What is black? How do they define it for scholarships?

[Plucky]

Okay, I was thinking about the guy my dd is hanging out with a lot now. He's very cute and sweet and since he is black I was thinking about all the great scholarships he could get. My mind is constantly focused on that anymore.

 

Then I was thinking that if my dd and he married how cute their kids would be. His dad is half-black and mom is white and so while he is very light skinned and caucasian looking he definitely looks black. No big deal right? But then I remembered a friend we have. He's the same race mixture and he married a blonde. He has blue-eyed, blonde kids. Are his kids considered black for scholarships? They are black but don't look like it.

Edited August 25, 2012 by True Blue

[brandigirl]

wow lots of thinking going on. :lol:

 

His kids are not black but they are of mixed race I think the way that works is its the dominant portion. Like I have a great grandfather who was French but that does not mean I am french KWIM?

[Pamela H in Texas]

From timwise.org:

only 3.5 percent of college students of color receive any scholarship even partly based on race, suggesting that such programs remain a pathetically small piece of the financial aid picture

[Plucky]

wow lots of thinking going on. :lol:

 

His kids are not black but they are of mixed race I think the way that works is its the dominant portion. Like I have a great grandfather who was French but that does not mean I am french KWIM?

 

Up late with a kiddo so I just woke up! :lol:

 

So how dominant? Is it based purely on looks?

[Plucky]

From timwise.org:only 3.5 percent of college students of color receive any scholarship even partly based on race, suggesting that such programs remain a pathetically small piece of the financial aid picture

 

Really? I didn't know that.

[brandigirl]

If your mom had Black on her birth certificate and your dad did also but you come out light your still black. This is confusing besides there is not much out there as far as financial aid.

 

what do you think they did?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123050/Look-The-black-white-twins-turn-seven.html

[Pamela H in Texas]

I wonder what the chances are that anyone would ask you to prove your race.

I'd guess you can pretty much claim whatever you'd like. Can you imagine the conversation?

[krisperry]

My husband is black and I'm white. Maybe the wording of the scholarship would determine how I'd view my kids and what they are eligible for? Not sure.

 

OTOH, we did have a "one-drop" law. It is a law adopted by most states less than 100 years ago. Rule unconstitutional in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. More information here:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

 

http://blackhistory.com/content/63228/one-drop-rule

 

Interesting topic.

[justamouse]

I have friends who could qualify, but are SO white, blonde haired, blue eyed, Norwegian looking that they don't even bother. But, their grandfather was AA. Matter of fact, the maternal last name is Black.

 

And, their father is Cherokee, but again...

[Plucky]

If your mom had Black on her birth certificate and your dad did also but you come out light your still black. This is confusing besides there is not much out there as far as financial aid.

 

what do you think they did?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123050/Look-The-black-white-twins-turn-seven.html

 

I remember that story. So amazing. I didn't know about the fin. aid issues, but I do know that when it comes to acceptance rates at certain prestigious colleges it can sometimes be an asset.

[Plucky]

I wonder what the chances are that anyone would ask you to prove your race.

I'd guess you can pretty much claim whatever you'd like. Can you imagine the conversation?

 

No, but I would guess that a recipient of a scholarship reserved for blacks that showed up blonde would be questioned a little. People do try to fraud the system.

[Mommyfaithe]

If your mom had Black on her birth certificate and your dad did also but you come out light your still black. This is confusing besides there is not much out there as far as financial aid.

 

what do you think they did?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123050/Look-The-black-white-twins-turn-seven.html

 

These kids are GORGEOUS!!! wow....

[Plucky]

My husband is black and I'm white. Maybe the wording of the scholarship would determine how I'd view my kids and what they are eligible for? Not sure.

 

OTOH, we did have a "one-drop" law. It is a law adopted by most states less than 100 years ago. Rule unconstitutional in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. More information here:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

 

http://blackhistory.com/content/63228/one-drop-rule

 

Interesting topic.

 

Can you imagine? In that case most of us are black. From what I've been told there is a black person somewhere far away in my lineage. I don't know. I'm more Irish and Native American. I am also the brown-eyed brunette in a sea of blonde blue-eyed cousins and I have 3 blondes and 2 with blue eyes. Genetics are fascinating.

[Plucky]

These kids are GORGEOUS!!! wow....

 

Aren't they? Those little toddler pics make me want to kiss their little cheeks.

[LucyStoner]

There are fewer scholarships based on ethnicity than you might think.

 

I look at it like this:

 

I have a nephew who has a black father (my older, biracial brother) and a white mother. He is very light, people do not always perceive him as black though certainly get rude with the "WHAT are you questions" because he looks way different than his siblings his mother later had with her white husband. My brother has two other kids with his wife, a woman with mostly Puerto Rican background, my niece and nephew. They get perceived as black most of the time. I would say that all three have experienced the world being viewed as non-white. I would reckon they could all apply for scholarships open to AAs. Their experiences have been shaped based on them being percieved as non-white.

 

Oth, my mother's mother was part NA and her dad was 1/2 Lakota. She definitely had NA features but was light skinned with red hair and green eyes. I have a white dad and look very white. My experience in the world is not shaped in the least by being percieved as non-white. I refused to take scholarships that I would have only been eligible for if I was minority or NA. It would be preposterous for me to claim a connection only to benefit me.

Edited August 25, 2012 by kijipt

[Plucky]

I have friends who could qualify, but are SO white, blonde haired, blue eyed, Norwegian looking that they don't even bother. But, their grandfather was AA. Matter of fact, the maternal last name is Black.

 

And, their father is Cherokee, but again...

 

Right. I don't think I'd claim it either. But what about a person that looks white and is black but lived a less advantageous life and perhaps their parents and their races did have some impact on their opportunities?

 

We also have friends that are Hispanic. They are much better off than most people I know and they look as Hispanic as I do and I'm not Hispanic. They also have a Hispanic last name.

[Plucky]

There are fewer scholarships based on ethnicity than you might think.

 

I look at it like this:

 

I have a nephew who has a black father (my older, biracial brother) and a white mother. He is very light, people do not always perceive him as black though certainly get rude with the "WHAT are you questions" because he looks way different than his siblings his mother later had with her white husband. My brother has two other kids with his wife, a woman with mostly Puerto Rican background, my niece and nephew. They get perceived as black most of the time. I would say that all three have experienced the world being viewed as non-white. I would reckon they could all apply for scholarships open to AAs. Their experiences have been shaped based on them being percieved as non-white.

 

Oth, my mother's mother was part NA and her dad was 1/2 Lakota. She definitely had NA features but was light skinned with red hair and green eyes. I have a white dad and look very white. My experience in the world is not shaped in the least by being percieved as non-white. I refused to take scholarships that I would have only been eligible for if I was minority or NA. It would be preposterous for me to claim a connection only to benefit me.

 

Sounds smart. Would you use it for anything? What about getting into a more distinguished university?

[Sahamamama]

Good question. I married an Egyptian (born in US, raised in US). As we all know, Egypt is a country on the continent of Africa, so technically I married an African-American. ;) Is he black? Is there "black blood" in there somewhere? Who knows? Who cares? Our children are beautiful and smart. :D My father-in-law, who has studied genetics, calls it "hybrid vigor."

 

When the time comes for the girls to put down a race on a scholarship application, they will probably check off "Other" or "Caucasian" or "African-American," depending on where the dollars are. :tongue_smilie: How's that for blatant money-grubbing?

[Plucky]

Good question. I married an Egyptian (born in US, raised in US). As we all know, Egypt is a country on the continent of Africa, so technically I married an African-American. ;) Is he black? Is there "black blood" in there somewhere? Who knows? Who cares? Our children are beautiful and smart. :D My father-in-law, who has studied genetics, calls it "hybrid vigor."

 

When the time comes for the girls to put down a race on a scholarship application, they will probably check off "Other" or "Caucasian" or "African-American," depending on where the dollars are. :tongue_smilie: How's that for blatant money-grubbing?

 

I like that: hybrid vigor. :D

[Amirah]

same with my son i am black ( african american) and my husband is from Algeria( which is north africa and he is canadian) he is light skinned and looks arab. my son is white with dark brown hair and honey brown eyes. yes he could apply for a scholarship like that even though you would not think he was black if you saw him, unless you knew i was his mom. most of the people i know who used race for scholarships to prestigious schools they got in because they actually look black( some schools like to visually have the diversity not just on technicalities).

[rfoster]

I'm white, my husband is black. We were asked when they were born which race we would like on their birth certificates, and we chose Black. We could have chosen White if we wanted to. While the 'one-drop' rule has been ruled unconstitutional, for the purpose of studies and demographics, generally researchers DO still use the 'one-drop' rule.

 

As far as I have found, there is NOT much, if any, additional scholarships for Black/AA students. The advantage they DO have is that they will have a better chance for acceptance at very competitive universities. From what I have found when I researched, Ivy leagues etc. will accept a black student before a white student if they have the exact same test scores, UNLESS the white student has a very very good hook as opposed to the black student.

 

Don't quote me as I may be wrong, but Native Americans who are member of a Federally Recognized tribe are really the only group that receives race-based scholarships.

[LucyStoner]

Sounds smart. Would you use it for anything? What about getting into a more distinguished university?

 

No. My parents did use it to get me into a magnet school based on affirmative action (since eliminated in my district.) I would not make that choice but I see why my parents wanted to get me in and truth be told I did bring a different background to the school (mostly well off kids, I was dirt poor.) I benefited from that school and was accepted to all the colleges I wanted to go to (despite declining all to take care of family- ended up working through state schools.)

[scrappyhappymama]

My husband is Hispanic of Mexican heritage and I am a very fair Caucasian of Irish and Italian heritage.

 

One of our sons looks just like my husband. Dark eyes, darker skin, brown hair. Spitting image of DH as a boy.

 

Two of our boys are WHITE. Very fair, sunburn easily like me, light brown hair, light eyes. They would never pass as Hispanic.

 

One son is more of a mixture. Features-wise, he looks a lot like my husband. His skin is light, but he tans easily. He has brown hair and green eyes.

 

We don't know yet what camp our baby is in. :) He has very dark hair and dark eyes, but his skin changes colors. Sometimes he looks darker and sometimes he looks very fair.

 

So my boys are all 50% Mexican heritage, but only one, maybe two, would pass as Mexican. They have actually referred to themselves as half Mexican and gotten some weird looks and double takes. I always assumed our children would all have brown eyes and would favor my husband more because of genetic dominance. But now we joke that I obviously have very strong genes. My husband even worries sometimes that folks will think the fairer boys are not his when he is out with them without me, but they hang all over him and call him Papa, so it's pretty obvious they know him.

 

I list the boys as Hispanic on paperwork or Mixed if that is an option. I have often wondered whether folks will be skeptical of their heritage when they are grown. However, my husband refused all throughout college to take advantage of any heritage or race based programs, so it may not even be an issue for my boys. From my perspective, I think folks should take any advantage offered, but my husband feels strongly otherwise.

[Laura Corin]

If your mom had Black on her birth certificate and your dad did also but you come out light your still black. This is confusing besides there is not much out there as far as financial aid.

 

what do you think they did?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123050/Look-The-black-white-twins-turn-seven.html

 

And I've not heard of race-based scholarships in the UK.

 

Laura

[butterflymommy]

I've been meaning to ask this question in all seriousness as I don't know the answer.

 

DH is black (caribbean) hispanic, I am white hispanic. Of our 7 kids only two are obviously ethnic, three look "something..." maybe well tanned from the beach (lol), and two look nordic.

 

DH had his education paid for by minority grants and scholarships. He says he hated taking them but when it came down to attending school or not, he took them. So I know this could really help my kids. But I have to say it would be downright weird for my white looking kids to be getting minority scholarships.

 

On top of this I know hispanic isn't even considered a race... so... :ack2:... I'm confused.

 

Will my kids have to prove they're hispanic? Send in a picture of their dad? Do they just take your word for it? And if so, what's to stop the whole world from saying they're hispanic to get scholarships?

[butterflymommy]

As far as I have found, there is NOT much, if any, additional scholarships for Black/AA students.

 

DH had his entire undergrad paid for by a minority-aimed scholarship and they were paying for his graduate degree when we met. They even paid for him to travel through Europe for 2 semesters. There are definitely programs out there.

[kalanamak]

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123050/Look-The-black-white-twins-turn-seven.html

 

 

How .... Mendelian. Like .... peas in a pod.

[SunnyDays]

Interesting discussion... genetics is just so fascinating. I've traced my lineage, and I'm 100% European. DH's family insists that there's a drop of native american in his history, but what we've found doesn't point that direction... we think it's family legend with no basis :) Even if that were the case, DS is white as white could be and no one would ever venture a guess he's of anything but European ancestry.

[Mabelen]

To all Hispanic families, please remember Hispanic is NOT a race. There are white, black, Asian, Native American and all kinds of mixed race Hispanics. Hispanic implies ethnic heritage not race, even if most Hispanics in the US are of mixed race.

 

For most scholarships your child needs to be at least a quarter Hispanic and to self identify as Hispanic. Personally I think you should only claim Hispanic ancestry if you see yourself at least partly as such. In other words, there should be some personal cultural or emotional connection with this ethnic group and/or community involvement of some sort.

[SKL]

This is all over my head.

 

My daughters are brown. They were born and fostered in Latin America. From around age 1 they've been raised in a home with people of European and Asian ancestry. They spend their Saturdays with a Latina nanny and her extended family/friends. Their neighbors and classmates are diverse.

 

I get irritated with questions about race and ethinicity.

 

I don't like the fact that they could get services or subsidies that are not available to their cousins, just because of skin color.

 

Ultimately they have to make their own decision what to do when they're adults. For now, I leave the questions about race/ethnicity blank. They should not matter.

[butterflymommy]

Forgot to add that there would be a huge advantage to claiming black/ Hispanic status on admissions as SAT standards are much lower for blacks and Hispanics than for whites and Asians in some admissions offices. Off the top of my head I think it was a few hundred point difference in the study that exposed this. So this is no small matter of box checking... unless the system is overhauled DS could really benefit when he starts applying in 2 years.

[Sahamamama]

My husband is Hispanic of Mexican heritage and I am a very fair Caucasian of Irish and Italian heritage.

 

One of our sons looks just like my husband. Dark eyes, darker skin, brown hair. Spitting image of DH as a boy.

 

Two of our boys are WHITE. Very fair, sunburn easily like me, light brown hair, light eyes. They would never pass as Hispanic.

 

One son is more of a mixture. Features-wise, he looks a lot like my husband. His skin is light, but he tans easily. He has brown hair and green eyes.

 

We don't know yet what camp our baby is in. :) He has very dark hair and dark eyes, but his skin changes colors. Sometimes he looks darker and sometimes he looks very fair.

 

This would be my brother-in-law's family. His father was German (blonde hair, blue eyes), his mother Venezuelan (dark hair, dark eyes).

 

BIL is the oldest son: blonde hair, blue eyes, but he sure can get a tan! :D

His youngest brother looks just like the mother: dark hair, dark eyes, dark skin

Middle brother is in the middle: strawberry-brown hair, hazel eyes, medium skin tone.

 

Go figure. Aren't genetics interesting? :001_smile:

[Mandy in TN]

Okay, I was thinking about the guy my dd is hanging out with a lot now. He's very cute and sweet and since he is black I was thinking about all the great scholarships he could get. My mind is constantly focused on that anymore.

 

Then I was thinking that if my dd and he married how cute their kids would be. His dad is half-black and mom is white and so while he is very light skinned and caucasian looking he definitely looks black. No big deal right? But then I remembered a friend we have. He's the same race mixture and he married a blonde. He has blue-eyed, blonde kids. Are his kids considered black for scholarships? They are black but don't look like it.

Individual scholarships can use any determining factors they want. :) So, I bet if you looked you would find all kinds of different guidelines.

 

Mandy

[Sahamamama]

I've been meaning to ask this question in all seriousness as I don't know the answer.

 

DH is black (caribbean) hispanic, I am white hispanic. Of our 7 kids only two are obviously ethnic, three look "something..." maybe well tanned from the beach (lol), and two look nordic.

 

DH had his education paid for by minority grants and scholarships. He says he hated taking them but when it came down to attending school or not, he took them. So I know this could really help my kids. But I have to say it would be downright weird for my white looking kids to be getting minority scholarships.

 

On top of this I know hispanic isn't even considered a race... so... :ack2:... I'm confused.

 

Will my kids have to prove they're hispanic? Send in a picture of their dad? Do they just take your word for it? And if so, what's to stop the whole world from saying they're hispanic to get scholarships?

 

:bigear: I, too, would like to know the answer to this question, if anyone knows it. To look at me, you'd think "Where's the Northern/Western European Mongrel Scholarship Application?" :lol: But my husband never knows what to answer on those insipid race questions. We actually had to laugh once when we saw the options:

 

Caucasian (why is this always listed first?)

Black

Hispanic (any race)

Asian

Pacific Islander

Alaskan Native/Native American

Guamian

 

And we were like, "Guamian?" :001_huh: (No offense to anyone from, in, or facing towards Guam). But there was (and never is) any check off box for "Middle Eastern" or "Arab" or something similar...

 

You know, he doesn't consider himself Black, Caucasian, Asian, or _______? What else is there? He considers himself Middle Eastern/Egyptian. That is not a race? I suppose not, but what is it, exactly? And what race would an Egyptian be? Does that depend on how much of "one and not the other" there is? Where would you even draw the line? His family is from the South of Egypt, but there are people with green/hazel eyes in his family (from the French occupation?). No one knows what's flowing in the DNA here. :lol: FWIW, we now (in protest, I suppose) all answer "Other." Or just leave the dumb question blank.

[SKL]

You know, he doesn't consider himself Black, Caucasian, Asian, or _______? What else is there? He considers himself Middle Eastern/Egyptian. That is not a race? I suppose not, but what is it, exactly? And what race would an Egyptian be? Does that depend on how much of "one and not the other" there is? Where would you even draw the line? His family is from the South of Egypt, but there are people with green/hazel eyes in his family (from the French occupation?). No one knows what's flowing in the DNA here. :lol: FWIW, we now (in protest, I suppose) all answer "Other." Or just leave the dumb question blank.

 

This is where I am with my kids. It just ticks me off when I'm trying to make a doctor appointment and they gotta know if my kids are Hispanic. (Sometimes they ask it twice, under race AND ethnicity.) And I say, how do you define Hispanic? They never know. You'd think if the answer was so important, someone would know what the question meant.

 

The fact is that even if they seem intimidating, you can decline to answer.

 

Can you tell this is a "little" pet peeve of mine?

 

The other pet peeve is that apparently the ONLY "ethnicity" that is important is Hispanic. You're either Hispanic or non-Hispanic, period. :glare:

 

I think I'd better shut up now.

[Mandy in TN]

:bigear: I, too, would like to know the answer to this question, if anyone knows it. To look at me, you'd think "Where's the Northern/Western European Mongrel Scholarship Application?" :lol: But my husband never knows what to answer on those insipid race questions. We actually had to laugh once when we saw the options:

 

Caucasian (why is this always listed first?)

Black

Hispanic (any race)

Asian

Pacific Islander

Alaskan Native/Native American

Guamian

 

And we were like, "Guamian?" :001_huh: (No offense to anyone from, in, or facing towards Guam). But there was (and never is) any check off box for "Middle Eastern" or "Arab" or something similar...

 

You know, he doesn't consider himself Black, Caucasian, Asian, or _______? What else is there? He considers himself Middle Eastern/Egyptian. That is not a race? I suppose not, but what is it, exactly? And what race would an Egyptian be? Does that depend on how much of "one and not the other" there is? Where would you even draw the line? His family is from the South of Egypt, but there are people with green/hazel eyes in his family (from the French occupation?). No one knows what's flowing in the DNA here. :lol: FWIW, we now (in protest, I suppose) all answer "Other." Or just leave the dumb question blank.

The problem is that the question will ask for race and then blatantly include ethnicities.

 

Here is a link to some Arab American Scholarships.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Wheres Toto]

We have a very obviously Hispanic last name. We get phone calls from telemarketers in Spanish all the time. Dh's stepfather, who is Puerto Rican, adopted him as a child. I am the most Hispanic looking person in our house - dark brown hair, hazel eyes (and I'm all Western European mutt). Dh is white hair (previously blonde) blue eyes, ds is blond with blue eyes, youngest dd is blonde with hazel eyes. Oldest dd (not dh's) has red hair with brown eyes (and is 1/4 Italian).

 

I don't ever choose the Hispanic option when filling out forms, although dh did once speculate on whether it would be advantageous in certain situations.

[jennynd]

To all Hispanic families, please remember Hispanic is NOT a race. There are white, black, Asian, Native American and all kinds of mixed race Hispanics. Hispanic implies ethnic heritage not race, even if most Hispanics in the US are of mixed race.

 

For most scholarships your child needs to be at least a quarter Hispanic and to self identify as Hispanic. Personally I think you should only claim Hispanic ancestry if you see yourself at least partly as such. In other words, there should be some personal cultural or emotional connection with this ethnic group and/or community involvement of some sort.

 

Lol,,, so my kids should pass as Hispanic? They are white and Asian. I will love some scholarship

[Cricket]

Just to make it more interesting, my parents knew people in the bayous of Louisiana who were "blacker" than any "black" person they knew but were listed as Caucasian on their birth certificates. And they would proudly get them out to show you! I'll have to ask her again what the particulars were. Seems like in that parish you would write down whatever you wanted for race or maybe it was specific to a certain hospital.

 

I know some people find it offensive so I DON'T ask, but so many times I want to ask a person about their heritage. I find all of that so interesting!!! Maybe because I find our own family history and heritage fascinating. But I mind my own business! :D

[Bassoonaroo]

Interesting thread. DH and I are ... well, simply white. As far back as we can go (and it's not really that far, but several generations), all we see is European white. Sort of boring.

 

DD is looking for scholarships and is a bit dismayed at all the scholarships she's seen for whatever nationality/race/ethnicity. Duh... She told me that she read on facebook that her cousin (my niece) got a sizeable scholarship for simply being Hispanic. Oh, yea, I forgot, DBro married a Hispanic gal. I guess I knew that but over the years, you sort of forget because she's just one of us but with dark hair and nice olive skin. And this cousin/niece is the cutest blue-eyed blonde. Go figure.

 

Oh well.

[SunnyDays]

Interesting thread. DH and I are ... well, simply white. As far back as we can go (and it's not really that far, but several generations), all we see is European white. Sort of boring.

 

 

 

That's us too, but I don't find it boring at all. I love looking back at how the different European ethnicities intermingled... for example, I have ancestors from what is now Northern Ireland. Over the years, it's been controlled by different factions. So is that part of me Irish? British? Boundaries have changed over the centuries and makes for interesting research as well. I've managed to trace a few of my lines as far back as the 1500's, and it's funny even the different names places have had. Prussia? Doesn't exist, it's just Germany now.

 

Can you tell I'm a genealogy nut? :tongue_smilie:

[Mabelen]

Lol,,, so my kids should pass as Hispanic? They are white and Asian. I will love some scholarship

 

Well, if your children are Hispanic, then yes, otherwise obviously no.

 

My kids happen to be white and Asian and Hispanic. The Hispanic heritage comes from me, the white side, as I was born and bred in Spain. They do regards themselves as white, (South) Asian and Hispanic. They speak Spanish, are knowledgeable of Hispanic cultures and countries and have community involvement in the local Hispanity comunity through volunteer work.

 

So, it really it depends. Can your children truthfully answer yes to the question are they art least a quarter Hispanic? Do they have a parent or a granparent who is full Hispanic? If so, yes, they should pass as Hispanics as there is no single Hispanic look but many different ones.

[TranquilMind]

I have friends who could qualify, but are SO white, blonde haired, blue eyed, Norwegian looking that they don't even bother. But, their grandfather was AA. Matter of fact, the maternal last name is Black.

 

And, their father is Cherokee, but again...

 

I don't think being anything mainstream like black or white helps anymore. If you are a truly under-represented minority, then you should definitely mention it.

[La Texican]

I'm not that far along yet. My kid's just starting school. I have not called my kids Hispanic. My mom and dad both say I should. (for future scholarships) My husband is Hispanic we live in a Tex-Mex town, but I think that's what makes me not call my kids Hispanic. They are Hispanic according to some of what y'all are saying, they have a Hispanic name, Hispanic father, and live in a Hispanic town. It's just here me and my kids are quite gringo.

 

I really, I'm just going to have to wait and see what the kids think they are when they are older. Funny thing to let the kids decide, right?!