S/O: Teacher and Santa

[DawnM]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/03/new-york-teacher-tells-kids-there-is-no-santa-claus/#ixzz1fYVRNwmH?test=latestnews

 

Just curious what disciplinary action should take place in your opinion.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/03/new-york-teacher-tells-kids-there-is-no-santa-claus/#ixzz1fYVRNwmH?test=latestnews

 

Just curious what disciplinary action should take place in your opinion.

 

It would totally depend on the record of this particular teacher. I think if this were one of many incidents, the teacher should be fired. Easier said than done, I know.

 

If this is an isolated incident, I think the teacher needs to be given a list of things it is best not to disillusion children about unless they want to be castigated by the parents, such as Santa, Tooth Fairy, as well as any religious, political beliefs.

[DawnM]

Yes, I think any disciplinary action is always dependent on previous issues.

 

I wonder if this was a young teacher? I know that after college, where my preconceived ideas about just about everything were challenged, I felt it my duty to impart that questioning spirit on others. I didn't do it in the classroom though, but I taught middle school right out of college.

 

Dawn

 

It would totally depend on the record of this particular teacher. I think if this were one of many incidents, the teacher should be fired. Easier said than done, I know.

 

If this is an isolated incident, I think the teacher needs to be given a list of things it is best not to disillusion children about unless they want to be castigated by the parents, such as Santa, Tooth Fairy, as well as any religious, political beliefs.

[Mama2Many4]

She should apologize to the parents. But I don't think she deserves to have her pay suspended or lose her job. That would be ridiculous.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She should apologize to the parents. But I don't think she deserves to have her pay suspended or lose her job. That would be ridiculous.

 

:iagree:

 

Technically she was teaching geography (including who lives in a locale) correctly. Santa Claus does not live there. But there were ways that she could have handled the subject matter without bursting their bubble or commenting on who brings presents etc. She would have had to lie to do it though - "Yes, Santa lives there. But if you go there on a scientific mission you won't see him or his workshop because they are magically invisible. Instead this is what you would see. . . " So that brings up the question - should teachers lie when giving factual information?

[higginszoo]

:iagree:

 

Technically she was teaching geography (including who lives in a locale) correctly. Santa Claus does not live there. But there were ways that she could have handled the subject matter without bursting their bubble or commenting on who brings presents etc. She would have had to lie to do it though - "Yes, Santa lives there. But if you go there on a scientific mission you won't see him or his workshop because they are magically invisible. Instead this is what you would see. . . " So that brings up the question - should teachers lie when giving factual information?

 

I don't think that she even had to perpetuate a lie. I think that it was perfectly fine (if asked -- otherwise, I just wouldn't go there) to say that when the scientists/adventurers went there, they didn't SEE Santa's workshop, but also point out examples of things that are hard to see/camouflaged, etc., maybe bring the concept of snow blindness/things being hard to see on an ice shelf, and leave it as a 'who knows' kind of thing.

I'm in the apology is enough camp, BTW. It was in poor taste, but not the end of the world.

[Farrar]

I feel like she shouldn't have even touched it. And clearly she should apologize. But... I find it difficult to be "outraged" like the article suggests I should be by a teacher "demystifying" something. I don't find that naturally outrageous. Good grief. That's her job to demystify stuff for kids!

 

But my kids have always known there was no Santa, so there's that grain of salt with my take. And I would never take it upon myself to tell another person's child. Clearly something going on there for her.

[Murmer]

:iagree:

 

Technically she was teaching geography (including who lives in a locale) correctly. Santa Claus does not live there. But there were ways that she could have handled the subject matter without bursting their bubble or commenting on who brings presents etc. She would have had to lie to do it though - "Yes, Santa lives there. But if you go there on a scientific mission you won't see him or his workshop because they are magically invisible. Instead this is what you would see. . . " So that brings up the question - should teachers lie when giving factual information?

 

Couldn't she have said something like "Many people believe Santa and his workshop are at the North Pole but every time someone goes up there no one has found it." and let the children pull from that how they may...along the same lines of "Many people believe that there was a Creator but so far the evidence points to evolution as a form of creation of the earth." and many other things that people believe but science has not proven.

[Catwoman]

:iagree:

 

Technically she was teaching geography (including who lives in a locale) correctly. Santa Claus does not live there. But there were ways that she could have handled the subject matter without bursting their bubble or commenting on who brings presents etc. She would have had to lie to do it though - "Yes, Santa lives there. But if you go there on a scientific mission you won't see him or his workshop because they are magically invisible. Instead this is what you would see. . . " So that brings up the question - should teachers lie when giving factual information?

 

IMO, all she had to do, if the kids said something about Santa living at the North Pole, was laugh and say something like, "OK gang, this is a Geography lesson, not a Christmas lesson" and let it go at that. We learned about the North Pole when we were in elementary school, and Santa was never mentioned. We learned about the climate and the wildlife, but the Christmas aspect was never brought up at all.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

:iagree:

 

Technically she was teaching geography (including who lives in a locale) correctly. Santa Claus does not live there. But there were ways that she could have handled the subject matter without bursting their bubble or commenting on who brings presents etc. She would have had to lie to do it though - "Yes, Santa lives there. But if you go there on a scientific mission you won't see him or his workshop because they are magically invisible. Instead this is what you would see. . . " So that brings up the question - should teachers lie when giving factual information?

 

She did not have to lie. She could have easily said, "Yes, some people believe Santa lives there." That is not a lie, nor does it confirm that Santa lives there. It is simply restating some people's beliefs. Some people believe the literal version of the creation story in Genesis. If a teacher doesn't believe the same way, is it his/her prerogative to disabuse a student of that notion?

[jenL]

She did not have to lie. She could have easily said, "Yes, some people believe Santa lives there." That is not a lie, nor does it confirm that Santa lives there. It is simply restating some people's beliefs. Some people believe the literal version of the creation story in Genesis. If a teacher doesn't believe the same way, is it his/her prerogative to disabuse a student of that notion?

 

:iagree: I believe she owes the parents and apology because she completely stepped on their toes in this case (imho). I was a public school teacher, and there are many ways she could have better handled this to keep herself neutral.

[DawnM]

I do admit the year I taught 1st grade Sunday School (seriously, what were they thinking giving a former high school teacher 1st grade?)

 

After Christmas so many of the kids came back and said, "Look what Santa brought me." I would never say Santa isn't real, but it was VERY HARD for me to comment.

 

I am not anti-Santa, but we don't do him in our house and never have. We aren't opposed to Santa ornaments or Santa cute Christmas decorations, but we have never given gifts from Santa or anything.

 

Dawn

[BMW]

Or... she could have told the truth, IF she knew about North Pole, Alaska and Santa Claus. I lived in North Pole, Alaska and there IS a beautiful Santa house which is a wonderful place to visit and see! We drove past Santa's house several times a week...

 

http://www.santaclaushouse.com/about.asp

 

But, as far as the geography lesson goes, North Pole, Alaska is certainly not the North Pole. Hopefully she learns not to dash the fun of Christmas and Santa...

[GingerPoppy]

I chose "other": she told the truth, but it was kind of crappy of her. However, I don't think it's worth a disciplinary action. It is hard to be a teacher these days. You have to watch every syllable you ever utter, because you're bound to tick someone off, or worse--OFFEND them. :glare: I think some pp have come up with reasonable things she could have said instead, but sometimes when you're in front of a class and thinking (or not thinking) on the spot, it doesn't always come out how it would if you had some time to consider your words first. That's human. I think we need to allow our teachers to be human.

 

This is one of many reasons I'm not currently in a classroom; it's very stressful to have your every word considered under a microscope.

[Mama2Many4]

I can't believe the 4 people that voted she should lose her job!

 

Seriously! :001_huh: Over outing Santa! :glare: Okay, so she should foreclose on her home, possibly displacing herself and her OWN children because she exposed the myth of Santa. C'mon now.

[stripe]

This article is hilarious!

 

A teacher ruined Christmas for a class full of second-graders when she told them that there is no Santa Claus during a lesson about the North Pole at their Rockland County, N.Y., school.

 

The educator even told the youngsters, mostly 7 and 8-year-olds, that the presents under their trees were put out by their parents, and not St. Nick.

 

 

Ruined Christmas? Not to mention the woman who said this strips children of their innocence?

 

Personally, I think a kid of age 7 or 8 should long ago asked their parents, if Santa brings alll the presents, why every store is decked out for present-buying from mid-September onward? What is Black Friday about? And why all that screaming about "stranger danger!" doesn't apply to being forced to sit on some old man's lap and whisper in his ear? I think sexually expliccit ads might disturb a child's innocence, but not having The Great Lie exposed!

 

What people chose to get upset about amuses me.

 

When do most kids find out the truth about Santa? Around the first time the newlywed woman finds out babies don't come from the cabbage patch?

[Alte Veste Academy]

She sounds like a jerk. I don't know what I'd do or what is the appropriate reaction. Maybe some training on how to be less of a jerk.

 

OK, this was EXACTLY my thought. The discipline needs to be somewhere between what would most likely be a lame and insincere apology and dismissal but I don't know what.

 

The fact is, it was not her right to destroy the kids' belief in Santa, no more than it would be her right to destroy kids' belief in God if she were an atheist. It's ridiculous to say she would have to lie. Many people have already pointed out what she could have said instead. Instead, she was just mean. She just sounds mean...and self-important. I don't know. I don't think someone with so little common sense and self-control ought to be working with 2nd graders, personally. The whole things makes me cranky and I would be livid. Kids have the rest of their lives to be cynical and I prefer to let some magic stay in their lives as long as possible. Frankly, it's my choice, not some holier than thou 2nd grade teacher who puts her own opinions before the feelings of her pupils or their families.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[Alte Veste Academy]

This article is hilarious!

 

 

 

Ruined Christmas? Not to mention the woman who said this strips children of their innocence?

 

Personally, I think a kid of age 7 or 8 should long ago asked their parents, if Santa brings alll the presents, why every store is decked out for present-buying from mid-September onward? What is Black Friday about? And why all that screaming about "stranger danger!" doesn't apply to being forced to sit on some old man's lap and whisper in his ear? I think sexually expliccit ads might disturb a child's innocence, but not having The Great Lie exposed!

 

What people chose to get upset about amuses me.

 

When do most kids find out the truth about Santa? Around the first time the newlywed woman finds out babies don't come from the cabbage patch?

 

Your kids and family members don't receive gifts from anyone but Santa? Here, my kids get one big gift and their stocking filled from Santa. Everything else is from Mom & Dad, grandparents, friends and family... The decorations at Christmas aren't terribly difficult to explain here.

 

Raise your children how you want. That's your right. The point is, it wasn't up to her. It's not for you to determine what is an appropriate age for kids to know...minus your own. It's not for her either.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I thought the same thing. What would people say if she stood at the front of the class and told the kids there was no such thing as god and that their parents had been lying to them all along?

 

She would be out of there. I know all the believers will most likely feel that it's not an apt comparison because they believe God really does exist. But to an atheist, he doesn't.

[chiguirre]

I think by second grade, most (almost all) kids know there is no Santa. They'll still play along to get the loot, but they know their parents buy the toys. I'd be upset if she told a bunch of 3 yos that, but I think 2nd grade is plenty old enough to not play along with the Santa myth during a geography lesson.

 

If you're upset that she told the kids there's no Santa, at what grade would you be okay with it?

[SKL]

She should not be allowed to teach at that age level, since she has shown she clearly does not understand how second-graders think and learn. Move her to the 5th grade or something. And she should have to undergo some sort of retraining.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think by second grade, most (almost all) kids know there is no Santa. They'll still play along to get the loot, but they know their parents buy the toys. I'd be upset if she told a bunch of 3 yos that, but I think 2nd grade is plenty old enough to not play along with the Santa myth during a geography lesson.

 

If you're upset that she told the kids there's no Santa, at what grade would you be okay with it?

 

It wasn't her place. Period. There were clearly still believers in that class and it was not her place to tell them Mom and Dad left the gifts and not Santa.

 

I don't know at what age my opinion might change but sure as heck not second grade.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think by second grade, most (almost all) kids know there is no Santa. They'll still play along to get the loot, but they know their parents buy the toys. I'd be upset if she told a bunch of 3 yos that, but I think 2nd grade is plenty old enough to not play along with the Santa myth during a geography lesson.

 

Here is a WTM poll about when kids stop believing. Very enlightening. There is likely a protective factor from homeschooling but still...

[southernm]

Yes, I think any disciplinary action is always dependent on previous issues.

 

I wonder if this was a young teacher? I know that after college, where my preconceived ideas about just about everything were challenged, I felt it my duty to impart that questioning spirit on others. I didn't do it in the classroom though, but I taught middle school right out of college.

 

Dawn

 

:iagree: this sounds like something done out of immaturity. Also sounds like something that comes from people without children. This teacher at the very least needs to be retrained on what is appropriate to say and what her boundaries are as a professional responsible for children. I think most adults in that position would know better.

Edited December 4, 2011 by southernm

[Parrothead]

Considering she made the lives of some parents just a little bit difficult I think she should apologize to them. But I also think she should apologize to the kids.

 

Then I think she should be moved to a class with older children.

[Parker Martin]

I thought the same thing. What would people say if she stood at the front of the class and told the kids there was no such thing as god and that their parents had been lying to them all along?

 

I don't agree. Santa isn't in the same realm as religious or political belief. No adult believes in Santa. There is no difference of opinion or question open to interpretation. Santa does not exist. Santa is completely made up. No adult disagrees about that. Adults only disagree about whether or not it is appropriate to make children believe that Santa exists. That's a far cry from politics or religion.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't agree. Santa isn't in the same realm as religious or political belief. No adult believes in Santa. There is no difference of opinion or question open to interpretation. Santa does not exist. Santa is completely made up. No adult disagrees about that. Adults only disagree about whether or not it is appropriate to make children believe that Santa exists. That's a far cry from politics or religion.

 

Oh, adult or child. Irrelevant.

 

What you've got is one group of people "in the know" who view those who are not in the know as naive and needing an education. The problem is you're looking at it as a believer. For those who don't believe, there is little difference at all between God and Santa. To an atheist, they're just two people who don't exist.

[Parker Martin]

Oh, adult or child. Irrelevant.

 

What you've got is one group of people "in the know" who view those who are not in the know as naive and needing an education. The problem is you're looking at it as a believer. For those who don't believe, there is little difference at all between God and Santa. To an atheist, they're just two people who don't exist.

 

It's very relevant. Adults are "in the know" compared to children. Children are naive and needing an education.

 

The problem isn't that I'm looking at it as a believer. I would have a huge problem with a teacher standing at the front of the room saying, "Those of you with atheist parents need to know that your parents are wrong and going to hell."

 

The problem is that you're simplifying too much.

 

There is a huge difference between children's fantasy and the varying beliefs of adults.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Parker Martin
typo

[Alte Veste Academy]

It's very relevant. Adults are "in the know" compared to children. Children are naive and needing an education.

 

The problem isn't that I'm looking at it as a believer. I would have a huge problem with a teacher standing at the front of the room saying, "Those of you with atheist parents need to know that you're parents are wrong and going to hell."

 

The problem is that you're simplifying too much.

 

There is a huge difference between children's fantasy and the varying beliefs of adults.

 

Well, we disagree. :) I think simplifying the issue is exactly what is needed here. The teacher overstepped her bounds. Period. It is, in fact, that simple.

[TranquilMind]

I thought the same thing. What would people say if she stood at the front of the class and told the kids there was no such thing as god and that their parents had been lying to them all along?

Well, she can't. She is Constitutionally prohibited from touching religion that as a state agent.

 

Besides, that would be a lie. Saying there is no Santa Claus is true.

 

Which is why, by the way, my ex-"magick" practicing (really dark arts) friend used to tell me she thought it was really unwise to tell children about Jesus, whom they can't see, and Santa, whom they can't see, and treat them both as "true", because when they find out they were lied to about Santa, they may well think the parents were lying about Jesus as well. I think she has a point.

[Ester Maria]

To an atheist, they're just two people who don't exist.

No, they are not. Santa is very easy to debunk via elementary physics, geography and common sense - and that is completely within the realm of intellectual capacities of an average 8 yo to grasp.

God, on the other hand, is a being whose existence is incomparable to any other kind of existence, to whom no kind of an attribute can be attached, who cannot be accessed through the human conceptual apparatus anyway... A whole 'nother story.

Santa is a popular belief. I do understand that some people's religious sentiments are on the level of a popular belief anyway, especially young people's, not very distinguished from a belief in Santa, conceptually and complexity-wise (you know, the level of "an old man in the sky with a beard who watches you") - but definitely not everybody's; in the realm of more sophisticated theology those are two completely different things which are not comparable at all. Even if the kids were told God did not exist, parents could have argued better because there are levels of sophistication in how you address the God issue. Not so when it comes to Santa.

 

As regards the consequences for this particular teacher, I believe that an apology to the parents whom she put into a difficult situation would be nice if it comes spontaneously, but it should not in any way be requested from her to keep a job or appease parents. So I voted for the first option.

[Alte Veste Academy]

You have as much proof of the existence of a god as I do of Santa. Because you believe it is not proof.

 

:iagree:

 

I suppose a big difference here is that people are actively pretending to be Santa and if they don't, no gifts appear. No one is running around pretending to be God, making miracles appear. Maybe that is why it's harder to debunk God as truth. :lol:

 

No, they are not. Santa is very easy to debunk via elementary physics, geography and common sense - and that is completely within the realm of intellectual capacities of an average 8 yo to grasp.

God, on the other hand, is a being whose existence is incomparable to any other kind of existence, to whom no kind of an attribute can be attached, who cannot be accessed through the human conceptual apparatus anyway... A whole 'nother story.

Santa is a popular belief. I do understand that some people's religious sentiments are on the level of a popular belief anyway, especially young people's, not very distinguished from a belief in Santa, conceptually and complexity-wise (you know, the level of "an old man in the sky with a beard who watches you") - but definitely not everybody's; in the realm of more sophisticated theology those are two completely different things which are not comparable at all. Even if the kids were told God did not exist, parents could have argued better because there are levels of sophistication in how you address the God issue. Not so when it comes to Santa.

 

Your comments about the comparison between God and Santa are based on your belief system. It is not my place to tell people what or how to believe. However, the same condescension with which people treat playing Santa is the same condescension with which many treat belief in God. I am saying that neither is appropriate or particularly flattering. You see them as different because you are a believer. Yes, Santa as a mythical man who comes down the chimney in homes throughout the world is easy to debunk as untrue. For some, God as truth is equally easy to debunk.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[Alte Veste Academy]

We didn't have a chimney growing up so Santa came through the keyhole. A friend of mine said he came through the lint trap in the dryer. :D

 

Oh, I bet their Santa smelled April Fresh. :tongue_smilie:

[Mommy22alyns]

I think by second grade, most (almost all) kids know there is no Santa. They'll still play along to get the loot, but they know their parents buy the toys. I'd be upset if she told a bunch of 3 yos that, but I think 2nd grade is plenty old enough to not play along with the Santa myth during a geography lesson.

 

If you're upset that she told the kids there's no Santa, at what grade would you be okay with it?

 

No, I disagree. And it's not her place to decide when these kids should find out. Maybe 5th or 6th grade, but I just don't think a teacher needs to be addressing Santa.

[Ester Maria]

Your comments about the comparison between God and Santa are based on your belief system. It is not my place to tell people what or how to believe. However, the same condescension with which people treat playing Santa is the same condescension with which many treat belief in God. I am saying that neither is appropriate or particularly flattering. You see them as different because you are a believer. Yes, Santa as a mythical man who comes down the chimney in homes throughout the world is easy to debunk as untrue. For some, God as truth is equally easy to debunk.

Actually, my heresies are so profound that I am a de facto atheist. :tongue_smilie:

 

For the sake of brevity, I typically declare myself as an atheist too. I still see a more sophisticated belief in God to be a completely different thing than a belief in Santa. All the other atheists or "heretics at the point of no return, i.e. de facto atheists" whom I know, also agree that the two kinds of belief are not comparable, actually. It is typically the religious people who tend to compare them, in my experience, which confuses me.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Actually, my heresies are so profound that I am a de facto atheist. :tongue_smilie:

 

For the sake of brevity, I typically declare myself as an atheist too. I still see a more sophisticated belief in God to be a completely different thing than a belief in Santa. All the other atheists or "heretics at the point of no return, i.e. de facto atheists" whom I know, also agree that the two kinds of belief are not comparable, actually. It is typically the religious people who tend to compare them, in my experience, which confuses me.

 

Well I'm :lol: because I'm agnostic. And I was just about to edit my comment above because I feel like I am coming across as mean and condescending myself. :blush:

 

For the record, I do not have any ill will or feelings of condescension for those who believe in God. I personally feel it is unknowable. I have tried to believe, and failed. But I am imperfect enough to understand that all I could ever know is not ever going to be all there is to know.

 

Plus, I have a cold and my brain is getting pretty fuzzy. I only ever wanted to say that I think the teacher seriously overstepped. Then I should have walked away. I didn't particularly want to do a compare/contrast between God and Santa. Not on cold meds anyway. :tongue_smilie:

[Ester Maria]

Plus, I have a cold and my brain is getting pretty fuzzy. I only ever wanted to say that I think the teacher seriously overstepped. Then I should have walked away. I didn't particularly want to do a compare/contrast between God and Santa. Not on cold meds anyway. :tongue_smilie:

Relax, we're just chatting! No ill feelings here at all! :001_smile:

It is me who just. cannot. resist. when it comes to discussions like these and has to spice it with pointless pseudo-theological comments, LOL.

 

Take care, I hope you get well soon. :grouphug:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Relax, we're just chatting! No ill feelings here at all! :001_smile:

It is me who just. cannot. resist. when it comes to discussions like these and has to spice it with pointless pseudo-theological comments, LOL.

 

Take care, I hope you get well soon. :grouphug:

 

Thanks. :)

 

If you're in the mood and simply can't resist... :tongue_smilie: Here is the problem I've always had, in a nutshell:

 

Big Bang: What created it? How did it come about? I don't mean the physics of it necessarily. I mean an explanation of how something ultimately came of nothing. Was there ever nothing? Then how did the first something come along? Where did matter ultimately come from? And how? And the thing before it? And so on and so on and so on...

 

God: Where did He come from? Who created Him? How did He come into being? What was before him or did he come from nothing? If so, how?

 

Essentially, I don't understand any which way how anything began, ever. In my mind, there had to always have been something to come before. It creates an idea of reverse infinity in my mind that becomes incomprehensible (cold or not). :lol:

 

I would be happy with the short answer. :tongue_smilie:

[Alte Veste Academy]

I feel the same. To each their own. I just do get my panties in a twist when I read stuff like this though because it's mean spirited. I doubt the teacher is that clueless so I can only conclude that she is mean or thinks she has the authority to step on parent's toes. I don't know that it should cost her her job, but it makes me wonder what kind of teacher she is.

 

:iagree:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Not that I'm a scientist or anything, but I've always found the Big Bang theory a bit unsatisfying. What makes more sense to me is not that there was nothing and then something (bang!), but that these occurrences were always there and always will be. Our universe is probably one of many. There are probably other "bangs" and will be more bangs. It will be an endless cycle with no beginning and no end (maybe an end to this universe, but not the end of all as in nothingness). I think we have a hard time wrapping our head around the idea of infinity because as far as we can tell, things begin and end.

 

I watch a lot of Science channel. :D

 

I can see this. But still, where did it come from? :lol:

[myfunnybunch]

Tempest in a teapot.

 

If my child had been in that class, I'd be upset and would have said so to the teacher. It certainly wasn't her place, and an apology is definitely in order.

 

But disciplinary action? Nah. She was telling the truth, after all. Santa is a fun game. I love playing Santa, and my kids love the story. There were many other ways she could have handled that situation. But there's no bearded fat guy in a red suit living at the North Pole with a bunch of toy-making elves. To take disciplinary action that goes on a teacher's permanent record over a game or story is too much.

 

LOL, and scrolling through to see where the thread is going...I've always felt iffy about the Big Bang, too.

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

I think by second grade, most (almost all) kids know there is no Santa. They'll still play along to get the loot, but they know their parents buy the toys. I'd be upset if she told a bunch of 3 yos that, but I think 2nd grade is plenty old enough to not play along with the Santa myth during a geography lesson.

 

If you're upset that she told the kids there's no Santa, at what grade would you be okay with it?

 

Most of the 2nd and 3rd graders I know still believe in Santa, and several are much older than that.

 

It's not up to the teacher to decide if and/or for how long her students should believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. These are family rituals, not school-related issues.

 

She should have kept her mouth shut, and if the kids questioned her, she could have easily joked her way out of answering them.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Santa Claus?

 

:lol:

[mom4him]

I may be off but I feel this is just one more sign of the rights of the parent being undermined. This is a personal family dynamic that was destroyed and would be very difficult to reconstruct. What would you do a s a parent, tell the child that the teacher lied? Um, well, no, but..... how would you reconstruct the innocent thinking of your child.

 

My biggest question is why would a teacher feel he/she has the right to take this belief away from a child. That is the parents place when and if that child is ready.

 

As an example, I have never 'taught' my children Santa Clause as a reality. One yr I had a friend that was going to be taking her family to an early Mass on Christmas eve and asked me if I would come over while they were gone and put the gifts out under the tree. She was pretty explicit that I needed to eat the cookies and drink the milk also.:D So I did as requested but I also left a note from 'Santa'. It thanked the kids for being so good that year(the family had really had a rough year), said thanks for the yummy cookies and milk as the last couple of houses hadn't left me anything and I was really in need of nourishment by the time I had gotten to theirs, and encouraged them to enjoy the presents that they had gotten. The youngest little girl was around 7-8. My friend said that when she found that note she simply went bonkers! Someone at school had told her there wasn't a Santa and she had been afraid to even tell her mom but now she was going to go back to school and show the other kid the proof that there really was a Santa. What a fun Christmas that was. Nothing else really matter. What was important was I had been able to help keep a little one a bit more innocent for a short time longer.:001_smile:

[SKL]

Thanks. :)

 

If you're in the mood and simply can't resist... :tongue_smilie: Here is the problem I've always had, in a nutshell:

 

Big Bang: What created it? How did it come about? I don't mean the physics of it necessarily. I mean an explanation of how something ultimately came of nothing. Was there ever nothing? Then how did the first something come along? Where did matter ultimately come from? And how? And the thing before it? And so on and so on and so on...

 

God: Where did He come from? Who created Him? How did He come into being? What was before him or did he come from nothing? If so, how?

 

Essentially, I don't understand any which way how anything began, ever. In my mind, there had to always have been something to come before. It creates an idea of reverse infinity in my mind that becomes incomprehensible (cold or not). :lol:

 

I would be happy with the short answer. :tongue_smilie:

 

That's the thing - nobody has a proven, proveable theory about the "big questions." You either choose one theory or another, or decide that you just can't know for sure. And if you can't know for sure, that means you can't know for sure whether other people are right or wrong in their beliefs, either.

 

To each her own, but I think it's sadly ignorant when someone, regardless of educational background, looks with contempt upon another for their heartfelt beliefs about the "big questions." It actually amazes me that some smart people can be so stupid about some things.

[SKL]

Whenever we told our parents "___ says there's no such thing as Santa," my parents replied "I guess __ isn't getting anything from Santa for this year!" Eventually logic won out and we simply realized that it was all a fun game - and we would never spoil it for younger children. However, in those days, most of the kids figured out Santa by around age 8. Nowadays, I see some parents going to great lengths to perpetuate it longer. I'm not sure why. Maybe because folks have fewer kids and the parents aren't ready to give up Santa by the age when their youngest is ready.

 

I kind of want to tell my kids next year (they'll be around 6) because I want them to watch some Christmas classics like A Christmas Story and Miracle on 34th Street, which would be hard to watch with "believers."

[SKL]

But don't assume that if someone disagrees with a belief that they feel contempt towards others for not agreeing. I don't feel that way at all.

 

I didn't get the impression that you do. But I do get that impression from some, here and elsewhere.

[SKL]

Oddly my kids both watched A Christmas Story several times and never made the connection.

 

My 4yo would be all over the word "scoffers." That would be it for Santa.

[Ester Maria]

If you're in the mood and simply can't resist... :tongue_smilie:

PM'ed you, with the definite answer to all those questions of course. :tongue_smilie:

[SKL]

IOne yr I had a friend that was going to be taking her family to an early Mass on Christmas eve and asked me if I would come over while they were gone and put the gifts out under the tree. She was pretty explicit that I needed to eat the cookies and drink the milk also.:D So I did as requested but I also left a note from 'Santa'. It thanked the kids for being so good that year(the family had really had a rough year), said thanks for the yummy cookies and milk as the last couple of houses hadn't left me anything and I was really in need of nourishment by the time I had gotten to theirs, and encouraged them to enjoy the presents that they had gotten. The youngest little girl was around 7-8. My friend said that when she found that note she simply went bonkers! Someone at school had told her there wasn't a Santa and she had been afraid to even tell her mom but now she was going to go back to school and show the other kid the proof that there really was a Santa. What a fun Christmas that was. Nothing else really matter. What was important was I had been able to help keep a little one a bit more innocent for a short time longer.:001_smile:

 

I left a thank-you note from Santa last year, because the kids had worked really hard to make him some cookies. The kids' eyes got so big, LOL.