PiCO Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I am now a former Johnny Depp fan... Depp as Tonto http://nativeappropriations.blogspot.com/2012/03/johnny-depp-as-cultural-appropriation.html I hope it doesn't end up as bad as it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't understand why they couldn't have found a First Nations actor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't understand why they couldn't have found a First Nations actor... Or as the blogger said, at least talked to a Native American about what Tonto might have looked like. How insulting. The Depp quotes about his "Native heritage" are what really turned me off though. (I know... I really shouldn't read anything about actors if I ever want to enjoy their movies.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why is JD playing the sidekick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) He looks like an idiot. It is racist and stupid. Too bad they don't have Donna Reed to play Sacajawea again, Hollywood how far you have not come. Edited March 11, 2012 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Oy. My first thought was anything Johnny Depp is okay with me. Then I clicked on the link. And read his quotes. Oh, no, no, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Errr...I'm a little torn here. I agree that he's not full NA, but most people are mixed these days. Johnny Depp has said in the past that he's part NA, and that he thought he was Creek or Cherokee. Also, they have released the info on the inspiration for the makeup: http://www.manataka.org/page1027.html I agree that his quotes are questionable, but...well, he's always saying something stupid. He is one of those people who should learn to keep his mouth shut. He has too many fake deep thoughts that he hasn't *really* thought through. eta: I do agree about mixing various NA cultures. It *is* always annoying when you have a Eastern Woodland Indian with a plains headdress and such. Edited March 11, 2012 by Mrs Mungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 According to the quote in the article, he thought he might be part 'Creek'. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Errr...I'm a little torn here. I agree that he's not full NA, but most people are mixed these days. Johnny Depp has said in the past that he's part NA, and that he thought he was Creek or Cherokee. Also, they have released the info on the inspiration for the makeup: http://www.manataka.org/page1027.html I agree that his quotes are questionable, but...well, he's always saying something stupid. He is one of those people who should learn to keep his mouth shut. He has too many fake deep thoughts that he hasn't *really* thought through. That is a painting, it is here http://kirbysattler.sattlerartprint.com/ But that picture is a "costume" it is not native dress. It is a representation of Crow. Is he claiming to be a Spirit? Also, Tonto is not Chippewa, he is Potawatomi....at least he was... That is like having someone in a story be French and have them running around in Lederhosen, waving around beersteins, and invading Poland. Edited March 11, 2012 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 That is a painting, it is here http://kirbysattler.sattlerartprint.com/ But that picture is a "costume" it is not native dress. It is a representation of Crow. Is he claiming to be a Spirit? I agree with you that it's a costume, *BUT* it's not like The Lone Ranger ever pretended to show NAs in any kind of real sense. Normally, I'm all over the cultural appropriation stuff. But, this is essentially a comic book character. I think in this case? To *me* (not saying anyone else should feel this way)? It *is* sort of like Norwegians suddenly not liking the way they are represented by the recent Thor movie. I'm sort of thinking aloud here, so bear with me. Ultimately, I think this is my problem: if you want to represent NA culture, then you wouldn't remake The Lone Ranger in the first place. So, why would anybody be the teeniest tiniest surprised that it's inauthentic? *That* is how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I agree with you that it's a costume, *BUT* it's not like The Lone Ranger ever pretended to show NAs in any kind of real sense. Normally, I'm all over the cultural appropriation stuff. But, this is essentially a comic book character. I think in this case? To *me* (not saying anyone else should feel this way)? It *is* sort of like Norwegians suddenly not liking the way they are represented by the recent Thor movie. I'm sort of thinking aloud here, so bear with me. Ultimately, I think this is my problem: if you want to represent NA culture, then you wouldn't remake The Lone Ranger in the first place. So, why would anybody be the teeniest tiniest surprised that it's inauthentic? *That* is how I feel. That makes sense. But I still think he looks like an ass. At least Thor looked cool. :lol: It would be like NAs going to the grocery store in Edited March 11, 2012 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Also, Tonto is not Chippewa, he is Potawatomi....at least he was... That is like having someone in a story be French and have them running around in Lederhosen, waving around beersteins, and invading Poland. Replying to your eta: Well, I think they easily could have changed Tonto's identity. Movies do that junk all the time. My dh gets *sick* of me explaining why this and that other thing is wrong in historical movies with people of *all types* of cultures. And military movies? Hoo-boy, then dh is the one droning on and on. Movies *always* get it wrong, no matter *whose* culture is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 That makes sense. But I still think he looks like an ass. At least Thor looked cool. :lol: :iagree:with you there, lol...and very hot, don't forget hot. Why can't we get a hot guy, THAT is worth being offended over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 :iagree:with you there, lol...and very hot, don't forget hot. Why can't we get a hot guy, THAT is worth being offended over. :lol: I edited to add a pic :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Meh. Its Hollywood, folks. Nothing but the almighty dollar speaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 :lol: I edited to add a pic :lol: LOL, still, I think movies do that all all the time. Haven't you SEEN a movie with housewives? They are never in yoga pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 LOL, still, I think movies do that all all the time. Haven't you SEEN a movie with housewives? They are never in yoga pants. Or maybe he is trying to disguise himself so other people don't know who it is running around with that guy in the mask? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Errr...I'm a little torn here. I agree that he's not full NA, but most people are mixed these days. Johnny Depp has said in the past that he's part NA, and that he thought he was Creek or Cherokee. Also, they have released the info on the inspiration for the makeup: http://www.manataka.org/page1027.html I agree that his quotes are questionable, but...well, he's always saying something stupid. He is one of those people who should learn to keep his mouth shut. He has too many fake deep thoughts that he hasn't *really* thought through. eta: I do agree about mixing various NA cultures. It *is* always annoying when you have a Eastern Woodland Indian with a plains headdress and such. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 According to the quote in the article, he thought he might be part 'Creek'. :glare: Why the quotes? There are those that think they're Cherokee, but end up being Creek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why the quotes? There are those that think they're Cherokee, but end up being Creek. As opposed to Cree, which is what Mrs. Mungo said. ETA: I don't trust Johnny Depp to actually get names right. I could completely see him mispronouncing 'Cree'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 As opposed to Cree, which is what Mrs. Mungo said. ETA: I don't trust Johnny Depp to actually get names right. I could completely see him mispronouncing 'Cree'. I just missed the k when I was typing, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 As opposed to Cree, which is what Mrs. Mungo said. ETA: I don't trust Johnny Depp to actually get names right. I could completely see him mispronouncing 'Cree'. Given that it's Cherokee "or"...Creek makes sense. My husband and I are also mixed with some NA. Not every family talked about it, but sometimes only briefly mentioned it. In my case, I wasn't raised with my father's family, but it doesn't mean we can't have some pride for that side of our heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Given that it's Cherokee "or"...Creek makes sense. My husband and I are also mixed with some NA. Not every family talked about it, but sometimes only briefly mentioned it. In my case, I wasn't raised with my father's family, but it doesn't mean we can't have some pride for that side of our heritage. Has nothing to do w/pride in heritage. Has everything to do w/my personal opinion that Johnny Depp is a bit of a twit. I think Mrs.Mungo expressed it as 'having deep thoughts that he actually hasn't thought much about'. Wolf's Metis, and I have First Nations in my heritage too, so I totally understand what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 That is like having someone in a story be French and have them running around in Lederhosen, waving around beersteins, and invading Poland. I'm sorry, all that made me think of was... Like having someone in a story be French who purportedly grows up on a vineyard and hire a British actor who is always drinking "Earl Gray, hot" and quoting Shakespeare... I think Johnny Depp looks ridiculous (and I've always liked Johnny Depp). What were they thinking??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth in MN Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 That man had better come up with a genealogy showing Native heritage STAT. The quote about "always with the Cherkee great-grandmother" really resonated with me. My ex-husband and his whole family claim to have one. I did the research - she's German. Yeah, they really like me ; ) lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Creek and Cree are two different groups. Around here, being Cherokee or Creek would be a normal thing to wonder about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Marmalade Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I don't understand why they couldn't have found a First Nations actor... But, the whole Lone Ranger originally didn't depict Native Americans in a true or good light. Would a First Nations actor even want to be a part of a re-make of such a thing? I would guess that if they have any pride in their culture, probably not. And if they did, what horrible flack would they get from their native culture when they portrayed the culture in such a poor way. They just really shouldn't have take The Lone Ranger to the big screen. There's no way to make everyone happy with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 But, the whole Lone Ranger originally didn't depict Native Americans in a true or good light. Would a First Nations actor even want to be a part of a re-make of such a thing? I would guess that if they have any pride in their culture, probably not. And if they did, what horrible flack would they get from their native culture when they portrayed the culture in such a poor way. They just really shouldn't have take The Lone Ranger to the big screen. There's no way to make everyone happy with this one. This is what I'm saying. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Has nothing to do w/pride in heritage. Has everything to do w/my personal opinion that Johnny Depp is a bit of a twit. I think Mrs.Mungo expressed it as 'having deep thoughts that he actually hasn't thought much about'. Wolf's Metis, and I have First Nations in my heritage too, so I totally understand what you're saying. ah, got it!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Or as the blogger said, at least talked to a Native American about what Tonto might have looked like. How insulting. The Depp quotes about his "Native heritage" are what really turned me off though. (I know... I really shouldn't read anything about actors if I ever want to enjoy their movies.) I've come to this conclusion too. But, I'm really, really surprised that Hollywood didn't find a First Nations actor. This just boggles the mind...have we gone back to the 60s?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm sorry, all that made me think of was... Like having someone in a story be French who purportedly grows up on a vineyard and hire a British actor who is always drinking "Earl Gray, hot" and quoting Shakespeare... I think Johnny Depp looks ridiculous (and I've always liked Johnny Depp). What were they thinking??! LOL- I always used to wonder about that too... although I do love Cpt. Piccard. and I agree... the outfit is ridiculous. It doesn't even LOOK Indian, and I know next to nothing about such things. Is this a serious movie or a spoof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) But, the whole Lone Ranger originally didn't depict Native Americans in a true or good light. Would a First Nations actor even want to be a part of a re-make of such a thing? I would guess that if they have any pride in their culture, probably not. And if they did, what horrible flack would they get from their native culture when they portrayed the culture in such a poor way. They just really shouldn't have take The Lone Ranger to the big screen. There's no way to make everyone happy with this one. A Mohawk First Nations actor played Tonto on the television program. So they went backwards from the casting of the 50s. Huzzah! Edited March 11, 2012 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 But, the whole Lone Ranger originally didn't depict Native Americans in a true or good light. Would a First Nations actor even want to be a part of a re-make of such a thing? I would guess that if they have any pride in their culture, probably not. And if they did, what horrible flack would they get from their native culture when they portrayed the culture in such a poor way. They just really shouldn't have take The Lone Ranger to the big screen. There's no way to make everyone happy with this one. It's Hollywood. They certainly could have changed things to make them far better. Instead, they went this route. Eeesh.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Like having someone in a story be French who purportedly grows up on a vineyard and hire a British actor who is always drinking "Earl Gray, hot" and quoting Shakespeare... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) LOL- I always used to wonder about that too... although I do love Cpt. Picard. LOL - I love him too. But could he be any more British? :lol: Edited March 11, 2012 by matroyshka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm sorry, all that made me think of was... Like having someone in a story be French who purportedly grows up on a vineyard and hire a British actor who is always drinking "Earl Gray, hot" and quoting Shakespeare... I think Johnny Depp looks ridiculous (and I've always liked Johnny Depp). What were they thinking??! :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Meh. Its Hollywood, folks. Nothing but the almighty dollar speaking. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm sorry, all that made me think of was... Like having someone in a story be French who purportedly grows up on a vineyard and hire a British actor who is always drinking "Earl Gray, hot" and quoting Shakespeare... :D:D No one yet has commented on the name Armand Hammer, I know it's a family name, but yet, who does that? I adore Johnny, and I saw the painting with the costume, but he may be eating a little crow on this wardrobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Now you've got me thinking what Picard would be like if he were actually played by a French actor - who would be good? Then I thought of that guy who won Dancing with the Stars a few seasons back - Gilles or something? That would be dreamy... but quite a different Picard! No Earl Grey for this guy, methinks. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Now you've got me thinking what Picard would be like if he were actually played by a French actor - who would be good? Then I thought of that guy who won Dancing with the Stars a few seasons back - Gilles or something? That would be dreamy... but quite a different Picard! No Earl Grey for this guy, methinks. :D He would have surrendered in the first episode. HAHAHAHAHA! .....Sorry :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 He would have surrendered in the first episode. :smilielol5: Making the captain supposedly French was silly. They should have made Riker French - that I could've bought more easily. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Forgetting the whole Native American issue for a minute, I think Johnny Depp looks comical-yet-creepy in all of that ridiculous makeup. (I know he's supposed to be quite the ladies' man, but I am beginning to seriously question that based upon his apparent extreme affinity for eyeliner. :rolleyes:) He looks more like he should be playing a deranged Avon-representative-turned-serial-killer in a horror movie. Not Tonto. Tonto was Nice. Not creepy. Honestly, the old TV Tonto looked a lot better than Johnny Depp; he may have been a man of few words, but at least he didn't look and dress like a complete idiot. And the movie will probably end up being rated PG-13, so it won't even be appropriate for the kids. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Forgetting the whole Native American issue for a minute, I think Johnny Depp looks comical-yet-creepy in all of that ridiculous makeup. (I know he's supposed to be quite the ladies' man, but I am beginning to seriously question that based upon his apparent extreme affinity for eyeliner. :rolleyes:) He looks more like he should be playing a deranged Avon-representative-turned-serial-killer in a horror movie. Not Tonto. Tonto was Nice. Not creepy. Honestly, the old TV Tonto looked a lot better than Johnny Depp; he may have been a man of few words, but at least he didn't look and dress like a complete idiot. And the movie will probably end up being rated PG-13, so it won't even be appropriate for the kids. :glare: oh my goodness, I'm laughing my head off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Now you've got me thinking what Picard would be like if he were actually played by a French actor - who would be good? Then I thought of that guy who won Dancing with the Stars a few seasons back - Gilles or something? That would be dreamy... but quite a different Picard! No Earl Grey for this guy, methinks. :D No.. too much of a pretty-boy. Daniel Auteuil would have been perfect, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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