Am I wrong for expecting this?

[greenvneck]

It *does* have to do with trust. I mean, either you hope your kid is not starting a baby or not, right? I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, I'm a longtime lurker and just now starting to post, but I can't stop thinking about this thread!

 

Please forgive me, I have ADHD, so if I can post in short bullet-points, I can focus more on what I have to say rather than being grammatical and MLA-specific.

 

* Mosaicmind, I just wanted to give my (shortened) version of a church teen event. I couldn't find my boyfriend (he was 17), so I walked around the entire outside of the church, calling his name, with a friend, we were so confused and worried about where he was. Turns out he was in the bushes off to the side of the church, getting a BJ from an 11-yr. old. That was in 1991. I was 16.

 

* My entire family just arrived home hours ago from taking one of our 17yo daughters to Freshman Orientation at her college. Yes, she's going a year early, but no, I'm not worried. She has a solid confidence. She knows who she is, who she is not, who she WANTS to be. At some point we have to realize that we are not the cruise directors for our children's lives.

 

Haha, now said daughter has viewed what I wrote and said, "Ewwww, I REALLY didn't want to know that about your history!"

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Not necessarily. DD could be educated about how to prevent pregnancy and STDs.

I would always prefer to have my teens thoroughly educated in this department than to assume just because I have strict rules I can prevent them from having ***. Not realistic, IMO.

 

I know this is something of a thread hijack. But my desire to have my kids not s3xually entangled goes well beyond not wanting them to be teen aged fathers or contract an STD (though it does include that). I think that level of intimacy includes an emotional entanglement that may not have both parties on the same page.

 

When I look back at the relationships I had in high school and in college, I think that they included emotional heartache that I didn't need to have. Especially when my view about a relationship was not similar to the view that the guy had.

 

I would like to provide my kids a place of shelter. Not in the sense of keeping them under lock and key. But in the sense that a strong tree that has weathered many storms provides shelters. I'd like to help them avoid some of the pitfalls that snared me.

 

So yeah, I need to make sure they know about pregnancy and STD. I also need to make sure they know that there are potential emotional tolls too. There isn't a foil package that has a prevention for that.

[Murphy101]

True, but if this isn't your implication, why in the world would you tell someone's child that you don't agree with their parent's rules? :001_huh:

 

Nonsense.

 

People talk. Dating people talk a lot. It's part of the process of growing a relationship.

It's perfectly normal, even necessary, to figuring out how to navigate the waters.

Boys have to know when the girls curfew is, how late they can call, does he have to come in to pick her up or is honking from the curb allowed, can he take her to an R movie or not, and dozens of other things.

It's natural that they are going to compare what their own parents require to the parents of who they are dating.

It's natural that they are going to learn about the parents some too. One would hope! Is the dad strict? Are her siblings cool? Does her mom dislike unexpected additions to dinner or is he welcome to join anytime?

 

I fully expect to welcome who my kids date into our home and get to know each other. Good grief, one day they could be the parent of my grandchildren!

 

So no, I don't think my having a differing opinion is something I should have to hide in my own home and I don't think my disagreement is a defacto endorsement for a kid to disregard their own parents' opinion.

[Margaret in GA]

I appreciate all the input. I do have much experience with teens. I have 4 of them right now and one that just turned 21 (2 little ones soon to follow). And I have MUCH experience with teen sex. I was extremely active when I was a teen; my parents didn't care but then they both sexually abused me. As long as he is in highschool and lives under our roof I can control to some extent what he does and where he does it.

 

I got pregnant as a senior in highschool at my boyfriend's house while parents were away. Yes, we could have done it other places but the opportunity never presented itself. Right now ds does nothing outside of the house except go to church, youth group and go to friend's house occasionally.

 

I am not stupid enough to believe that he can't do something with her if he really wants to but if I can show him I love him enough to put these rules into place I will. Just because he can find other ways doesn't mean that I just say well ok since you would find another way anyway go ahead and go over to her house while mom is gone and be in her bedroom.

 

I wish my parents cared enough to ask where I was going to be and made sure that parents were home. I was educated and believed that I would never get pregnant but I was wrong.

 

:grouphug: It sounds like you had a really tough time. I am so grateful that my parents did make rules for me and I knew that they loved me and wanted to protect me... but, I found a way around those rules and was s3xually active as a teen. I think you should stick by your guns, but I think you need to deal with the very real possibility that your son already has become s3xually active. You or your dh need to have a very serious talk. Be non-judgemental. Be loving. Be prepared for him to close up and not communicate, but hang in there and find the truth. Tell him what it is you fear and why you fear it. Please provide him with c*ndoms if need be. It really sounds like the opportunity has presented itself to them and you should know that there is no going back now if he's crossed that threshold.

Margaret

PS my teen dd managed to become s*xually active when I allowed her and her bf only to hang out in public places (movie theatres, the mall, youth group). It happens.

[Peela]

And if you found out your son is already sexually active, what then? Are you ready for that possibility? Have you considered how you would respond beyond initially getting upset?

 

For me it got to a point where I realised I could not control my children when they were not in my home and if they are determined, I cannot prevent them from their explorations, especially when their peers are all doing it.

 

In my home, friends in bedrooms with open doors is ok but watched. We are a no alcohol home. Their friends' families have different rules and I do not try to control them. There is one family, a homeschooling family, where I no longer like my kids to go much because the parents hand out alcohol to the visiting teens, even knowing I don't want them to hand it out to mine- and i did say so. They did anyway. Their house, their rules, so I just make it a bit difficult.

 

But dh and I recently realised we needed to work on more explicit education (STDs, birth control, drugs) and harm minimisation (around all those)- because the horse had long bolted. So the line of communication has changed and the kids can be more open rather than defensive, because they are accepted- even though we don't "approve"- really, our judgements don't matter- their safety does. It's the only way to get the important information in and to maintain a flow of authentic communication.

 

By the way, we were in denial and it took a certain incident to wake us up out of it and change our approach.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Peela

[Cheryl in NM]

Youth group is not always a sex-free place. As with a pp I, also had an encounter, but it was pushed on me my the youth leaders! :001_huh:

 

No wonder I stayed away from church for 10 years! My parents knew the youth leaders; our church was extremely small, 10 families maybe.

 

I agree that you must set rules, but I don't think you can expect another parent to enforce your rules, especially when she doesn't agree with them.

 

You are not out of line for what you expect.

 

But, at some point, you are going to have to trust your parenting and your son. Wouldn't it be better to try out that trust now before he goes away to college and falling back on you would mean dropping out?

Edited June 9, 2011 by Cheryl in NM

[Love_to_Read]

I know this is something of a thread hijack. But my desire to have my kids not s3xually entangled goes well beyond not wanting them to be teen aged fathers or contract an STD (though it does include that). I think that level of intimacy includes an emotional entanglement that may not have both parties on the same page.

 

When I look back at the relationships I had in high school and in college, I think that they included emotional heartache that I didn't need to have. Especially when my view about a relationship was not similar to the view that the guy had.

 

I would like to provide my kids a place of shelter. Not in the sense of keeping them under lock and key. But in the sense that a strong tree that has weathered many storms provides shelters. I'd like to help them avoid some of the pitfalls that snared me.

 

So yeah, I need to make sure they know about pregnancy and STD. I also need to make sure they know that there are potential emotional tolls too. There isn't a foil package that has a prevention for that.

 

:iagree:

 

I'd be having a talk from the angle of where does he see this relationship going? Is she marriage-worthy? Co-parent worthy? Getting physical too early can really cheapen that if she is, and can get all entangled if she isn't.

 

Rehash that your goal for the rules isn't *just* about preg., but also about his future and her future, about being able to have an awesome marriage without the burden of lugging that baggage.

[Mosaicmind]

Trust me I know all about church youth group. We had several teens having sex in a closet at our youth group about 5 years ago and that's when things changed for the better, so I don't worry about youth group. He and I have had a heart to heart and he is not having sex or had sex ever. I believe him and he says he doesn't want to. So, I told him that I am not willing to put him in positions where that maybe compromised. He can't control his raging hormones if he is allowed to be in situations where things can get out of hand.

 

A friend of mine told me that she has the same rules for her dd who is 18 and soon to be a senior in highschool. One thing that opened up communication with her was reading the book, "Every Young Woman's Battle." And she gave her dd's bf "Every Young Man's Battle" and "Wild At Heart".

 

I am sorry but I don't believe that I need to just think that in today's world teens are going to be sexually active. We are called to be separate and aliens in this world.

[TheAutumnOak]

Trust me I know all about church youth group. We had several teens having sex in a closet at our youth group about 5 years ago and that's when things changed for the better, so I don't worry about youth group. He and I have had a heart to heart and he is not having sex or had sex ever. I believe him and he says he doesn't want to. So, I told him that I am not willing to put him in positions where that maybe compromised. He can't control his raging hormones if he is allowed to be in situations where things can get out of hand.

 

A friend of mine told me that she has the same rules for her dd who is 18 and soon to be a senior in highschool. One thing that opened up communication with her was reading the book, "Every Young Woman's Battle." And she gave her dd's bf "Every Young Man's Battle" and "Wild At Heart".

 

I am sorry but I don't believe that I need to just think that in today's world teens are going to be sexually active. We are called to be separate and aliens in this world.

 

:iagree:

[Haiku]

Am I wrong? Am I being too protective?

 

I don't think it's a matter of right/wrong. Do I think you are being too protective? Yes, I do. Your ds is nearly legally an adult. He is a young adult, and I think he's past the age of needing to be monitored by an adult when he's at someone else's home.

 

You say it's not a matter of trust, but I think it is. You seem to believe that your ds is not capable of making a responsible choice because he's at the mercy of hormones.

 

I think that I am would be putting him in a position that he is not prepared for if I allowed him freedom to be alone with her in her home and in her bedroom.

 

If that's the case, then you should enforce your rule and probably limit ds to seeing his girlfriend at your house since he chose to violate your established rule. Were it me, however, I would re-evaluate the rule.

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

I would be very dissapointed in my son if he went against the house rules of his gf's mother. That doesn't show respect or maturity, and could get her into a lot of trouble. Is risking her to some sort of grounding or punishment being a good boyfriend?

Edited June 13, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Haiku]

I'm saying that maybe his dad should talk to him about respecting women and why the rules you've set are so important to his future.

 

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but I see nothing here to indicate that the OP's son doesn't respect women. Being in a teenage girl's bedroom does not mean he doesn't respect the girl. My mom let me have boys in my room with the door open. My room is where I liked to hang out. It was my space, it had my stuff, my music, my books, etc; it was where I was comfortable. There's nothing any more inherently s3xy about a bedroom than there is about a living room. If it's all about s3x, well that van be done on the floor of any room. Beds don't somehow transform a room from virtuous to a den of iniquity.

 

But like I said, maybe I am misunderstanding you and all that I wrote makes no sense! :D

 

Tara

[NanceXToo]

Personally I do find it to be on the unreasonable slash over protective side, but it's your kid!

[TheAutumnOak]

You say it's not a matter of trust, but I think it is. You seem to believe that your ds is not capable of making a responsible choice because he's at the mercy of hormones.

 

A person is not at the mercy of hormones, but it does have a strong pull that seems to be stronger than a lot of people...The best way to avoid unwanted s-xual activity is not to put yourself in a situation that calls for you to "resist"...The s-x drive is strong, and I think it is very unwise to think that "responsibility" will win out when a person is tempted, especially a teenager...

 

ETA: It is not a matter of trust, but a matter of wisdom...

Edited June 9, 2011 by TheAutumnOak
Something to add & seen typo :-)

[ereks mom]

In my opinion, your beef is with your son and not with the gf's mother. He knew your rules and should have adhered to them.

 

Edited to add that I think your rules are completely reasonable and similar to what I grew up with.

 

:iagree:

[Murphy101]

A person is not at the mercy of hormones, but it does have a strong pull that seems to be stronger than a lot of people...The best way to avoid unwanted s-xual activity is not to put yourself in a situation that calls for you to "resist"...The s-x drive is strong, and I think it is very unwise to think that "responsibily" will win out when a person is tempted, especially a teenager...

 

ETA: It is not a matter of trust, but a matter of wisdom...

 

I can actually agree with that.

 

Thing is the young man in question is the one who is responsible for not putting himself in this situations. And he better learn it now.

 

If the girl gets pregnant, it won't be the parents fault.

 

It will be bc both those young people let themselves get into a situation they should have avoided.

[Love_to_Read]

A person is not at the mercy of hormones, but it does have a strong pull that seems to be stronger than a lot of people...The best way to avoid unwanted s-xual activity is not to put yourself in a situation that calls for you to "resist"...The s-x drive is strong, and I think it is very unwise to think that "responsibility" will win out when a person is tempted, especially a teenager...

 

ETA: It is not a matter of trust, but a matter of wisdom...

:iagree: Ask ds how it's going...what situations does he see a need to avoid? Put the responsibility on him to evaluate the situation. As in literally ask him. If he already agrees that he wants to wait, he should be thinking it through very thoroughly so that he can continue to act wisely. Remind hiim of the verse..."FLEE from temptation..." Does he truly feel that he's not tempted at her houe, or would it be wiser to seek privacy in other ways, like talking quietly on a park bench?

[twoforjoy]

A person is not at the mercy of hormones, but it does have a strong pull that seems to be stronger than a lot of people...The best way to avoid unwanted s-xual activity is not to put yourself in a situation that calls for you to "resist"...The s-x drive is strong, and I think it is very unwise to think that "responsibility" will win out when a person is tempted, especially a teenager...]

 

I guess I'm just not sure, in all honesty, why a bedroom with an open door is somehow more tempting of a place than, say, a family room the kids are in alone or a basement or any other room in the house where the kids are alone together. Or being in the yard alone. Or the car. Basically, I don't get why a bedroom is seen as somehow fundamentally different from other places, especially given that we're talking about the door being open and other people being home. If the idea is that the kids shouldn't be left alone unsupervised in any room, okay, but I don't see why being alone unsupervised in the bedroom with the door open would hold more of a temptation than being alone unsupervised anywhere else in the house. If anything, I'd think that the kids might be extra-cautious in the bedroom, since they'd figure somebody would be checking up on them.

 

I'm also not sure at all why anybody would think that a parent who allows their child to have a boyfriend/girlfriend in their room with the door open and somebody in the house doesn't care if the child gets pregnant. That's a leap I'm not seeing. If this girl's mom was allowing them to have sleepovers in the bedroom and not caring what they did all night, I might agree, but allowing the bedroom to be a place where they can hang out doesn't mean that at all.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

A person is not at the mercy of hormones, but it does have a strong pull that seems to be stronger than a lot of people...The best way to avoid unwanted s-xual activity is not to put yourself in a situation that calls for you to "resist"...The s-x drive is strong, and I think it is very unwise to think that "responsibility" will win out when a person is tempted, especially a teenager...

 

ETA: It is not a matter of trust, but a matter of wisdom...

 

:iagree: So true!! I think teens need to be "assisted" in making wise choices/protecting themselves and their bf/gf. I have heard the "but they're good kids" argument before, and I think that is unwise. Several wise parents I know help their children set up their own set of rules, to protect themselves, helping them to know that they are not immune to the pressure just because they're smart or nice or "good"!!

 

We have a friend who let the girl's boyfriend move in because he had problems in the home/abusive parents. Noble motives, I am sure, but a better choice for the family of a male friend of the boy rather than his girlfriend. I told her that was a situation I would want to remedy quickly by finding him a safe environment that did NOT involve sleeping under the same roof with my daughter. She said, "Oh, I trust them. They're good kids." Going to work, leaving them alone together, etc. Not wise!!

[southcarolinamom]

At our house, a parent must always be home for my ds and his girlfriend to be together. If they are downstairs watching TV, I tell them both ahead of time that I will occasionally "poke my head in the doorway" and check on them. I say it with a smile, but they both know EXACTLY what I mean! :D

 

At my daughter's boyfriend's home, a parent is always home if they are together. She may be in his room, as long as: 1. His door is open and 2. One of his siblings is also in the room with them. It's a "hanging out" thing -- where he and my dd and his teenage sister talk. If watching tv in another part of his home, my dd, her boyfriend, and his teenage sister (who is also my daughter's friend) are in the same room.

 

As my husband would say -- "trust but verify!" :lol:

[Mosaicmind]

A person is not at the mercy of hormones, but it does have a strong pull that seems to be stronger than a lot of people...The best way to avoid unwanted s-xual activity is not to put yourself in a situation that calls for you to "resist"...The s-x drive is strong, and I think it is very unwise to think that "responsibility" will win out when a person is tempted, especially a teenager...

 

ETA: It is not a matter of trust, but a matter of wisdom...

 

 

This is exactly what I am saying. Why would I allow him to be in a situation where he would have to "resist"? As far as the bedroom thing goes; hers is upstairs at the very end of the hall away from all other living areas. If her brother were in there with them well that would be different. But, I see them as having more "freedom" in the bedroom versus other areas of the house.

 

I have left for short periods of time and had other kids here when they were here but not all day as was the case on Tuesday.

[Cheryl in NM]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but I see nothing here to indicate that the OP's son doesn't respect women. Being in a teenage girl's bedroom does not mean he doesn't respect the girl. My mom let me have boys in my room with the door open. My room is where I liked to hang out. It was my space, it had my stuff, my music, my books, etc; it was where I was comfortable. There's nothing any more inherently s3xy about a bedroom than there is about a living room. If it's all about s3x, well that van be done on the floor of any room. Beds don't somehow transform a room from virtuous to a den of iniquity.

 

But like I said, maybe I am misunderstanding you and all that I wrote makes no sense! :D

 

Tara

 

Oh yes! You misunderstood me! It's obvious that the OPs family's idea of respecting a woman is to abstain from sex until marriage. THAT's the talk I recommend the boy's father should have with him. I think it's very important that boys hear from their fathers and as many men as possible that it is respectful of a woman to wait to become sexually active. Even if you aren't Christian and don't believe in celibacy before marriage having sex as a teen and sometimes a young adult can be disastrous emotionally. IMO and IME, teens (and young adults for that matter) are not ready for that level of relationship.

 

I understand about the bedroom, personal space/stuff thing. I think behind closed doors in a bedroom is too tempting. I think in a secluded part of the house with bedroom door open is too tempting. I think it's possible for a young courting couple to have enough privacy sitting on the front porch or in the living room with the rest of the family in other parts of the house. I don't think dating teens needs oodles of alone time. I think they should spend time with each family and with friends. That way they can really learn about each other in the context of real life. Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

I personally think it is insulting to think that a teen boy is physically incapable of controlling his hormones. I think a 17 year old boy should be able to choose non-tempting situations in which he will spend his time. But if he chooses, or ends up in, a tempting situation, he CAN control himself. He can be tempted, yes. He can chose to give into that temptation, yes. He can also chose to avoid very tempting situations which is were it seems THIS teen needs some help. He needs to learn to do this for himself, Mom will not always be standing over him forcing him to do what is right. Having male input is important here. Of course Mom wants him to wait, but guys are always h*rn dogs right? (This is said tongue in cheek...sort of).

[sheryl]

You know Lisa, I'm with ya 100 %

 

Last year I told my dd that no friends/boys were allowed in her bedroom. My good friend has a son the same age as my dd. Friend/her son and my dd and I all get together. Other times I'm watching her son and my friend is watching my dd.

 

I had to tell my friend last year when dd was 11 + that she can no longer go up to her son's bedroom to play.

 

Even though they are still young and these 2 s.n. kids don't get it...these rules are a reflection of our values, etc.

 

I agree with you. Hang on to your convictions!

[twoforjoy]

Hang on to your convictions!

 

Is anybody being asked to drop their convictions? The only person I see being asked to drop their convictions here are the mother who believes it is okay for her child to bring a boyfriend into her room with the door open.

 

Why is it that it's fine to ask people with more liberal convictions to drop their convictions and change them to fit the preferences of more conservative families, but not okay to do the opposite?

[EthiopianFood]

Nonsense.

 

People talk. Dating people talk a lot. It's part of the process of growing a relationship.

It's perfectly normal, even necessary, to figuring out how to navigate the waters.

Boys have to know when the girls curfew is, how late they can call, does he have to come in to pick her up or is honking from the curb allowed, can he take her to an R movie or not, and dozens of other things.

It's natural that they are going to compare what their own parents require to the parents of who they are dating.

It's natural that they are going to learn about the parents some too. One would hope! Is the dad strict? Are her siblings cool? Does her mom dislike unexpected additions to dinner or is he welcome to join anytime?

 

I fully expect to welcome who my kids date into our home and get to know each other. Good grief, one day they could be the parent of my grandchildren!

 

So no, I don't think my having a differing opinion is something I should have to hide in my own home and I don't think my disagreement is a defacto endorsement for a kid to disregard their own parents' opinion.

 

The OP said the other mother told the ds that she disagreed with his mom's rules. You honestly see nothing offensive whatsoever about being told directly that a parent doesn't want their child to be left alone in the house, then telling that child when the parent isn't around that you don't agree with their parent's rule, and leaving said child alone against the parent's wishes? You would honesty do that and feel okay about it?

[amey311]

The OP said the other mother told the ds that she disagreed with his mom's rules. You honestly see nothing offensive whatsoever about being told directly that a parent doesn't want their child to be left alone in the house, then telling that child when the parent isn't around that you don't agree with their parent's rule, and leaving said child alone against the parent's wishes? You would honesty do that and feel okay about it?

 

I'd be curious to know what exactly was said. These kinds of things can easily be the result of a sort of telephone kind of thing as part of discussing it within a family.

 

Daughter says something to mom about how the rule at Boyfriend's house is different from the rule at her house.

 

Mom says something about how different people have different standards and requirements, blah blah blah (which is how differing rules have been discussed since you were dealing with preschoolers and some houses had a "food only in the kitchen" rule and another house had "food can be eaten in the living room in front of the TV on Friday nights" or whatever).

 

Daughter and Boyfriend talk about all kinds of things (like teens do - what DON'T they talk about??) and maybe Daughter complains about how it stinks that they can't go in Boyfriend's room sometimes to get away from Little Siblings (maybe even Boyfriend says something about how it would be great to be alone with her and not have Siblings asking to do Girlfriend's hair or whatever). Girlfriend mentions how she likes the rule at her house better, and that she talked to her mom about it and that her mom even thinks they have a better rule.

 

Mom hasn't said their rule is BETTER, only DIFFERENT, but maybe Girlfriend assumed different meant better. Obviously girlfriend THINKS her rule is better, and it's quite possible that because: Mom says rules are different > Girlfriend likes her rule better that THEREFORE, Mom thinks her rule is better. The teen mental corollary of that is... Mom thinks Boyfriend's rule is stupid.

 

Is slightly wacky logic, but I don't think it's that completely hard to understand how "different houses have different rules" can be mentally translated to "your rules suck."

 

Basically - I don't think you can assume that Girlfriend's mom actually said "Boyfriend's mom has a stupid rule." AND, I also don't think that telling a 17 year old girl that you disagree with another adult is "Offensive." Adults disagree all the time and about all kinds of things. I also think it's pretty obvious that Girlfriend's mom disagrees with Boyfriend's Mom about the rule because they have different rules.

[amey311]

To the OP, I know you asked "am I wrong? am i overprotective?" but I don't think you actually want those questions answered, or that you would change your mind.

 

Also - mentioning that the girlfriend doesn't have a father - is there some implication there? Do you think the rules would be different in her house if there was a father there? This kind of thing comes up occasionally here:

 

"Let me tell you about this broken family and their lax rules! We're trying to be friends with them, but they won't conform to our standards! In our two parent family with a stay at home parent, none of these things would be acceptable!! Why can't things be different in this other family?" :glare:

[EthiopianFood]

Basically - I don't think you can assume that Girlfriend's mom actually said "Boyfriend's mom has a stupid rule." AND, I also don't think that telling a 17 year old girl that you disagree with another adult is "Offensive."

 

I agree. I'm not sure why you're quoting me, since I never said any of those things.....

 

This is what the OP said:

I also found out that she told ds and gf that she didn't agree with our rules and thought we were being too strict.

 

I'm not seeing any arguments here that the gf's mom probably never even said this. I am reading comments that the gf's mom did nothing wrong. I can only go by what the OP says, as can everyone else. So my question was then, is this behavior actually considered okay? You would actually do this yourself?

Edited June 10, 2011 by RaeAnne

[Hedgehog]

In my opinion, your beef is with your son and not with the gf's mother. He knew your rules and should have adhered to them.

 

:iagree:

 

Unlike Daisy, we did not have a "no being alone together in a bedroom" rule, and I really wished that we had. DH and I kept to the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit, and if I had my time back that's one thing I would definitely change.

 

Your son is not yet an adult; he knows your rules and IMO he should respect them.

[Murphy101]

The OP said the other mother told the ds that she disagreed with his mom's rules. You honestly see nothing offensive whatsoever about being told directly that a parent doesn't want their child to be left alone in the house, then telling that child when the parent isn't around that you don't agree with their parent's rule, and leaving said child alone against the parent's wishes? You would honesty do that and feel okay about it?

 

I've already said I don't have an issue with OP's rules.

I've already said it is the OP's problem, not the other mom.

No, I have absolutely no problem with another parent disagreeing with me and saying so. Especially in their own home.

The problem is not the other parent.

The problem is 100% the son of the OP.

If her son had been dating my dd and I didn't agree with his family rules, I'd tell him I wasn't changing my parenting for every guy my girl dates. If his family has a rule he knows he has to follow in order to date - then HE better follow it. Because I am not going to argue with his mommy for him.

 

I also think this entire conversation became moot when the OP admitted she had left them alone at her house too. She did the same thing! Complaining the other mother was gone longer is asinine. Only takes a minute to make a baby folks.

[amey311]

I agree. I'm not sure why you're quoting me, since I never said any of those things.....

 

I didn't mean to imply that you were saying these things (the bit about the rule being stupid). My thought process sprung from what I quoted from you above, as well as previous posters which included:

 

The OP:

I also found out that she told ds and gf that she didn't agree with our rules and thought we were being too strict.

 

Amy in NH:

The other mother did not have a right to tell your son that your rules are stupid and he doesn't have to obey them at her house.

 

Martha:

Saying I don't agree with someone and or that I think they are too strict is NOT the same as saying I think they are dumb and/or telling kids to not to listen to their parents.

 

RaeAnne:

True, but if this isn't your implication, why in the world would you tell someone's child that you don't agree with their parent's rules?

 

So, we're adults and we've made the "logical" leap that disagreeing with another parent's rule = other parent's rule is stupid. AND, I'm curious to know if the OP heard from Girlfriend's MOM that Girlfriend's mom disagrees and thinks OP is too strict (which is obvious by observation, but we don't know if she said so directly) OR if this is something that has been interpretted thru teenage ears.

 

Was it a direct quote from GF's mom, or hearsay? Because aside from the fact that it is obvious that the GF's mom disagrees with OP's rule, there could also be an undercurrent of the OP's son saying "well GF's mom thinks your rule is too strict" as a way of saying what HE thinks without having to be that bold.

 

I have a ten year old who often can't express exactly what he means (and seems to regularly speak in non-sequitors) so I spend a decent amount of time trying to understand the leaps in logic he's taken and the mental conversation he's had before he spoke, so maybe that's what I'm doing here, too.

 

I could completely see a teenager thought process working this way.

[EthiopianFood]

I've already said I don't have an issue with OP's rules.

I've already said it is the OP's problem, not the other mom.

No, I have absolutely no problem with another parent disagreeing with me and saying so. Especially in their own home.

The problem is not the other parent.

The problem is 100% the son of the OP.

If her son had been dating my dd and I didn't agree with his family rules, I'd tell him I wasn't changing my parenting for every guy my girl dates. If his family has a rule he knows he has to follow in order to date - then HE better follow it. Because I am not going to argue with his mommy for him.

 

If I disagreed with another parent's rules, I would tell them directly that I had no intention on following them in my house. It has nothing to do with whether or not she should agree with the rule. It has to do with how she let it be known that she disagreed.

 

Just because it is up to the son to listen to his own mother, that doesn't mean the other parent wasn't completely disrespectful. They are two separate issues.

 

I also think this entire conversation became moot when the OP admitted she had left them alone at her house too. She did the same thing! Complaining the other mother was gone longer is asinine. Only takes a minute to make a baby folks.

 

Agreed.

[EthiopianFood]

I didn't mean to imply that you were saying these things (the bit about the rule being stupid). My thought process sprung from what I quoted from you above, as well as previous posters which included:

 

The OP:

 

Amy in NH:

 

Martha:

 

RaeAnne:

 

So, we're adults and we've made the "logical" leap that disagreeing with another parent's rule = other parent's rule is stupid. AND, I'm curious to know if the OP heard from Girlfriend's MOM that Girlfriend's mom disagrees and thinks OP is too strict (which is obvious by observation, but we don't know if she said so directly) OR if this is something that has been interpretted thru teenage ears.

 

Was it a direct quote from GF's mom, or hearsay? Because aside from the fact that it is obvious that the GF's mom disagrees with OP's rule, there could also be an undercurrent of the OP's son saying "well GF's mom thinks your rule is too strict" as a way of saying what HE thinks without having to be that bold.

 

I have a ten year old who often can't express exactly what he means (and seems to regularly speak in non-sequitors) so I spend a decent amount of time trying to understand the leaps in logic he's taken and the mental conversation he's had before he spoke, so maybe that's what I'm doing here, too.

 

I could completely see a teenager thought process working this way.

 

This is all very true. Thank you for clarifying. :001_smile:

[*LC]

Im going to take this from the other moms life. Im a widow with a bunch of kids. The kids are there more than I am. I dont know how old the girlfriend is, but I know my second and younger and friends are left with my 16 year old all the time. In a few years, I would be okay with leaving second child and "friend" in our house with the oldest there to supervise. I know my oldest is stricter than I am, so they would not be going into bedrooms alone.

 

The other mom may feel guilty that your son and her daughter always have to go to your house, because she cannot be home when they want to go to girlfriends house. Ask her?

 

Be upset at your son, he broke your rules.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I agree with the posters who said you can't tell the girls mom how to run her house. You can ask her and hope your son follows your rules.

 

He's 17, it might be time to start allowing more freedom of choice for him. Have a lot of talks about responsible behavior, and the effects of immuture actions. If given the choice he will most likely act as you have taught him. If given only rules to follow he is more likely to break them. This is from my own personal past experience as a overprotected 17 year old.

Edited June 10, 2011 by foxbridgeacademy
clarification

[Karis]

We have never really had to deal with boyfriend/girlfriend issues with our older two kids, but now with ds #3 who just turned 17 has a girlfriend. They dated for about two months, broke up for a couple of months and have been back together since March. Girlfriend has never had a father in the home and she has an older brother. Mom works two jobs and we have talked with her and had her over here frequently along with the girlfriend.

 

Dh and I have several rules regarding this relationship. First when they are together in one of our homes a parent has to be in the home. Another rule is that they are not allowed in each other's room--no exceptions!! There are other rules but for this post those are the ones we are talking about.

 

Today ds asked to go to gf's house and said mom would be there. I found out that mom was only there for the lunch hour and that they were there with gf's older brother all day. I also found out that they are allowed to spend time in gf's room with the door open when they are at her house.

 

I just had a face to face discussion with gf's mom who sees nothing wrong with either one of those things. She asked me when I was going to trust him enough to allow him to do those things. It has nothing to do with trust. I know what can happen when you put teenagers in situations like this and hormones are raging. She understands but says she trusts her dd and my son and believes that there is nothing wrong.

 

I stuck to my values and said that it was my our decision that a parent has to be in the home when they are there and that they are not allowed in a bedroom by themselves (I don't care whether the door is open). Am I wrong? Am I being too protective? Yes, I know that things can happen on dates but that isn't happening because ds doesn't even have his license because he doesn't have a job and therefore can't pay for insurance.

 

I think that I am would be putting him in a position that he is not prepared for if I allowed him freedom to be alone with her in her home and in her bedroom.

 

I agree with you.

 

If gf's mom wants to be a premature granny, that's her business.

 

But, ultimately, your son knows what is expected of HIM.

 

It's too easy to get caught up. The boundaries are there for his protection.

 

Is he mature enough to appreciate THAT? If the other mom wants the focus to be on trust... can he be trusted to follow the rules/ maintain his personal boundaries?

 

(in spite of what the cute girlfriend and her mama says/does)

 

The Big question is...

 

What's wrong with people hanging out in the family room?

 

 

The bedroom is a private intimate space.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Karis
typo

[Haiku]

 

If gf's mom wants to be a premature granny, that's her business.

 

 

 

I'm really disturbed by the idea that leaving teens unsupervised or allowing them to be in a bedroom alone = s3x and babies. I think it shows a real lack of respect of teens as people, able to make independent decisions and not just hormone-crazed s3x machines. Some teens act foolishly. Some do not. Some have s3x. Some do not. Some have s3x without much thought; some have s3x after careful consideration. Teens are individuals and not some monolithic group ruled by raging hormones.

 

Tara

[EthiopianFood]

I'm really disturbed by the idea that leaving teens unsupervised or allowing them to be in a bedroom alone = s3x and babies. I think it shows a real lack of respect of teens as people, able to make independent decisions and not just hormone-crazed s3x machines. Some teens act foolishly. Some do not. Some have s3x. Some do not. Some have s3x without much thought; some have s3x after careful consideration. Teens are individuals and not some monolithic group ruled by raging hormones.

 

Tara

 

I respect your opinion, so I want to make it clear that I don't at all mean this in a hostile way. :001_smile: I think the thing is, a LOT of people assume their teens are mature enough to make the right decision. Like you said, some act foolishly, and some don't. I'm sure you would agree though that the ones who end up pregnant often weren't obviously in the "foolish" category. You could argue that teens have the right to make that mistake, but some people don't feel comfortable with that. WRT having s*x after careful consideration, some parents don't consider that a valid choice, just an immature one. Whether I agree with any of this or not, I don't think it is necessarily disturbing, you know?

[ktgrok]

I'm really disturbed by the idea that leaving teens unsupervised or allowing them to be in a bedroom alone = s3x and babies. I think it shows a real lack of respect of teens as people, able to make independent decisions and not just hormone-crazed s3x machines. Some teens act foolishly. Some do not. Some have s3x. Some do not. Some have s3x without much thought; some have s3x after careful consideration. Teens are individuals and not some monolithic group ruled by raging hormones.

 

Tara

 

I'm not judging out of ill will. I was a REALLY good kid. Straight As. A good friend. Didn't get in any trouble. Never drank or smoked or anything as a teenager. But my boyfriend and I got into some pretty intense petting while his mom was out of the house. I didn't know what I wanted, I'd never planned for that to happen. He hadn't either. This kept happening, and after things went way too far he broke up with me. I to this day believe he did that as he deep down felt it was the only way to prevent us from going "all the way" while saving face. We should never have been in that situation.

 

Years later and again, in a boyfriend's room while the parents were not home, and I lost my virginity. I believe I continued to date him even after he seemd unstable because I felt that as my first, he should be my only. Again, a situation I would not have been in if my parents and his had enforced stricter rules.

 

And again, i was a good kid that in all other areas made excellent decisions. I wasn't ready for those decisions. The physical desire was too strong.

[Peela]

I'm really disturbed by the idea that leaving teens unsupervised or allowing them to be in a bedroom alone = s3x and babies. I think it shows a real lack of respect of teens as people, able to make independent decisions and not just hormone-crazed s3x machines. Some teens act foolishly. Some do not. Some have s3x. Some do not. Some have s3x without much thought; some have s3x after careful consideration. Teens are individuals and not some monolithic group ruled by raging hormones.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

Also- we don't "own" them. They are their own people, especially by 17. They should be owning themselves by around that age.

 

I think it is an issue of control- the OP wants to control what her son does everywhere, at all times, to make sure he doesn't do what she thinks is wrong. Other parents just are not going to comply with her, because they are unique individuals with their own values- probably even well thought out values- and to judge them so badly and try to control what goes on in their house is an inappropriate use of control and power, IMO. To me it is a control issue and that is very common with parents and their teenagers- and it is a two way thing- the parents need to let go of control, over time, and the teenagers need to step up in responsiblity (or not- the parents will still need to let go of control). Its a dance that happens over those years. But the parents do need to keep looking at how much control is appropriate. The OP is at least asking for feedback- we all have to self reflect on this issue and we all respond a little differently. The line I feel she stepped over is asking another parent to uphold her values- she does not respect theirs because they are more liberal. That just makes them more liberal, not wrong, and I don't feel it is her place to try to control them.

 

I think the point is to keep examining ourselves and recognise where we are coming from- our agenda- and examine whether we are being rigid, dogmatic, refusing to let go, all those things. It's not just about the teens and a black and white right and wrong issue. If we don't let go appropriately, our relationship with our teens also suffers. There will be feedback that forces us to reflect - whether we get more and more rigid, or learn to let go appropriately, is our own journey and we all make it in our own way and timing.

[Haiku]

Whether I agree with any of this or not, I don't think it is necessarily disturbing, you know?

 

I understand what you are saying, but when I see someone say something like what I quoted above, I do think it's disturbing. We are discussing a mom who doesn't want her son to be alone with his gf (which is a reasonable position, whether I would choose it for my child or not) but the leap to S3X!! AND BABIES!! just because another mom makes a different decision is disturbing. It's as disturbing as making the leap to S3XUALLY REPRESSED!! AND STUNTED!! that someone might say of those who advocate courting or other generally more conservative approaches to teen relationships.

 

FTR, I am not a huge fan of teen relationships. I wasted my share of time on them as a teen. That said, my 16 year old dd has a bf. I'm not completely thrilled with the idea of it, but ... my dh has no problem with it, and it's not a battle I chose to fight.

 

Tara

Edited June 11, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[EthiopianFood]

I understand what you are saying, but when I see someone say something like what I quoted above, I do think it's disturbing. We are discussing a mom who doesn't want her son to be alone with his gf (which is a reasonable position, whether I would choose it for my child or not) but the leap to S3X!! AND BABIES!! just because another mom makes a different decision is disturbing.

 

Oh, yes, I do agree with this point. Completely.

[Mosaicmind]

Just to clarify: Yes, gf's mom said to my face that she felt my rules were too strict and when was I going to allow them freedom to do what they wanted. HUH??? I DO NOT control everything he does. They are with each other upwards of 4 days a week; either here at our home or hers or a friends. DS is responsible for what happened on Tuesday but I tried not to get all bent out of shape because when he got to her house and gf's mom was not there it really wasn't his fault. I did tell him I hope that in the future he would call me and let me know that.

 

He did admit to me that there was one time when they were in her bdrm that things almost got out of hand and if her brother had not come upstairs he doesn't think he would've been able to control himself. I told him I appreciated him telling me and that is why we have that rule; to protect him---not to control him. He agreed.

 

I appreciate all the differing views on this thread and the insight that some of you have shared. The one thing this has made me see is that I am not wrong for expecting this and that there are going to be parents who don't agree with me but we can still get along and make things work.

[LibraryLover]

Or a barn. We have a barn. ;) And acreage. It's more about communication etc

 

I guess I'm just not sure, in all honesty, why a bedroom with an open door is somehow more tempting of a place than, say, a family room the kids are in alone or a basement or any other room in the house where the kids are alone together. Or being in the yard alone. Or the car. Basically, I don't get why a bedroom is seen as somehow fundamentally different from other places, especially given that we're talking about the door being open and other people being home. If the idea is that the kids shouldn't be left alone unsupervised in any room, okay, but I don't see why being alone unsupervised in the bedroom with the door open would hold more of a temptation than being alone unsupervised anywhere else in the house. If anything, I'd think that the kids might be extra-cautious in the bedroom, since they'd figure somebody would be checking up on them.

 

I'm also not sure at all why anybody would think that a parent who allows their child to have a boyfriend/girlfriend in their room with the door open and somebody in the house doesn't care if the child gets pregnant. That's a leap I'm not seeing. If this girl's mom was allowing them to have sleepovers in the bedroom and not caring what they did all night, I might agree, but allowing the bedroom to be a place where they can hang out doesn't mean that at all.