For future knowledge - did I do the wrong thing?

[Scarlett]

One of my biggest fears as a parent is that somebody else's inner ghetto will trigger my inner trailer park, and I never want my kids to see that.

We tend to quietly leave if there's a problem. I watch my own dc very closely anytime we're away from home, so issues rarely escalate beyond the point that just quietly leaving would be successful.

 

I'm gonna put the bolded on a T-shirt! :D

[AuntieM]

I could *maybe* see them telling the mom to stay with him, but that wasn't the real issue was it? It was that he was being aggressive, which mall security probably wouldn't see as their duty to handle.

 

Unless it was Paul Blart, of course. ;)

 

ETA that I suspect the mom, as described by the OP, would have been too attentive or proactive in stopping the behaviors, even if she'd been 2 feet from him.

 

I agree with you about the "real" issue, but I do still think there were good grounds for calling mall security.

[Lolly]

:iagree:

 

I don't think you were wrong. 10 years ago this would have been a common practice. Now? Ghetto mom can threaten to punch her kid in the face, but if you guide her kid to her to avoid harm being done to your child?!?! Yep. The ghetto comes out. Now, if you had brought my snotty child to me, I would have thanked you and fixed the problem immediately. Of course, I would have been watching my kid and NOT threatening to punch them in the face, but that's irrelevent.

 

In general, people do not appreciate being told their children are misbehaving. I probably would have just given ghetto mom the stink eye and left. It stinks that the good kids have to suffer, but you just can't tell when you are dealing with a decent parents or a ghettolicious gangsta.

 

 

You have to go way further back that that. I was cursed out for touching a girl who was about 12 seventeen years ago. I was next in line at the mall for a toilet. The line went out the door. I had waited with dd (then 2 and newly lpotty trained). 4 girls sauntered into the restroom and got in front of everyone. As one started toward the next available stall, I loudly said, "Excuse me! You need to wait your turn." When she did not respond, I put my hand on her shoulder to get her attention. (Not roughly, just set it down on her shoulder.) I told her again, she made signs that she could not hear (neither could the other girls). I pointed to the end of the line and took the stall with dd. When I got outside the restroom, I was literally cussed out for touching a child who was not mine, by a teacher leading a field trip! I was quite stunned. I wish I had gotten the school's name from her. I just turned and walked away from the teacher.

 

op, I think you were fine.

[catz]

Whenever you have a problem like that at a mall, go into any store or kiosk in the mall and ask them to call security. Every store there has them on speed dial. :D

 

:iagree:

 

Absolutely, this mom was negligent and her kid sounds like a brat. However, I would never under any circumstances touch a stranger's child. I would not be ok with it if some stranger in a mall took my child by the arm for any reason (hard to imagine myself in these exact circumstances however - my kids never hit or bit). Some nutty people might react violently and there's the whole liability thing. I would have removed my child from the situation and would have eyed up the mom to see if she was approachable. A mom who said to her kid "I'm going to punch you in the face" to her kid probably wouldn't read as approachable to me. Otherwise, I might have found mall security if that was handy or just moved on. I do think mall security should know about a violent kid unsupervised in the mall playground, even if they appear to do nothing. If the same kids/mom shows up all the time and gets a series of complaints, maybe they will do something.

[ma23peas]

You did the best thing, removed a dangerous child, how else are you supposed to remove him...I did the exact same thing...a child was purposefully dunking strangers at the YMCA...kids were crying, running to their parents and I could see the parents tell their children to just avoid him...I saw him do it one more time (viciously making them struggle for air where or what the lifeguards were doing, I have no clue)...i walked right up to him and did exactly what you did, his mother was on her cellphone and did not want to be interrupted, I did anyway and told her if I caught him harming another child I would call the authorities...this mom listened when I said that and began whaling on the child...sigh...if she would have just kept an eye on him...heartbreaking.

[zaichiki]

I loudly said, "Excuse me! You need to wait your turn." When she did not respond, I put my hand on her shoulder to get her attention. (Not roughly, just set it down on her shoulder.) I told her again, she made signs that she could not hear (neither could the other girls). I pointed to the end of the line and took the stall with dd. When I got outside the restroom, I was literally cussed out for touching a child who was not mine, by a teacher leading a field trip! I was quite stunned. I wish I had gotten the school's name from her. I just turned and walked away from the teacher.

 

Now *that's* weird b/c if the girls WERE truly deaf, touching a shoulder to get their attention would be acceptable. I can't imagine the teacher would be upset with that. Any teacher who is used to working with deaf kids would get their attention this way from time to time. It is a socially acceptable thing to do in Deaf culture. Maybe the kids weren't really deaf? Maybe they were pretending?

[iquilt]

I would have not touched the child. I would have left the play area with my children when that family returned. I never found mall play areas to be worth the hassle of poorly behaved children and obviously sick children.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm gonna put the bolded on a T-shirt! :D

 

If you find a market for it I want 10%!

[Scarlett]

If you find a market for it I want 10%!

 

LOL....you got it.

[2cents]

I wouldn't have touched him or led him anywhere. It is just too risky. What I would have done (and have done) is stand near him and start yelling for the mother-loudly. Then LOUDLY ask that she control his behavior because he is hitting and threatening the other children. I would do it EVERY time he acted up. :)

[lynn]

I wouldn't have touched him or led him anywhere. It is just too risky. What I would have done (and have done) is stand near him and start yelling for the mother-loudly. Then LOUDLY ask that she control his behavior because he is hitting and threatening the other children. I would do it EVERY time he acted up. :)

 

 

:iagree:

[Lolly]

Now *that's* weird b/c if the girls WERE truly deaf, touching a shoulder to get their attention would be acceptable. I can't imagine the teacher would be upset with that. Any teacher who is used to working with deaf kids would get their attention this way from time to time. It is a socially acceptable thing to do in Deaf culture. Maybe the kids weren't really deaf? Maybe they were pretending?

 

Confused me. I'm certain they were. There was a whole school group in the food court. She may have been the one who told them to cut in line and got angry because I called the on it, making them late to leave the mall?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Very interesting conversation.

 

I've decided that I probably shouldn't have touched him - I don't even want to say grabbed, because that sounds forceful - and probably will consciously approach a similar situation differently next time (if there is a next time). However, I don't regret doing it at all. This boy took misbehaved to a whole new level. I've never encountered a child so blatantly disrespectful - and to a complete stranger at that.

 

I have a hard time imagining myself saying things loudly, etc. I would feel very self conscious. I really did act out of adrenaline. I did my best to intervene and protect my children and my friend's children when I could, but the child simply did. not. care.

 

I do believe mall security would've asked them to leave, as they do monitor the play area usually. They really weren't around much today though. It just didn't occur to me to get them. Next time though..... :)

[Tohru]

Our society is a mess.

 

So you don't get in trouble, I'd refrain from "touching" someone else's child. Take your child with you (to keep her safe) and tell the mother that her child is assaulting other children and if she doesn't put a stop to it, you'll have to protect the other children by calling mall security or the police.

 

:iagree:

 

You should NEVER touch a child you don't know, never, ever, unless they are hurt and no one else they know is around to help.

[Carol in Cal.]

You did the best thing, removed a dangerous child, how else are you supposed to remove him...I did the exact same thing...a child was purposefully dunking strangers at the YMCA...kids were crying, running to their parents and I could see the parents tell their children to just avoid him...I saw him do it one more time (viciously making them struggle for air where or what the lifeguards were doing, I have no clue)...i walked right up to him and did exactly what you did, his mother was on her cellphone and did not want to be interrupted, I did anyway and told her if I caught him harming another child I would call the authorities...this mom listened when I said that and began whaling on the child...sigh...if she would have just kept an eye on him...heartbreaking.

 

That's different--that's life and death, literally. You did everyone a favor. The lifeguards were negligent and should have evicted him far sooner.

[Little Nyssa]

A few days ago I pulled a child off an escalator. His whole family was going one way and was pretty far off when he decided to cut in front of me and go downstairs by escalator. This was in a large city airport. He was about 4.

His family realized he was going away from them and called down to him, but they were far off and he did not listen. I grabbed him and pulled him off the escalator and told him to go with his parents.

I am glad I did this, and the family thanked me, but there was a moment when he was struggling to pull away from me and go down the escalator, and I thought, "omg, I am grabbing somebody else's child!!" Fortunately it turned out OK but for a moment I wondered if I was doing the right thing.

I actually think you did right-- I have also had some experience telling a neighbor's child to stop throwing things into our yard at my children and his mother went absolutely ballistic on me-- HOWEVER when she thought I was out of earshot, she told them to cut it out. So no matter how she reacted she probably perceived that you were right. It's important that such people realize they can not rule the roost. I think you were right.

[TeenagerMom]

I would've done exactly as you did, OP. And when Mom threatened me with her "ghetto yanno" I would have told her to bring it on because if she was WATCHING her kid, I wouldn't have had to touch him. If she'd have hit me, then that's her night in jail, not mine. Our play area has security cameras that could be used as evidence that I did not harm her child.

 

But that's just my inner Redneck talking. I've had pretty positive (as in ticking people off because I called them on their crap) experiences. They either leave or actually start supervising their kids.

[Aggie]

I wouldn't have touched him or led him anywhere. It is just too risky. What I would have done (and have done) is stand near him and start yelling for the mother-loudly. Then LOUDLY ask that she control his behavior because he is hitting and threatening the other children. I would do it EVERY time he acted up. :)

 

 

My dh, a big, burly man, stood up and YELLED, "HEY!!" when some brat tried to punch our dd. Everyone in the county heard, stopped what they were doing, and women ran to grab their kids. It caught the brat's attention and he left our dc alone after that.:D

[Joker]

I once made the mistake of touching someone's child. It was before I had children - about 13 years ago. A mom was loading groceries into her van and her toddler wandered into traffic. I took her hand and led her to safety and towards her mom. The lady went crazy and didn't care about the traffic - only that I had touched her child. I've never again made that mistake. I just yell loudly if there is a problem.

[zaichiki]

My dh, a big, burly man, stood up and YELLED, "HEY!!" when some brat tried to punch our dd. Everyone in the county heard, stopped what they were doing, and women ran to grab their kids. It caught the brat's attention and he left our dc alone after that.:D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Prolly gave that kid nightmares!

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[In the Rain]

I am just non-confrontational and probably would have left instead.

 

I guess the idea of taking your dd out of harm's way and talking to the mother *might* have been better, but that mom sounds like she would have been unreasonable anyhow. I would want someone to let me know if one of my kids was causing trouble, but I always assume other mothers might get hostile. :001_huh:

[Tap]

I agree, to a point.

 

I'm sick and tired of having to remove well behaving children from a fun activity/place b/c there's another kid there that is completely misbehaving, and whose parent appears to either be completely clueless, or content to ignore everything.

 

Why is it that removing behaving kids seems to have become the default when it comes to these situations? How is that rewarding their positive behavior?

 

*This isn't actually directed at you, Tap. Just frustrated, as it seems ill behavior tends to get rewarded, ie misbehaving kid gets to stay, others have to leave*

 

 

 

I agree with you. But I have two peaceful children, who would have to be the ones removed (which I have done).... And, I have one aggressive child who has gone after other kids. I would not one anyone to touch her, any more than I would want anyone to touch one of my other kids. In this situation, it sounds like the aggresive kid's mom was part of the problem, but that won't be changed by the (non-aggressive kid's) parent walking a child out by his hand.

 

No matter how right or wrong the child's behavior, and adult shouldn't put a hand on another person's child unless it is completely unavoidable. Quite honestly, if someone grabbed my Dd5's hand, she would have freaked out and there would have been a bigger issue to deal with.

 

*just bantering back :D

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap

[*********]

Kristin, I witnessed a similar situation a week or so ago.

 

Two girfriends and I met up at a McDonalds Playplace. Just so happens that the local elementary school had a 1/2 day that day, so pretty soon the place was SWAMPED with kids.

 

Girlfriend A and I look over, and a STRANGER has Girlfriend B's son by the arm, holding firmly while speaking sternly to him. Girlfriend A jumps up and goes over to invtervene while I turn and tell girlfriend A (who was tending to her baby) that 'Hey, that lady has your son by the arm!'

 

It really, really upset all of us that this stranger had our friend's son by the arm.

 

Turns out stranger decided to scold girlfriends son for hitting another boy. So Girlfirend A collects her son and brings him back to find out what happpened. (I know this boy, he's not the type of kid to haul off and hit someone for no reason.) Well, Girlfriend B stays behind and, uh, gives the stranger a piece of her mind for grabbing the boy. It was really out of line. You just DON'T grab another person's kid. I mean, I'm surprised the boy didn't start kicking her and yelling; isn't that what we teach our kiids to do when a stranger grabs you?

 

Anyway, turns out the boy he hit was a much bigger boy who had him PINNED up against the wall. And he didn't even hit him; he pushed him to get away.

 

So all that to say, I don't think you should have touch the child. It's just not acceptable these days. I agree with a pp that you should have taken YOUR chldren, gone over to his mother, and informed her of what happened, and that if it happened again, you would have to contact security for the safety of your child. Yes, the mother still would likely not have responded 'well'. But the focus would not have been taken OFF of her child's bad behavior, and be put ON the fact that you put your hands on her child.

 

I understand you were trying to protect your children. But you could have done that without touching a stranger's kid. I also understand you had to react before really having time to think.

[WIS0320]

I'll be honest and say I have only read the OP.

 

OP - the mom is a whackadoo and completely out of line. I don't know that I would want to touch a child that wasn't my own BUT in the same situation I don't know that I would process all the finer details of that sort of thing and would just want to get the bullying child out of the play area and returned to his mother.

 

I really hate going into play lands or public parks because there is always one awful child knocking over smaller children, pushing, wanting to play Power Ranger and actually punch and kick other kids, etc. and just being a general jerk. They always have the parent along who seems to lack authority and any reasonable idea of appropriate public behavior and boundaries. I saw a kid pee right at the bottom of a slide once and the dad just sat on the bench and said nothing. Parenting competency is at an all time low.

 

Last week my children were at a local bounce house place and another bigger child was bullying my son (who turned 4 the week before and is on the smaller side) over a ball and inside one of the bounce houses where it was dark he pounced on him and sat on his head. Only knew there was a problem b/c my older child and a friend came streaming out of the bounce house screaming for help. The mother of that horrible, rotten child acted like it was no big deal. It is infuriating. The crappy parents just act like their child is entitled to be a total punk and public nuisance.

 

ETA: 6 months or a year ago there was a national news story about a dad boarding a bus and getting into a confrontation with his child's bully. He was arrested. No, I don't think that dad was necessarily in the right but at some point as a parent you just want to protect your kid. I empathized with that father just like I empathize with the OP.

Edited February 9, 2012 by drexel

[Jenny in Florida]

So all that to say, I don't think you should have touch the child. It's just not acceptable these days. I agree with a pp that you should have taken YOUR chldren, gone over to his mother, and informed her of what happened, and that if it happened again, you would have to contact security for the safety of your child. Yes, the mother still would likely not have responded 'well'. But the focus would not have been taken OFF of her child's bad behavior, and be put ON the fact that you put your hands on her child.

 

I understand you were trying to protect your children. But you could have done that without touching a stranger's kid. I also understand you had to react before really having time to think.

 

I'm afraid I agree. I don't think, short of immediate physical danger, that it's okay to touch another person's child without permission. As with so many other situations, I don't want anyone else grabbing one of my kids, and so I do not think it's acceptable to grab one of theirs.

 

Another thing to consider: You probably embarrassed the mother about her son's behaviour. As I understand it, abusive parents will often take out their anger over being embarrassed on their children when they get home. Obviously, this kid was a brat. But I doubt he will be made less bratty if his mothers takes him home and takes out her frustration on him.

 

In a similar situation, I hope I would have the presence of mind to involve mall security. My first instinct, though, would be to either remove my kids or stick close enough to them to intervene verbally if it became necessary.

 

You'd be surprised what "Mom voice" can do. When my son was younger, we were lined up outside the door of a theatre waiting to go in for a student matinee. The head usher at that time happened to share my son's first name. My kid got bored and started trying to climb a nearby railing. I spoke his name, sharply, and the poor usher who happened to be walking by nearly jumped out of his skin. My son still enjoys telling that story.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I just want to say that the mother didn't even seem the least bit phased by the fact that her son was doing these things. Her reaction reminded me of someone who knew they were doing something they shouldn't be and was just waiting to get caught. When they finally do, they just say "yeah, oops".

 

When I began stating what he was doing she just nodded and said "okay". She brought up me touching him after that. I immediately apologized, but restated why I had done it. She just said something about me touching him again and I realized I wasn't going to get anywhere and walked away. She took her son to the candy store and bought him something.

 

Maybe I'm misjudging her, but I don't think she was abusive - at least in that manner. I don't think it bothered her at all that her son was doing these things.

[Danestress]

I think we have a certain comfort zone in the realm of Moms and kids at the mall, even bad moms and rotten kids.

 

But think about it. If this kid had been there with a truly scary looking Dad, would you have done the same thing? Because you don't always know how scary someone is by how they look. Once this woman opened her big mouth, you got a glimpse of her character, and I think it was alarming.

 

I think you have to assume that everyone is armed and dangerous, even tough they may not be armed with something that shoots. You have no idea if a Mom at the mall is insane. Given what you had already witnessed, I would assume something was very very wrong with her, and would have steered clear. You also have no idea if that child has a disease and will bite you, will freak out at your touch, will have a total public tantrum aimed at you, etc.

 

I absolutely would not be confrontational about it, and I think you were confrontational to take someone else's child and lead him out of there. I would have gotten my kids out and alerted a security guard. I don't really care if you traumatized this woman's kid or upset her. She sounds like a jerk, and while he's a victim, that's not your problem. But for your own well being, I wouldn't advise you do what you did, and I can not believe anyone would say you should have responded in a more confrontational way.

 

I actually would have alerted security when I heard her threaten the child.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Honestly, I think it had more to do with my years of working with children in a teaching role (10+) than it did with being too comfortable because she was a mom. I think when faced with a situation that makes you react on instinct, I reverted back to my teacher self. Combine that with adrenaline, and Mama Bear and I simply acted without even thinking. It never even occurred to me that I had touched him and probably shouldn't have until she said something. And, quite honestly, if my kid had been acting like her son was and I wasn't watching him (which would never happen....I would've been on him immediately), I wouldn't have been surprised or bothered if someone had walked him/her out to me like I did him. Maybe I should be, LOL!

 

In any event, like I said earlier, I've decided that you all are right. I probably shouldn't have touched him, and won't in the future, however I don't regret what I did at all.

[Parrothead]

I would have gotten the manager and had him/her take care of it.