Young Life -- what do you think of this kind of Christian outreach?

[freethinkermama]

It seems to me, then, that you understand why there would be a percieved need to share 'the truth' as that person understands it. You to save someone from their supernatural beliefs, Christians/Muslims to save someone from their disbelief.

 

 

This is the video I saw the first time around. It is definitely tilted, but the video clips (imo) say a bit. Please note, I know that people would disagree vehemently with how Islam is portrayed. I just wanted to be 'honest' in posting the video of which I was speaking, I found a few more sources for those that wouldn't want to see an overtly tilted pov:

http://www.necn.com/09/16/10/Mosque-field-trip-controversy/landing.html?blockID=312554&feedID=4206

 

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/12002241117692/wellesley-students-visit-mosque-on-class-trip/

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/17/school-apologizes-students-pray-allah-field-trip-mosque/

 

That's just the point I was making! We may both see reasons to want to convert the other. You don't see a problem with a group going into a school and doing that. I do.

 

I rather thought that was the incident you were referring to. I'll watch the links. I see from the web addresses that there was an apology for whatever this incident was. That sounds good. I wish all groups who overstep the line would apologize as these folks have apparently done. I don't expect that though.

 

Also, I see a HUGE difference between a person using their role as a UPS driver to perhaps convert me and a person "befriending" me as a way to convert me. The first is ok. The second makes me ill. This, to me, is one of the ways Evangelical Christianity waters down love. I don't befriend you because I seek your friendship. I befriend you because I want to convert you. It make me so ill!

 

Compound this with an adult trying to "befriend" a minor in this way. There are no words!

[freethinkermama]

Saying this doesn't make sense to me when atheistic beliefs have been used to support unspeakable evils and the dehumanization of others also.

 

Can you explain this? Show me where an atheist has said, "By my belief in no gods, I will kill thousands of people for it." Some atheists have done evil things, but none has been done for the sake of their non-deity.

 

I, in turn, will be happy to show you examples of where people have murdered thousands of others because their god commanded it.

 

I'll start! Or, should we start another thread? I don't want to hijack.

[MrsBasil]

I was an atheist, I'm now a Christian.

 

I was in a high school where Young Life was present. There were no adults in the school. It was all fellow students inviting me to get togethers. There were adults(college age) at the get togethers and they would have been happy to mentor or form relationships. The mentors came to campus with the students for things like football games or the prayer at the flagpole, but they were always open about who they were. I never felt any pressure to convert, in fact I told them that once they started talking about Creationism I was convinced Christianity wasn't for me. I was still always welcome at their events or with them.

 

Never once were any of the mentors working, volunteering at the school, or working on relationships in the school that hadn't been initiated by a student attending a Young Life event outside of school.

 

I have a positive view of Young Life based on my experience. If they are truly hiding who they are or volunteering at a school for the purpose of converting others I would be disappointed and angered.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Can you explain this? Show me where an atheist has said, "By my belief in no gods, I will kill thousands of people for it." Some atheists have done evil things, but none has been done for the sake of their non-deity.

 

I, in turn, will be happy to show you examples of where people have murdered thousands of others because their god commanded it.

 

I'll start! Or, should we start another thread? I don't want to hijack.

 

Not in the name of a non-deity but as the fruit of their belief in their autonomy and lack of accountability to any deity and the individual ways such beliefs have shaped their definition of person-hood and it's intrinsic value or lack thereof.

 

And you don't need to show me examples. I'm well aware.

[lmrich]

Again....YL can provide a safe atmosphere for teens to be teens. Yes it is a Christian atmosphere, but everything I went to it was not over the top. No one is calling "come to Jesus" no is screaming to convert. Their objective and goal (at least from what I have observed) is to walk the Christian walk. Let the teens observe young adults who are living life as Christians. Our YL leaders cared about us because they were Christians, not because we were Christians. I spent a lot of time talking to them about my friend who was Hindu. They encouraged me to be her friend, but not to judge or pressure her in any way. They explained to me that the strongest witness they can make to unbelievers and to believers is to simply love and accept all, just as Jesus did. Please don't be so quick to judge an entire organization based on some post on this board. If you have concerns about who your kids are hanging out with, find out who that person is. I might have a problem with my teen's YL leaders when he joins, but I will wait to make the judgement based on actually meeting them. Please don't put down an organization that is trying to make a positive impact on teens.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Not in the name of a non-deity but as the fruit of their belief in their autonomy and lack of accountability to any deity and the individual ways such beliefs have shaped their definition of person-hood and it's intrinsic value or lack thereof.

 

 

 

So, that would be a "no, I don't have examples", then? I ask because I have heard that reasoning before of "well, atheists have killed people and caused war and such, too!" before, but no one can ever give some concrete idea of what they are talking about and "the fruit of their belief in their autonomy and lack of accountability to any diety" is a bit vague. I don't recall learning that part of our Earth's violent past. :confused:

[Renee in NC]

I was an atheist, I'm now a Christian.

 

I was in a high school where Young Life was present. There were no adults in the school. It was all fellow students inviting me to get togethers. There were adults(college age) at the get togethers and they would have been happy to mentor or form relationships. The mentors came to campus with the students for things like football games or the prayer at the flagpole, but they were always open about who they were. I never felt any pressure to convert, in fact I told them that once they started talking about Creationism I was convinced Christianity wasn't for me. I was still always welcome at their events or with them.

 

Never once were any of the mentors working, volunteering at the school, or working on relationships in the school that hadn't been initiated by a student attending a Young Life event outside of school.

 

I have a positive view of Young Life based on my experience. If they are truly hiding who they are or volunteering at a school for the purpose of converting others I would be disappointed and angered.

 

This is exactly how I understand YL to operate.

[happyWImom]

I have read this whole thread again, and am amazed at the tone. The OP had a question about Young Life, based on what she thought were facts, numerous others have posted about their own (or people they knew) experiences-experiences which did not agree with the OP's ideas, and almost everyone here has basically ignored the positive responses and just jumped all over the "hidden agenda"! Even after the OP did more research and admitted she couldn't find facts saying that YL went into schools to "make contact".

 

As a few others (myself included) have stated, most YL volunteers have kids they already knew from church or the club who specifically invite them to sporting events or things like that. But they are totally up front about who they are and why they are there.

 

Obviously, there might be some volunteers that have behaved differently, but for so many people on this board to just automatically assume that the whole Young Life organization operates this way, and that this is their mission is shameful.

 

Why is it our automatic response to believe the negative, especially without proof?

Edited February 11, 2011 by happyWImom

[simka2]

So, that would be a "no, I don't have examples", then? I ask because I have heard that reasoning before of "well, atheists have killed people and caused war and such, too!" before, but no one can ever give some concrete idea of what they are talking about and "the fruit of their belief in their autonomy and lack of accountability to any diety" is a bit vague. I don't recall learning that part of our Earth's violent past. :confused:

 

I guess I would think...America is a diverse, secular nation...and we still dropped the bomb. I don't think spiritual people own the market on violence. Huge atrocious violence.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Again....YL can provide a safe atmosphere for teens to be teens. Yes it is a Christian atmosphere, but everything I went to it was not over the top. No one is calling "come to Jesus" no is screaming to convert. Their objective and goal (at least from what I have observed) is to walk the Christian walk. Let the teens observe young adults who are living life as Christians. Our YL leaders cared about us because they were Christians, not because we were Christians. I spent a lot of time talking to them about my friend who was Hindu. They encouraged me to be her friend, but not to judge or pressure her in any way. They explained to me that the strongest witness they can make to unbelievers and to believers is to simply love and accept all, just as Jesus did. Please don't be so quick to judge an entire organization based on some post on this board. If you have concerns about who your kids are hanging out with, find out who that person is. I might have a problem with my teen's YL leaders when he joins, but I will wait to make the judgement based on actually meeting them. Please don't put down an organization that is trying to make a positive impact on teens.

 

What you wrote IS the point. No one wants to be a project. I don't WANT anyone being MY friend or a friend to my kids in the hopes that they can convert us or change our minds on some key point.

 

If I knew you IRL and we were friends it would be just that: Friendship. If there was some aspect of our relationship/your way of living that made it impossible for the friendship to continue, then the friendship would die, I would NOT take it upon myself to "have to change you" or to "Hope that you will come around to my way of living/thinking/believing because you saw how I lived and wanted that, too". I don't value a homogenized society, I like diversity. I LIKE that my friends believe different things. I don't want us all to agree on everything or all be the same religion.

 

IMO, and I realize that others disagree, it IS sneaky, deceptive, etc. to befriend kids IN THE HOPES THAT THEY WILL BECOME A MEMBER OF YOUR RELIGION.

 

If you want to serve, then serve, but, as stated previously, if you expect anything in return IT IS A TRANSACTION, IT IS NO LONGER CHARITY AND SERVICE!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I have read this whole thread again, and am amazed at the tone. The OP had a question about Young Life, based on what she thought were facts, numerous others have posted about their own (or people they knew) experiences-experiences which did not agree with the OP's ideas, and almost everyone here has basically ignored the positive responses and just jumped all over the "hidden agenda"! Even after the OP did more research and admitted she couldn't find facts saying that YL went into schools to "make contact".

 

As a few others (myself included) have stated, most YL volunteers have kids they already knew from church or the club who specifically invite them to sporting events or things like that. But they are totally up front about who they are and why they are there.

 

Obviously, there might be some volunteers that have behaved differently, but for so many people on this board to just automatically assume that the whole Young Life organization operates this way, and that this is there mission is shameful.

 

Why is it our automatic response to believe the negative, especially without proof?

 

 

Upthread I posted a quote directly from their website. Did you read it? It spells out that they approach kids in the hopes of converting them. That is why there is a negative tone. Many think it's wrong to do that. Some do not think it's wrong to do that, as long as it's THEIR religion. ymmv

[HRAAB]

I guess I would think...America is a diverse, secular nation...and we still dropped the bomb. I don't think spiritual people own the market on violence. Huge atrocious violence.

 

I've never quite bought the idea that religion is responsible for so many of the atrocities of history. Religion does provide an excellent reason and means by which to build an army because it can be so divisive. It's much easier to incite people to go to war (and parents to send their sons off) when they're fighting for 'the one and only True God' rather than for the king's greed. If religion weren't available, I'm sure humans could find some other cause to cover up their greed and desire to oppress.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Ishki

[Murphy101]

What bothers me about these accusations of deception is that it seems there is an assumption that the services offered (ie coaching or tutoring) are not being rendered. I worked with a UPS driver that was a JW. He saw his job as a GREAT opportunity to further God's kingdom. It didn't take away from his abilities as a driver. RATHER, his abilities as a driver gave him opportunities to serve God and speak to others. He wasn't pounding on every door and demanding people's attention. He did his job WELL and people LIKED him for it. That (and God, of course) gave him all the openings he needed. People saw him for the genuine good person he was and friendships developed, as they do when we interract with worthwhile people. It wasn't that he was being deceptive and pretending to deliver packages, it was that he was GENUINE and worked honestly and hard.

 

Uhuh. I bet UPS really appreciated paying him to chat religion on the job. No one has said they aren't rendering their service. But if I send my kid for a one hour session of tutoring, when is he discussing this other stuff with my kid? I didnt send them for 45 minutes of tutoring and 15 of personal conversation. If the UPS guy is such an awesome worker, when is he chatting? Deliver package with a smile and hello, thanks. Move to next delivery.

 

If the tutor sees us outside of tutoring, say the grocery store, that is different.

 

But I'm trying to figure how it is professional to be sitting down doing math or please sign here and have a nice day could have segued into hey want to join me friday for a Christian based party?:001_huh:

 

Are you saying that you think it is appropriate for another adult, while in the course of tutoring my child (or teaching them piano or whatever), to start discussing religion with the goal of conversion, without my permission or knowledge?

 

Apparently, some are indeed okay with that. I wouldn't be.

 

I see a HUGE difference between a person using their role as a UPS driver to perhaps convert me and a person "befriending" me as a way to convert me. The first is ok. The second makes me ill.

 

I don't think either is okay! The first is flat out unprofessional. The second is insincere.

 

Compound this with an adult trying to "befriend" a minor in this way. There are no words!

 

Well the most polite I could get is possibly "icky".

[LidiyaDawn]

People keep tossing that in - what if it were a Muslim? what if it were an Atheist? what if it were [whatever]

 

I would never tell someone that they weren't allowed to try and sway us to "their side"...

 

they can try.

 

...It won't work, but they can try. :p

 

Well, I don't care to have it done, thank you. And certainly not by using the channel of the public school.

 

Take heed, lest you fall.

 

First of all, that was said somewhat jokingly - hence the smiley. ;)

 

Secondly, what do you mean by "fall"? I don't go around fearing that someone will talk me out of the truth. Why would I have that worry?

 

It's interesting to me how this thread has "public school" held up as some sort of... I don't know what word I want here.. I think it's a lot more of a USA thing (I'm Canadian) to want every last little sniff of anything faith-related out of the schools (I remember hearing about a teacher who was suspended or something for having a bible in her drawer that she read - to herself - during reading time).. which is impossible anyway.. I'm not sure how to explain what I'm thinking here, I just see it/hear it sometimes.

[Gooblink]

Can you explain this? Show me where an atheist has said, "By my belief in no gods, I will kill thousands of people for it." Some atheists have done evil things, but none has been done for the sake of their non-deity.

 

I, in turn, will be happy to show you examples of where people have murdered thousands of others because their god commanded it.

 

I'll start! Or, should we start another thread? I don't want to hijack.

 

Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Gengis Khan... The crusades were a drop in the bucket compared to the lives lost under these tyrants.

 

They were their own gods; that's what humanism is.

 

Basically, people act badly in the name of their god and people act badly answering to no god. It's people who hurt people.

[LidiyaDawn]

I don't want us all to agree on everything or all be the same religion.

 

 

 

I don't want everyone to "agree on everything" ~ but I do want *everyone* to come to know the Lord.

 

I suppose it isn't "politically correct" to say so these days, but it's true. I do want that ~ I realize, sadly, that it's never going to happen...but I do want it for everyone... how could I not?

[HRAAB]

I don't want everyone to "agree on everything" ~ but I do want *everyone* to come to know the Lord.

 

I suppose it isn't "politically correct" to say so these days, but it's true. I do want that ~ I realize, sadly, that it's never going to happen...but I do want it for everyone... how could I not?

 

I think most people can understand how you feel. Perhaps it's like a burning building. You see people dying and you want to get as many out as you can. Best analogy I can think of right now. But, it's all in how you go about it. Be up front and honest. Don't use friendship as a means to an end. If by your example and friendship, your friend down converts, that's wonderful. If you've offered an explanation of your faith, and your friend says no thank you, still be her friend. And please don't approach my children without my knowledge.

[lionfamily1999]

Communism, Darwinism/Eugenics

Are you saying that you think it is appropriate for another adult, while in the course of tutoring my child (or teaching them piano or whatever), to start discussing religion with the goal of conversion, without my permission or knowledge?

My understanding is that they INVITE people from there, not that they discuss it there. All the same, I do think people have the right to answer questions. IOW, if the child being tutored asks why someone is wearing a head covering it's alright for that person to answer, as long as it does not take up the time that is being used for tutoring.

That's just the point I was making! We may both see reasons to want to convert the other. You don't see a problem with a group going into a school and doing that. I do.

They are not converting IN the school, though. They are rendering a service, through their rendering of that service they hope to win hearts for God, so-to-speak.

I rather thought that was the incident you were referring to. I'll watch the links. I see from the web addresses that there was an apology for whatever this incident was. That sounds good. I wish all groups who overstep the line would apologize as these folks have apparently done. I don't expect that though.

The school apologized, not (I believe) the group.

Also, I see a HUGE difference between a person using their role as a UPS driver to perhaps convert me and a person "befriending" me as a way to convert me. The first is ok. The second makes me ill. This, to me, is one of the ways Evangelical Christianity waters down love. I don't befriend you because I seek your friendship. I befriend you because I want to convert you. It make me so ill!

That's just it though. You have people that do things, because of their belief in God (missions). In the process they make friends, because most of the people I know are very nice people, especially while doing their missions. It's not solely to convert you. It's because they are trying to love as God calls us to love. That's who they are. So then, conversion is ... an expression of that love, iykwIm.

Compound this with an adult trying to "befriend" a minor in this way. There are no words!

It's not supposed to be a numbers thing. Granted, I know it is for some, but it's not meant to be. It is something born of love, compassion and faith. Sure, you can strip away the whys and it's sounds grotesque, but it's not JUST conversion. That's what I'm trying to say, but I can't seem to make it clear.

Uhuh. I bet UPS really appreciated paying him to chat religion on the job. No one has said they aren't rendering their service. But if I send my kid for a one hour session of tutoring, when is he discussing this other stuff with my kid? I didnt send them for 45 minutes of tutoring and 15 of personal conversation. If the UPS guy is such an awesome worker, when is he chatting? Deliver package with a smile and hello, thanks. Move to next delivery.

From what I've read the idea is to invite them somewhere else for that. As to the UPS guy, there are always stops that have delays. That's why so many people "know" their UPS guys. There's downtime, especially in the lighter seasons. There are times when they have nothing to do except wait for their pick-ups to start. I knew another one that was a heavy freight driver. He had all kinds of time while freight was being loaded and unloaded. For him, the pay was by the mile, not the hour ;) Some of the sweetest missionaries I know are drivers for UPS.

 

If the tutor sees us outside of tutoring, say the grocery store, that is different.

 

But I'm trying to figure how it is professional to be sitting down doing math or please sign here and have a nice day could have segued into hey want to join me friday for a Christian based party?:001_huh:

When I coached soccer, I knew a lot more about my players than their names and physical abilities on the field. Those kids would chew my ears off whenever they had a minute. I've never tutored a child, but I would imagine for some it's much the same.

[HRAAB]

Communism, Darwinism/Eugenics

 

My understanding is that they INVITE people from there, not that they discuss it there. All the same, I do think people have the right to answer questions. IOW, if the child being tutored asks why someone is wearing a head covering it's alright for that person to answer, as long as it does not take up the time that is being used for tutoring.

 

I was talking about intentional evangelization. I certainly don't see anything wrong with answering questions. I am a little touchy about the subject because this has happened with my children - where an adult tried to tell them that the church they attend is not a Christian church and the only way to heaven was their way. Answering questions and actively trying to convert are two different things. One is appropriate and polite; the other is not especially when children are involved.

[simka2]

I was talking about intentional evangelization. I certainly don't see anything wrong with answering questions. I am a little touchy about the subject because this has happened with my children - where an adult tried to tell them that the church they attend is not a Christian church and the only way to heaven was their way. Answering questions and actively trying to convert are two different things. One is appropriate and polite; the other is not especially when children are involved.

 

I don't have as much an issue with these things at the Highschool level. That's where I was viewing this from. I would much rather my kids explore their questions while still under my guidance, than waiting for the "free for all" that is college! :D

 

True story, I had a peer try to tell me that my faith was not really Christian and I needed to go to her church. I thought she was cookey, and I was 16 at the time.

[HRAAB]

I don't have as much an issue with these things at the Highschool level. That's where I was viewing this from. I would much rather my kids explore their questions while still under my guidance, than waiting for the "free for all" that is college! :D

 

True story, I had a peer try to tell me that my faith was not really Christian and I needed to go to her church. I thought she was cookey, and I was 16 at the time.

 

I'll be the first to admit I have a real problem with people actively trying to convert others. It feels like an invasion into the most intimate part of my being - if that makes sense. I understand why people feel the need and that by doing so they are obeying God, but they still need to realize it's a very touch subject with many people - often times because of past experiences. And don't approach my children while they are my responsibility - even if they're in high school. Sorry, my kids, my responsibility. Come to me first. Like I said, I've got a hang up.

 

Honestly, being a true friend, showing true kindness and setting a Christ like example goes much further than active proselytizing.

[lionfamily1999]

I was talking about intentional evangelization. I certainly don't see anything wrong with answering questions. I am a little touchy about the subject because this has happened with my children - where an adult tried to tell them that the church they attend is not a Christian church and the only way to heaven was their way. Answering questions and actively trying to convert are two different things. One is appropriate and polite; the other is not especially when children are involved.

I understand. It didn't seem to me that this organization was doing that on the school's time, though. It sounded like they wanted to invite people elsewhere for all that. In that case (Mom can I go to church with so-and-so), imo, it should be expected, at least a little ;)

 

I've btdt too. I was raised non-denominational. :lol: I was told (not just by Christians) that the church I attended was weird and creepy. It was great.

[simka2]

I'll be the first to admit I have a real problem with people actively trying to convert others. It feels like an invasion into the most intimate part of my being - if that makes sense. I understand why people feel the need and that by doing so they are obeying God, but they still need to realize it's a very touch subject with many people - often times because of past experiences. And don't approach my children while they are my responsibility - even if they're in high school. Sorry, my kids, my responsibility. Come to me first. Like I said, I've got a hang up.

 

Honestly, being a true friend, showing true kindness and setting a Christ like example goes much further than active proselytizing.

 

I gotcha! and truthfully, "I" definately do not do this or think it is neccesary. But, I also know some very kind and gentle souls who do. Everyone has their own issues they bring to the table. Now, if you told my kid they had to "OBEY" a certain person in all regards or they have a Jezebel Spirit...I would FLIP!!!!

 

I understand. It didn't seem to me that this organization was doing that on the school's time, though. It sounded like they wanted to invite people elsewhere for all that. In that case (Mom can I go to church with so-and-so), imo, it should be expected, at least a little ;)

 

I've btdt too. I was raised non-denominational. :lol: I was told (not just by Christians) that the church I attended was weird and creepy. It was great.

 

:iagree:

[ereks mom]

Someone cares - deeply - about other people and wants to share the truth about Jesus with them.... that comes from love, not from 'creepy' things.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree:

[ereks mom]

I don't want everyone to "agree on everything" ~ but I do want *everyone* to come to know the Lord.

 

I suppose it isn't "politically correct" to say so these days, but it's true. I do want that ~ I realize, sadly, that it's never going to happen...but I do want it for everyone... how could I not?

 

I feel exactly the same way. :iagree:

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Gengis Khan... The crusades were a drop in the bucket compared to the lives lost under these tyrants.

 

They were their own gods; that's what humanism is.

 

Basically, people act badly in the name of their god and people act badly answering to no god. It's people who hurt people.

 

 

and the many that have been lost because of those of us (humans) who have, in the place of God, made the decision for ourselves that a unique life in the womb has no rights of it's own and is ours to do with as we please - that one has to be of a certain age before death by dismemberment or some other invention is considered an atrocious evil.

[tex-mex]

The OP said that Young Life leaders are volunteering as tutors and assistant coaches at schools, befriending the students, and then inviting them to off-campus events. This is what some people have a problem with, not the student-led clubs.

Understood.

I am speaking up not on that subject. I am adding a caveat to the discussion that many students are within their rights to invite a friend to a gathering like YL on a public school campus. If it were a school employee inviting students, wearing a necklace with a cross, keeping a Bible on their schooldesk for all students to see, etc -- that is illegal. The student has far more freedoms than the public school employee. That was my original point. It does sound like everyone is wigging out over the idea of a tutor or coach witnessing to students -- I am suspicious if this is conjecture or rumor -- as in my professional experience has taught me public schools have no tolerance of an employee behaving in this manner.

 

However, speaking as a former public school employee... if this IS indeed what took place the said tutors and staff would have been disciplined or terminated. Many school districts have been sued for these types of behaviors over the decades. Which is why most school employees working in a public school are told to not share anything personal with the student. Period. Which goes along with no hugging, no facebook friends who are students, and do not allow yourself to be in a room alone one on one with a student. I personally think the OP needs to clarify if these YL leaders are indeed doing this...? It goes against the YL policy (I just read this on their official website) and against school policy. HTH

[tex-mex]

This sort of thing is what happened at my school. The befriender was the son of the superintendent of schools. People were very upset about a non-student (he'd graduated several years earlier) wandering around campus inviting kids to a group that didn't accord with their theology. Long story short, YL was banned and the superintendent retired. I think the school became a lot more careful about controlling access after this incident.

:iagree:This backs up my previous post. Thanks for sharing.

[tex-mex]

OP here. I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but I've been thinking about it, and hoping I hadn't misrepresented the way YL works. I posted the question because my former YL-involved friends didn't want to discuss it with me.

 

I did look for some info about how/if the YL 'official' approach is to work in schools as coaches / tutors. I found this:

 

Contact work – Any instance where Young Life leaders spend time with teenagers in an informal setting is known as "contact work". Examples of contact work encouraged by Young Life staff include attending school sporting events, talking to students after school, and hanging out with teenagers during or after their school hours. Contact work is the foundation for the ministry of Young Life.

 

Now, this was on Wikipedia, so take that into consideration. I wasn't able to find the same info on YL's website. But it seems to be consistent with what I've heard. There is nothing specific about tutoring or coaching, so maybe I was misrepresenting their methods.

 

I am all for YL clubs, camps, etc. I know that they often serve large communities of kids in many ways. I do believe that they are very careful about parent permission and YL worker screening. I know that most YL events take place in private homes and never on public school campuses.

 

My husband would not be a Christian had it not been for YL. I've attended their enormous fundraising events. I assume my boys will be involved at some point.

 

But I am still concerned about their approach at public schools. I guess the bottom line for me is that I'd like for them to be completely transparent about what they do.

Just read this from the OP -- thank you for clarifying. That makes complete sense to me. It sounds like the YL leaders do not work on site as public school employees. Rather, they meet at sport events, after school practices or gatherings, and form a relationship with the students. Not during school hours. Which sounds like the info I read on the official website.

[justasque]

http://www.emu.edu/seminary/features/younglife

 

"Involvement with Young Life is one way we can be intentional about reaching unchurched kids," said Ebersole. Young Life staff and volunteers spend their time where the kids are. They go to the school cafeteria, favorite fast food hangouts, basketball games - anywhere kids are usually found.

"They build relationships with the kids and out of that they invite them to be part of a weekly gathering," Ebersole continued.

 

http://www.the-review.com/news/article/4553353

 

Young Life in Stark County is already active at Timken, Jackson and Hoover high schools, and a program is being developed at McKinley High School. “In the near future, we would like to bring it to Alliance and Marlington high schools,” Martin said.

...

 

“Our method is very unconventional; we go and build relationships with the teenagers,” Martin said. “We don’t proselytize in the schools, but we befriend and build relationships with the kids.”

Going into a school “depends on the vision of the staff at the school,” Martin said. “We haven’t had any problems going into schools and eating lunch with students, and going to after-school programs, sporting events or practices,” he added.

 

http://www.dallasisd.org/schools/realtor_new.cfm?id_con=49

South Oak Cliff High School

 

Special programs:

 

• Advanced Placement
  
• Academic Decathlon
  
• Young Life
  
• AVID
  
• Dual Credit College Courses
  

[freethinkermama]

Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Gengis Khan... The crusades were a drop in the bucket compared to the lives lost under these tyrants.

 

They were their own gods; that's what humanism is.

 

Basically, people act badly in the name of their god and people act badly answering to no god. It's people who hurt people.

 

False equivalence. None of these people did these things in the name of non-religion. They did it without religion, which is a different thing entirely. You can't draw a clear line between these men's evil and their lack of faith in a deity. There are plenty of evils you can find where people point to their deity as a reason for their evil, however. I can think of two times in the Bible off the top of my head where god commands his armies to kill every man, woman, and child in a city. He's commanding genocide. And many very lovely people on this board have plenty of rationale as to why this was ok. I used to when I was a Christian.

 

Many many people commit evils in the name of their gods because they believe their gods are commanding them to do so. Many people are willing to nod their heads and say, "yes, it's ok because god said it was/is."

 

And I have to agree that if not for religion, people would find all sorts of other reasons for killing each other, but religion has certainly been a very popular one for a very long time.

 

While evils have been committed without religion as well, I have yet to see any connection between atheism and evil. But I've certainly seen a great deal between religion and evil.

 

I'm sorry for getting off the thread here, and will sign off of this one.

[Murphy101]

People can blame any dang thing they want.

 

Their momma.

Their finances.

Drunken peyote induced visions.

God.

 

Whatever.

 

Doesn't make it so.

 

Just means that was their excuse or justification or whatever other term you care to use.

 

To blame Christianity for historical evils is just as much an error as presuming nonchristians are all immoral fools who cause the complete downfall of society.

[freethinkermama]

People can blame any dang thing they want.

 

Their momma.

Their finances.

Drunken peyote induced visions.

God.

 

Whatever.

 

Doesn't make it so.

 

Just means that was their excuse or justification or whatever other term you care to use.

 

To blame Christianity for historical evils is just as much an error as presuming nonchristians are all immoral fools who cause the complete downfall of society.

 

 

Is this to me?

 

I don't blame Christianity for all historical evils, but plenty of historical evils have been committed in the name of Christianity (and in the name of plenty of other religions) I would find that pretty difficult to dispute. If a person says they commit evil in the name of god, I'm willing to take them at their word. Since I don't believe in gods, I know it's bunk, but it sure gives plenty of people a rationale.

 

Sorry. I won't be back to this thread because it's making my blood pressure rise.

[Murphy101]

Is this to me?

 

I don't blame Christianity for all historical evils, but plenty of historical evils have been committed in the name of Christianity (and in the name of plenty of other religions) I would find that pretty difficult to dispute. If a person says they commit evil in the name of god, I'm willing to take them at their word. Since I don't believe in gods, I know it's bunk, but it sure gives plenty of people a rationale.

 

Sorry. I won't be back to this thread because it's making my blood pressure rise.

 

It was a blanket comment that applies to either side of the POV

 

People who do evil don't have a word worth squat, so taking them at their words seems rather nonsensical to me.

 

Who/what people blame for their choices is more a reflection of them than a reflection of the target of their misplaced blame.

[EarthyMama]

Never heard of it before but a quick google search came up with this: http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,15330

 

Btw, I am a Christian. Not all "Christians" are truly following Jesus.

[Amy in TX]

This is the video I saw the first time around. It is definitely tilted, but the video clips (imo) say a bit. Please note, I know that people would disagree vehemently with how Islam is portrayed. I just wanted to be 'honest' in posting the video of which I was speaking, I found a few more sources for those that wouldn't want to see an overtly tilted pov:

http://www.necn.com/09/16/10/Mosque-field-trip-controversy/landing.html?blockID=312554&feedID=4206

 

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/12002241117692/wellesley-students-visit-mosque-on-class-trip/

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/17/school-apologizes-students-pray-allah-field-trip-mosque/

 

According to the second source, the mosque director said that no one asked the boys to take part in the prayer, that that is not their policy with tour groups, and any students who took part in the prayer must have done so voluntarily, or perhaps thought they were supposed to. He apologized for the misunderstanding.

 

This is not the same as entering schools and taking positions of responsibility in order to get access to minors to convert.

[LibraryLover]

I guess I don't want to participate in the convo.

Edited February 12, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Murphy101]

I want to also note that going after kids like this is short sighted.

 

Having parents who agree and promote beliefs is much more likely, tho nothing is guaranteed, to give a minor a deep and abiding foundation.

 

Targeting kids without permission of parents might actually tear a family apart and leave painful scars on a minors faith formation.

 

As a Christian, I would no part of that.

 

And neither does my parish. Minors are forbidden joining the church or RCIA without approval of their parent(s). They can attend of course, but not join. It is very hard for grown adults to change or develop faith separate or different from their family without causing damage to relationships. It would be thoughtless to bring in minors knowing this.

[Gooblink]

False equivalence. None of these people did these things in the name of non-religion. They did it without religion, which is a different thing entirely. You can't draw a clear line between these men's evil and their lack of faith in a deity. There are plenty of evils you can find where people point to their deity as a reason for their evil, however. I can think of two times in the Bible off the top of my head where god commands his armies to kill every man, woman, and child in a city. He's commanding genocide. And many very lovely people on this board have plenty of rationale as to why this was ok. I used to when I was a Christian.

 

Many many people commit evils in the name of their gods because they believe their gods are commanding them to do so. Many people are willing to nod their heads and say, "yes, it's ok because god said it was/is."

 

And I have to agree that if not for religion, people would find all sorts of other reasons for killing each other, but religion has certainly been a very popular one for a very long time.

 

While evils have been committed without religion as well, I have yet to see any connection between atheism and evil. But I've certainly seen a great deal between religion and evil.

 

I'm sorry for getting off the thread here, and will sign off of this one.

 

Then you are blind.

[lionfamily1999]

According to the second source, the mosque director said that no one asked the boys to take part in the prayer, that that is not their policy with tour groups, and any students who took part in the prayer must have done so voluntarily, or perhaps thought they were supposed to. He apologized for the misunderstanding.

 

This is not the same as entering schools and taking positions of responsibility in order to get access to minors to convert.

You're right, they weren't forced to take part. Sort of like having a prayer over food or before a game, but wait........ if it's a Christian prayer then it's coercing, but having students sit in on morning prayers in a mosque, that's educational ;)

 

No, it's not the same thing. They LIED and used it to try and convert kids. They did not do what they claimed they were going to do. Nothing that I've read has said that this Young Life group is NOT doing whatever service they're offering. It does not say that there is some sort of lie involved. They do what they say they will do and hope it gives them an opening to do more.

[PiCO]

Then you are blind.

 

Resorting to name-calling now, are we? ;)

[PiCO]

Exactly why many folks - of different religions - keep their kids out of public school.

 

I agree. I'm an atheist and I started homeschooling to save my kids being evangelized and/or told they were going to hell for not believing that Jesus was their savior.

[PiCO]

Really? It's not like anybody's being held at gunpoint (except the missionaries, in many cases). If someone is going to accept "salvation" why would you - or anybody - have a problem with that?

 

Missionaries have done their share of damage trying to get people "saved". I think the loss of native cultures around the world is a travesty. The Indian Boarding Schools ripped apart Native American cultures.

[Audrey]

I agree. I'm an atheist and I started homeschooling to save my kids being evangelized and/or told they were going to hell for not believing that Jesus was their savior.

 

That was my reason #2 for homeschooling. They hold catechism class during the school day, in the classroom. You have to sit there whether you are going to do the confirmation or not (or communion, or whatever it is that you have to have the catechism class for). It is a public school, but as I was told "this may be a public school, but this is a Catholic town and we've always done it this way." You can complain, but the province allows "religious exercises" to be approved by the schoolboards as long as the majority of parents approve.

 

Okey-dokey. :rolleyes:

 

ETA: I bowing out of this thread now. Some of the responses are making me feel even squickier than usual about the intentions of certain Christians.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Audrey

[mommaduck]

That was my reason #2 for homeschooling. They hold catechism class during the school day, in the classroom. You have to sit there whether you are going to do the confirmation or not (or communion, or whatever it is that you have to have the catechism class for). It is a public school, but as I was told "this may be a public school, but this is a Catholic town and we've always done it this way." You can complain, but the province allows "religious exercises" to be approved by the schoolboards as long as the majority of parents approve.

 

Okey-dokey. :rolleyes:

 

ETA: I bowing out of this thread now. Some of the responses are making me feel even squickier than usual about the intentions of certain Christians.

 

I think it's a bad night from what I'm reading in this thread and the other :(

 

Time for :chillpill: (in general, no one specific ;) )

[Gooblink]

Resorting to name-calling now, are we? ;)

 

By no means. :tongue_smilie:

 

I just believe that anyone who can't see a connection between atheism and evil, but is willing to make the connection between religion and evil, is blinded - at least in one eye.

 

Evil is a people thing - not unique to religion, not unique to atheism. The whole 'religion being responsible for evil in the world' argument is a straw man.

 

I really meant no personal offense.

[Barb_]

Never heard of it before but a quick google search came up with this: http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?14,15330

 

Btw, I am a Christian. Not all "Christians" are truly following Jesus.

 

Thank you for sharing this. It made for interesting reading. I remember Young Life from the 80s and while we all believed it was some weird christian fringe cult my friends and I went to their meetings for the free McDonalds they gave us. Anyway, here is one mom's experience cut and pasted from the link above:

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Last week my 13 year old son asked if he could go with a group of boys to a "nature thing" where there would be food and games. At first I said no because I knew nothing about it. I told him I would check with the mother of one of the boys who had gone to several other meetings before I would allow him to go. She said she thought it was the Youth Group of the church where the event was taking place and that yet another of the boys belonged to that church and had been inviting his friends to go with him. She was certain it would be fine and the boys had fun and it was a safe, warm place to be on a Friday night - but it had nothing to do with nature. She said it was called Wyldlife and that there was just a short period of discussion at the end, but the discussion was more along the lines of being a good friend and person in general. I was leery about allowing him to go because when I was active in my Youth Group, a large (7 or 8) number of 13 year old boys just showing up would have been disruptive. Yes, we all brought a friend now and then, but this seemed like a lot. My radar went up immediately, but he was very persistent and it seemed like I was overreacting so off he went.

 

When a friend dropped him home and I asked what the evening consisted of, he said, "We played a bunch of games and there was pizza. That was fun. But the talking about Jesus part was boring." I inquired more and we talked a while. I tried not to become uneasy, but there was no way to hide it. I was raised Lutheran and had a wonderful life in the church but have since become disillusioned with organized religion in general. I consider myself very spiritual and have a deep connection to God, but I no longer consider myself Christian, so having others introduce my children to a belief system I don't share is frightening. But I don't want to cut them off from what may feel right to them so when he asked to go to Wyldlife Wednesday 3 days ago I allowed it. My 11 year old daughter had also been invited by her friend to attend and I reluctantly let her go too. Not until I picked them up and was given a small flyer with the Wyldlife schedule and website address on it did I even realize this group had no real affiliation to the Presbyterian church where they were meeting. I went to the Young Life website and have been researching since.

 

I believe that the information provided at their own website is enough to frighten any parent. Particularly parents who are not Christian. My biggest concern is that my children would be indoctrinated into a religion I do not believe in. But I am simply appalled by the fact that this is not kids bringing in kids, but adults seeking out my underage children in order to press their beliefs upon them. What I discovered was that the leader of this group is a substitute teacher at my children's Middle School and had used her position of authority in a public school to encourage participation in a religious activity. While I believe she is probably a good person doing what she believes is a good thing for children, it smacks of predator behavior to me. We teach our children not to open emails or answer the phone if they don't know who it is. We teach them not to talk to strangers and not to go to chat rooms. Why, in God's name, would it be OK for an adult I don't know to hang out where children are and recruit them into a religious organization?! I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

I have contacted the parents of the kids I know who have attended in order to fill them in on the fact that this is not the local youth group and to express my own concerns. I included a link to the Young Life website, which I believe has all the information needed to cause a parent to put their guard up. My Google searches provided very little beyond pages and pages and pages of sites created by Young Life groups, so I was very relieved to find this forum. I want to thank Phoenixgirl particularly for your straightforward, intelligent and reasoned comments. They have been a validation for me, knowing that I am not overreacting but rather protecting my children. The responses from the 5 parents I contacted have been appreciative. One is livid as he is Jewish and had no idea his son was even attending. Another was frightened as she had watched a family friend give all of her life and possessions to Opus Dei (?), the others felt the warning was justified and while they will continue to allow their children to participate, they will be doing more research of their own, will be contacting the Wyldlife leader and most importantly, they will be having more in depth discussion with their children.

 

I am sending the leader an email letting her know that we do not want her or anyone representing her group to contact my children. The kids were all asked for their email addresses and phone numbers so it is important to me that I make it clear that she not use them. I will be letting the principal of the school know that the substitue is abusing her position. What is most important is that my kids and I had a lengthy and very interesting conversation about it all today. I wanted them to know that their dad and I would no longer be allowing them to attend Wyldlife and we talked about exactly why. I told them that most of what we found objectionable was provided by the group itself and that they were welcome to navigate the site to see for themselves. We talked about religion and spirituality and about searching and the need for questions to be asked and their right to seek out the answers. It was a wonderful talk and I feel that they fully understand and are OK with our decision. (Important, as we didn't want them to rebel and attend without our knowledge)

 

I apologize for this lengthy post, but I think as many different circumstances as can be represented can only be helpful to those looking for others with experience. Thanks again for this forum and for sharing your experiences.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Gooblink]

I agree. I'm an atheist and I started homeschooling to save my kids being evangelized and/or told they were going to hell for not believing that Jesus was their savior.

 

Well, awesome! That was my point and I'm thankful we have the freedom to choose how we educate our children.

 

My whole family is atheist and I love them and I don't even try to convert them. :)

[MrsBasil]

What I discovered was that the leader of this group is a substitute teacher at my children's Middle School and had used her position of authority in a public school to encourage participation in a religious activity.

 

Wow, I would not be OK with that. As I said, my experience was entirely, for lack of a better term, student led. The Young Life members never worked at or volunteered at our school.

 

That a teacher would do that is really disconcerting.

[Amy in TX]

You're right, they weren't forced to take part. Sort of like having a prayer over food or before a game, but wait........ if it's a Christian prayer then it's coercing, but having students sit in on morning prayers in a mosque, that's educational ;)

 

No, it's not the same thing. They LIED and used it to try and convert kids. They did not do what they claimed they were going to do. Nothing that I've read has said that this Young Life group is NOT doing whatever service they're offering. It does not say that there is some sort of lie involved. They do what they say they will do and hope it gives them an opening to do more.

 

No, from what I read, there was no intent for the kids to *join* the prayer; only to *watch* the prayer. They were touring a mosque, to see what Muslims do. This makes sense. Like, say, if a Protestant family attended a Catholic wedding, and the Protestant children were to automatically follow the motions of the Catholics--standing, kneeling, sitting, at the prescribed times in the service. The parent might then tell the child, no, we're not participating, only watching. I've seen this happen.

 

It's not comparable to prayers being held at a function of a secular organization such as a public school's football game. It's also not comparable to people going into a public school and taking positions of authority over minors with the hidden agenda of influencing them religiously.