Trying again-liberal homeschoolers

[Stacia]

Checking in & saying 'here' again. :001_smile:

[Rivka]

Still here, still liberal, still homeschooling.

 

I took my kindergartener on a field trip to the Maryland State House the day we were hoping to see the marriage equality bill pass. I was hoping she'd get to see history being made; instead, she got to see a little too much of how politics are made.

 

(But we had some interesting discussions! "Mom, that man just said that it takes a man and a woman to make a baby, but can't a doctor..." And she got a lovely, heartfelt letter from an older woman in our church afterward, talking about how much it meant to her to have Alex come and support her family. :001_wub: So it was totally worthwhile.)

 

While we were waiting to be admitted, we saw another family with school-aged kids walk in. I guess I was on autopilot, because I said "Hey, Alex! Other homeschoolers!" before stopping to consider whether they were likely to be glad to see us or not. And indeed: same bill, very different field trips.

[TracyP]

financially liberal in what ways? What if we are financially/fiscally conservative on some things but agree with more liberal social spending?

 

What if I am pro equal rights but pro life?

 

I think I am just an oddity.

 

Dawn

 

:iagree:I would fit in very well on the Island of Misfits.:D

 

Most of the conservatives I know would consider me liberal. Halcyon, you would probably consider me conservative but nevertheless, here I am. :seeya:

[nmoira]

adsum :D

 

Thanks to Google's having cached the first page of the old thread:

 

I am pro-gay marriage, but do not believe marriage is itself a necessary rite of passage.

I do not believe homosexuality is a "choice".

I am a feminist.

I am pro-choice.

I am pro- marijuana legalization.

I am anti-death penalty.

I believe in religious freedom, everywhere, all the time, and for all people, right up until the point someone thinks their beliefs are sufficient to limit my freedom or rights.

I strongly support universal healthcare, but am lukewarm about the current plant.

[Lady Florida.]

Still here. Still liberal. Still a homeschooling family.

 

I was reading the updates in that thread, and had only one page to go. As I clicked on that last page, the thread went poof! That's when I remembered someone in another thread talking about how you view threads. I'm think going to use print view from now on.

[JudoMom]

I appreciate your explanation, even I disagree with your approach. I think that politics, by its very nature and whether one uses the words "Democrat" or "Republican" is bound, in a free-speaking society, to lead to discussions, sometimes heated. And regardless of whether specific discussion of political parties is allowed or not, even IDEAS get people very, very hot under the collar. I guess in the end, I'm unclear on what it is the prohibition on mentioning particular political parties is mean to prevent: heated discussion? hurt feelings? divisiveness? I think in any free-speaking society that will happen on occasion, regardless. After all, most people know that when you start talking gay and transgender rights, pro-choice, and religious freedom you're not talking about conservative Christian Republicans. ;) That's why the drawing of any line, in my opinion, is going to backfire.

 

Of course, this is only my opinion, and I will bow out of the discussion at this point.

 

Politics on this board get downright nasty, which results in the moderators getting lambasted with complaints. Seriously, the discussions get B.A.D. on here--they make any of the Ham threads look like sunshine and roses.

[5forMe]

A homeschooler who generally supports socially and/or financially liberal political policies. Which, in the US, tends to mean a pro-marriage equality, pro-equal rights, pro-choice sort of stance.

 

 

 

I am in support of all of these things however I don't agree with "liberal" spending and don't vote "liberally". What does that make me?

 

I haven't read ALL replies yet, but I am confused as to how we can have a thread titled "Liberal Homeschoolers" which according to the definition above is all about politics, but not have the conversation turn political. :001_huh:

[ondreeuh]

Honestly, if the board gets contentious then I just want to leave. If people want to fight they can do it over email, but I want the board to be something that unites, not divides, us.

[tntgoodwin]

How do you define "liberal"?

[ocelotmom]

I am in support of all of these things however I don't agree with "liberal" spending and don't vote "liberally". What does that make me?

 

I haven't read ALL replies yet, but I am confused as to how we can have a thread titled "Liberal Homeschoolers" which according to the definition above is all about politics, but not have the conversation turn political. :001_huh:

 

Personally, I would consider someone who is socially liberal but financially conservative to qualify as liberal for the purpose of postings such as this, as the point is often more about people feeling out of place for having a socially liberal viewpoint. In the previous post, there were several people who identified that way.

 

But it's all about self-identification, really. I'm not the World Liberal Decider :)

[AngelBee]

Politics on this board get downright nasty, which results in the moderators getting lambasted with complaints. Seriously, the discussions get B.A.D. on here--they make any of the Ham threads look like sunshine and roses.

That is so ironic to me. This should be a place to discuss ideas and such openly.

 

It baffles me how it can turn into such a cat fight. :confused:

 

Not liberal, but in full support of my beautiful liberal homeschooling sisters! :)

[Slartibartfast]

I'm a Moderate

 

Hi!

[tntgoodwin]

Personally, I would consider someone who is socially liberal but financially conservative to qualify as liberal for the purpose of postings such as this, as the point is often more about people feeling out of place for having a socially liberal viewpoint. In the previous post, there were several people who identified that way.

 

But it's all about self-identification, really. I'm not the World Liberal Decider :)

 

See, I tried to start a thread to help us figure out these labels. It didn't go so well. Personally, I would say someone who is socially liberal but financially conservative to be a libertarian. :D

[tntgoodwin]

I would say I am personally conservative but socially liberal...does that make sense? I also believe my personal conservative values are mine alone and don't need to be regulated or forced onto others. So...I think I fit in better with liberals!

 

I also enjoy and appreciate "heated" discussions where each party presents a respectful (if passionate) and well-defended viewpoint.

 

Although "heated" can often devolve into malicious and individually attacking, I don't believe it has to.

 

You sound like a libertarian to me!

[Peek a Boo]

It is worth it:001_smile:

I am here and present and accounted for:D

 

I think it is important to show the diversity in homeschooling:001_smile:

 

while I am not a liberal homeschooler, I will chime in and say it IS worth it and it IS important to show the diversity in homeschooling.

 

I moderate a secular yahoogroup that is 100% inclusive. the key words I put on the page are designed to scare off anyone that thinks this is a Christian-only or conservative-only group.

 

While I am Christian, and generally conservative [w/ a heavy leaning to libertarian], we homeschool for secular reasons, and many of my own ideas wrt politics/ religion tend to leave me out of many circles:

 

100% pro-life [anti-death penalty regardless the age of the human]

pro-equal rights [dump any secular "marriage" definition]

fiscally conservative

not debating the YE/OE thing or baptism/communion issue

 

I've received heated emails from local homeschoolers baffled as to why a Christian could even consider starting such an 'ungodly' group, and we've had churches refuse to let us meet. So we're just a very active networking group that has classes at the library, parks, and via 4-H.

I gotta say, 4-H has opened a LOT of doors for us...

 

anyway, YES, I think it is worth it to speak up and be counted. :)

 

and to answer the other question that came up, "labels" are just shorthand for learning about people. They are a starting place, not a definition of the whole person. I appreciate it when people introduce themselves with some descriptives... it lets me know what is important to THEM.

[Shawna in Texas]

adsum :D

 

Thanks to Google's having cached the first page of the old thread:

 

I am pro-gay marriage, but do not believe marriage is itself a necessary rite of passage.

I do not believe homosexuality is a "choice".

I am a feminist.

I am pro-choice.

I am pro- marijuana legalization.

I am anti-death penalty.

I believe in religious freedom, everywhere, all the time, and for all people, right up until the point someone thinks their beliefs are sufficient to limit my freedom or rights.

I strongly support universal healthcare, but am lukewarm about the current plant.

 

I agree with Moira 100%

 

And I really hope it wasn't me that got the last thread deleted. I really am sorry if I did.

[Wheres Toto]

Definite liberal in a definite liberal part of the country.

 

Pro-choice

Pro-anyone can marry

Pro-something to make our healthcare system better

Pro-legalization of marjuana with further study for health/medical benefits.

 

My stance on most things is -to each his own/whatever works for you.

[Rosie_0801]

:iagree:I would fit in very well on the Island of Misfits.:D

 

What! I'm totally offended! It is politically correct to call it Australia.

 

 

I am in support of all of these things however I don't agree with "liberal" spending and don't vote "liberally". What does that make me?

 

Human?

 

Rosie

[Perry]

:seeya:

I'm here.

 

Socially liberal.

Pro-evidence where it's possible. I'm not an idealogue when it comes to public policy. I want to know what works to make this world a better place for all of us. Does legalizing marijuana hurt more people or help them, for example.

[leeannpal]

I would say I am personally conservative but socially liberal...does that make sense? I also believe my personal conservative values are mine alone and don't need to be regulated or forced onto others. So...I think I fit in better with liberals!

 

I also enjoy and appreciate "heated" discussions where each party presents a respectful (if passionate) and well-defended viewpoint.

 

Although "heated" can often devolve into malicious and individually attacking, I don't believe it has to.

 

Great post! I've often felt that I don't fit in neatly with any of the current labels out there.

[redsquirrel]

I think it is important to acknowledge the diversity in any group. For example, I live a life where I know a lot of non-homeschoolers. I am almost always the first real live homeschooler they have ever met. These people are lawyers and real estate agents and college professors (lots of those) and school teachers and therapists (I know a lot of those as well) and military people. I get a lot of the socialization questions and all the others. They almost always come from a place of genuine curiosity.

 

What strikes me is that they have a picture of homeschooling that is so far from my picture of homeschooling. They hear homeschooler and they think ultra conservative christian whose kids aren't getting a very good education. That was how my military lawyer SIL described it. And that was after she assured my ILs that being in the military she knows all about homeschooling. Yeah, thanks :glare: That really made our life easier.

 

I like being able to tell people that the homeschooling community looks like America. I like being able to reassure my lesbian homeschooling friends (I know more than 3 couples that also homeschool) that they are prob NOT the only lesbian homeschoolers in America. I like being able to tell my former co-worker that yes there are Muslim homeschoolers out there. And I like being able to tell my more liberal homeschooling friends that if you go to TWTM forums and ask about a math program, you will get helpful answers from the nice people.

[elfgivas]

:seeya:

 

Still here.

 

Still liberal.

 

:)

 

:iagree:

[Jennifer3141]

Still here too.

 

Still a flaming liberal.

 

Still homeschooling. :D

[Caitilin]

You sound like a libertarian to me!

 

Not that I speak for her, but I sure don't qualify as a libertarian.:lol::lol::lol:

[keptwoman]

Politics on this board get downright nasty, which results in the moderators getting lambasted with complaints. Seriously, the discussions get B.A.D. on here--they make any of the Ham threads look like sunshine and roses.

:iagree: And I am very grateful for the politics ban. Politics took over the board before they were banned, and I did not like the nastiness.

[Mrs Mungo]

See, I tried to start a thread to help us figure out these labels. It didn't go so well. Personally, I would say someone who is socially liberal but financially conservative to be a libertarian. :D

 

The libertarian party would disagree.

 

Most people who are socially liberal are pro-choice, pro-pathway to citizenship, pro-government health care, pro-social programs, pro-government help for college, pro-government controlling social security, in favor of some sort of gun control (for example: I'm in favor of banning private ownership of high capacity clips, armor piercing bullets and assault rifles), pro-environmental controls. The libertarian party is against all of those things.

 

What do you think being socially liberal means? I can't see that they have anything in common other than wanting to legalize pot and to maintain a free internet (and *some* of them are pro-gay marriage).

Edited April 6, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[tntgoodwin]

When I think social issues, I think of abortion, immigratio, gay marriage, drugs, etc. Things like the government paying for college for people and government run health care I consider to be fiscal issues.

Edited April 6, 2011 by tntgoodwin

[Mrs Mungo]

When I think social issues, I think of abortion, gay marriage, drugs, etc. Things like the government paying for college for people I consider a fiscal issue.

 

Most prominent libertarians (like Ron Paul) are pro-life (the party says one thing, their candidates say something else).

 

Guns? Environment? Pathway to citizenship? The military (most libertarians and the libertarian party want to eliminate our military, replacing it with a missile defense system and relying on the National Guard/Reserves for domestic needs)? Public schools (something else the party wants to eliminate)? Where do you place those?

 

Source for the last, because a lot of people don't believe it.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[tntgoodwin]

Keep in mind there is a difference between Libertarian (the party) and libertarian (the philosophy).

Ron Paul, for example, is a libertarian Republican (though he did run on the LP party ticket in 1988).

[Mother Superior]

Okay, I'm not a liberal homeschooler according to that defination---but I'm in a minority in my neck of the woods!

 

I do feel pretty liberal compared to many Christian homeschoolers I run into though I consider myself Christian--most do not consider me a Christian.

 

You must live near me. Can we be Not Christian Enough together??? :D

 

ETA: Just took a quick look at your blog and realized right away that you are Mormon. I am not Mormon, but many of my family members are (in fact, my nephew just got back from his mission). I am Catholic, so I still don't fit the definition of "Christian" that many hold. What a sad state of affairs when some who profess Christ will point fingers at others and question their christianity.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Mother Superior

[Mrs Mungo]

Keep in mind there is a difference between Libertarian (the party) and libertarian (the philosophy).

Ron Paul, for example, is a libertarian Republican (though he did run on the LP party ticket in 1988).

 

Can you name a prominent proponent of the libertarian philosophy who agrees with a standing national military? Or a pathway to citizenship? Or favors gun control? These are just a few of the major differences between the two philosophies of libertarian and social liberal. Maybe some of the people you know who define themselves as libertarian haven't fully thought out the implications and are really social liberals?

[suzybluecheese]

I do remember meeting a guy YEARS ago who was a staunch libertarian. He characterized his ideal America as "the wild west." I assume he didn't mean it literally, of course. I can't tell you if that sums up most libertarians.

[Peek a Boo]

Can you name a prominent proponent of the libertarian philosophy who agrees with a standing national military? Or a pathway to citizenship? Or favors gun control? These are just a few of the major differences between the two philosophies of libertarian and social liberal. Maybe some of the people you know who define themselves as libertarian haven't fully thought out the implications and are really social liberals?

 

Not that I'm a prominent Libertarian, but....

I agree w/ a pathway to citizenship. We have it. It's called Legal Immigration. ;)

If you want to discuss AMNESTY for ILLEGAL aliens you might want to rephrase "pathway to citizenship."

[tntgoodwin]

Also, many libertarians want open borders.

 

Mrs. Mungo, as far as your other questions, I don't want to further derail this thread. I will get back to you fairly soon on that. This is why I tried starting that other thread that you were so opposed to. Different people have different ideas of what liberal or conservative is, and what is a social issue and what is a fiscal issue.

 

And what do you mean by " some of the people you know who define themselves as libertarian haven't fully thought out the implications and are really social liberals?"

[ocelotmom]

And what do you mean by " some of the people you know who define themselves as libertarian haven't fully thought out the implications and are really social liberals?"

I'm not the person you were asking, but I've seen people who are in favor of abolishing government schools who have no suggestion whatosever about what to do with all the kids who would suddenly be left with no source of education or supervision during the day.

 

Or the person who doesn't consider that the person without adequate access to preventative healthcare and early treatment may come in contact with them, and may be carrying some disease that they haven't had treated due to lack of ability to pay that you really don't want to catch.

Edited April 7, 2011 by ocelotmom

[KarenNC]

Liberal, per most folks' definition.

[Amie]

Politics on this board get downright nasty, which results in the moderators getting lambasted with complaints. Seriously, the discussions get B.A.D. on here--they make any of the Ham threads look like sunshine and roses.

 

:iagree: I'm wondering if perhaps Halycon (and others) weren't 'round these parts during the last election. It was crazy.

[Mrs Mungo]

And what do you mean by " some of the people you know who define themselves as libertarian haven't fully thought out the implications and are really social liberals?"

 

You said people who called themselves social liberals and fiscal conservatives sounded like libertarians. I see a lot of differences between social liberals and libertarians. If someone likes the positions held by social liberals, then maybe they are not as libertarian as they thought they were?

 

I'm a moderate who is personally conservative and has social liberal leanings.

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: I'm wondering if perhaps Halycon (and others) weren't 'round these parts during the last election. It was crazy.

 

For a reference point of how bad it was, I left for a few months.

[TJinLOCA]

Dyed-in-the-wool liberal, spent my early adulthood in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, active in numerous progressive causes. :)

 

Former homeschooler. Still liberal, though.

[Mergath]

I'm as liberal as they come. I think the government has a responsibility to help those in need by taxing the heck out of billionaires, and people should be able to marry trees if they really want to. Death penalty = bad, religious diversity rocks, and I would love to see every gun in the country dropped into the bottom of the ocean. And don't even ask about my views on environmentalism, because I'm sure I'll end up offending someone. :tongue_smilie:

[Joy at Home]

For a reference point of how bad it was, I left for a few months.

 

 

I don't look forward to 2012. I think I'll have to stay off the boards. Too easy to get sucked in, and I can't help myself. It's not pretty.

 

Lisa

Edited April 7, 2011 by Momto5girls

[lauracolumbus]

 

Mostly, as I watch people taking sides about something I do not understand or really care about, it feels reassuring to know I am not the only one watching in wonder.

 

Just an FYI, you don't have to be liberal to feel this way. I am a conservative on most issues and am amazed at the depth of feelings on this issue. It's a non-issue in my faith.

 

Laura

[Slartibartfast]

You said people who called themselves social liberals and fiscal conservatives sounded like libertarians. I see a lot of differences between social liberals and libertarians. If someone likes the positions held by social liberals, then maybe they are not as libertarian as they thought they were?

 

I'm a moderate who is personally conservative and has social liberal leanings.

 

Equal rights for homosexuals is actually a part of the Libertarian platform

 

1.3 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the

government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,

immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or

restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices

and personal relationships.

 

as are abortion rights

 

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration

 

Except I don't think I have ever heard people who say they are Libertarians agree with those two things

 

 

The Libertarian Platform can be found here.

 

http://www.lp.org/platform

 

Edited to add: I am not interested in debating the platform. I am not a Libertarian

[Mrs Mungo]

Except I don't think I have ever heard people who say they are Libertarians agree with those two things

 

That's all I was saying in regard to those two things.

[Slartibartfast]

That's all I was saying in regard to those two things.

 

I am curious as to who voted on the platform? I have never heard Libertarians support some of those issues...even many of their candidates don't seem to agree with them. It would be hard to vote for someone who completely disagreed with the issues that even make you consider the party.

 

Anyways.....not something I super want to discuss a lot since I am TOTALLY not Libertarian.

 

If someone says they are a social Liberal but a fiscal Conservative I think they are a Moderate. Welcome! *hands you a name tag*

Edited April 7, 2011 by Sis
trying to avoid any kerfuffle.

[AngelBee]

I'm as liberal as they come. I think the government has a responsibility to help those in need by taxing the heck out of billionaires, and people should be able to marry trees if they really want to. Death penalty = bad, religious diversity rocks, and I would love to see every gun in the country dropped into the bottom of the ocean. And don't even ask about my views on environmentalism, because I'm sure I'll end up offending someone. :tongue_smilie:

Now you have me intrigued... :lol:

 

:lurk5:

[Rivka]

Guys, guys, guys! All of this stuff about the Libertarian party platform, Ron Paul, etc. is going to get this thread deleted. The rule is no political parties and candidates. So let's not do that to halcyon again, okay?

 

Besides, I really don't want to see a perfectly nice thread go down in flames. I have never, ever, ever seen a libertarianism discussion on the net go well. Ever.

[ayden]

Liberal.

[Slartibartfast]

Guys, guys, guys! All of this stuff about the Libertarian party platform, Ron Paul, etc. is going to get this thread deleted. The rule is no political parties and candidates. So let's not do that to halcyon again, okay?

 

Besides, I really don't want to see a perfectly nice thread go down in flames. I have never, ever, ever seen a libertarianism discussion on the net go well. Ever.

 

Ok sorry sorry sorry. I apologize if I said anything offensive I mean no ill will or disrespect.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Sis