Are your kids... grandiose?

[Rivka]

(This may not even be an accelerated issue, but it feels like it is, so I thought I'd ask over here.)

 

Alex does not struggle with low self-esteem or narrow ambitions. Last week she wrote a little play - I think it's about three typed pages. She tossed it off very quickly, with no editing. It's awesome in a "oh my gosh, how adorable, she's seven" kind of way. (Read it here.) I typed it for her and printed it out and thought that would be the end of it.

 

Well, now she wants to start a drama club for the express purpose of staging her play. She wants to act and also be the teacher/director. It has a large cast, so she wants me to put a call out for participants on my homeschooling mailing lists. She plans to rope in all the kids in her Irish dance class, most of whom she barely knows and none of whom have ever done anything with us outside of class. She wants to enlist teenagers to play the adult roles - to be directed by her, a seven-year-old. She wants to hold ten performances "in case anyone can't come to one." Who is going to come to these performances? Well, we can put up signs all over town.

 

I am torn between "it would be wrong to squash her dreams" and "oh heck no, she is not doing any of that." She wants to have an unbelievable amount of other people's time and energy to be focused on her production, which, to be honest, is very slight. It is not going to be worth that kind of time and energy in someone else's eyes. She's just dreaming way too big for the quality of her work. And yet what kind of parent would come right out and tell her that?

 

What would be ideal is if she had a few friends who also wanted to write plays. Then they could be actors for each other and we could have a little performance of all the plays together, and the families could be an appreciative and nonjudgmental audience, and the spotlight would be shared. (Maybe that's the part of this that makes it an acceleration issue. She just doesn't have friends who have written plays and who burn to see them staged.)

 

I have been suggesting, as diplomatically as possible, that her plans are rather complicated, and that it would probably be a better idea to stage her play as a puppet show. She is dubious. (Although, when she thinks about it, we could construct a big puppet theater out of wood and have multiple performances, advertised across town, etc....)

 

I also discovered that a local professional theater runs a Young Playwright's Festival in which the winners (two each for elementary school, middle school, and high school) get to workshop their plays with professional actors and directors and have a public performance of a reading. I suggested that we submit her play and she was excited. Again, though, she feels as if her first draft (conceived and dictated in less than an hour) is perfect and the best thing ever written.

 

Yikes, this has become a novel. Here are my questions: are your kids grandiose? Do they have huge plans that are too outsized for reality? Do they overvalue their own work? How do you handle all of that, and how should I handle Alex's ridiculous plans for her play?

[justLisa]

Meet my DS. I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

I try to support things he wants to do until the point where I do not think it is worth it at all. He has come up with some interesting ideas. Most of them have to do with building something. Fortunately he gets a new epic idea before turning said project in to anything serious :glare: :lol:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Yes, yes, yes. The larger-than-life daily existence of a small child with a huge brain...it is delightful and annoying at the same time!

 

I've always handled this by telling my child that he can do anything in the world that he can manage to do himself. That has worked out, whether he was 5 or 15. He has managed to accomplish some amazing things, but the truly unreasonable or very dangerous notions are always dropped due to logistical problems. He accepts logistical limitations poorly, but at least they aren't dream-squashers like I am when I tell him no. (sarcasm)

 

If Alex can make all of the arrangements by herself with no more than a bit of advice from you (and that only if absolutely necessary), there's no reason why she shouldn't stage a play. You could help her make a to-do list if she's not sure how to get started.

 

Place (home? a neighbor's barn? church community room? permission obtained from necessary people by Alex. Mommy might help with a phone script or advice in writing a letter.)

 

Actors (invited/persuaded by Alex, not Mommy)

 

Costumes (scavenged, sewn, or hired by Alex)

 

Practice times (coordinated by Alex, based on availability of actors and supporting adults/drivers)

 

Tickets (reasonable price researched and tickets printed by Alex)

 

Refreshments (prepared or hired by Alex, a good chance to make a deal with Mommy, btw)

 

Keeping in mind the whole time: How to pay for all of the above if she's not able to barter for it, and knowing how to recognize a stop sign at any point of the process.

 

It could be that when you lay out for her what is required, she'll be more amenable to the puppet show idea, or maybe she'll trim the cast and scenes to make use of the people within her own small circle who would be likely to play along. Or she might go for it and make magic.

 

OH! I just remembered why I'm encouraging you to let her try. I did this myself when I was seven or eight. :lol: I had forgotten about that; it was a play about a princess and a dragon (of course) and a girl named Kate. I got the whole neighborhood in on it and it was a blast.

[Barbara H]

Yes, that all sounds familiar. That was a tough age here. It isn't a perfect solution, but I'd suggest hitting a balance between gently suggesting more practical versions (like the puppet show) and drawing your boundaries about what is reasonable for you to do. Just by way of encouragement - here this was really a developmental thing. In time there was more realism, but fortunately the spirit and drive continued which are great.

 

Fortunately we were able to put together a widely mixed age homeschool theater co-op. Any chance something like that might be a possibility in your area? It didn't take very much to put together.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I just had a second look at the play.

 

You know, since there is some historical context there, she probably could find two or three venues for either a small play or a puppet show. They wouldn't be the local concert hall, but still.

 

My sons have performed at public libraries, the local elementary school, a private Christian school, in a folk music society, on stage at Old Settlers' festivals, and for senior citizens in retirement homes. They've mostly done musical numbers, but they've also done acting vignettes and dialogues.

 

People like to see talented kids perform, especially if the event is free. They don't really expect them to be Hollywood actors in the aforementioned public settings; if the children are alert, cheerful, rehearsed, and loud enough to hear, it's enough.

[kokotg]

That sounds like my almost seven year old. It's exhausting, isn't it? I LOVE his enthusiasm and his confidence, but....well, I need a break from it sometimes. At least until he's more independent about it.

 

ETA: what about a movie instead of a play? Then you could invite over some people and have a screening.

[SorrelZG]

Yes. I'm encouraged to learn I am not alone and hope to learn something from others here. I completely understand how it easily becomes a novel when trying to relate it. No one I know personally deals with these problems so I've long been at a loss.

[Dmmetler]

As far as grandiose schemes, I host a mythology group at my house. Their current plan? They want to reenact the Trojan War. The argument seems to be between stop-motion lego animation and actually acting it out. I figure it will be interesting to see what happens. The only thing more grandiose than ONE GT kid is a bunch of GT kids together!

 

 

I like the idea of putting the ball in her court. That's basically what I'm trying to do with the whole "Trojan epic".

[Lang Syne Boardie]

As far as grandiose schemes, I host a mythology group at my house. Their current plan? They want to reenact the Trojan War. The argument seems to be between stop-motion lego animation and actually acting it out. I figure it will be interesting to see what happens. The only thing more grandiose than ONE GT kid is a bunch of GT kids together!

 

 

I like the idea of putting the ball in her court. That's basically what I'm trying to do with the whole "Trojan epic".

 

:lol:

 

My son once made a video of a massive battle as part of a play that he wrote, directed, and produced for a church competition. The battle was not quite as big as the Trojan War, but of biblical proportions. He had two dozen kids and some movie-making computer programs, so he posed the kids in various stages of "mob" and just cut and pasted into scenes as necessary. He had lots of backgrounds and tricks of camera perspective to make it work. He also had access to a green screen.

 

Other than the battle scene, the other amazing effects were a chariot race, a ghost, a carefully-choreographed sword fight, and a transformation of a person into a ghoul of some kind.

 

I wish I could show you the video, but it was submitted to a contest and we never got it back. It was not professional quality (tons of mistakes and weird lighting) but we were pretty impressed, anyway! He really enjoyed that experience, and it led to some interesting connections to local filmmakers and editors who saw his work.

 

Edited to add: I told my son I was telling about this, and he said he'd be glad to chat/Skype/email with your kids about using stop animation and green screen in such productions. pm me if you are interested!

Edited November 2, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[justLisa]

I don't know if you read my bird house thread, but yeah my son is still working on the bird house. It's an epic bird mansion with indoor plumbing that will attract the rarest bird in the world in his mind. In reality it is a pile of wood in the basement. *sigh*

:lol:

 

He'll get there.

 

Plumbing would be nice you know, for a bird.

[Rivka]

I don't know if you read my bird house thread, but yeah my son is still working on the bird house. It's an epic bird mansion with indoor plumbing that will attract the rarest bird in the world in his mind. In reality it is a pile of wood in the basement. *sigh*

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I hope your son and my daughter never meet and hit it off, because the combination would be... epic.

[lamppost]

You might want to consider starting or joining a Destination Imagination team in your area. There are challenges to solve, and the solutions often need to include a skit or short play. Here's a list of this year's challenges: http://destinationimagination.org/challenge-program/challenge-previews

 

This is something where your DD could put on a production and have a built-in audience for it (at the regional competition in the spring) and would spare you the messy details of doing something like this all on your own. ;)

[higginszoo]

My oldest ds always seems to have a couple or few of his GT friends who are this way. He 'gets' them better than typical kids, but he's not really like that at all. Neither are either of my middle kids (though younger ds also seems to attract friends like this). My youngest is, to some extent. She's definitely very dramatic, and has recently started into some grand plans.

[momsuz123]

I actually felt a sense of relief after reading your OP. This is my 8 y/o dd, to a tee!! She is in the actualy play "Annie Jr" (shows next week). But at home she is the director and who guessed it, Annie, in her little friend theater group.

Everything she dreams up is huge. It is neat to see, but tiring too.

[FairProspects]

Mine too. Every building project must be huge, involve elaborate parts and pieces, and be worthy of display or Lego magazine. It is never simple.

[ocelotmom]

My gut reaction is that she's emulating you.

 

The playwriting/directing part, that is. Not grandiose ideas.

[Cosmos]

You might want to consider starting or joining a Destination Imagination team in your area. There are challenges to solve, and the solutions often need to include a skit or short play. Here's a list of this year's challenges: http://destinationimagination.org/challenge-program/challenge-previews

 

This is something where your DD could put on a production and have a built-in audience for it (at the regional competition in the spring) and would spare you the messy details of doing something like this all on your own. ;)

 

I was thinking of Destination Imagination too, although in a different way.

 

My ds was on a DI team last year, and we were rather taken aback at some of the plans the kids were coming up with at the beginning of the project. We're talking huge, outlandish efforts that we knew would never, ever, ever come to fruition.

 

Then the coach explained to us how DI works. The kids come up with the ideas, and the kids execute them. Period. There is no adult input allowed. Not even, "Are you sure that's a good idea, honey?" or raised eyebrows. She explained that what happened every single year is that the kids would come up with these 1000% ideas and then over time they would substitute and modify and chop and cut and finally come up with something a final product that was only a tiny fraction of their original idea but still truly would blow us away.

 

And that's exactly what happened. Somehow they weren't at all disappointed or discouraged. It's almost like they didn't even notice that their final product was NOTHING like what they had originally talked about. But it was real and finished and something to be incredibly proud of.

 

It was a real learning experience for him and for me.

 

So, with that experience behind me, what I would do in this situation is a lot of, "That sounds really interesting. How are you going to do that?"

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yikes, this has become a novel. Here are my questions: are your kids grandiose? Do they have huge plans that are too outsized for reality? Do they overvalue their own work? How do you handle all of that, and how should I handle Alex's ridiculous plans for her play?

 

First of all, that play is adorable!

 

Yes, DS9 and DD are grandiose. (DS6 is not. So far. "Done! Can I go play?" :lol:) They have huge, wonderful plans. I handle it by funding, supplying, assisting, oohing-and aaaahing, and trying really hard to give practical but supportive advice. For some reason, I bristle at the the word "overvalue" (probably scarring from having my own grand dreams undervalued as a child :D ;):tongue_smilie:). But I know what you mean and, yes, they do. :lol:

 

How would I handle the play? I would definitely submit it to the festival, because then the value of the work would be determined by an outside source. If it doesn't win, that will serve as an important lesson in humility from the real world. Knowing me, I would push for the puppet theater but that's probably because I really like your DD's vision of it. :tongue_smilie: (We have a PVC puppet theater draped with sheets but wood would be fantastic!)

 

I would tell her how much I love that she dreams so big. I would say that most people don't dream so big and I hope she does always! Then I would say that maybe it would be fun to seek out some like-minded kids who are also interested in dreaming big. If I lived in an area that could support it and had access to a mailing list of other like-minded homeschoolers, I would propose to DD that we put feelers out to see if anyone would be interested in forming a theater club. Or! Wait for it! A Homeschool Arts Club! I wouldn't just limit it to theater (live or puppet)! Why, we could have get weekly (or monthly) get-togethers and a once a month (or quarter) show of some kind...music and dance recitals, art shows (one each for painting, sculpture, etc.), craft shows... It would all culminate in a yearly talent show! Oh, the possibilities are endless!

 

I wonder where my kids got their grandiose gene. :D

 

I don't know if you read my bird house thread, but yeah my son is still working on the bird house. It's an epic bird mansion with indoor plumbing that will attract the rarest bird in the world in his mind. In reality it is a pile of wood in the basement. *sigh*

 

When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought, Wendy's DS is! :lol:

[Arcadia]

Here's a list of this year's challenges: http://destinationimagination.org/challenge-program/challenge-previews

 

Showed my boys the page and now they are working on their own technical challenge.

[La Condessa]

My oldest is only three, and she already has delusions of grandeur. She wants us to go to New York so that she can perform as the Sugar Plum Fairy in the Nutcracker for the New York City Ballet.:001_smile: She is convinced that she is the best ballerina in the world, despite never having been taught.

 

She also thinks that she is ready to move up to pre-team in gymnastics. (She is in the class before that and pretty good for a three-year-old, but nowhere near ready for pre-team. In reality she is one of the least adept in her class.)

[Wheres Toto]

Yes, my son is definitely like this. He is the smartest, most talented, most unbelievable boy in the world. He likes to make up games and of course, every other kid should just love to play his games, by his rules, in the way he wants, etc.

 

He doesn't need to take martial arts because he already knows how. He doesn't need to learn -anything- because he knows how to do it already, no matter what it is.

 

I'm kind of hoping he outgrows it at some point, it certainly isn't winning him any friends.

[AK_Mom4]

One of DD11's friends got a little video camera for Christmas (kind of like a Kodak Playshot but cheaper). This neat little device has opened WHOLE VISTAS of opportunities for drama, plays, and presentations. And oyu can download the movie and edit it on the computer.... very cool.

 

Just so you know.... Grandiose never goes away. Last year, DD18 wrote a play with her friend, applied for a grant, got the grant, and produced a 15 minute movie for a contest. She arm-twisted her two brothers (one home from college on break) to play all the bit parts and filmed it in three days of really hard work. She got costumes and equipment, everything. Oh, and it was all in German (a language she had studied only for a couple of years). The movie placed second in the contest.

 

So you just never know where an idea will end up.....

[Dmmetler]

Wow, are you talking about my son? :001_huh:

 

I asked him if he wanted piano lessons. No because he knows how to play piano already.

 

If he learns a bit of a programming language he is very quickly an "expert". He even asked DH if there is an opening at work. :lol:

 

The worst thing is that adults swoon over him. Seriously. They go on and on about how smart he is and this and that. Ugh. IT'S NOT HELPING!

 

I've found competitions are the best leavening against this-when DD gets into a competitive situation and discovers that she's NOT the best-that, in fact, compared to other similarly smart kids, she's probably about average, it really helps to knock down that ego a bit. That's one thing I love Mathletics for-pretty much every day she can look at the high score table and see dozens of people ahead of her, and she can go into live rounds and LOSE on a regular basis :).

[hm2009]

Let her continue with whatever she wants to do with minimal help. When I was in 3rd and my brother a year younger we found this teeny weeny marble bowl which looked like a baptismal bowl we see in churches. So we had this great dream for creating a grand cathedral.:tongue_smilie: My parents were always encouraging but they were both working and had no time. So we set out to build this grand cathedral....It ended up being a cardboard house with 3 rooms, tiny light bulbs, 1 ceiling fan(electric motor), a working horse carriage(wonderfully decorated) wheels made with salt dough and dried. We used 2 of mom's porcelain horses, broke one's leg, stuck it back with cello-tape.:001_huh: We also made a lot of kitchen dishes and cups with the salt dough. It was an great project, had lots of fun.

25 yrs later at odd times we remind ourselves about our grand cathedral project and have a great laugh.:lol:

 

So what I meant to say was:D it may not turn out to be some great work but she will certainly enjoy the process of learning and have lots of fun.:001_smile:

[Mrs.Mom]

Both of my sons are like this (6 and 9) but my little guy isn't quite as proactive. My 9 yo however - oh man. I hold him back a lot, and I feel awful about it ... but I just don't have the time/energy to run down his rabbit trails sometimes. That sounds awful, doesn't it?

 

I tend to agree with those on the thread that have said to help them materialize their own ideas. There is more learning that way, and it helps sift the dreams from the realities in their own heads and hearts. :)

[Storm Bay]

(This may not even be an accelerated issue, but it feels like it is, so I thought I'd ask over here.)

 

Alex does not struggle with low self-esteem or narrow ambitions. Last week she wrote a little play - I think it's about three typed pages. She tossed it off very quickly, with no editing. It's awesome in a "oh my gosh, how adorable, she's seven" kind of way. (Read it here.) I typed it for her and printed it out and thought that would be the end of it.

 

Well, now she wants to start a drama club for the express purpose of staging her play.

 

Yikes, this has become a novel. Here are my questions: are your kids grandiose? Do they have huge plans that are too outsized for reality? Do they overvalue their own work? How do you handle all of that, and how should I handle Alex's ridiculous plans for her play?

 

Yes, yes, yes. The larger-than-life daily existence of a small child with a huge brain...it is delightful and annoying at the same time!

 

.

 

That was me when I was little:blushing:. Of course, I think it's not uncommon to be that way when you're little.

 

What I would do is have her organize it herself with her friends or tell her to save it until she's older. Or if you are technical enough, have her act all the parts & put it together on a video or something & then put it on youtube for family & friends.

 

Lucille Ball used to write & stage things all the time growing up, and she ended up being successful :).

 

As for editing, I don't think I edited a poem until I was adult because I had some false idea that poetry came fully done & since I got good grades, didn't realize that even what I thought was excellent free verse when I wrote could be improved. I'm not sure if I edited scripts, but I did edit some things.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Karin

[Mommy22alyns]

:lol: Yes, Rebecca always has been. She is seriously set on the Olympics. I'm not even kidding. :001_huh:

[SorrelZG]

Well one thing he is not good at is sports. I mean anything that even resembles a sport, forget it. It's painful to even watch him try. I do have to say he is a pretty good sport about that fact though. He just keeps plugging along and doesn't seem to notice how awful he is.

 

 

:lol: Sounds like DS except DS does notice and it isn't pretty. :glare: Just another opportunity to work on character while teaching the boy how to kick, bounce and catch so he can interact with the other boys rather than going lone ranger at social gatherings. :tongue_smilie:

[Runningmom80]

Um, yes. He has started writing our family news paper, and wants to sell it door to door. He's also plotting some sort of tv show about Lego hero factory characters, and he wants me to film it and put it on YouTube.

[Katy]

If you wanted to invest the time in guiding her, this could be an amazing self-directed learning experience for her, but not by indulging her in the way she thinks she wants. You could explore economics, writing, literature, math, business, and more.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with sitting her down and (gently) telling her that although you love her enthusiasm, her play needs a lot of work before it's ready for that sort of investment (both in time and money) from adults. Nothing that she's discussing is free. If she wants to imagine and pretend to direct her play she certainly may, and you could probably organize some playdates with homeschooled friends who also have an interest in drama. However, if she's really interested in pursuing this like a grown up would you could help her learn what she needs to to really do this. Find a local community theater group or and understanding high school drama teacher and make visiting the theater part of your homeschool curriculum. Have her watch a play practice or several. Get her hands on a copy of a real full-length play. Have the director/teacher gently critique her work (while still being encouraging of the pursuit of writing).

 

If she loves all of this and wants to be a playwright, you can get her adult books on playwriting, and she can study this on her own time. You can probably get her books on plot and story and character development in the adult writing section of your local library. You can talk about all of the skills she will need to learn to be a professional playwright or screenwriter. You can have her read famous plays (Shakespeare, etc). You can discover there's not a huge market for playwrights and screenwriting is difficult to get a script developed that's amazing and to then sell it, but if she did she'd make a minimum of $100,000. You could turn this into an early home economics exercise and talk about business expenses, taxes, agent cuts, and how little money she'd be left with after all of this. You could talk about how she'd probably need to be an adult so she could move to LA and how expensive it is to live there. You could talk about college playwriting and screenwriting majors and even graduate school. You could talk about how adults have more life experience and understanding of literature and story so they tend to find it easier to make interesting observations about life that adults find entertaining in movies. You can teach her about nuance and subtext and many things that people don't typically understand until they are adults but which make watching good drama compelling. You could talk about how most scripts that get sold still don't get turned into movies, because movie studios are more interested in marketing than in story telling, and then you can explore the business and cultural ramifications of that (why male action protagonists sell more movie tickets internationally than female, and what percentage of business is international). You can have her learn to type and learn the very specific structure of typing plays and screenplays.

 

Chances are this is just a phase, and one visit to a theater would be enough to redirect her a little, or at least understand how much bigger her plans are than she imagined. OTOH, there have been cases of young people writing amazing movies, like Good Will Hunting.

 

I went through a phase when I was about 9 where I was obsessed with volcanoes. My mom thought I was going to be a geologist. I read every book I could get my hands on about them. It wasn't until I got my hands on a couple college geology textbooks that I finally quelled my curiousity. Or maybe I just got a year older and started developing more of an interest in boys and fashion and popularity than in anything academic. This grandiose phase will pass all too soon.

 

Edited because my grammar is worse than a 5th grader's.