A surprising discovery about my child. Now what?

[AuntieM]

I have one that is highly math intuitive.

 

Just wait til you get to algebra and your student is required to "show his work." I couldn't dream up anything more frustrating for my kid if I tried!

 

I did have someone tell me once that with students like this, you do need to be sure to cover concepts, because while they can tell you the answer, they cannot always explain how they got to it.

 

I was also told that highly repetitive curriculum (such as Saxon's spiral integrated approach) often aggravate this type of student.

 

What a gift, though!

 

(Fwiw, I did not read all the replies.)

[Mrs Mungo]

My son did that with reading when he was just a wee squirt. Played with alphabet fridge magnets for a while and then suddenly started reading big long books, followed by demands to go to the library for books on human anatomy. Math's a whole other story, so no advice there, but I sympathize with the jaw-dropping realization aspect of it. :001_huh:

 

When my eldest was six she came to me and said, "this Homer book is really good." It was obvious she felt I had been holding out on her.

[Ibbygirl]

Wow Sahamama! That's amazing. Sounds like you have a genius there. :)

[kubiac]

As I always do, I vote for Kumon. Your kid will be able to progress at her own pace (whatever that may be), while still getting a substantial amount of practice.

[Pippen]

I have one that is highly math intuitive.

 

Just wait til you get to algebra and your student is required to "show his work." I couldn't dream up anything more frustrating for my kid if I tried!

 

I did have someone tell me once that with students like this, you do need to be sure to cover concepts, because while they can tell you the answer, they cannot always explain how they got to it.

 

 

.)

 

Funny story--

A mom on a forum I used to frequent had a similar kiddo who attended public school. Since NCLB younger students are frequently asked to explain how they got the answers because it's part of the testing. One day hers brought home a worksheet he'd done and he had the correct answer to every problem, but for the explanation part had written "The answer just popped into my head." every single time.

[jennsmile]

Funny story--

A mom on a forum I used to frequent had a similar kiddo who attended public school. Since NCLB younger students are frequently asked to explain how they got the answers because it's part of the testing. One day hers brought home a worksheet he'd done and he had the correct answer to every problem, but for the explanation part had written "The answer just popped into my head." every single time.

 

I love it. We use Rightstart math and it is like pulling nails for DS to explain on paper how he does anything. Partly it is he hates writing and the other part I am sure is he just does it so quickly in his head why bother writing it down. I was the same way. I hated having to show my work.

[Sahamamama]

Funny story--

A mom on a forum I used to frequent had a similar kiddo who attended public school. Since NCLB younger students are frequently asked to explain how they got the answers because it's part of the testing. One day hers brought home a worksheet he'd done and he had the correct answer to every problem, but for the explanation part had written "The answer just popped into my head." every single time.

 

:lol::lol: So funny.

[kidsnbooks8]

Me: What's one-third of 40?

Ha: Thirteen and one-third.

 

No pauses, just answers. We have never done more than abacus and bean counting with this child. She turned five last month. Help. I am out of my league.

 

 

WOW!!! That is amazing!! That is quite a challenge too. :001_huh:

 

 

I would have had to stop on think on this last one.(1/3 of 40) :tongue_smilie:

[In the Rain]

:lol::lol::lol: We said that! We said that! She is so..... ASSERTIVE! My mother calls her the Complicated, Deeply-Sensitive, Woe-to-Me Drama Queen.

 

This child has NEVER had an unexpressed thought. She must get the mathiness from her Daddy, and the rest from me. :tongue_smilie: LOL.

 

:lol:

 

Her natural mathiness is awesome!

[ThisIsTheDay]

I have one that is highly math intuitive.

 

Just wait til you get to algebra and your student is required to "show his work." I couldn't dream up anything more frustrating for my kid if I tried!

 

I did have someone tell me once that with students like this, you do need to be sure to cover concepts, because while they can tell you the answer, they cannot always explain how they got to it.

 

I was also told that highly repetitive curriculum (such as Saxon's spiral integrated approach) often aggravate this type of student.

 

What a gift, though!

 

(Fwiw, I did not read all the replies.)

 

To the OP, cool and exciting and scary!!

 

I have a child who "sees" numbers differently than the rest of us. After vowing to never use Singapore again, I chose Singapore for him, and he excelled.

 

I agree about covering concepts. Ds is 13 now, never got the hang of working out long division on paper, although he could figure it out in his head and a few scribbles. I had planned to give him an extra math year this year (because I could not teach algebra to any child for a second year in a row after the first one). He sailed through both Life of Fred Pre-Algebra books, taking only one Bridge for a second time. He'll be starting LoF's Introductory Algebra this month. I can't drag it out anymore, but I'm thinking it will be a far different experience for/with him than it was with my oldest . . .

[Supertechmom]

Having a child like this coupled with a very non mathy mom, my best advise is to please step out of their way. Seriously, you can't keep up and you can't teach this because they know the answer before you finish forming the question. So I grabbed singapore, miquin (sp?) and we practiced reading comprehension skills. Truly and really. He read his math lesson out loud to me and then I would ask him questions about what did you read, what does that mean to you, and then let him demo that knowledge by completing the workbook. I consulted the tg to miquin like twice in all the levels because he knew what to do. He self taught himself Singapore and Nem 1 and 2.

 

Because of the concept problem- not knowing how they got the answer- I started in 6 th grade - when emotionally he wouldn't break down into a mess of I don't know I don't know- with tracking back through Singapore and forcing (yes it was worse than pulling hen's teeth) him to explain and produce the answers in ALL the ways Singapore did. That was the extent of our math teaching. I'm glad I did that year or so of 2-3 times a week having "concept" lessons. It did make him stronger in math because those concepts that did eventually stump him were easier because he had the basis to work through them. He's now in 9 th self teaching dolacni algebra and structure book 2 and lial's Precal. He plans to take sat 2 math 1 this spring and goes into cal next year.

 

I did slow him down by when he sailed through a complete year's program ( and we typically did 3-4math programs every year because we also did ray's math and the keys to series as well) by doing practical math. He could total the grcoeries at the store before the scanner did and by 5 was po with me because I hadn't taught him about sales tax as his total was always lower than what I paid. Once I explained that, he could tell the total of grcoeries before the machine could. We learned sales tax, loan percentages, payments, and even amazed the bank guy once when he calculated our rate of interst and what our payments would be before the guy could with the calculator did. FUN FUN!!!

 

These kids are always challenging. I can only say let them lead the way and let them run and just try not to hold them back to terribly much. And be prepared for "math" language. While I look over a room of people and can you tell things like color of clothes, hair, he will describe the same group in terms of avg height, the number of kids, adults and the ratios and percentages. He'll conduct math problems in a mixture of decimals, fractions, ratios as he sees fit and which is easier to figure mentally. Drives me batty as I have to work out the equivalencies to see if he did the problem right.

 

Oh and when they seem overly frustrated in math, chances are they have jumped several levels and are trying to reinvent the math wheel. It's a good idea to have upper levels on hand to show them advance math. Don't be surprised if they snatch the textbook from you exclaiming why didn't you tell me this before now???? This is so much easier and exactly what I was doing in my head. ". And then they disappear for a few hours to read the math book.:D

 

They are fun though. I never need a calculator. Enjoy this ride !!!!

[Aelwydd]

Having a child like this coupled with a very non mathy mom, my best advise is to please step out of their way. Seriously, you can't keep up and you can't teach this because they know the answer before you finish forming the question. So I grabbed singapore, miquin (sp?) and we practiced reading comprehension skills. Truly and really. He read his math lesson out loud to me and then I would ask him questions about what did you read, what does that mean to you, and then let him demo that knowledge by completing the workbook. I consulted the tg to miquin like twice in all the levels because he knew what to do. He self taught himself Singapore and Nem 1 and 2.

 

Because of the concept problem- not knowing how they got the answer- I started in 6 th grade - when emotionally he wouldn't break down into a mess of I don't know I don't know- with tracking back through Singapore and forcing (yes it was worse than pulling hen's teeth) him to explain and produce the answers in ALL the ways Singapore did. That was the extent of our math teaching. I'm glad I did that year or so of 2-3 times a week having "concept" lessons. It did make him stronger in math because those concepts that did eventually stump him were easier because he had the basis to work through them. He's now in 9 th self teaching dolacni algebra and structure book 2 and lial's Precal. He plans to take sat 2 math 1 this spring and goes into cal next year.

 

I did slow him down by when he sailed through a complete year's program ( and we typically did 3-4math programs every year because we also did ray's math and the keys to series as well) by doing practical math. He could total the grcoeries at the store before the scanner did and by 5 was po with me because I hadn't taught him about sales tax as his total was always lower than what I paid. Once I explained that, he could tell the total of grcoeries before the machine could. We learned sales tax, loan percentages, payments, and even amazed the bank guy once when he calculated our rate of interst and what our payments would be before the guy could with the calculator did. FUN FUN!!!

 

These kids are always challenging. I can only say let them lead the way and let them run and just try not to hold them back to terribly much. And be prepared for "math" language. While I look over a room of people and can you tell things like color of clothes, hair, he will describe the same group in terms of avg height, the number of kids, adults and the ratios and percentages. He'll conduct math problems in a mixture of decimals, fractions, ratios as he sees fit and which is easier to figure mentally. Drives me batty as I have to work out the equivalencies to see if he did the problem right.

 

Oh and when they seem overly frustrated in math, chances are they have jumped several levels and are trying to reinvent the math wheel. It's a good idea to have upper levels on hand to show them advance math. Don't be surprised if they snatch the textbook from you exclaiming why didn't you tell me this before now???? This is so much easier and exactly what I was doing in my head. ". And then they disappear for a few hours to read the math book.:D

 

They are fun though. I never need a calculator. Enjoy this ride !!!!

 

I'm super impressed here. What does your son plan to study in college?

[Supertechmom]

I'm super impressed here. What does your son plan to study in college?

 

 

AH! I forget this way of thinking isn't normal. To meet him you probably wouldn't be impressed LOL! He can't spell or write a decent paper. It really reinforced the idea that I should be a facilitator of education and not a "teacher" LOL! He would drive a math teacher bonkers. his plans are MIT with a robotics engineering something something (I'm the bad mommy who tends to retreat to her happy land when this highly technical mathy guy starts chattering excitedly LOL! ) I know it involves math, programming, robotics and of course the welding degree to pay for it all.

[justamouse]

Wow, I'm in awe and happy for him and scared for you!:D

[Sahamamama]

Having a child like this coupled with a very non mathy mom, my best advise is to please step out of their way. Seriously, you can't keep up and you can't teach this because they know the answer before you finish forming the question. So I grabbed singapore, miquin (sp?) and we practiced reading comprehension skills. Truly and really. He read his math lesson out loud to me and then I would ask him questions about what did you read, what does that mean to you, and then let him demo that knowledge by completing the workbook. I consulted the tg to miquin like twice in all the levels because he knew what to do. He self taught himself Singapore and Nem 1 and 2.

 

Because of the concept problem- not knowing how they got the answer- I started in 6 th grade - when emotionally he wouldn't break down into a mess of I don't know I don't know- with tracking back through Singapore and forcing (yes it was worse than pulling hen's teeth) him to explain and produce the answers in ALL the ways Singapore did. That was the extent of our math teaching. I'm glad I did that year or so of 2-3 times a week having "concept" lessons. It did make him stronger in math because those concepts that did eventually stump him were easier because he had the basis to work through them. He's now in 9 th self teaching dolacni algebra and structure book 2 and lial's Precal. He plans to take sat 2 math 1 this spring and goes into cal next year.

 

I did slow him down by when he sailed through a complete year's program ( and we typically did 3-4math programs every year because we also did ray's math and the keys to series as well) by doing practical math. He could total the grcoeries at the store before the scanner did and by 5 was po with me because I hadn't taught him about sales tax as his total was always lower than what I paid. Once I explained that, he could tell the total of grcoeries before the machine could. We learned sales tax, loan percentages, payments, and even amazed the bank guy once when he calculated our rate of interst and what our payments would be before the guy could with the calculator did. FUN FUN!!!

 

These kids are always challenging. I can only say let them lead the way and let them run and just try not to hold them back to terribly much. And be prepared for "math" language. While I look over a room of people and can you tell things like color of clothes, hair, he will describe the same group in terms of avg height, the number of kids, adults and the ratios and percentages. He'll conduct math problems in a mixture of decimals, fractions, ratios as he sees fit and which is easier to figure mentally. Drives me batty as I have to work out the equivalencies to see if he did the problem right.

 

Oh and when they seem overly frustrated in math, chances are they have jumped several levels and are trying to reinvent the math wheel. It's a good idea to have upper levels on hand to show them advance math. Don't be surprised if they snatch the textbook from you exclaiming why didn't you tell me this before now???? This is so much easier and exactly what I was doing in my head. ". And then they disappear for a few hours to read the math book.:D

 

They are fun though. I never need a calculator. Enjoy this ride !!!!

 

Thank you for this. I so appreciate your insight. This whole past semester we have been looking forward to starting Singapore and Miquon with our oldest when we begin our new school year. I had thought to do Horizons K with the twins, just to keep things simple while I learned the ropes with the oldest in Singapore.

 

Now I'm having second thoughts about doing such a spiral program with the twins. With my oldest, I've felt that Horizons plods too much, but because it's all woven together, it's so hard to go faster (even when it's painfully repetitive and babyish in places, especially the 1st grade level).

 

We have the beginning levels of Singapore (1A-3B) and all of Miquon. The girls read well, so your advice to focus on reading comprehension (rather than math teaching) makes good sense. At the same time, I do want to understand the fundamentals of basic math for myself and as a teacher, so I've been working at it for a while. There hasn't been anything in all I've studied that could have prepared me for a five year old who instantly knows 1/3 of 40. ;)

 

I might test/teach to find each girl's working level for Singapore and then go on from there. Also, we could have a weekly Miquon lab for all the girls to do together. Thank you for the advice, especially the "give them the preview" tip. This is so true. I was explaining the "Outline of Arithmetic" to the seven year old and she said, "Division? I've been thinking about division lately, but we've only done all this addition and subtraction. I was starting to wonder if there was anything else. Good, now I know there's more. When can we learn this?" :001_huh:

[GinaPagnato]

I just think that is so exciting! The Tiger Mom in me would already be planning which university for her to attend and on which scholarship! :tongue_smilie:

 

Saddle up, mommy, cuz you're in for a ride! :)

[Supertechmom]

Thank you for this. I so appreciate your insight. This whole past semester we have been looking forward to starting Singapore and Miquon with our oldest when we begin our new school year. I had thought to do Horizons K with the twins, just to keep things simple while I learned the ropes with the oldest in Singapore.

 

Now I'm having second thoughts about doing such a spiral program with the twins. With my oldest, I've felt that Horizons plods too much, but because it's all woven together, it's so hard to go faster (even when it's painfully repetitive and babyish in places, especially the 1st grade level).

 

We have the beginning levels of Singapore (1A-3B) and all of Miquon. The girls read well, so your advice to focus on reading comprehension (rather than math teaching) makes good sense. At the same time, I do want to understand the fundamentals of basic math for myself and as a teacher, so I've been working at it for a while. There hasn't been anything in all I've studied that could have prepared me for a five year old who instantly knows 1/3 of 40. ;)

 

I might test/teach to find each girl's working level for Singapore and then go on from there. Also, we could have a weekly Miquon lab for all the girls to do together. Thank you for the advice, especially the "give them the preview" tip. This is so true. I was explaining the "Outline of Arithmetic" to the seven year old and she said, "Division? I've been thinking about division lately, but we've only done all this addition and subtraction. I was starting to wonder if there was anything else. Good, now I know there's more. When can we learn this?" :001_huh:

 

And that attitude is when I started "Here you read it out loud to me and then do however much you want to." We easily did math in the early years an hour or more simply because he wanted to. we easily manage to do 2-3 hours. A long time ago, I googled math picture books. There are tons of fun literature books on all levels that explain and cover various concepts beyond counting. we always had one of them every week for a reader to expose other math concepts we hadn't reached yet. I'll try to find my list if I still have it. I probably need to start math read alouds again with the next group of littles.

[Sputterduck]

What we do is Singapore Math at my son's pace (even if he wants to do hours worth in a day) with lots of supplemental stuff that I find on the internet. I cover all sorts of random stuff as supplements to keep him occupied. Someone said start Algebra as a joke, but if your little one understands it, don't hesitate. And, also, enjoy. Kids like that are a total joy to teach.

 

I just bought this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0794516297/ref=oh_o00_s00_i02_details because I thought he might enjoy it. I'm giving it to him on Friday. Hopefully it's a hit. :)

[freerange]

for a child like that, I'd try the placement tests for mep or singapore. MEPHas the advantage that if there are any holes you can just print off those sections.

[Pippen]

Oh and when they seem overly frustrated in math, chances are they have jumped several levels and are trying to reinvent the math wheel.

 

Be prepared for more than just frustration. I had one in ps first grade who was indignant that the teacher had stolen the math techniques he'd already thought up.:001_smile:

[cjzimmer1]

I have a highly math intuitive kid. When he was little I tried to do stuff with manipulatives and he HATED them. Would throw whatever I was trying to use on the floor, stare off into space and give me the correct answer. Horizons was an absolute disaster for him. Singapore was better but even that moved a little slow for him. We never used the workbook because it was too much repetition by the time we got through the lesson in the textbook and the problems there. He did Singapore grades 3-6 in about a year and a half.

 

When he was 7 he asked to do algebra. I didn't really believe he knew what algebra was so I ignored him. We ended up doing testing a few weeks after he turned 8. The result was that he was well beyond basic algebra simply on intuition. So we started algebra at 8. But because he was so young I felt I needed to "teach" him because he couldn't possibly figure this out on his own. After about a week he said "Mommy will you please not teach me and just let me read the book". He has self-taught math ever since. We used Harold Jacob's Algebra by the way.

 

Now he gets the most unique presents for his birthday, the thing he looks forward to every year, more than toys is ----- a new math book. We buy math text books and he reads them for fun. I have an entire shelf dedicated to Algebra and beyond and he can regularly be found reading them. Currently he is taking Calculus through Thinkwell but I expect next year we will try AoPS if we can swing it financially. He just turned 14 about a month ago.

 

I also just wanted to say while I'm good at math (and minored in it in college), that knowledge really hasn't been useful. This kid learns faster and easier than I can even remember what I learned from 15 years ago. On the rare occasions that he gets stuck, by the time I've read the problem and then back to the explanation of the problem (desperately trying to re-engage that lost math knowledge), he has figured out where he's stuck. I don't remember the last time I contributed anything meaningful to his math learning. Basically I just seek out resources that have good self explanations and then turn him loose.

[katilac]

Don't be too disappointed if this doesn't mean you have a math-loving, problem-gobbling kid in the future :tongue_smilie:

 

My oldest never shocked anyone with her math skills at a young age, while my youngest was often freakishly math-intuitive. Guess which one is more 'into' math 10 years later? They were both given a lot of 'math freedom' with an emphasis on concepts and figuring things out, access to lots of resources, games, and manipulatives, and so on. You just never can tell.

 

I'm hoping math grows on her when she gets to algebra & such, but, as she says, "Somehow I doubt it."

[sassenach]

We have a math genius in our hs group. He does Stanford classes designed for kids. I think I heard about something similar at MIT. He has been involved in those since he was 6.

[Night Elf]

Ds15 has such a difficult time trying to explain how he gets an answer in his head. He seems to think the process is irrelevant as long as he gets the correct answer. He's been using a dry erase board since he was 6 years old because he wrote very little and the markers were faster than pencil and paper. He's in Algebra 2 now and he gets frustrated with me and DH when we ask him to slow down and work a problem through steps. I don't know what to do with him.

 

Dd13 seemed to be a hurry and stop kind of learner. She would leap ahead beyond grade level and then at some point would hit a wall and burst into tears when she didn't understand the concept without some kind of explanation. When she finished Algebra 1 last year, I decided to make her repeat it with our accredited high school program. She actually doesn't care that she's repeating it because her other classes are time consuming and she considers math an easy 'A'. But she doesn't write out problems either. I grew up using a math notebook for instruction in class and homework problems. My kids don't get it.

[AuntieM]

Ds15 has such a difficult time trying to explain how he gets an answer in his head. He seems to think the process is irrelevant as long as he gets the correct answer. He's been using a dry erase board since he was 6 years old because he wrote very little and the markers were faster than pencil and paper. He's in Algebra 2 now and he gets frustrated with me and DH when we ask him to slow down and work a problem through steps. I don't know what to do with him.

 

...

 

My oldest "saw the light" when I finally sent him to an outside teacher for Advanced Math (10th grade). That teacher let him know that even with a correct answer, full credit could not be given on assignments or tests if work was not shown. I think my ds's competitive streak came into play here; he wanted to get high marks in the class and so he learned quickly how to show the work. Don't know if that would work for you, but it was a wonderful solution here.