mommyoftwinboys Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 To make a very long story short. My brother-in-law(41yrs old) is a single dad. He has absolutely no credit-no credit cards, no car loans, doesn't own a home..nothing...it sounds great but unfortunately every time a situation comes up and he needs money he calls us. Two years ago he lost his job and needed money for rent. We gave him money..he never said thank you or offered to pay us back..fine... One year ago he called and need money to get his teeth fixed. We told him it might be time to get a credit card for emergencies and he refused..he said he would figure it out and he obviously did because we didn't give him any money. Well, we just got another *emergency* call today. He needs $450 dollars. His ex girlfriend tried to kill herself a couple of weeks ago and was bakeracted...she's out now and wants to see their kid and he wants to get some sort of emergency hearing to get sole custody(he hopes). He doesn't have the money and we know we won't get paid back... We told him again that maybe he should get a credit card since he doesn't save money. It would be a good way to establish some sort of credit and so he doesn't have to call people every time he needs money... However, we really don't know what to do..my Christian side tells me that Jesus would give the money..but my other side(whatever that is) wants him to *TRY* and help himself first. I mean, are we going to get calls for the rest of his life everytime something comes up over $200? He does work now and makes 38K a year. He says he only has $250 a month for groceries and extras so we know we wouldn't be getting the money back. Also, I know his rent is really cheap so I'm wondering where all the $$ goes... Thanks for reading this and if you were sweet enough to do that, would you mind commenting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Also, wanted to add he lives in another state so we can't help with taking care of the baby(which we certainly would do).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah - tough situation. For a custody hearing, I would probably give him the money. Never a loan - always a gift. That way you don't feel so bad about it when he doesn't pay you back. I'm a softy for things involving kids. For brother's teeth, not so much. Think of the $$ as a gift you are giving for your nephew, not the BIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This is not about him not "having credit". This is about some level of financial, and possibly other, dysfunction. I would not give, loan, or help him get money. Offer to put him through Dave Ramsey's program. And even then, don't give him the money to do it, but pay directly. (I think Jesus would approve). BTW: You keep suggesting a credit card. I don't agree. But my post was really in response to things NOT in your OP. There are issues going on you don't see or don't want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 TThanks for reading this and if you were sweet enough to do that, would you mind commenting? Is he, perhaps, in the habit of just calling around to anyone and everyone bumming money? He asked about the teeth and moved on, after all. Is the woman really dangerous, or just dramatic? Is she really that different than she was 2 months ago? Is this just another reason to call around and hit people up? Those are some of the things I'd be asking myself. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I think you were smart to tell him to save money regarding the teeth. Some people get in a habit of relying of others and others get in a habit of relying on themselves. Sometimes you have to say "no" to really help them. If you help him with the custody, it may drag out and he may need more money. If he knows that you'll help if it has to do with the kid, then he may spend his money on other things and save the kid emergencies for you. Then that becomes an even worse situation for you. So it really is tough. No one can really tell you what to do. I hope it will work out for the best for your nephew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Along these lines, I can't say from experience, but it's hard to imagine an emergency custody hearing that would only cost $450 in attorney fees. Also, an emergency custody hearing sounds temporary in nature, with a full-blown (i.e., much more expensive) custody hearing not far down the road. I agree with the others that there likely are more issues here than meet the eye. If he has had financial troubles, it's possible that credit is unavailable to him. But, then he ought to start a rainy day fund, and should in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missiemick Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Money for family is always a gift -- not a loan. That said, I would only give money for emergencies (rent) and not for wants. If he cannot afford to obtain custody then maybe he's not prepared to provide for his chid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I can understand not wanting to have a credit card, but honestly one would expect a man in his position with his income would have the common sense to set some money aside for emergencies and everyday unplanned expenses. It doesn't sound as though he has been very responsible with his money, which is more of an issue as I see it than his unwillingness to get a credit card. We do not have credit cards or buy on credit because of our beliefs, but we do not try to borrow from anyone to meet those extra expenses that can't be planned for. That said, this child is really more important than the father's irresponsiblity with money. Instead of looking at this as just another attempt to borrow money, I think if I had the money available I would seriously consider giving it to him to get custody of the child in this situation. I know that it costs $300 to file the paperwork for emergency custody in my county, so his request is reasonable. It doesn't sound as if he has an attorney, but if he is working with the local county children's services or on the recommendation of the county mental health services he may not need one under the circumstances you mentioned (about the mother's mental instability). My husband is in intensive case manager for mentally ill clients, and he has at times been in the position to encourage family members to file for emergency custody of minor children. Also, typically these kinds of custody hearings are very different from the kind where two fit parents argue with one another and typically don't escalate into thousands of dollars in fees. Usually a formal custody hearing is set down the road and with the other parent's recent suicide attempt and probable involvement with mental health services the judge will determine what her wishes are, whether she is involuntarily committed (which may be why he is seeking emergency custody in the first place, FYI), or what steps she has taken to comply with treatment recommendations. If she is able to attend the hearing and wishes to contest custody and has been compliant with treatment, your brother may choose to drop it right there but at least the child has been legally provided for until the hearing and until mom has time to get herself together. Also the judge may order her to attend counseling and be compliant with mental health services for a given period of time or something of that nature to prove her competence before he will consider her fit for custody. I'm sorry your brother hasn't been very responsible, but it does sound as though he is planning to do the right thing for his child, and maybe this will be a chance for you to gently bring up the idea of setting money aside for emergencies in the future. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 He might be able to get free or very low-cost legal help. In your shoes, I might do some research to find some agencies in his area that can help with this issue and point him in that direction. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineW Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Do you think the ex-gf poses a danger to the baby? For $450 he's probably seeking a TRO (temporary restraining order) against her until she's stable enough to take care of the baby. I'd give him the money because this is a real emergency, refer him to legal aid for the regular custody hearings (they have a sliding scale depending on his income), and sternly remind him that now he is a dad and that the happy go lucky lifestyle doesn't cut it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Something is very wrong here. I wouldn't give him money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 38K a month - that's $3188 a month for a single guy. With $250 a month for groceries, that still leaves him over $2900 a month for rent and such. At 41 years old, he needs to figure out where his priorities are. If he's going to have sole custody he needs to get his finances under control. I think the "tough love" choice is to say "no". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Might be be a gambler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 No money. He needs you (and everyone else) to force him to become responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 :grouphug:Been there, done that. I am sorry for your troubles and think you are not getting the full story. As a lawyer I can tell you that he would not qualify for legal aid in our county with that income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 There's always a *need* when one doesn't plan for such things. It's hard to be tough, but his *needs* are just his irresponsibility showing. At $38,000 per year, the provision is there, he just spends it on other things. Why shouldn't he?...he can always call you! He'll never grow if you enable him. Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thank you all for giving your opinions and help..they certainly are varied (-; The only reason we mentioned the credit card was because he obviously doesn't have any money in savings... We've never met the babies mom(he's really not a baby I think he's 3 now-I've only met him twice) so I don't know what her deal is... I would just feel terrible if something happened to the little boy even though I don't feel a connection to him as family per say(because of the fact we aren't close with BIL and therefore his son) but for anyone I would feel bad if something happened. The thing is I don't know the whole story, we don't know anything really about his mom, we really aren't very close with him and like I said he really only calls for birthdays and when he needs $$... My husband just informed me he's not going to help him unless he helps himself. I feel like this is my fault for influencing the decision this way... On another note, his dad used to do the same thing(his dad passed away 2 yrs ago) he would only call us when he needed $$....we are not rich by any means but have been blessed financially through hard work and being debt free(and mostly by God's blessings) so we feel like maybe God is telling us to *share the wealth* ywim? But, I just feel like this will never stop if we don't stop it now... His mom asked us for $$ just last week for a plane ticket as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoftwinboys Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 38K a month - that's $3188 a month for a single guy. With $250 a month for groceries, that still leaves him over $2900 a month for rent and such. At 41 years old, he needs to figure out where his priorities are. If he's going to have sole custody he needs to get his finances under control. I think the "tough love" choice is to say "no". Good point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If the ex-gf tried to kill herself, their child probably isn't safe with her. I'd give him the money for the child's sake. His teeth....no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 His children are not your responsibility, neither are his teeth or his emergency hearing. If you continue to bail him out you are enabling him to continue the habit of not planning financially for emergencies. Would Jesus give him the money or would Jesus lead him in the direction of being able to provide for his own emergencies? Also, he may have no credit cards and no debts becuase he has had to file banktrupcy in the recent past. If this is the case he wouldn't be able to get a credit card. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 So with his shoestring budget, if he GETS custody, then how will he pay for child care while he works? You might want to budget A LOT more than $450! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 His mom asked us for $$ just last week for a plane ticket as well.. Yeek! time for some boundaries! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Do you absolutely know this is what the money is for? My aunt used to make up stories about needing money to fight her ex in court to keep custody of her kids (we all thought it was fishy because her ex was a known dope addict and no court was going to award him custody, plus he had quite the record for domestic violence), but she'd really be upset and my grandparents would give her the money. As it turns out, this was sooooo not what the money was for. Before I came to any conclusions about what to do, I would first want him to produce proof that this where the money is to go. Secondly, I'd ask myself if the child would be better off with him or in care. He may not be capable of providing a stable environment if he has been this fiscally irresponsible. If the request was legit and I truly believed the child was better off in his care than with a foster family, I would only pay the money directly to the court for the filing fees. I would NOT give it to him. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koerarmoca Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would never encourage a credit card, I would encourage him to set up an emerg. fund. I would also help pay for the custody hearing think of it as an investment in the best interest of the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuff Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah - tough situation. For a custody hearing, I would probably give him the money. Never a loan - always a gift. That way you don't feel so bad about it when he doesn't pay you back. I'm a softy for things involving kids. For brother's teeth, not so much. Think of the $$ as a gift you are giving for your nephew, not the BIL. :iagree: I'd give it this time, for the kid, as a gift. In the future, take it on a case by case basis. Help when you want, don't when you don't. You can't make him change, but his poor planning doesn't obligate you either. In most things, if I decided to help, I'd probably only partially help (give him $100 for a $200 need) The purpose would be to help it be possible, but he still has to work or save od struggle for it. (or beg someone else) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Money for family is always a gift -- not a loan. That said, I would only give money for emergencies (rent) and not for wants. :iagree: Best advice my granny told me -- never let money come between family. It is a gift. Never keep score on favors or gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would never encourage a credit card, I would encourage him to set up an emerg. fund. I would also help pay for the custody hearing think of it as an investment in the best interest of the child. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Of course he doesn't want to take a loan or get a cc....you have to pay those back! He has a habit of using a good excuse to get money for free. From what you said....he isn't even paying back the original amount. He is playing all of you, taking advantage of his own bad luck, and is going to continue to do so until everyone closes the family bank. I don't mind helping people who need help....money is not the kind of help he needs. I had a sister get into the habit of doing this. Recently, my mother and I were talking and figured out that she had 'borrowed' money from both of us for the same indecent. We think that it has probably happened more than once, where she hit up several family members for the same money, and just pocketed the extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessReplanted Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 38K a month - that's $3188 a month for a single guy. With $250 a month for groceries, that still leaves him over $2900 a month for rent and such. At 41 years old, he needs to figure out where his priorities are. If he's going to have sole custody he needs to get his finances under control. I think the "tough love" choice is to say "no". :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovemyblessings Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Family Court Services can help him with a hearing. It can be done at no cost to him (or you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If you were to give this money, you should pay it directly to the agency or office in question. Do not give him any more money. We had a family member who always had emergencies. We had given her small monetary amounts in the past---she always insisted she'd pay us back. Two years ago she asked for $100, we agreed and told her it was a gift and the last money she'd ever get from us. Period. If she wanted to consider it a loan, she had to pay back all the past amounts as well. And that was the last we heard from her concerning money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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