co-op question

[MeganW]

We joined a co-op this year that meets every other Friday. Each mom leads one class, helps in one class, and then has the other two "periods" off. The topics seemed fun, so we joined. I am leading "Book Club" (which is basically like Five in a Row), and helping in "World Cultures". I have the 4K and kindergarten group.

 

In my group of 12, I have 2 who can write their names. The rest cannot even tell me the FIRST LETTER of their first names, let alone spell or write them. They don't know their numbers, or even their colors. Can't hold a crayon, and it is very clear that they have NEVER used scissors or glue.

 

What is odd is that this is NOT an unschooling kinda group. Most of the kids in my group are the younger or youngest of a large family. The older siblings are well-educated, but I guess there just isn't time to pay any attention to the youngers. Every kid in there *seems* to be neurotypical. One asks me to teach her to read every single time we meet. I am working with her on her letter sounds, but since I only see her twice a month, we haven't made much progress.

 

It's not been the best experience, and it leads me to wonder if these kids wouldn't be better off going to preschool & kindergarten, then coming home. I know, I know, not my business!

 

But WOULD you say anything to the parents? I'm trying to figure out how to politely let them know that their kids are falling behind and need some attention. Would it be awful to send a general letter to all the class parents, saying something to the effect of "please work with your kids at home on xxx to help them get more out of class"? Or is that still going too far?

[TranquilMind]

But WOULD you say anything to the parents? I'm trying to figure out how to politely let them know that their kids are falling behind and need some attention. Would it be awful to send a general letter to all the class parents, saying something to the effect of "please work with your kids at home on xxx to help them get more out of class"? Or is that still going too far?

 

 

No, I think your letter idea is perfect. Just indicate the skills that will be developed in this class and ask the parents to make sure they have covered or work on (list of skills) in order to facilitate the class.

[Ellie]

So, you have 4- and 5yo children.

 

I wouldn't expect 4yo children to be able to write their names. I wouldn't be surprised at 5yo dc who couldn't write their names.

 

It is weird, though, that they don't know how to do scissors or crayons or glue. :001_huh:

 

Yeah, I'd write that letter.

 

No, they wouldn't be better off in school. There's more to homeschooling than a 4yo being able to use scissors and glue.

[Guest]

I would not say anything, especially with 4s & 5s. NO way. I have been in a few co-ops now and am slowly becoming aware of the different rate that kids pick things up and (ETA) the different priorities/methods of different parents. I think that is definitely each family's own concern and no, I don't think these kids would be better in school. IME, 4s & Ks classes usually are a literature based or letter based class (like you are doing). You can work with them on those cutting and pasting skills, too.

 

This is the reason that I am not VERY cautious of what co-ops my kids participate in and especially which co-ops I teach. I think the best thing I have found in the co-ops I've participated in is to have lower expectations than I do at home and try to feel out the class and adjust my lessons to what they can do, making the most of it.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Guest

[5LittleMonkeys]

I don't know, on the one hand I can see how it is difficult for you to do the class if the dc can't physically cut\paste, but on the other hand I'm of the mind that some skills just aren't that critical. Why, other than participating in your class, should a 4yo be fluent in the use of scissors and glue. Why should they know how to write their names yet, other than needing to in a classroom situation...I'm sure at home everyone knows who's paper is who's.;)

 

The longer I spend educating my own children the more I realize how silly it is that we, as a society, push skills onto kids at earlier and earlier ages. I did pretty much no handwriting practice with ds6 when he was 3, 4 and 5. This year we have focused on letter formation and it is going so much more smoothly than the years and years I spent trying to get my girls to write neatly when they were 3 and 4yo. There are some skills that I just think come with time and experience and there is no set age that they must be mastered. I'd definitely put being proficient in gluing and cutting in that category.

 

The idea that these children would be better off in ps just so they can learn to cut and paste and learn their letter sounds a year earlier...??? I'll pretend I didn't read that on a homeschooling forum.

[Raising Little Shoots]

My dd turned 7 in September. I only began to teach her reading /writing / maths when she turned 6. She now writes in cursive. But, then, I would not have had her in a co-op like the one you describe. (though she would have been at home with the scissors & glue!)

 

Did the parents realise their young children needed to be able to write when they signed up? Could the activities be adapted?

 

I feel very strongly that it is wrong to question whether these little children would be better off in school because they are not yet reading or writing.

[Ellie]

I don't know, on the one hand I can see how it is difficult for you to do the class if the dc can't physically cut\paste, but on the other hand I'm of the mind that some skills just aren't that critical. Why, other than participating in your class, should a 4yo be fluent in the use of scissors and glue. Why should they know how to write their names yet, other than needing to in a classroom situation...I'm sure at home everyone knows whose paper is whose.;)

 

Learning to use scissors is helpful in developing fine motor skills and finger strength. I don't see any reason *not* to teach a 4yo how to use them. I also don't see anything wrong with children learning to write their own names on any papers they color/glue/write on. They won't always be doing it only at home, KWIM?

 

The idea that these children would be better off in ps just so they can learn to cut and paste and learn their letter sounds a year earlier...??? I'll pretend I didn't read that on a homeschooling forum.

Gently. We're pounding on her pretty good already, lol.

[Soror]

Well, my ds couldn't do any of those things at 4 or 5, whereas dd who is 5 has had those skills for a good while. Dd2.5 can cut, glue and is starting to color. It varies widely.

 

I would say since you have observed that the older children are not ill educated perhaps the families have realized that structured learning for the pre-k and k crowd isn't necessary of advanced learning later. I don't do much formal with dd5, whereas with ds I tried to work a lot harder.

[ErinE]

There are HUGE developmental leaps from the ages of 4 to 6. At my dd's preschool, pre-K4 curriculum was letter of the week, numbers/counting, and colors/shapes. Writing was proper hand grip and basic letter formation. At the beginning, she could not have been able to tell you the first letter of her name nor write ANY letters. Perhaps she could have sung her ABCs correctly. She struggled with scissors and glue. I considered her skills average and have independent test results to prove it.

 

 

Two years later, she is creating small booklets, spends hours crafting with scissors and glue, and reads at grade level.

 

If your kindergarten kids don't know their letters, numbers, colors, or shapes, I might consider them a little behind, but I would spend your time with them working on these things. I think you could write a letter stating what you intend to work on and encourage parents to extend the skills to home, but I wouldn't say, "Your children are falling behind."

[kbpaulie]

Each child and each family develops differently. And I'd say that it's the first borns that have had the time w/ mom to develop the skillls and it's the later borns who don't have this same undivided attention opportunity.

 

At our co-op, even in the KDG class there is a wide variety of skills and abilities. And I was told once that glue and cutting are skills lacking in homeschooled children. But it's not a deal breaker -at all!

 

Do you have an aide? If not, is there a parent who could help you out? Are there things you can pre-cut for some or all the children. Know that the cutting won't be perfect and be OK w/ that. Give them little glue sticks. Remind them each time how to use these. Be willing to write their names on the back of their papers. Give them their names nicely printed on paper and laminated for them to trace.

 

I think that you can send a letter home. The letter can't state that these skills are lacking, but rather a "Here's what we worked on in class this week and you may want to continue to work on it. Here are some ways that you can do this..." (For us, co-op is just an extra, and I likely wouldn't have done anything extra even if the teacher had suggested it.)

 

You can also have syllabus for the class that includes goals for the class and include some of the learning objectives you've mentioned. I think the biggest thing to do, again, is to remember these are young children, with various gifts and abilities, and this is just a small part of their education. And please be patient w/ these little ones. Spend a lot of time on reading, hands on stuff, tactile, nature walks or walks around the parking lot (w/ extra adults and perhaps holding on to a rope), morning circle time working on letter, numbers, days of week, etc.

 

Here is a desc. from our 4-5 yo/ Pre-K class at co-op:

This class is for children who will be 4 by the first day of co-op. Our class is very busy! We start off each day with circle time, where we focus on the weather, letter of the day, birthdays, days of the week, months of the year and seasons. Our Star of the Day is identified, and he or she has a share time. We state the Pledge of Allegiance. We then work on our ABC Journal, which is a weekly tactile/sensory craft that is collected in a notebook and sent home near the end of the year. Music time usually follows where the children learn fun, bible songs and focus on rhythm. The children then move into free time where we may pull out playdoh, stamps, puzzles, the parachute or various other learning activities. At the end of the year we have the fire department and Zoo come to visit.

 

and also here (afternoon teacher)

The afternoon p4/5 class will use hands on activities and quality

literature to explore age appropriate topics such as the five senses,

leaves, snow, color mixing, life cycle of the butterfly, clouds,

family, opposites, letters, numbers, sorting, and several other topics

through out the year. The classroom will be organized into centers

and the children encouraged to choose an area of interest to them, and

practice their social skills. A complete work cycle will be

encouraged (making an appropriate choice, completing the work, and

cleaning the work). Children should be able to stay with a group in

open areas as we will be taking walks outside throughout the year to

explore and follow verbal directions. We will not focus on product

oriented activities, several of our experiments have no take home

work, particularly towards the beginning of the year. I'm looking

forward to a great year.

[Holly]

I taught those ages in VBS this year, and I have to say many of the public schooled kids wouldn't have been able to do these things either. I would simply ask who needed help writing their names and write it on the paper for them...no judgement or notes to the parent needed. I would try to help those that needed help and find activities that they could all do. I taught a co-op class with those ages last year, and they enjoyed activities more than arts and crafts, so I tried to focus on those.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Holly

[TracyP]

I taught those ages in VBS this year, and I have to say many of the public schooled kids wouldn't have been able to do these things either. I would simply ask who needed help writing their names and write it on the paper for them...no judgement or notes to the parent needed. I would try to help those that needed help and find activities that they could all do. I taught a co-op class with those ages last year, and they enjoyed activities more than arts and crafts, so I tried to focus on those.

:iagree: I teach Sunday School to 3-6 year olds. Except for my own children, those who are old enough are in public school. The 6yo kids could do what you listed, but not the younger ones. Even many of the older ones still don't have the name thing down when it comes to things like capitalization and writing the letters in their name in the right order. It has never even crossed my mind that they are behind.

[Farrar]

Like others said, there's such variance - especially with the 4 yos. I admit that I would be slightly surprised by a 5 yo who didn't know how to write his name at all... but I wouldn't be too worried by it either. I know the kneejerk reaction is to think, school would be better, but there are so many factors at play. I'd let that go.

 

But WOULD you say anything to the parents? I'm trying to figure out how to politely let them know that their kids are falling behind and need some attention. Would it be awful to send a general letter to all the class parents, saying something to the effect of "please work with your kids at home on xxx to help them get more out of class"? Or is that still going too far?

 

If you do send a letter, I think I'd turn that phrasing around a little. Maybe something more like, "If you're interested in reinforcing the things we're working on in class, here's some of the things we've been doing..."

[Amethyst]

No way. Do not send a letter. Do not say anything.

[kiwik]

Not being able to write their name seems fairly normal but I find it strange when kids don't at least know colours, counting and shapes by 4. Just me though because my 3 year old has known them for a while. I know plenty don't - I just don't generally meet them.

[8filltheheart]

We joined a co-op this year that meets every other Friday. Each mom leads one class, helps in one class, and then has the other two "periods" off. The topics seemed fun, so we joined. I am leading "Book Club" (which is basically like Five in a Row), and helping in "World Cultures". I have the 4K and kindergarten group.

 

In my group of 12, I have 2 who can write their names. The rest cannot even tell me the FIRST LETTER of their first names, let alone spell or write them. They don't know their numbers, or even their colors. Can't hold a crayon, and it is very clear that they have NEVER used scissors or glue.

 

What is odd is that this is NOT an unschooling kinda group. Most of the kids in my group are the younger or youngest of a large family. The older siblings are well-educated, but I guess there just isn't time to pay any attention to the youngers. Every kid in there *seems* to be neurotypical. One asks me to teach her to read every single time we meet. I am working with her on her letter sounds, but since I only see her twice a month, we haven't made much progress.

 

It's not been the best experience, and it leads me to wonder if these kids wouldn't be better off going to preschool & kindergarten, then coming home. I know, I know, not my business!

 

But WOULD you say anything to the parents? I'm trying to figure out how to politely let them know that their kids are falling behind and need some attention. Would it be awful to send a general letter to all the class parents, saying something to the effect of "please work with your kids at home on xxx to help them get more out of class"? Or is that still going too far?

 

What precisely do you mean by they are falling behind and need some attention? Are they falling behind in your co-op class? Do they need attention in doing "homework" prior to coming into the co-op class? Or do you mean b/c they are 4/5 yrs old and can't write, can't identify their numbers, etc that they are "falling behind" and need "educational instruction" type attention b/c they aren't accomplishing what you believe 4/5 yr olds should be able to do?

 

While I can't imagine why a 4/5 yr old does not know how to cut or hold a crayon/pencil (though I certainly imagine children that don't want to ;) ) and not understanding counting (which is completely different than being able to identify numbers), not writing their names or being able to read or identify numbers at 4/5 is not behind (regardless of the propaganda suggesting that pre-school is necessary for higher levels of academic performance at older ages.) Others have posted that info already. But as a mom that deliberately does not teach pre-school and doesn't care if her 4/5 yr olds know how to write their names, my reaction to a letter if you sent one would simply be to ignore it unless it was a skill that was expected in order to participate in the class, in which case I would pull my child out.

 

As far as colors, I never understood the concept of having an older child not just knowing their colors until I had one that for some reason could not identify her colors until she was almost 5 (no matter how many color games we played.) Whatever.....she knows them now. ;)

 

FWIW, none of my kids could identify letters prior to K. And all of them are academically on-grade level or very accelerated.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I have taught this age in a co-op setting with classes similar. It is hard when there are so many differing levels of skills in a class that meets so seldom.

I think a brief outline of the class lessons by date of the co-op with a brief description such as cutting, pasting...and what book you are rowing.

As for the name writing, I wrote each kids name on each paper for them. A few did know how to write their names. Most didn't. It was easier for me to write their names on the papers before we started or after the lesson was over if it was a craft or something.

I personally hate that the pre-k/K class in co-op is academic. Each parent does different things with their homeschool. My k'er is stuck in the older preschool class b/c of his birthday and the teacher doing the phonics hour is doing handwriting with them. It drives me batty b/c we don't use triple lined paper but use HWOT and he will be 1st grade by October.

We do the co-op b/c of my older kid's needs and my younger is just along for the ride. I wish they would just have music and movement, storytime, and arts and crafts instead of phonics, numbers, and storytime. I have to correct some of the things mine has been taught at co-op. He is now starting his letters wrong. He was starting them all at the top. Now he is doing it horrible. So I wouldn't advise saying anything to a parent about their child's lack of skills. Write the names on the papers and give the parents a heads up when there will be cutting and pasting.

[freesia]

I agree with the others. They aren't behind. My ds who couldn't keep his letters straight in the beginning of first grade was reading Harry Potter by the end.

 

I remember learning to write my name in Kindergarten.

 

Counting objects used to be K work, too.

 

I had children who'd been in school since 3 who couldn't use scissors when I taught first grade. Although my children use scissors from the time they are 3, neither of my boys could cut anything out until they were 6. Sometimes fine motor takes a while.

 

If this were the 1970s they'd be right on target. And, those are perfectly appropriate skills to learn in K.

[SevenDaisies]

I would say since you have observed that the older children are not ill educated perhaps the families have realized that structured learning for the pre-k and k crowd isn't necessary of advanced learning later. I don't do much formal with dd5, whereas with ds I tried to work a lot harder.

 

:iagree: I pushed my oldest a lot harder at that age, but realized there was no reason to rush when my son turned 4.

 

Don't write a letter.

[A home for their hearts]

I am teaching the preschool classes and our co-op this year and I have noticed a wide range of abilities. All of which I believe are normal for each unique child. Our co-op meets once a week. For the preschool classes we are really laid back. We read stories, do crafts, and simple science experiments. If a child can write their name on their paper great, if not I have no problem, or concern, writing it for them. I haven't been brave enough yet to give a class of 20 preschooler scissors yet. ;) But I'm sure they would vary greatly in their abilities to use this.

 

Since homeschool families vary greatly in their philosophies of what they expect of their little ones I wouldn't be concerned that they are 'falling behind' I didn't start teaching my ds8 to read and write until last year. I don't think he could even write his no until last year. For me I know my son and what he is capable of and reading/writing/spelling is not his strength. However my dd4 has been writing her name for a year and loving it! She still doesn't her abc's, I've decided to work on phonemic awareness activities with her first. I far more important skill then being able to recognize the alphabet.

 

Parent's know and love their children more than any teacher ever concerned. If the children in your class can't do something you think they should maybe that child is just not ready yet, or it's not a priority for that family right now. I wouldn't be concerned and I wouldn't send a letter.

[Homemama2]

I taught Sunday School for that age group for 10 yrs. And since they are putting the 5 yr olds w/ the 4 yr olds, I would expect preK level for the class, not K. And preK can be ALL over the map. ;) Honestly, it REALLY depends on the child. I had kids in the same family where one child could easily do all of the things you mentioned, while another child acted completely clueless. And it wasn't always the oldest that knew the skills. My oldest took much longer learning all of the above than my younger child, and not for lack of trying on my part.

 

If I were you, I wouldn't bother sending a letter b/c by the time the kids DO acquire the skills, they probably won't be in your class anyway. ;) I would just adjust your expectations for the class and work with the level you have. If you're doing a craft, you can cut out things ahead of time. Often with preK-ers, I had to do the glue for them and just let them stick the two pieces of paper together. They can color even if the whole concept of a crayon seems foreign. Could you have them act things out or do games if the crafts are over their heads?

 

And by the way, the class I'm talking about teaching for SS was MOSTLY kids that were in a preK program, although there were a few homeschoolers.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Homemama2

[lea1]

I would not say anything. I would adjust the class to be at the level of the kids. My sons are in a Spanish class at our co-op for K-2nd (and there are also some pre-K's in there). When the teacher saw the large age and skill span (4 to 8 year olds) she adjusted the papers to fit their needs. So when it is time to do a paper, some of the kids will copy Spanish sentences, some will copy some Spanish words and some will draw a line from a Spanish word to the picture that goes with it. It is working out very nicely for this group of kids and they all love this class and the teacher.

 

For the little girl who wants to learn to read, you might explain about the limited amount of time you have together and tell her to ask her mom or older sibling to teach her.

[2_girls_mommy]

I have a lot of experience with that age group as well: I have taught my own. I have taught at children's church to public schooled children. I have taught preschool at co-op for several years. I work in an aftercare program w/preschoolers-3rd graders from a private and a public school.

 

Many Kers and preKers at this stage of the year can't cut or write letters yet. Completely normal.

 

They may not accepted into a public school K program next year if they can't cut or hold the pencil or say their ABCs yet. But most homeschoolesr aren't trying to get their kids into a PS K class next year :) And those highly educated older kids came from the same moms who have experience and will educate their youngers in the same fashion, on their own schedules. Don't worry.

 

Don't send a letter, unless it is to tell the parents what you are working. Most are probably just thankful that they are getting that practice in your class, so keep up the practice there!

[AimeeM]

A lot of homeschool families (even rigorous home educators) do not begin formal instruction until 5 or 6.

 

I'm going to sound older than I am here - but I can remember learning my letters in kindergarten (age 5) when I was a kid. Writing? Shoo. We colored. Just because it's considered the "norm" now to expect it much, much earlier, doesn't mean it's necessary.

 

My 3.5 year old knows his colors, shapes, alphabet, beginning phonics, and numbers (he can recognize and dictate); he cannot, however, properly use scissors and cannot draw a straight line (much less write a letter). I do NOT consider that abnormal.

 

I wouldn't sen that letter. You're asking for trouble. I would be livid if a co-op Mom sent a letter stating that my child was "behind". If I wanted my children held to the same standards as all other children, they would be in public school.

Edited October 6, 2012 by AimeeM

[staceyobu]

I agree with others that the skill levels vary widely at these ages.

 

My oldest was reading chapter books at 4 and could write her name since she was like 3.

 

My second had no interest in doing anything but playing with matchbox cars or digging in the dirt. He could not write his name at almost 5 years old. He barely knew what letter his name started with.

 

However, at 5 and a few months, he is now reading Dr. Seuss books and rocking my world with his letter formation. He was just busy in the dirt up till now!

[Durriyyah]

I guess I would send a letter just describing what you are doing in class and some fun suggestions on what they can do at home to enrich their experience. I'm sure the parents want the child to gain something and would love to build on the fun they are having at the co-op. at that age, their skills could be in any number of areas, some of which are not covered in a classroom setting.