I am distraught. RAD related

[Dobela]

another thing that makes my blood boil is all the training that foster parents have to go through, all the education they get. They are made aware of all these issues, but foster parent's aren't, or don't have to be, forever parents. Don't you think that same type of information should be given to the FOREVER family?

Let me just say that as a foster parent I received very little training. Stinking little.When our girls came to us and we began suspecting RAD, we were accused of setting up our home for failure and abuse. We were threatened with having them and our other child removed. We were accused of lying.

[Denisemomof4]

That is true. And we did receive training in RAD. But RAD kids can turn your world upside down so much that you don't even believe yourself when you suspect RAD. They make you doubt your sanity, and they are so good at playing people against each other that they convince everyone else that they are perfect angels. Even my dh didn't fully believe me until he sat in a little room at the therapy agency and watched over closed circuit tv as the therapists questioned dd. I was right beside dh, telling him exactly what dd would say in response to their questions. Dh didn't understand 1) how I knew what she would say and 2) why she would say the things she was saying. I knew. I had lived with it for 3 years by then.

 

What I think would best help adoptive parents is to have resources in place BEFORE the child comes home. Make the initial contacts. Have the initial meetings. Six months after the child arrives (or before, if necessary), have the child evaluated. If everything is fine, GREAT! If not, help is already available.

 

My homestudy agency had no idea that there was a RAD program at a different agency right here in our city. My adoption agency, which was located in another state, had a therapist on staff who told me, over the phone, without ever having met my dd, that I wasn't being loving enough to my dd and that's why she acted the way she did.

 

 

 

When we get mail from our placement agency, I rip it up and throw it away. I won't even read it. I hate them so much ... not because dd has RAD (they didn't come into her life until she was 10, so they had nothing to do with it) but because they LIED to me about tons of other things and did things to dd against our wishes that made life much harder for her and also ... I can't even talk about it. That plus the fact that their stupid cow therapist told me if I loved my dd enough, she wouldn't have RAD. B!tch.

 

Tara

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I could NOT handle that right now. I couldn't.

[Dobela]

Nancy Thomas has healed child killers. She has adopted several, healed them, then one in particular went on to be a nurse. I think she was in the documentary Child of Rage? I don't remember. You can read about this daughter I speak of on Nancy Thomas' site. There are more than one popular Nancy Thomas' out there so make sure you get the site which discusses RAD.

 

I bought her book "Dandelion On My Bed, Knife Beneath My Pillow" or something like that. I won't even open the book until I've found a good therapist who will help me as I read through it.

Her daughter's name is Beth that was healed. I have met her and spent time with her. She is just amazing. Nancy Thomas is honest about her short comings and how parenting children with RAD has effected her (in sometimes negative ways). The Dandelion book changed me.

[Denisemomof4]

Let me just say that as a foster parent I received very little training. Stinking little.When our girls came to us and we began suspecting RAD, we were accused of setting up our home for failure and abuse. We were threatened with having them and our other child removed. We were accused of lying.

 

there's another foster mom in my state that I've been in contact with. She is the one who told me of all the training she received. She, herself, was disgusted when she found out that the adoptive parents receive a tiny fraction of training and education that foster parents did. But that's in our state.

[Haiku]

 

I know I don't mention dh here, but as much as this is hard on him, the facts are that he gets to leave to go to the office, commute, etc. It's just different when you're away from the home a certain set number of days in the week.

 

Yup. My dh still has a tendency to make excuses for dd. I have to constantly remind him of all that we (I) have been through. Since he is not here for most of it, it doesn't have the same impact on him.

 

When he recently wanted dd to start going to therapy again, I told him he was welcome to take her. I was done with all the abuse hurled at me during counseling sessions. He had no idea of some of the things dd said to/about me in counseling because they were so horrifying I couldn't even talk about them to him.

 

Tara

[Denisemomof4]

Her daughter's name is Beth that was healed. I have met her and spent time with her. She is just amazing. Nancy Thomas is honest about her short comings and how parenting children with RAD has effected her (in sometimes negative ways). The Dandelion book changed me.

 

how? Do you think my statement is correct when I say I have to have a good therapist to help me keep strong as I read my way through that book? I've had the book for months and honestly haven't even opened it yet.

[Tap]

That is true. And we did receive training in RAD. But RAD kids can turn your world upside down so much that you don't even believe yourself when you suspect RAD. They make you doubt your sanity, and they are so good at playing people against each other that they convince everyone else that they are perfect angels. My home study agency had no idea that there was a RAD program at a different agency right here in our city. My adoption agency, which was located in another state, had a therapist on staff who told me, over the phone, without ever having met my dd, that I wasn't being loving enough to my dd and that's why she acted the way she did.

 

 

 

Tara

 

I agree, but I then wonder if the training was effective training. We received foster care training which did touch on RAD, but what I knew about it, I knew before that. She was 5mo and her second placement when she came to us. It was supposed to be temporary 2-4mths. The training we received was very light, compared to what I think parents really need to know. DD5 was very RADish when she was a baby. We stumbled onto an unlikely healing when she was a bit older but still a baby (she got very sick, slept on my chest for a week 24/7 and finally attached to me). Dh and I suspected that she had RAD for a while before this but didn't seek out treatment because we thought she was going back to the bio-parents. She was obviously attached to bio-dad, as I observed their weekly visitations. I was reading at home, and trying different things that we had read, but as a foster parent, I wasn't really concerned that she didn't attach to me as a 'full' parent, because she was going back to her bio-home 'very soon'.

 

At 1yo the bio-parents started backing off of their responsibilities, and by 2yo

she was placed with us permanently. That is when we started formal therapy. I would guess this happens a lot in the foster system. I don't think we are unique. But, it is a dangerous game to play and I didn't understand it until after I really began to research RAD. I wonder how many well meaning foster parents (or family-foster for that matter, like we are) make this grave mistake without ever really realizing the consequences until it is too late. I also wonder if they would have granted us attachment therapy, since the goal of foster is always reunification. I would expect attachment therapy to be seen as a move against reunification. :confused: I really don't know. Another foster parent would have to chime in on that aspect since she was our only placement.

 

I would want to see attachment therapy to be put in place for all children with RAD symptoms, whether there was a planned reunification or not. I almost wonder if the little bit of knowledge we did have was more harmful or helpful.

[Dobela]

how? Do you think my statement is correct when I say I have to have a good therapist to help me keep strong as I read my way through that book? I've had the book for months and honestly haven't even opened it yet.

No, I don't think you will have to have a good therapist to help you read it. I read it while we had the girls, before we disrupted the adoption, and would occassionally talk about something in it with one of their therapists, but mostly kept it to myself. The chapters alternate between the more severe kids and the story of Beth so it isn't all heavy all the time. It also starts with Nancy's biological son, who she believes is RAD from the abuse of his bio father (both in utero and out) and how that lead her to what she does now. In some ways, it was cathartic for me. I wasn't alone. Someone else has had to parent like me. In other ways it was therapeutic because I realized that had kids she struggled with and couldn't help heal and she is considered to be one of the best. She also chronicles how the stress effected her and the other members of her family. I have read it I think 3 times now, and plan to do it again. Actually, reading posts from parents on the yahoo group RAD FAS Kids seemed to upset me more than that book ever has.

[Guest submarines]

Her daughter's name is Beth that was healed. I have met her and spent time with her. She is just amazing. Nancy Thomas is honest about her short comings and how parenting children with RAD has effected her (in sometimes negative ways). The Dandelion book changed me.

 

Somewhat OT, I'm sorry. I was about to order this book, as I started researching RAD, and just watched the Child of Rage documentary on youtube. But some reviewers mention that the book is poorly written and unedited, including who's for whose and apostrophes to pluralize. :confused: Is it really that bad? Was the content worth it? Thanks.

[Dobela]

how? Do you think my statement is correct when I say I have to have a good therapist to help me keep strong as I read my way through that book? I've had the book for months and honestly haven't even opened it yet.

I just want to add that it changed me in that I stopped blaming myself so much. Mostly. I stopped feeling so alone as well. The story of Beth gave me some hope and encouragement. but we still disrupted the adoption, in part due to the lack of support and understanding by the other professionals around us at the time. The lies of the system are eventually what lead us out of foster care and adoption. I would love to have more kids, to adopt more kids in need. But knowing I will not receive accurate information, and even less assistance, I just can't do it any more. I can't do it to the children I already have.

[Tap]

Let me just say that as a foster parent I received very little training. Stinking little.When our girls came to us and we began suspecting RAD, we were accused of setting up our home for failure and abuse. We were threatened with having them and our other child removed. We were accused of lying.

 

When I asked to dely the finalization of dd by 3 months to get her evaluated by a psychologist, due to her increasing violence against my bio-daughter...

 

we were told that if I requested the extension, she would be immediately removed from our home, since it showed we were not fully committed to raising her for the long term. They didn't care that she was causing physical harm to our bio-dd. They didn't care that she was doing fecal smearing, laying on the floor-slamming her into it repeatedly, pinching herself to the point of leaving bruises.....they just wanted her case finalized at all costs. I should have fought for it anyways....but I gave in and signed the papers. Much like Tara, we were soo very, very beat down emotionally, we just wanted to move on.

[Dobela]

Somewhat OT, I'm sorry. I was about to order this book, as I started researching RAD, and just watched the Child of Rage documentary on youtube. But some reviewers mention that the book is poorly written and unedited, including who's for whose and apostrophes to pluralize. :confused: Is it really that bad? Was the content worth it? Thanks.

The content is worth it. I was so captivated by the stories inside I didn't notice the grammar and unedited portions. Part of it is written, I believe, by Beth as a child, or taken from some of her childhood journals. (or maybe some of the other children Nancy cared for?? My copy is loaned out so I can't look at it right now).

[Dobela]

When I asked to dely the finalization of dd by 3 months to get her evaluated by a psychologist, due to her increasing violence against my bio-daughter...

 

we were told that if I requested the extension, she would be immediately removed from our home, since it showed we were not fully committed to raising her for the long term. They didn't care that she was causing physical harm to our bio-dd. They didn't care that she was doing fecal smearing, laying on the floor-slamming her into it repeatedly, pinching herself to the point of leaving bruises.....they just wanted her case finalized at all costs. I should have fought for it anyways....but I gave in and signed the papers. Much like Tara, we were soo very, very beat down emotionally, we just wanted to move on.

A similar thing happened to our friends. With one boy they were not told until the day of court that he was telling therapists the ways he was going to kill the mom. When they asked to stop proceedings they were told that the other 3 kids were going to be removed that night. The parents backed off and the boy attacked that night breaking my friends ribs and facial bones. The response by CPS was to take all the children saying that he wouldn't attack if they had better parenting skills. The parents had to fight for months to get the other kids back.

 

Our dd's adoption took 2 long years and I was emotionally exhausted dealing with the state and taking care of her medical needs. There is no class or training session out there that could have prepared us for what we went thru. Or what we went thru with the RADish girls and that failed adoption. And the lies of the agency absolutely did not help.

[Denisemomof4]

A similar thing happened to our friends. With one boy they were not told until the day of court that he was telling therapists the ways he was going to kill the mom. When they asked to stop proceedings they were told that the other 3 kids were going to be removed that night. The parents backed off and the boy attacked that night breaking my friends ribs and facial bones. The response by CPS was to take all the children saying that he wouldn't attack if they had better parenting skills. The parents had to fight for months to get the other kids back.

 

Our dd's adoption took 2 long years and I was emotionally exhausted dealing with the state and taking care of her medical needs. There is no class or training session out there that could have prepared us for what we went thru. Or what we went thru with the RADish girls and that failed adoption. And the lies of the agency absolutely did not help.

 

this makes me SICK.

[Guest submarines]

The content is worth it. I was so captivated by the stories inside I didn't notice the grammar and unedited portions. Part of it is written, I believe, by Beth as a child, or taken from some of her childhood journals. (or maybe some of the other children Nancy cared for?? My copy is loaned out so I can't look at it right now).

 

Thank you! I will see if our library has it. :001_smile:

[Impish]

I don't know how to say this without upsetting someone, but honestly, learning about RAD is what changed our minds about pursuing adoption/fostering.

 

And that was just a *little* bit of info we had, compared to what we know now!

 

We're cowards, I fully admit that. And feel guilty for it.

 

Ftr, the knowledge I came to find was via other adoptive/foster parents on an adoption forum...def NOT via 'official' channels!

 

The families that deal w/RAD have my utmost respect. I truly don't know how you do it, and know, without a doubt, that I'm too much of a chicken sh!t to try.

 

We've talked about it now and then, in terms of when our kids are much, much older...But honestly, unless something changes dramatically in terms of what is available for children w/mental health issues, attachment disorders, etc...I have grave doubts as to if I could manage.

 

The emotional and legal blackmail I've heard about is def a HUGE part of our fears and hesitation. I can't imagine being threatened w/removal of our bio kids b/c we have doubts as to proceeding w/an adoption, or request a child be moved to another foster home! Or, if a disruption were to become neccessary, be threatened w/charges of abandonment and loss of our other kids too!

 

Good heavens...I used to wonder why there was a scarcity of foster homes, and adoptions...The more educated I get about these issues, the less I wonder.

 

It's heartbreaking.

[Denisemomof4]

I don't know how to say this without upsetting someone, but honestly, learning about RAD is what changed our minds about pursuing adoption/fostering.

 

And that was just a *little* bit of info we had, compared to what we know now!

 

We're cowards, I fully admit that. And feel guilty for it.

 

 

 

You're not cowards and you should feel NO guilt at all. I've been pretty clear about how I feel about adoption, especially adoption when you have other young kids in the home.

 

I used to think that all my work and research could benefit other children. I was hoping to become a foster parent since I had the skills to help these kids.

 

I'm think art classes will be more of what I will be doing when my RADish is gone. I will be 58 then, and I hope that I will have an ounce of sanity left. ;)

[Laura in MI]

I didn't know about RAD until this thread. I googled it. I cannot even imagine. I'm praying for you and your family. :grouphug:

[FaithManor]

I just want to add that it changed me in that I stopped blaming myself so much. Mostly. I stopped feeling so alone as well. The story of Beth gave me some hope and encouragement. but we still disrupted the adoption, in part due to the lack of support and understanding by the other professionals around us at the time. The lies of the system are eventually what lead us out of foster care and adoption. I would love to have more kids, to adopt more kids in need. But knowing I will not receive accurate information, and even less assistance, I just can't do it any more. I can't do it to the children I already have.

 

 

I understand that completely! One of the five year old boys that I did respite for had blown through THREE adoption placements. The family he landed with, WERE NEVER TOLD!!!!! Yes, you have that right...the caseworker conveniently left that out of the file as well as his psychiatric evals all of which described RAD/Psychopathic behaviors. They were told nothing and when they asked pointed questions they were lied to. He was the most damaged of all of the RAD children I ever respited for.

 

My parents lasted 30 days as foster parents. Just.30.days. A 16 year old RAD boy was placed with them and the caseworker told them his only psychiatric diagnosis was ADHD!!!! It was all my parents could do to keep my 10 year old sister safe from him. They really wanted to help the boy, but when it became obvious that a. there were no resources and b. the caseworker did not give one rat's rear about my sister's safety and c. the caseworker seemed incapable of speaking the truth, they d. Ripped up their foster care license and never fostered again.

 

I know that the lies occur because of the pressure to place the child and find an adoptive family. I know that the state and federal government refuse to fund for resources, residential treatment, etc. and that leaves the caseworker holding the bag. I do understand that. However, the lies never have anything good come from them because there is absolutely no possible good that can ever come of placing a totally disturbed child with a clueless family that will not have any resources at their disposal for tackling the magnitude of the problems the child has and will cause. Why this is not obvious I will never know!

 

I have absolutely nothing but the deepest, most profound respect for Denise, Tara, Dobela, and all of the other foster, adopt parents that are in the trenches dealing with this every single day. They are the unsung heroes that most people never, ever know about.

 

Faith

[swellmomma]

I don't know how to say this without upsetting someone, but honestly, learning about RAD is what changed our minds about pursuing adoption/fostering.

 

And that was just a *little* bit of info we had, compared to what we know now!

 

We're cowards, I fully admit that. And feel guilty for it.

 

Ftr, the knowledge I came to find was via other adoptive/foster parents on an adoption forum...def NOT via 'official' channels!

 

The families that deal w/RAD have my utmost respect. I truly don't know how you do it, and know, without a doubt, that I'm too much of a chicken sh!t to try.

 

We've talked about it now and then, in terms of when our kids are much, much older...But honestly, unless something changes dramatically in terms of what is available for children w/mental health issues, attachment disorders, etc...I have grave doubts as to if I could manage.

 

The emotional and legal blackmail I've heard about is def a HUGE part of our fears and hesitation. I can't imagine being threatened w/removal of our bio kids b/c we have doubts as to proceeding w/an adoption, or request a child be moved to another foster home! Or, if a disruption were to become neccessary, be threatened w/charges of abandonment and loss of our other kids too!

 

Good heavens...I used to wonder why there was a scarcity of foster homes, and adoptions...The more educated I get about these issues, the less I wonder.

 

It's heartbreaking.

 

 

:iagree: Ds13 doesn't even have RAD and I am so over it. I can't imagine dealing with even worse daily than i already do. I am already stuck between a rock and a hard place with him and am trying to stay hopeful until he turns 18 I can not fathom ever fostering or adopting out of fear of starting all over with this. I used to dream about having a large family and fostering/adopting many kids. Like with those dealing with RAD I can not keep my other kids safe from him without risking having them all taken, but I am risking that by continueing to have him in the home and it is not even as bad as what those dealing with RAD are coping with.

 

If there is anything to be envious about of those with RADishes is that those that know and understand RAD know it is not the adoptive parents' fault. They know the adoptive parent is doing all they can to help a damaged child. I am envious of that, because being the bio mom of a child who displays these behaviours has included being out right accused of abuse and neglect, after all properly loved kids don't act like this right. At least if he wasn't my bio kid people would see how much I am hurting trying to help him and see it as what it is, me trying to save him from himself. As a bio mom of a kid who does not have RAD but has many similar behaviours to it, I don't get that part of it, I just get to shoulder the blame.

 

I wish there was something more I could do to help those of you that are dealing with RADishes. Like Imp learning about RAD pretty much from this board has convinced me that fostering or adopting will never be the right option for me, not even when the kids are all grown and gone.

[Impish]

You're not cowards and you should feel NO guilt at all. I've been pretty clear about how I feel about adoption, especially adoption when you have other young kids in the home.

 

I used to think that all my work and research could benefit other children. I was hoping to become a foster parent since I had the skills to help these kids.

 

I'm think art classes will be more of what I will be doing when my RADish is gone. I will be 58 then, and I hope that I will have an ounce of sanity left. ;)

I think the term 'cowards' is pretty accurate. I mean, I *know* that not all kids in foster care have RAD, but the spectre of it is enough to discourage us. That, and to be honest, having RSD is a factor. Even w/all the supports in the world, there's no way I have the physical, emotional, and mental stamina to deal with serious challenges. I *couldn't* physically manage even half of what you do. :grouphug:

[kwg]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

 

My heart goes out to you. I do not know how you do it. I do not think I could.

 

I guess you have thought about sending dd12 to school for a break- just reading that hubby gets one @work made me think of that even though honestly I wish it could be the other way around (sending your younger dd to school).

[StephanieZ]

I know this sounds extreme, but I wonder if setting up a home security system with cameras in many/ most rooms recording behaviors might be helpful in protecting a family against false allegations.

 

You can set them up so they are hidden. Systems like these are cheap now, and hard drive space is very cheap. You could archive lots and lots of incidents . . .

 

This might be a worthwhile insurance policy against Cps, etc . . . Especially if a family is considering exposing themselves to the system via school, etc.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I am so sorry you are gong through this!

[Denisemomof4]

Denise:

i may have told you this another time, but i am fairly certain that I didn't.

 

My maternal aunt and uncle adopted from Canada when I was about 10 yrs old -- that would have been 47 years ago.

 

Little boy, 18 months old, my aunt and uncle were thrilled.....for about 3 or 4 months, and then 'things' began.

 

My cousin could not be left alone for 2 seconds -- my aunt was beside herself. They went to therapists, priests, you name it. Cousin set fires, stole money from handbags when they were out visiting (we learned to lock stuff up), you name it, he did it.

 

He was actually the first person I ever knew who was on ritalin -- and, no it didn't help.

 

He was thrown out of schools until finally, a private Catholic prep school took pity on my aunt and he was able to graduate from there. He enlisted in the army after he graduated, and the last I heard (rather recently actually) is that he is married to the girl he married soon after my aunt died (this would have them married 25 or 26 years) they have a bunch of kids, and he seems to have straightened out.

 

I feel for you, Denise. My aunt was a saint, or at least she is one now, iykwim.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: And, I don't have enough bandwidth to even begin to list the things he used to do.

 

No, Mariann, I don't think you've shared this before. Thank you for doing so!

 

It is wonderful to hear that your cousin is married for a long time. It's great he has a lot of kids. I have to wonder, though what type of father and husband he is.

 

On adoption forums I've belonged to, adults with attachment issues have discovered them because of their adopted children. Then it makes sense to the spouse to see why they have always struggled so much.

 

As it stands right now, I can't imagine dd being married and making a husband happy. I hope and pray that it happens one day, but it is impossible to imagine at the moment.

[Dobela]

:grouphug: I don't know much about RAD, but do you find it is cyclical? Does it usually get worse before it gets a little bit better? I find this is true for my DD, though might not apply to your RADish.

 

I remember you posted about the progress you've achived in your relationship with your DD. Maybe things need to get worse before they are better again. Hang in there. :grouphug:

I don't know about cyclical either. I know for us it almost felt cyclical in that about the time we controled one issue, another one would rear its ugly head. One boy we know seemed to have improved greatly in the last 3 years, then puberty hit and the hormones have released some beast. His adoptive parents are really struggling right now. They stopped homeschooling to get a break but now the issues are so bad at school that it is a different kind of stress.

[Dobela]

I know this sounds extreme, but I wonder if setting up a home security system with cameras in many/ most rooms recording behaviors might be helpful in protecting a family against false allegations.

 

You can set them up so they are hidden. Systems like these are cheap now, and hard drive space is very cheap. You could archive lots and lots of incidents . . .

 

This might be a worthwhile insurance policy against Cps, etc . . . Especially if a family is considering exposing themselves to the system via school, etc.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I am so sorry you are gong through this!

Most families I know dealing with RAD are already financially broke from paying for therapies and such. I also wonder how privacy laws and such would work for this. You couldn't leave it on 24/4 I am assumming because at some point the child would have to undress and bathe, and so on.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this thread. At first, I could just say, "well, my children don't have RAD." However, with attachment disorders, fact is that I still have a lot of the fears and pain and behaviors associated. And I have them times three. And it is scary and....and will my daughter ever be able to love me and turn to me as her mother?

 

I think attachment needs to be covered more with foster parents so that children gain the ABILITY to make strong attachments if they move on to other homes or stay with their foster parents. We start therapeutic parenting the second the kids walk in the door. We love them as if they will always be here though we hope they can go home (because THAT is best even if home is mediocre). We want them to have the ABILITY to attach. It really is better to have love and lost than to never have loved at all.

 

Of course, now we've been taking older kids who are past those key ages....And the children I'm adopting - it's been bad. We were the EIGHTH home for our youngest and he wasn't even 3 when he got here. It was only worse for the older two. The 4yo shows the most ability to attach decently but also the most PTSD/anxiety issues. And as I said, I do worry my daughter doesn't have it in her to trust me and be loved by me. I know there is *something* there. And her therapist thinks she'll come along (and she's experienced which helps). It's just going to take awhile...a long while.

[Virg]

Most families I know dealing with RAD are already financially broke from paying for therapies and such. I also wonder how privacy laws and such would work for this. You couldn't leave it on 24/4 I am assumming because at some point the child would have to undress and bathe, and so on.

 

Our system was only a few hundred dollars and we bought it with tax returns a few years ago. Ours are on 24/7 but we obviously don't have one set up in the bathroom. It has been helpful but RADishes are very good at figuring out where the blind spots are and it is exhausting to try to keep up with watching it on fast forward to figure out what crazy things went on that you missed. Or when you know something is missing trying to figure out when so you aren't watching 3 days straight of recording. Not to mention that the child themselves will deny it is them doing wrong even WHILE they are watching the video, then come up with some crazy story about what they were actually doing that you would almost believe except you know they are lying. Talk about messing with your reality, these kids do it on a crazy level.

[happyhomemaker25]

BUut MANY RAD kids aren't allowed any freedom. THey have to be in eyesight and earshot at ALL times. I was disheartened to hear that people still have to do that with their RADishes when they're in their teens. I guess I'm more realistic about it now.

 

 

I know it's hard to understand, but she truly is not safe to be given any freedom. SHE is not safe.

 

I hope other RAD moms here who have spoken to this fact to me offline will chime in here. Not having freedom truly is what she needs.

Yes. My 14yo has virtually no freedom. The rule in our house is you have to earn it. It's not safe for her with her poor impulse control and emotional immaturity.

[Dobela]

I know. It's what changed our minds about adoption.

 

Yup. Or RAD kids that have made false allegations, abuse family members...

 

To be in a situation where a child you love is destroying your family...I just can't put into words the feelings I have for you, Denise. :grouphug:

Allegations were made against us by the oldest of the 2 girls that we tried to adopt. They were 4 and 5 when we brought them home, just so you know it can be very bad at very young ages. The oldest went to a new foster home and told the foster mom that I liked watching children have s$x, among other things. It was then reported to a supervisor and fortunately the charges were brought forward in a meeting rather than turned over to a hotline. (We were still caring for the younger sister at the time or it may have been turned over to a hotline for investigation). My dh and I were heavily threatened by the supervisor until the otherwise inept attorney ad litem began reading about other accusations the child had made in other foster homes from the file he had brought with him to the meeting. It was also at this same meeting that we learned she and her sister had been in *14* foster homes since birth. We had been told that there were only 3 previous homes before we agreed to bring them to our home.

[Dobela]

I'm having a bit of trouble with this thread. At first, I could just say, "well, my children don't have RAD." However, with attachment disorders, fact is that I still have a lot of the fears and pain and behaviors associated. And I have them times three. And it is scary and....and will my daughter ever be able to love me and turn to me as her mother?

 

I think attachment needs to be covered more with foster parents so that children gain the ABILITY to make strong attachments if they move on to other homes or stay with their foster parents. We start therapeutic parenting the second the kids walk in the door. We love them as if they will always be here though we hope they can go home (because THAT is best even if home is mediocre). We want them to have the ABILITY to attach. It really is better to have love and lost than to never have loved at all.

 

Of course, now we've been taking older kids who are past those key ages....And the children I'm adopting - it's been bad. We were the EIGHTH home for our youngest and he wasn't even 3 when he got here. It was only worse for the older two. The 4yo shows the most ability to attach decently but also the most PTSD/anxiety issues. And as I said, I do worry my daughter doesn't have it in her to trust me and be loved by me. I know there is *something* there. And her therapist thinks she'll come along (and she's experienced which helps). It's just going to take awhile...a long while.

There are degrees to RAD, just like there are degrees of autism or stroke damage. The best social worker we worked with once told me to accept the fact that all children in foster care have some degree of RAD, even if it isn't on the official diagnosis page. The foster care agencies are not going to put RAD on paperwork unless forced because that makes a child less adoptable and more likely to receive a subsidy at adoption - 2 things they want to avoid.

[LibraryLover]

I understand why you would not feel safe/comfortable sharing all that, Tara. I know, too, that Denise has already been clear about preschool having been a disaster. School is not my agenda, believe me. I'm learning right along with everyone else here about RAD. It is something that cane up in our adoption counseling, but no way would I have been prepared. I was very niave and simply lucked out there.

 

I do wonder how parents of schooled RAD children can fully protect themselves (if they even can) from accusations made by RAD kids to teachers. I know that when an IEP is in place, there is specific information shared by the team is supposed to be disseminated to all school officials involved with the child. That would offer one layer (in theory ) of protection for the parent. An IEP and a diagnosis would at least have teachers on alert for behaviors related to RAD.

 

I understand it's a moot point here, but I did have curiosity and thoughts about a team understanding of the problem/issues, which is why I asked the question about how your school handles it all. I can certain see how that sounds like too personal question. I didn't mean for it to sound intrusive.

Edited January 27, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Denisemomof4]

I understand why you would not feel safe/comfortable sharing all that, Tara. I know, too, that Denise has already been clear about preschool having been a disaster. School is not my agenda, believe me. I'm learning right along with everyone else here about RAD. It is something that cane up in our adoption counseling, but no way would I have been prepared. I was very niave and simply lucked out there.

 

I do wonder how parents of schooled RAD children can fully protect themselves (if they even can) from accusations made by RAD kids to teachers. I know that when an IEP is in place, there is specific information shared by the team is supposed to be disseminated to all school officials involved with the child. That would offer one layer (in theory ) of protection for the parent. An IEP and a diagnosis would at least have teachers on alert for behaviors related to RAD.

 

I understand it's a moot point here, but I did have curiosity and thoughts about a team understanding of the problem/issues, which is why I asked the question about how your school handles it all. I can certain see how that sounds like too personal question. I didn't mean for it to sound intrusive.

 

My friend who has adopted and fostered 20 children has been through SO many CPS investigations, even with her kids with IEPs, that it amazes me that CPS still believes these kid's lies. There simply is NO way you can protect yourself against that. My friend has just gotten used to the investigations.

She told me that herself.

 

Yes, my life is hard with my RAD kid at home, but I am certain it would be even harder if she wan't.

[misslissa]

At http://www.child.tcu.edu (corrected to add www) there is information about an intensive camp they run. They do amazing work even with kids as severely traumatized as your dd sounds. Because it's research, it may be free to participants.

Edited January 28, 2012 by misslissa

[Pamela H in Texas]

I used to dream about having a large family and fostering/adopting many kids.

 

This is a dream so hard to give up. I really thought I'd be one who'd have 50, 80, 120 kids through my home and/or adopting 8, 12, 17. It so isn't going to happen. We haven't totally given up yet, but we know we won't last another couple years, much less decades. For example, the baby we're inquiring about currently is with foster parents who've done so for 36 years. WOW!

[Caroline]

Denise, your posts on this forum have been very educational for me. Our neighbor has a dd with RAD. I had no idea what she was talking about until I read your posts a few years ago. Now I can be a listening ear for my neighbor. I can't help or fix things, but I can listen.

[FaithManor]

This is a dream so hard to give up. I really thought I'd be one who'd have 50, 80, 120 kids through my home and/or adopting 8, 12, 17. It so isn't going to happen. We haven't totally given up yet, but we know we won't last another couple years, much less decades. For example, the baby we're inquiring about currently is with foster parents who've done so for 36 years. WOW!

 

 

36 YEARS! Somebody start the foster parent hall of fame...I nominate them!

 

Boggles my brain.

 

Pamela, :grouphug::grouphug:

 

Faith

[LibraryLover]

My friend who has adopted and fostered 20 children has been through SO many CPS investigations, even with her kids with IEPs, that it amazes me that CPS still believes these kid's lies. There simply is NO way you can protect yourself against that. My friend has just gotten used to the investigations.

She told me that herself.

 

Yes, my life is hard with my RAD kid at home, but I am certain it would be even harder if she wan't.

 

This is the main reason I was asking T what her school does, if anything, to protect parents from false accusations. I (want to) imagine there are certain safeguards, a certain protocol. ? I don't know.

[swellmomma]

This is a dream so hard to give up. I really thought I'd be one who'd have 50, 80, 120 kids through my home and/or adopting 8, 12, 17. It so isn't going to happen. We haven't totally given up yet, but we know we won't last another couple years, much less decades. For example, the baby we're inquiring about currently is with foster parents who've done so for 36 years. WOW!

 

That is amazing! 36 years is awesome. That is what I thought I would do. Dozens of kids either bio, adopted or fostered in my home for essentially the rest of my life. Ds is 13 I am counting down the last 5 yrs and looking forward to the days I no longer have him here and being able to really enjoy my own home again. I love kids. I have wanted nothing more than to be a mom from the time I was 3, to work with kids in any setting (which is why I have worked in daycare since age 11, took early childhood development in college. Even when I went and studied medical office assistant I worked in peds.) I felt working with and raising kids was my calling. I have since had to accept that I was wrong on that and that I am too burned out from these ones to ever fulfill that.

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, your posts on this forum have been very educational for me. Our neighbor has a dd with RAD. I had no idea what she was talking about until I read your posts a few years ago. Now I can be a listening ear for my neighbor. I can't help or fix things, but I can listen.

 

THIS is exactly why I am so outspoken here. I was hoping people could learn a little to be able to help someone like your neighbor in any way at all. Just listening is going to be a blessing to her.

 

You are a dear!

[Denisemomof4]

This is the main reason I was asking T what her school does, if anything, to protect parents from false accusations. I (want to) imagine there are certain safeguards, a certain protocol. ? I don't know.

 

even the police stopped listening to my friend. She finally felt so threatened while in their 15 passenger van recently that she drove right to the police station when her HUGE foster son wouldn't stop rocking the van. She was SO afraid he was going to cause her to roll over. She told me she had to hold it together and put on a strong front or else he would feed off of her fear. When she got to the police station, she barely got the car into park, jumped out as quickly as possible and ran inside. The son punched a hole right through the windshield and was bleeding. The police finally listened to her. This kid had an IEP and he called CPS on her numerous times. She was investigated Every Single Time. One time she had to hire 6 lawyers to keep her record clean, even though the kid who reported her later told CPS he lied.

 

Another adopted kid down the road with an IEP has been in and out of residential treatment facilities. I don't know what happened recently with him, but police helicopters were flying above looking for him.

 

I'm not in the know because I don't have a kid in school with an IEP, but having one would mean pretty much nothing to me as far as RAD is concerned.

[Impish]

One thought that occurred to me...

 

It seems as though the family is in prison, and the RADish child is the warden, as they have all the control due to their behaviours. I believe it was Tara that stated that these kids do have a choice in the healing process, and therefore their behaviours.

 

Would that be an accurate statement?

[LibraryLover]

I hear you, Denise. :grouphug: I really am trying to be be very global with my questions. To understand if anything good can ever be done within the 'system' with the proper knowledge. I am wondering what legal safety protections, if any, might be in place for families dealing with this --I'm thinking about those in the school system, particularly, since school attendance is still the default. Are/how/can families be protected from prosecution when the children lie? Can an IEP, with a proper diagnosis, of course (if one can find such help) be part of a paper trail to protect parents and other children in the home. I'm thinking out loud, wondering, asking questions. I appreciate your patience and good will here. I respect your trying to educate us/me.

 

I'm not in the know because I don't have a kid in school with an IEP, but having one would mean pretty much nothing to me as far as RAD is concerned.

Edited January 28, 2012 by LibraryLover

[celticmom]

:grouphug: I have the utmost respect for those who parent RAD children. I had not heard of it until I started reading these boards.

[Denisemomof4]

One thought that occurred to me...

 

It seems as though the family is in prison, and the RADish child is the warden, as they have all the control due to their behaviours. I believe it was Tara that stated that these kids do have a choice in the healing process, and therefore their behaviours.

 

Would that be an accurate statement?

 

It is common for RAD moms to feel like a prisoner in their own home.

[Ester Maria]

I doubt I ever shared this with you, Denise, but at some point I searched your posts on this topic after having come across you mentioning RAD several times, and saved or printed out a heck lot of them for some of my friends. I am not sure this is going to mean anything to you, but they helped at least one couple reconsider adoption and go into it with their eyes widely open (they did not even know about such a possibility, what they were told were some vague generalties of a possibility that a child "does not bond well", but not a word of just how wrong things can be), and at least one other person, who has professionally dealt with a family with a child who most likely has RAD - since she is a lawyer, and knew nothing about this topic, from her outside perspective the family were, of course, horrible parents and potential abusers, and although she did not work with them on anything related to adoption but on some more trivial property disputes, she was wondering whether she had a duty to intervene into their life further and found it hard to even entertain the idea of how wrong things can be and how a child can be a cause of that, rather than parents - your posts were a starting point for her to research this topic.

 

Personally, I know nothing about the topic except for the "popular media" stuff like Child of Rage, and even that is coincidental, because one of my extended family members who has a degree in psychology (works in other field, but studied psychology too) researched some adoption issues.

This is so removed from our realm of personal experience that I cannot begin to fathom what you are living with, which is why I never comment in these threads, but I found your posts very informative, to the point of drawing several other people's attention to them.

 

Take care. :grouphug:

[Gentlemommy]

:grouphug:I can not imagine what you and your precious family have been through.:grouphug:You have my utmost respect and admiration, although I know that isn't much consolation to the issues you are facing now.

I also wanted to say that reading about your experience has REALLY opened my eyes to the reality (and sometimes horrors) of adoption and foster care. We were on the verge of really diving in, and after learning about RAD via your story, I've put it on hold...at least until my biological children are older (they are 6, 3, and 1 now). I can not imagine putting them through the h3ll that RAD children can cause on a family. Adoption is not off the table forever, but for a while it will be...

Thank you for sharing your story, for educating others, for being brutally honest and transparent about what the reality is with adoption and attachment disorders. I really wish more people would do that. I have no words of wisdom for you, everything I think to say sounds so trite. Just know I have you and your family in my thoughts, there are a lot of people rooting for you. I wish you peace, rest, and strength. :grouphug:

[paradisebound]

My husband and I work with an organization out of the country, that just started a small orphanage. Does anyone have ideas for us on how to find information on helping the children form healthy attachments? I really want to be doing as much as we can to not be forming RAD in these children. We started just taking in infants as their first or second placements, because we knew we couldn't handle children with severe issues, but it sounds like this can start much younger than I imagined. Our country is closed to adoption so we will raise them unless reunification with birth family is possible.

[Laurie4b]

It's such a sad situation. The worst part of it seems to be that this poor little girl can't control what she's doing, so even though she is wreaking havoc in the house and needs 24/7 supervision, my heart goes out to her. It must be horrible to be constantly watched and monitored. :(

 

Are there effective medications or therapies for RAD? I must admit that I know very little about it, other than what I have read in threads on this forum, so I know that some treatment is available but I don't know anything about the success and failure rates.

 

For cases on the mild-moderate part of the spectrum, yes, there is treatment that works.

 

For the more severe manifestations, which is apparently what this child has, residential treatment is the best treatment option, imo. It may need to be through adulthood. The problem is that it is horrendously expensive and there are few public options, so nearly all families with kids with this level of severity are caught in a living nightmare until the child reaches legal age.

 

What you can do to help is to support anyone you know with a child like this, and since the most severe cases come from adoption of older children, make sure that anyone you know considering adopting older children has the info to make a well-informed decision BEFORE they adopt. Lobby to hold adoption agencies responsible for conveying accurate info to adoptive parents, and to evaluate for RAD, before and after placement, and to make the disruption of an adoption of a child with RAD logistically and socially acceptable. No family should have to live like this.

 

By the way, I don't believe the child cannot control what she is doing. What she wants is to be safe from intimacy, so she makes choices to destroy it over and over and over. While her fear of intimacy is not under her control, each choice she makes to destroy and hurt and harm certainly is. Almost a guarantee she wouldn't do anything remotely like this if under the eyes of an adult who she figured she could convince that she was an angel.... until about 1 week after she moved in with that adult. So I do believe it is under her control. It's not a compulsion.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Laurie4b

[garddwr]

I had never heard of RAD before I started reading posts on this forum. I think this is something that needs to be much more widely acknowledged and understood. I don't have any help or advice to offer, just want to let all those who have shared know that I appreciate your willingness to be open about the struggles you have had with your kids.

 

--Sarah

:grouphug: