity because of being so young. Calvin had chicken pox when he was five and passed it to Hobbes who was eighteen months. They were both pretty miserable with it, but (I was told by his doctor) wouldn't necessary develop proper immunity.

At this point I am OK with that. I'm mostly concerned about my older children.

[Laurie4b]

Thank you.:001_smile:

 

The varicella immunization is not going to happen here unless they change the way they manufacture it, so even though some (including a PA at our pediatrician's office) feel we are being "irresponsible" by purposefully exposing our children to it, we disagree because we know that the older they get without having had it, the more dangerous it is if they DO get it.

 

What is it about the way it's manufactured that is an ethical concern? I've never heard of this.

[TranquilMind]

The OP has 8 children, and the incubation period for CP is 3 weeks. If they're exposed, they'll need to stay home for at least 3 weeks before they can be sure they're not contagious. If they do come down with them, and their cases aren't all 100% concurrent, it seriously could stretch out to months rather than weeks for her family.

 

Oops. Excuse me. Missed the 8 kids part in connection with this, so you are right. My apologies. It could be a long haul!

[razorbackmama]

 

What is it about the way it's manufactured that is an ethical concern? I've never heard of this.

The vaccine is cultured in cells that have been reproduced from the cells of an aborted baby.