I need a good answer for this

[PeacefulChaos]

So tonight my FIL said to me, 'Back when I was in high school, they had me read all these books like Moby Dick and stuff, and it hasn't made any difference in my life whatsoever. There's no point to it.' (NOTE: FIL is not familiar with my exact choices re: home education. Aka he doesn't know that's part of what we'll be doing. :tongue_smilie: )

I was like, 'Yes there is.'

Luckily the conversation didn't go much farther, because I couldn't put into words exactly WHY there is. I'm one of those people who gets so much running through my head at once with this stuff that I end up never finding a good answer for it.

BIL chimed in with 'Yeah, the point is that you read it just because everyone else has.' :rolleyes:

So. Tell me.

I need a good answer for WHY read the classics 'and stuff'. :)

[TraciWA]

Maybe just say it's always good to have a well rounded education and leave it at that. :001_smile:

[Embassy]

Aside from being great stories, they are great models of language. Models of vocabulary, sentence structure, and writing are directly delivered from gifted writers whether you are actually reading the book or listening to the book read aloud.

 

 

 

 

I had a family member say that you can't learn anything from a book.:001_huh:

[blakereese]

Have you read 'Classics in the Classroom' by Michael Clay Thompson? He has some really good thoughts on this, as well as some research of his own on classic words/vocabulary and other language benefits. It is definitely worth a read and would give you some good ammo for the ILs! :)

 

Sometimes, though, it can be best to pass the bean dip. :glare:

[PeacefulChaos]

Have you read 'Classics in the Classroom' by Michael Clay Thompson? He has some really good thoughts on this, as well as some research of his own on classic words/vocabulary and other language benefits. It is definitely worth a read and would give you some good ammo for the ILs! :)

 

Sometimes, though, it can be best to pass the bean dip. :glare:

 

I'll have to check that out!

I could pass the bean dip, but the ILs and I have a great relationship and I enjoy them... plus FIL is a choleric and I'm a choleric so if he were to say it again sometime, I would just LOVE to have some good things to say in response. :D I could just see it being fun. :lol:

[umsami]

Because... they are classics for a reason. They represent the best in literature over time. Reading good literature is in itself educational. It teaches you what good writing looks like. They teach vocabulary. They teach cultural references. The stories offer complex characters, moral lessons (usually), etc.

They feed the soul. They can take you on a journal to a different time, different culture, different world. They allow your imagination to develop as you picture what the characters might look like in your mind.

 

With really good books, you can gain something different each time you read them.

 

 

Know what I would do? Challenge him to read one of the books your kids are reading...and then have a family book club. He might discover a new appreciation for the books he scoffed at as a kid. :)

[myfunnybunch]

"Because everyone else has" isn't necessarily a bad argument unless it's the sole argument. Cultural literacy and a common framework of knowledge allows us to communicate efficiently and identify common themes in literature and life. Knowing what a speaker or writer means when they say things like, "I'll huff and I'll puff," :tongue_smilie: or "the White Whale," or "tilting at windmills," is important and adds to the richness of communication. Who do you want the "everyone else" with whom your children share knowledge to be, anyway? The folks who've read Moby Dick, or the folks who watch Snooki?

 

Or you can just tell him you want them to get into a good college. ;)

 

Cat

[Pegasus]

"Because everyone else has" isn't necessarily a bad argument unless it's the sole argument. ..Cultural literacy and a common framework of knowledge allows us to communicate efficiently and identify common themes in literature and life. Cat

 

:iagree: Cat nailed it!

[marbel]

Because... they are classics for a reason. They represent the best in literature over time. Reading good literature is in itself educational. It teaches you what good writing looks like. They teach vocabulary. They teach cultural references. The stories offer complex characters, moral lessons (usually), etc.

They feed the soul. They can take you on a journal to a different time, different culture, different world. They allow your imagination to develop as you picture what the characters might look like in your mind.

 

With really good books, you can gain something different each time you read them.

 

I agree with all this but I can see family members of my own not accepting this as a valid argument. My dad began his working life in a factory. He moved into the office in later years (middle management). Literature was never something he cared about. He would shake his head at most of these arguments, He gave his family a good life without ever reading any books like that, he would say. He was busy working hard and didn't have time for stuff like that. He learned life lessons like morality and such in church and that worked for him. What does he care what good writing looks like?

 

So I think some people simply can't be convinced. Or, perhaps for some people, good books simply have no value and never will.

 

Know what I would do? Challenge him to read one of the books your kids are reading...and then have a family book club. He might discover a new appreciation for the books he scoffed at as a kid. :)

 

I think that is a great idea.

 

It may not convince anyone, though. And speaking only from my own experience, depending on the person, it could be insulting to them. I think my dad would have been offended.

 

Of course OP's FIL may not be anything like my dad! ;)

[LaxMom]

"Because everyone else has" isn't necessarily a bad argument unless it's the sole argument. Cultural literacy and a common framework of knowledge allows us to communicate efficiently and identify common themes in literature and life. Knowing what a speaker or writer means when they say things like, "I'll huff and I'll puff," :tongue_smilie: or "the White Whale," or "tilting at windmills," is important and adds to the richness of communication. Who do you want the "everyone else" with whom your children share knowledge to be, anyway? The folks who've read Moby Dick, or the folks who watch Snooki?

 

Or you can just tell him you want them to get into a good college. ;)

 

Cat

I was thinking the same (in addition to the language arguments); to wit, you will not end up being the idiot who has to phone a friend to pick the (multiple choice) ending of "Hey diddle, diddle/ the cat and the ______" on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire.

[DawnM]

UGH! My husband would agree with your FIL.

 

Right now my kids are reading A LOT! My 9th grader is starting to analyze literature. Dh's response is, "Well, if the author were a better writer, you wouldn't have to spend so much time figuring out what he/she was trying to say!" :lol:

 

I have tried most of the arguments mentioned so far (I was an English teacher for heaven's sakes!) but he is an Accountant and doesn't care! He hated reading them in school and has no desire to read them now.

 

And to some degree he has a point. For his career, knowing who Austin, Cooper, or any other author is simply not necessary. He has an MA from a high ranking school and does just fine.

 

Dawn

[Chris in VA]

I agree with all this but I can see family members of my own not accepting this as a valid argument. My dad began his working life in a factory. He moved into the office in later years (middle management). Literature was never something he cared about. He would shake his head at most of these arguments, He gave his family a good life without ever reading any books like that, he would say. He was busy working hard and didn't have time for stuff like that. He learned life lessons like morality and such in church and that worked for him. What does he care what good writing looks like?

 

So I think some people simply can't be convinced. Or, perhaps for some people, good books simply have no value and never will.

 

 

 

I think that is a great idea.

 

It may not convince anyone, though. And speaking only from my own experience, depending on the person, it could be insulting to them. I think my dad would have been offended.

 

Of course OP's FIL may not be anything like my dad! ;)

 

But isn't he glad his minister read great works of theology and so could offer him that teaching? Yes, his life is rich and full, but perhaps it could be even richer and fuller had he read and discussed the Great Books. AND, perhaps he (all others who haven't) would have found it comforting or enriching to be able to join the Great Conversation--after all, feeling connected to others thru common experience, and finding those who can express their experience in beautiful and meaningful ways can only bring us together as human beings.

 

It goes beyond the Self.

[TammyS]

This all comes down to what you believe the point of education to be. If you believe in education primarily or solely as career training, then he's basically correct. Relatively few careers will derive any noticeable benefit from the study of substantial literature. If you believe that education has little to do with career, or that is has career as a secondary or lesser purpose, then what to include in that education is decided by an entirely different set of questions. For me, I'm attempting to provide what I know will be a less-than-perfect form of classical education that answers the questions (cribbed loosely from Tracy Lee Simmons): Is it true? Is it beautiful? And, if so, how then should we live?

[marbel]

But isn't he glad his minister read great works of theology and so could offer him that teaching? Yes, his life is rich and full, but perhaps it could be even richer and fuller had he read and discussed the Great Books. AND, perhaps he (all others who haven't) would have found it comforting or enriching to be able to join the Great Conversation--after all, feeling connected to others thru common experience, and finding those who can express their experience in beautiful and meaningful ways can only bring us together as human beings.

 

It goes beyond the Self.

 

Sure, I'm not arguing against it. I'm taking the position of the person who (theoretically, in this case) might argue against it.

 

Some people don't care about being part of the Great Conversation. I know folks (even some homeschoolers) who feel that way; they simply don't see the relevance of literature in their lives and they don't see that their lives are lacking. Of course we can't always see what we lack, right? But it can be insulting to someone who feels they have lived a good life, to be told by others (particularly younger others, kwim?) that their lives are not as complete as they think they are.

Edited October 20, 2012 by marbel

[kalanamak]

My husband would think such a thing, and what I have pointed out to him is that I am trying to broadly prepare kiddo for whatever he can/wants to do. This means being able to eat properly at a formal dinner, start a fire in the woods, ride a horse, intelligently discuss a novel, or evaluate a paper on the validity of the statistics used.

 

I tell him I choose not to limit him.

[Trish]

Well, it helps me with crossword puzzles.

 

I don't always respond to statements people make. He didn't actually ask a question. I suppose if he had said, "WHY do you use classic works in your curriculum?" I might have said, "so they have the body of knowledge necessary to understand references they may need to know later in life."

 

I didn't like Moby Dick either. :D

[bugs]

So tonight my FIL said to me, 'Back when I was in high school, they had me read all these books like Moby Dick and stuff, and it hasn't made any difference in my life whatsoever. There's no point to it.'

 

How does he know it hasn't made a difference? What would his understanding of the world and conversations with others been like without having read some of those books?

[Tutor]

"Because everyone else has" isn't necessarily a bad argument unless it's the sole argument. Cultural literacy and a common framework of knowledge allows us to communicate efficiently and identify common themes in literature and life. Knowing what a speaker or writer means when they say things like, "I'll huff and I'll puff," :tongue_smilie: or "the White Whale," or "tilting at windmills," is important and adds to the richness of communication. Who do you want the "everyone else" with whom your children share knowledge to be, anyway? The folks who've read Moby Dick, or the folks who watch Snooki?

 

Or you can just tell him you want them to get into a good college. ;)

 

Cat

 

:iagree:

 

Also, your fil was introduced to these works as a youth alongside the activities and knowledge base for the occupation, hobbies, and interests he chose to pursue. We all must make choices as to what we will focus on in our lives; we can't possibly do/ read/ experience/ learn everything (although many of us give it the old college try :D). Some things will fall by the wayside. By exposing your children to these texts in addition to other studies and activities, you not only give them the tools to be active participants in the diverse society in which they live but you open up a broad range of choices for them from which they can become more themselves and in which they will find their callings and joy... as your fil has.

[Durriyyah]

As a math geek, I felt the same way as your FIL. I probably would still feel that way if we didn't start homeschooling. Now that we are using the WTM book list and it goes along with history, I'm starting to see the benefit. You can know about the culture and what was important in that time period based on the literature created in that time.

 

Also, if the child wants to be a writer or otherwise a professional in English, they need good examples to emulate. Lastly, it just helps people become better story tellers in their own lives if they know the elements of a good story. If I want,y family to listen to me when I'm recalling something funny that happened today, how do I keep their attention?

[Guest submarines]

So tonight my FIL said to me, 'Back when I was in high school, they had me read all these books like Moby Dick and stuff, and it hasn't made any difference in my life whatsoever. :)

 

I think the key word there is "made". When literature is forced upon people it ususally makes any little real difference. Homeschooled literature can be tailored to each individual child, his or her developmental level and interests. There's more to great classical literature than a narrow selection that high schools usually offer.

[Jen500]

Have you read 'Classics in the Classroom' by Michael Clay Thompson? He has some really good thoughts on this, as well as some research of his own on classic words/vocabulary and other language benefits. It is definitely worth a read and would give you some good ammo for the ILs! :)

 

Sometimes, though, it can be best to pass the bean dip. :glare:

 

:iagree:

 

I really liked the observation MCT made about asking a student who has complained about reading a book if they REGRET having read the book.

[Home'scool]

I always say it's like lifting weights. You don't bench press 100 lbs because you expect to be walking down the street and all of a sudden encounter a life and death situation where you have to bench press 100lbs.

 

You do it because lifting weights makes your body stronger.

 

And reading books like Moby Dick, or anything challenging, leaves your brain stronger. You might never need to quote Moby Dick, you might never find it relevant, but you can be **** sure if you approached it the right way that it made your brain stronger.

 

The brain is just a big muscle :)

[Mommyof4ks]

I would just say that some things do not seem to have a direct impact on our lives, but those great books showed us a model for writing, great descriptive sentences, and why details are important. Our brains were making connections when we have to remember what happened in those complicated stories in order to make sense of things in the end. Today's literature generally has only a few characters, simple plots, and little real mystery, so those connections are not made as often reading those books.

[HS Mom in NC]

We read the classics because it's a great case study for the eternal truths of life; What is good, what is bad, what matters in life and relationships, what doesn't, what kind of person to be, what kind of person not to be. The classics are often written in different times and cultures than our own, so we can see that the world is full of people with different worldviews, different values, and different approaches to life.

 

By reading them we are offered the choice between what we've been immersed in in our time and culture or we can choose a different view. That's why those who want to control people burn books-they don't want people to have another option when it comes to ideas. Every great piece of literature is subtly or not so subtly making an argument for or against values of some sort. We either clarify our reasons for rejecting those ideas after we read about them or we accept those ideas more sure of them than we were before. If we differ from the cultural norms around us, the authors of classics that share our views are often our companions and comfort.

 

Or you can just read the book, answer some comprehension questions, grade the grammar, and move mindlessly on to the next thing on the list and learn nothing that matters in real life.