State Testing and Math

[fourcatmom]

My kids bombed in Math on their state test. We have been using TT for the past year and are using it again this year. I knew they were behind in math but I thought they would score better.

 

Do I stay with TT that runs a year behind or try to introduce something new?

Any suggestions, they do well on their daily lessons normally scoring between 90 and 100% so I am sure it's just that they are running a year behind not so much not understanding what they are learning. If that makes any sense at all?

[Arcadia]

Did your children try the Star testing released test questions for math? That might give you a better idea if they are mis-interpreting the questions or if they lack content knowledge.

[Crimson Wife]

If you basically like TT, I would use a few of the Math Mammoth single-topic "blue" worktexts to get them caught up on the most important topics and then skip them into the next grade level of TT.

[fourcatmom]

Did your children try the Star testing released test questions for math? That might give you a better idea if they are mis-interpreting the questions or if they lack content knowledge.

 

 

We did a packet before the test and there were some problems that they didn't understand but I thought they would do okay. It can't be that much new material? I am just thinking that maybe even though they are scoring well at home that it's not sticking or that they are not really understanding it.

[mommyshanti]

I think TT is pretty behind 1-2 years grade level of public schools but as homeschoolers we have the luxury of not teaching to the test and working at our own child's level. I thought I read something that you only have to score so much(a very low number) to be within their passing limit. So if you don't care what the test score is and they are doing well on TT I wouldn't stress it. We did MM loosely the last half of last year and I thought it was pretty right on w/ the CAT (he scored on level testing in the middle of the year w/o MM) but that was only 2nd grade so we will see for this year:)

[Arcadia]

We did a packet before the test and there were some problems that they didn't understand but I thought they would do okay. It can't be that much new material? .

 

I looked at the Teaching Textbook 4th grade table of contents and TT does not look lacking compare to california standards.

 

My guess is that your children are not used to the way the questions are phrased in the Star testing. I have a kid who over-analyzed questions and his teacher won't be surprise if he bombed the state tests. I don't know how he did as I haven't received his results yet.

[Beth in SW WA]

If you basically like TT, I would use a few of the Math Mammoth single-topic "blue" worktexts to get them caught up on the most important topics and then skip them into the next grade level of TT.

 

:iagree:

I use TT 'ahead' along with other 'conceptual' resources. MM is ideal for price & ease of use.

[Pen]

We did a packet before the test and there were some problems that they didn't understand but I thought they would do okay. It can't be that much new material? I am just thinking that maybe even though they are scoring well at home that it's not sticking or that they are not really understanding it.

 

Try to find some way to determine if not sticking or not understanding is an issue, or maybe both could be. Perhaps things available online for determining placement into other curricula could be used, or you could make up questions of your own.

 

There are several possibilities for what happened--that TT runs behind, or that they did not understand how to do the stdzd. testing, or not understanding...of these the last seems the most significant to remedy if it is a problem. If not that, then you can decide whether you want to try to move them along faster whether in TT or something else, or stick with things as they are.

 

It might also help to discuss it with the children themselves, that is, what they feel they understand, whether they want to move faster (quite aside from the test results) etc.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Pen

[thebacabunch]

One of the problems with standardized testing is the weird way the questions are phrased. I would try a different assesment. My kid goes up and down in the state testing every year. I think the state tests should be used as toilet paper myself.

[shinyhappypeople]

I feel your pain. :grouphug: Stay the course with TT (curriculum hopping will do more harm than good - btdt) and add in Study Island for test prep.

[CatholicMom]

I say who cares, unless you actually have to turn in test results or something. If they are doing well, it will all get learned and it doesn't matter if they know it now or 9 months from now, does it? If we were talking years behind I would worry. But I don't think TT's grade levels are that "behind." This talk always drives me crazy and I would like to see some proof somewhere that it's even true (not saying you, just in general because I hear it a lot). It *seems* to me so far that it contains a lot of review so the child can start at any level and not be screwed, no matter which curriculum they are coming from. It makes total sense to me. I think it generally covers multiplication in 3rd and long division toward the end of 4th. That's exactly what I did in public school when I was a kid. *shrug*

 

So I say don't sweat it unless you need to turn in results, in which case I would just grab a workbook or print out some worksheets to cover those specific areas that you know TT isn't going to cover for a while. Standardized tests really don't tell you how well your child is learning; It only compares what your kid currently knows to what PS kids currently know which doesn't necessarily matter as long as you know you're on track for what you're doing.

[Ellie]

My vote would be to stay with TT.

 

I'm not convinced that it runs a year behind, regardless of how your dc tested. There have been way too many people right here on TWTM forum whose dc have done exceedingly well with it for me to think it's behind anything else.

 

If this is the first year you've done TT, and your dc were already behind where they should have been, it just might take another year for them to catch up.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Did your children try the Star testing released test questions for math? That might give you a better idea if they are mis-interpreting the questions or if they lack content knowledge.

 

 

I am about to look through these but a question-- are these intended for a 5th grader to pass at the beginning of the year, mid year or end of year? (Not sure when this testing is done- I know in Mi the testing was at the beginning of the year for some reason) Now off to check it out!

 

 

ETA: Ok, guess that is why I should LOOK before asking questions! I thought this was a sample test :lol: Disregard this! It has been a CRAZY week.

[Ellie]

My kids bombed in Math on their state test. We have been using TT for the past year and are using it again this year. I knew they were behind in math but I thought they would score better.

Which "state test" are you referring to? Are you enrolled with a public school ISP/charter? If not, it doesn't matter how your dc did on standardized testing. If so, what will does your facilator say?

[NittanyJen]

In the long run, I would be more concerned if you took the same test in a SECOND year and saw little to no improvement.

 

If you take the same test next year and have excellent improvement year to year, you may be fine. Not every kid is going to score in the 90th centile, or it wouldn't be the 90th centile.

 

Did you get information on what specific types of questions were perhaps clustered as being answered incorrectly? That would let you know if there was specific remediation to do somewhere (including, as some have suggested, just more familiarity with the wonky way some tests ask the questions).

 

You grade their work, I assume. How do you feel, on a daily basis, that they understand the material?

[fourcatmom]

I don't put a lot of stalk in the test in general but these scores were lower then they have ever gotten. It just makes me want to take a step back and evaluate what we are doing and make sure that is how I want to continue or I will change things up. I am just a little surprised that they scored as low as they did. They like TT, like I said. The one thing that has happened last year is that my 11 yo begs me to let her listen to music while she does math. I want to tell her no because I don't believe she should and I think it's distracting. For her, it seems to be calming because she gets a perfect score each time I allow it. Even the yo child scored poorly. So, maybe if she had music during the test she would have scored better. I don't know.

 

The "teacher" does not feel that TT is enough and likes the more "PS" type math. I hate the PS type math so if we are going to change then we will have to compromise. By this I mean Scott Foresman or some other text book math.

 

They scored great in LA and I didn't think we spent that much time on it last year, so can't really make sense of that either other then LA comes more naturally to them then math does.

[LunaLee]

I think the math portion of that test is worthless (I think the whole thing is worthless, and I've analyzed results that just don't make sense or add up, but that's another story). I've known too many kids who use "excellent" math programs including Saxon and the state recommened texts, get A's & B's in class and on work, and then bomb that test. Take it with a grain of salt. You know where your kids are and you know what they can do. The only purpose that test serves is to compare your children to others in the state, which I'm pretty sure is the opposite to why most of us homeschool. I know you have to take it and I get that, just don't put too much stock in it. Plus, I feel if they really wanted us to take those scores into account into what we teach, then they should make the test results available much sooner than August or September, but I digress...

 

As a pp said, switching programs does more harm than good. If you feel like this program is working then stick with it. Don't let your CT bully you into using something you don't want. If you feel like you need to switch to a more traditional text then I would recommend Prentice Hall over Scott Foresman any day.

[Ellie]

I don't put a lot of stalk in the test in general but these scores were lower then they have ever gotten. It just makes me want to take a step back and evaluate what we are doing and make sure that is how I want to continue or I will change things up. I am just a little surprised that they scored as low as they did. They like TT, like I said. The one thing that has happened last year is that my 11 yo begs me to let her listen to music while she does math. I want to tell her no because I don't believe she should and I think it's distracting. For her, it seems to be calming because she gets a perfect score each time I allow it. Even the yo child scored poorly. So, maybe if she had music during the test she would have scored better. I don't know.

 

The "teacher" does not feel that TT is enough and likes the more "PS" type math. I hate the PS type math so if we are going to change then we will have to compromise. By this I mean Scott Foresman or some other text book math.

 

They scored great in LA and I didn't think we spent that much time on it last year, so can't really make sense of that either other then LA comes more naturally to them then math does.

Well, I was especially curious as to what you meant by "state testing," as California only requires "state" testing (STAR--Standardized Testing and Reporting) for public school children, including those enrolled in home-based ISPs or charter schools; private school students, which includes homeschoolers, are not required to take the state test, or any other test, for that matter; those parents who do test tend to use tests such as the Stanford, ITBS, or CAT. There may be some Californians reading this who might be confused. :-)

 

At any rate, will your facilitator *require* you to change? Was last year the first time you did TT?

 

And FTR, we did Scott Foresman once, many years ago, and I'd rather stick a hot poker in my eyeball than have to use it again. Of course, it is probable that it has been revised at least once since then, but still...

[mathnmusic]

If it were my child, I would add in some practice pages of Math Mammoth to strengthen their weak areas, before going on. I like that MM has explanations built right on the top of the page, so that the child can read it and do the work himself, or a parent can refer to the explanations and go over it with the child.

 

It's easy to say that the math test result doesn't matter. But to me, the test is a way to assess a child's understanding in a standardized way. We all know our kids are special, but when they get out in the world, they're going to be treated just like everybody else, and I'd like them to be prepared for whatever comes their way, as prepared as any of their peers (and hopefully even better). In these early grades, it's much easier to remediate weak spots than in the later grades.

[fourcatmom]

Well, I was especially curious as to what you meant by "state testing," as California only requires "state" testing (STAR--Standardized Testing and Reporting) for public school children, including those enrolled in home-based ISPs or charter schools; private school students, which includes homeschoolers, are not required to take the state test, or any other test, for that matter; those parents who do test tend to use tests such as the Stanford, ITBS, or CAT. There may be some Californians reading this who might be confused. :-)

 

At any rate, will your facilitator *require* you to change? Was last year the first time you did TT?

 

And FTR, we did Scott Foresman once, many years ago, and I'd rather stick a hot poker in my eyeball than have to use it again. Of course, it is probable that it has been revised at least once since then, but still...

 

Yes, they take the STAR test. No, I don't believe she can require me to change if I feel strongly that they stay with TT but she might want some additional stuff for them to do. Yes, last year was the first year with TT and in PS and the first year of HSing they tested very well. I guess that's why I am thinking about whether I want to continue. I really don't put a lot of stock in these test either but when the girls have always scored proficient or advanced and then suddenly dive bomb into below basic, it makes me question if the program is really helping? Like the pp said, I would rather fix or change now rather then have a bigger problem later. If they had always scored poorly at test then that would be different.

Edited September 20, 2012 by fourcatmom

[caroljenn]

I would try ALEKS if you can. My fifteen year old just started a two month free trial with them, looking for holes and ALEKS found plenty! Don't know how many dc you have, but it is 19.95 per month per child. Maybe you can have one child do the free trial and pay for another child? The two months may be all you need to see where the holes are and catch up.

[Hunter]

Low test sores can be because of a lot of things. Sometimes it is useful information and sometimes it can lead us badly badly badly astray. Is there some sort of other math evaluation you could have the children take? To compare results?

 

The most important thing about a math program is if it is capable of being used. "Better" curricula that is more than can be handled by teacher and/or student is sure to fail long term.

 

Some students score higher with narrower curricula, than wider ones. Better to master few priority topics than to be introduced to more less important topics. I am far more interested in the width of a curriculum than it's rigor. The more a student struggles, the more I choose to narrow the scope of topics.

 

I'm not familiar with TT, but I'd be slow to jump ship.

 

You say your daughter is 11. Often at this age, students are starting to get less sleep and to be using technology late into the evening. Sleep deprivation sucks the life out of students. I strongly believe in a media/technology curfew at the very least, if parents are not comfortable insisting on an early lights out.

 

Are you instructing less now?

 

If there is a problem, it may have less to do with the curriculum you are using or even math. It may be about some changes that have taken place as your daughter ages. Rules change. The way we interact with our children changes. Their friends and influences change.

 

Also as we move through middle school we start adding in more and more subjects and adding more and more textbooks. Students start pacing themselves, and the slow down is fairly even. They don't prioritize. They give the same semi-slow attention to math as literature. Sometimes backing off the nonessentials will bring back up core subject scores.

[Crimson Wife]

Yes, they take the STAR test. No, I don't believe she can require me to change if I feel strongly that they stay with TT but she might want some additional stuff for them to do. Yes, last year was the first year with TT and in PS and the first year of HSing they tested very well. I guess that's why I am thinking about whether I want to continue. I really don't put a lot of stock in these test either but when the girls have always scored proficient or advanced and then suddenly dive bomb into below basic, it makes me question if the program is really helping? Like the pp said, I would rather fix or change now rather then have a bigger problem later. If they had always scored poorly at test then that would be different.

 

I would definitely try to plug holes with MM then skip ahead to the next level of TT. Going from proficient/advanced down to below basic would be a big red flag for me personally. Plus I've heard through the grapevine that charters really get on the case of families whose kids don't pass the STAR test (because the schools are worried about losing their charters over low test scores). They seem particularly likely to do so with your family because the low test score isn't reflective of a LD or general low cognitive ability.

[mommyshanti]

Did TT cover what was on the test? That is an easy way to know if TT is actually behind or if they just did not do well on the test becasue of wording,stress,whatever. But either way I wouldn't skip them ahead just to test well. We have to provide proof of progress at the end of the year here in VA. That is done by either a standardized test or evaluation interview(never did that) so that is the only test we take.

[mommyshanti]

Is TT behind? I think a lot of people believe that is it because pre-test have them in 1-2 grades above their age/school grade level. Also if you have to test in your state, if TT doesn't go over what is on the test then that might prove it is behind. That's not to say I think it matters as I'm not teaching to the test and trying to do what is best for my child, but if you are working w/ a ps it might be different.

[Ellie]

Yes, they take the STAR test. No, I don't believe she can require me to change if I feel strongly that they stay with TT but she might want some additional stuff for them to do. Yes, last year was the first year with TT and in PS and the first year of HSing they tested very well. I guess that's why I am thinking about whether I want to continue. I really don't put a lot of stock in these test either but when the girls have always scored proficient or advanced and then suddenly dive bomb into below basic, it makes me question if the program is really helping? Like the pp said, I would rather fix or change now rather then have a bigger problem later. If they had always scored poorly at test then that would be different.

I know it seems weird that they tested so low, and I'm not trying to talk you into anything you don't really want to do. :) It is just that there have been so many, many wonderful reviews here on TWTM about TT, and that it isn't unusual for your dc's kind of results when using almost any product/method the first year. Do your dc *like* TT? That's important. And are there extra drills or practice sets in TT that they could do? Is there a specific area on the test that they bombed? Do you know if TT covers that specific area next year?

[Nart]

I just looked at the TT placement test vs. the Math Mammoth placement test for the beginning of 5th grade (the MM one is for the end of 4th grade before entering 5th, and the TT is for placement before starting 5th - that is why one says 4 and one says 5) and Math Mammoth looks much more like the questions they have on the STAR test.

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/preview/tests/End_of_Year_Test_Grade4.pdf

 

http://184.168.83.81/Diagnostic/Math5.pdf

 

Looking at just the placement test for TT, I don't see how a child could be prepared for STAR testing because the problems are set up much differently. The word problems are very straightforward in TT -they can be solved in one step. Have you looked into supplementing TT with Math Mammoth or some other program?

 

I would administer the placement test for both programs to see how they do with each program.

[Princess Peach]

OP, this is what I did last year, FWIW. Actually, going back 2 years ago, DS13 did TT7 in 6th grade because that is where he placed. (Did you have your children take the placement test?) Then he did TT Pre-Alg last year in 7th grade.

 

About midway thru the year, we had a pretty good inkling that he would go into PS for 8th grade, so I just got a basic Spectrum Test Prep book and he did that for a few months a little at a time. I'm not sure if it covered information that was not covered in TT, but it did give him practice as to how questions would be asked on the standardized test. He tested very well and he was able to test into Algebra in 8th grade.

 

All that to say, I would not change curricula, but I would get a test prep book so your children can get used to the format. I would also make very sure you have placed them correctly.

[Kathryn]

Yes, they take the STAR test. No, I don't believe she can require me to change if I feel strongly that they stay with TT but she might want some additional stuff for them to do. Yes, last year was the first year with TT and in PS and the first year of HSing they tested very well. I guess that's why I am thinking about whether I want to continue. I really don't put a lot of stock in these test either but when the girls have always scored proficient or advanced and then suddenly dive bomb into below basic, it makes me question if the program is really helping? Like the pp said, I would rather fix or change now rather then have a bigger problem later. If they had always scored poorly at test then that would be different.

 

Given this information, I'd personally ditch TT. Whether or not it's a "good" program according to WTMers doesn't matter if it's causing your children to slide backwards.

[2squared]

This doesn't help you today, but thought I would put it out there for later. I go over the standardized tests to see what my dc answered correctly & incorrectly. Using it as a diagnostic tool helps me determine if I truly have gaps and how to attack them.

 

For instance, one part of the ITBS is a timed math test. In 3rd grade, my dd answered every question correctly that she attempted. She had a horrible score b/c she didn't move fast enough. No big surprise for my perfectionist, but it was a helpful kick in the butt for me to push her past those issues in this skill area.

[nukeswife]

Given this information, I'd personally ditch TT. Whether or not it's a "good" program according to WTMers doesn't matter if it's causing your children to slide backwards.

 

Yes, but a lot of the "Slide backwards" can simply be because of the wording on the STAR test, not because of TT. My kids are using TT on grade level (I'm not one that thinks it's "Behind") and have passed the ITBS and CAT with flying colors for the past 3 years.

 

So you really have to figure out if it's the math program or the state test that is causing the confusion. I wouldn't be so quick to ditch a math curriculum until I knew for sure that my kids bombed the test because of actual lack of understanding of the material taught.

[Crimson Wife]

This doesn't help you today, but thought I would put it out there for later. I go over the standardized tests to see what my dc answered correctly & incorrectly. Using it as a diagnostic tool helps me determine if I truly have gaps and how to attack them.

 

Unfortunately, the STAR results are supremely unhelpful in this regard. They will tell you, for example, that your child answered X number of questions on a general topic ("number operatons", "measurement and geometry", "algebraic reasoning") correctly but not how many questions there were in the section nor how many questions were left unanswered vs. answered incorrectly. Having seen both the ITBS score report (back when we HS under the private school affidavit option) and the STAR report, it's like day and night how much more useful the ITBS results are.

[Kathryn]

Yes, but a lot of the "Slide backwards" can simply be because of the wording on the STAR test, not because of TT. My kids are using TT on grade level (I'm not one that thinks it's "Behind") and have passed the ITBS and CAT with flying colors for the past 3 years.

 

So you really have to figure out if it's the math program or the state test that is causing the confusion. I wouldn't be so quick to ditch a math curriculum until I knew for sure that my kids bombed the test because of actual lack of understanding of the material taught.

 

But, from my understanding, they've done very well on the same test in the past, and only after a year of using TT did poorly.

 

And again, I'm making no judgment on TT, but just because it works for some kids, doesn't mean it works for all.

[fourcatmom]

But, from my understanding, they've done very well on the same test in the past, and only after a year of using TT did poorly.

 

And again, I'm making no judgment on TT, but just because it works for some kids, doesn't mean it works for all.

 

This is where I am coming from. They have taken this test before. My yo one had taken it twice before and my 11 yo had taken it 3 times scoring very well. They know the test.

[fourcatmom]

Just wanted to say thank you everyone for the advice, gives me lots to consider before I make a decision. I appreciate the feedback!

[Arcadia]

This is where I am coming from. They have taken this test before. My yo one had taken it twice before and my 11 yo had taken it 3 times scoring very well. They know the test.

 

I will be free later today to go over the Star 4th & 5th grade released questions and check how they correspond to my older boy's K12 math and Singapore Math (california edition) curriculum. My older one has completed both curriculum.

 

If you still have the copy of which questions your children have problem with, I could also look over and see if it is a "wording" issue.

[nukeswife]

But, from my understanding, they've done very well on the same test in the past, and only after a year of using TT did poorly.

 

And again, I'm making no judgment on TT, but just because it works for some kids, doesn't mean it works for all.

 

Yes, I understand that, but each years test doesn't have the same exact questions. Maybe it's the new concepts of that grades math they are having problems with. I know when my oldest started really working with fractions everything went to pot, it's like he didn't know anything anymore because he was so frustrated about the fraction work.

 

I guess I'm just saying I wouldn't discount a whole curriculum over one bad test score which is really all this is.

[Kathryn]

Yes, I understand that, but each years test doesn't have the same exact questions. Maybe it's the new concepts of that grades math they are having problems with. I know when my oldest started really working with fractions everything went to pot, it's like he didn't know anything anymore because he was so frustrated about the fraction work.

 

I guess I'm just saying I wouldn't discount a whole curriculum over one bad test score which is really all this is.

 

I get that, but in this situation, you have TWO children working at two DIFFERENT levels who BOTH did WELL on the test in multiple previous years and after one year of using a new curriculum, BOTH did POORLY.

[shinyhappypeople]

But, from my understanding, they've done very well on the same test in the past, and only after a year of using TT did poorly.

 

And again, I'm making no judgment on TT, but just because it works for some kids, doesn't mean it works for all.

 

I have a friend whose child moved into the proficient range on the STAR after using TT, but she did this by having her child move through 2 levels of TT in 1 school year. I think in CA it's best to work one grade level ahead on TT if you're with a charter.

[mommy5]

My son used Singapore 1A & 1B this past year and when got finished I switched to CLE. He happened to score very high in math ... I will say that he is probably more math minded than LA,. I do love CLE math, though, it seems to be helping with him -- it has built his confidence (he didn't love math until we switched to that program and something just clicked). We have not tried TT although we've considered it and decided to stick with CLE.

[2squared]

Unfortunately, the STAR results are supremely unhelpful in this regard. They will tell you, for example, that your child answered X number of questions on a general topic ("number operatons", "measurement and geometry", "algebraic reasoning") correctly but not how many questions there were in the section nor how many questions were left unanswered vs. answered incorrectly. Having seen both the ITBS score report (back when we HS under the private school affidavit option) and the STAR report, it's like day and night how much more useful the ITBS results are.

 

Maybe my meaning wasn't clear. My kids takes the test. I look at the questions & her answers that same day to evaluate how she did. My evaluation happens before the test leaves my house. The ITBS reports are OK, but they don't provide any nitty-gritty useful information. The only truly useful information I receive from the tests are what I get immediately after my kids are done taking them.

[shinyhappypeople]

Maybe my meaning wasn't clear. My kids takes the test. I look at the questions & her answers that same day to evaluate how she did. My evaluation happens before the test leaves my house. The ITBS reports are OK, but they don't provide any nitty-gritty useful information. The only truly useful information I receive from the tests are what I get immediately after my kids are done taking them.

 

The tests are taken in a classroom environment, proctored by staff at the charter. Parents never see the actual tests. :(

[Crimson Wife]

Maybe my meaning wasn't clear. My kids takes the test. I look at the questions & her answers that same day to evaluate how she did. My evaluation happens before the test leaves my house. The ITBS reports are OK, but they don't provide any nitty-gritty useful information. The only truly useful information I receive from the tests are what I get immediately after my kids are done taking them.

 

The STAR tests are given at a location that the charter rents out and parents are not allowed in the room while testing is in session. All booklets are collected at the end of each testing session and returned to the state dept. of ed.

 

The reports that I get 4-5 months later are so non-informative as to be pretty much useless. The ITBS at least gives a breakdown by topic, so I know which areas to work on (fractions, division, etc.) The STAR just says "number operations", which is FAR too vague to be of any use.

[Tidbits of Learning]

My kids bombed in Math on their state test. We have been using TT for the past year and are using it again this year. I knew they were behind in math but I thought they would score better.

 

Do I stay with TT that runs a year behind or try to introduce something new?

Any suggestions, they do well on their daily lessons normally scoring between 90 and 100% so I am sure it's just that they are running a year behind not so much not understanding what they are learning. If that makes any sense at all?

 

If my child had always done well or advanced on the test, then yes I would be reevaluating TT. I will tell you that we went from traditional homeschoolers to virtual schoolers with a charter this year. I found that TT wasn't up to par in scope and sequence for the state test. My 4th grader who did TT3 last year in 3rd scored below 3rd grade level on his math test. Yikes! They are letting him stay in 4th grade math, but it is a big struggle. My then 5th and 6th graders used TT6 and TT7 last year and just barely scored on grade level for the school. The TT that lines up in scope and sequence to our new 4th grade math with k12 is TT6. So TT6 is the equivalent of my son's 4th grade math this year. That was eye opening.

I would either find a scope and sequence for math in your state that the test is based off and then find the TT grade level that lines up with that scope and sequence or I would look into a different math. I don't think spectrum tests will help to a certain extent as you aren't taking the CAT or ITBS. Maybe pick up a STAR test prep book at your local teacher's store. You are taking your state test which assumes you are following the state's scope and sequence.

My son did get a lot from TT. My daughters did as well. It just wasn't as much as their peers got in terms of scope and sequence. So they weren't prepared for the test as well as their peers.

Knowing what I know now, if we were still picking our own math textbooks...then I would not choose Teaching Textbooks as our main math program.

[SweetandSimple]

We used Math Mammoth 3 and parts of Math Mammoth 4 (in order to meet CA state standards) last year. Then we used Study Island to identify gaps/ things to review. My son is fairly good at math, but not "mathy," and he scored at the top of the advanced range. Now, MM is a good program, but Study Island showed us where there were gaps. It was a winning combo for us.

 

However, this year, I needed something more independent, so we switched to TT for 4th grade math-- but we're using Level 6. I really don't think that TT used on grade level will meet the standards well enough for good STAR scores. One level ahead, maybe. I felt better about going up 2 levels based on what we studied last year. The CA math standards really are higher than many other states.

 

When Common Core gets implemented, things will really change. For better or for worse, at least more curricula will be developed to meet those standards, and it won't be so hard on CA parents trying to use traditional homeschool math programs.

[Spy Car]

 

When Common Core gets implemented, things will really change. For better or for worse, at least more curricula will be developed to meet those standards, and it won't be so hard on CA parents trying to use traditional homeschool math programs.

 

I would say for the worse, as the current CA Math Standards are higher than the Common Core standards, so this is a step backwards.

 

Bill

[fourcatmom]

I didn't realize this thread was still going....I was out all day today. I did speak with their CT who advised that we just try to add more math to what they already do. She said the Charter has had these experiences with TT in the past. They had a class that they taught by instructors who went through the material and many of the kids ended up testing poorly. Obviously on this board and elsewhere others have had good experiences.

 

I want to just make it clear that I do not really care about what the test says but it is one gauge that I use to see how their doing in certain areas. It is one component that I look at but considering they have taken these tests before, done well and then both failed miserabley after a year of TT, I have to evaluate whether it makes sense to continue. There may be many reasons why this happened but my main concern is that they understand Math and feel confident in math. They did not like their scores either, they were very disappointed about it. They want to do well. The thing I love about TT is that it is independent but because of that I feel that I have a limited understanding of what they are learning and where they are getting stuck. There is no work to check, it's all on the computer. Maybe it falls on me and I need to be doing more. That's why I am asking these questions so I can figure it out. I like TT, they like TT and I am not trying to blame it on TT.

 

And no I don't have the actual test, they took it at a location rented by the charter. They took the test back in April and I just got the results.

 

Thanks again everyone for their information.

[WIS0320]

My kid is 45 lessons into TT 3 and it is "behind" Singapore 2 A so far. I really think the scope and sequence is way off.

[Nart]

I would say for the worse, as the current CA Math Standards are higher than the Common Core standards, so this is a step backwards.

 

Bill

 

I need a "I disagree" sign. There is an emphasis on composing and decomposing numbers in the Common Core that is lacking in the California Standards. California standards have an emphasis in estimation that is ridiculous. For example in kindergarten CA has a standard that says :"Students use estimation strategies in computation and problem solving that involve numbers that use tens and ones places." CC has critical standards that are not in the Ca standards such as in kinder "for any number 1 to 9, find the number that makes 10 when added to the given number."

 

Here is a link with the exact comparison grade by grade (it is 235 pages long):

 

http://www.scoe.net/castandards/multimedia/k-12_math_crosswalks.pdf

[NittanyJen]

So They're copying Singapore (making tens)? Though Singapore both estimates and makes tens. Both are quite useful. I teach my kids to do a quick estimate as a means to spot-check that their answers are at least in the ballpark, or for out in the world when the need a ballpark number quickly. Estimation can be quite useful.

 

I started reading the Common Core standards for "social studies/history" and I wanted to cry (not in a good way) because it jumps around so much and so illogically within each year. But that's a different thread.

 

Such a nice idea, theoretically, but....