Anyone stuggle with the tithe?

[*Inna*]

My understanding is that the tithe was for Israel and not for the church. So even when we give money, we do not tithe. We go give as we are able - sometimes that is generously as God has graced us financially at that time, and sometimes it is meager as I do think that God wants us to take care of our financial obligations.

:iagree:

[MamaSheep]

I'm not EO (yet) but I'm fairly certain they don't "require" a tithe. I do know however, that they have a practice that doesn't involve reading the scriptures and trying to figure it *all out on our own*.

 

Thanks for clarifying that, I guess I misunderstood what you wrote. :001_smile:

[Georgiana Daniels]

I tithed for the better part of 20 years, both before and after marriage. God did many miraculous things during that time to provide for us!

 

BUT, I no longer believe it's a strict requirement for NT believers. Why is that one OT law that we still try to keep? Think of how many OT laws there are (I'm not referring to just the big 10 ;))--so why this one?

 

Technically, if you look at the example of NT believers, EVERYTHING they had belonged to God, not just the first 10%. Now that we have the Holy Spirit to direct us, aren't we supposed to listen and follow His directives within the patterns laid out in the Bible? The NT believers had "all things in common" and often sold everything they had to contribute to the communal pot.

 

Our household certainly hasn't reached that standard.

 

And I agree with the previous posters that it is between the giver and God.

 

Just my thoughts today, and I'm obviously not a theologian.

[justamouse]

I believe the first example of tithing is between Methuselah and Abraham. I love the organic greatfullness of that act. No law...that I know of. No verse being beaten over your head. I also really appreciate the closeness of the contact. Abraham had a direct relationship with him.

 

I am not in favor of the generalized tithing concepts that are presented in many churches.

 

There is a huge difference between doing the best you can with where you are at, trusting as far as you can, knowing that you are not perfect and are doing your best to take care of your family or not feeling comfortable with where the money might go......and being a scrooge who is able to give, but chooses not to.

 

:iagree: The guilt trip put on in mega churches drives me BATTY.

 

We tithe 10%. Anything over that is considered an offering unto God. We have tithed when we were making peanuts and we tithe now that we are making quite a bit more than peanuts. I believe that scripture says we are to tithe, I also believe it is a very personal decision. I think we are where we are today because we have been faithful with our finances.

 

And to those people who tithe and get their house foreclosed on? What, was that God's will? They didn't give enough? The opposite side of that coin is not so pretty.

 

Well said! Well Said! I agree with this completely.

 

I was raised with the 10% tithing concept, and I've been struggling with guilt for the past couple of years because we have just not been able to tithe regularly. Our church has helped us a couple of times during this period of time -- for which we've been extremely thankful -- but I have just felt soooooo guilty about receiving and not being able to give ourselves. I know it's because of my upbringing, and am trying to shake it. I also realize that my pastor's salary comes from people's tithes. He is a godly man that has ministered to our family time and again. Yet even he (who knows our situation) has said that we need to go ahead and pay our bills and not feel bad, but that if we choose to give that God will bless that too. He talks often of how religious we can get about this, especially those that were raised in the church and can struggle with legalism.

 

The message that is given in so many churches is such a pat answer. You know, if you don't step out and give even when it hurts, then it simply means that you just don't have faith and God won't help you in your situation. I remember one pastor answering the question of should you tithe on the gross or the net of your paycheck, and his answer was, "Well, how much do you want to be blessed - by the net or the gross amount?" This was the same church where the Sr. Pastor once shared in his sermon that he always keeps a $100 bill tucked away in his wallet for emergencies, and then opened his wallet to show everyone the bill. I was a single mom at the time and thought to myself that I'd give anything to be able to do that!

 

Honestly though, when people have been out of work and can barely pay the utility bills and the mortgage, is it fair to lay the 10% concept on them? I am beginning to believe we can trust God and put our faith in Him to carry us through even if we are going through a period of not being able to contribute as we have before. In my heart, things will get resolved and there can be a time of true generosity up ahead. And in the meantime, there are other ways of giving and ministering to the body as a sacrifice to the Lord.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

:iagree:

 

Man, is there some conference they all go to to get those same sermons? So true. I remember listening to the same thing, down to the $ in the wallet (my old Pastor's Pastor and I did not like that man in the least).

 

Let's extrapolate this out. So if we tithe when we have nothing, God blesses us.

 

And if we're not financially blessed? What? Our hearts are in the wrong spot? We weren't giving cheerfully? We have some secret sin?

 

What about the people who are financially blessed and who don't tithe?

 

Isn't it the same with healing? You didn't believe enough, you must have had something blocking your prayers, some sin...

 

I've seen people loose their faith because they faithfully gave when they had little to give and God didn't bless them 7 fold (or whatever the Pastor promised). They never crawled out of financial distress and they walked out of church.

 

It rains on the just and unjust (rain is a GOOD thing, as I think Texas could verify).

[lionfamily1999]

Why do bad things happen to good people? Well, it depends on your defnition of 'bad' doesn't it?

 

I've never known anyone who lost their house, because they tithed. I've lost my house, but it had nothing to do with my tithe. It was almost considered an "act of God" by an insurance company though :p In the end, losing our house was a HUGE blessing and one we could not have recieved had our house stood.

 

The two churches I have seen mentioned here (a pp's and my own) have helped when things have gotten too difficult to manage.

[Parrothead]

It wasn't my intention to sound judgemental. I really mean it when I say that if you feel at peace with that decision, then that's what you should do. I don't believe that God intended for my tax payments to be apart of my giving. I apologize for not applying that to only how I handle money.

 

I'm sorry that I answered differntly now. :( It wasn't meant to be judgmental. I was posting what I believe and learned to be true. I don't believe that taxes are a tithe.

Sure thing.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think taxes are tithe either. I do think if we were not required to pay so much in tax to fund social programs, people would be more willing to begin to give more to the church and other charitable organizations.

 

My church doesn't require tithing, but they do ask us to give of our time, talent and treasure. I often, at times very often, contribute much more of time and talent than treasure. (I'd probably give more treasure if the collection basket had a debit card machine. :D) Then at other times I just pick up the tab if there is a need and I know about it.

[lionfamily1999]

Sure thing.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think taxes are tithe either. I do think if we were not required to pay so much in tax to fund social programs, people would be more willing to begin to give more to the church and other charitable organizations.

I agree! If you weren't robbed before you even saw your paycheck you may give more freely.

 

My church doesn't require tithing, but they do ask us to give of our time, talent and treasure. I often, at times very often, contribute much more of time and talent than treasure. (I'd probably give more treasure if the collection basket had a debit card machine. :D) Then at other times I just pick up the tab if there is a need and I know about it.

:lol: There is a definite shortage of people willing to give time and talent. Having a swiper on the side of the collection plate (for cards) would probably boost giving quite a bit :lol:

[mytwomonkeys]

Sure, but I remind myself that this is me worshipping God in gratitude for what He has provided for us.

 

Us too.

[simka2]

:lol: There is a definite shortage of people willing to give time and talent. Having a swiper on the side of the collection plate (for cards) would probably boost giving quite a bit :lol:

 

Every church I have served in has had swipers or a line on the giving envelope where you could write in your credit or debit payment info. I don't think it made that big of a difference. ;)

[mom31257]

We tithe 10% to our local church, then do other offerings and ministry supports above and beyond that. We want to support our local church because we truly enjoy being a part of it. In order for it to function well, maintain the facility, and pay our staff, there has to be income. We have a full-time pastor and full-time assistant/youth pastor. We have a full-time secretary as well as other part-time staff. I've seen our staff in action, and they give 100% of themselves. I want them to be able to stay on.

 

Our church does not pass an offering plate or ask people to give each week. There are boxes on the walls of the sanctuary beside the doors. Offerings are only mentioned and taken up for special situations that are ministry outside the church expenses, such as helping needy families, buying shoes for children in countries that have to have them to go to school, etc.

[MelAR05]

My understanding is that the tithe was for Israel and not for the church. So even when we give money, we do not tithe. We go give as we are able - sometimes that is generously as God has graced us financially at that time, and sometimes it is meager as I do think that God wants us to take care of our financial obligations.

 

:iagree:

 

I believe the tithe is Old Testament and that the New Testament holds us to an even higher standard of sharing all things in common. That being said, I also believe that God honors a sincere and faithful heart of giving to Him.

[5kidsforME]

This is a personal and sensitive topic, and I don't want what I say to come across the wrong way. I view tithing as something that's really between the individual person and God and it's none of my business how other people choose to approach it, so please understand that what I'm about to say is only about MY thoughts on the subject for ME and MY FAMILY with no reference to, or judgment about, what other people do or don't do in this regard.

 

I'm another one who doesn't think of that 10% as "my" money, or as belonging to our family. I view it as God's money, and I would feel like I was stealing if I kept it. All that I have is His, and he has only specified what I should do with 10% of what He allows me to have. With the other 90% of the stuff He gives me, He lets me decide, and I find that more than generous. For me, paying tithing is an act of gratitude, of worship, of submission to God's will, as well as an expression of trust in God. So in some ways not paying tithing would also make me feel ungrateful and as if I were telling God I found Him untrustworthy, that I thought I was better at managing resources than He, and that my priorities are more important than His. For me, not to pay my tithing would be an act of rebellion against God. Again, this is just for me and not intended as any sort of judgment against people who view it differently. I see that as between Him and them, and none of my business. But because in my deepest heart I believe as I do about tithing, for me it would be an act of defiance to just take what I sincerely believe belongs to God, or to give it away to someone else (as if I thought that person more worthy to have it than God) rather than presenting it to Him in the manner I truly believe He requires.

 

It does help that it's a percentage rather than a set amount, because then as our income goes down so does the amount of our tithe--ten percent of little is less than ten percent of much. It also helps to know that if the 90% we use to support our family should drop to a level that would not sustain us, we can go to God's house and ask for help, and it would be given. And that's one of the reasons that during times of relative plenty we try hard to give generously out of "our" 90% (in addition to God's 10%) to the church's donation funds that are specifically for caring for those in need.

 

I completely agree with this. This is what we believe too.

[*********]

Everyone has to do what they feel is right. We all have to answer for ourselves someday. I think the tithe is to come FIRST. God says to give the firstfruits, not give of what is left over. Deut 18:4, KJV

 

Not picking on you PentecostalMom, it's just that you gave an example here of what bothers me about tithing.

 

Tithing is an OLD Testament law. As a Christian, under the new covenant of grace, I am not bound by it.

 

The New Testament instructs us to give cheerfully.

 

Why do some choose to follow and teach this one particular OT law?

[Dirtroad]

Ok, not to be discouraging of anyone's generosity, but have you ever stopped to consider that what you pay in taxes (ALL taxes, including sales tax) provides funding to many of the same functions once provided for by a community church?

 

OUCH! That is a good motivator for us to keep paying our tithe.

[Dirtroad]

Not picking on you PentecostalMom, it's just that you gave an example here of what bothers me about tithing.

 

Tithing is an OLD Testament law. As a Christian, under the new covenant of grace, I am not bound by it.

 

The New Testament instructs us to give cheerfully.

 

Why do some choose to follow and teach this one particular OT law?

 

Not exactly. Tithing is taught by every church that I have ever attended & most denominations. Without it, the church can't administer even the basic functions or keep a roof over their facilities. They can't offer food, finanicial assistance, or other means of help to needy.

 

It is essential and we are supposed to have a joyful heart b/c we TRUST GOD... not because we have joy in giving up our money when groceries are stil needed.

 

If it comes to giving up money... i never would have a cheerful heart. I drive an old van, live in too small of a house, can't afford new underwear, and would like to go on a real vacation.... :glare:.... so, no cheerful heart from within at all in regards to giving up a dollar. It is done in faith, duty, and under commandment or direction. With knowing this and that it is used to bless others.... and support the church... I can feel a bit relieved by it all.

[HSMom2One]

I have yet to find a utility company or mortgage company that will accept "waiting upon the Lord" as a reason to delay payment to them.

 

We've tithed and been blessed, we've tithed and NOT be blessed, we've not tithed and same thing. I believe in sowing and reaping (not just in finances), but tithing is not like a vending machine. You can't just put in your dollar and press B2 to get what you want.

 

At this point my "tithe" goes to the care and upkeep of my family. That includes time and money. I've read the verses, I discussed this situation with God. He knows my heart.

 

This is as close to our situation as any I've read. We've got generous hearts, my dh and I, and in so doing we took my elderly mother (a widow) into our home to care for her. We also legally adopted our grandchild and are raising her as our own, saving her from a nightmare of a life with a drug addicted bio mother. I have given graphic design at no charge as a ministry to churches we've belonged to, painted large murals on walls as a gift freely given, I've taught Sunday school, led women's groups, etc. We donate to feed those that need help, etc. We are actively involved in our church, and believe that there are seasons of giving generously with finances, and other seasons of giving our time and talents generously. Although I've fought guilty feelings due to the message I heard in churches for a good many years, I have come to the conclusion that if a person cannot tithe money they can still receive God's blessings and even His intervention. He has blessed us with so much over the years that I couldn't even possibly list it all. We live an absolutely frugal lifestyle, but we are so rich!

 

Lucinda

Edited August 11, 2011 by HSMom2One

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I have not read any other replies and probably won't. I used to have that same struggle. Then we stopped tithing. We needed it elsewhere. Then dh lost his job. Then dh was denied unemployment. Then we were with 0 income at all for 6 months. We had 0 savings. We were upset, mad, scared. We went to our pastor in tears and he asked if we trusted God. Well ofcourse we thought we did. He told us to fast and pray and every.single.verse that was revealed to us during that time came back to tithing, stealing from God and such.

 

So we made a promise to ourselves that no matter what, we would tithe. We didn't say anything to our pastor about what we found out. So still no income we started praying hard about a job. God provided little jobs here and there for my husband, nothing that would pay the house payment but enough to put food on the table and other necessities. Then he got a very temporary job that paid a housepayment. We tithed on every ounce of money we got! Then one day I went into the store to get tp and came out and there was an envelope with $300 in it on the drivers seat of my car :w00t: We tithed and paid some bills with it. Still to this day we have no clue where it came from. Then dh got another temp job (with people we know, not actual jobs) and to make a long story short things like that kept happening! One day we came home to a garage FULL of groceries. We were taken care of for 6 months until dh got a full time job. On dec 1 I was coming out of the library and there was $1,000 in an envelope on my truck floor (my truck was LOCKED, so figure that one out!)

 

 

8Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

I would not recommend with holding tithe. Malachi 3:8-10

 

 

That is literally what happened to us. Don't steal from God!!

[Georgiana Daniels]

Not exactly. Tithing is taught by every church that I have ever attended & most denominations. Without it, the church can't administer even the basic functions or keep a roof over their facilities. They can't offer food, finanicial assistance, or other means of help to needy.

 

It is essential and we are supposed to have a joyful heart b/c we TRUST GOD... not because we have joy in giving up our money when groceries are stil needed.

 

If it comes to giving up money... i never would have a cheerful heart. I drive an old van, live in too small of a house, can't afford new underwear, and would like to go on a real vacation.... :glare:.... so, no cheerful heart from within at all in regards to giving up a dollar. It is done in faith, duty, and under commandment or direction. With knowing this and that it is used to bless others.... and support the church... I can feel a bit relieved by it all.

 

While I completely agree that the church needs money to operate, I feel like many churches aren't operating the way the NT churches did with low overhead ;) the NT church went from house to house and so I'm guessing (again, not a theologian here) the money they took in went directly to helping people and spreading the gospel. Not to building funds, mortgages, salaries, etc. That's just my observation.

 

I still wonder why the church at large picks that particular OT law to follow and not the others? Giving is soooo important for believers, but I think 10% is not necessarily the standard for NTers. Really, we should cheerfully give 1%, 5%, 10%....or even be prepared to give it all.

 

That said, I completely get where strict tithers are coming from. I was one for years and years and learned so much.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not exactly. Tithing is taught by every church that I have ever attended & most denominations. Without it, the church can't administer even the basic functions or keep a roof over their facilities. They can't offer food, finanicial assistance, or other means of help to needy.

 

 

Dh is a pastor who does not take a salary. He does receive some money from the church as they are able. They are not able to give us much because the church is small and many are on fixed incomes. We do not teach tithing and we do not pass a plate. People give often sacrificially and cheerfully. God keeps His church operational and functional.

[Runningmom80]

I grew up Lutheran, and we were never taught about tithing. I learned about it in college when I took a few history of Christianity classes.

 

I don't even have a church right now, so I don't tithe. If I did have a church, I would not tithe. I would give what I can, of my money and time, but to put a percentage on it goes against the God I believe in. (I do consider myself a Christian.)

 

 

I do not in any way shape or form believe that God only rewards people who give 10%.

 

 

Just my 2 cents. :)

[ChristineW]

It is true that God loves a cheerful giver, but the prior verse states that "he who soweth sparingly, shall also reap sparingly, and he that soweth liberally, shall also reap liberally." 2 Corinthians 9:6. Galations 5 clearly states that the law is fulfilled in one word "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Paul then immediately demands that the Galatians give liberally. In fact, he tells them "let him that is taught in the word, make him that hath taught him, partaker of all his goods." God's standard is higher than the law of Moses. Clearly, he wants us to feed and clothe our kids, but he also expects us to support the household of faith as well Galatians 6:10.

 

I don't know that 10% is a magic number. For some, it might be too much; for others it might be too little.

[*********]

Not exactly. Tithing is taught by every church that I have ever attended & most denominations. Without it, the church can't administer even the basic functions or keep a roof over their facilities. They can't offer food, finanicial assistance, or other means of help to needy.

 

Tithing is still and OT law, regarless of whether or not most mainstream Christian denominations teach it or not. And fwiw, the church I worship with does not teach it. Not to mention, if churches really functioned like they should, as per the NT model, they would not need money for a 'facility'. They would meet 'house to house'.

 

And the way a NT church body should meet the financial needs of it's body is by the cheerful giving of the other members of the body. Like they did in Acts. Not because of some dutiful keeping of an OT law.

[milovany]

I have not read any other replies and probably won't. I used to have that same struggle. Then we stopped tithing. We needed it elsewhere. Then dh lost his job. Then dh was denied unemployment. Then we were with 0 income at all for 6 months. We had 0 savings. We were upset, mad, scared. We went to our pastor in tears and he asked if we trusted God. Well ofcourse we thought we did. He told us to fast and pray and every.single.verse that was revealed to us during that time came back to tithing, stealing from God and such.

 

So we made a promise to ourselves that no matter what, we would tithe. We didn't say anything to our pastor about what we found out. So still no income we started praying hard about a job. God provided little jobs here and there for my husband, nothing that would pay the house payment but enough to put food on the table and other necessities. Then he got a very temporary job that paid a housepayment. We tithed on every ounce of money we got! Then one day I went into the store to get tp and came out and there was an envelope with $300 in it on the drivers seat of my car :w00t: We tithed and paid some bills with it. Still to this day we have no clue where it came from. Then dh got another temp job (with people we know, not actual jobs) and to make a long story short things like that kept happening! One day we came home to a garage FULL of groceries. We were taken care of for 6 months until dh got a full time job. On dec 1 I was coming out of the library and there was $1,000 in an envelope on my truck floor (my truck was LOCKED, so figure that one out!)

 

 

8Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

I would not recommend with holding tithe. Malachi 3:8-10

 

 

That is literally what happened to us. Don't steal from God!!

 

No disrespect intended -- BUT. This is the type of teaching that almost sent me running from the church for good. If I wasn't convinced of the reality of God, I might have. We lived under this type of teaching for several years. All it did was give us a "we expect more" sense of discontent that we lived with constantly. We paid our tithe and gave generously on top of that -- and we still lived month to month, didn't have much cash, drove old cars, etc. (and I'm not going to have the "You weren't patient enough!" tack thrown this way -- that's the exact thing that left me frustrated and tired; always waiting for that elusive something coming just around the corner).

 

We tithed and tithed and tithed and sometimes there were good times, and sometimes there were lean times. Then we gave up tithing and just lived as cheerful givers, giving generously in the ways we could (whether that was finances, time, food, a listening ear, the loan of a car, etc.). Without thinking about tithing (sometimes giving more, sometimes less I'm sure), we have been on the receiving end of things such as what you describe above when we've been in difficult circumstances. So receiving these kinds of blessings can't be solely attributed to tithing. They're attributable to generous people who did something nice for us. And if these envelopes of cash didn't show up or if we didn't get a raise or if our car died? We still know God is good and is taking care of us.

 

So in our experience, the options have been:

1) Count out the 10% and be sure to give it no matter what and still live somewhat month to month, although appreciating not being homeless and carless; always be looking for more, more, more and feeling like you're missing out on the fullness of God because you're still struggling, and "When will that breakthrough come?!"

OR

2) Live a generous lifestyle with a cheerful heart, and trust God that whatever comes your way is from His hand and for your salvation. Sometimes that means loss of job and cars and vacations, etc.; sometimes that means being able to buy your dream property, drive a decent car, take a vacation, etc. But no matter what comes your way, you're content.

 

We realized, in the end, that under "word of faith" teaching, God is manipulatable (not that YOU'RE saying this, but it's the general understanding this this "word of faith" teaching). You have to do certain things to move the hand of God. And if you don't do enough, you don't enjoy His full blessing. I'm so glad to be free.

Edited August 11, 2011 by milovaný

[Carol in Cal.]

No disrespect intended -- BUT. This is the type of teaching that almost sent me running from the church for good. If I wasn't convinced of the reality of God, I might have.

 

....

 

We realized, in the end, that under "word of faith" teaching, God is manipulatable (not that YOU'RE saying this, but it's the general understanding this this "word of faith" teaching). You have to do certain things to move the hand of God. And if you don't do enough, you don't enjoy His full blessing. I'm so glad to be free.

 

So glad you posted this! I totally agree, especially about the manipulation.

 

One thing I have noticed with the 'storehouse' passage is that there is another one for another circumstance that is NEVER read in a stewardship context but has just as much potential for application. It is the one where Moses calls for donations to build the new tabernacle in the desert, and people bring so much that he tells them to stop, that there is plenty! God's leading is situational and personal.

 

I believe in proportionate giving--'give as God has prospered you'--but not necessarily in a strict 10%. I think that the proportion can and should increase as you income increases, and I also think that BOTH regular, planned, weekly giving and 'over and above' giving are modelled in Scripture, and that both should occur as a RESPONSE in thankfulness to God's goodness in loving us, and a response to our neighbors in need, not to get something.

[justamouse]

No disrespect intended -- BUT. This is the type of teaching that almost sent me running from the church for good. If I wasn't convinced of the reality of God, I might have. We lived under this type of teaching for several years. All it did was give us a "we expect more" sense of discontent that we lived with constantly. We paid our tithe and gave generously on top of that -- and we still lived month to month, didn't have much cash, drove old cars, etc. (and I'm not going to have the "You weren't patient enough!" tack thrown this way -- that's the exact thing that left me frustrated and tired; always waiting for that elusive something coming just around the corner).

 

We tithed and tithed and tithed and sometimes there were good times, and sometimes there were lean times. Then we gave up tithing and just lived as cheerful givers, giving generously in the ways we could (whether that was finances, time, food, a listening ear, the loan of a car, etc.). Without thinking about tithing (sometimes giving more, sometimes less I'm sure), we have been on the receiving end of things such as what you describe above when we've been in difficult circumstances. So receiving these kinds of blessings can't be solely attributed to tithing. They're attributable to generous people who did something nice for us. And if these envelopes of cash didn't show up or if we didn't get a raise or if our car died? We still know God is good and is taking care of us.

 

So in our experience, the options have been:

1) Count out the 10% and be sure to give it no matter what and still live somewhat month to month, although appreciating not being homeless and carless; always be looking for more, more, more and feeling like you're missing out on the fullness of God because you're still struggling, and "When will that breakthrough come?!"

OR

2) Live a generous lifestyle with a cheerful heart, and trust God that whatever comes your way is from His hand and for your salvation. Sometimes that means loss of job and cars and vacations, etc.; sometimes that means being able to buy your dream property, drive a decent car, take a vacation, etc. But no matter what comes your way, you're content.

 

We realized, in the end, that under "word of faith" teaching, God is manipulatable (not that YOU'RE saying this, but it's the general understanding this this "word of faith" teaching). You have to do certain things to move the hand of God. And if you don't do enough, you don't enjoy His full blessing. I'm so glad to be free.

 

I so, wholeheartedly agree.

[justamouse]

Tithing is still and OT law, regarless of whether or not most mainstream Christian denominations teach it or not. And fwiw, the church I worship with does not teach it. Not to mention, if churches really functioned like they should, as per the NT model, they would not need money for a 'facility'. They would meet 'house to house'.

 

And the way a NT church body should meet the financial needs of it's body is by the cheerful giving of the other members of the body. Like they did in Acts. Not because of some dutiful keeping of an OT law.

 

The first Christians did not meet in houses. They met in the synagogue. And then, when they got kicked out, they built their own churches. With artwork and baptismal. Justin Martyr's letter to Marcus Aurelius details their worship service and it was highly liturgical.

 

Although the site may date to a full century before the Roman emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan transforming Christianity from a disparate group of Jesus-worshipping cults to a powerful state religion in A.D. 313, these early followers of the controversial faith weren't hiding their beliefs. "There were Samaritans and Jews and Romans and Christians all living together in just this small place," says Tepper. A Roman soldier paid for the mosaics, and members of the congregation may even have baked bread for Rome's sixth legion, stationed nearby.

 

 

 

The find at Megiddo is a key piece of evidence in a radical rethinking of how Christianity evolved during its first three centuries, before it was backed by the might of empire. Until recently, scholars had to rely on ancient texts that emphasize the vicious persecution of the church--think lions dining on martyrs in Rome's Colosseum. A growing body of archaeological data, however, paints a more diverse and surprising picture in which Christians thrived alongside Jews and the Roman military. These finds make this "a definitive time in our field" since they appear to contradict the literary sources on which historians have long depended, says Eric Meyers, a biblical archaeologist at Duke University.

 

Edited August 11, 2011 by justamouse

[alpidarkomama]

Tithing is an OLD Testament law. As a Christian, under the new covenant of grace, I am not bound by it.

 

The New Testament instructs us to give cheerfully.

 

Why do some choose to follow and teach this one particular OT law?

 

Because we're Jewish?? :lol: Plus the other 612 commandments from G-d. :)

[Runningmom80]

Because we're Jewish?? :lol: Plus the other 612 commandments from G-d. :)

 

 

 

Touché. ;)

[gardenmom5]

We've always given around 10% of our take-home pay to the Church. As we're stuggling to pay off our debts and find money for a down-payment an a better house (you can search my name to get a better understanding of our situation), I look at that 10% and think about how nice it would be to include it in our budget. But I'm still paying $180/month for kids activities that are certainly not neccessities. I don't feel like I can cut back on the tithe unless I cut back all extra activities, KWIM? Anyone else mentally stuggle with giving money to the Church?

 

I don't consider a tithe my money, but the Lord's. I tithe because I trust Him. it isn't about the money, but about faith. We've had a few months where our 10% of our gross was literally in CENTS, but we paid it without hesitation.

[MamaSheep]

Because we're Jewish?? :lol: Plus the other 612 commandments from G-d. :)

:lol:

 

Whereas, on the other hand, we are LDS and believe it was specifically re-established by God as binding on the church in 1838.

[raceNzanesmom]

Since He gives us the 100% I don't mind giving back the 10. I've also found I can do more with the 90.

 

Not that I don't have other things to do with that 10%, but it isn't mine to spend.

 

We give the tithe to our church almost always. For one thing, it really needs it. We did a major re-build a few year ago and the giving is lean, so I know the $ are truly needed for bills. We have, however, on occasion given outside the church when there was a genuine need and we didn't have the extra to give.

 

ETA: Re: OT law, if they could give under the law, I should certainly be able to give under grace.

Edited August 11, 2011 by raceNzanesmom

[HSMom2One]

I have not read any other replies and probably won't. I used to have that same struggle. Then we stopped tithing. We needed it elsewhere. Then dh lost his job. Then dh was denied unemployment. Then we were with 0 income at all for 6 months. We had 0 savings. We were upset, mad, scared. We went to our pastor in tears and he asked if we trusted God. Well ofcourse we thought we did. He told us to fast and pray and every.single.verse that was revealed to us during that time came back to tithing, stealing from God and such.

 

So we made a promise to ourselves that no matter what, we would tithe. We didn't say anything to our pastor about what we found out. So still no income we started praying hard about a job. God provided little jobs here and there for my husband, nothing that would pay the house payment but enough to put food on the table and other necessities. Then he got a very temporary job that paid a housepayment. We tithed on every ounce of money we got! Then one day I went into the store to get tp and came out and there was an envelope with $300 in it on the drivers seat of my car :w00t: We tithed and paid some bills with it. Still to this day we have no clue where it came from. Then dh got another temp job (with people we know, not actual jobs) and to make a long story short things like that kept happening! One day we came home to a garage FULL of groceries. We were taken care of for 6 months until dh got a full time job. On dec 1 I was coming out of the library and there was $1,000 in an envelope on my truck floor (my truck was LOCKED, so figure that one out!)

 

 

8Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

I would not recommend with holding tithe. Malachi 3:8-10

 

 

That is literally what happened to us. Don't steal from God!!

 

Others have commented on your post, but I really need to say something too. I am inclined to believe that God looks deep within us, and when He blesses us it is based on the attitude of our hearts rather than on our works. I understand that God provided for you when you placed your complete trust in Him, and He saw your genuine desire to follow His will.

 

From my own experience I could share a very long list of times that God miraculously, miraculously provided for my family as well -- and yet not each and every instance occurred during a time that we (or I as a single parent) were giving 10% of our income to the church.

 

Over the years, beginning back when I was a single mom that had been abandoned by a husband, God has blessed me over and over. I have been the recipient of cash provided in amazing ways that I know were absolutely without a doubt directly from His hand. The Lord has also provided payment for bills when we were completely living on faith and had nothing, and at one time He even provided the gift of a very nice car. I could go on and on, and each and every time it was just as endearing as what you described in your post. I can only say that my faith has always been in the Lord, and He has always taken care of me and my family, and it is because we love Him, seek after Him and trust Him - not because we were afraid of being punished for not following the law to the letter. God is, after all, a God of grace and love.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[birchbark]

I know this is an old thread, and I didn't read it all, but I wanted to comment on it. I would suggest doing a study on New Testament giving. You will find it different than the commands to tithe given to the Jews in the OT. II Cor 9:7 is a good verse to look at.

[MamaSheep]

You know, several people have brought up the idea that a tithe is an OT idea and that NT giving is handled differently. Since I'm one of those people that thinks a tithe is still appropriate under the new covenant I'd like to share a few thoughts--again with the understanding that I do realize other people feel differently about it.

 

For the sake of this discussion I'd like us to look at Galatians 3 for a moment:

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

A schoolmaster is an adult who sits with a child and instructs him and observes and measures his progress and provides assistance while the child learns. The whole idea behind having a schoolmaster is that the child should learn to perform the skills independently as a matter of course, as a part of their daily life, without being assigned or reminded and without someone watching over their shoulder to make sure they do it right. I agree that the standard for giving under the NT is to give freely, cheerfully, and generously. But I think the OT law of tithing is the "schoolmaster" for that NT standard. A 10% tithe is to cheerful generosity what a child's penmanship exercise is to a college research paper, or what warm-up scales are to playing a concerto. It's not the end-point, it's a training exercise. I think paying a tithe is the minimum God asks us to give in order to show us how it's done, give us experience with the results of giving, and train us to think of material income in the way we should.

 

I think that this idea of the law as a minimum requirement to train spiritual children by giving them explicit guidelines until they are spiritually mature enough to become independent and self-motivated is supported by Jesus's commentary on various aspects of the law. If you look at Matthew 5, for example, you'll see that Jesus says that he came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it (v17-18). Then he lists several points of law and discusses the difference between the law of Moses, and the law of Christ.

 

Under the law of Moses (the schoolmaster), we are told not to kill. Under the law of Christ (independent maturity) we are not only not to kill people, but we're supposed to take it one step further and not allow ourselves to be angry or mocking toward others. And not only are we supposed to refrain from those kinds of actions, but we are to actively seek peace with those who we might have a problem with (v. 21-24). Not murdering people who irritate us is the minimum requirement for those who are learning to love others as themselves, it's not the maximum goal for mature believers to strive for.

 

Again, Jesus points out that under the law of Moses we are instructed not to commit adultery. And again this is the minimum requirement for the immature. Under Christ, the requirement is not just to keep your body in check, but to be in control of your mind as well. The requirement for followers of Christ is not less than the requirement under the law of Moses, it's more.

 

Jesus continues by telling us that under the law of Moses we are told that if we make an oath we MUST do what we promised. Under Christ, your word IS a promise--you should always do what you say you will, and nobody should ever feel they need a formal oath or contract to make you follow through. It should be a matter of personal integrity. Again, the requirement under Christ is greater than under the law of Moses.

 

And then there's "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". That's the schoolmaster. The mature approach, though, is turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, give more than you're asked for.

 

In every case Jesus asks more from us than was required under the law of Moses. And as I say, I think tithing is the minimum, the schoolmaster to lead us to a higher level of giving. But that doesn't mean we don't tithe anymore, it means not only do we tithe, we tithe and then we give more--cheerfully and generously, as has been pointed out. Just like not only do we not kill people, or commit adultery or exact revenge, we love our neighbor as ourselves.

 

So that's one reason I think tithing is still valid. Yes we should give cheerfully and generously, that IS the standard under the new covenant. But the old schoolmaster's exercise gives us a useful yardstick to measure by.