WishboneDawn Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Link here I hate that chart, I really do. It's useless. The statistics for the homeschoolers come HSLDA/NHERI. They gather their numbers from HSLDA members who choose to answer their surveys and represent a very specific and narrow subset of the homeschooling population. Then it compares those stats to public schooling as a whole. It's special pleading. It also contains weird information (from that specific subset) that means nothing. The professions of homeschooling fathers?? What exactly is the point the poster is making there? That poster is being plastered all over Facebook and Pinterest. It proves exactly nothing and only only turns what should be a discussion about educational choice into a polarized I'm-better-then-you-debate. And it does it with fallacies. The only thing I hate more is that list of famous homeschoolers who all died before the last century. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Do you know of more honest stats somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Oh brother. :tongue_smilie: I attended our local homeschool convention last weekend. One of the speakers kept saying things about how homeschoolers automatically do better than public schoolers so we shouldn't stress too much. Um.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Oh brother. :tongue_smilie: I attended our local homeschool convention last weekend. One of the speakers kept saying things about how homeschoolers automatically do better than public schoolers so we shouldn't stress too much. Um.... Whoa!!! Who said that?! PM me if you want :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Lame. I don't homeschool to dominate anyone or anything. And how many great homeschooling parents are the product of a public education? Likely most, right? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 We (my family) are not trying to dominate anyone or anything. I don't want to be part of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Do you know of more honest stats somewhere? There aren't any (in the U.S. at least.) Because homeschoolers are an independent lot, and because laws and records vary so much state to state, it's not possible to get a good statistical sample. So you have statistics like these. The most commonly cited statistics tell us how people who use BJU, administer standardized tests, and want to be reported stack up versus the national average. :D Soooper useful. Which would be great, if it was only to keep the public off of our backs. But, as Laura related, a side effect is that people think that homeschooling automatically leads to superior results. That is the much-repeated mantra of many homeschooler advice-givers. We've talked about this here before, and how it has failed some folks. The graphic linked makes me gag more for the lack of grace it shows than the poor representation of statistics, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Do you know of more honest stats somewhere? I'm not debating the honesty of the stats, I'm saying they're being used inappropriately. Those stats do not reflect homeschoolers as a whole yet they're being compared to stats that reflect public schoolers as a whole. Apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Whoa!!! Who said that?! PM me if you want :D I don't remember her name. She was the one who talked about high school and transcripts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Oh brother. :tongue_smilie: I attended our local homeschool convention last weekend. One of the speakers kept saying things about how homeschoolers automatically do better than public schoolers so we shouldn't stress too much. Um.... :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 There aren't any (in the U.S. at least.) Because homeschoolers are an independent lot, and because laws and records vary so much state to state, it's not possible to get a good statistical sample. So you have statistics like these. The most commonly cited statistics tell us how people who use BJU, administer standardized tests, and want to be reported stack up versus the national average. :D Soooper useful. Which would be great, if it was only to keep the public off of our backs. But, as Laura related, a side effect is that people think that homeschooling automatically leads to superior results. That is the much-repeated mantra of many homeschooler advice-givers. We've talked about this here before, and how it has failed some folks. The graphic linked makes me gag more for the lack of grace it shows than the poor representation of statistics, though. I understand why they were no good. I was just hoping there would be something. I have the joy of anti-hsing relatives and I almost shared the stats when HSLDA posted them, but I realized how biased they were. Irk. I'm not debating the honesty of the stats, I'm saying they're being used inappropriately. Those stats do not reflect homeschoolers as a whole yet they're being compared to stats that reflect public schoolers as a whole. Apples and oranges.I agree with you. I was just hoping someone knew of better numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I plan on my kids taking over the world. Just like we do every night, Pinky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I plan on my kids taking over the world. Just like we do every night, Pinky. But, Brain, how we will get the horse up the chimney? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hmmm I thought I would look up the averages for VA to compare with my dc's scores, but all I can find is pass/fail. Where do you even get those numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 The statistic about no difference in test scores between HS kids taught by a parent with a state teaching credential and HS kids taught by a parent without a credential *DOES* come in handy when dealing with skeptics. I use that one frequently when dealing with people who buy into the whole "credentialism" myth. When I'm feeling particularly snarky, I add how my SIL told me her B.Ed. coursework was an absolute joke :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I plan on my kids taking over the world. Just like we do every night, Pinky. But, Brain, how we will get the horse up the chimney? :D :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 But, Brain, how we will get the horse up the chimney? :D Bazinga! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) We participated in the HSLDA/NHERI poll years ago when my special needs/LD ds was in 7th grade. He is going into his 11th grade year now. I was told the reason HSLDA did the poll survey was that the last one (in the late '90s) needed to be updated. I submitted standardized test scores of my son's ITBS, answered questions, and more. We got the results back a year later in a nice color 4-5 page report. It looked nothing like what the OP's link looks like. :confused: I do not recall answering 50% of those questions like college gpa and so on as the link's graphic displayed. It does look like whomever did create that link took a lot of other info from other sites and used data to suit their views. Which can be done in any survey -- tweak the numbers to prove your point. OTOH, I do have to agree the link reminds me of that horrible bumper sticker, "My child is an Honor Roll Student at _________ Elementary." And then years later, there were bumper stickers saying, "My kid can beat up your Honor Roll Student". Oh my. :lol: Edited June 21, 2012 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 The statistic about no difference in test scores between HS kids taught by a parent with a state teaching credential and HS kids taught by a parent without a credential *DOES* come in handy when dealing with skeptics. I use that one frequently when dealing with people who buy into the whole "credentialism" myth. When I'm feeling particularly snarky, I add how my SIL told me her B.Ed. coursework was an absolute joke :tongue_smilie: :iagree: My Bachelor's courses for Elementary Ed were a joke too. All theory and no hands on projects to learn HOW to teach. I joked that I finally learned how to teach once I got the job and got tossed into the classroom. ;) I recall seeing that study data in an article some years back, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskelly Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 :iagree: My Bachelor's courses for Elementary Ed were a joke too. All theory and no hands on projects to learn HOW to teach. I joked that I finally learned how to teach once I got the job and got tossed into the classroom. ;) I said this same thing just the other day. I had no idea how to teach when I graduated from college. A year in the classroom was the worth 4 in college! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Link hereIt proves exactly nothing and only only turns what should be a discussion about educational choice into a polarized I'm-better-then-you-debate. And it does it with fallacies. Exactly. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 The graphic linked makes me gag more for the lack of grace it shows than the poor representation of statistics, though. I agree. I also hate to see some of these statistics rubbed in the face of parents who patiently teach struggling learners. I am curious about the last part of the graphic. I'd like to see more info about the studies of daily living skills, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes! We DO homeschool in hopes of total world domination. Our evil plan includes forcing everyone to speak Latin! We also plan to outlaw calculators and cash registers to force people to learn to do math, and to have mandatory spelling bees weekly in every community............:lol: FEAR US! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yeah, that chart seems ridiculous and unnecessary. Otoh, I did think that the bit about money was interesting -- that homeschooled kids of lower income do just as well as those of higher income, and that the amount of money parents spent per child to homeschool doesn't affect the outcomes. That is at least encouraging to those of us who don't have lots of money to spend on educational stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes! We DO homeschool in hopes of total world domination. Our evil plan includes forcing everyone to speak Latin! We also plan to outlaw calculators and cash registers to force people to learn to do math, and to have mandatory spelling bees weekly in every community............:lol: FEAR US! :lol::lol::lol::lol: And we will insist on cursive penmanship practiced via copywork & dictation, knowing when to use subject pronouns and when to use object pronouns, and that Argentina is not the name of a U.S. state :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Well, I guess the bottom line is parents who care, can produce children who learn. I think that's true of our children who are in school and our son who is at home. I also think it is MY responsibility to know whether my child can read and comprehend well. That's just the difference between a diligent parent and one who's not. I do think that each family needs to choose what they believe is important for their children to learn and measure what their child is learning in whatever environment they are learning. And... that ALL children are home educated for part of their day.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kesmom Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I hate that chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes! We DO homeschool in hopes of total world domination. Our evil plan includes forcing everyone to speak Latin! We also plan to outlaw calculators and cash registers to force people to learn to do math, and to have mandatory spelling bees weekly in every community............:lol: FEAR US! At least you weren't planning on making us all use metric. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniBlondes Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes! We DO homeschool in hopes of total world domination. Our evil plan includes forcing everyone to speak Latin! We also plan to outlaw calculators and cash registers to force people to learn to do math, and to have mandatory spelling bees weekly in every community............:lol: FEAR US! :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Well, I think that these studies can be useful to show some evidence that homeschooling has positive results. Considering that our local paper had an opinion piece that was very negative toward homeschooling last week, it is easy to understand the need to desire to show evidence that home education works. My dd participated in the NHERI study a few years ago. We don't use BJU-we are very eclectic.:confused: I appreciate the study and still have the results here. The last study had been back in the 90's, so people were saying the results were outdated. Now they did this more recent study and results were similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I said this same thing just the other day. I had no idea how to teach when I graduated from college. A year in the classroom was the worth 4 in college! :lol::lol::lol: Oh yeah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Wait, you mean just by keeping my kids at home, they'll automatically be super-learners who outpace all the local school kids? Oh wow. You have no idea how much time you've saved me! I'm off to eat bonbons now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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