Anyone else rather tired of sarcasm?

[Impish]

Awwww, not a Dr Who fan? They are robot things with weird little gross aliens controlling them.

I've seen the odd episode, but sorry, no.

[Impish]

I wouldn't debate that. :)

*snort* In the right mood, you'd debate anything.

 

One of the things I love about you. :001_wub:

[Mrs Mungo]

*snort* In the right mood, you'd debate anything.

 

One of the things I love about you. :001_wub:

 

Okay, that is probably true. But, I am sitting here with my hubby (he is paying bills), watching highlights from the last season of Dr Who, eating an orange popsicle, life is good. ;)

[Impish]

Okay, that is probably true. But, I am sitting here with my hubby (he is paying bills), watching highlights from the last season of Dr Who, eating an orange popsicle, life is good. ;)

Wow, you *are* mellow. Did your dh spike your popcicle with Mike's?

[justamouse]

I was predicting your answer. I predicted correctly. Were you being sarcastic? Because that would be fairly ironic.

 

second time you made me laugh outloud today

[Audrey]

She was just quoting someone else who had quoted Wilde. That is totally different. ;)

 

 

Well, of course it is! ;)

[Audrey]

I was predicting your answer. I predicted correctly. Were you being sarcastic? Because that would be fairly ironic.

 

 

:lol: Oh, well... there goes a perfectly good mouthful of coffee!

[Word Nerd]

Awwww, not a Dr Who fan? They are robot things with weird little gross aliens controlling them.

 

And they are quite cute as mass-murdering species go. (The outside covering, I mean.)

[nmoira]

 

:lol: Oh, well... there goes a perfectly good mouthful of coffee!

Mine was ice tea.

[MamaSheep]

I'm thinking some definitions might help add some clarity to this discussion because I'm not sure we're all intending the same meaning when we say "sarcasm". By definition sarcasm is taunting, cutting, contemptuous, and bitter. But there are other forms of expression that are somewhat similar but not mean-spirited, like irony, parody, satire, and puns. I'm thinking the post we've been referring to was a satirical parody, and not sarcasm at all. And just for the record, I'm a big fan of irony, parody, satire, puns, hyperbole, and all manner of verbal playfulness. I dislike sarcasm, however, because by definition it is demeaning and unkind and can also be confusing to some people.

 

Here are some relevant snips from dictionary.com

_________

sar·casm

  noun

1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.

2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

 

World English Dictionary

sarcasm (ˈsɑːkæzəm) — n 1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult 2. the use or tone of such language [C16: from Late Latin sarcasmus, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to rend the flesh, from sarx flesh]

 

_________

 

i·ro·ny

1.the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!†when I said I had to work all weekend.

2. Literature . a.a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

b. (especially in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.

3. Socratic irony.

4. dramatic irony.

5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

___________

 

pun 1— n

1. the use of words or phrases to exploit ambiguities and innuendoes in their meaning, usually for humorous effect; a play on words.

2. ( intr ) to make puns

 

__________

 

sat·ire

noun 1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.

3. a literary genre comprising such compositions.

 

____________

par·o·dy

noun 1. a humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing: his hilarious parody of Hamlet's soliloquy.

 

2. the genre of literary composition represented by such imitations.

 

3. a burlesque imitation of a musical composition.

 

4. any humorous, satirical, or burlesque imitation, as of a person, event, etc.

 

5. the use in the 16th century of borrowed material in a musical setting of the Mass (parody Mass).

[Jennifer3141]

I was predicting your answer. I predicted correctly. Were you being sarcastic? Because that would be fairly ironic.

 

:cheers2:

 

And why isn't this your signature????

[Lady Florida.]

:cheers2:

 

And why isn't this your signature????

 

That would be an awesome signature!

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I'm thinking some definitions might help add some clarity to this discussion because I'm not sure we're all intending the same meaning when we say "sarcasm". By definition sarcasm is taunting, cutting, contemptuous, and bitter. But there are other forms of expression that are somewhat similar but not mean-spirited, like irony, parody, satire, and puns. I'm thinking the post we've been referring to was a satirical parody, and not sarcasm at all. And just for the record, I'm a big fan of irony, parody, satire, puns, hyperbole, and all manner of verbal playfulness. I dislike sarcasm, however, because by definition it is demeaning and unkind and can also be confusing to some people.

 

Here are some relevant snips from dictionary.com

_________

sar·casm

  noun

1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.

2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

 

World English Dictionary

sarcasm (ˈsɑːkæzəm) — n 1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult 2. the use or tone of such language [C16: from Late Latin sarcasmus, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to rend the flesh, from sarx flesh]

 

_________

 

i·ro·ny

1.the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!†when I said I had to work all weekend.

2. Literature . a.a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

b. (especially in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.

3. Socratic irony.

4. dramatic irony.

5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

___________

 

pun 1— n

1. the use of words or phrases to exploit ambiguities and innuendoes in their meaning, usually for humorous effect; a play on words.

2. ( intr ) to make puns

 

__________

 

sat·ire

noun 1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.

2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.

3. a literary genre comprising such compositions.

 

____________

par·o·dy

noun 1. a humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing: his hilarious parody of Hamlet's soliloquy.

 

2. the genre of literary composition represented by such imitations.

 

3. a burlesque imitation of a musical composition.

 

4. any humorous, satirical, or burlesque imitation, as of a person, event, etc.

 

5. the use in the 16th century of borrowed material in a musical setting of the Mass (parody Mass).

 

Thank you for that, Amy!! That's what I've been asking about. I say that I like, and often use, sarcasm. But, based on the definitions you just gave, I actually dislike sarcasm, but I LOVE satire, irony and puns! My head is now clear! :D

[Elisabeth in IL]

Mamasheep Thanks for the definitions. Based on those definitions, I dislike sarcasm but enjoy the others on occasion.

[funschooler5]

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite Kids in the Hall sketches:

 

Guy with sarcastic speech impediment

[MamaSheep]

Thank you for that, Amy!! That's what I've been asking about. I say that I like, and often use, sarcasm. But, based on the definitions you just gave, I actually dislike sarcasm, but I LOVE satire, irony and puns! My head is now clear! :D

 

Mamasheep Thanks for the definitions. Based on those definitions, I dislike sarcasm but enjoy the others on occasion.

 

AAAaaaah clarity! It's a beautiful thing. :)

 

Happy to be of help.

[funschooler5]

:iagree: I will never, ever, in a thousand, million, billion years, understand how Carrot Top has a career.

 

And wth is with his eyebrows?

 

No kidding! I think he's had some work done. He's starting to get Joan Rivers' waxy complexion.

[kalanamak]

I'm very sick of mean-spirited snarkiness, particularly when it belittles those holding different religious beliefs.

 

I'll take snark over frank insult. I have learned on this board that I am raising my child in a "spiritual vacuum" and that he will fall prey to something evil that way, and that mothers are upset when their children play so badly in a mixed group you "can't tell them from the non-Christian children".

 

At least snark leaves a little leeway so that cheerful me can take it as humor. Really.

[MamaSheep]

I'll take snark over frank insult. I have learned on this board that I am raising my child in a "spiritual vacuum" and that he will fall prey to something evil that way, and that mothers are upset when their children play so badly in a mixed group you "can't tell them from the non-Christian children".

 

At least snark leaves a little leeway so that cheerful me can take it as humor. Really.

 

Interesting. I'd rather they just be frank and insult me without the side-order of mockery. To each her own, I guess. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

I think I can make an argument that common usage for sarcasm is slightly different than that definition. Please reference season 2, episode 13 of Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. The episode is called, "My So-called Wife," and is the one in which Bloo learns about sarcasm. It is on youtube. ;)

[MamaSheep]

I think I can make an argument that common usage for sarcasm is slightly different than that definition. Please reference season 2, episode 13 of Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. The episode is called, "My So-called Wife," and is the one in which Bloo learns about sarcasm. It is on youtube. ;)

 

Which is why I thought an extended vocabulary and specific definitions would help us understand each other better.

 

Although I very much enjoy Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends as amusing entertainment, I'm not yet prepared to accept it as a peer-reviewed resource for academic research into linguistics. However, if you view it that way, I can live with that. I think, though, that if we're to have an effective discussion it would be helpful for each of us to understand the other's usage. Just for the sake of clarity, you know.

[YLVD]

Here are ten reasons for you to put the sarcasm aside.

 

 

1. First, the practical: sarcasm is ambiguous. A sarcastic message depends heavily on tone of voice, body language and other nonverbal cues to be properly understood. The true meaning of a sarcastic message is easily lost over the phone–and you can forget about sarcastic comments being properly understood in written communication. Sarcasm often goes unnoticed without the change in inflection or raised eyebrow to signal its presence. And if you miss those cues, sarcastic remarks don’t make any sense.

2. Sarcasm translates poorly. E SL teachers are taught to never use sarcasm: it’s just not understood by their students.

3. Sarcasm is a defense mechanism. It’s not a very good one, because of the inherent negative nature of sarcasm. If you need a positive defense mechanism, make it laughter. (Just make sure it’s friendly laughter.)

4. Sarcasm is cynical. Do you want to be known as a person who is “scornfully and habitually negative� That’s the dictionary definition of a cynic. Sarcasm is both a product and reinforcer of negative thinking. Find some happier thoughts. Don’t wallow in negativity.

5. Sarcasm is negative by its very nature. There’s a reason the saying goes “accentuate the positive.†Nothing good comes from sarcasm.

6. Sarcasm is mean and can be used as a veil for truly hurtful criticism. The element of humor takes the edge off a bit, but it’s still mean. Don’t be a bully; drop the sarcasm.

7. Sarcasm is for cowards. The touch of humor in sarcastic comments can hide criticisms far too aggressive to be spoken plainly. If you can’t bring yourself to directly say what you really mean, you shouldn’t say it at all.

8. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, says Oscar Wilde. It’s not funny; it doesn’t make you seem witty. Take Emily Post’s advice instead: “As a possession for either man or woman, a ready smile is more valuable in life than a ready wit.â€

9. Sarcasm is a means of judging others. Do you really need to belittle others to make yourself look better? Don’t be the jerk with the superiority complex. Use kind words instead.

10. Sarcasm wastes words that could be put to better use. Kind words are the best thing we can give another person. Sarcasm trades kindness for cruelty. It serves no higher purpose; it builds no one up. Silence is far preferable to sarcasm, but kind words are better still.

Too many sarcastic people in my life.

ETA: A member here was kind enough to point out I accidentally forgot to credit the author of this passage. It is from the Modern Ms. Darcy blog (which I love) http://modernmrsdarcy.com/2011/03/you-can-kick-the-sarcastic-habit/

 

Nope, I love sarcasm and use it often.

 

I just can't be serious most of the time. I find it boring.

[Rosie_0801]

If misusing apostropes kills kittens, what happens if you misspell "Dalek?"

 

:tongue_smilie:

Rosie

[cdrumm4448]

I was predicting your answer. I predicted correctly. Were you being sarcastic? Because that would be fairly ironic.

 

The behavior displayed here was what I expected. That was my "prediction". Assumptions, mean-spirited retorts, snarkiness, cutting remarks. If it walks like a duck...

Edited August 14, 2011 by cdrumm4448

[Mrs Mungo]

If misusing apostropes kills kittens, what happens if you misspell "Dalek?"

 

:tongue_smilie:

Rosie

 

You kill a Dalek, that is why I did it, obviously! ;) :tongue_smilie: (was posting from my phone, it does weird things sometimes)

 

The behavior displayed here was what I expected. That was my "prediction". Assumptions, mean-spirited retorts, snarkiness, cutting remarks. If it walks like a duck...

 

What was mean-spirited? You see, I took Rosie's joke and joked back with her. Nobody made a mean personal attack or cutting remark. Honestly, I used a cartoon as a definition reference. You took that seriously?

 

Do I have to assume Amy was not joking because she was sort of swearing off sarcasm use? Because I think her post was pretty funny. I did not find it rude or hateful. Maybe if we just gave each a little more benefit of the doubt?

Edited August 14, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[FO4UR]

The behavior displayed here was what I expected. That was my "prediction". Assumptions, mean-spirited retorts, snarkiness, cutting remarks. If it walks like a duck...

 

 

If you expected this behavior, then why start this thread?:confused:

 

There is a difference between "mean" and verbal play...as other posters have said. When it gets mean, mods will handle it...or the Hive will attack...until then, we are having fun. (with grown people who understand our sarcasm)

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe if we just gave each a little more benefit of the doubt?

 

 

:iagree:

[8circles]

I'm not sure how to organize my thoughts here. I just feel like we're constantly dancing around the issue. Some people have personalities which make it easy for them to joke with people. Sometimes the jokes are mean, sometimes not. Other people don't have the gift of jest & just insult people outright. I've tried to do the former (even without the gift) & have definitely done the latter. One isn't better or worse than the other.

 

I wasn't trying to tell anyone anything here. I was talking about my real life.

 

I didn't believe you when you first posted & given some of your subsequent posts I stand by that. I think your OP was passive-aggressive. I've been guilty of that as well.

 

BTW, I actually agree with many of your posts - I'm politically conservative (Libertarian-leaning) & I think you make a lot of interesting points. So I read your posts with a bias to agree with you. This one, to me, had obvious meaning.

 

Well I think the thread you are referring to was fun AND very pointed. I didn't even post to it because I didn't have the time to sort through to see if I was one of the ones referred to as thinking my way is right. That was actually said to me in another thread prior to that...so yeah, it was sarcastic and probably directed at a few people specifically.

 

I think that thread that you're referring to was primarily about poking fun at ourselves - sometimes personally & sometimes collectively as the hive. I think that we're all guilty of at least some of the behaviors that were mocked in that thread.

[susankenny]

I like sarcasm, as long as it's from someone I can appreciate the banter from. Also, sarcasm is an art, and should only be used by certain people.

 

 

Susan

[cdrumm4448]

If you expected this behavior, then why start this thread?:confused:

 

Excellent question.

[Impish]

No kidding! I think he's had some work done. He's starting to get Joan Rivers' waxy complexion.

Work done...he looks like a taxidermist's home project!

[swellmomma]

Other people don't have the gift of jest & just insult people outright.

 

 

This is the problem I run into, I love sarcasm, but not very good at it, I tnd to accidently actually insult people when all I meant was to be funny. I really enjoy reading posts on here of people truely talented in sarcasm, because they can deliver the lines so flawlessly where I have to try so hard and still mangle them.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

I think that thread that you're referring to was primarily about poking fun at ourselves - sometimes personally & sometimes collectively as the hive. I think that we're all guilty of at least some of the behaviors that were mocked in that thread.

 

:iagree: That's exactly how I saw it, a fun way to make fun of ourselves. I think it is good sport to laugh at yourself from time to time. I think we can run amiss if we always take ourselves too seriously.

 

I really enjoy reading posts on here of people truely talented in sarcasm, because they can deliver the lines so flawlessly where I have to try so hard and still mangle them.

 

Me too! I love reading the humor and quick wit of several of the posters on the hive. They keep me laughing. And, as the Bible says, laughter and a cheerful heart is good like a medicine! ;)

 

So, keep the medicine coming, hive! :D