sports: what is the point?

[Julie Smith]

More specifically, can't a child learn to work hard despite obstacles and lazy days doing school? I didn't do sports, and we are on a budget, so I am just thinking through all of this while dd is young. :001_smile:

 

Julie, I am not advocating that sports are the only way. I simply answered the OP as asked.

 

Sorry I didn't write that out my post properly.

 

I thought you post about reasons for sports was really good, well thought out... Since the OP is thinking about the subject and didn't ask for just the PROs I debated it from the other side. Reasons why sports aren't needed - or other activities would suffice.

 

I was picturing us two up on stage with you on the pro team, me on the con, and RaeAnne as the audience/judge.

[catz]

Still, 5 is still not the time to decide he doesn't like to compete. it is not uncommon for 5 year olds to be a little spaced-out in games. At 6 they are less so. Even less at 7. And at 8 or 9 those same sort of boys typically become competitors if they stick with a game they enjoy (which may or may not be soccer). While there are some boys who may be more naturally competitive this is a quality that is learned, and it is an important part of a child's education IMO.

 

Bill

 

Learning to be competitive is an important part of education? I guess I don't necessarily agree. My oldest played soccer from age 4-9. He enjoyed running around, drills, socialing. The last league he was in the boys got a little too cut throat for him and he was done with it. I think it was good while it lasted.

 

Currently he is doing acrobatics, unicycle, trapeze, and taking a hip hop dance class. All of these are non-competitive, but co-operative and "team" based in some instances. He also does theater - so I guess auditions could be called competitive, but I don't think his perspective has him viewing it that way. He swims for fun. My daughter tried one year of soccer and hated it at age 6. She dances at a performance based school 3 nights a week this summer at an intensive. I guess I don't see one experience necessarily more valuable than the other.

 

I do think it is valuable for kids to learn to (I liked Joann's post on this!)

1. Work with other kids

2. Work with a coach or a mentor

3. Learn to be part of a "team"

4. Engage an active lifestyle

 

I think there are many more ways to learn these lessons that traditional competitive sports. The first 3 have even been covered by my kids taking music lessons and playing in ensembles/groups/duets.

 

I guess my DH and I are non-competitive at heart too. If you have a kid that thrives on competition, I think that's great and something they should pursue. But if you have a child that doesn't, I think that's fine too. I consider that more of a personality trait that may or may not develop than something necessary to instill.

[catz]

So you think being competitive is an important quality? Hehe..well we don't. ;) Not to say we aren't competitive about some stuff. I just don't see that as a "quality" to cultivate. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you though.

 

I keep asking him about soccer. He keeps violently refusing. As I said, he is tolerating tennis.

 

Alright, we're definitely on the same page as you! Yay for people that just aren't competitive! :D

 

Honestly, competitive parenting is what partially drove me to homeschooling. It drove me nuts when other parents would grill me about my gifted oldest and play the compare game. Kids are individuals. Why do we need to compare?

[Haiku]

While there are some boys who may be more naturally competitive this is a quality that is learned, and it is an important part of a child's education IMO.

 

I don't agree. I don't agree with the push to make kids competitive, or teach them to be competitive, or whatever. Some people are naturally competitive. Fine. Some are not. Also fine. Teaching a child to be competitive is not an important part of a child's education, imo.

 

Both my younger kids play hockey. Both are very good. My ds is somewhat competitive. He gets upset when the team loses, but not overly so. My dd is not very competitive. She plays hockey because it's fun. She likes to win, but she doesn't really care if they lose. She just likes to play. Both kids are fine the way they are.

 

My dd17 plays soccer. She is extremely competitive. She gets very angry when they don't win, and this causes her to be frustrated with her teammates and interferes with her relationships with them. Losing a game can ruin her day and definitely detracts form her enjoyment of the game. She's very competitive. She's also fine the way she is, but I definitely see down sides to investing yourself so emotionally in something that ultimately doesn't matter (who wins a teenage soccer game).

 

I play hockey, too. I honestly couldn't give a rat's butt whether we win or lose. I play hockey because I enjoy skating, I enjoy playing hockey with my husband, I enjoy improving my skills, and I enjoy the comaraderie of the hockey community. I am not competitive. I was not competitive when I played soccer, ran track, ran cross country, or heck, marched in the marching band. I do what I do because I enjoy doing it, not because I care whether I beat someone else.

 

To me, doing what you enjoy because you enjoy doing it is a far more valuable lesson to teach children, especially because kid culture can be so narrowly focused and constrictive about what it deems a worthy activity.

 

Tara

[Julie Smith]

You know, it's funny (thinking about your son being upset about the not sharing), I didn't even realize that the point of sports was to compete and win until I was, oh I don't know what age exactly, but it seems I was older. So I always played with the thought that I want the game to keep going and be fun. So if I played tennis I tried to hit the ball to the other player so we could keep a volley. It never occurred to me that I should try to make it so the other player couldn't hit it. I still play like that. :tongue_smilie::D

 

When I was in highschool during lunch they would offer sports in the gym, or outside. My friends and I would often play, but we weren't very good at some of them. The two we weren't good at were tennis and volleyball.

 

The way we played those games was to try to keep the game going as long as possible. So we would try to aim the ball at the other team. And then work as a team to see if we could beat our previous record of keeping the ball in play for X amount of hits or time.

[ClassicalTwins]

My sons have learned to work hard in sports. I have a soccer player (has only played YMCA) but is even competitive in that setting, even though score is not officially kept, believe me at the end of the game, all the kids know which team got more goals in...even when they were 5 yr olds. This year he will be moving to a competitive league with some of his YMCA friends, as they did not allow any team to score more than 2 goals in any game this spring....time to move on.

 

My other son is a gymnast, before that he was an All Star competitive cheerleader (I hear the snickers).. however, that sport is brutal. He started at 5 because he wanted to do something to win (his words). He wasn't happy with the Y, where everyone gets a trophy, he wanted his own & a team to compete

 

The point of sports is to work as a team or build individual skills. I hear for boys it does help concentration & learning (I'm sure the same for girls). For mine it is reaching a goal. Especially my gymnast. He sees the boys younger or older doing something he can't do, he strives to learn that skill.

[Spy Car]

I don't agree. I don't agree with the push to make kids competitive, or teach them to be competitive, or whatever. Some people are naturally competitive. Fine. Some are not. Also fine. Teaching a child to be competitive is not an important part of a child's education, imo.

 

Both my younger kids play hockey. Both are very good. My ds is somewhat competitive. He gets upset when the team loses, but not overly so. My dd is not very competitive. She plays hockey because it's fun. She likes to win, but she doesn't really care if they lose. She just likes to play. Both kids are fine the way they are.

 

My dd17 plays soccer. She is extremely competitive. She gets very angry when they don't win, and this causes her to be frustrated with her teammates and interferes with her relationships with them. Losing a game can ruin her day and definitely detracts form her enjoyment of the game. She's very competitive. She's also fine the way she is, but I definitely see down sides to investing yourself so emotionally in something that ultimately doesn't matter (who wins a teenage soccer game).

 

I play hockey, too. I honestly couldn't give a rat's butt whether we win or lose. I play hockey because I enjoy skating, I enjoy playing hockey with my husband, I enjoy improving my skills, and I enjoy the comaraderie of the hockey community. I am not competitive. I was not competitive when I played soccer, ran track, ran cross country, or heck, marched in the marching band. I do what I do because I enjoy doing it, not because I care whether I beat someone else.

 

To me, doing what you enjoy because you enjoy doing it is a far more valuable lesson to teach children, especially because kid culture can be so narrowly focused and constrictive about what it deems a worthy activity.

 

Tara

 

Who advocated for constrictive choices?

 

Dance is way to build coordination, stamina, strength, flexibility and mental focus.

 

I think children need to find areas of physical expression that they feel a passion about.

 

Bill

[Haiku]

Who advocated for constrictive choices?

 

My point being that kid culture tends to have a narrowly defined spectrum of "cool" choices and activities, so the idea that we do what we do because we enjoy it (whether it's considered cool or not) and not because we are trying to beat others or be "winners" is what I was getting at.

 

Tara

[justLisa]

My kids don't want to participate in the "typical" sports because they do not want to give up all of their evenings and weekends for games. I have no issue with that.

 

There are MANY activities that instil team work, hard work, dedication etc. What about good grades? Or chess, or math comps, etc. We plan to do Lego League soon once I can find/organize one with DH. And the way my kids play outside with their swords and such, well they are quite impressive :D. And we bike ride, run/walk, hike etc so they are plenty fit. If you LIKE sports then great. But if you do not like throwing a ball or kicking one in to a net then I do not see the point.

[Spy Car]

My point being that kid culture tends to have a narrowly defined spectrum of "cool" choices and activities, so the idea that we do what we do because we enjoy it (whether it's considered cool or not) and not because we are trying to beat others or be "winners" is what I was getting at.

 

Tara

 

I understand what you are saying, I'm just letting you know that I have a vast spectrum of choices that I'd consider "cool."

 

And the competition is with-in ourselves. It is a drive to be the best we can be.

 

Bill

[ClassicalTwins]

That's all well and good, but constantly being harassed for not being all that good is pretty deflating. Again, there aren't a lot of options where stuff doesn't get serious early on.

 

I have to agree, we did T-ball when the boys were 4, one wasn't much taller than the T, and there were parents who were quite vocal about him being too small to play :001_huh:....he was 4 the age they were supposed to be and it was round robin play, no score, no outs....weirdos!

[Mommy22alyns]

Rebecca especially gets a lot out of sports (gymnastics) that she couldn't get from school. Plus she enjoys it. She eats, sleeps, and breathes gymnastics. It's her passion. It's brought out drive and determination that math just couldn't. She practices all the time. She doesn't practice grammar. She's also very fit, strong, and flexible.

 

Sylvia... it's a way to keep her active and better her coordination and balance. We haven't found her "thing" yet. She has fun.

 

Both girls have also played soccer, which helped with teamwork, effort, endurance, and taking turns. It was a new skill for them.

[PeacefulChaos]

Well, if your kids are never interested, I don't think you need to force them to do it.

But we do sports/extracurriculars here, and I actually do make my kids choose one per season in summer, fall, and spring. It may just be 3 weeks (6 lessons) of swimming in the summer, or a couple of months of soccer or baseball during the spring and/or fall. Link did swimming in the spring, too, only at the Y (which was a HUGE disappointment and waste of money, but anyway...), and has tried short sessions of karate. I just want them to be doing something. I don't want them to just be here, I want them to learn the things they learn in sports. When they are older if they choose to forego a sport for a different extracurricular - band, choir, whatever - then I'm ok with that, too.

Honestly, they don't cost that much. Not here, anyway. Soccer and baseball through the community league (which is pretty big) runs $55 a season. Swimming is comparatively priced (except at the Y, which is cheaper, but you get what you pay for there). Nothing is so expensive that I would forego it.

But that's JMO. YMMV.

[regentrude]

Again, there aren't a lot of options where stuff doesn't get serious early on.

 

That is easily circumvented by choosing an individual sport instead of a team sport - this instantly frees you from other people's agenda.

In rock climbing, for example, there is originally no competition (that is a very artificial afterthought and completely unnecessary for enjoyment) - you do not have to climb faster or higher than another person, you just have to outmaneuver the - very impartial - rock. If you are competetive at all, you basically compete with yourself.

Or, to take another example, in horseback riding, it is all between the rider and the horse - the shows are secondary, and a good trainer will give his students a choice whether they want to compete or whether they prefer to just improve on their own.

If you choose an individual sport, you are completely independent from any "age-typical" performance, which is wonderful (and would be great for a not-so athletic child who would have trouble measuring up to his same age peers.) The kid can progress on his own pace, independent of the ability of an "average" team mate.

[EthiopianFood]

I guess I didn't have to worry about not getting many responses. :tongue_smilie:

 

Is it sports or is it a budget question?

 

What if she wanted to do music lessons and join a kids orchestra (that run into the thousands of dollars per year) or what if she was passionate about art and wanted to take art classes that cost major $$$ ?

 

It's both, I suppose. Art or music would feel like something they could do their entire lives, while sports seem like something they can only really do for a short period of time. It's a "are sports in particular worth it when you are on a tight budget" question, I suppose. Dd is young enough now that I feel I could possibly influence the direction she goes with it. I mean, if I don't keep signing her up for swimming lessons (which yes, she is asking for, and it's at a club that has a team later on), it's much less likely to even be on her radar, especially since she doesn't know anyone on a sports team (we are almost exclusively around homeschoolers, and none of them seem very sporty). If she doesn't want to stick with it, then the point is moot. But there is a chance she will, and I don't want to give her something that I will want to take away later.

 

 

a team that cost over $13000 per year not to mention extensive multi-state travel commitments.

 

Um, which sport was this?? :blink:

[EthiopianFood]

The point?

 

 

1. Structure. Many kids need an abundance of it.

2. Team process. Kids benefit from the process of working as a team.

3. Responsibility. Learning to attend practice and work towards a common goal is useful.

4. Organized physical fitness can be of benefit.

5. Competition. Some kids thrive on it.

6. Exposure to a variety of life's recreational options.

7. Sometimes kids have a particular sports bent that can be nurtured.

 

I don't believe in structured, for pay, competitive team sports just because you HAVE a kid. But being against them because you didn't do them and don't wish or can't make the money seems a bit narrow.

 

Yes, I agree. ;)

[EthiopianFood]

Accomplishments in sports, like academics, are something a kid earns for himself rather than gets handed to him, whether he is in his backyard or on a team.

 

I also think kids can benefit if they are paired up with an excellent coach.

 

My kids benefit from being with me, and yes, it s my job to teach them about life. But there is just that something about having an external person push you to a place where you never knew you could go, and get you there intact, that is amazing. For a little kid in gymnastics it might be that hard-won or ward roll or first vault, or in swimming, the first dive or alternating breathing lap in the pool and realizing you dd not drown. Yes, it's cool to do that with Mom and Dad, but one more step away fom the mom/dad safety net is one more step towards believing in yourself, too. (and a coach can be a future job/college recommendation writer).

 

A good coach is someone other than mom/dad who can build true self esteem through accomplishment, not empty praise, and who can say 'no' without it hurting, but inspiring.

 

Sports require thinking, but also clear the mind, build bones and the immune system, and get the wiggles out so the kids are ready to study again. It is hard to stand straight or sit in a chair without good core muscles to hold your posture.

 

Sports are critical to our lifestyle even though our family's genetic destiny is likely to produce zero 'jocks.'. :001_smile:

 

This was a very helpful post, thank you. :001_smile: I can see this being especially true in our family, where I do tend to be a bit of a helicopter parent sometimes. I never thought about a coach in this way (obviously because I never experienced it myself). As an introvert with an extroverted dd, these are definitely values and experiences that would be worth my time and money....

[EthiopianFood]

I do not see any need for organized sports in clubs and teams. All the character traits listed can be developed through other activities, such as studying a musical instrument, singing in a choir, caring for farm animals.

I do, however, see a large need for regular physical activity.

 

This is what I had been thinking, but I was wondering if I was missing something. I appreciate everyone's opinions.

[wintermom]

I haven't read through all the replies. I'm all for well organized and coached sports, if the child enjoys it.

 

You can get a lot of the same positive character training you would through sport from music training, too. Though sports has the added potential of building a healthy body. Many professional musicians add in the physical activity to enhance their body's strength in order to help their music playing.

[EthiopianFood]

I think encouraging activity in general and throughout life means your child will more likely to stay active throughout their life. Often ones that I know that were super athletes in school don't really carry that into adult(except a very small amount) as they seem to only associate activity with that particular sport.

 

Can others comment on this? This is how it seems to me as well. There are so many retired athletes who are just as overweight and out of shape as many of us! :001_huh: I do think they have an advantage though, that they have learned to enjoy physical activity, and they know how to get back into shape (and that they CAN get in shape) if they choose to as adults.

[EthiopianFood]

I never would have thought sports were that important until my painfully shy daughter asked to play soccer. She went WAY out of her comfort zone because she really wanted to play. There has been an amazing transformation in her confidence. She plays soccer and softball and the boost to her self esteem is undeniable.

 

As a former shy child, I can definitely appreciate this! :001_smile:

[wintermom]

Can others comment on this? This is how it seems to me as well. There are so many retired athletes who are just as overweight and out of shape as many of us! :001_huh: I do think they have an advantage though, that they have learned to enjoy physical activity, and they know how to get back into shape (and that they CAN get in shape) if they choose to as adults.

 

It's absolutely true statistically that physical activity in childhood leads to a higher probability of physically active adults. You can always find examples of former athletes who are no longer physically active, though.

[Spy Car]

This is what I had been thinking, but I was wondering if I was missing something. I appreciate everyone's opinions.

 

I haven't read through all the replies. I'm all for well organized and coached sports, if the child enjoys it.

 

You can get a lot of the same positive character training you would through sport from music training, too. Though sports has the added potential of building a healthy body. Many professional musicians add in the physical activity to enhance their body's strength in order to help their music playing.

 

Music does have the potential to get children "in the zone." Not every one that takes music lessons, or plays a sport, finds "the zone," but that is what makes a musician or an athlete.

 

When you can unite mind, body, spirit in an activity where there is total concentration and application of serious effort amazing things happen that change the individual forever.

 

Finding activities that get us in "the zone," activities that inspire passion and laser-like focus is priceless.

 

As nurturing an activity as music is it does not replace sport anymore than sport replaces music. We have bodies than need to be cultivated to develop high levels of coordination, strength, and fitness. Playing piano, or chess (while pursuits I value) do not build the physical education that sports to. That is why athletics have always been a core part of the Classical ideal.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Can others comment on this? This is how it seems to me as well. There are so many retired athletes who are just as overweight and out of shape as many of us! :001_huh: I do think they have an advantage though, that they have learned to enjoy physical activity, and they know how to get back into shape (and that they CAN get in shape) if they choose to as adults.

 

I think anyone can get out of shape. But athletes do retain a sense of muscle-memory, confidence about their bodies, and have a coordination that non-athletes lack. This does not excuse getting out of shape, but there a great advantages to cultivating physical education in youth.

 

Bill

[Ipsey]

I think anyone can get out of shape. But athletes do retain a sense of muscle-memory, confidence about their bodies, and have a coordination that non-athletes lack. This does not excuse getting out of shape, but there a great advantages to cultivating physical education in youth.

 

Bill

 

I've noticed this idea of muscle-memory in my own life. I was a competitive gymnast for years, but haven't done anything since I was 14 (yeah, I started young). When I started Yoga 2 years ago, I found that I could balance well and do many different postures in my very intense practices, and I've been amazed and how much my body has kept up with. I'm so glad to be back with it.

 

Also, I loved sports as a kid. Why sports?! Because I want my children to learn how to use their bodies and how to exert their bodies and feel what physical effort actually feels like in bodily training.

 

I also loved my teams (when I did team sports) and sweating and sometimes physically hurting together, helped to forge feelings and relationships I wouldn't have otherwise had.

 

There's something deeply meaningful about working and living in your body. Learning to train your body, I think, is important, in the way that training your mind ear, or anything else is.

 

Sorry if I'm doing a lot of repeating.

 

My kids aren't actually huge athletes (while I was a 2-sport varsity player in h.s.) They all take swim lessons, and I insist they do at least one sport during the school year, soccer, ice skating, running, dance, whatever. They get to choose, but it's a non-negotiable for us.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Ipsey

[EthiopianFood]

Music does have the potential to get children "in the zone." Not every one that takes music lessons, or plays a sport, finds "the zone," but that is what makes a musician or an athlete.

 

When you can unite mind, body, spirit in an activity where there is total concentration and application of serious effort amazing things happen that change the individual forever.

 

Finding activities that get us in "the zone," activities that inspire passion and laser-like focus is priceless.

 

As nurturing an activity as music is it does not replace sport anymore than sport replaces music. We have bodies than need to be cultivated to develop high levels of coordination, strength, and fitness. Playing piano, or chess (while pursuits I value) do not build the physical education that sports to. That is why athletics have always been a core part of the Classical ideal.

 

Bill

 

I agree that we need both, but I assume most kids don't have the time (or drive/aptitude) to be "in the zone" in both areas. As a side note though, if dd DID, I don't know what I would do, because I don't see how we could afford it, hence wondering how important team sports really are. I do think you put your finger on it for me overall. Does dd love a sport, or is she PASSIONATE about a sport? For love, we aren't going to sacrifice a family vacation, and every evening for practice. For passion, yes, after thinking through it with this thread, I think I would say it would be worth it (if possible). I do so want dd to have a passion, and if she is wired in a sporty way, what can I do, right? :001_smile: For love, so many of these skills can be learned in a way that doesn't require thousands of dollars and hours a year. Passion, on the other hand, cannot often find a substitute.

[NittanyJen]

Can others comment on this? This is how it seems to me as well. There are so many retired athletes who are just as overweight and out of shape as many of us! :001_huh: I do think they have an advantage though, that they have learned to enjoy physical activity, and they know how to get back into shape (and that they CAN get in shape) if they choose to as adults.

 

Anecdotally, I am still in contact with over 80% of my graduating class of 326 people from high school. Of those who were student athletes, I estimate 90% are still physically active. Of those who were recreationally active (occasional neighborhood leagues, year of swim team, personal hobby that was outdoor or indoor active, but not casual in commitment, etc) I estimate 70% are still active. Of those who were rarely active and did not participate in anything physically demanding other than occasionally (ie at camp or gym class) only about 20% or so seem to be doing much active.

 

That's my very unscientific poll :)

[Bluegoat]

Bill these were 5 year olds. We did talk about the game and DH watches a lot of soccer. So it's not like DS had never seen the game.

 

I read an article a few years ago by a professional athlete talking about kid's sports, from a mom's perspective. She felt that most leagues had kids playing games way too young, before they were able to understand the game. She felt this tended to give them negative associations and also meant they were missing out time better spent on skills, mostly to keep the parents, who like games, happy.

[PeacefulChaos]

I read an article a few years ago by a professional athlete talking about kid's sports, from a mom's perspective. She felt that most leagues had kids playing games way too young, before they were able to understand the game. She felt this tended to give them negative associations and also meant they were missing out time better spent on skills, mostly to keep the parents, who like games, happy.

 

Interesting. My first thought, then, is 'What do 5 year olds DO then?'

Maybe it's just what we're used to - but Pink is 3 and about to start swimming lessons next week (just 6 lessons over 3 weeks, mainly to get her used to the water), and we can sign kids up for 'dance' (creative movement) classes at age 2.5. I plan on signing her up in the fall.

Both boys started swimming lessons at 3 (Astro was even younger). Link started soccer at 4.5, Astro at 4. Link has been taking time off the past year and a half, and I don't know if he'll go back to it. Astro took off after his first season and just went back to it last fall and has played the last 2 seasons (fall and spring). Both are saying they want to try baseball this fall, though Astro changes his mind a lot so we shall see with him. ;)

 

I don't like the idea of influencing kids decisions one way or another when it comes to sports or not, or which particular sport, or anything like that. I ask them what THEY want to do and see what I can find, and then I will lay it out for them, 'You can do soccer, baseball, karate, swimming, archery, etc, etc' and if it isn't in our budget I don't list it. For example, DH and I hate baseball. But the boys don't know that, we haven't told them, because I'm adamantly opposed to the idea that our own personal preferences will influence their decision negatively. I want them to get the opportunity to try anything they want, and support them in it wholeheartedly.

[Soror]

Anecdotally, I am still in contact with over 80% of my graduating class of 326 people from high school. Of those who were student athletes, I estimate 90% are still physically active. Of those who were recreationally active (occasional neighborhood leagues, year of swim team, personal hobby that was outdoor or indoor active, but not casual in commitment, etc) I estimate 70% are still active. Of those who were rarely active and did not participate in anything physically demanding other than occasionally (ie at camp or gym class) only about 20% or so seem to be doing much active.

 

That's my very unscientific poll :)

Interesting. I wouldn't estimate that anywhere near that number of student athletes I know are still physically active. Most I graduated with seem about the same as anyone else, although often the athletes were from more affluent homes and seem to be more likely overweight/obese. But I haven't figured numbers or anything. We are doing what works for us and official team sports aren't it. We are active in lots of ways though. We learn different skills in other ways. I think one should be active regardless if sports are your thing are not. It seems we've lost our way in life. Sports don't have to be your thing to be active. To me it is an entirely separate thing. In no society is everyone going to be a big athlete but we should all be physically fit; from the geek to the musician.

[Joani]

Even though sports consume most of my kids' time, the main reason I've encouraged sports is enjoyment, pure and simple. I would encourage music or another activity just as much if it gave my kids the joy that sports brings to them. Friendships, confidence, work ethic, health, etc., are just bonuses to me. :001_smile:

[wintermom]

When you can unite mind, body, spirit in an activity where there is total concentration and application of serious effort amazing things happen that change the individual forever.

 

Finding activities that get us in "the zone," activities that inspire passion and laser-like focus is priceless.

 

As nurturing an activity as music is it does not replace sport anymore than sport replaces music. We have bodies than need to be cultivated to develop high levels of coordination, strength, and fitness. Playing piano, or chess (while pursuits I value) do not build the physical education that sports to. That is why athletics have always been a core part of the Classical ideal.

 

Bill

 

Love this! However, I don't believe that traditional "sports," such as baseball, basketball, soccer, etc., has to be the route to to achieve the point of mind, body and spirit unity. There are a lot of physical activities which can help young people achieve this, such as rowing, paddling, martial arts, running, etc. And I don't believe the physical activity must always be competitive, as long as a challenging goal is set and strived for.

[Spy Car]

Love this! However, I don't believe that traditional "sports," such as baseball, basketball, soccer, etc., has to be the route to to achieve the point of mind, body and spirit unity. There are a lot of physical activities which can help young people achieve this, such as rowing, paddling, martial arts, running, etc. And I don't believe the physical activity must always be competitive, as long as a challenging goal is set and strived for.

 

I'm with you 100%. There are many paths and numerous physical activities that might inspire a child. As PeacefulChaos does with her child, I offer my son a bunch of options and he chooses what he wants to play.

 

This year Ballet and Jazz dance were on the table (we even rented "Billy Elliot" :D) among other choices but it seems Basketball and Lacrosse are his picks.

 

On Sunday we went to a 5 hour long Classical Indian Dance recital that a young friend was participating in. It was amazing (if a tad long :tongue_smilie:). The boy (6) was incredibly talented and one could see his passion. Many paths.

 

Bill

[Bluegoat]

Interesting. My first thought, then, is 'What do 5 year olds DO then?'

Maybe it's just what we're used to - but Pink is 3 and about to start swimming lessons next week (just 6 lessons over 3 weeks, mainly to get her used to the water), and we can sign kids up for 'dance' (creative movement) classes at age 2.5. I plan on signing her up in the fall.

Both boys started swimming lessons at 3 (Astro was even younger). Link started soccer at 4.5, Astro at 4. Link has been taking time off the past year and a half, and I don't know if he'll go back to it. Astro took off after his first season and just went back to it last fall and has played the last 2 seasons (fall and spring). Both are saying they want to try baseball this fall, though Astro changes his mind a lot so we shall see with him. ;)

 

I don't like the idea of influencing kids decisions one way or another when it comes to sports or not, or which particular sport, or anything like that. I ask them what THEY want to do and see what I can find, and then I will lay it out for them, 'You can do soccer, baseball, karate, swimming, archery, etc, etc' and if it isn't in our budget I don't list it. For example, DH and I hate baseball. But the boys don't know that, we haven't told them, because I'm adamantly opposed to the idea that our own personal preferences will influence their decision negatively. I want them to get the opportunity to try anything they want, and support them in it wholeheartedly.

 

 

I think the problem she was seeing was more with games that involve strategy and working with others strategically - mostly team-sports. So something like swimming or dance would not really be an issue in that way. And some strategy games can be played in an enjoyable way without that aspect - you can play tennis for fun and build skills without getting into mental maneuverings or trying to outplay your opponent in that way.

 

But a team playing together to achieve various ends is really at a different mental level and I don't think three year olds or many five year olds are up to it. For those kinds of games she felt younger kids should really be doing skill-building exercises and fun but limited kinds of play against other individuals.

 

I do try to give my kids some choice and chance to try different things, but I don't have a problem with not offering things that I think are inappropriate for some reason. I don't offer hockey, for example, because I know we can't afford it, and because I have some qualms about the values I see taught as they get older, at least for boys.

 

But I also would not offer I sport I thought was developmentally inappropriate. THat might mean something too rough or physically demanding for the age group, but I also would include emotionally or intellectually not the best choice. I'd tend to wait until about 7 for a lot of the more strategic team sports. Before then I've tended to offer things that will help them gain strength, flexibility, balance, and physical confidence, or that give a skill. So my kids at younger ages have done dance, gymnastics, swimming (which is a safety skill IMO,) horseback riding, and recreational skating.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Bluegoat

[NittanyJen]

Interesting. I wouldn't estimate that anywhere near that number of student athletes I know are still physically active. Most I graduated with seem about the same as anyone else, although often the athletes were from more affluent homes and seem to be more likely overweight/obese. But I haven't figured numbers or anything. We are doing what works for us and official team sports aren't it. We are active in lots of ways though. We learn different skills in other ways. I think one should be active regardless if sports are your thing are not. It seems we've lost our way in life. Sports don't have to be your thing to be active. To me it is an entirely separate thing. In no society is everyone going to be a big athlete but we should all be physically fit; from the geek to the musician.

 

You'll note in my first post that we are not expecting to produce any jocks or athletic scholarship winners ourselves :001_smile:

 

I have one who by choice does fencing, karate, and a homeschool gym class run by a fantastic kids coach. We hike and swim for play as a family (and I am also a martial artist). He tried swim team, soccer, t-ball, flag football, etc and when he said not for him, we stopped. He is much more comfortable with individually oriented activities. But at least in karate and fencing (and a little in gym) he is accountable to others, and if he dogs it or misses, the instructors and kids let him know they miss him being his best, and that is still good for him.

 

My littler guy would really struggle with team stuff; at age 8 he can be outrun by most 2 year olds. However as part of his PT program, he takes swimming and gymnastics plus the homeschool gym class. All of his coaches are terrific, and he is improving weekly and finding out how to find activities he can enjoy for a lifetime. What I love in the gym class is the technical instruction... Exactly how to position your hands, fingers, and arms to shoot a basketball, for example. He may never play on an organized team, but now playing casually is far more likely to be pleasurable, because he will know what he is doing! He is also really proud of his 5+ years of hard work in PT. His therapist is great about having him practice useful 'kid skills' mixed in with the stretching and less fun stuff.

 

Neither kid is in a 'team sport,' but both have a good mix of daily outdoor undirected play and external stuff where they are accountable to other people who care about their progress.

 

Think about it this way... I, for one, find it easier to stay on track with my own workouts if I am accountable to someone else, even if it is just a walking partner or an email buddy to compare notes with. Even as a black belt, it can be hard to stick to it all the time when nobody notices but you; those little excuses pile up fast! If a relatively well disciplined adult has this issue, how well will a kid stick with an activity if they have to go it alone and you expect them to push to a high enough intensity to really benefit? A few natural athletes will, but they are not the ones I worry for. I see too many kids in my neighborhood who think being sent outdoors to play is punishment.

[NittanyJen]

I find it interesting that so many people draw a sharp line of distinction between "sports" and think strictly of basketball/baseball/soccer/football vs "other stuff" (golf/dance/martial arts/rowing/equestrian/etc) and lump in equally organized and disciplined activities into this alternative category as if we are having two different conversations.

 

In terms of pursuing the activity in a serious manner, practicing regularly, having some coaching, often practicing or playing with a familiar group of people, there is no distinction between these activities. Competition isn't necessarily a requirement, even if many choose it.

 

Ballet and karate are as vigorous as soccer, and more consistently cardiovascular than baseball. Dancers are tough athletes. Golfers must be very flexible and coordinated through their core. Each sport offers up something, and they are all sports.

 

The point in the context we have been discussing is fitness, and any of these can get you there. I just thought it was interesting that people were trying to separate them out, even beyond the team/individual fit for their DC.

[wintermom]

I find it interesting that so many people draw a sharp line of distinction between "sports" and think strictly of basketball/baseball/soccer/football vs "other stuff" (golf/dance/martial arts/rowing/equestrian/etc) and lump in equally organized and disciplined activities into this alternative category as if we are having two different conversations.

 

In terms of pursuing the activity in a serious manner, practicing regularly, having some coaching, often practicing or playing with a familiar group of people, there is no distinction between these activities. Competition isn't necessarily a requirement, even if many choose it.

 

Ballet and karate are as vigorous as soccer, and more consistently cardiovascular than baseball. Dancers are tough athletes. Golfers must be very flexible and coordinated through their core. Each sport offers up something, and they are all sports.

 

The point in the context we have been discussing is fitness, and any of these can get you there. I just thought it was interesting that people were trying to separate them out, even beyond the team/individual fit for their DC.

 

I agree with you. Sadly, it can be difficult to find physical activities for children that are NOT competitive. If it's organized by adults and has coaching, it is very often competitive, or the competitive division of the club takes the majority of the money and resources. Certainly this seems to be the case as the children reach the age 8 - 10 range.

 

I wish it wasn't to glaringly competition emphasized, and I work hard to find opportunities for my dc to participate in sports and physical activities which are more development and skill focused. We organize homeschool Taekwon-Do and basketball, which are skills based. We participate in a homeschool soccer program which is also skills and development focused. Swimming is for skill and safety. Running is for fun and a t-shirt. The dc have all participated in ballet.

 

For younger children, I like to provide opportunities to try a variety of sports and activities. If they wish to delve deeper into one or two and go more competitive, that will come later.

Edited June 27, 2012 by wintermom

[PeacefulChaos]

Just out of curiosity, why do some dislike competition so much?

I'm just curious as to what the motivation is.

[Julie Smith]

Just out of curiosity, why do some dislike competition so much?

I'm just curious as to what the motivation is.

 

I'm fine with competition, even as a child.

 

My Eldest hates anything that has even a bit of competition, and/or an activity/sport organized by an adult.

 

During cross-country running last year they would play various games for a few minutes such as tag, or a game with a kid in the middle and the other kids have to run from one side of the field to another without being caught. If caught they join the kid in the middle till everyone is caught.

 

I would play quite happily since I was an assistant coach. Both my boys picked instead to run laps non-stop for the whole game time. :001_huh:

[momtokea]

I think physical activity is important. I like individual sports (ie. swimming, gymnastics, martial arts, cycling, etc.), but I despise organized team sports. I see more harm than good for kids in organized team sports. I have seen more aggressive, mean-spirited, sore losers (even with their own team members, AND among the parents!) than I care to remember with my son's soccer team.

 

The other thing that gets on my nerves regarding sports is that in my town young people are doing all sorts of wonderful activities around the community -- volunteer work, choir, band, scouts, fundraising for charity, drama productions -- and the only thing our local newspaper ever reports is the sports news. It's sad, really.

[Lady Florida.]

Just out of curiosity, why do some dislike competition so much?

I'm just curious as to what the motivation is.

 

I'm not against competition for those who enjoy it, and I'm definitely against the school of thought in which everyone is a winner no matter what. I just don't enjoy it myself. No motivation, no agenda, no belief that competition is wrong.

 

I don't agree. I don't agree with the push to make kids competitive, or teach them to be competitive, or whatever. Some people are naturally competitive. Fine. Some are not. Also fine. Teaching a child to be competitive is not an important part of a child's education, imo.

 

Tara

 

I think I'm just not competitive. I don't enjoy it, but I really can't tell you why. It doesn't have anything to do with not wanting to lose. There are things I'm good at and could win almost every time, yet I don't enjoy competing in those things any more than competing in situations where I know I'll lose. Competition was neither looked down upon nor valued in my family of origin, so in my case I believe it's nature, not nurture. I have some cousins who are very competitive. I can't imagine how I would have survived in a family like the Kennedys where competition was pushed and pushed hard.

 

I think it's wrong to push it on a child. Helping a competitive child learn sportsmanship and giving that child an outlet for competing is important. Making a child be competitive whether he likes it or not isn't going to help the child develop character, teamwork, or any such thing.

 

So, are sports important? Yes and no. For some kids they're literally a lifesaver in that playing a sport steers the child away from other activities that are dangerous. For others they're just plain fun. If a child wants to be involved in a sport and you have the means to make it happen, then it's a good idea to do so. But I wouldn't beat myself up over not having the money for a sport, or having a child who doesn't like sports.

Edited June 27, 2012 by floridamom

[PeacefulChaos]

I'm not against competition for those who enjoy it, and I'm definitely against the school of thought in which everyone is a winner no matter what. I just don't enjoy it myself. No motivation, no agenda, no belief that competition is wrong.

 

I think I'm just not competitive. I don't enjoy it, but I really can't tell you why. It doesn't have anything to do with not wanting to lose. There are things I'm good at and could win almost every time, yet I don't enjoy competing in those things anymore than competing in situations where I know I'll lose. Competition was neither looked down upon nor valued in my family of origin, so in my case I believe it's nature, not nurture. I have some cousins who are very competitive. I can't imagine how I would have survived in a family like the Kennedys where competition was pushed and pushed hard.

 

I think it's wrong to push it on a child. Helping a competitive child learn sportsmanship and giving that child an outlet for competing is important. Making a child be competitive whether he likes it or not isn't going to help the child develop character, teamwork, or any such thing.

 

So, are sports important? Yes and no. For some kids they're literally a lifesaver in that playing a sport steers the child away from other activities that are dangerous. For others they're just plain fun. If a child wants to be involved in a sport and you have the means to make it happen, then it's a good idea to do so. But I wouldn't beat myself up over not having the money for a sport, or having a child who doesn't like sports.

 

Ok. That's pretty much how I feel about it (though I am pretty competitive myself. Nothing sports-wise, though. :D ).

I mainly was just hoping that the people who don't care for competition aren't just doing that because they ascribe to the 'everyone wins' philosophy. :ack2:

I think on one hand, competition is a good thing to let kids experience and let them decide if they like it or not. Link played soccer for a couple years before he began disliking it. High pressure, competitive situations ended up being what he didn't care for - he likes swimming, and asked me this spring if people race in swimming. I said that they do and he was like, 'Mom, I don't ever want to race. Is that ok?' Obviously it is. :)

[Bang!Zoom!]

Man, I was thinking this was a diss about football season coming on. :boxing_smiley:

 

Now I read, I understand.

 

Carry on...

[justLisa]

I think I am one of those people that just do not care to be in something competitive. I know I am good at some things, and could probably be much better than others but for some reason I do not care to engage in organized happenings to prove so.

 

Maybe if there was money involved. :tongue_smilie:

[Lady Florida.]

I'm not against it. It's just not a feeling I have (a sense of wanting to be better at something than someone else).

 

I think that might be it for me too. I don't care about being better than someone else, nor do I care if someone is better at something than I am. I push myself to get better and improve, but I'm the only person I want to "beat".

[Mommamia]

I'm not sure I could find the article again, but I read somewhere that kiddos who engage in sports have a very reduced risk of alcohol, drug, and tobacco abuse in high school.

 

:)

 

I chuckled a little when I read the above. I have heard the same thing, and it makes perfect sense. I laughed because while in high school the girl's tennis team was suspended for drinking before their matches. The football, baseball, soccer, and basketball teams were big partiers, too. I didn't play sports myself, but my brothers did. Oh the stories I could tell! I grew up in a somewhat conservative, affluent town and drinking/drugs was very common during and after school (with the athletes) It was crazy!

 

I think competitive sports are great if you enjoy them, but they are not necessary. I believe music, art, and other activities can be just as beneficial.

Edited June 28, 2012 by mom2littleboys

[NASDAQ]

Sports are perfectly fine and have a lot of benefits, but we don't do them and don't feel obliged to. There are many, many excellent things to do, and everyone needs to make choices because there is never time and money enough to do them all. If your child is physically active in other ways, I don't think it's a big deal if you opt out of formal sports anymore than it would be a big deal if you opted out of boy scouts or music lessons.

 

I wouldn't get too committed to not doing sports though. If you happen to have a child who is very sporty, then that might swing the pendulum in favour of dragging yourself out to regular soccer practice.

[Eileen Aroon]

Most of the benefits I see listed could be found elsewhere (orchestras and bands count as a team), ballroom dance and folk dance are team activities with physical activity.

 

The best reason IMO to have a kid do sports is what someone said on the first page: you want to be able to play volleyball or softball at the picnic someday.

 

My poor father spent a couple summers trying to teach me how to throw a ball (his brother had all-star softball daughters) but I am a total spaz. And my church group of young women always dragged me to their super-amateur basketball games because I am close to 6ft tall. Again, total waste of time.

 

So now that I am an adult, I can't relate to a whole spectrum of my culture and am a confirmed nerd for life. Just glad I married an athlete, his genes might save my offspring.

[Mommamia]

We just got back from the playground, and while there I was thinking of this post. I never played any sports growing up. Now, as an adult I play just about every sport. I was just playing football, dodge ball, and basketball. I literally did not learn to play (nor did I feel comfortable playing) until I became a mom.

[Bluegoat]

Just out of curiosity, why do some dislike competition so much?

I'm just curious as to what the motivation is.

 

Like a lot of others, I just don't find it appealing.

 

But I think there are some real questions about the whole idea of competition. In most recreational activities, the competition is basically abitrary - get the ball in a hole, past a line, or whatever. Jump higher or make the figures more perfectly. And competitiveness in games very often isn't just about doing as well as you can and pushing yourself - it is about doing better than others.

 

I think that when people take these things seriously, are emotionally invested in them, those are actually bad character traits. Wanting to beat others is not something I am really looking to teach my kids. I think the thing sports can do for naturally competitive kids is begin to put negative competitive tendencies into their proper perspective. Not by making the sport non-competitive, but by making it clear that it is about what is really just a game, that we are still respectful of and even friends with those we compete against, and that it is not real life.

 

But that depends on the right kind of sport environment, and coaching, and also the parents of most of the players having the right attitude.