Unicorn. Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Please no bashing. A friend made a comment to me tonight that had me saying :001_huh:, and wondering why she would say it. She said Mormons aren't Christians. Why? What am I missing? If you are Mormon, do you consider yourself a Christian or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yes, we are Christians; we believe in Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer, and we figure that makes us Christians. :001_smile: Here are the first couple of articles of our faith (like a creed): Â 1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. ... 3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Â Â Some folks deny that we are Christians, usually because we are not Trinitarians or because we are not an offshoot of "historical Christianity." We claim to be the Restored Church. Â There are lots of LDS folks here who are happy to answer questions. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Please no bashing. A friend made a comment to me tonight that had me saying :001_huh:, and wondering why she would say it. She said Mormons aren't Christians. Why? What am I missing? If you are Mormon, do you consider yourself a Christian or not? Â Unicorn: Â This is one approach that some people take. Â Another is: how do you know whether someone is Christian or not? how do they know? or stated differently, do the church leaders claim to give the Bible its authority? or, rather, should the Bible be allowed to weigh what the church leaders are saying and doing? Â (No bashing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I am a Mormon and I do consider myself a Christian. Â For me, the simplest definition of being a Christian is accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and, hopefully, trying to follow His teachings. However, I am not a "Christian" in the way some people define the term, like Dangermom said. It doesn't bother me that some people don't think I'm Christian, because according to their definition, I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Dangermom, Thank you. I could not for the life of me figure out why, because I have always considered Mormons, Christian. But then I thought, maybe I'm offending them by doing so? Â Farouk, I consider anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is their savior, to be a Christian. But I do understand that different denoms don't see each other that way. Â She said she has a friend who is Mormon, who told her some really strange stuff, such as Mormons don't believe that Jesus was resurrected, and isn't the savior, and the really, really wierd part, that we aren't decended from Adam and Eve, but from aliens? :confused: I think her friend is messing w/ her head? But maybe I'm wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Â She said she has a friend who is Mormon, who told her some really strange stuff, such as Mormons don't believe that Jesus was resurrected, and isn't the savior, and the really, really wierd part, that we aren't decended from Adam and Eve, but from aliens? :confused: I think her friend is messing w/ her head? But maybe I'm wrong? Â :001_huh: :blink: Those are definitely not doctrinal LDS beliefs. We believe the opposite in all cases. I cannot say what her friend was thinking, but please don't think that's LDS doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ...Farouk, I consider anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is their savior, to be a Christian. But I do understand that different denoms don't see each other that way. Â ... Â Unicorn: Â Ty for your comment. Â My basic point was, going beyond what people and church leaders say about themselves and each other, in terms of what a Christian is and isn't, how about putting the emphasis on what Scripture reveals about this subject? Â So often, this is overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 :001_huh: :blink: Those are definitely not doctrinal LDS beliefs. We believe the opposite in all cases. I cannot say what her friend was thinking, but please don't think that's LDS doctrine. Â Well I didn't think so. I just can't imagine why her friend would say this to her. I wanted to come here and ask because I don't want her to go through life thinking this way. She's a very good person, w/ a heart of gold, but a bit gullible. Thank you for taking the time to answer!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 You're very welcome. We're always happy to provide solid information!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I've read some things about Mormon beliefs that would make me think that we have different definitions of Christian. Is it true that Mormons believe they can become gods of their own planets after death? And that Jesus Christ is "a" god? Not bashing--really and truly--just asking for clarification (as a Catholic, I know how easily things can be misrepresented/misunderstood). I'd love to see references to answers, if anyone is willing to share. :bigear: Â ETA: Another question I just remembered--do Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers? Edited January 6, 2012 by Mamabegood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Dangermom, Thank you. I could not for the life of me figure out why, because I have always considered Mormons, Christian. But then I thought, maybe I'm offending them by doing so? Farouk, I consider anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is their savior, to be a Christian. But I do understand that different denoms don't see each other that way.  She said she has a friend who is Mormon, who told her some really strange stuff, such as Mormons don't believe that Jesus was resurrected, and isn't the savior, and the really, really wierd part, that we aren't decended from Adam and Eve, but from aliens? :confused: I think her friend is messing w/ her head? But maybe I'm wrong? are you sure that person messing with your friends head wasn't a member of the doomsday cult from outside LA that was going to catch a ride on the spaceship following the hale-bopp comet? (you know the ones who all willingly ate the poisened pudding so they could be "beamed" up to the spaceship as the comet passed Earth). wow.:001_huh:  :iagree: with dangermom. We believe Jesus Christ is the literal Son of God. that He atoned for the sins of mankind, suffered and died on the cross and rose from the dead third day with a perfected and immortal body (re:ressurected). we believe that all mankind does descend from Adam and Eve - and we respect Eve and consider her role as important as Adam's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I've read some things about Mormon beliefs that would make me think that we have different definitions of Christian. Is it true that Mormons believe they can become gods of their own planets after death? And that Jesus Christ is "a" god? Not bashing--really and truly--just asking for clarification (as a Catholic, I know how easily things can be misrepresented/misunderstood). I'd love to see references to answers, if anyone is willing to share. :bigear:Â ETA: Another question I just remembered--do Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers? Â I've added links to our scriptures when I can. Â Since we do not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, we believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct beings, although they are one in purpose and make up the Godhead. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and divine. Whether this makes Him "a" god is probably based on individual perspectives. One of our clearest reasons for rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity is that we believe that Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ in vision, and they are two separate beings. Â We believe in eternal progression and we always want to become more like God (this is partly based on the many verses in the Bible that talk about our becoming heirs of God, and perfect like Him). That does not mean we can ever become greater than God because he will always be greater than us. However, it is not a core doctrine of our church that we will become gods of our own worlds, although it's something we are aware of. I know Mormons who are not comfortable with this and it doesn't matter. Also, I rarely hear this discussed at church and do not hear it taught over the pulpit. But certainly there are some Mormons who are enthusiastic about this idea. Â We believe that all of us are children of God (again, many Bible references), including Jesus Christ and Lucifer, and that we are all spirit brothers and sisters. Jesus Christ is the firstborn of God; Lucifer was one of His children and rebelled against God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinlunachick Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Can I add a question of my own? Â If Jesus (and others) are the children of God, does that mean they have a heavenly mother somewhere? If so, what is she called, and is she the equal of God? If not, can I just say that it's a little bit funny that a religion that places such a high value on family would have a single dad as a deity? (joking, just joking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Can I add a question of my own? If Jesus (and others) are the children of God, does that mean they have a heavenly mother somewhere?  Yep. There's a reason we're so big on family and eternal marriage.  If so, what is she called, and is she the equal of God?  We don't know. We don't know much about her at all, really, just that she's there. It's not one of the things we have much information on, and I'm not willing to speculate. :001_smile:  If not, can I just say that it's a little bit funny that a religion that places such a high value on family would have a single dad as a deity? (joking, just joking) That would be funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ETA: Another question I just remembered--do Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers? Â It's like finding out that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father, it's just shocking. But it doesn't make Luke a bad guy. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 For those interested in the "Are Mormons Christians?" question, here is an address from one of our church leaders. I think it explains our position well. And right from "the horse's mouth", so to speak. :D Â http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=mormons+christians+(name%3a'>http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=mormons+christians+(name%3a'>http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=mormons+christians+(name%3a'>http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=mormons+christians+(name%3a"Jeffrey+R.+Holland") Â The video version, if you'd rather watch than read: Â http://lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng&query=mormons+christians+(name%3a"Jeffrey+R.+Holland") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarymelon Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 When I was in high school, I was actually a part of a group at my evangelical church that was actively anti-mormon. We actually handed out tracts at Mormon gatherings and tried to witness to missionaries. Just a few years later I realized that I was being extremely stupid and prejudiced. We threw out a lot of small details and dug up some strange stuff that seemed weird, but I can guarantee you that you could find the equally odd doctrine in any church history. Now, my best friend is a mormon and not only is she a Christian, I am pretty sure she is a 'better' Christian than I am most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Seems like in all the matter of what people's opinions are (everyone has an opinion, a navel, etc.) or what different church leaders say, there is another aspect which is overlooked. Do people's diverse opinions infuse themselves into the Bible, as to what a Christian is? or would it be preferable for people's impressions and opinions to be informed and guided by what the Bible has to say on the matter of what a Christian is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Aw, thanks for your story, Scarymelon! That is so nice of you to say. :001_smile: :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Can I add a question of my own? If Jesus (and others) are the children of God, does that mean they have a heavenly mother somewhere? If so, what is she called, and is she the equal of God? If not, can I just say that it's a little bit funny that a religion that places such a high value on family would have a single dad as a deity? (joking, just joking)  Like Dangermom said, we don't really know that much about her, but in our religion husband and wife are equal marriage partners, so it is pretty safe to assume that she is God's equal too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolfromIL Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This is a difficult question. Mormons do believe in Jesus but also deviate from the bible by offering false witness to Jesus appearing in the America's, created their own "scripture" via the book of mormon, elevated Joseph Smith to cult worship, and basically just believed in what most consider a false prophet (Smith). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This is a difficult question. Mormons do believe in Jesus but also deviate from the bible by offering false witness to Jesus appearing in the America's, created their own "scripture" via the book of mormon, elevated Joseph Smith to cult worship, and basically just believed in what most consider a false prophet (Smith). Â Or maybe some people are really confused and don't actually understand what we truly believe. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This is a difficult question. Mormons do believe in Jesus but also deviate from the bible by offering false witness to Jesus appearing in the America's, created their own "scripture" via the book of mormon, elevated Joseph Smith to cult worship, and basically just believed in what most consider a false prophet (Smith). :001_rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustybug Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have a question, if I may join in? Â Why do Mormons not question the vision of a mere man? I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but I've never really fully understood the Joseph Smith aspect of the denomination. Â Couldn't anyone just start spouting out that they'd had a vision? (and they often do, with followers). Â Again, I don't mean any disrespect. While I do not agree with many Mormon beliefs, I am genuinely curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's like finding out that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father, it's just shocking. But it doesn't make Luke a bad guy. ;) Â :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have a question, if I may join in? Â Why do Mormons not question the vision of a mere man? I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but I've never really fully understood the Joseph Smith aspect of the denomination. Â Couldn't anyone just start spouting out that they'd had a vision? (and they often do, with followers). Â Again, I don't mean any disrespect. While I do not agree with many Mormon beliefs, I am genuinely curious. Â Because we believe one can pray to receive a Witness from the Holy Ghost as to whether someone is telling the truth or not. So we're not relying on a mere man, we're relying on a Witness from God. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Because the "home teachers" will come knocking and intimidate you into believing? Â If this and your previous comment were at all serious, you have no clue what we believe and therefore are unqualified to answer any questions about our faith. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky_Texan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Society at large allows minority groups the privilege of self-labeling. So when Mormons say "Yes, we are Christian" and other groups say "Nuh-uh" it's pretty hard to get anywhere else in a conversation. Â It's like if you were against abortion, and you labelled yourself as "pro-life" but media or others insisted you were "anti-choice" that wouldn't feel very good would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Please no bashing. This is a difficult question. Mormons do believe in Jesus but also deviate from the bible by offering false witness to Jesus appearing in the America's, created their own "scripture" via the book of mormon, elevated Joseph Smith to cult worship, and basically just believed in what most consider a false prophet (Smith). Because the "home teachers" will come knocking and intimidate you into believing? Â :001_huh: Â Do you really think this thread is the one for you, Carol? I can't even fathom what you are you trying to accomplish with this tack except trying to remove a pesky chip from your shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 There was a huge thread about this very thing about 8 months ago. MamaSheep put in huge amounts of effort to answer any and all questions re: LDS beliefs.  I will see if I can resurrect it (pun intended! :D)  Here ya go:   http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233711&highlight=LDS+questions  Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 There was a huge thread about this very thing about 8 months ago. MamaSheep put in huge amounts of effort to answer any and all questions re: LDS beliefs.I will see if I can resurrect it (pun intended! :D) Dawn :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbabe Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Everything you'd ever want to know about Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) can be found at Mormon.org. It is a website put out by the LDS church for people who have questions about the LDS church. You can look up whatever you want freely, without feeling like someone is going to call you or send missionaries to your home. :001_smile: Â http://mormon.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have a question, if I may join in? Â Why do Mormons not question the vision of a mere man? I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but I've never really fully understood the Joseph Smith aspect of the denomination. Â Couldn't anyone just start spouting out that they'd had a vision? (and they often do, with followers). Â Again, I don't mean any disrespect. While I do not agree with many Mormon beliefs, I am genuinely curious. Â To us, Joseph Smith was a prophet just like any other prophet was. Moses and Abraham were "mere men," but many Christian's don't have problems accepting that they saw visions. Why would it be any different now? That, and like others have said, we believe we have received a witness from the Holy Spirit that what he saw actually happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I have a question, if I may join in? Â Why do Mormons not question the vision of a mere man? I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but I've never really fully understood the Joseph Smith aspect of the denomination. Â Couldn't anyone just start spouting out that they'd had a vision? (and they often do, with followers). Â Again, I don't mean any disrespect. While I do not agree with many Mormon beliefs, I am genuinely curious. Xuxi explained it very well. Joseph Smith always said not to take his word for it; it's very important to ask God (James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given.). It's the witness of the Holy Spirit that is convincing. The Spirit is the one who does the converting. Â That said, Peter and Moses and Paul and Abraham were also mere men, and they had visions that Christians believe happened. The Bible was written by scribes who were mere men, but they were also prophets, transmitting God's word to mankind. Why shouldn't that continue? (To clarify, LDS put Joseph Smith on exactly the same level as the prophets of old--Peter and Paul and etc.) Â Â ETA: wow, MeaganS and I were writing the same thing! That's what I get for taking more than 30 seconds to write an answer...;) Edited January 6, 2012 by dangermom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Because the "home teachers" will come knocking and intimidate you into believing? Â Unfortunately, I've never had intimidating home teachers. That might be more exciting. When I was growing up, having the home teachers come over was the most boring thing ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have a question, if I may join in?  Why do Mormons not question the vision of a mere man? I don't mean this disrespectfully at all, but I've never really fully understood the Joseph Smith aspect of the denomination.  Couldn't anyone just start spouting out that they'd had a vision? (and they often do, with followers).  Again, I don't mean any disrespect. While I do not agree with many Mormon beliefs, I am genuinely curious.  Yes anyone can say they had a vision. Many have. Joseph Smith himself said, " I donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself." We understand that it's a hard story to swallow so there are a few things that help us believe.  First, the scriptures in Matthew 7 help (sorry, I copied them from the LDS website, but I don't know how to get rid of the links)  15 ¶Beware of afalse prophets, which come to you in bsheepĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s clothing, but cinwardly they are ravening dwolves. 16 Ye shall aknow them by their bfruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth agood bfruit; but a ccorrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good afruit is bhewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their afruits ye shall know them.   We believe that there are many who say they are prophets and claim to have been called by God, but they do evil things.   So we believe that things like the Book of Mormon and temples and eternal marriages are some of the good fruits that came about from Joseph's ministry. We believe God revealed to him those particular fruits.   Also, there is a promise at the end of the Book of Mormon to pray about what you have read and ask whether or not it's true. The entire verse is (again, sorry for the links):   4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.   We don't believe these things because one man said they were true. We believe these things because we've asked God if they were true and He said yes. We believe in continual revelation. We believe our current prophet has been called of God and we don't just take it at his word that God called him. We ask God if President Monson (our current prophet) is the true prophet of God and we believe God said yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolfromIL Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If this and your previous comment were at all serious, you have no clue what we believe and therefore are unqualified to answer any questions about our faith. :) Â Other than attacking me and raging and getting mad as hades.... What are your counter points to the mainstream christian view as: Â 1. Joesph Smith is a false prophet who invented the book of mormon, which is a work of fiction. Â Also, is it not true that Mormons utilze "Home Teachers" to visit its membership? Thats pretty well understood. Â I don't get what your gripe is. I'm just writing down the Christian view of LDS. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Because the "home teachers" will come knocking and intimidate you into believing? Â :lol: Â Who have you been talking to? Â Although I do think there are aspects of Mormonism that are coercive, home teachers certainly aren't one of them. Â Home teaching is the program where each family is assigned a pair of men to come visit them once a month, to make sure the family is doing ok and to present a short message. It is largely a failed program. It is the rare Mormon man who enjoys home teaching. The percentage of men who do their home teaching each month was low in every ward I've ever been in (with the possible exception of the single BYU wards--what single college guy doesn't want to go visit a single college girl?). It's like weight loss or exercise, something you know you have to do and know you should want to do, but you'd much rather watch a ball game on TV or go out to dinner with your friends. Â And the message, when given, is usually about 5 minutes long and delivered half-heartedly. Â Besides, it is very easy to dodge your home teachers if you want to. They are rarely persistent if you say you don't have time for a visit this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolfromIL Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yes anyone can say they had a vision. Many have. Joseph Smith himself said, " I don’t blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself." We understand that it's a hard story to swallow so there are a few things that help us believe. First, the scriptures in Matthew 7 help (sorry, I copied them from the LDS website, but I don't know how to get rid of the links)  15 ¶Beware of afalse prophets, which come to you in bsheep’s clothing, but cinwardly they are ravening dwolves. 16 Ye shall aknow them by their bfruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth agood bfruit; but a ccorrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good afruit is bhewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their afruits ye shall know them.   We believe that there are many who say they are prophets and claim to have been called by God, but they do evil things.   So we believe that things like the Book of Mormon and temples and eternal marriages are some of the good fruits that came about from Joseph's ministry. We believe God revealed to him those particular fruits.   Also, there is a promise at the end of the Book of Mormon to pray about what you have read and ask whether or not it's true. The entire verse is (again, sorry for the links):   4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having efaith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.   We don't believe these things because one man said they were true. We believe these things because we've asked God if they were true and He said yes. We believe in continual revelation. We believe our current prophet has been called of God and we don't just take it at his word that God called him. We ask God if President Monson (our current prophet) is the true prophet of God and we believe God said yes.   lol don't agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Xuxi explained it very well. Joseph Smith always said not to take his word for it; it's very important to ask God (James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given.). It's the witness of the Holy Spirit that is convincing. The Spirit is the one who does the converting. That said, Peter and Moses and Paul and Abraham were also mere men, and they had visions that Christians believe happened. The Bible was written by scribes who were mere men, but they were also prophets, transmitting God's word to mankind. Why shouldn't that continue? (To clarify, LDS put Joseph Smith on exactly the same level as the prophets of old--Peter and Paul and etc.)   ETA: wow, MeaganS and I were writing the same thing! That's what I get for taking more than 30 seconds to write an answer...;)  Mine was super late to the party. Drats! I didn't even remember to add other men who have received visions.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeaganS Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Other than attacking me and raging and getting mad as hades.... What are your counter points to the mainstream christian view as: 1. Joesph Smith is a false prophet who invented the book of mormon, which is a work of fiction.  Also, is it not true that Mormons utilze "Home Teachers" to visit its membership? Thats pretty well understood.  I don't get what your gripe is. I'm just writing down the Christian view of LDS. Sorry.  Counterpoints? Well, 1) That he was a true prophet and the Book of Mormon is a work of scripture.  and  2) Home teachers visiting and "intimidating" are two incredibly different things.  ETA: You need to stop trolling this thread. You are being very unkind and rude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Unfortunately, I've never had intimidating home teachers. That might be more exciting. When I was growing up, having the home teachers come over was the most boring thing ever. Â LOL, no kidding. Although I've also had some wonderful Home Teachers. The day my family was all leaving to take me two states away to college our family's Home Teachers came over with a few other strong men they'd recruited to finish digging the ditches for the new sprinkler system my dad was in the process of installing. They had the ditches all done by the time they came back 3 days later, and they were back again to help him lay the pipes. Â And last month my Home Teachers came over with their sons and raked my front yard. Â So ya, Home Teachers are great ones for doing yard work! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 lol don't agree  So you agreed with what I said until you found out I was a Mormon?:001_smile: Yep, that's right I saw your little "I agree" sign. :lol:  Feel free to carry on, Carol. I think everyone can see your true colors.  (and btw, having met Veritaserum and having read several of her posts, that is not her "raging" and "getting mad as all Hades". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 DNFTT Â Also, I like my home teacher. He's a good dude. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 LOL, no kidding. Although I've also had some wonderful Home Teachers. The day my family was all leaving to take me two states away to college our family's Home Teachers came over with a few other strong men they'd recruited to finish digging the ditches for the new sprinkler system my dad was in the process of installing. They had the ditches all done by the time they came back 3 days later, and they were back again to help him lay the pipes. And last month my Home Teachers came over with their sons and raked my front yard.  So ya, Home Teachers are great ones for doing yard work! :lol:  I have more good visiting teacher stories than home teacher stories. But our bishop was our home teacher once and he let us borrow his truck to pick up some trees for our new house, which is, I suppose, an extension of the yard work theme.  My husband, however, really appreciates home teaching visits and has especially missed having home teachers while we're living here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 So you agreed with what I said until you found out I was a Mormon?:001_smile: Yep, that's right I saw your little "I agree" sign. :lol:Â Feel free to carry on, Carol. I think everyone can see your true colors. Â (and btw, having met Veritaserum and having read several of her posts, that is not her "raging" and "getting mad as all Hades". If you want her to do that, you'd probably have to take the side of her MIL in a ridiculous argument:tongue_smilie: Â :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Other than attacking me and raging and getting mad as hades.... What are your counter points to the mainstream christian view as:Â 1. Joesph Smith is a false prophet who invented the book of mormon, which is a work of fiction. Â Also, is it not true that Mormons utilze "Home Teachers" to visit its membership? Thats pretty well understood. Â I don't get what your gripe is. I'm just writing down the Christian view of LDS. Sorry. Yeah Veritaserim, you better calm down:lol: your smily face just looks furious.:lol: Edited January 6, 2012 by hmsmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 :D Â Crap, I was worried the tone wouldn't transfer over the web correctly so I erased it. But it was all in good fun and I'm glad you could appreciate the humor.:lol: (but really, just in case, no offense was intended) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have more good visiting teacher stories than home teacher stories. But our bishop was our home teacher once and he let us borrow his truck to pick up some trees for our new house, which is, I suppose, an extension of the yard work theme. My husband, however, really appreciates home teaching visits and has especially missed having home teachers while we're living here.  My husband is one of those rare few who *really* tries to be regular with his home teaching (he tries to go every other month at the very least, if he can't make it every month). He's been visiting the same families for many years, and has developed some good friendships.  And I'm still BFF's with my very first Visiting Teacher. She lives 4 hours away now, but whenever we're in her area we get together, and her family drove down here 3 years ago so that her husband could stand in the circle for our last child's Blessing (as he had stood in the circle for our first two as well).  For all it's flaws, when Home Teachers (men) and Visiting Teachers (women) do the work it really is a WONDERFUL program. :) (which reminds me, I need to make some Visiting Teaching appointments. :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Crap, I was worried the tone wouldn't transfer over the web correctly so I erased it. But it was all in good fun and I'm glad you could appreciate the humor.:lol: (but really, just in case, no offense was intended) Â Nah, "mad as Hades" was me on Facebook last night in a clash with my BIL over a civil rights issue. It definitely happens. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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