10yoDD is weeping over math

[NorthwestMom]

She has been sitting for 2.5 hours over the same 2 pages of math, which she is perfectly capable of doing with a little effort and persistence. She is under the mistaken belief that if the answer does not come to her immediately then it is too hard. I've talked persistence and hard work blah blah blah. She weeps and stares into space.

 

I don't need advice, just need a place to vent. She is apparently going to spend her day in that chair, and then cry that we had no time to go buy the art supplies she needs for her art class on Thursday, and it's all by her own choice. Arrggh.

[Kim in Appalachia]

:grouphug:

 

I've BTDT many times. :grouphug: I know how you're feeling. I hope the day ends better.

[LillyMama]

:grouphug:

 

Natural consequences stink. I relate- my two kids spent both of their recess times today in time out. Ho hum, tomorrow's another day, right?

[AK_Mom4]

Have her run a few laps around the outside of the house and try it again. Sometimes the brain needs to be jarred loose when it gets stuck.

[Blueridge]

I would kindly put it away, and start the same lesson fresh tomorrow.

[I.Dup.]

I totally understand.

[lauranc]

She has been sitting for 2.5 hours over the same 2 pages of math, which she is perfectly capable of doing with a little effort and persistence. She is under the mistaken belief that if the answer does not come to her immediately then it is too hard. I've talked persistence and hard work blah blah blah. She weeps and stares into space.

 

I don't need advice, just need a place to vent. She is apparently going to spend her day in that chair, and then cry that we had no time to go buy the art supplies she needs for her art class on Thursday, and it's all by her own choice. Arrggh.

 

:confused: I've seen posts saying similar things before-- and talked with other people IRL who also do this. I always find it curious to have a kid sit for hours crying over a subject.

 

It's a power struggle I wouldn't care to engage in. To each her own though...

 

Good luck with the rest of your day.

[Plucky]

I would kindly put it away, and start the same lesson fresh tomorrow.

 

I agree. BTDT. I know you said you didn't want advice, but by the time a kid is in meltdown mode the brain has shutdown. It's not gonna happen, mom. :grouphug:

[nmoira]

I would kindly put it away, and start the same lesson fresh tomorrow.

This.

 

My 10yo perfectionist sometimes just isn't up to it, and I find that a little understanding and empathy go a long way. Letting her know it's OK to regroup to come at it fresh later is, IMHO, a more valuable lesson time management than forcing her to sit for hours feeling horrible about herself.

[Parrothead]

:grouphug: to her and you.

[Susan C.]

It might be too hard. Really. I went through that, and every year was like that. Stupid me, I should have backed it up a year (I eventually did, in high school, and this dc has it ingrained into him that he is just not good at math). Math should be on the easy side until they are good at it, or they won't remember it. And you do want them to like math, not dread it.

[NorthwestMom]

Update: DD is now painting her art project. :)

 

The math is for a co-op class she attends on Thursdays, so she only has one more day to finish it. I was very confident she could do the work if she persisted in working through the problems. DD is very emotional and perfectionistic, so not knowing the answer instantly is very difficult for her. However, it is a feeling she needs to get used to as she progresses through math. ;) I was not forcing her to sit - she did take a break and played piano, and read some Harry Potter. I was available to help her if she asked. However, we were not about to go to the highly desired craft store if she could not finish a reasonable assignment.

 

@Dot - kids are so individual. My older DS and younger DD do not sit and cry at their work. I am a big believer in being comfortable with making mistakes and trying again. There is no shame in being wrong. DD is just very quick to cry. At 10 that is a behavior we need to address, as that is not age-appropriate in other venues. She needs to learn to tolerate frustration and persist.

 

I am LOLing at the idea I am a taskmaster. I'm imagining myself in a superhero costume with a capital "T" on the front. :lol: Love it!!!

[justLisa]

My favorite quote from SWB is from her lecture on talking about teaching writing to littles:

 

"Crying is an inarticulate response to frustration."

 

I remind myself this. So much as a curled lip and I immediately put a hand on their back or something gentle, quite my tone slightly and slow down my speech, and try to explain differently. Or, move the problem to the white board and work it together. You brain literally does need to "sleep on it." If DS is not getting something the first day on his own after my teaching portion, I just work a number of them out WITH him on the white board and then try the next day. Often it is a totally different story the next day.

[Susan C.]

As of mom of two grown art kids..... you have a long math road ahead of you, don't ask me how I know.... art and math are different sides of the brain. If your math years ahead are anything like mine were, be prepared to be on grade level, and that is it. No super hard math programs. Every time I tried to "get ahead" it bit me bad.

 

I just wanted to save the dear from the taskmaster, lol! I asked dd18 about it, her response was "art supplies."

[TranquilMind]

I would kindly put it away, and start the same lesson fresh tomorrow.

 

I would do this too. I pressured my youngest too much and it was simply a developmental thing. Both mine are teens now. It comes. Don't make her hate school at 10.

[NorthwestMom]

Review problems that she already mastered. They involved multiple steps, so several calculations had to be made to solve them. She couldn't just look at it and know the answer, which was frustrating to her, but she does know how to do all of the steps. She just didn't want do it. It was a rough start up from a weekend of camping with her best friend's family.

 

Thankfully all the math is done now. :001_smile:

[lauranc]

Glad she's moved on to the art project-- and the math got done in the end.

 

In your OP, it sounded like 2.5 hrs of forced sitting--- but guess it was less stressful than all that!

 

 

I was not forcing her to sit - she did take a break and played piano, and read some Harry Potter.

 

 

[5 Hikers]

BTDT! In defense of the OP you cannot let your child skip math everyday because they cry. I had a child who did this every single day. He never wanted to do his math. He would dawdle and sit at the table for hours instead of just attempting to answer the problems. He would be years behind in math if left to his own devices. Not all school subjects can be fun and games.

 

Instead of skipping an art store, I made him skip lunch. So, it sounds light to me.

 

I must say when I told him he could not eat until his Math was finished, he suddenly finished it in 20 minutes. From that day on I have never had another problem with him completing his math.

[ktgrok]

At that point I had a talk, a stern talk, with my son. I told him that it was no longer about the math. That at this point I barely cared if he could do it or not. What I did care about was his character. That this was no longer about the math, but about who he was as a person. Was he the kind of person that gives up when something gets hard? Or the kind of person that rolls up his sleeves and keeps at it until the job is done?

 

Then, I sent him to work on it in his room. Turns out that the crying and whining and such is not much fun if there isn't an audience :)

[ktgrok]

You say you don't want advice,but I'll go ahead and just say how wrong I think you are. Kids can be dramatic, they can be tired/hungry, or in a cr@ppy mood. Letting her sit for hours, and also not have art supplies needed for class, will just make her more upset at you, not herself. I don't know how long you've been schooling her, but you may be in store for a really unhappy trip.

...I'd let her blow off some steam while explaining she WILL try again at a later time, then let her go on to a different subject. This is not public school, right, where missing a lesson of math will put her behind....I think I'd be upset with myself if my son ever cried because he was upset with learning. I took this path to give my son a love for learning, not to be a taskmaster that lets a child cry for hours.

 

That was my take too, until I realized that my son would do it over and over and over again if I let him. If instead I sent him to work without an audience, and reminded him that quitting was not the kind of thing I expected from him, he would get it done quickly and without further drama. Now, if i knew he was hungry, or getting sick, I'd let him take a break. But just whining because he doesn't want to do it? nOpe, that doesn't work here.

[LibraryLover]

She is 10. Give her some cheese (or a nut butter if you're vegan) and crackers, or a hard-boiled egg (if you're not a vegan). Give her a chore. (Walk the dog, feed the chickens, put water in a dog bowl, dust the paino together.) Read her a chapter from a good book while she snacks. Snuggle her up. Have her take a nap, or curl up with a chapter on her bed --and then come have her do her math.

 

There is no upside to making each other miserable.

Edited May 30, 2012 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

BTDT! In defense of the OP you cannot let your child skip math everyday because they cry. I had a child who did this every single day. He never wanted to do his math. He would dawdle and sit at the table for hours instead of just attempting to answer the problems. He would be years behind in math if left to his own devices. Not all school subjects can be fun and games.

 

Instead of skipping an art store, I made him skip lunch. So, it sounds light to me.

 

I must say when I told him he could not eat until his Math was finished, he suddenly finished it in 20 minutes. From that day on I have never had another problem with him completing his math.

 

 

That sounds like a recipe for tears right there. We homeschool so we can do it better than schools. I don't care if it 'worked'. I'm better than that.

[Jamee]

Review problems that she already mastered. They involved multiple steps, so several calculations had to be made to solve them. She couldn't just look at it and know the answer, which was frustrating to her, but she does know how to do all of the steps. She just didn't want do it. It was a rough start up from a weekend of camping with her best friend's family.

 

Thankfully all the math is done now. :001_smile:

 

I think it comes with the age. My son really struggled too because he couldn't just write an easy answer like he was used to with basic math. We are still trying to get it through to him that math is going to become more complicated. Good luck to both of you.

[LibraryLover]

Yeah!! :D

 

:) But understand that I am not saying that anyone who is not radically unschooling never has tears. Those kids are human; everyone cries sometimes, although for different reasons. MY feeling is that parents have to *be* there. Don't send a little kid off alone with a boatload of work. The child and parent both have to be well-nourished; you can't forget to eat. Realistic expectations are also paramount.

 

People also need to be reminded that 10 yr olds are young children, even if you are the parent of 6, and your 10 yr old is the oldest: that 10 yr old is still a child.

Edited May 30, 2012 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

I don't unschool by any stretch of the imagination. I guess I just try to be sensitive to who my kids are as individuals. This isn't to say, as you said, there are never tears and that I never put my foot down about stuff. I figure I'm homeschooling so I can meet my child's individual needs.

 

And I especially agree on being there.

 

Not trying to pick on the OP. I have days where I think my kids are just trying to get away with not doing anything.

 

 

:001_smile:

 

And hey! Every single day I try to get away with doing only what I wish to do. :tongue_smilie::auto:

[5 Hikers]

That sounds like a recipe for tears right there. We homeschool so we can do it better than schools. I don't care if it 'worked'. I'm better than that.

 

 

KUDOS to you for thinking you're better. I don't need to judge people or claim MY WAY is better to make myself feel good.

 

Each child is given to their parents for a reason...because that parent knows best how to parent their child.

[LibraryLover]

KUDOS to you for thinking you're better. I don't need to judge people or claim MY WAY is better to make myself feel good.

 

Each child is given to their parents for a reason...because that parent knows best how to parent their child.

 

 

I was talking about *me*, not you.

 

And again, not you. but I see a lot of very bad parenting. Parents do not always know best. Sometimes they do more harm than good.

[myfunnybunch]

Have her run a few laps around the outside of the house and try it again. Sometimes the brain needs to be jarred loose when it gets stuck.

 

This.

 

Physical activity is a good way to deal with a kid who's stuck, mentally or emotionally. :) At 10, kids haven't always figured out yet how to get themselves unstuck.

 

Cat

[LibraryLover]

I think you took that the wrong way.

 

And I don't agree parents always know best. Does the parent who beats the crap out of their child know best? Unfortunately not all parents know best. I will never claim to always know best. I appreciate advice/ideas/suggestions from other parents and don't think I'm too perfect to listen to some of it.

 

I agree the OP likely knows the situation better than anyone here, but I personally think it's harsh to make a kid sit for hours crying over math.

 

 

Yes. Thanks. I find one needs to be creative. Maybe a child is crying because they are hungry, or tired, or just plain frustrated/not getting it. Taking food away wouldn't be a creative way for me to handle it. IGiving some food might help, depending on blood sugar needs. Some kids need protein snacks, some don't. What does SWB say? When things get dicey try a shower, a sandwich, or a nap? Not sure the correct quote. But it sounds more creative and effective than tears and punishment. 10 is a teary age to begin with.

Edited May 30, 2012 by LibraryLover

[ktgrok]

I agree the OP likely knows the situation better than anyone here, but I personally think it's harsh to make a kid sit for hours crying over math.

 

The child CHOSE to sit there for hours crying over math. She had another alternative, just DO THE WORK and be DONE! It was review, it wasn't too hard, she just didn't want to do it. That was her choice.

[LibraryLover]

The child CHOSE to sit there for hours crying over math. She had another alternative, just DO THE WORK and be DONE! It was review, it wasn't too hard, she just didn't want to do it. That was her choice.

 

 

If the child truly had a choice, she probably would have gotten up, done something else for a bit, maybe had a sandwich, and gone back to it refreshed.

 

I don't know the child, but sometimes parents need to step in and help a child consider the options. There was no choice but to stay and finish her math. Maybe the kid is a brat, I don't know. Still, even brats need guidance to make good choices.

[Plucky]

Still, even brats need guidance to make good choices.

 

I know I do. LOL When I hit a wall and get frustrated I know that I have to take a break. It's usually when I am taking that break or doing something that inspiration or even a new motivation invigorates me to go back to the task.

 

Now I know that kids may not be like that, but I often tell my own kids to take a break when it is obvious that they are hitting a wall of frustration, too. Then later they can go back to it. By being consistent a child learns that yes, they need to do the task, chore, lesson, but maybe they can do it later when their mind isn't fuzzy from frustration.

 

My kids are pretty responsible even though I work this way, oh and I screw up sometimes too. Empathy and consistency in parenting really go a long way in my opinion.

[LibraryLover]

I know I do. LOL When I hit a wall and get frustrated I know that I have to take a break. It's usually when I am taking that break or doing something that inspiration or even a new motivation invigorates me to go back to the task.

 

Now I know that kids may not be like that, but I often tell my own kids to take a break when it is obvious that they are hitting a wall of frustration, too. Then later they can go back to it. By being consistent a child learns that yes, they need to do the task, chore, lesson, but maybe they can do it later when their mind isn't fuzzy from frustration.

 

My kids are pretty responsible even though I work this way, oh and I screw up sometimes too. Empathy and consistency in parenting really go a long way in my opinion.

 

:) Yes. When my kids start crying over something simple, I know we need to regroup. They need to do it, but at 10, it doesn't have to be *that* minute if they are freaking out. Walking away for a bit does help. Also, some children panic at tests etc., even if taken at home. They can work themselves into a frenzy. Parents need to help them through that in a way that will help a young child learn to manage this stress. Even if we think it's easy and nothing to stress over, it might not be so for the younger child. As they get older, and understand about timed tests, ACT, SAT etc., they have learned some emotional coping stratigies. (Not like you can get up and take a shower during an AP exam. :))

Edited May 30, 2012 by LibraryLover

[RanchGirl]

Have her run a few laps around the outside of the house and try it again. Sometimes the brain needs to be jarred loose when it gets stuck.

 

This works *miraculous wonders* in our household when a child is stuck on something "too hard". I've started doing the same when I am stuck on something at work myself, I take the stairs down to the lobby and make a quick loop around the building.

[NorthwestMom]

If the child truly had a choice, she probably would have gotten up, done something else for a bit, maybe had a sandwich, and gone back to it refreshed.

 

The child was not forced to sit. DD took several breaks. I don't believe in physical punishment of any kind.

 

I don't know the child, but sometimes parents need to step in and help a child consider the options.

 

I was there for help and support the entire time. I was calm towards DD. She was full of angst and self-hate for not instantly divining the answer by merely looking at the problem.

 

There was no choice but to stay and finish her math. Maybe the kid is a brat, I don't know. Still, even brats need guidance to make good choices.

 

DD is not a brat at all. She is a perfectionist who tortures herself. It hurts my heart to see her put unrealistic expectations on herself. It is unrealistic to expect to know the answer to a multi-step math problem without doing all of the steps. The steps have to be done in order to get to the answer. Starting homeschool again after a fun weekend is not that fun. Crying does not change that fact. Crying does, however, stress me out to listen to after a time.

 

It is roughly equivalent to me looking at my dirty laundry pile and crying because it isn't clean and folded. I have to do all the steps in order to get to the end result. I know how to do laundry - now I have to do it. Crying does not help or change anything.

 

Wow, okay. What a thread.

[LibraryLover]

DD is not a brat at all. She is a perfectionist who tortures herself. It hurts my heart to see her put unrealistic expectations on herself. It is unrealistic to expect to know the answer to a multi-step math problem without doing all of the steps. The steps have to be done in order to get to the answer. Starting homeschool again after a fun weekend is not that fun. Crying does not change that fact. Crying does, however, stress me out to listen to after a time.

 

It is roughly equivalent to me looking at my dirty laundry pile and crying because it isn't clean and folded. I have to do all the steps in order to get to the end result. I know how to do laundry - now I have to do it. Crying does not help or change anything.

 

Wow, okay. What a thread.

 

 

Thanks for this. It's hard to have a perfectionist child (I have 2). It's challenging. 10 is also a crying kind of age. Take it easy. When she cries tell her to get up and do something else. Then come back. Crying also stresses me out. I would make her stop and come back, however long it took. Her choice is when to do it without crying.

 

Are you sure she understands the work? Does she need you to go over the steps with her several more times?

 

I was sure she wasn't a brat...I was thinking about other brats, and trying to lighten up.

[5 Hikers]

I agree the OP likely knows the situation better than anyone here, but I personally think it's harsh to make a kid sit for hours crying over math.

 

 

Then you would be horrified to know that I spank my children until they reach puberty, that I have sent them to bed without dinner for misbehaving, that I have thrown away toys for not sharing or misusing, and that I let them all cry it out at night at the tender age of 4months old.

 

What is sad is that I don't judge other moms for not choosing those things, but some moms think they are better because they do not do those things. It is not better just different.

 

It is sad to find parents abusing children, but that is not most cases.

 

I hope more than anything to teach my children to put others before themselves. I feel that by letting my child dawdle over math all day just because he doesn't like it is a disruption to everyone else. We cannot go on with our day due to said child's mood. I feel that Allowing your child to be coddled over it, to be allowed treats and tv time, is teaching him that life is all about him. He must do school because it is the law, and he must do it timely because life isn't all about him. There are 2 other children in this house and a world of people out there to think about instead.

[Munchkins_mama]

I could have written the same original post this morning! Ugh! My 10yoDD sat at the table for over an hour to do 6 math problems on a topic that I KNOW she understands. The reason she sat so long is because she kept guessing the answer and getting it wrong, instead of doing the steps. *sigh.

 

Her punishment for torturing me ( and her sisters!) with her whining was to do worksheets of times tables. She HATES them passionately. But the whole purpose of that punishment is to teach her that even if it is easy, you still have to slow down and go through all the steps to get the answer. Taking shortcuts will take you longer in the end.

 

10yo Girls are soooo emotional and moody. Oy! She is my oldest and I wasn't ready for this drama.

[Scuff]

I'll be a voice of encouragement among the criticism. If you know she can do it, let her sit. I've had kids try this before. They always get it done quickly when they finally decide they're goig to do it. Usually it's after thwy are good and hungry and everyone else is off having fun. They only do it a few times, but those days sure are fun for mom.

 

 

ETA- this is an area where it takes wisdom as a mom. There are days when I know they don't understnad and need to put it away for the day. There are times when they need to reset their brain by taking a small break or running up and down the stairs. Just today i let dd out of her math. She insisted the last few days on doing her MM independently. Turns out she wasn't reading the directions and therefore didn't know how to do the lesson properly. So yesterday she redid a lesson and a half and today she was supposed to finish that lesson and do todays lesson. After working on the lesson for awhile, her brain needed to be done. So I told her to put it away for the day. But that's a different situation than i get from the op. When they are just being stubborn, they need to learn that they are required to work anyway.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Scuff

[myfunnybunch]

I feel that by letting my child dawdle over math all day just because he doesn't like it is a disruption to everyone else. We cannot go on with our day due to said child's mood. I feel that Allowing your child to be coddled over it, to be allowed treats and tv time, is teaching him that life is all about him.

 

Hold on, just a minute. The choices aren't: Make your child sit crying until the work is done, or Give them treats and tv. That's not a reasonable leap.

 

In my house, it would be far more disruptive to spend hours with a crying child sitting over one subject. It takes 15-20 minutes to redirect a frustrated to the point of crying child to a physical activity then back to the math, which is usually done in 20 more minutes. But that's my house and my kid.

 

The choices presented here really are several: Let the child sit until she finishes the work (which is what ended up working for the OP); get the child moving and let her get back to it; let the child do the math at another time; sandwich and shower; help the child regroup in some other way.

 

Letting the child sit for 2.5 hours worked for the OP. Other suggested approaches work for other parents. So let's not turn this into an argument over a set of false choices: Let poor Darling sob uncontrollably and starve over her math problems versus coddling, pampering and revolving the universe around little Darling. Neither of those approaches were presented in this thread.

 

Cat

[Cricket]

DD is not a brat at all. She is a perfectionist who tortures herself. It hurts my heart to see her put unrealistic expectations on herself. It is unrealistic to expect to know the answer to a multi-step math problem without doing all of the steps. The steps have to be done in order to get to the answer. Starting homeschool again after a fun weekend is not that fun. Crying does not change that fact. Crying does, however, stress me out to listen to after a time.

 

It is roughly equivalent to me looking at my dirty laundry pile and crying because it isn't clean and folded. I have to do all the steps in order to get to the end result. I know how to do laundry - now I have to do it. Crying does not help or change anything.

 

Wow, okay. What a thread.

 

BTDT. My oldest just turned 14 and is finally coming out of it. My 11 yo ds is starting now. He took the longest time to finish math the other day! He HATES three-digit multiplication. They both get frustrated with multi-step math problems as well. They want to know the answer quickly and move on. The less thinking, the better!

 

I've handled my situations the same as you. Throw in a few breaks but they still need to do the work. Sounds like you did fine. She finished and still got to work on her art project. Also, it's amazing how fast they can finish those problems (and correctly too!) if they know as soon as they are done they can go swimming, get ice cream, watch a movie,or whatever else they want to do that is fun. They just need to fix the attitude in their brain. We are here to help them do that.

 

ETA: I totally agree with you that starting back after a fun-filled weekend is not very fun!

[LibraryLover]

Hold on, just a minute. The choices aren't: Make your child sit crying until the work is done, or Give them treats and tv. That's not a reasonable leap.

 

In my house, it would be far more disruptive to spend hours with a crying child sitting over one subject. It takes 15-20 minutes to redirect a frustrated to the point of crying child to a physical activity then back to the math, which is usually done in 20 more minutes. But that's my house and my kid.

 

The choices presented here really are several: Let the child sit until she finishes the work (which is what ended up working for the OP); get the child moving and let her get back to it; let the child do the math at another time; sandwich and shower; help the child regroup in some other way.

 

Letting the child sit for 2.5 hours worked for the OP. Other suggested approaches work for other parents. So let's not turn this into an argument over a set of false choices: Let poor Darling sob uncontrollably and starve over her math problems versus coddling, pampering and revolving the universe around little Darling. Neither of those approaches were presented in this thread.

 

Cat

 

I agree with your logic.

Edited May 31, 2012 by LibraryLover

[justLisa]

Then you would be horrified to know that I spank my children until they reach puberty, that I have sent them to bed without dinner for misbehaving, that I have thrown away toys for not sharing or misusing, and that I let them all cry it out at night at the tender age of 4months old.

 

What is sad is that I don't judge other moms for not choosing those things, but some moms think they are better because they do not do those things. It is not better just different.

 

It is sad to find parents abusing children, but that is not most cases.

 

I hope more than anything to teach my children to put others before themselves. I feel that by letting my child dawdle over math all day just because he doesn't like it is a disruption to everyone else. We cannot go on with our day due to said child's mood. I feel that Allowing your child to be coddled over it, to be allowed treats and tv time, is teaching him that life is all about him. He must do school because it is the law, and he must do it timely because life isn't all about him. There are 2 other children in this house and a world of people out there to think about instead.

 

Yes, hitting children does make one a bad mother. And letting a tiny baby scream his head off and risk choking to death....yeah. That's nice.

 

You are making a joke of yourself. "From the TENDER age of 4 months?"

Edited May 31, 2012 by 425lisamarie