Karen Carr the midwife accepts plea deal

[kalanamak]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/midwife-pleads-guilty-to-felonies-in-death-of-alexandria-newborn/2011/05/05/AFetRQ2F_story.html

 

 

Having a stuck baby for 20 minutes and then, after birth, waiting 13 more before calling 911 perhaps hurt her case.

[SonshineLearner]

Well, as someone who had a midwife, who made a mistake with the same ending... (in a hospital, mind you) I can see that there should be some liability. There's a balance. You have a baby inside, it needs to come out. Although, I know some believe that it's the mom's choice... and well... (especially) with abortion legal... perhaps it is. It's confusing. Some people would rather let "nature take it's course" than have a c-section. So... was it the midwife's "fault" or the couple for asking for a "risky" delivery?? A combination??

This might be an interesting thread. (BTW, the midwife I had.. is still practicing... still see her round... doesn't deliver anymore... but works in the midwifery clinic.)

[kchara]

Wow, that's a really long time to have a baby stuck. And then not to have someone call 911 right away, maybe as she was trying to help him? I'm very pro-homebirth, pro-midwife, but I think she did the right thing by taking the deal.

[AngelBee]

:(

[AngelBee]

Well, as someone who had a midwife, who made a mistake with the same ending... (in a hospital, mind you) I can see that there should be some liability. There's a balance. You have a baby inside, it needs to come out. Although, I know some believe that it's the mom's choice... and well... (especially) with abortion legal... perhaps it is. It's confusing. Some people would rather let "nature take it's course" than have a c-section. So... was it the midwife's "fault" or the couple for asking for a "risky" delivery?? A combination??

This might be an interesting thread. (BTW, the midwife I had.. is still practicing... still see her round... doesn't deliver anymore... but works in the midwifery clinic.)

You lost a child due to complications? :(

 

:grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

Hindsight is always 20/20. I KNOW Karen and she simply does NOT mess around if a baby or mother is in danger. Baby's head was stuck for 20 min in birth canal...so what if she called 911 after a minute, 2 minutes? What could untrained EMS workers do that she couldn't? They are NOT trained in childbirth! We had called an abmo during my last delivery b/c I was bleeding during labor and Karen was concerned. They got there as I was pushing and looked utterly and completely clueless as to what to do. One of them looked at Karen and asked, "You got this?" and she rolled her eyes and said. "yes". They stuck around "just in case", chatting in my living room. Anyway, as for trying to revive baby for 13 min. before calling 911...Karen's main focus was that baby. Why isn't anyone questioning why the FATHER of the child didn't call 911? It makes my stomach turn that Karen had to plead guilty to these charges, but she did it to save those parents more grief and pain having to go through a long trial, etc. Wow...I'm sorry. I didn't mean to go on like that. Karen is like family to me and I can't stand hearing her name dragged through the mud.

[SonshineLearner]

You lost a child due to complications? :(

 

:grouphug:

 

No, sorry, didn't explain well. My midwife, within a year of when I had my son.... had a baby die because of risks she took. She made multiple mistakes... one.. after another....

 

Sad... and was totally needless.

[AngelBee]

No, sorry, didn't explain well. My midwife, within a year of when I had my son.... had a baby die because of risks she took. She made multiple mistakes... one.. after another....

 

Sad... and was totally needless.

Oh...k...that makes sense. I am tired and maybe am not reading clearly. :)

[Sue G in PA]

Carrie, I must have posted as you were...I'm so sorry if you lost a child in similar circumstances. :grouphug: My post was not in response to yours.

[AngelBee]

Hindsight is always 20/20. I KNOW Karen and she simply does NOT mess around if a baby or mother is in danger. Baby's head was stuck for 20 min in birth canal...so what if she called 911 after a minute, 2 minutes? What could untrained EMS workers do that she couldn't? They are NOT trained in childbirth! We had called an abmo during my last delivery b/c I was bleeding during labor and Karen was concerned. They got there as I was pushing and looked utterly and completely clueless as to what to do. One of them looked at Karen and asked, "You got this?" and she rolled her eyes and said. "yes". They stuck around "just in case", chatting in my living room. Anyway, as for trying to revive baby for 13 min. before calling 911...Karen's main focus was that baby. Why isn't anyone questioning why the FATHER of the child didn't call 911? It makes my stomach turn that Karen had to plead guilty to these charges, but she did it to save those parents more grief and pain having to go through a long trial, etc. Wow...I'm sorry. I didn't mean to go on like that. Karen is like family to me and I can't stand hearing her name dragged through the mud.

:grouphug: And :iagree:

[SonshineLearner]

Hindsight is always 20/20. What could untrained EMS workers do that she couldn't? They are NOT trained in childbirth! We had called an abmo during my last delivery b/c I was bleeding during labor and Karen was concerned. They got there as I was pushing and looked utterly and completely clueless as to what to do. One of them looked at Karen and asked, "You got this?" and she rolled her eyes and said. "yes". They stuck around "just in case", chatting in my living room.

 

So, just wondering... looking back you don't think they should have had you all on the way to the hospital? See, I like births that are more natural, too. And yet, at a certain point, I want medical intervention. Where the line is, is perhaps hard to know... but I think it's there.

 

:(

[Sue G in PA]

Ugh..again! OK...now I understand. Geesh..must get to bed!

[SonshineLearner]

And I'm sorry for you Sue, as she's close to your heart.....

[AngelBee]

So, just wondering... looking back you don't think they should have had you all on the way to the hospital? See, I like births that are more natural, too. And yet, at a certain point, I want medical intervention. Where the line is, is perhaps hard to know... but I think it's there.

 

:(

I think what freaks me out is who gets to decide that point?

 

I want to be the one to make those decisions for myself.

[Sue G in PA]

Carrie, long story. When Karen arrived, I was in the tub and the water was, um, "dirty" from um...well...you know what happens when you are pushing. :tongue_smilie: She thought it was meconium. That, coupled with the bleeding and not getting a good read on baby's heartrate b/c I was in the water, was cause for concern and she had dh call 911. In the time it took for them to get there, she was able to get a strong heartbeat and my son was already on his way out. EMS stuck around to make sure baby was ok...and he was. No reason for transport. I wasn't there in Alexandria that night and so I don't know all the facts. I am going to speak to Karen tomorrow and now that it is all over I'm hoping to hear it all from her.

[scrappyhappymama]

Anyway, as for trying to revive baby for 13 min. before calling 911...Karen's main focus was that baby.

 

This makes sense to me. One of my sons was unresponsive and not breathing at birth, and my midwife was able to revive him. But it took a full five minutes for him to breathe on his own (we have it all on video, and we timed it from the video). No one called 911 in our case because they were all completely focused on reviving my son- midwife was pumping air into his lungs, monitrice was monitoring his heart rate and stimulating him, and my husband was talking to our baby to stimulate him audibly. They did not stop until he began breathing on his own.

 

IF he did not eventually start to breath on his own, or IF his other vital signs worsened, then I'm sure someone would have made the call. And IF, God forbid, my son had not been able to be revived, there is no way I would have faulted my midwife for trying to save his life. She is a professional, and is right there, and that is certainly of greater benefit than calling a paramedic who will not arrive during those first few crucial minutes.

 

I have no idea the specific circumstances of this case. But I can certainly imagine a scenario in which the midwife worked in good faith to try to revive the baby, and then called 911 once it appeared her efforts were in vain. The sad fact is that sometimes babies die in childbirth, even today, and even in hospitals with every conceivable technology available.

 

I have no problem with doctors or midwives been held accountable for true malpractice, but I do have a problem (in general, again do not know the specifics of this case) with midwives being held to a higher accountability than their hospital counterparts, simply because they are not practicing in a hospital setting. If this baby had died in the hospital, would the attending physician have been held criminally liable?

[gaillardia]

Thanks for posting this link. After the huge rift recently about this story, midwives, homebirths, etc., the court case sort of got lost. I couldn't imagine her having to serve time.

Karen was my mw once. I'm grateful I had that option.;)

I'm grateful nothing happened, but I didn't think anything would happen except I was going to have a healthy baby.

I also lived three minutes from the hospital.

Mission accomplished. I would not mind having a baby in a hospital if they would just not induce, just not give epidurals, not make it hurt so bad with induction that you want an epidural, if they wouldn't perform episiotomies, if they wouldn't treat every mother like she might have VD and they have to give all babies eye ointment.

[joannqn]

I have no idea the specific circumstances of this case. But I can certainly imagine a scenario in which the midwife worked in good faith to try to revive the baby, and then called 911 once it appeared her efforts were in vain. The sad fact is that sometimes babies die in childbirth, even today, and even in hospitals with every conceivable technology available.

 

I have no problem with doctors or midwives been held accountable for true malpractice, but I do have a problem (in general, again do not know the specifics of this case) with midwives being held to a higher accountability than their hospital counterparts, simply because they are not practicing in a hospital setting. If this baby had died in the hospital, would the attending physician have been held criminally liable?

 

:iagree:

 

I'm sorry about the whole stinking mess.

 

 

And about EMS...I have a friend who's baby came too quick for the midwife to arrive. She's a doula, and she had a doula friend with her so they weren't panicked at all. MIL, however, freaked out and called EMS without my friend's permission. She told them to leave but they told her they had to stay since they were called out. They ended up standing in the closet (between the master bedroom and the bathroom) and watching my friend and her friend deliver the baby themselves before she was finally able to make them leave.

[Elizabeth in WA]

My second child, first homebirth, was in distress after crowning. No one even thought to call 911 as the focus was on resolving the situation. My midwife told me that his head had to be born on the next contraction and insisted that i could do it. My young gymnast shows no signs of suffering from the experience (apparent inability to learn history not withstanding... he can learn content areas he is interested in just fine :001_huh: )

 

All the same, I have serious concerns about agreeing to deliver a first born breech at home to a 43 year old. Noone I looked into at the time would have been willing to do so. In fact, no midwife I interviewed was willing to deliver first born breeches at all, and second+ borns only in offices also associated with physicians and more equipment than they carried. (And my midwife carried oxygen and pitocin to homebirths.)

[happypamama]

It sounded like Karen ended up with a fairly light sentence, unless I was reading it wrong (it was late; I might have misread), which is good, right? Though it may have hurt her reputation, and I'm sorry for that. She doesn't sound inexperienced -- didn't the article say she'd handled 40-50 breech births? It may or may not have been a wise decision, but it doesn't sound like it was made lightly. Mistake or not, sometimes things go wrong.

[unsinkable]

Isn't the first thing you learn in CPR is to tell someone on to call 9-1-1?

 

If the family had a landline, someone could have dialed 911 and left the line open and yelled into it while the call was traced.

[snickelfritz]

Why isn't anyone questioning why the FATHER of the child didn't call 911?

 

It was her(the medical professional's) job to tell someone to call 911. In learning CPR, one of the first things you are supposed to do (before starting) is yell at someone to call 911.

[snickelfritz]

You beat me to it..

Isn't the first thing you learn in CPR is to tell someone on to call 9-1-1?

 

If the family had a landline, someone could have dialed 911 and left the line open and yelled into it while the call was traced.

 

Do midwives not normally have some sort of assistant? Some other adult in the vicinity that she just had to say "Call 911."

[Impish]

Isn't the first thing you learn in CPR is to tell someone on to call 9-1-1?

 

If the family had a landline, someone could have dialed 911 and left the line open and yelled into it while the call was traced.

That's what I was taught. Even to the point that if its an adult victim you call first THEN start CPR. Children get CPR for a bit, then stop, make the call, restart...if there's nobody around to call for you.

[unsinkable]

You beat me to it..

Do midwives not normally have some sort of assistant? Some other adult in the vicinity that she just had to say "Call 911."

 

Even in a hospital, if you come across a patient who needs resuscitation, you take the time to call a code. You don't just work on the patient all by yourself.

[kchara]

In any basic first aid class (at least the one's I've taken), they teach you not only to call 911, but if you're the one doing the reviving, to assign the task to someone specific. You look at one particular person and say, "YOU, call 911." If you just shout it out, emotions get involved and it's possible no one ends up doing it. It sounds like that's probably what happened here. :( It's sad, all the way around.

[Tammyla]

Thank you for linking the update.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/midwife-pleads-guilty-to-felonies-in-death-of-alexandria-newborn/2011/05/05/AFetRQ2F_story.html

 

 

Having a stuck baby for 20 minutes and then, after birth, waiting 13 more before calling 911 perhaps hurt her case.

[happypamama]

You beat me to it..

 

 

Do midwives not normally have some sort of assistant? Some other adult in the vicinity that she just had to say "Call 911."

 

Depends on the MW. Some do, some don't. It's not uncommon for them not to have an assistant. My MW might or might not have an assistant/apprentice with her at a birth -- depends on what else is going on, who else is in labor, whether her oldest child (who is one of her assistants/apprentices) is needed to watch her younger children, etc. The CNMs I've used all had requirements for having assistants, but they also were large group practices with plenty of MWs to handle other births and things at the same time (and nurses/assistants separate from the other MWs), but a CPM like Karen might not have a lot of backup coverage. Maybe she did tell someone to call 911, but maybe Dad was scared to leave Mom or maybe it looked like the baby would be okay, or something. It is very unfortunate and really, really sad all around, and I'm sure Karen will live with the "what ifs" for the rest of her life.

[Jennifer3141]

I am so torn on medical stuff like this. I don't know where to come down! So much of it is judgment and it has to be such QUICK judgment.

 

My first thought is that you simply don't practice medicine in a state you are not licensed in. That's a HUGE no-no. Any medical professional should know better. Bad, dumb mistake.

 

However, our ability to give birth in a safe way of our choosing in this country is under seige. My DH did some locums work at a hospital last year in a town that had NO OB care whatsoever. The nearest hospital was an hour and a half away. My first child would have died in that time had I lived there and birthed her there. People could theoretically go to that hospital's ER but I can attest that if you don't have some serious training in that particular region, you should probably just get the heck out.

 

(I kicked a resident in the head while in labor with DD because he didn't know what he was doing and I had HAD IT with him. lol)

 

So great, women in that area have an ER but you aren't going to find anyone worth a dime who can competently handle a birth complication, let alone 2, 3 or 4 in a row. It's utterly terrifying when you think about it. Are we just going to tell the rural living women in our country to suck it when it comes to birth? (And the big cities have problems getting enough qualified people too so they aren't that much better off.)

 

Also, every medical profesisonal has to make choices every second of every day. Perhaps this midwife had seen almost the exact same scenario work right for her 30 times in the past so she followed her own protocol. A different medical professional would have chosen differently and that might have caused a catastrophic outcome the other way. Who knows?

 

I watch and listen to my DH decide stuff all the time. Do you go with an antibiotic that is incredibly strong that has a better chance of destroying a staph infection faster and thus cause less tissue damage? What if you factor in that that anitbiotic tends to damage kidneys after its use? What's better? Watching an infection spread or dying from kidney failure?

 

And what about just plain old mistakes? Everyone makes mistakes. I agree that medical professionals should be held to the highest standard but who here hasn't made a mistake? Heck, I've made at least three already today and I'm just a SAHM.

 

It just makes me cringe everytime I see something about this story because we NEED midwives. We need people who stand up for women and babies against a medical system that can sometimes be utterly insane. and I had MDs for my births. I still see the absolute value of midwives in the system. And I'm not fond of witch hunts either. I don't have enough expertise to tell which scenario this is. This midwife seems to have a lot of people who respect and love her though.

[A.D.]

I have no problem saying that I am very disappointed in the plea agreement. This woman's arrogance and illegal behavior contributed to the death of an innocent child, and the sentence she has received is laughable.

[ktgrok]

I am so torn on medical stuff like this. I don't know where to come down! So much of it is judgment and it has to be such QUICK judgment.

 

My first thought is that you simply don't practice medicine in a state you are not licensed in. That's a HUGE no-no. Any medical professional should know better. Bad, dumb mistake.

 

However, our ability to give birth in a safe way of our choosing in this country is under seige. My DH did some locums work at a hospital last year in a town that had NO OB care whatsoever. The nearest hospital was an hour and a half away. My first child would have died in that time had I lived there and birthed her there. People could theoretically go to that hospital's ER but I can attest that if you don't have some serious training in that particular region, you should probably just get the heck out.

 

(I kicked a resident in the head while in labor with DD because he didn't know what he was doing and I had HAD IT with him. lol)

 

So great, women in that area have an ER but you aren't going to find anyone worth a dime who can competently handle a birth complication, let alone 2, 3 or 4 in a row. It's utterly terrifying when you think about it. Are we just going to tell the rural living women in our country to suck it when it comes to birth? (And the big cities have problems getting enough qualified people too so they aren't that much better off.)

 

Also, every medical profesisonal has to make choices every second of every day. Perhaps this midwife had seen almost the exact same scenario work right for her 30 times in the past so she followed her own protocol. A different medical professional would have chosen differently and that might have caused a catastrophic outcome the other way. Who knows?

 

I watch and listen to my DH decide stuff all the time. Do you go with an antibiotic that is incredibly strong that has a better chance of destroying a staph infection faster and thus cause less tissue damage? What if you factor in that that anitbiotic tends to damage kidneys after its use? What's better? Watching an infection spread or dying from kidney failure?

 

And what about just plain old mistakes? Everyone makes mistakes. I agree that medical professionals should be held to the highest standard but who here hasn't made a mistake? Heck, I've made at least three already today and I'm just a SAHM.

 

It just makes me cringe everytime I see something about this story because we NEED midwives. We need people who stand up for women and babies against a medical system that can sometimes be utterly insane. and I had MDs for my births. I still see the absolute value of midwives in the system. And I'm not fond of witch hunts either. I don't have enough expertise to tell which scenario this is. This midwife seems to have a lot of people who respect and love her though.

 

:iagree:

[Jennifer3141]

If this baby had died in the hospital, would the attending physician have been held criminally liable?

 

Herein lies a big part of the problem, everyone knows a dead baby is an instant malpractice case no matter where it happens.

 

The case may not have any merit. And there are exceptions to the rule (for instance, if everyone agreed that the baby was dead before delivery, etc. etc.) But without a doubt, a dead baby means a lawyer will get involved. You don't even have to contact one - they will find you!

 

I'm sure in the back of this midwife's grief at the loss of this baby was also a big, "Oh $#@$~#@! I'm going to get sued!"

 

I sometimes think we have lost the ability in the US to just have bad stuff happen. We have to blame SOMEONE all the time. Sometimes babies die. Sometimes teenagers do too. It's awful. But not everyone gets 98 joy filled years on the planet. If a medical professional does something deliberate to take someone's life (barring medicial suicide IMO), then we should slap them silly. But if it's just one of those random death things, I think we as a society should mourn it but accept it.

[A.D.]

I have no problem saying that I am very disappointed in the plea agreement. This woman's arrogance and illegal behavior contributed to the death of an innocent child, and the sentence she has received is laughable.

[Jennifer3141]

I have no problem saying that I am very disappointed in the plea agreement. This woman's arrogance and illegal behavior contributed to the death of an innocent child, and the sentence she has received is laughable.

 

Uh, in stereo?? :001_smile:

[AngelBee]

I have no problem saying that I am very disappointed in the plea agreement. This woman's arrogance and illegal behavior contributed to the death of an innocent child, and the sentence she has received is laughable.

I strongly disagree.

 

I think it is sad that we have to find someone to blame.

 

I am a homebirthing mama. It is MY responsibility to make choice for MY birth and MY child.

 

Crap happens sometimes that is unpreventable. I am prepared for that by my choice to birth at home.

 

Sadly, babies die. They die in the womb. They die at hospitals. They die at home. It is a horrifying truth of life. :(

 

I am resposible to take that information and make a decision for my family.

 

These are humans. I almost died twice during birth with an OB. It wasn't his fault. He followed what he had done for nearly 40 years of practice. I researched and learned a better way for my family.

 

Did I sue because of the complications I endured? No. I forgave him for being human :)

[Shellydon]

Hindsight is always 20/20. I KNOW Karen and she simply does NOT mess around if a baby or mother is in danger. Baby's head was stuck for 20 min in birth canal...so what if she called 911 after a minute, 2 minutes? What could untrained EMS workers do that she couldn't? They are NOT trained in childbirth! We had called an abmo during my last delivery b/c I was bleeding during labor and Karen was concerned. They got there as I was pushing and looked utterly and completely clueless as to what to do. One of them looked at Karen and asked, "You got this?" and she rolled her eyes and said. "yes". They stuck around "just in case", chatting in my living room. Anyway, as for trying to revive baby for 13 min. before calling 911...Karen's main focus was that baby. Why isn't anyone questioning why the FATHER of the child didn't call 911? It makes my stomach turn that Karen had to plead guilty to these charges, but she did it to save those parents more grief and pain having to go through a long trial, etc. Wow...I'm sorry. I didn't mean to go on like that. Karen is like family to me and I can't stand hearing her name dragged through the mud.

 

So you think she made no mistakes in this instance?

[AngelBee]

I sometimes think we have lost the ability in the US to just have bad stuff happen. We have to blame SOMEONE all the time. Sometimes babies die. Sometimes teenagers do too. It's awful. But not everyone gets 98 joy filled years on the planet. If a medical professional does something deliberate to take someone's life (barring medicial suicide IMO), then we should slap them silly. But if it's just one of those random death things, I think we as a society should mourn it but accept it.

:iagree:

[AngelBee]

So you think she made no mistakes in this instance?

Not if she was following mother's request. (In my opinion)

[Caraway]

Isn't the first thing you learn in CPR is to tell someone on to call 9-1-1?

 

If the family had a landline, someone could have dialed 911 and left the line open and yelled into it while the call was traced.

 

 

Actually I just took a newborn CPR class in the NICU and the official recommendation is to try to help the newborn FIRST and THEN call 911. The first few minutes are too important to using them calling.

[AngelBee]

Actually I just took a newborn CPR class in the NICU and the official recommendation is to try to help the newborn FIRST and THEN call 911. The first few minutes are too important to using them calling.

I swear that is what I was told too.

[snickelfritz]

Actually I just took a newborn CPR class in the NICU and the official recommendation is to try to help the newborn FIRST and THEN call 911. The first few minutes are too important to using them calling.

 

Yeah, but she waited 13 minutes.

 

I still don't understand why she didn't utilize another adult to make the call, while she kept working on the baby. I would assume that she makes sure that there is another adult available, even if not an assistant. It takes her less than 2 seconds to yell "Call 911." And if a baby needs CPR, isn't that an indication that they need to end up at a hospital......even if her efforts are successful?

[unsinkable]

Actually I just took a newborn CPR class in the NICU and the official recommendation is to try to help the newborn FIRST and THEN call 911. The first few minutes are too important to using them calling.

 

I swear that is what I was told too.

 

And I seem to recall that there are different instructions/guidelines depending upon whether you are alone or not.

 

Yeah, but she waited 13 minutes.

 

I still don't understand why she didn't utilize another adult to make the call, while she kept working on the baby. I would assume that she makes sure that there is another adult available, even if not an assistant. It takes her less than 2 seconds to yell "Call 911." And if a baby needs CPR, isn't that an indication that they need to end up at a hospital......even if her efforts are successful?

 

:iagree:

 

ETA: This baby truly could have been oxygen deprived for the 20 minutes of being stuck plus the 13 minutes of resusitation. And once the baby was out and needing resuscitating, wouldn't the MW have factored in that idea?

Edited May 6, 2011 by unsinkable

[ktgrok]

Yeah, but she waited 13 minutes.

 

I still don't understand why she didn't utilize another adult to make the call, while she kept working on the baby. I would assume that she makes sure that there is another adult available, even if not an assistant. It takes her less than 2 seconds to yell "Call 911." And if a baby needs CPR, isn't that an indication that they need to end up at a hospital......even if her efforts are successful?

 

Agreed, someone else should have called. However, things are different if the baby has a heartbeat but isn't breathing yet, versus has no heartbeat. My daughter took a minute or two to start breathing after birth. She had good color though, and was still getting oxygen from the umbilical cord. The midwife checked the cord every few seconds to make sure it was still pulsing and giving her blood/oxygen, and gave her breaths from an ambu bag, and a bit of blow by oxygen while I stimulated her. She was fine, she just hadn't figured out that she needed to start breathing. I pushed her out VERY quickly once she crowned and she hadn't realized she was out yet, lol. So it wasn an emergency in that it needed to be handled properly, but certainly didn't require going to the hospital. A quick inversion (we do the same wiht newborn puppies, lol) and she started breathing just fine. She is 1 year old and obviously a genius, lol.

 

Now, had there been no heartbeat that would be a TOTALLY different scenario and would have meant going to the hospital ASAP. However that seems like it wouldn't happen if there were good hear tones heard on the doppler in labor/pushing (which we did have).

 

I don't know if this midwife screwed up or not. I do hope that whatever mistakes she made don't effect the rights of other women to homebirth. If an OB messes up we don't make OB's illegal. But when midwife messes up the tendency is to outlaw them, or at least homebirth, all together.

[unsinkable]

I must say that I feel like I am in the pig world. I don't get that people might think it is OK to NOT call 911 for 13 minutes for a newborn that is being resuscitated.

[DesertDweller]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/midwife-pleads-guilty-to-felonies-in-death-of-alexandria-newborn/2011/05/05/AFetRQ2F_story.html

 

 

Having a stuck baby for 20 minutes and then, after birth, waiting 13 more before calling 911 perhaps hurt her case.

 

What ultimately hurt her case is the fact that she wasn't licensed. Regardless of how great a MW she is, she shouldn't have been practicing, IMO. She was skirting the law.

 

And as far as calling 911 at some point, she not only didn't call or direct anyone else to call 911 in that span of 13 minutes, but she didn't make an effort to call them during the 20 minutes when the head was stuck.

 

In a high risk situation, why not be proactive. Even if the baby had finally delivered with no complications, what would be wrong with having an ambulance on the way when it was indicated that things weren't going as well as they should?

[FaithManor]

I don't understand the wisdom of not calling either. DD says that their ALS rigs, which would be called to a home birth, have the necessary equipment to intubate infants and bag them. They can also send, and have sent, a life line helicopter to remote births...these are staffed with an advanced paramedic with lots of years experience and an RN. They have the ability, even in our outlying area, to get an infant and mom to a nicu/ob ward in a matter of a few minutes while bagging the infant and continuing CPR to keep that oxygen circulating.

 

DD has been taught to intubate a preemie down to about 32 weeks in size. I am not certain if they intubate younger than that in the field because of the delicacy of preemie tissue and the difficulty of intubating such tiny tracheas. But, the medical dummies her EMS has for the medics to work on go down to about 8 weeks premature in size. Now this is Michigan and paramedic training here is quite advanced. There may be other states where this is not the case.

 

EMS doesn't mind being called out and waiting around or turning around because the situation has resolved while they were en route. It's just important to get them en route because they carry ALS equipment and drugs that can be used to rescucitate baby and these are resources that the midwife will not have unless she is practicing under the protection of an OBGYN's license.

 

It does not hurt to call. It definitely can hurt to delay. Mom, dad, a sib...someone can call if there is a phone in the house. I guess I'm just shocked that there was such a long delay.

 

Faith

[pfamilygal]

I used to work OB before I got fed up with all the horrible things they do/say to women and switched to ER.

 

I've seen more than one mom and baby die, but one really sticks in my head.

 

We had a mom come in for a c/s because her baby was breech. Baby was delivered and mom threw an amniotic fluid embolism. We worked her for an hour and she still died. Would that mom have been safer delivering at home with a practitioner skilled in breech delivery? AFE's are more common with c/s. Who knows what the outcome would have been.

 

One problem in the US is that so few doctors have actually attended breech births. Few docs know how to do it.

[AngelBee]

I used to work OB before I got fed up with all the horrible things they do/say to women and switched to ER.

 

I've seen more than one mom and baby die, but one really sticks in my head.

 

We had a mom come in for a c/s because her baby was breech. Baby was delivered and mom threw an amniotic fluid embolism. We worked her for an hour and she still died. Would that mom have been safer delivering at home with a practitioner skilled in breech delivery? AFE's are more common with c/s. Who knows what the outcome would have been.

 

One problem in the US is that so few doctors have actually attended breech births. Few docs know how to do it.

:iagree:

 

:grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

I don't know if she made mistakes or not, to answer a pp's question. I wasn't there! Being a human being and fallible, I'm SURE there were mistakes made. What it boils down to is this: This mother WANTED a homebirth...desperately. Why? I don't know. Karen has safely delivered 40-50 breech babies. I'd say that qualifies her to do it. Should she have been practicing in VA w/out a license. No. But out of the goodness of her heart, and not so much the good sense in her head, she decided to help this woman have the homebirth she wanted when nobody else would help her. Karen did not kill this baby. Period. Tragically, this baby died. Some babies do. At home, in hospitals, in birth centers, etc. A pp said the sentence is laughable. Yes, it is. It is laughable b/c she SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO PLEA TO ANYTHING BUT PRACTICING W/OUT A LICENSE! :angry:

[Mom-ninja.]

I get tired of cases that end badly being used to blame midwives. Birth is as safe as life gets. There are no guarantees in life.