WWYD--Dear woman at bible study has severe chem sensitivities

[Audrey]

The OP's situation sounds very annoying.

 

Woman A says, "I have bad reactions to perfume. Can you not wear it to the meetings?"

 

Woman B is put off center and responds poorly. Was she REALLY offended? We don't know. Maybe she just frowned and looked funny because she was processing what was said.

 

Woman A then retreats into a shell, won't come to the meetings anymore, and won't even allow the leader to say, "Hey guys! Some of us here have reactions to perfume. Let's all make a point not to wear it to the meetings."

 

I don't know if Woman B meant to be mean about it or not, but Woman A isn't even giving Woman B a chance to be gracious.

 

Can you tell that it's a personal pet peeve of mine when women do that thing where they get sooooooo non-confrontational that they turn into martyrs. "No, no. I will just sit alone at home because someone gave me a funny look. It's ok. I'll be alright...all alone and pathetic."

 

Ok--I'm probably reading too much into it...but it is a personal pet peeve. I have some friends who do that and I think they call it passive-aggressiveness.

 

 

OR, maybe Woman B was overtly rude and intended to be nasty about it and really hurt Woman A. Who knows?!?

 

It's called being passive-aggressive and I hate that, too. Pull on some big girl panties and say what you mean.

[Carol in Cal.]

You all don't all understand.

That catch in your throat when you walk up the detergent aisle, because the tiny little scent in the air can start to close your throat up...

The coughing (really, really hard) in church after the offering, because someone walked by who used strongly scented deoderant...

The panic of feeling your windpipe swell up, and having to stay very, very calm (to keep from breathing too hard, triggering a faster closure), breath slowly and deeply while you still can, and decide whether calling 911 or hitting the inhaler, hard, is the first priority...

 

This is serious stuff, guys. It's not a matter of preference or being passive aggressive. It is a SERIOUS health issue.

[Murphy101]

No I think we all do understand.

 

Yet don't feel it reasonable to expect the world to create a bubble for every sensitivity.

 

It sucks big time for some.

 

No doubt about that at all.

 

But it simply is not possible to have a personally sanitized world and making it so wouldn't make it healthier.

 

:grouphug:

[Janie Grace]

I once had a labor and delivery nurse who was SO doused in perfume I almost puked on her. You'd think *they* would know better, wouldn't you?

[Audrey]

No I think we all do understand.

 

Yet don't feel it reasonable to expect the world to create a bubble for every sensitivity.

 

It sucks big time for some.

 

No doubt about that at all.

 

But it simply is not possible to have a personally sanitized world and making it so wouldn't make it healthier.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Perfectly stated. :001_smile:

[tex-mex]

No I think we all do understand.

 

Yet don't feel it reasonable to expect the world to create a bubble for every sensitivity.

 

It sucks big time for some.

 

No doubt about that at all.

 

But it simply is not possible to have a personally sanitized world and making it so wouldn't make it healthier.

 

:grouphug:

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[mommaduck]

I once had a labor and delivery nurse who was SO doused in perfume I almost puked on her. You'd think *they* would know better, wouldn't you?

Wow! Any L&D floor I've ever been on had a staff rule that you do NOT wear any perfume or any perfumed lotion, etc.

[Murphy101]

Wow! Any L&D floor I've ever been on had a staff rule that you do NOT wear any perfume or any perfumed lotion, etc.

 

Yes. But not a rule against breath mints. Bless the heart of the nurse I gasped to get OUT! right before I threw up on the bed. She thought I meant move so I can puke. Dh told her, no, get OUT! Spit out the mint somewhere and rinse your mouth before you come back! Your breath is making her sick. She can't handle mint! OUT! She was rather shocked to say the least. But she stomped out pronto.

 

Did I mention I was in the middle of pushing when she got in my face to help me Lamaze breath through it?:ack2:

[Carol in Cal.]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Life threatened is different than sensitive. Just sayin'. Kind of the point.

[Murphy101]

Life threatened is different than sensitive. Just sayin'. Kind of the point.

 

Not really made then.

 

Life is life threatening.

 

Where does it end?

 

If we try to eliminate everything that is life threatening, even if only for a small portion of society - we might as well sit in bubbles.

 

But then there are those with life threatening reactions to latex or plastics...

[Colleen in NS]

This is serious stuff, guys. It's not a matter of preference or being passive aggressive. It is a SERIOUS health issue.

 

Life threatened is different than sensitive. Just sayin'. Kind of the point.

 

And if I was Chris's Dear Woman, I'd be quietly picking you out, too, as someone else whom I might be able to talk with.

 

Some who deal with dangerous allergies are going to be aggressive in stating needs (I thank God for those organizations who rally for the cause), and some of us are just going to be quiet and figure out whom we can trust and be comfortable around.

[PeterPan]

I think we're looking at two different issues here. It's one thing to have a physiological reaction to a scent (like needing an inhaler) and another to just be annoyed by someone's perfume. I agree that if someone in the group has a physical or medical reaction to something then if at all possible, deference should be given to the person who's allergic. But I think it's rude to expect someone to not wear their perfume simply because someone else doesn't like it. I also think it's unrealistic to expect an entire congregation to be completely scent-free because a few are annoyed by scent.

 

I have a friend who wears a scent I absolutely can't stand. I think she smells like dirt when she wears it. But it's her favorite scent and she loves it and it makes her feel good. Who am I to ask her not to wear it around me? That's just selfish.

 

You're saying this because you don't understand what actually happens. The body goes into a fright/flight danger mode and the person has an extremely hard time chilling that down. When I was chemically sensitive I would become EXTREMELY agitated (out of character, uncontrollably). It's not volitional at that point because it's physical.

 

Unfortunately, there aren't great answers. The group (church, Bible study, whatever) can decide to try to accommodate, and they may or may not be successful. I remember when the pastor and his wife and kids came over to the house. I started flipping out, because their fragrance was bothering me so incredibly, and it was their DETERGENT. Most people aren't going to change their detergent for you. That's just reality.

 

Opening the window won't help unless it's a nice spring day and you have a huge breeze, lol. But what actually does help is a larger space. Or as my engineer dh puts it: dilution is the solution to pollution. Larger space, more air, more for the fragrance to spread out and dilute. It also gives her room to move away from the problem but still hear.

 

I would respect the woman's privacy and do as she asked (not saying anything). If you talk with her and can come up with some workable solultions, that would be great. You start to feel pretty alone when you're chemically sensitive. The biggest thing is not to leave her alone. If the big group doesn't work, then go visit her once a week yourself. That's what I wish people had done for me, having btdt.

[Garga]

You all don't all understand.

 

 

This is serious stuff, guys. It's not a matter of preference or being passive aggressive. It is a SERIOUS health issue.

 

 

No no no. The allergic reaction isn't the passive aggressive part.

 

The passive aggressive part is that the allergic woman told the leader of the group NOT TO SAY ANYTHING. Instead of allowing the women of the group to meet her need, she is pulling back into a shell.

 

The allergic woman said something to a perfume wearer. The wearer gave her a funny look. Instead of asking the perfume wearer if she understands the problem, the allergic person is just running back home and hiding. It's being non-confrontational to the point of isolation. And instead of letting the leader of the group address the issue, she's put a gag on the leader.

 

THAT is the annoying behavior. The allergy part has nothing to do with it. It's the fact that the allergy sufferer isn't letting anyone help her and THAT smacks of martyrdom to me and THAT is my pet peeve.

[PeterPan]

No no no. The allergic reaction isn't the passive aggressive part.

 

The passive aggressive part is that the allergic woman told the leader of the group NOT TO SAY ANYTHING. Instead of allowing the women of the group to meet her need, she is pulling back into a shell.

 

The allergic woman said something to a perfume wearer. The wearer gave her a funny look. Instead of asking the perfume wearer if she understands the problem, the allergic person is just running back home and hiding. It's being non-confrontational to the point of isolation. And instead of letting the leader of the group address the issue, she's put a gag on the leader.

 

THAT is the annoying behavior. The allergy part has nothing to do with it. It's the fact that the allergy sufferer isn't letting anyone help her and THAT smacks of martyrdom to me and THAT is my pet peeve.

 

Oh come on. Now the woman has to have the problem, research how to help herself, deal with constantly problems, confront people who aren't going to be able to help or change most of the time, AND psychoanalyze herself? I mean for pete's sake... Extend the woman a LITTLE grace.

[Murphy101]

Oh come on. Now the woman has to have the problem, research how to help herself, deal with constantly problems, confront people who aren't going to be able to help or change most of the time, AND psychoanalyze herself? I mean for pete's sake... Extend the woman a LITTLE grace.

 

No. The woman doesn't have to do anything.

 

I agree. If she doesn't want anything further said, oh well, not the leaders problem. End of issue.

 

If she did, then she should say so or let it go.

 

The leader is the OP here, so only she can say if the woman was acting like a martyr or not.

[OnTheBrink]

You're saying this because you don't understand what actually happens. The body goes into a fright/flight danger mode and the person has an extremely hard time chilling that down. When I was chemically sensitive I would become EXTREMELY agitated (out of character, uncontrollably). It's not volitional at that point because it's physical.

 

Unfortunately, there aren't great answers. The group (church, Bible study, whatever) can decide to try to accommodate, and they may or may not be successful. I remember when the pastor and his wife and kids came over to the house. I started flipping out, because their fragrance was bothering me so incredibly, and it was their DETERGENT. Most people aren't going to change their detergent for you. That's just reality.

 

Opening the window won't help unless it's a nice spring day and you have a huge breeze, lol. But what actually does help is a larger space. Or as my engineer dh puts it: dilution is the solution to pollution. Larger space, more air, more for the fragrance to spread out and dilute. It also gives her room to move away from the problem but still hear.

 

I would respect the woman's privacy and do as she asked (not saying anything). If you talk with her and can come up with some workable solultions, that would be great. You start to feel pretty alone when you're chemically sensitive. The biggest thing is not to leave her alone. If the big group doesn't work, then go visit her once a week yourself. That's what I wish people had done for me, having btdt.

 

No, I understand the issue quite well, thanks. As I previously stated, there is a difference between being annoyed at someone's scent and legitimate health issue. I also previously stated that deference should be given to one with a legit health issue.

 

If you have a health-related reaction to my lotion, then I won't wear it around you. If you just don't like it and are annoyed that I wear it, tough.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I wish more churches would have an occasional reminder that perfumes can be overwhelming to people who cannot tolerate them. I swear the older these people get the more they wear!

 

I had a sneezing fit at a ladies meeting at church once and the lady who caused it asked me if I was sick...she was trying to move away from ME, lol! I said I was sensitive to perfume but she didn't get a hint! AAHHHH

 

 

So yes, I think it's ok to ask for no perfume especially for small group meetings b/c it's a small space

[Garga]

Oh come on. Now the woman has to have the problem, research how to help herself, deal with constantly problems, confront people who aren't going to be able to help or change most of the time, AND psychoanalyze herself? I mean for pete's sake... Extend the woman a LITTLE grace.

 

I guess it's just a personality type that bugs me. I have a couple of people who are "friends" who misinterpret people's faces all the time. "I knew she was mad because she gave me an angry look." But most of their interpretations are wrong. This is why I put "friends" in quotes, because they probably think I'm mad at them all the time. They walk around "hurt" most of their lives because people are always "mad" at them. They like to play the role of the wounded party.

 

It just bothers me to pieces that when someone has a real live issue that needs to be addressed, that they won't let it be addressed. They'll tentatively say something, see an "angry look" and then run away. I find that behavior really irritating.

 

Has the OP told us yet what's happened with this? The person who was supposedly all bent out of shape for wearing perfume is a close friend of the OP. OP: is your friend the sort of person to keep wearing perfume around someone with an allergy and get miffed if someone has an allergy to it?

 

 

In the last bible study I attended, there was a woman with allergies to perfume. The leader told us about it, and we didn't wear perfume. It wasn't a big deal. Why won't the allergic person in this scenario even let the leader announce it to everyone?

 

 

Not that it matters, guys. I should just stop responding. The two women are probably both sweethearts and this is all a strange miscommunication. (That no one is allowed to resolve...oooo--stop stop stop, bad Garga, bad!)

[MariannNOVA]

You start to feel pretty alone when you're chemically sensitive. .

 

 

THIS is what had happened to my dd30 who has MCS. I had stopped wearing fragrance, my dh had stopped wearing it, and finally I told her that she would have to 'find her voice' and speak up - and I kindly told her (b/c I love her dearly) NOT to be a martyr and to say something at places where it was important AND manageable......i.e., Wegman's is not the place to expect that folks won't be wearing fragrance -- so stay out of Wegman's --- yes, I told her this. The doctor's office where dd goes for her IV treatments IS a place where one can expect to find an area that is fragrance-free so she did finally speak up there. One of the IV nurses was always literally doused in fragrance -- one patient passed out from it, and shortly thereafter (dd spoke to the doctor) signs were posted and the policy is followed.

 

It would be, imo, impossible to make the world a perfect place for everyone with MCS. And, I am talking about the physical reaction to the chemicals IN the fragrances NOT the 'ooooh, I don't like that smell it makes me sick' issue. There is a difference.

 

My sister wears Estee Lauder -- I have always hated any fragrance by Estee Lauder -- and I hate White Shoulders by whomever makes it -- just too heavy and not to my liking - but I don't pass out from them, I do not have an MCS reaction to them. It is an issue of I just don't care for it, and it does make me headache-y and sick to my stomach. So, I don't feel it is necessary to say anything about it. If asked, I would say that it is not a fragrance that I care for.

 

My dd missed the brunch we had at our home after our twins' first communion b/c the friend I invited wears alot of scent.......it had never occured to me not to ask her. Now I know -- if J and my daughter are going to be present at something, I ask J if it would be okay if she didn't wear fragrance b/c dd cannot tolerate the scent. DD does have a liver issue (is it that she doesn't make glutathione or something like that?) and her reactions are physical, involuntary, and I think should be respected -- on the other hand, she and I also speak about how there are certainly many many places where she cannot be accomodated -- and that's life.

 

Just my .02 --

[ocelotmom]

I don't understand people who put their desire to wear perfume above the health of others. I had a boss once who thought "Other people have complimented me on my perfume" was reason enough to wear it, despite both my co-worker and I having problems with it (she had asthma, I got headaches). I guess maybe they think we're making it up because we simply don't like the smell?

[PeterPan]

Actually, the ADA (americans with disabilities act) gives you rights in the workplace, meaning you can expect reasonable accommodation.

[Wyndie]

It just bothers me to pieces that when someone has a real live issue that needs to be addressed, that they won't let it be addressed. They'll tentatively say something, see an "angry look" and then run away. I find that behavior really irritating.

 

 

 

Sometimes if a person is "new" to this lifestyle, they haven't yet gotten brave about taking action for themselves. My friend at church who is like this is in no way a martyr but only with multiple communications with me did she understand the need to speak up. She is more worried about offending or inconveniencing others and it's really just b/c her sensitivities are new to her.

[MariannNOVA]

Actually, the ADA (americans with disabilities act) gives you rights in the workplace, meaning you can expect reasonable accommodation.

 

This is what I thought as well.:)

[Tammyla]

But, the woman did talk to the woman who had the perfume on, and the lady blew her off. I don't think the lady was passive aggressive. She tried, the other lady didn't offer sympathy and wearing less, so she decided not to attend and spoke with the leader.

 

 

I'd say since her reaction was breathing related, she did the best she could in a difficult situation, and wasn't acting like a martyr at all. Sensitivity is one thing, but not being able to breath is another. ymmv

 

Sometimes if a person is "new" to this lifestyle, they haven't yet gotten brave about taking action for themselves. My friend at church who is like this is in no way a martyr but only with multiple communications with me did she understand the need to speak up. She is more worried about offending or inconveniencing others and it's really just b/c her sensitivities are new to her.

 

:iagree:

[tex-mex]

Life threatened is different than sensitive. Just sayin'. Kind of the point.

Hmmmm? Obviously you failed to read my previous post on this thread -- stating that son and I have a rare liver disease. A simple cold or flu can cause hyperammonemia (leading to brain damage, coma or death) and hospitalize us.

 

Believe me, I know EXACTLY what life threatened means by simply going to the store or library in cold/flu season. ;) With our disease well documented, son and I qualify for ADA style of accomodations in public schools or workplace. We both also qualify for SSI/Disability. But do I demand the world or group cater to my demands? No. Just sayin'.

[Melissa in Australia]

I haven't read all the replies.

My Dh has work related injuries that left him with Multiple Chemical Sensitivities. He is so sensitive that he is practically housebound, and is on a legal disability pension because he cannot work.

When he started getting sick, we asked our church if they could please ask people to not wear sent etc. as DH was so badly affected. it was only a small church, with 30 people . they always were preaching about brotherly love etc... well we were told that it was our own problem, and there it was other peoples rights to wear perfume etc if they wanted... After years of trying to work out a solution, including sitting out in the car-park with speaker, phone hookups etc, we just gave up.

[Slartibartfast]

I have sensitivities to chemicals. I rarely have issues with other people wearing so much perfume that it bothers me but it does happen.

 

I use certain detergents, I don't use fabric softener, I use a lot of fragrance free cosmetics or cosmetics containing essential oils. Many "unscented" items contain a "masking" scent so it is fragranced, it is just designed to not clash with your perfume. You can find things that do not contain fragrance but you do really have to look. I generally can find things like that at a NFS.

 

I make a lot of my own stuff when I have time. Essential Oils don't usually bother me, it is generally the fake stuff like Bath and Body Works or other things like that.

[PeterPan]

Hmmmm? Obviously you failed to read my previous post on this thread -- stating that son and I have a rare liver disease. A simple cold or flu can cause hyperammonemia (leading to brain damage, coma or death) and hospitalize us.

 

Believe me, I know EXACTLY what life threatened means by simply going to the store or library in cold/flu season. ;) With our disease well documented, son and I qualify for ADA style of accomodations in public schools or workplace. We both also qualify for SSI/Disability. But do I demand the world or group cater to my demands? No. Just sayin'.

 

While I understand your point, you're struggling with something pretty hard for people to change (carrying a virus), where apply scent is relatively easy to change. There are congregations who decide as a whole to make this move. It's not an unheard of thing because it is such a common problem.

[PeterPan]

Melissa, I just wanted to say I really feel for you. I was housebound for quite a while, so I know how it feels. Eat organic, lots of fresh fruits and veges. It's a hard thing to deal with.

[Melissa in Australia]

Life threatened is different than sensitive. Just sayin'. Kind of the point.

 

you are correct. But Multiple Chemical Sensitivities can leave you so ill that life doesn't seem worth living.

a bad episode can leave my DH lying on the veranda in a semi conscious state, he will then be a walking Zombie for a few days. True he hasn't needed to be rushed to hospital for an anaphylactic reaction, but his quality of life becomes very low.

[Melissa in Australia]

Melissa, I just wanted to say I really feel for you. I was housebound for quite a while, so I know how it feels. Eat organic, lots of fresh fruits and veges. It's a hard thing to deal with.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. We live an almost complete self sufficient life, and live in the bush away from people, which helps my husband greatly.

[tex-mex]

While I understand your point, you're struggling with something pretty hard for people to change (carrying a virus), where apply scent is relatively easy to change. There are congregations who decide as a whole to make this move. It's not an unheard of thing because it is such a common problem.

I think we are agreeing on the same thing -- scent is easily changed. A virus is not easy to rid of. In the case of one poster's (MelissaL) dh being disabled to the point where his multiple sensitivities (along with other dx) is debilitating is making him homebound. That is legitimate. He cannot go outside. I am homebound as well due to viruses abound during this time of the year.

 

I believe I was addressing Carol in CA? (Can't recall... LOL) As she told me it was a life threatening issue with scents. I replied back to her that I knew exactly what she was talking about. To which you replied. But as we both acknowledge, a scent is easily taken care of or avoided in the real world. But a virus is not that easily avoided, in my case. Looking at it from my perspective, if it offends you or causes an anaphaylactic type of of shock (trip to the ER) -- change the scenario and avoid it. Or be bold and state your concern to the group leader and make a change -- but in my experience (i.e. virus related) that doesn't always work. You cannot change the world to suit your situation, kwim? Moving on... ;)

[tex-mex]

Thank you for your thoughts. We live an almost complete self sufficient life, and live in the bush away from people, which helps my husband greatly.

Just wanted to give a shout out and hugs to hubs from us. It just sucks. But am glad he is doing better. Son and I are homebound half the year during cold/flu season due to our rare liver disease. Cabin fever hits us bad. Hang in there. :grouphug:

[PeterPan]

Melissa, I should come live with you! I'd give anything to get away from cell towers and whatnot. And yes, whatever I do takes a week to bounce back from. It's pretty consistent at one week, and I don't know why. Are his bowels moving? If not, he needs enough fruits, veges, dried fruit, and magnesium to get them consistent. Once he has that, you could do small amounts of pomegranate juice. For years I took the juice of a lemon (in 8 oz. water) every night before bed on the advice of my nutritionist. It has a sort of slow, gentle cleansing effect on the liver. Pomegranate juice is stronger, a lot stronger. But if you don't have access to other options, they're things you can do at home. The main thing though is to eat the good food, organic food, and put the healing in. It took years to get me well, and even so I can be damaged pretty easily. There are no quick fixes, and some of the supplements and things you take trying to help yourself actually add to your liver load and make it worse. I have a friend who was Dursban-poisoned 20-some years ago, and she's still very sick. Extreme diets that some people advocate can actually push you over the edge and give you cancer. I've known just a few mcsers to get it...

[mommaduck]

Spammer reported.

[PeterPan]

Spammer reported.

 

Could I just admit I'm blind and trying to figure out who the spammer is???

[Carol in Cal.]

you are correct. But Multiple Chemical Sensitivities can leave you so ill that life doesn't seem worth living.

a bad episode can leave my DH lying on the veranda in a semi conscious state, he will then be a walking Zombie for a few days. True he hasn't needed to be rushed to hospital for an anaphylactic reaction, but his quality of life becomes very low.

 

I know, and I'm completely in sympathy with this position. When I said 'sensitive', I meant in the 'I don't like this smell' way, and I meant to distinguish that from the 'this smell actually causes me a serious health issue (as for your DH) way'.

[mommaduck]

Could I just admit I'm blind and trying to figure out who the spammer is???

It's been removed.

[Murphy101]

Actually, the ADA (americans with disabilities act) gives you rights in the workplace, meaning you can expect reasonable accommodation.

 

Yes. It is actually a form of harassment to knowingly, purposely and unreasonably make the workplace physically uncomfortable for employees or coworkers.

 

While I understand your point, you're struggling with something pretty hard for people to change (carrying a virus), where apply scent is relatively easy to change. There are congregations who decide as a whole to make this move. It's not an unheard of thing because it is such a common problem.

 

No. It is just as hard to irradicate scents. They are everywhere. You cannot go anywhere without there being smells of some kind.

 

You might have an issue with a certain smell. Someone else might have an issue with a different smell.

 

It gets to be a bit ridiculous to expect everyone everywhere to try to become scentless or to create a scentless environment.

[forty-two]

I mentioned the OP to my dh, a pastor, and he commented that in seminary they told them to just not wear cologne or anything like that - that it just isn't worth it.

[ocelotmom]

Actually, the ADA (americans with disabilities act) gives you rights in the workplace, meaning you can expect reasonable accommodation.

Oh, this was years ago, and I don't work there anymore :)

 

We did have a big talk with her and let her know that we'd escalate the issue if necessary, and she did stop wearing it after that. Mostly. She still would on days when she had big meetings. I think she thought noticable scent was a sign of professionalism or something.