Do you think it's "fair" to force conversion on children?

[TranquilMind]

AimeeM:

Is it fair to force children to convert also?

 

You can't force anyone to convert. That's a work of the Holy Spirit, not the parent or anyone else.

 

 

I guess I don't find it fair in the least. My daughter is firmly Catholic. While she questions her faith at times (she is certainly in the logic stage, lol), she loves The Church and the we way we live our faith. At the age of 10, it seems horribly unfair to require her to change the way she believes, just to suit me

 

 

It is very plain to me from the way you worded this that you are firmly Catholic as well and have no intention of attending a different church.

 

She's 10. She isn't firmly anything yet. She has known a faith tradition, and if you came to believe that tradition was wrong, distorted, or something, then you would take your children where you felt was the right place like everyone else. Or you would go yourself and still attend Mass with her. You'd work it out however seemed best for your family.

 

 

I'm sincerely curious. I just don't understand it.

 

(By the way - I'm not converting :D. Just a question)

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

What's the backstory? I'm interested. Someone you know must have done this.

[TranquilMind]

Well, of course the non-denominational churches are "heavily protestant." If they're not Catholic or Orthodox, what else are they? :confused:

Lol at the way you worded this. Right!

[Audrey]

Yes, it is unfair and the likelihood that it will stick is slim. You can't force people to believe something that they don't believe.

[LucyStoner]

I can't see how real faith can be a matter of force. If they are older kids, they should get to continue on in the faith they believe in.

 

For those that see only 1 way to salvation...well perhaps having a child of a different faith will open their eyes up a bit.

[PrincessMommy]

You may have your own personal use of the word, but I've never known anyone who went from Protestant to Catholic who didn't use the word "convert." (I've known several of those.)

 

I agree. It must be a personal use of the word because the same is true for those who convert from Protestantism to Orthodoxy. Of course, Orthodoxy is not a denomination. Protestants have denominations. Orthodoxy just is (probably Catholicism too).

[PrincessMommy]

Yes, it is unfair and the likelihood that it will stick is slim. You can't force people to believe something that they don't believe.

 

I agree. One can provide fertile ground for the faith to grow, but as parents we hope (and pray) that it will stick. This is true with many things we teach our children.

[NicAnn]

In the end, it has to be their true decision. Now, I believe that you should ask them to research, read, and study your religion...in hopes that it will lead them to the right decision. But you cannot force them. I would not allow my child to participate in a religion (or group) that I felt was truly against God or morally wrong in some way. That would be a different situation.

[T'smom]

I've only read the OP (I'll be back to read the rest later, don't have time now) but it made me remember something from my childhood. I'm a PK and when I was in the 2nd grade, my dad went from a church in one state to a church in another and our membership (obviously) went with us. I was ticked off. Seriously, seriously ticked off. I knew that I couldn't continue to attend a church in another state but I felt so strongly that I should not be forced into becoming a member (as opposed to attending). The move itself was so hard for me and this was taking even one more thing out of my control. I eventually came to love the church and would have joined on my own accord if given time to adjust.

I was a seriously difficult child. I feel so sorry for my parents, I don't know how we all survived.

[goldberry]

As a parent, my job is to teach my child what I believe to be the truth and the best way to do things. Her job while she is young is to learn the things I have to teach her. Her job when she is older, is to take the things I have taught her, decide what she is keeping or discarding, and start making her own choices.

 

So yes, if I had a valid reason for changing, I would explain why I was changing, and at her current age 12 I would expect her to attend with me and continue learning what I have to teach her.

 

But I am with others in that you can't "force" a conversion, and when she is old enough to make her own choice she will choose her faith for herself.

 

How old is that? Hmmm, that's harder and depends on the maturity of the kid. But I would say not before 16.

[farouk]

I've only read the OP (I'll be back to read the rest later' date=' don't have time now) but it made me remember something from my childhood. I'm a PK and when I was in the 2nd grade, my dad went from a church in one state to a church in another and our membership (obviously) went with us. I was ticked off. Seriously, seriously ticked off. I knew that I couldn't continue to attend a church in another state but I felt so strongly that I should not be forced into becoming a member (as opposed to attending). The move itself was so hard for me and this was taking even one more thing out of my control. I eventually came to love the church and would have joined on my own accord if given time to adjust.

I was a seriously difficult child. I feel so sorry for my parents, I don't know how we all survived.[/quote']

 

T'smom:

 

Well, people's views do develop.

 

I guess there is the story of the young person who at age 10 - 15 thinks parents know everything, then at 15 -20, thinks that parents know nothing, but then at 25 -30 thinks that in the very last few years parents have begun to discover wisdom about life.

 

You know, I guess the comparison with religion suggests itself too. Sometimes we act as if in the very last few years the Bible has begun to discover wisdom about life.

[DawnM]

I don't see my faith as anything different in terms of teaching my children what we believe and why.

 

We are very strongly anti-racists and my children have run into racists lately and it has led to some great talks. Should I NOT teach them that because they should have to figure it out on their own?

 

Of course not. I see my faith in God as being the same. I will teach my children what I believe. It is as natural as homeschooling to me.

 

One could say I "force" my children to listen to my viewpoints. But I teach, not force. There is a difference.

 

Dawn

[AimeeM]

That isn't what I asked.

I asked about forcing them to CHANGE from something you had always taught as truth, at an older age.

I don't see my faith as anything different in terms of teaching my children what we believe and why.

 

We are very strongly anti-racists and my children have run into racists lately and it has led to some great talks. Should I NOT teach them that because they should have to figure it out on their own?

 

Of course not. I see my faith in God as being the same. I will teach my children what I believe. It is as natural as homeschooling to me.

 

One could say I "force" my children to listen to my viewpoints. But I teach, not force. There is a difference.

 

Dawn

[farouk]

I think the crux of 'forcing' is when the church officials 'pressurize' children to 'get baptised' or 'get confirmed' or whatever, without it being the individual's initiative entirely. When church officials leave parents with the expectation that if only their child expects to 'get baptised', or 'get confirmed' by a certain age, then the parents will be considered 'better' church members, which in my view - excuse my fluent French - is a lot of nonsense. By God's grace I seek to be a strong believer, but I'm almost secularist in my aversion to the idea of kids being 'pressurized' at some summer camp or wherever to 'make a decision', etc. But yes, there is a very clear duty to show them the right way.

 

Hope this makes some sense.

[DawnM]

Ok, well, ignore my response then.....sorry. I can't see myself doing that, so, no, but I wouldn't force anyway, I would want them to see my point of view as in anything else I believe.

 

Dawn

 

That isn't what I asked.

I asked about forcing them to CHANGE from something you had always taught as truth, at an older age.

Edited January 6, 2012 by DawnM

[Susan in TN]

My view is that the family worships together. Certainly my kids might decide they prefer the "old" church, or when they are grown they might go in an entirely different direction. But while they are still considered "under our parental care" we'll go together.

 

I'd say there is a different issue with college age/grown children living at home, and in that case they can decide for themselves where they want to go.

[farouk]

Well now you are picking on the Catholics. LOL

 

My parents had me Baptized as an infant. I don't think all around anyone felt traumatized by it. I no longer practice/believe, but again, no harm done either. ;)

 

WendyK:

 

I guess I was thinking of the immersion variety that supposed adults do in some Protestant churches.

 

Actually I pray for Billy Graham who is ill now. Honestly I do.

 

But as well I don't have much time for organizational pressure and psychological conditioning from big, religious groups that make people come to 'decisions', signing on the dotted line, but then sometimes the folk themselves, kids or older, have no idea what it is they supposedly decided.

 

It's got to be God through the conscience, not human pressurizing; it should be the individual getting convicted about Scripture, not the personality and persuasiveness of a salesperson.

[Lovedtodeath]

Woops. I seem to have killed the thread, so nevermind. Carry on.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[The Girls' Mom]

Ture conversion cannot be forced. It is a matter of heart and is very personal.

 

My children will, however, be "trained" in our faith as I feel that God commands parents to do so. Education about our faith is mandatory in our family. Belief is not forced or coerced.

[Scarlett]

Ture conversion cannot be forced. It is a matter of heart and is very personal.

 

My children will, however, be "trained" in our faith as I feel that God commands parents to do so. Education about our faith is mandatory in our family. Belief is not forced or coerced.

 

I think this sums my feelings up well.

 

I've often told friends of mine that it is vitally important that we, parents, figure out WHAT we believe and the path we will follow before we begin having children. For how can we train up our children in the ways of religion (or not) if we do not believe ourselves? It should not be a mindless pursuit.

[Melinda in VT]

I think this sums my feelings up well.

 

I've often told friends of mine that it is vitally important that we, parents, figure out WHAT we believe and the path we will follow before we begin having children. For how can we train up our children in the ways of religion (or not) if we do not believe ourselves? It should not be a mindless pursuit.

 

I did know what I believed before I had kids. It just changed. :D

 

Humans grow and change. It's part of being alive. The information that changed my spiritual path was not easily available to a general audience until after I had kids.

[Cindyg]

To me, "conversion" is something that happens in your heart. It is not something that is done to you. One cannot be truly "converted" against his or her will. And it's not something you do to get married either. Either your heart becomes convinced and joins up, or it doesn't.

 

But back to the original question . . . If the parents switch horses in midstream (so to speak), I think they need to respect that the children's hearts might not switch so easily -- or ever. I think it's within one's parental rights to require young children to attend services with you; but I would not push for a "conversion." I might hope for one; I would pray for one; but I would not require one. ETA: And I wouldn't argue with them or lecture them about it all the time either.

 

Respect and tolerance will be called for all the way around.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Cindyg

[Lovedtodeath]

To me, "conversion" is something that happens in your heart. It is not something that is done to you. One cannot be truly "converted" against his or her will.

I don't know if I agree with that. Former Moonie Steve Hassan thinks that conversion can occur against one's will through mind control techniques that make one believe that it is what they want. Steve and his Rabbi were not educated on these techniques before it happened to him. Edited January 9, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

But back to the original question . . . If the parents switch horses in midstream (so to speak), I think they need to respect that the children's hearts might not switch so easily -- or ever. I think it's within one's parental rights to require young children to attend services with you; but I would not push for a "conversion." I might hope for one; I would pray for one; but I would not require one. ETA: And I wouldn't argue with them or lecture them about it all the time either.

 

Respect and tolerance will be called for all the way around.

:iagree:That was stated very well.

[TracyR]

Last year we converted from being Protestant to Catholic. My younger girls followed along with us, but my 13yr old has been the challenging one.

 

My children were brought up in the Protestant faith since birth. So I didn't expect them to go willingly. It was their journey just as much as it was my husband's and mine. Of course my husband at first expected everyone to shuffle into place and go along with it all. Me on the other hand I believed that if we backed off, showed by example that the girls would be able to make up their own mind, which our Deacon agreed was the right thing to do.

In the end my oldest decided to go ahead and participate in Reconciliation and Communion. But in the future I think she may not stay with the Catholic faith, she very much believes she must be entertained, and has told me she finds no beauty in the Mass of the Catholic church (which there truly there is). My younger three I'm not so worried about. They love being Catholic.

 

In the end we never forced our children to become Catholic. If we had to to do two different churches , we would and we have done it.

But there is something about everyone being on the same page though as far as religion is concerned though.

[TheAutumnOak]

Rosie, I would argue that one cannot force a conversion on anyone.

 

Dh and I are Christians. Yes, we teach our boys our beliefs. However, we do not think that means the boys believe, simply because we want them to.

 

We pray they will someday draw near to God as he calls them; that they will repent, believe, and perservere. But we can only do our part in that, which is bringing them up in our faith. Their true salvation is between them and the Lord alone.

 

All that to say, that, HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, if dh and I decided that, for example, we have been wrong, that Christianity is not THE TRUTH, but, say, Judaism was; well then, we'd go about teaching our children our new beliefs. And again, there'd be no way for us to FORCE them to believe/convert.

 

:iagree: This is pretty much what I was going to say...You saved me from having to type it out...

[silliness7]

A conversion of faith, that is.

Say you married a man as a Baptist or Catholic. You had children together, raised them for years in that same faith. Suddenly, you (or you AND the hubby) decide to convert to a completely different faith.

 

Is it fair to force children to convert also?

 

I hear it often from converts on all ends; they converted (usually hubby too, in the context I'm referring to); their children now are expected to attend the church they (the parent) attends. No "if", "ands", or "buts".

 

I guess I don't find it fair in the least. My daughter is firmly Catholic. While she questions her faith at times (she is certainly in the logic stage, lol), she loves The Church and the we way we live our faith. At the age of 10, it seems horribly unfair to require her to change the way she believes, just to suit me, but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I'd love to hear from those who have done this. No judgments, though I might ask questions :D

 

I'm sincerely curious. I just don't understand it.

 

(By the way - I'm not converting :D. Just a question)

 

My initial response is that asking a child to go to church with you is not the same thing as forcing a conversion. Forcing conversion is not even remotely possible. I think it would be harmful and downright foolish to "try". If I were in a situation were a 10yo dd still wanted to attend Mass I would make that happen for her. However, I do not think I would excuse her from attending worship with the family. It just depends on how the logistics worked out. If church was at the same time and she could catch a ride with a friend or be dropped off safely, perhaps she could be excused. I just don't know. There are a lot of variables. I would respect the faith of my 10yo but asking her to attend church with the family is not outrageous and not the same thing as forcing a conversion.