Being organized and running a household

[justamouse]

I wish I knew the answer, but I struggle with it too. I grew up in a messy house. Clean but cluttered. Always. I used to wonder if it's because I never learned, but I've taught myself other things, why not teach myself how to be organized? It's a very difficult thing to learn IMO. There must be something internal. Or maybe I'm just making excuses for myself.

 

My mother used to think she had ADD, and I wonder sometimes if I have it too. At the very least, I think I have an executive function deficit.

 

I'm not a young woman. This isn't due to lack of experience or trying. It's something I've always struggled with and still struggle with now in my fifties.

 

My mom did, too, and it was a nightmare. And I thought I had ADD forever, too, but what I realized, was that it was all her habits that I had taken up.

 

When I moved out and lived with friends and realized how bad mom's habits were, ...it was *really* hard to change. Really hard. Tremendously, tremendously hard. It is why I am militant about my own children's habits. I know how hard they are to change and I know how good ones get you most of the way to success.

[Soror]

I agree with others that it is matter of :

1) priorities

2) too much stuff

3) too much distraction

 

I've found as well that as I've had more kids I've had to be more organized to keep up. We had to have less, we have to be more efficient. I've focused more on training the children as well and I'm starting to reap the benefits now, woo hoo!

 

I've had to form my habits as well. My mom expected me to help some as we got older but there was little to no training in this regard. I hope that my own benefit when they are older from the work on habits we are doing. I love the family dynamic it creates as well with everyone working together. When we worked together growing up(which was generally doing outside projects) it was one of my most favorite family times. I love it just as much with my own kids. I just think there is so much value in it. I love that it is starting to be an automatic thing for them and me. There are of course tweaks along the way- especially with new babies and pregnancy but the more practice we get the easier it becomes.

[anneofalamo]

having a place in your house that is clean(and not your puter area...lol) helps me. When I clean my living room and I can sit in it and regroup and press on, that helps me.

I am a big believer in less is easier, and the conveniences of this time can be a hinderance.

Just nuke dinner (microwave), gives all that time to "relax"

The busier I am, the more I get done.

I clean the house in a routine, and let the other places wait.

flitting from one room to the other for perfection will drive you and the rest of your family crazy...trust me, I have heaped this in the past on my family. I am done with that!

I want to enjoy my kids, hubby and life. Part of that enjoyment to me, is a home that is clean.

[delaney]

I think a lot of it is the way we are wired. My mom didn't work and didn't have a car when we were small and the house was still messy. I fight with clutter every day and go on trash binges when I throw stuff out like nuts. I have tried motivated moms and that schedule seems to work ok for me. I do better with a checklist. My priority is the kitchen counters and laundry is a close second.

[swimmermom3]

Less stuff.

 

But, for me, it was also realizing that I, unintentionally, filled my time up with "planning" being organized rather than BEING organized.

 

Your grandmother had 24 hours in a day. Had she spent all that time reading books on how to organize, she wouldn't have just dug in and figured out what needed to go, to stay, and what worked.

 

FlyLady is built on the same premise. It tells you to commit 15 minutes to DOING rather than a larger time frame? Why? Because you'll be overwhelmed and want to "make a plan" which you will NOT EXECUTE.

 

I don't need a schedule.

I need a list. A short one. And it needs to be made daily in less than ten minutes and then I need to go DO it.

 

I don't need a schedule. I just need to get off the computer.

I don't need the best curriculum or new curriculum. I just need to UTILIZE what I thought was so awesome at the beginning of the year. Apparently I thought what? It was going to teach itself too?

 

I don't need a new cleaning technique.

I just need to actually go clean. The old way of "Put it away and wipe it up with a rag" works just fine.

 

I don't need cool new cleaners or another gadget to make cleaning "easier." I just need to stop looking at ads and reviews and go clean.

 

I don't need to read a book on time management. If I spend two hours a day reading a book and three hours online and another running various errands, I've lost six hours of time. No book can help me make that up.

 

What helps?

 

1. Get up.

2. Get dressed.

3. Get off the computer.

4. Do things. Don't just plan them.

5. Stay home several days a week. Deal with it.

6. Every time you're tempted to "plan" a new schedule or routine remind yourself the old one didn't work because it was bad. You never really committed to DOING it. (That also works for curriculum.)

 

BTW, it takes years of learning this, regressing, and re-learning it to write this post.

 

This is it, Kelly. This is what my Danish neighbor told me so many years ago. Well, she also told me that it was her impression that Americans liked their solutions to be big, dramatic, easy, and perfect and that we spent a lot of time being busy "doing nothing." Did I mention she was blunt?

 

For her, the answer to a clean house, a beautiful yard, a home-cooked dinner on the table every night, a trim body, a healthy bank balance and a keen intellectual life had everything to do with small habits and steps made daily. She picked up around the house, did a bit of cleaning and then maybe one longer term project like touching up trim on a daily basis. She never had to waste time and energy "digging out." There always seemed to be time in her day to "go to the well" and do a few things that nourished her and kept her energy level and motivation up. Those few small routines seemed to feed success in other areas. It took me a while to see the wisdom in her process, but it makes a huge difference here when I am on track like that. K's like FlyLady, but without all the extra steps and email.

[justLisa]

I don't know. I guess I am just not that focused on the state of my house. I mean the laundry is done, the kitchen is clean, and we always have fresh food. Bills are not late, I budget well enough to not stress.

 

I am a basket-er. I run around the room with a basket and collect random stuff so it looks tidy, then I try to put things here and there away from the basket.

 

But I also like to sew, and read, and take my kids to activities, and cook, and sit outside. Oh and I do workout a few times a week. I need that. I just want to enjoy my life and not worry so much about what it looks like. And I do have a lot of stuff. We all do. But there is a place for evertyhing. Not that everything is always put away. Not at all.

[marbel]

How small IS your house?

Having lived in a country where 1,000 sq ft is considered large for a family of four (we had a 750 sq ft apartment), it is both a matter of too much stuff and of bad storage organization. If you do not have a place to put your items, there are two things you can do: have fewer things, or optimize your storage space by coming up with better solutions.

 

I'm not going to post the square footage of my house because whenever I do, I get PMs from people with larger families in smaller houses chiding me for complaining about the size of my house. :confused:

 

So I'll just say my house is too small and has poor storage for my family and our lifestyle. We camp, do Scouts, sew, do arts and crafts, do needlework, read, cook, bake, play piano, have a dog... Aside from bedroom closets and typical cabinets in a ~100 sq ft kitchen, I have one coat-type closet, a closet with shelves (linen closet) and a crawlspace which has a 4-foot ceiling.

 

The crawlspace is nice, but hauling, say, the sewing machine in and out because there's no other place to store it gets tiring. So, if I have a lot of sewing to do, the machine might sit on the living room floor for a few days, looking like clutter. (I have to use the kitchen table as my sewing table.) That's how clutter-that-can't-be-decluttered comes about.

 

It's a first-world problem, I know. Maybe even an American-house-size expectation problem, I don't know.

[TammyS]

 

has poor storage for my family and our lifestyle.

 

While I completely sympathize with the small square footage (same here) layout (how the rooms, cabinets, and storage are arranged) REALLY makes a difference. Our home is VERY small (under 800sq ft) but we are fortunate that it is relatively well laid out. Don't get me wrong - the layout doesn't make it feel like 2000sq ft, but it helps.

 

I have a kitchen as big as many of my friends in larger homes, and while I don't technically have a dining room, there is a "bar" style counter between the kitchen and what I call my dining room, so it FEELS like I have a dining room (albeit small).

 

I have my washer and dryer in a closet, but there is a nice big, deep hefty shelf over them that holds not just laundry soap but cans of paint, some tools, etc. There is also several small lines strung up just under the shelf, so I can hang small items to dry.

 

We have 1 bathroom, but the sink is a vanity cabinet, so I get more storage under there.

 

Both bedrooms have large closets with heavy duty shelving that allows up to pack them pretty hard.

 

There is no extra "family room" type space to get away from the kids, but there is a hall door that shuts so we can have some privacy in the evenings should we want it.

 

And we live in the woods. That helps, mentally, a lot. We looked at a house in a nearby town (400 people). It's a nice, sleepy little town, nonexistent crime. But I knew before we went into the house that I didn't want it. The yard was fenced (chain link) but the yards on both sides and behind had dogs, running up and down the fence barking at each other across this house's yard. And when we were in the driveway, the neighbors in the next house over were on their back porch talking and I could hear EVERYTHING. Because the driveway was abutted to their back porch! It felt claustrophobic to me before I even went into the house. I knew right away that I would feel completely like I was surrounded (as in, "this is the police! we have you surrounded! come out with your hands up!) all the time if we lived there and would never be able to come out of the house. I never really knew how much outdoor space meant to me, mentally, until we looked at that house (and it had what a lot of town people would consider to be a "good" sized yard, about .25 acre).

 

FWIW, IKEA is a godsend for organization ideas and stuff.

[mommymilkies]

I agree-layout makes all the difference. We only have two closets in the house and radiators along almost every wall. This makes storage, and even vertical usage nearly impossible. We have to walk through the bedrooms to get to the bathroom or even for people to come in our house from where the parking is. On paper, our square footage is decent, but with 5 kids, pets, and these issues, it's extremely irritating, we had ~800 sq ft before with 4 kids and it often seemed easier than this.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Layout IS everything. When we were looking for a larger home we lived in 1600 sq. ft. We looked at 3000+ sq ft houses that felt smaller due to layout and wasted space! Now in a 2800 sq ft house we have more room, but more to clean also. What works for storage in one house just does not work in another. You can't clean clutter, but you have to be efficient also. Store things where you use them. Sometimes this means having more than one of the same item. Use it or love it or out it goes.

[HS Mom in NC]

1. Declutter

 

If you don't, nothing else you do to organize or clean will matter. When cleaning out, don't look for a reason to keep something-look for a reason to get rid of it. Just because you could use an item doesn't mean you will use it. Only keep what you can specifically articulate what you will use and when you will use it. Don't have more than two hobby related or school related projects going at one time.

 

2. Chores are a daily assignment just like school. First we do school until 2:30 or 3:00 (depending on the child's age) then everyone immediately does chores. There is no free time until chores are done.

 

3. Every day each kid has daily chores and a weekly chore. Chores are posted and rotated between the kids on a monthly basis. I selected which day of the week each weekly chore will be done based on what is going on that day. The weekly chores stay on the same day of the week until the schedule for extracurricular activities changes.

 

4. I keep a huge calendar on the fridge with every activity and appointment start time listed. Meal planning and chores are scheduled accordingly.

 

We have Tae Kwon Do 3 days a week and during outdoor archery season (Oct-Apr) we have archery 3-4 times a week. Piano, PE, are weekly and Art Class is every 2 weeks. We have no room for wingin' it.

 

5. All laundry is done on Mondays starting in the morning. Everyone in the house must stop what they are doing (including school assignments) as soon as the dryer buzzer goes off. They each get their own clothing items and immediately put them all away. Everyone helps fold and put away towels. Then they get back to their school assignments. We run one load right after the other until every single thing is done. Loads are done and come out of the dryer about every 40-60 minutes.

[Rosie_0801]

Granny did not spend hours a day chaffeuring DC to piano lessons, soccer games, swim practice, and scouts. Heck, my mom didn't do that! Amd if we were inside we better be doing chores or homework, not making some new mess. Otherwise, get out of the house and don't bother her.

 

It wasn't until I had kids of my own that I realised how little time my mother actually spent with us. She was in the house, and that certainly counted, but we probably only spoke to each other about an hour a day once we were at school, out of the three available hours between getting home and being sent to bed.

 

But then, I also spend a lot of time hiding. I'm not mentally ill like my mother, but like her I am an introvert.

 

The most important thing for me is sleep. If I sleep, I can get out of bed and do the routine things. If I don't sleep, I am aware I have 14 hours to go before I can sleep again, so I go into a laziness/conservation mode to make sure I last that long. I love sleeping.

 

Rosie

Edited October 19, 2012 by Rosie_0801

[BlsdMama]

Layout IS everything. When we were looking for a larger home we lived in 1600 sq. ft. We looked at 3000+ sq ft houses that felt smaller due to layout and wasted space! Now in a 2800 sq ft house we have more room, but more to clean also. What works for storage in one house just does not work in another. You can't clean clutter, but you have to be efficient also. Store things where you use them. Sometimes this means having more than one of the same item. Use it or love it or out it goes.

 

 

I want to deny it but there's a lot of truth to it. :glare:

 

We have lived in a house just around 1100 sq feet with eight kids. We currently live in a house with 3,000 finished square feet and four (FOUR?) bathrooms. I despise this house. Despise.

 

The small house was an old farmhouse. Back in the day when it was built (give or take eighty years ago) they were family centered. HUGE eat in kitchen, decent sized family room - ONE. The bedrooms were small and upstairs and had enough room for beds and a dresser. You SLEPT in them.

 

You know what? I had to be very careful with what I let into the house. Why? Because it was SMALL and it could take over.

 

If you have four bathrooms you have to clean four bathrooms. If you have space in the children's bedrooms for stuff, stuff will migrate to the children's bedrooms. If you have to living rooms, the kids will "live" in both. Sigh. I want my old house back.

 

Thank you, oh great state of Oregon for deciding for ME, that a family my size MUST (legally) reside in a home with this much space. I can't tell you how much I loathe your interference. I think "fondly" of your legislators every time I clean yet one more bathroom. :glare:

[Carrie75]

For some reason, I am a very good at running my household efficiently and keeping it clean. Some things I chalk it up to are: being in constant motion and multi-tasking - if I'm headed to the kitchen from the living room, I pick stuff up along the way, for example. Being in constant motion also eliminates my need to do formal exercise, which takes up time. My daily activity is exercise enough (plus I'm the one who parks across the parking lot at Walmart - yes, with kids in tow, or will park far away and walk to the Post Office). My days are long, my girls get up around 6am every day and I go to bed around 11:00pm every day (9pm and on, I don't do any household work) so I have a lot of time to get stuff done. I'm a volume producer, somehow I get a lot done in a sort amount of time.

 

I also rotate around cleaning the other rooms I don't clean daily.

 

But I think mainly it's just moving, moving, moving. Yes, I'm exhausted but it's a good kind of tired because everything is neat and tidy and ready to go!

 

I think what you wrote is key and much more important then house size, amount of stuff, or schedule. People with clean homes are constantly cleaning and/or tidying. Your Grandmother didn't have dishes in the sink because it was a priority to get up and clean rather then relax or whatever after a meal.

[Laura Corin]

My mother-in-law rarely sat down. Once or twice a day she would say, 'Goodness, I need to sit down.' She would then very deliberately make a coffee and sit down to read a book for half an hour. Otherwise she was in constant motion. Her house was pristine.

 

Laura

[marbel]

My mother-in-law rarely sat down. Once or twice a day she would say, 'Goodness, I need to sit down.' She would then very deliberately make a coffee and sit down to read a book for half an hour. Otherwise she was in constant motion. Her house was pristine.

 

Laura

 

I think this is another key thing.

 

We (I) often say "I never have any downtime" but in reality many of us take little bits of downtime every day. I had a revelation once, when I caught myself standing at the kitchen counter, flipping through a catalog of stuff I knew wasn't going to buy, while eating chocolate chips out of the bag. This was downtime. It wasn't satisfying, it wasn't useful, but it was how I was choosing to spend some of my time.

 

A deliberate time to sit down, have a coffee or whatever while reading something more substantial than a catalog (there's a low bar!) would be much more satisfying and refreshing than stopping for little bits of time throughout the day. More efficient, too. And it makes it easier to get up and get back to work.

 

I also find that the more I keep moving during the day, the easier it is to lose weight. Shazaam! Who'da thunk it?

[Luckymama]

My mother-in-law rarely sat down. Once or twice a day she would say, 'Goodness, I need to sit down.' She would then very deliberately make a coffee and sit down to read a book for half an hour. Otherwise she was in constant motion. Her house was pristine.

 

Laura

 

Oh my goodness, this was my grandmother! I aspire to be her :001_smile:

[MissKNG]

I think what you wrote is key and much more important then house size, amount of stuff, or schedule. People with clean homes are constantly cleaning and/or tidying. Your Grandmother didn't have dishes in the sink because it was a priority to get up and clean rather then relax or whatever after a meal.[QUOTE]

 

This is about me!! And that is how I feel! :D

 

My dad is the same way, he likes to be busy, moving, doing stuff. Now that he's getting older, he rests more but he was always on the move too.

 

And again, it cuts out the "formal exercise" too. 16 hours or so of movement burns calories!

Edited October 19, 2012 by MissKNG

[sunnylady303]

I posted about this awhile back in this thread. Since then I have made a little bit of progress and identified things that give me trouble. A good friend of mine who is gifted in this area is working as an accountability partner for me and it has been a huge blessing. I am on day 41 of my new life. :) I send her an accountability email everyday and that really helps me.

 

When we started, she sent me these things to live by. They are simple but they helped me and I am still living by these five things. This is her email to me.

 

I have been thinking last night and this morning and wanted to share some thoughts with you. First, I don't know if you know that house-keeping has been mostly an skill learned in adulthood for me as well. My sister in her tactful way once told me that she was "grossed out" by our first house. I don't really think it was my fault that mold grew in the closets :), but her point was not completely invalid. I was not a very good house-keeper, and I didn't even have kids! My excuse was always that after classes and homework and ministry I was just too tired to do the dishes, etc. Really I think I had not yet learned self-discipline. No matter what my mind may tell me, I am almost never too tired to spend 15 minutes before bed cleaning up the kitchen so that I start fresh in the morning. And that makes such a difference. Back to the point, though, during the early years of our marriage, and especially when our kids were very small, I was constantly overwhelmed by the house. I would have "breakdowns" every few months where I would just cry and say, "I can't do it. I can't do it." As you know, it is still a challenge for me, and at this time when [the baby] is still so little and we hope there are more to come, I am grateful that we can afford to have [housekeeper] come and help me "catch up" every other week. Before [new baby] was born, though, without [housekeeper], I had finally reached a point of feeling that I could "manage my household" reasonably. So, from that limited degree of proficiency, I will share.

 

Household management was really the skill that I lacked. My mom, even in her busy over-whelmedness, did teach me to clean a bathroom and scrub a floor, etc. I could do those quite well, but that is such a different skill from keeping a home in order. Kind of like the difference between knowing how to follow a recipe and being a good cook (another thing, as you know, I've had to really struggle to learn). So, from what I've learned in the area of "home management" over the last twelve years, I thought of five points that I think could revolutionize your home.

 

1. Think of yourself as a human vacuum. Sounds weird, I know, but I really think that this has made more of a difference than anything else in my house-keeping. I have trained myself to scan a room as I walk through for things out of place that need to be rearranged or put away. Sometimes I need to call the "culprit" and do some training, and sometimes it is just too big of a job to do on the fly, but I am amazed by how many little messes can just be cleaned up as I go. "In-between" moments are also great opportunities to catch up on lingering messes. While waiting for the teapot to boil, you might be tempted to sneak in a few rows or check on facebook. Resist! Clean kitchen counters instead :).

 

2. Make it your policy not to start on a new meal until the dishes from the last meal are done (or in the dishwasher). [A friend] says, "Always do dishes after every meal." That, of course, is better, but at this stage it is not do-able for me. Well, I guess that's not really true, I could have the kids do the breakfast dishes while I nurse [the baby] and get him down for his morning rest. I'm just always so eager to get them started on their school work, but maybe I should rethink that...Anyway, at least if you make sure the kitchen is clean before you start the next project you never end up with the awful sink piled to the ceiling feeling. Of course, there will be days when things go wrong--there is an urgent need at the time you would be cleaning up and you don't have time to hold off on supper and "Ahhh, it's 9 p.m. and the lunch dishes are still in the sink under the supper dishes!" But you take a deep breath and tackle them all so that tomorrow you can get back to your "normal."

 

3. Assign two half-hour slots for you and the girls to focus entirely on cleaning up. This is not something that I do, but is similar to what I used to do when [husband] worked a more typical schedule, and I think it could be very valuable to both you and the girls in establishing a clean routine. Before you start school work in the a.m. I believe it would be beneficial to both your home and your school day for the three of you to spend 15 minutes to half an hour (whatever the girls can handle) preparing your space--cleaning up any clutter, making beds, etc. The second slot would be just before [your husband] gets home. I don't remember when it was that I heard or read it, but I remember making it my goal that when [husband] got home from work he should find the house in order and me looking fresh and cheerful. It sounds kind of sickeningly 1950's, but I really believe that the encouragement both given and received is worth it.

 

4. Unless you are really sick, always clean up the kitchen before bed. Sometimes I feel so dead-tired at night that this is a real mountain for me, but nothing sabatoges my day so much as to wake up to a dirty kitchen. When I give in and leave a sink-ful of dishes I begin the next day feeling that I am already losing the battle. This is a lesson that did not really sink in for me until the past couple of years, and it has made such a difference. After consistently practicing it, I have also just recently started to notice that if something calls me away (like a fussy baby) [husband] will take over--not because he cares about the dishes, but because he knows that I will come down very weary and say, "I just have to get this kitchen clean before I can go to bed."

 

5. Institute "Saturday Morning Chores." This is another thing that is different from the way that I do things. When [husband] is home we all really enjoy spending Saturday mornings together. But I grew up with "Saturday morning chores," and I think it would work well in your family's schedule. Since my mom worked Mon.-Fri., Saturday was the only chance to get the house clean. She would divide up the responsabilities among herself and us children and no one was allowed to do anything else (except eat) until our chores were done. If you made a "House-cleaning checklist," the girls could even take some ownership--choosing what jobs they did and checking them off with you until all the basic cleaning for the week was done. That would leave you free to relax and enjoy time with your honey on Sunday and parts of Monday. I may even rethink that for us (if my honey's on-board with it). It would eliminate the need for having [housekeeper] come. Hmmm...

 

Well, that's it. I hope it's helpful. I know you're capable of making a beautiful, orderly environment for your family. I'm still picturing your lovely kitchen :).

 

I've lived by these 5 things for 41 days now and our life has been transformed. Just sharing my experience. Good luck. It is so hard.

[MissKNG]

My mother-in-law rarely sat down. Once or twice a day she would say, 'Goodness, I need to sit down.' She would then very deliberately make a coffee and sit down to read a book for half an hour. Otherwise she was in constant motion. Her house was pristine.

 

Laura

 

My deliberate sit down time is usually when dh and I go out to dinner together without kids. I actually sit and enjoy my meal. When the girls are there, it's not relaxing and there's bathroom runs, etc!

[marbel]

Thank you, oh great state of Oregon for deciding for ME, that a family my size MUST (legally) reside in a home with this much space. I can't tell you how much I loathe your interference. I think "fondly" of your legislators every time I clean yet one more bathroom. :glare:

 

I am curious about this. Is that new(ish)? We lived in Oregon from 1998 - 2007 and the only law I remember said that opposite-sex children over a certain age couldn't share a bedroom. We knew several large (6+ kids) in 3 bed/1 or 2bath homes.

 

I thought Oregon was all about smaller houses on small pieces of land these days. We had 1 3/4 acres and we were considered land hogs. Maybe that was just Portland area, though.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

For some reason, I am a very good at running my household efficiently and

keeping it clean. Some things I chalk it up to are: being in constant motion and multi-tasking - if I'm headed to the kitchen from the living room, I pick stuff up along the way, for example. Being in constant motion also eliminates my need to do formal exercise, which takes up time. My daily activity is exercise enough (plus I'm the one who parks across the parking lot at Walmart - yes, with kids in tow, or will park far away and walk to the Post Office). My days are long, my girls get up around 6am every day and I go to bed around 11:00pm every day (9pm and on, I don't do any household work) so I have a lot of time to get stuff done. I'm a volume producer, somehow I get a lot done in a sort amount of time.

 

I also rotate around cleaning the other rooms I don't clean daily.

 

But I think mainly it's just moving, moving, moving. Yes, I'm exhausted but it's a good kind of tired because everything is neat and tidy and ready to go!

 

:iagree:

I'm ALWAYS doing something and moving. If I didn't stay on top of it, it would get completely out of control quickly. I also make my kids pick up and do chores. They have a white board hanging on the kitchen laundry room door that lists what they need to do each morning, and they need to initial next to what they've done.:)

[justamouse]

I posted about this awhile back in this thread. Since then I have made a little bit of progress and identified things that give me trouble. A good friend of mine who is gifted in this area is working as an accountability partner for me and it has been a huge blessing. I am on day 41 of my new life. :) I send her an accountability email everyday and that really helps me.

 

I've lived by these 5 things for 41 days now and our life has been transformed. Just sharing my experience. Good luck. It is so hard.

 

 

WOW, you need to make her a pie and thank God for the blessing she is! She is SO spot on!

[sunnylady303]

WOW, you need to make her a pie and thank God for the blessing she is! She is SO spot on!

 

A pie is a great idea. She is a blessing in so many ways and more like a sister than a friend.

 

And my life has been changed by her and by those things. It can be done, I believe it.

[TammyS]

 

Thank you, oh great state of Oregon for deciding for ME, that a family my size MUST (legally) reside in a home with this much space. I can't tell you how much I loathe your interference. I think "fondly" of your legislators every time I clean yet one more bathroom. :glare:

 

If I had four bathrooms (fantasy land, I have one), I would put a lock on at least one and maybe two (depending on need) and it would only get unlocked when we had guests. That way I would KNOW that there was at least one clean bathroom.

 

Are you serious that the state requires you to live in a house that size?

 

What if you refuse? Who pays? What if you can't afford it even if you want to?

 

If this is true, Oregon is a loathsome, communist state.:ack2::mad: