P.E. credit

[regentrude]

I know many state requirements have 1 P.E. credit (I know we do not have to follow them), and I have seen homeschoolers give a P.E. credit. I have read that some people have their students keep track of any exercise and award a credit for x amount of hours.

How do you handle it if your student is continuously physically active throughout high school? Somehow it seems to me silly to randomly award one credit in one of the school years (which year? For which activity?). OTOH, giving a credit each year looks as if I need to pad the transcript.

Do you give one credit at some point and then count the activity as an extracurricular? Do you give separate credits for different activities?

[1Togo]

I don't give a credit for P.E. I include exercise/physical work in the extracurricular portion of the transcript - hours spent, etc. I do the same with music. Something like this:

 

Extracurricular Activities

 

Ballet - 4 years, 3 class hours per week, 1 year-end recital

 

Violin - 4 years, 1 private lesson per week, 10 hours practice per week

 

Symphony Orchestra - 4 years, 2 hour rehearsal per week, 3 concerts per year

 

Volunteer Work

 

Ballet

2 Christmas outreach performances per year at local nursing homes - 4 hours

1 Christmas outreach performance per year at community celebration - 4 hours

 

Orchestra

4 outreach concerts per year - 8 hours

2 hours per week mentoring students in 1st and 2nd level orchestras - 60 hours

 

I usually include the name of the organization.

Edited March 13, 2011 by 1Togo

[Jane in NC]

My son earned 1/2 credit for PE in 9th based on a variety of activities. Beyond sports and exercise, he also read the monthly issue of the Nutrition Action Newsletter and learned to cook some healthy meals. He planned a hiking trip which he then did with his Dad. Part of that process was making a lightweight alcohol stove and then creating the meal plans for the trip.

 

The next year he did a longer hike with a group in the NC mountains. They did a variety of climate readings so we incorporated this experience into an elective on Climate. (To round out the quarter credit, he listened to some Teaching Company lectures, did some reading and wrote a research paper.) This is perhaps an alternate way of combining some sort of physical activity into the transcript outside of the PE label.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Jane in NC
correction

[Brenda in MA]

I try to follow the number of credits my local ps awards. I do this because at the end of high school, I want a letter from my local school department stating that my son's high school program met the graduation requirements of my local district. In my state, such a letter makes the folks at the state colleges & universities happy. I don't know that reporting PE in this way is absolutely required, but it just seems easier to me to report the PE activities in a way that the folks reviewing them are used to seeing.

 

So my older son had one PE credit in the 9th grade that was composed of boy scout merit badges in personal fitness and canoeing, as well as hours spent swimming, biking, hiking, etc. He also had a separate 0.5 credit for health, which he earned by using a textbook. All of his other PE related things were evident through extracurricular activities on his application.

 

I do agree with you that awarding a PE credit each year of high school might look like padding the transcript -- unless your child was interested in majoring in a field like physical therapy, sports management, or maybe entering the military. In that case, I would interpret lots of PE credits as a student showing interest in his/her intended major or field.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[romeacademy]

My dd took a personal health & fitness class for homeschoolers at the local Y last year. It was 12 weeks, so I counted the hours for that plus additional physical activity (rollerblading outings and biking, mostly) as a half credit. She's generally active, but I don't count regular walking, running, etc as part of PE every year. I'm planning to list athletic teams under extracurriculars. I decided to give 1/2 credit for the Y course because it included other general fitness topics, and honestly because I paid for it and it took a 2 hour chunk out of the day.

 

I do have a friend who's dd logs her activity and every time she hits 60 hours (I think) she earns a half credit. She's not really an active kid though.

[Peek a Boo]

mine will get 4 full credits of PE cuz they've earned them . ;)

 

Extra Curricular activities will show things like Scouting High Adventure Camps and 4-H stuff.

[Julie in MN]

I have actually read about schools that required you to PAY for a college phy ed credit if you didn't have enough in high school, so I'm taking the preventive measure of giving credit in high school!

 

For me, the content of the credit depends on the child (fortunately, since we're homeschoolers!). But mostly, I want activity and a little instruction.

 

My older dd was very sedentary, so her P.E. credit was more for the purpose of exposure to different potential lifetime activities for fitness (which is often the rationale behind high school p.e.). I had her join the Y and be trained in on their equipment, then she kept track of her fitness activities for a time (the Y used to have an online record). I had her go to homeschool bowling days & we read about rules & techniques, and I think she took a homeschool skiing class? Things like that. I think she earned 0.5 or 1.0, I'd have to check, but I based it on counting hours.

 

My youngest ds is very active, so his credit is no effort at all, and easily includes both activity and instruction. I just write things on our weekly grid, keep a few things as "evidence" like the YMCA class schedule and some snowboarding passes and maybe a photo of him playing hockey with his book club or something he printed out about boxing, and we're done. I'll probably award him 0.5 per year, for between 2 & 4 years, depending on what I see when I hunt around different high school & college websites. But I won't have to bother counting hours -- he's there.

 

Julie

P.S. I went ahead & looked up some local school credit descriptions here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2518376&postcount=13

Edited March 13, 2011 by Julie in MN
P.S.

[Peek a Boo]

we don't do too much organized sports, but we organize a weekly PE class following the President's Physical Fitness challenge exercises/run as well as basic warmups/ stretches; they also do a LOT of hiking. Their merit badges in Scouts work towards a credit too [anyone can use the free worksheets at meritbadge.org as a guideline if you wanted too-- lots of physical activities to choose from.

 

and everything we do in Scouts counts towards a 4-H Healthy Lifestyles project. :)

[Janice H]

We have heard from 3 out of the 4 institutions dd applied to. One LAC and two public univ's. All three accepted dd and no one asked about PE.

[Kareni]

The only Physical Education classes on my daughter's transcript were for out of the home classes such as Fencing (taken through a homeschooling resource center) and Archery (taken at the local community college).

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Lori D.]

My decision to put PE on the transcript was based on a need to keep DSs from being couch potatoes, and to (hopefully!) find some form of physical exercise they enjoy and so incorporate it as a permanent healthy lifestyle.

 

So... I award 0.5 credit of PE each year; I calculate that credit sheerly by hours logged -- 75-90 hours, which comes out to about 2 to 2.5 hours a week for 36 weeks. I figure that way they either do something for an hour twice a week, or 30 minutes four times a week, which is a good regular habit. :) I list the transcript by SUBJECT not by grade, so PE looks a bit like the English credits for us:

 

Physical Education

PE 9 = 0.5 credit

PE 10 = 0.5 credit

PE 11 = 0.5 credit

PE 12 = 0.5 credit

 

They have primarily logged their time by swimming laps or tennis. But they have also used dance pads hooked up to the X-box at home, played informal basketball or 4-square with friends; biked; hiked; canoed; and learned ballroom dancing with friends, among other things.

 

 

I guess I see the transcript credit for PE for *us* more as visible "payment" to them for the time they have invested. (lLter in life they will figure out I was just being sneaky in getting them off the couch and into a healthy life-long habit. :tongue_smilie:)

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Lori D.

[AnitaMcC]

IL schools require four years of PE so that is what we do.

 

Dd spends 15+ hours a week in Kung Fu and running. Ds isn't as active as Dd but he does about 7 hours a week with Kung Fu, bowling, and walking/running.

 

I haven't decided how I am going to do it for grade. I am thinking I will just list it as a P (pass) grade and give the 1 credit each year.

[Brindee]

My decision to put PE on the transcript was based on a need to keep DSs from being couch potatoes, and to (hopefully!) find some form of physical exercise they enjoy and so incorporate it as a permanent healthy lifestyle.

 

So... I award 0.5 credit of PE each year; I calculate that credit sheerly by hours logged -- 75-90 hours, which comes out to about 2 to 2.5 hours a week for 36 weeks. I figure that way they either do something for an hour twice a week, or 30 minutes four times a week, which is a good regular habit. :) I list the transcript by SUBJECT not by grade, so PE looks a bit like the English credits for us:

 

Physical Education

PE 9 = 0.5 credit

PE 10 = 0.5 credit

PE 11 = 0.5 credit

PE 12 = 0.5 credit

 

They have primarily logged their time by swimming laps or tennis. But they have also used dance pads hooked up to the X-box at home, played informal basketball or 4-square with friends; biked; hiked; canoed; and learned ballroom dancing with friends, among other things.

 

 

I guess I see the transcript credit for PE for *us* more as visible "payment" to them for the time they have invested. (lLter in life they will figure out I was just being sneaky in getting them off the couch and into a healthy life-long habit. :tongue_smilie:)

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

This is how I've handled it as well. Each year my kids got/get 0.5 credit for PE based on hours. Mine do at least 90 hours for the half-credit. It's not been that hard to get them to do that much with walking, Wii Fit exercising, swimming, bowling (ds17), horseback-riding (dd), etc.

 

We have a new Y that's HOPEFULLY opening up in August. It's a 5 minute drive away, so we will be joining and doing activities there!

[regentrude]

Thanks for all the replies! Lots to ponder.

My DD rides horses and spends 20+ hours per week at the stable. As she also learns about horse care, observes chiropractor, veterinarian and dentist work on horses and will do some theoretical work, I am leaning towards adding enough academic components to make it an elective in Equine Studies.

 

In the summers, she gets rock climbing instruction and climbs and hikes- that alone would be more than enough hours for at least half a credit each year.

I'll think about it some more... somehow, giving credit for simply a normal active life style and the stuff we basically do for fun still seems odd to me...

[plansrme]

For those that don't do organized sports, consider "Lifetime Wellness"--include First Aid and CPR perhaps QUOTE]

 

I think first aid is a fabulous requirement. Even in my podunk high school, we did a month or so of first aid in P.E., and I still remember how to stop bleeding (that has come in handy), do mouth-to-mouth, save a choking victim (also have used that one, twice) and treat a burn.

 

My plan is to give a credit for P.E. by combining a first aid class (CPR at the Y or somewhere else) and have my students study for and get certified either as a lifeguard (one of my future high schoolers is a swimmer) or as a judge or referee in his or her sport (either swim, gym or baseball). Shhhh, don't tell them that this last requirement also, coincidentally, might qualify them for a nifty part-time job. ;)

 

Terri

[Peek a Boo]

My DD rides horses and spends 20+ hours per week at the stable. As she also learns about horse care, observes chiropractor, veterinarian and dentist work on horses and will do some theoretical work, I am leaning towards adding enough academic components to make it an elective in Equine Studies.

 

In the summers, she gets rock climbing instruction and climbs and hikes- that alone would be more than enough hours for at least half a credit each year.

I'll think about it some more... somehow, giving credit for simply a normal active life style and the stuff we basically do for fun still seems odd to me...

 

do a google search for 4-H horse project workbook: there are some awesome academic opportunities out there that you can either print [for free!] and file or she can take on as a 4-H project [The Horse Quiz Bowl is a good one]. 4-H offers a lot of scholarships too.

 

There's also the merit badge stuff i linked above-- print out the worksheets and use them as academics!

 

and don't kid yourself-- the "normal active lifestyle" ain't all that normal......or active......

[J-rap]

I just take one credit-worth of PE, and call the rest extra curricular. (We also do a semester (half credit) of health.) I think in order to call it a whole credit in our state, it has to be at least 120 hours. So, I list an assortment of activities that add up to that amount, including ballet classes, school sports, homeschool gym time, even family bike rides.

[Lolly]

I give one credit of P.E. and list the other years as extra curricular.

[regentrude]

do a google search for 4-H horse project workbook: there are some awesome academic opportunities out there that you can either print [for free!] and file or she can take on as a 4-H project [The Horse Quiz Bowl is a good one]. 4-H offers a lot of scholarships too.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. She won't want to actually join 4-H (as it is, she is overscheduled already), but those workbooks sound like great opportunity to get some background work done.

[Joan in GE]

Our ds does a lot of running all year long, and other sports in the summer, but I wanted the PE credits (he received .5 in 9th and .5 in 10th) to reflect exposure to or learning of new skills (at least part of the philosophy of a gym class in school).

 

So we only counted the hours of sports classes, eg rowing, sailing, track & field class (where he had to do all types of events - high jump, shotput, etc) etc, which varied in time - 1xwk/6 weeks, 1 week/ 3hrs/day, etc.

 

It seemed that a varsity sport would be an extracurricular on a normal transcript, so did not count his time with the track team for PE.

 

Joan

[vonfirmath]

I know many state requirements have 1 P.E. credit (I know we do not have to follow them), and I have seen homeschoolers give a P.E. credit. I have read that some people have their students keep track of any exercise and award a credit for x amount of hours.

How do you handle it if your student is continuously physically active throughout high school? Somehow it seems to me silly to randomly award one credit in one of the school years (which year? For which activity?). OTOH, giving a credit each year looks as if I need to pad the transcript.

Do you give one credit at some point and then count the activity as an extracurricular? Do you give separate credits for different activities?

 

I ended up with 2 credits of PE in high school because the Fall semester of band every year was counted as PE (marching band)

 

I'm sure football players, etc end up with 4 years of PE and no one considers it padding. If your kid is really athletic, this is just his reality.

[angela in ohio]

I'm giving a 1/2 credit each for 9th and 10th grade. I've seen requirements for 1/2 or 1 credit, so I'm covering our bases. They will still have plenty of physical activities for their extracurricular list.

[Nan in Mass]

My boys are/were gymnasts. We listed the gymnastics as extracurricular. My local school system has a one-year pe requirement, and although I think I could get away without making my transcript look like theirs (they are pretty good at accommodating the flexibility that homeschooling allows), I prefer to have on my transcripts the same things that are on public school transcripts. I solved the problem of pe by giving my children credit for non-gymnastics things in which they received instruction and that they practiced. It wasn't always a full semester of instruction, but I counted up the hours of practice to make sure that was roughly a semester's worth. My older one did the Friday rock-climbing sessions at the Y one winter, and then spent the summer bouldering wherever we were as we drove around the southwest with my parents. My father designed the trip to include places like Huaco Tanks to please him. He also took the local bump's 8-week snowboarding program and then spent as much time snowboarding as possible for the rest of high school. He did some reading about both sports. The younger one did snowboarding and is now taking swimming lessons, so those will be his two. I know they aren't exactly classical education, but I was/will be happy to put them on their transcripts, and more than happy to have them learn some individually-oriented play-type sports that they can do as adults. I am, of course, especially happy about the swimming, since we spend so much time on the water. Those courses did just what I think education ought to do - expanded my children's horizons and showed them new possibilities and gave them things to think and dream about and taught them something they can use as adults. Sigh - I expect my two oldest sons have spent more time in high school thinking about snowboarding than they spent thinking about math. For my middle one, the snowboarding and rock-climbing have turned out to be important college social skills. They also eased the transition from high-level high school athlete in tip-top shape with coaches fussing over him to ordinary adult, not an easy transition. There turned out to be some wisdom in that public school pe requirement. That was a complete surprise to me.

-Nan

[Julie in MN]

the local bump'

:lol::lol::lol:

[plansrme]

Those courses did just what I think education ought to do - expanded my children's horizons and showed them new possibilities and gave them things to think and dream about and taught them something they can use as adults. Sigh - I expect my two oldest sons have spent more time in high school thinking about snowboarding than they spent thinking about math. For my middle one, the snowboarding and rock-climbing have turned out to be important college social skills. They also eased the transition from high-level high school athlete in tip-top shape with coaches fussing over him to ordinary adult, not an easy transition. There turned out to be some wisdom in that public school pe requirement. That was a complete surprise to me.

-Nan

 

Just wanted to let you know that I appreciated these wise observations.

 

And I will add (and I realize this is in no way relevant to the OP's question) that my kids and I joke that we have a P.E.-centered homeschool. While that is not entirely true, I have realized that there are seasons in one's life, and that I have to respect that as a parent. My children have the rest of their lives to learn math and literature and science. Their time as competitive athletes, however, will be over, at the latest, when they graduate from college. In the long run, I am not short-changing them by making adjustments to their academic loads to make sure they do all they can and want to do in their respective sports before this season of their lives necessarily comes to an end. I want them to be ready for academic rigor when it comes, but they have many years ahead of them in which they can acquire the body of knowledge they need to get what they want to get out of life.

 

Sorry for the rambling, and again, I know--not relevant to the OP, but I've been thinking a lot lately about the intersection of academics and athletics. I've always recited the standard, "School comes first, Young Lady," but lately I've come to realize that that's not necessarily how we operate in practice and that, just maybe, I am okay with that.

 

Terri

[Ester Maria]

I am adamantly against P.E. in high school, due to my idea of high school as a strictly academic institution, with all non-academic areas belonging to the sphere of one's private life and outside interests, to be put on the transcript maybe, but not to be awarded credit for. (And yes, I did have P.E. in high school, all five years, as required by our school system, and no, it did not ruin my GPA and I have no "personal reason" to be so against it as I am - just a different concept of what belongs to formal education - and what doesn't. :))

 

If I were in your situation, I would be inclined to award the "usual" high school credit only (.5 - 1 credit, depending on what's the "standard", whether prescribed or tacit, around you), treat sports as extracurriculars and put them on the transcript as such, and focus on getting the rest of the credits for academic work. If she is so into hourses that you think it's a shame not to have it "counted", and you have the freedom of having "unusual" courses in addition to your regular high school load, I would be inclined to add the academic component and call it Equine Studies, like you suggested in one of your posts.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Ester Maria

[mcconnellboys]

I did just give one credit during my older son's freshman year, then everything else was counted as extra-curricular. He swam year round (and still does), so it was really a moot point for us.

 

I had him involved in a large variety of different physical activities during the year I gave the credit, however, which seems to be what they are trying to accomplish with the credit, at least in my state....

[Nan in Mass]

In my town, the high school gym teacher says she has two aims. One is to try to help everyone find an activity that they like enough that they will keep on doing it on their own. The other is to teach everyone the rules to all the common sports so they will be able to play for social purposes if need be, or at least follow a game. Her focus is long-term health and social skills. Gym when I was in high school was totally useless, all four years of it, so I was surprised at how it had changed. In retrospect, I can see how some of the students in my school might have needed the excersize and how some of the students, especially the boys, might have needed to move around in the middle of the school day.

-nan

[Storm Bay]

I'll think about it some more... somehow, giving credit for simply a normal active life style and the stuff we basically do for fun still seems odd to me...

 

One of the great things about educating at home is that we have the ability to educate the whole person and not just limit ourselves to tradtional academic subjects. Physical education helps round out education and contribues to a healthy student.

 

As long as my dc are phsyically active in a sport all during they school year with enough hours per week, I'll grant them phys ed credit if they are still homeschooling.

[mcconnellboys]

My PE was seriously one of my best classes! The teacher was serious about developing an exercise program for herself, I think, LOL, but in doing so she got all of us into terrific shape, too! I wish I'd had the class the entire four years and maybe by then it would have become a habit for me.

 

She started us on exercises and made sure we were doing them correctly and could do a decent set (10, 15, 20, 25 reps, etc.) before adding a couple or three more, new exercises. By the end of the year the entire class was in great shape!

[Peek a Boo]

One of the great things about educating at home is that we have the ability to educate the whole person and not just limit ourselves to tradtional academic subjects. Physical education helps round out education and contribues to a healthy student.

.

 

ayup. high school is about correct preparation for *life* -- including physical and social skills. All the academic knowledge in the world won't serve you well if you are constantly distracted by poor health or can't communicate it effectively to those around you.

[regentrude]

ayup. high school is about correct preparation for *life* -- including physical and social skills. All the academic knowledge in the world won't serve you well if you are constantly distracted by poor health or can't communicate it effectively to those around you.

 

I guess my issues - and the reason why I ask stupid questions like this - stems from the fact that I, like Ester Maria, have grown up in a system where SCHOOL is intended to cover academics - and all other things are delegated to the private realm. (Yes, we did have rather rigorous PE every single year throughout high school and it was utterly useless for instilling life long habits or anything else. And yes, I was good at it, too.)

 

There are many things that I, as a parent, teach my children to prepare them for life which I hesitate to consider "school". To be healthy, to eat well, to be physically active, to enjoy art and music, to interact socially, to keep house, to deal with personal finances- all of these things are certainly essential life skills. But do they belong on the piece of paper whose purpose it is to demonstrate to a university that my student is prepared for challenging academic work?

I see many requirements from the school system as taking over the parental responsibility. Schools in this country have a mandate to teach things that normally a parent would, and more and more requirements are being added such as health and personal finance, to name just two. Schools, instead of parents, are teaching basic life skills- at the expense of academics.

I guess that is what bothers me about all these things. Not that I have to teach my kids the skills - I would do that anyway. But that I have to spend time pondering how I neatly wrap *lifestyle* into boxes that fit.

[1Togo]

I, unlike you and Ester Maria, did not grow up in a system where schools only covered academics. However, I only include academic subjects for GPA on our homeschool transcript. The rest of our children's lives; i.e. music, sports, volunteer work, etc. is covered in two categories at the bottom of the transcript -- Extracurricular and Volunteer Work. Our sons did not have any problems earning enough credits, and all aspects of their lives are covered in a simple document. We put ACT and SAT scores at the top of the transcript after personal information because colleges are looking for those scores, especially from homeschooled students. The top of the transcript is also a good place to put AP subjects with passing scores. You can include the subject and grade with academic courses for credit totals and GPA, but a list of passed AP tests and excellent ACT/SAT scores is a strong start for a transcript. Grades, etc. are coming from mom. Standardized scores are more objective in their eyes.

 

The best thing to do regarding transcripts is to look at your end goal. Decide on your target schools, if possible, and find out what they want from homeschooled students. For example, some state universities in our area don't even care about transcripts from homeschooled students. They use ACT/SAT scores as their criteria for admittance and scholarship awards. However, one competitive state college wants to see a well-rounded transcript, but they award scholarships based on scores, and they don't give much unless the score is above 31 on the ACT. Some private schools in our state require the parent to fill out a document that includes homeschool philosophy, a list of curriculum used, and a description of the course content. The most selective private school in the area requires homeschooled students to pass three SAT subject tests, and they must nail the ACT/SAT. It is a mixed bag of expectations.

 

We kept good records for our sons, but we began using a portfolio planner at the beginning of junior high for our daughter. We have tests, writing samples, quarterly grade charts, and lists of completed curriculum in one 8.5 by 11 package if we need detailed documentation to support her transcript.

Edited March 15, 2011 by 1Togo

[Peek a Boo]

...where SCHOOL is intended to cover academics - and all other things are delegated to the private realm. (Yes, we did have rather rigorous PE every single year throughout high school and it was utterly useless for instilling life long habits or anything else. And yes, I was good at it, too.)

 

There are many things that I, as a parent, teach my children to prepare them for life which I hesitate to consider "school". To be healthy, to eat well, to be physically active, to enjoy art and music, to interact socially, to keep house, to deal with personal finances- all of these things are certainly essential life skills. But do they belong on the piece of paper whose purpose it is to demonstrate to a university that my student is prepared for challenging academic work?

I can understand and agree with the fact that these are things that should simply be parented. But something that many colleges are finding out is that if a kid can't keep up physically with the stressful demands of college work, the academics will suffer.

 

The transcript is simply a way to impart to the institution what the student knows: otherwise we wouldn't even bother listing those extra curriculars or volunteer opportunities. But just listing those doesn't always show that a topic was truly researched at a suitable depth.

 

I took plenty of math in high school, and none of that 'stuck' either, lol. Even when i made great grades. But that doesn't mean the course wasn't helpful or that colleges would expect me to leave it off.

 

But honestly? if you know your student has mastered a lifestyle skill, just search some course descriptions and award the credit. We don't have to keep track of hours if our student can essentially 'CLEP out' of a subject that we know they understand well.

[Ester Maria]

I don't view the purpose of the high school education to be a preparation for life, but a preparation for one's academic life: laying down the foundations, with the breadth needed, to build on later. If you asked me, I would ditch out of the realm of "formal schooling" not only PE, but also courses of home economics and personal finances, driver's ed., certain electives which are essentially non-academic in nature, volunteering requirements which some schools have... I would strip the school down to only its original function: an academic institution. True, schools have meanwhile turned into this sort of "all-inclusive" daycares for teens, so many people find it hard to fathom a school outside of that framework, but I find it much better to have formal schooling separated into its own institutions, and have everything else be just "life".

But something that many colleges are finding out is that if a kid can't keep up physically with the stressful demands of college work, the academics will suffer.

This, in my eyes, is entirely the kids' problem.

The colleges' business is to provide instuction, set up requirements to meet and opportunities to test. If kids fail, well, let them fail - you did your own job, they're no longer small and should be capable of learning how to organize their lives to bring about the maximum academic productivity (healthy lifestyle, etc.). But in my eyes, it's really not school's job in any way, but something to be addressed in the sphere of one's personal life.

 

Of course, in the context of homeschooling, the formal and the informal often intersect, but I would still find it weird to award credits fr what I, essentially, consider "life" rather than "school". So I get where regentrude's dilemma is. She is stuck between two systems, two ways of looking at the purpose and the contents of education, and trying to find how to go about it to her daughter's interest, yet remaining sort of "intellectually honest" with herself about what she finds to constitute school, and what she finds doesn't constititute it.

 

My choice would be to go all the way through with the European mindset: award minimal PE credit that's the "standard" that's awarded in schools near you, and have everything else be strictly academics, especially with an obviously academics-inclined, accelerated child. I would encourage her to keep sports an important part of her life, but I would list it all as extracurriculars other than that minimal PE credit that's "standard".

[AnitaMcC]

I feel that life skills, and other "fluff" courses, are part of academics. It doesn't have to be a huge part, but a part of it.

 

I will give my kids credit for health, life skills, consumer education, and driver's education. But I also make sure that these are not "fluff" courses. They are indepth, they are academics and it takes them a full school year to complete each of the courses. They do enough "work" to earn a full credit for each course, but I give them half credit for them. They do a research project for each course for a final exam grade. PE credit is on their transcripts (just like it would be if they went to ps)... but it is not included in the total credits they have to earn to graduate, nor part of their GPA. PE credit is given because that is what is expected (some states require it, some diploma programs require it). Our school district (IL) requires 3 yrs of PE, 1 semester of health, 1 semester of Drives Ed, and that is how it was when I went to high school in another disctrict in IL.

 

In all, my kids will earn 2 credits of these courses, and 3 credits for PE. Since Dd will earn 27 credits (not including PE), I don't see it as an issue at all. What does it matter if she graduates with 25 or 27 credits? She still will have 5 credits of English, 4 credits of social studies, 4 credits of math, 3 credits of science. To me, that is pretty good. She still has to compete againse public/private school students getting into college. IMO, it makes it easier for colleges if Dd's education at least looks similar to the public school students on paper. My Dd just works harder to earn those credits.

 

I know that when I went through high school I was required to do home ec, fine arts, consumer education/personal finaces, health, and PE. And talking with my mom who is 69 yrs old.. she had to do the same things in high school, and her mother too. So, I am thinking that life skill type courses have been a part of formal education for nearly 100 years at least in some areas.

Edited March 15, 2011 by AnitaMcC

[mcconnellboys]

I see the schools as requiring kids to remain generalists much longer, and even colleges are tending toward this for the first two years now (more so than when I was in college). It's no wonder to me that kids don't know what they want to be - they're never allowed to focus on interest areas and go deeper into study of those areas, simply due to time constraints of having to fulfill a million other general requirements....

 

If something like a PE or health weren't a requirement for state graduation here, and/or if I didn't worry that colleges might look askance at our not completing the "general requirements" for our state, I would not bother to put such things on a transcript.

[Ester Maria]

I know that when I went through high school I was required to do home ec, fine arts, consumer education/personal finaces, health, and PE. And talking with my mom who is 69 yrs old.. she had to do the same things in high school, and her mother too. So, I am thinking that life skill type courses have been a part of formal education for nearly 100 years at least in some areas.

I agree about PE - we had PE, my parents had PE, everyone had PE. The fact that I personally consider that it shouldn't be there, in high school, doesn't make it go away - historically, it has been present. So have fine arts, though on high school level they went "theoretical" (Art History as opposed to Art), which I find appropriate.

But the other things you mention, no.

 

I'm trying to think really hard how would I even go about "Life Skills" course. What does the title mean? I don't know if we even have a concept like that in our culture. How would we call it? Le competenze / abilità di vita? Now when I tried to google it, I found a whole lot of results basically explaining, to Italians, what life skills are and what to list there in CVs. :lol: So I guess it's not only me - there really is no such a blanket term, let alone something which resembles an academic discipline, in our culture.

 

Personal finances were something that came up in math now and then, and maybe a bit in law and economics in the schools which had that class - but what can you possibly do there that's not the math you know already and some application of it to your life combined with some common sense? Consumer education? I saw a few syllabi for that, and to me it looked like teaching common sense and minimal economics literacy, which children of that age should get at home anyway?

 

Health can be made into an appropriate, academic course in my experience. We still prefer to group it with just regular Biology course when covering human physiology and the most common pathologies, so obviously health does pop up as a topic.

 

All in all, as usual, it comes down to radically different perspectives of what a formal education should include. I don't doubt that there are places with a "tradition" of having such courses, but I do doubt whether that's the optimal way schools should be organized, to include those courses too. Of course, we have the freedom to homeschool, and many of you have really big freedoms within the freedom to homeschool, so whatever you choose as best for you is fine, especially if those courses are an addition to the full academic credits rather than substitution for those - just thinking out loud here.

Did you really find them helpful to you, something you wouldn't master outside of the institutional framework anyway? :confused: (Just curious, as I did find it a bit shocking that even your grandmother had those courses. :))

Edited March 15, 2011 by Ester Maria

[elegantlion]

 

 

Personal finances were something that came up in math now and then, and maybe a bit in law and economics in the schools which had that class - but what can you possibly do there that's not the math you know already and some application of it to your life combined with some common sense? Consumer education? I saw a few syllabi for that, and to me it looked like teaching common sense and minimal economics literacy, which children of that age should get at home anyway?

 

 

Did you really find them helpful to you, something you wouldn't master outside of the institutional framework anyway? :confused: (Just curious, as I did find it a bit shocking that even your grandmother had those courses. :))

 

I find your perspective refreshing and would have benefited from a more academic centered education. I also believe that most schools are really community centers and try to do too much. Sports has always been a big focus in our area. Athletes are edified while smart students were set aside. When I was in high school (eons ago) only athletes could letter (letter jackets are cool after all:tongue_smilie:). After I graduated they added a letter for academics.

 

Personal finance was NOT something I was taught at home. I would have greatly benefited from a class at school, there were none at the time.

 

However, I do still have issue with assigning credit (I'm just beginning this phase) for what I consider life skills. It almost feels fake putting some of these things on a transcript, like I'm having to play their game. I dislike bureaucratic games. But if I don't list PE and health and personal finance does that hinder his acceptances at some colleges?

 

I'll probably end up listing the minimums from our state and using other physical activities as extra-curricular.

[Peek a Boo]

 

Personal finances were something that came up in math now and then, and maybe a bit in law and economics in the schools which had that class - but what can you possibly do there that's not the math you know already and some application of it to your life combined with some common sense? Consumer education? I saw a few syllabi for that, and to me it looked like teaching common sense and minimal economics literacy, which children of that age should get at home anyway?

 

considering the economic disaster that most people have as their personal finances, that "common sense" isn't so common and many times *does* need to be taught. When one member of our society screws up economically, it has a HUGE impact on the rest of us that end up picking up the slack.

 

Health can be made into an appropriate, academic course in my experience. We still prefer to group it with just regular Biology course when covering human physiology and the most common pathologies, so obviously health does pop up as a topic.

 

yeah, but kinda like a course on dog care/veterinary science is an advanced course that you won't study in basic biology, the proper care of the human body is more of an advanced topic [usually called health] in high school. There's SO MUCH that comes with the proper care of just the human body that there's little room for it in a biology class [unless you're skipping lots of basic biology of other critters to focus on human biology].

 

...especially if those courses are an addition to the full academic credits rather than substitution for those - just thinking out loud here.

 

ayup. part of that 'well rounded' education. Another radical perspective is the need for a 'formal' education as opposed to one that is centered around basic life skills. ;)

 

but ultimately, the whole PE thing will depend on what the college you want to attend wants, so we need to be sure to ask around.

[Peek a Boo]

 

This, in my eyes, is entirely the kids' problem.

The colleges' business is to provide instuction, set up requirements to meet and opportunities to test. If kids fail, well, let them fail - you did your own job, they're no longer small and should be capable of learning how to organize their lives to bring about the maximum academic productivity (healthy lifestyle, etc.). .

 

but that's just it: colleges want kids that have been prepared *to succeed.* It is a waste of their time to admit kids that will likely fail. They want kids that have *already been taught* to do those basic things.

 

Thus, MY job of making sure they are physically fit, health-minded enough, and understand personal finances well enough to manage their body and financial stresses.

:)

[regentrude]

but that's just it: colleges want kids that have been prepared *to succeed.* It is a waste of their time to admit kids that will likely fail. They want kids that have *already been taught* to do those basic things.

 

Actually, the students who fail do so primarily because they have no adequate academic preparation: they are lacking basic algebra skills, have not learned to read a textbook, have not learned to stretch their minds and work hard.

These are the reasons the students fail my classes - not because they can't sew, clean, are not physically fit, or don't brush their teeth.

[regentrude]

yeah, but kinda like a course on dog care/veterinary science is an advanced course that you won't study in basic biology, the proper care of the human body is more of an advanced topic [usually called health] in high school. There's SO MUCH that comes with the proper care of just the human body that there's little room for it in a biology class [unless you're skipping lots of basic biology of other critters to focus on human biology].

 

 

Somehow, people in my home country are not sicker. In fact, they are more physically active and a much smaller percentage of the population is overweight. We have no "health" class in school. If anything, it is covered in a biology class - most of the things I learned at home from living with my parents: how to take care you the body, how to eat well, how do deal with minor illness. the only formal training was a required CPR course which, in Germany, is mandatory for anybody who wants to get a driver's license.

 

Living healthy is not at all complicated. It does not have to be blown up into an school subject.

[Amy in TX]

However, I do still have issue with assigning credit (I'm just beginning this phase) for what I consider life skills. It almost feels fake putting some of these things on a transcript, like I'm having to play their game. I dislike bureaucratic games. But if I don't list PE and health and personal finance does that hinder his acceptances at some colleges?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. For me, it even seems invasive to be asked to list extracurricular activities, lol.

 

Yes, I know the accepted reasoning: that colleges want to see the "whole person," and to figure out if this student will be a "good fit," will succeed in that environment, etc. They use this extra info to choose between equally qualified applicants, etc.

 

But European posters have indicated that this is not the way it's done in Europe. Can anyone tell us how those universities choose whom to admit if they have too many equally qualified applicants?

[regentrude]

But considering how many people in Canada who have health problems and complications due to living with a unhealthy live style - it must be to complicated/hard for some people.

 

Yes, but is it really that they do not know what they should be doing? Isn't it rather that they just don't do it?

I don't think there can be anybody these days who does not know that smoking causes cancer, that exercise is necessary for health, and that consuming junk food and soft drinks and being overweight are unhealthy. How could you manage to avoid all this information? But people still smoke, don't exercise, eat unhealthy food and become obese.

 

I don't buy that it is lack of knowledge.

[regentrude]

But European posters have indicated that this is not the way it's done in Europe. Can anyone tell us how those universities choose whom to admit if they have too many equally qualified applicants?

 

You mean in Europe?

I only know about Germany. In order to be admitted to the University, you have to pass a certain exam, the Abitur which is a rigorous high school final in all subjects: German, math, sciences, history. (So not just a multiple choice thing like the SAT or ACT). The high school transcript reflects the scores in all those subjects; some earned over the last two years, in several (four?) subjects also verified by a written and oral final exam. Passing this exam in all subjects gets you into any German university in most majors.

Some very sought after majors are restricted (numerus clausus). (For instance law, medicine, and some others). For those, the main criterion are your Abitur scores. You get extra points for every semester you spend on a wait list.

Extracurriculars play absolutely no role in university admission. Academic qualification is the only thing that matters.

 

ETA: For Art and music school, admission is based on an entrance examination. So your talent is the primary thing that is considered.

Edited March 15, 2011 by regentrude

[elegantlion]

 

I don't buy that it is lack of knowledge.

 

:iagree: And I don't think anyone is disagreeing that this information should be taught. These are things I take on as parental responsibility. But should we feel the need to issue credit for every little thing our children do as standard fare? That is my concern. I never got credit for the hours I taught myself to play piano, or the wonderful educational vacations we took as a family.

 

I wonder if, besides tradition, this is part of the entertainment stuffed American lifestyle. Are we (rhetorical) raising children that won't do anything educational unless they get "credit" for it?

 

I discovered our town had a carpentry class in the 1970s. The class built a house, a full complete still standing house. Today I fear it would all be theoretical and they might hammer a few boards together and call it a credit. So part of my issue with these credits is that in theory they're useful to a community, in reality they may have little real world application.

 

Obviously as homeschoolers we're in a position to apply these to actual real life, but does it still warrant a credit?

[Storm Bay]

I guess my issues - and the reason why I ask stupid questions like this - stems from the fact that I, like Ester Maria, have grown up in a system where SCHOOL is intended to cover academics - and all other things are delegated to the private realm.QUOTE]

 

Somehow, people in my home country are not sicker. In fact, they are more physically active and a much smaller percentage of the population is overweight. We have no "health" class in school.

Living healthy is not at all complicated. It does not have to be blown up into an school subject.

 

A surprising number of good 4 year colleges look for somewaht different things from homeschoolers than from dc in public or private schools. I have done a fair bit of research on this in preparation for homeschooling high school. Granted, required academics need to be there, and strong test scores are usually required.

 

It's true that there are private things that should be taught at home that the schools are now teaching. I don't think that every life skill should be turned into a credit, although there are often places to list nonacademic classes, extracurriculars, etc.

 

This is where good course descriptions come into play. Teaching my dc how to cook is NOT an academic subject, nor would I give them high school credit for something like this. However, if one of my dc was passionate about this to the point where they were willing to do a serious course in nutrition, with a good text for a start, etc, with writing assignments, exams, etc, then I would make that a credit course because we've turned it into something academic, even if it's not in the normal course load. The university/college in question can see what materials were covered and judge for themselves.

 

This is one of those areas where homeschoolers do not agree. Also, if I had a child who was not going to make it in college for one reason or another, then I would give credit for any course we did in preparation for the field they were going to enter, similar to a VoTech or agricultural high school. In our case, my dc are covering all the required academics, but I feel free to modify electives.

[AnitaMcC]

I agree with this for some people, in some types of communities. But considering how many people in Canada who have health problems and complications due to living with a unhealthy live style - it must be to complicated/hard for some people.

 

For Health I want them to learn the basics of a healthy diet, and other normal health class stuff. But I also want them to learn about health problems of other people. In our family we have no allergies, unique serious diet needs, prone to sickness, ... So my boys don't know how to deal with people who have 'difficulties'? Pretty much the various topics touched on in this message board about allergies, various eating disorders, what it's like to live with: chronic pain, diabetes, hearing difficulties...

Basically I want my boys to not this know the proper steps to stay healthy, but to also know about the health problems of other people and how to help? them.

 

This is how we did the health course. It wasn't just learning about what a healthy life style is... but it also got into very basic psychology (mental disorders, relationships, religion/spiritual well being), basic sociology (societal impact on individuals/peer pressure), health disorders, and more. It discussed the effects of drug abuse, smoking, alcohol, anger managment, basic first aid, CPR, and so on. And all of it also helped them connect all of these issues into how it affects the community as well as the individual. To me... this is an academic course. And it also introduced other social sciences to the students. My Dd is interested in studying more on psychology and sociology. Subjects that she had no interest in before.

 

For personal finance... we are actually doing consumer education and economics. Not just how to balance a checking account and budget finances. It goes into consumer choices, rights, economics, U.S. economics, comparative economics, banking (different types, laws, etc), budgeting, financial security, insurances, and more.

 

For life skills... it covers home maintenance, car maintenance, emergency preparedness, job preparation (resume's, interviewing and networking skills), basic computer skills, study skills, organizational skills, and more. For us, it has nothing to do with home ec. Learning to cook,shopping, simple sewing, laundry, housekeeping... that is something that they just learn as part of the family and growing up and is not part of the life skills class. Maybe I just need to call it something else.

[Peek a Boo]

Actually, the students who fail do so primarily because they have no adequate academic preparation: they are lacking basic algebra skills, have not learned to read a textbook, have not learned to stretch their minds and work hard.

These are the reasons the students fail my classes - not because they can't sew, clean, are not physically fit, or don't brush their teeth.

 

 

...except we're seeing way more students failing because of social pressures than academic ones. The drugs, alcohol, and party lifestyle are overwhelming. College kids living on caffeine and ramen soup is the punchline of every joke....because it is so often true.

 

Yes, but is it really that they do not know what they should be doing? Isn't it rather that they just don't do it?

I don't think there can be anybody these days who does not know that smoking causes cancer, that exercise is necessary for health, and that consuming junk food and soft drinks and being overweight are unhealthy. How could you manage to avoid all this information? But people still smoke, don't exercise, eat unhealthy food and become obese.

 

I don't buy that it is lack of knowledge.

 

that's because learning how to apply and discern the reasons to avoid those *as a lifestyle* requires more than just a simple telling-- they involve a training that takes more time, study, and research. As has been mentioned, there's more to a PE/health credit than just discussing basic anatomy via biology or walking a few times a week: the psychological/sociological impact and consequences are pretty heady... far more than just brushing one's teeth regularly. ;)

 

Of the top 5 colleges in the world, the US consistently ranks in the majority when looking at different surveys. I think our colleges might be doing something successful, and PE happens to be on the agenda in the US. I'll let Europe continue being Europe. :D