Moving out of states

[Murphy101]

Faith wrote:

 

dh can find a good fit in another country with a lower cost of living, health benefits, and more income, then we will definitely consider leaving the U.S.A. indefinitely

 

Well heck yeah! Sign us up for that too! It also as to be home school friendly though.

 

What country do my fellow boardies think would have such opportunities?

[Impish]

Generally speaking, I think we have that in Canada, depending on where as to hsing friendly and cost of living.

[Audrey]

Generally speaking, I think we have that in Canada, depending on where as to hsing friendly and cost of living.

 

 

:iagree: COL varies widely depending on area. In my very rural area, a very, very nice, large house can be bought in town for around the $80K - $100k range. If you don't mind something built in the 40's and 50's and needing a bit of refurb, then you could get it for far less than that.

 

However, if you wanted to buy farmland here, it would easily set you back $4k/acre, more if it's all Class A.

 

In a small city in the southern part of the province, average home price is around $200K. But, that is where most of the jobs are, and it's a booming place, so you are paying for the proximity to that.

 

In the largest city, average home price is $250K, but it also happens to have the honour of being the most violent city in Canada. I remember when I first moved here and heard a news story about it being the murder capital of Canada (again) and that at that point in the year, there had been 35 murders in the City for the year so far. It was July. 35 murders in about 7 months. This is what Canadians call the murder capital. 35 murders is what they call a slow week in Miami. I was stunned.

 

But, I digress --- there are some VERY expensive areas in Canada. The Vancouver area, the Greater Toronto area, the Montreal area, Calgary -- these are probably the most expensive places to live IF you can find a place to live. Calgary and Vancouver, especially, are very short on space.

 

Also, someone else kept mentioning about wanting to go to Quebec. It is a lovely place to visit, but if you want to live there, you had better speak really, really, really good French. They have their own immigration protocol, and I am led to understand that if you do not have good command of French, you stand little to no chance of getting in there. I took Parisian French in school, and now speak a sort of French (the local patois) and that would not be good enough for there, I'm sure. Even my dh, whose first language is French, finds it difficult to keep up with Quebecers. They talk so fast!

 

So, you really should do your homework first. Americans think that Canada is just like the States. I even thought that. IT IS NOT LIKE THE STATES. I cannot over emphasize that. There is a fundamental difference in the ethos of Canadians that makes them very much NOT like Americans. I didn't truly "get" that until I'd lived here quite a while. Until I did "get it," I didn't understand how Canadians could spot me as American so easily. Thankfully, now no one ever guesses that I used to be American.

[mommaduck]

:iagree: COL varies widely depending on area. In my very rural area, a very, very nice, large house can be bought in town for around the $80K - $100k range. If you don't mind something built in the 40's and 50's and needing a bit of refurb, then you could get it for far less than that.

 

However, if you wanted to buy farmland here, it would easily set you back $4k/acre, more if it's all Class A.

 

In a small city in the southern part of the province, average home price is around $200K. But, that is where most of the jobs are, and it's a booming place, so you are paying for the proximity to that.

 

In the largest city, average home price is $250K, but it also happens to have the honour of being the most violent city in Canada. I remember when I first moved here and heard a news story about it being the murder capital of Canada (again) and that at that point in the year, there had been 35 murders in the City for the year so far. It was July. 35 murders in about 7 months. This is what Canadians call the murder capital. 35 murders is what they call a slow week in Miami. I was stunned.

 

But, I digress --- there are some VERY expensive areas in Canada. The Vancouver area, the Greater Toronto area, the Montreal area, Calgary -- these are probably the most expensive places to live IF you can find a place to live. Calgary and Vancouver, especially, are very short on space.

 

Also, someone else kept mentioning about wanting to go to Quebec. It is a lovely place to visit, but if you want to live there, you had better speak really, really, really good French. They have their own immigration protocol, and I am led to understand that if you do not have good command of French, you stand little to no chance of getting in there. I took Parisian French in school, and now speak a sort of French (the local patois) and that would not be good enough for there, I'm sure. Even my dh, whose first language is French, finds it difficult to keep up with Quebecers. They talk so fast!

 

So, you really should do your homework first. Americans think that Canada is just like the States. I even thought that. IT IS NOT LIKE THE STATES. I cannot over emphasize that. There is a fundamental difference in the ethos of Canadians that makes them very much NOT like Americans. I didn't truly "get" that until I'd lived here quite a while. Until I did "get it," I didn't understand how Canadians could spot me as American so easily. Thankfully, now no one ever guesses that I used to be American.

 

We need two things a dairy and an Orthodox Church.

[Aelwydd]

:iagree: COL varies widely depending on area. In my very rural area, a very, very nice, large house can be bought in town for around the $80K - $100k range. If you don't mind something built in the 40's and 50's and needing a bit of refurb, then you could get it for far less than that.

 

However, if you wanted to buy farmland here, it would easily set you back $4k/acre, more if it's all Class A.

 

In a small city in the southern part of the province, average home price is around $200K. But, that is where most of the jobs are, and it's a booming place, so you are paying for the proximity to that.

 

In the largest city, average home price is $250K, but it also happens to have the honour of being the most violent city in Canada. I remember when I first moved here and heard a news story about it being the murder capital of Canada (again) and that at that point in the year, there had been 35 murders in the City for the year so far. It was July. 35 murders in about 7 months. This is what Canadians call the murder capital. 35 murders is what they call a slow week in Miami. I was stunned.

 

But, I digress --- there are some VERY expensive areas in Canada. The Vancouver area, the Greater Toronto area, the Montreal area, Calgary -- these are probably the most expensive places to live IF you can find a place to live. Calgary and Vancouver, especially, are very short on space.

 

Also, someone else kept mentioning about wanting to go to Quebec. It is a lovely place to visit, but if you want to live there, you had better speak really, really, really good French. They have their own immigration protocol, and I am led to understand that if you do not have good command of French, you stand little to no chance of getting in there. I took Parisian French in school, and now speak a sort of French (the local patois) and that would not be good enough for there, I'm sure. Even my dh, whose first language is French, finds it difficult to keep up with Quebecers. They talk so fast!

 

So, you really should do your homework first. Americans think that Canada is just like the States. I even thought that. IT IS NOT LIKE THE STATES. I cannot over emphasize that. There is a fundamental difference in the ethos of Canadians that makes them very much NOT like Americans. I didn't truly "get" that until I'd lived here quite a while. Until I did "get it," I didn't understand how Canadians could spot me as American so easily. Thankfully, now no one ever guesses that I used to be American.

 

Thank you, Audrey, so much for this info! Dh and I might be the ones you're thinking of who'd like to move to Quebec.

 

We've found the same thing in our research about knowing French in Quebec. For that reason, we recently began investigating other provinces in more depth, but right now, New Brunswick, especially the Moncton area, has us interested. Mostly, because the local economy there is kickin', it's bilingual, it's close to the ocean, and the COL is much lower than in big cities.

[stripe]

Also, someone else kept mentioning about wanting to go to Quebec. It is a lovely place to visit, but if you want to live there, you had better speak really, really, really good French. They have their own immigration protocol, and I am led to understand that if you do not have good command of French, you stand little to no chance of getting in there.

 

 

But wouldn't one eventually be allowed / not stopped from moving there? I imagine someone could become a citizen first, living in, say, Edmonton for a while, and then move.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

right now, New Brunswick, especially the Moncton area, has us interested. Mostly, because the local economy there is kickin', it's bilingual, it's close to the ocean, and the COL is much lower than in big cities.

It's even attracting to us! However we can't move. DH is tied to his job because of the retirement plan. Once he retires, we're moving!

 

But wouldn't one eventually be allowed / not stopped from moving there? I imagine someone could become a citizen first, living in, say, Edmonton for a while, and then move.

Yup, there's a loophole there, but the Quebec government will go after your kids, forcing them to French daycare, and French schools, thus ensuring bilingualism

[Aelwydd]

But wouldn't one eventually be allowed / not stopped from moving there? I imagine someone could become a citizen first, living in, say, Edmonton for a while, and then move.

 

That's true; I think she is mainly addressing those people who are not Canadian and want to move directly to Quebec. Quebec has its own points system, and a good chunk of their analysis is based directly on how much time you've spent there before (on visits, vacations, etc.) and how well you speak and understand French.

[FaithManor]

Yes, I am sad to report that my puny French minor from an American LAC is not going to put me in the running for Quebec either. But, that would not be a good fit for us anyway, WHEW! New Brunswick sounds intriguing though in our job search, we haven't been finding much need in Canada for Oracle DBA's.

 

I can't say for certain what I think would be a good fit because, again, we are in the discovery stages. We aren't looking at making a rash decision. I would say that if a country is identified, dh and I are looking at one - two years before actually going unless something truly amazing that we just couldn't say NO to came along. I don't expect that. I expect this to be a long, gut-wrenching decision that may end with us staying because nothing worked out well enough to be worth uprooting the family or going and leaving behind distraught relatives who will need a couple of years after the move to figure out that tis was a good thing.

 

On some levels, contemplating this option is exciting. Yet, on other levels, it's emotionally grueling. Stay or go, we need as much "fact-finding" as we can possibly get.

 

Now Audrey, the murder capitol of Canada wouldn't happen to be Windsor would it??? I ask because dh has a customer whose representative lives north of Windsor and drives to Troy, MI. everyday through the tunnel (which gives me the absolute willies by the way because I HATE TUNNELS UNDER WATER). He'd like to try to find a consulting position for dh within his employer's company and have us move into his neighborhood. I am not certain we would gain much by this. This would make my family profoundly happy because visiting would be fairly easy.

 

Faith

[Aelwydd]

It's even attracting to us! However we can't move. DH is tied to his job because of the retirement plan. Once he retires, we're moving![/Quote]

 

Really? That makes me feel good about our focus on NB. We have some friends who live south of Fredericton, in Harvey. They moved from Hamilton, because it was so expensive in that area; she was the one that clued me in on NB.

 

Any idea what area you guys want to be in when you head to NB?

 

 

Yup, there's a loophole there, but the Quebec government will go after your kids, forcing them to French daycare, and French schools, thus ensuring bilingualism

 

Yes, this bothered me, too. Jackson (our ds) would be made to go to French school, as a French-as-second-language student. It's not that I have issues with him being in French school at all. It's that I thought it would make it much more difficult for him to integrate into his new community, when he's facing not only a move away from friends and family here, but also facing a totally new culture, with kids all speaking a different language that he's not fluent in yet.

 

Like Audrey said, I don't think of Canada as a suburb of the US. It has many similarities, yes, but I do agree with her that the culture has many differences. I don't think it's helpful to our ds to gloss over those and pretend that the only new culture he'd be facing is the French one. So, that's why we are thinking that NB gives ds the opportunity to be bilingual, but not in such a "sink or swim" dire kind of way. He can do it in an English school, and at least have the commonality of the same primary language to build new friendships, KWIM?

[Impish]

Edmonton is the murder capital.

[stripe]

Yup, there's a loophole there, but the Quebec government will go after your kids, forcing them to French daycare, and French schools, thus ensuring bilingualism

 

For the record, the proposed scenario doesn't apply to my or my kids. It was a theoretical question.

 

I am curious, what other countries have people seriously considered?

[Murphy101]

For the record, the proposed scenario doesn't apply to my or my kids. It was a theoretical question.

 

I am curious, what other countries have people seriously considered?

 

Me too.:lurk5:

[cathmom]

We'd love to go to Canada or Northern Europe.

[Murphy101]

*shudder*

 

I'd love to go there

 

And come right back a few weeks later.

 

I REALLY dislike long winters.;)

[cathmom]

*shudder*

 

I'd love to go there

 

And come right back a few weeks later.

 

I REALLY dislike long winters.;)

 

I really dislike long summers LOL! :tongue_smilie:

[Murphy101]

I really dislike long summers LOL! :tongue_smilie:

 

Perfect! We can trade homes 6 months out of the year!:D

[cathmom]

Perfect! We can trade homes 6 months out of the year!:D

 

You'd get sick of upper 90s really quick LOL!

[Murphy101]

You'd get sick of upper 90s really quick LOL!

 

That'd be a relief at this point. We have had 10 days straight of over 100'. It's 104' right now during the dinner hour.

[cathmom]

That'd be a relief at this point. We have had 10 days straight of over 100'. It's 104' right now during the dinner hour.

 

Well, yes. It's 100 here also. Although thankfully we have not had as many 100 days as you.

 

I only said upper 90s because it's not normally 100 here.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Jackson (our ds) would be made to go to French school, as a French-as-second-language student. It's not that I have issues with him being in French school at all. It's that I thought it would make it much more difficult for him to integrate into his new community, when he's facing not only a move away from friends and family here, but also facing a totally new culture, with kids all speaking a different language that he's not fluent in yet.

 

Plenty, plenty of kids do it this way, and do quite well indeed. There are some 'classes d'accueil' that the child attends to catch up with French first, and then they transfer to a regular class. So it's sink or swim, but they give you some floating devices. Especially in Montreal and area, many kids attend French school that do not have French as their mother tongue. In some area, it's up to 80% of the kids.

[LaxMom]

Edmonton is the murder capital.

 

Um, thus far Baltimore has had 117 murders. DC had 306 last year (not sure what the current tally is).

 

Edmonton, 28.

 

Baltimore and Edmonton are approximately the same size (Edmonton actually appears to have more people).

 

I know it's not nice to laugh at other people's murder rates, as if they "can't hang" but it does shine light on one of the huge cultural differences.

[Impish]

Um, thus far Baltimore has had 117 murders. DC had 306 last year (not sure what the current tally is).

 

Edmonton, 28.

 

Baltimore and Edmonton are approximately the same size (Edmonton actually appears to have more people).

 

I know it's not nice to laugh at other people's murder rates, as if they "can't hang" but it does shine light on one of the huge cultural differences.

Its the murder capital of Canada.

[Embassy]

But, I digress --- there are some VERY expensive areas in Canada. The Vancouver area, the Greater Toronto area, the Montreal area, Calgary -- these are probably the most expensive places to live IF you can find a place to live. Calgary and Vancouver, especially, are very short on space.

 

 

 

I'm in one of the very expensive places in Canada. It is more expensive to live here than anywhere I lived in the USA and I've lived in 12 states! But dh's salary is higher than it would be in the States (for the same work) and insurance coverage (government and private from work) as well as the baby bonus makes it a better move for us economically.

[YLVD]

Faith wrote:

 

 

 

Well heck yeah! Sign us up for that too! It also as to be home school friendly though.

 

What country do my fellow boardies think would have such opportunities?

 

I would love to move to Canada, particularly Vancouver! I only live about 2.5 hours away from there now! I love it.

 

I've been considering leaving the US and my top choices are Thailand (DD has family there and is party Thai), Costa Rica or Belize. Costa Rica and Thailand both have excellent medical care, as well as affordable.

 

I work from home so this would work for me. Now I just need to get my SO a mobile job! lol

[chiguirre]

We'd like to move back to Caracas, even though it is the Murder Capital of the World, it's home. We'll see how things go in 2012...

[LibraryLover]

Here is the US murder rate:

 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state

[LibraryLover]

This is an interesting graph:

 

Homicide

The US homicide rate, which has declined substantially since 1991, is still among the highest in the industrialized world. There were 17,034 murders in the United States in 2006[29] (666,160 murders from 1960 to 1996).[30] In 2004, there were 5.5 homicides for every 100,000 persons, roughly three times as high as Canada (1.9) and six times as high as Germany (0.9). A closer look at The National Archive of Criminal Justice Data indicates that per-capita homicide rates over the last 30 years on average of major cities, New Orleans' average per capita homicide rate of 52 murders per 100,000 people overall (1980–2009) ranks highest among major U.S. cities[31][32] Most industrialized countries had homicide rates below the 2.5 mark.[33][34]

CountryIreland[35]Germany[36]Netherlands[35]Norway[35]United Kingdom[35]France[35]Canada[31]Scotland[37]United States[38]Russia[35]Venezuela[35]Jamaica[35]Colombia[35]Homicide rate (per hundred thousand)0.90.91.01.21.41.61.91.595.420.1549.232.4133.9Year2000200720072000200020042004200120082000200020092009

In the United States, the number of homicides where the victim and offender relationship was undetermined has been increasing since 1999 but has not reached the levels experienced in the early 1990s. In 14% of all murders, the victim and the offender were strangers. Spouses and family members made up about 15% of all victims, about one-third of the victims were acquaintances of the assailant, and the victim and offender relationship was undetermined in over one-third of homicides. Gun involvement in homicides were gang related homicides which increased after 1980, homicides that occurred during the commission of a felony which increased from 55% in 1985 to 77% in 2005, homicides resulting from arguments which declined to the lowest levels recorded recently, and homicides resulting from other circumstances which remained relatively constant. Because gang killing has become a normal part of inner cities, many including police, hold preconceptions about the causes of death in inner cities. When a death is labeled gang related it lowers the chances that it will be investigated and increases the chances that the perpetrator will remain at large. In addition, victims of gang killings often determine the priority a case will be given by police. Jenkins (1988) argues that many serial murder cases remain unknown to police and that cases involving Black offenders and victims are especially likely to escape official attention.[39]

[LibraryLover]

Um, thus far Baltimore has had 117 murders. DC had 306 last year (not sure what the current tally is).

 

Edmonton, 28.

 

Baltimore and Edmonton are approximately the same size (Edmonton actually appears to have more people).

 

I know it's not nice to laugh at other people's murder rates, as if they "can't hang" but it does shine light on one of the huge cultural differences.

 

 

Where there are guns, guns tend to be used. (Not that I will count Switzerland in this mess. They seem to know how to use their guns: Target Practice! )

 

Of course, they also do not suffer immigrants gladly. Simply meaning, if you wanna go there, get your ducks in order and offer them something! :)

Edited July 23, 2011 by LibraryLover

[swellmomma]

Edmonton is the murder capital.

 

no no, it is the Alberta Capital ;)

 

I don't know how Edmonton murder rates compare with Vancouver and Toronto. BUt I do know that they are plenty bad enough and it was a big reason to leave the city to this tiny town. While I miss have access to many of the opportunities we had there I am glad that now I don't have a drug dealer for a neighbor, a gang on the corner recruiting my kid, a stalker down the street, psycho in the apt's smashing my windows out, the grow up around the block and the police weapons raid 4 doors down. But that is a whole other topic.

 

COL wise, I agree that it depends on where you live. My brother and sil moved out to Vancouver about 6 months ago for his work. Their COL is crazy high compared to what it was in Edmonton and even more so compared to mine in a rural area. My house in this tiny town was $85K, to buy this identical house in the crappiest part of Edmonton would be more than double that.

 

The Maritimes are beautiful, and I have wanted to move out there. Before buying this house my plan had been to move to PEI. The biggest issue out that way is employment. Most people are not making great $$ in the maritimes, and while COL is lower it has caused many of them to move to Alberta to work in the oil sands. If I knew I could have stable work out in the maritimes I would move there hands down. I would actually prefer BC over the maritimes but COL is so much higher than even Alberta there is pretty much no chance of that ever happening.

Edited July 23, 2011 by swellmomma

[Impish]

Nope, its murder capital of Canada.

 

More than TO or Van.

[cathmom]

When I was studying in Germany, I met a British woman who was terrified to come to the US because she thought everyone here had guns!

[deacongirl]

Canada, Vietnam, Chile...

[Impish]

When I was studying in Germany, I met a British woman who was terrified to come to the US because she thought everyone here had guns!

Compared to England, everyone does! :lol:

[LibraryLover]

Ooooo, Venezuela has one of the highest murder rates in the entire world. They beat Russia, which is saying something!

[justamouse]

We were looking into Canada.

 

It would be easy enough for me to get my Brazilian citizenship back, but I have absolutely NO desire to make that happen. Visit, yes.

[justamouse]

There is a fundamental difference in the ethos of Canadians that makes them very much NOT like Americans. I didn't truly "get" that until I'd lived here quite a while. Until I did "get it," I didn't understand how Canadians could spot me as American so easily. Thankfully, now no one ever guesses that I used to be American.

 

Could you go into that?

[Xuzi]

My DH is Canadian (Ontario-born), and longs to return there. He would LOVE to move to Ottawa, and I probably wouldn't mind either. I know there'll be snow to deal with, but at least you get sun breaks where you can go out and PLAY in it. Rain, rain, and more rain isn't very fun to play in. :glare:

[Murphy101]

My husband wants to cart me away to Costa Rica. He has been there on business and loved it there. Perfect weather. Nice people. Guns and home schooling both legal.:D

[Audrey]

Edmonton is the murder capital.

 

 

Oh dear! I just googled and YOU are right! Well... howdy-do! You stole the title this year. :D

 

FWIW, I was referring to Winnipeg, which, according to this, is listed as the "most violent" city in Canada.

 

I stand duly corrected.

[Audrey]

Could you go into that?

 

 

Oh mouse.... I could, but I think we both know it would just get the thread locked or deleted. :001_smile:

[Dirtroad]

My husband wants to cart me away to Costa Rica. He has been there on business and loved it there. Perfect weather. Nice people. Guns and home schooling both legal.:D

 

 

I have heard the same on Uruguay.... but haven't researched it.

[Deb in NZ]

New Zealand's nice for the lifestyle, but jobs in many areas are hard to come by & the cost of basic necessities (food, gas, power, phone, etc.) is much higher than what you are used to in the States. Healthcare costs are MUCH lower & the quality is equalivant IMHO to what you recieve in the States. Homeschooling is legal & the gov't gives HSers a small supervisory allowance. PS varies in quality from area to area, even with NZ having a national curriculum. The climate is comfortable & you'd have no language difficulties (if you worked in gov't you may be asked to learn Maori, but other than that English is what is spoken.)

 

If you are happy with a simple, family centered life style---look at NZ.

If you want something similar to the States---look at Australia.

 

Blessings,

[MelAR05]

I am loving this thread!!

[LittleIzumi]

Is there any way to be close enough to Toronto to work there without the huge cost of the GTA? Or do we need to look elsewhere? Dh plans to teach at a university and have a small private practice (getting his PhD in Clinical Psychology). We have family in Ontario but the universities seem to be mostly in Toronto. (I know there are a few scattered in other southern Ontario cities, though.)

[Mom in High Heels]

Oh mouse.... I could, but I think we both know it would just get the thread locked or deleted. :001_smile:

 

This made me LOL. Living in Europe, I'm pretty sure I know what you mean though.

[Embassy]

So, you really should do your homework first. Americans think that Canada is just like the States. I even thought that. IT IS NOT LIKE THE STATES. I cannot over emphasize that. There is a fundamental difference in the ethos of Canadians that makes them very much NOT like Americans. I didn't truly "get" that until I'd lived here quite a while. Until I did "get it," I didn't understand how Canadians could spot me as American so easily. Thankfully, now no one ever guesses that I used to be American.

 

I still have an American accent so I can be picked out that way, but I've been told I act Asian:tongue_smilie: But I get what you are saying. I lived in Europe for about a year when I was 20. I must have acted different then too because I was told that I didn't act like an American. It didn't take me long to figure out what they were talking about:tongue_smilie:

[Once Again]

I still have an American accent so I can be picked out that way, but I've been told I act Asian:tongue_smilie: But I get what you are saying. I lived in Europe for about a year when I was 20. I must have acted different then too because I was told that I didn't act like an American. It didn't take me long to figure out what they were talking about:tongue_smilie:

 

 

So what was it? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Impish]

Oh dear! I just googled and YOU are right! Well... howdy-do! You stole the title this year. :D

 

FWIW, I was referring to Winnipeg, which, according to this, is listed as the "most violent" city in Canada.

 

I stand duly corrected.

Wolf just about had puppies when it came out in the paper. We've been wanting out of Edmonton for a long time, and that just capped it.

Is there any way to be close enough to Toronto to work there without the huge cost of the GTA? Or do we need to look elsewhere? Dh plans to teach at a university and have a small private practice (getting his PhD in Clinical Psychology). We have family in Ontario but the universities seem to be mostly in Toronto. (I know there are a few scattered in other southern Ontario cities, though.)

No, anywhere around TO is viciously expensive. There are lots of Universities all over...Laurier in Waterloo for example is a good school, and decent living cost, esp compared to TO. Guelph is good too. Lots of bedroom communities w/in a 20 min drive of either city where cost of rent/mortgage goes down considerably.

[unsinkable]

Oh mouse.... I could, but I think we both know it would just get the thread locked or deleted. :001_smile:

 

Why? ;)

 

I mean, really? :D

 

Why be coy? :confused: