busymom Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 It sounds horrible doesn't it? Our adopted 4 year old was originally a foster child. His parents have a list of disorders including bipolar, scizephrenia, oppositional defiance disorder, and who knows what else. He was adopted by another couple, and they failed the adoption because he had become out of control. We were his respite givers for years and hadn't seen the behavior, although I had seen video of his rages, and heard him while I was on the phone with his parents. We decided to take him on with the hope that he would continue to do better in our home. The therapist was guessing that he was better in our home because he wasn't the oldest in our home like he was previously. His current psychologist is in her late 50's and says he is the worst case of ODD that she has ever seen. He is on the absolutely highest dose of Abilify that his weight can support, and he is still having random rages. He has started kicking the animals, and attacking my kids and me. I'm 34 weeks pregnant and am terrified that he will hurt the newborn! He is highly intelligent, though he plays dumb when it suits him. They want me to put him in a theraputic preschool class, but he is so much worse at home during the evening and weekends when he spends his days elsewhere. He gets glowing reports at school, but then it is like he punishes us when he gets home. We haven't even had him a year, and I just want him moved. I don't feel my kids are safe being in a room alone with him. He can be playing perfectly fine, and suddenly go into a violent rage. He knows my 6 year old often has severe tummy pain and that is where he hits her, for me it is my belly, and for his first mom it was her back (she had multiple surgeries on her back so it was her weakest spot), he attacked his previous father at the knees.. again he had bad knees. Scary that someone who is supposedly out of control when in attack mode knows where to attack to make it count most. He had been caught in the act of choking his younger adopted brother twice in the month before they dropped him off on our doorstep. We told everyone we were willing to work with him until the violence started, and then we would be done. All docs and lawyers said that was fine, it would give him another chance and if he did go violent it would be proof that he needed to be put in an institute. Now they are telling me that if the doctors see it is needed they can have him commited for a year. I'm scared it is going to take one of us really getting hurt to make them see the need. Please pray, and if you have experienced anything like this I would love to know. I feel so alone, he can be the most perfect child when he wants to be, and only a select few have actually seen his behavior outside of our home. His pediatrician flat out told me he has seen him since he was a baby and there is nothing else he can do, other than treat common colds. He suggested I find another doctor. He told me he has never seen another child like Jayden and feels completely out of his element when trying to work with him. Thanks for listening to my ramble. Jen, Mom of 7 plus kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug: I can't even imagine. I am so sorry. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Oh Jen, I know nothing of the system or your options, but I do suggest strongly that you become ADAMANT about his going. I cannot fathom the potential danger to your young one, and you need to listen to your gut. What a horrible mess. So does the agency through which he was placed offer you no help or options?? Why is he only on Abilify? There are drugs for violence too. Has he been to a psychiatrist? He may have had exposures in-utero that are going to make this a problem for the rest of his life. I have a cousin, bless his soul, in an institution for severe brain damage from being beaten by an alcoholic father. They put him on a whole litany of things, including meds for violence. I feel bad for what you're going through, but I wouldn't underestimate the potential problems. Listen to your gut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 :grouphug: so sorry to hear this. We have a new ds that has some similarities. We have only had him since Nov. We are having some issues as well, but nothing as bad as yours. I just wanted to let you know that I commiserate with you and will be in prayer for Jayden and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: We were foster parents for several years. We also had to end an adoption of 2 beautiful sisters, ages 4 and 5, because their Reactive Attachment Disorder was more severe than we could handle and keep the other children in our home safe. Hospitalization was necessary for the 5 yr old. Even with medication I could not stop her from trying to kill her sister, molesting children near her, or destroying property within the home. A group that was very helpful to me during that time was a yahoo group called RAD-FAS Kids. It is a large experienced group that was able to walk me thru medications, how to get needed services, and more. If you are not already a part I can highly suggest it. There is another group called CFP. Christian Foster Parents. That group is a long time group of experienced friends that had adopted and cared for seriously emotionally damaged children. 99% of their posts are just silly personal things -thye use it as a way to relax and get away. However, when someone needs help and guidance,they are right there with all the help and experience you can use. You need to make sure you are taking good care of yourself as you deal with this child. I did send my girls to a therapeutic preschool just so I could get a break and school my son. Yes, the oldest came back very angry but it gave me the mental break I needed. The therapeutic preschool also gave me much needed counseling and support. Sometimes I just needed to cry and vent my frustrations and the preschool provided me with a wonderful counselor just for that. Have you considered other medications? The 4 yr old was on risperdol and ritalin. It took both to calm her down and help her focus. After the oldest left a treatment center she was on 3 meds - but I don't know what they were. When she was in treatment was when we decided no more and she went to another foster home. Are you familiar with Nancy Thomas? She is controversial but she was a long time foster parent of children like your son. Some of her books are helpful. If there are therapeutic foster homes near you, could they give you respite time as well? :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 :grouphug: I am so sorry you are in this situation. You need to make yourself, your unborn child and your other children a priority and do whatever needs to be done to protect them. I would have serious reservations about having a child with these behaviors in your home once your newborn is there and you are sleep deprived and otherwise have your hands full. I would talk to whomever necessary to make sure that happens and as soon as possible, what an awful situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyfizzle Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I am so, so sorry. You've done what you could. I felt bad about not adopting a little girl with RAD until someone here mentioned that some kids with RAD do BETTER in a group home or institution because they are not "threatened" with feeling loved by a parent. I released the guilt at that point. My point is, if you have to commit him, then you have to commit him. It will get him the help he needs. :grouphug: I'm so sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2myboys Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I am so sorry. :grouphug: I do not have any advice, but could not read without adding some prayers and positive thoughts for you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 :grouphug:. We just had to have my ds9 hospitalized b/c of his violence and rages. I won't even try to compare it to your 4yo fc b/c at least with our 9yo who is our bio son...we know our family history and know that there wasn't any drug/alcohol use during pregnancy, any abuse (phys. or sexual) as a child, or anything that could be causing his violence. I'm so new at this myself, and we are still in the middle of trying to figure out what is going on with my son. I will pray for you and your family, that the right diagnosis is made quickly and that he will be put on the right medication and receive the best possible therapy. You do need to take care of yourself and the rest of your family and if hospitalization is the only option...please do it. I hated doing it to my own son, but we had no other choice. None. And my hope is it will be the beginning of healing for us all. Has any professional suggested a mood disorder (bi-polar)? Sounds like it could be a variety of disorders coming into play. Praying you find answers very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieH Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm sorry :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeK Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I can feel for you around 16 years ago we had a child (8 yrs old) in our home that we where going to adopt and he had some issues but overall was a good kid. He got in trouble at school. We had him for several months and knew his family well. Then it got crazy. This was his second time in our home for foster care. He ended up going back with his mom. I think he was with use several months the first time. He started going in fits of rage whenever my husband and I would do things like hug, hold hands or just laugh with one another. He would get crazy and throw thing, kick and just go wild. He didn't have a father around and when mom had boyfriends they ended up abusing his mother and him. It was the hardest thing that we had to do. I felt he would hurt my husband and me. We called social worker telling them we couldn't do it that they had to come and get him. They wanted us to call the police but I couldn't and took him to the foster care office. We tried everything we could. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done. We tried to tell him this is what a mom and father relationship should look like, that we care for him and would never hurt him. You have to do what is best for your family. Talk to everyone in your home and see how they feel. If its trying to work with him more or changing medication. Even if its to have him go with another family. Maybe he would do better being the only child in a family. I don't know. You have to put the safety of your kids and yourself first. If he is this drastic at 4 how will he be in a few years when he is older and stronger? My prayers and thought are with you during this difficult time. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 It does sound like this little guy needs more help than you can give him at this point. With other kids in the house and a newborn on the way, your first priority is to keep everyone safe. Has he seen a psychiatrist? Have they tried anything other than Abilify? My now 15dd tried Abilify years ago but it did not work for her like Risperdal and 2 mood stabilizers have. They thought she would be in the same situation your son is by that age as well. Have they looked at any therapeutic foster parents where he could be the ONLY child or just MUCH MUCH younger than any other kids in the home? I hate to say this, but some of these kids just can not live in a family setting safely. This does NOT mean that you have to stop being his parents or loving him but rather you might have to do it from a distance while he is in a setting that can keep him safe and meet his needs. Today my husband and I had lunch with 2 other families that have adopted out of the foster care system. We all have had some tough kids and one mom has a son much like yours so I do understand. It is easy for those outside to think that if you just "love" them enough or give them some structure, etc. all will be fine. I think you need to be VERY firm with the workers that he needs an out of home placement NOW---be it an institution, a therapeutic home, another foster home that is VERY experienced without young children, or something. Then together you guys can work on medication, therapy, etc. and see where things go from there. For us, medication has made such a HUGE difference. At 5 my daughter was homicidal/suicidal and psychotic and now at 15 she has very minimal mood symptoms (bio mom was bipolar and schizophrenic, dad was a socio/psychopath so very scary stuff). It does though take a TOP NOTCH psychiatrist that is willing to work very closely with meds for him. It might take several trials and very often a combo of meds but like I have said before, a child on 3 psych meds that is able to function in school, home, and society is much better than a child on no meds that can't safely be home. Please keep us posted and know that we are supportive of these tough decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Wow- That sounds like a tough situation. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am praying for you and for him:grouphug: I can't imagine how hard this must be. Please keep us posted- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymom Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 thank you so much! I really needed to have someone understand and not make me feel any more guilty! People around us try to understand, but they keep saying to be more firm, loving, understanding... They keep saying surely it can't be that bad, maybe you just need a break. Yet when I need someone to babysit everyone says they aren't sure they can handle it. Really though I don't want to pass him off because I would feel horrible if he hurt someone, and the time of getting even that he dishes out negates any benefits of a brief break. I tend to do better to suffer through than to try and deal with the ups and downs. That is what has been the hardest in all of this. He can be so wonderful for days on end and then he goes psycho, and I am completely thrown. It takes days for me to start feeling 'loving' towards him, but I get so angry and frustrated at the hint of misbehavior. I know it isn't right, and I try not to let it happen that way, but I am at the point where I just want him moved before we suffer anymore. I have even begun to wonder if I may be a danger to him! I am not a violent person, but when he started swinging on me, and the next day I came home to find out he attacked my oldest daughter I wanted so bad to return the favor and see if he still thought violence was fun. That is an evil feeling to have, and I'm embarrassed to admit to having it! I have smacked his mouth a couple of times, and had to drag him to a safe location a few other times. The smacking was probably wrong, but at least it wasn't an out of control rage as much as it was a desprate attempt to end a rage using shock value. Imagine being at a friends wedding reception and your 4 year old taking center stage because he couldn't have cake yet. I was so embarrassed. I don't want to be an abusive parent, I don't want my other kid growing up with me being angry and yelling all the time, but I'm afraid that is how it will be if I can't find resolution. We are working on changing his diet. He has been off of sugar completely for a few weeks now, and it has helped him to stop picking and fidgeting so much. There are other things people have suggested I take away from him and I'm willing to try it. I just don't know if I'm up to having him in our home long enough to see complete results. He has had risperdal, ritalin, adderall, and who knows what others. He is seeing a psychologist and she said they have tried every drug that is safe to use at his age, and Abilify has had the best results. I hate the idea of keeping a child in a zombie like state, but it would be better than living like we are. I had to have him follow me to the bathroom and stand at the door today just so I could be reasonably certain that no one would be attacked. I just wanted to say thanks again, for understanding and your prayers. We have a big appointment on Wednesday with a behavior therapist and I am going to be very blunt about what I need to happen. I just want to make sure nothing jepordizes my other kids. I'm scared of what he will say, because he throws blame and will say --- kicked the cat, or --- punched Sami, all stuff he did, but says someone else did. He says it about all of us. The Dr. said it is common in kids like this, but I've been a foster parent, and I've heard enough horror stories about false allegations to be scared. He used to do it at his old home though so I'm hoping everything will be fine. He once told me his other mom threw him down the stairs because he couldn't go pee. Of course that suppossedly happened earlier that day, and I didn't see one bruise on him that weekend. When I told her what was said, she said it was Jayden translation for I punched mom in the back because she told me to go pee, and she fell down 5 stairs. She also had a black eye, and 2 bite marks on her chest that same weekend from him. I'm rambling again. I guess I will sign off and try to get some sleep. I just wanted to let you know how much it really helps to have people out there that care, and don't judge me to be some kind of monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would start calling today for a pediatric psychiatrist and tell them this is a CRISIS situation. If you have a good mental health hospital in your area, call their intake/crisis line and ask for help. Make sure they know about the bio family history of severe mental health issues and the rages he is having. This is obviously way beyond the care of the pediatrician (and good for him to agree that it is) and counselors/psychologists are not experts on the meds. There likely ARE other options for him. Have they tried a MOOD STABILIZER? These are meds like Depakote, Tegretol, Lamictal, and Lithium. The first 3 are seizure meds and are used even in infants so he is not too young for them. They might say he is too young for Lithium but again you have to do the risk/benefit thing. Also, the proper meds will NOT make him a zombie at all. They will allow him to be the nice little boy that you see between the rages. Maybe it would be best for him to be inpatient or in a therapeutic home for a while until the med stuff gets figured out. Then maybe he could come home safely or maybe you would parent him but not have him live with you. I know this is really tough. Until you have lived with a child that is raging and hurting others, trying to jump out of a moving van to "make myself dead", talking of killing people with a knife and buckets of blood (these all happened here with various kids all preschoolers), etc. it is very hard to understand. These are NOT normal tantrums but severe issues. If you want to email or send me a private message with your location, etc. I can see if I could find out some services in your area and/or a good doctor. Usually your local community mental health is not the best place for services for young kids but they do have to see you within 24 hours so if nothing else works, do that. The other option is to take him to the closest big children's hospital and admit him there and go from there. Again, this is tough but I have personally seen 2 of my friends have their families destroyed due to children like this with severe issues that didnt' get the help they needed when very young (and through no faul of the parents--they tried). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 My ds's rages went away with stimulants. I did take him for an in-patient evaluation at one point (after he threatened to kill us all), but he had stopped by the time we got there and they would not admit him. It was about a week and a half later that he was given Vyvanse and it is nothing short of a miracle. He still occasionally has breakthrough events, but he is a totally different child. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I was a social worker in my former life and IMO this little boy is a risk to the safety of your family. I would recommend ending his stay with you immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I used to think that any 4 year old could be handled, and could improve, with firm, loving, positive, consistent supervision/discipline. My dd attended a coop preschool, and I was really good at handling lots of kids that age. I learned how by reading about it and doing it. And then I got to know Ricky (not his real name). Yes, he had a non-firm parent. But that was not the whole story. This child was utterly violent, and no one in the community, NO ONE, could stop it or prevent it. You know how with most kids you can see their violence coming, on their faces? Not Ricky. You know how with most kids they are just flailing and don't really hurt people? Ricky would figure out how to hurt the people he attacked as much as he possibly could, using whatever materials were handy. He bashed a child so hard in the face with one of those noise sticks that half of the child's face was bruised for two weeks. And his own face betrayed no emotion before, during, or after this incident. An attendant at arms length had no inkling that he was going to do this. He tried to smother another child in one of those preschooler parachutes, waiting until no adults were within arms' reach and pulling it down over her head and trying to seal it around her neck so that she couldn't breathe. His first grade year he tried to choke two kids on the playground, in separate incidents, each time carefully out of sight of the rest and the teachers. He was the main reason that my DD did not attend that elementary school. After what I observed, I figured that sooner or later someone was going to be very badly hurt. I am the last person to draw this kind of conclusion about a child. I am a really good disciplinarian and teacher. I believe in the power of love. I know how to be loving AND firm. So with that in mind, I will tell you what I bet you need to hear most of all: I believe you. I believe that you are right to be afraid. I believe that you need to make a change. And I am very, very sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymom Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Just got off the phone with his Psych dr. She said if we had went through an agency we would have had more support, but because this was a private adoption through an attorney it makes the process a little harder. He has to go to another therapist, and that therapist has to try behavior modification techniques until she is convinced there is nothing left to do for him. Only after she has done all she can and is convinced he is a danger to this house will they consider institutionalized care. I of course asked if one of us had to be seriously injured before they claimed him as a danger. She didn't have an answer to that. She feels bad for us, but said it wasn't going to be a quick fix, and she wishes I had more support during the adoption process as it could have helped me be more prepared. I don't think I ever woud have been prepared. They don't want to mess with his meds until the behaviorist sees him tomorrow and gets her say..no biggie I understand that. They said they will start looking for respite care in case he is aggressive towards the newborn, or if my husband has to leave town again soon after the baby is born. They want me to have time to get my energy back before being the only adult to supervise his behavior. I appreciate that, but feel like that is such a minor bit of help. If I send him to respite it just gets worse afterwards so I hesitate to use it frequently. She said they would be very selective about who got him, and make sure he only went somewhere that understood how manipulative these kids could be. Ugghh I'll have more to report tomorrow I'm sure. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Can you call your local CMH or state adoption agency, etc. for help? I am so sorry to hear that you have such little help available. That is why we will not do a private adoption. Do you have any family or church support? Can someone come in the house and help you during his waking hours? I would keep a record of all behaviors and make sure to call them each time so that you have a record of all the times you have asked for help. Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the grease. Can you have someone go with you to the doctor so that once the doctor examines him they can take him out to the waiting room and you can speak VERY frankly with the doctor and tell them that SOMETHING needs to change and ask for any and all help. If that office has a social worker, ask to speak to them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Can you call your local CMH or state adoption agency, etc. for help? I am so sorry to hear that you have such little help available. That is why we will not do a private adoption. Do you have any family or church support? Can someone come in the house and help you during his waking hours? I would keep a record of all behaviors and make sure to call them each time so that you have a record of all the times you have asked for help. Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the grease. Can you have someone go with you to the doctor so that once the doctor examines him they can take him out to the waiting room and you can speak VERY frankly with the doctor and tell them that SOMETHING needs to change and ask for any and all help. If that office has a social worker, ask to speak to them as well. This is good advice. I would especially have someone go with you so you can speak to the physician. When we had our girls we had to speak to the drs privately. If they ever got an inkling that a particular behavior was upsetting to me they would use it to their advantage. Videotape him if possible for his actions will speak louder than your words. Another option may be a private foster care agency, like a church supported one. We were licensed thru one as foster parents. Our agency would take in children from private families like your son for respite, for care, and so on as well as accept children coming from state funded foster care agencies. They would usually have less red tape than a state agency and be more willing to help you than condemn you. I wish you were in my state - I would give you some recommendations. If the child needed long term care and the children's home could provide it, there could come a time where you would have to give them guardianship while still having contact if you so chose. Friends of ours did this with a dd they adopted. She is very happy at the home, they have regular contact by phone, mail, and visits. She does live several hours away so the initial move was very difficult. When she reaches adulthood, the agency will help her transition onto her own. In the meantime :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndie Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Honestly I am shocked that you have so little recourse and help. I am sorry you have to live one more day with the fear that this child will hurt you or your other kids. I think I would have to take him physically to the office and not leave until he was no longer my obligation. I don't think a little respite care is going to cut it, IMO. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Just got off the phone with his Psych dr. She said if we had went through an agency we would have had more support, but because this was a private adoption through an attorney it makes the process a little harder. He has to go to another therapist, and that therapist has to try behavior modification techniques until she is convinced there is nothing left to do for him. Only after she has done all she can and is convinced he is a danger to this house will they consider institutionalized care. I of course asked if one of us had to be seriously injured before they claimed him as a danger. She didn't have an answer to that. She feels bad for us, but said it wasn't going to be a quick fix, and she wishes I had more support during the adoption process as it could have helped me be more prepared. I don't think I ever woud have been prepared.They don't want to mess with his meds until the behaviorist sees him tomorrow and gets her say..no biggie I understand that. They said they will start looking for respite care in case he is aggressive towards the newborn, or if my husband has to leave town again soon after the baby is born. They want me to have time to get my energy back before being the only adult to supervise his behavior. I appreciate that, but feel like that is such a minor bit of help. If I send him to respite it just gets worse afterwards so I hesitate to use it frequently. She said they would be very selective about who got him, and make sure he only went somewhere that understood how manipulative these kids could be. Ugghh I'll have more to report tomorrow I'm sure. Jen :banghead::banghead::banghead: This is so frustrating to me as a former social worker and therapeutic foster parent. So few even professionals have a clue what these kids are like. And yes, he will probably have to hurt one of you before they will say that he needs institutionalization. Make sure you get a therapist who specialized in foster/older adoptive children or it will be a colossal waste of time. Keep scrupulous records. Record every scary thing that happens. I recommend an ABC chart: antecedent (what was going on just before the behavior) B behavior C consequences (what happened afterward--not just what discipline you imposed.) Can you disrupt the adoption? I know that sounds like a huge step, but it might be what needs to be done and what you said in the first place about not being able to keep him if the violence started. I am scared for you and for your family. I am enraged that an adoption can even be done knowing what we know without options out for kids who cannot be taken care of in a family setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I am so, so sorry. You've done what you could. I felt bad about not adopting a little girl with RAD until someone here mentioned that some kids with RAD do BETTER in a group home or institution because they are not "threatened" with feeling loved by a parent. I released the guilt at that point. My point is, if you have to commit him, then you have to commit him. It will get him the help he needs. :grouphug: I'm so sorry. :grouphug: That is certainly my opinion after having lived with one (as a foster parent) and worked with many other kids with RAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykdsmomy Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Do you know if his birth mother drank alcohol during her pregnancy? This could be a contributing factor which complicates getting proper treatment and help :( Most physicians don't know how to diagnose Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder so it goes untreated/undiagnosed. It sounds like they haven't found a good combo of meds yet either. (((hugs))) when ds6 was 4 we were facing the possibility of committing him and it was torture for us. We wound up not doing it and he's doing much better now BUT....we did have to move the younger foster child in our home and that was horrible. We were intending on adopting her :( I agree with others that your family's safety is top priority. This little guy needs more than you can give him right now and that is not your fault in any way. (((Hugs))) again and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofeight Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I am so sorry to hear how much you are suffering/struggling. I have lived through this nightmare with my ds for the last 18yrs. My son has been officially diagnosed as having schizo-effective form (schizophrenia with bi-polar disorder), among many other co-issues (too long to list). We also found that he has a very rare chromosomal disorder believed to be caused by a spontaneous mutation. Rages were an very often occurrence in our home and only grew in seriousness and violence as time went on. Like your situation, although very emotionally needy at school/daycare he rarely had the kind of rages he was having at home. I have heard it all...you just need to spank him more; you need to be consistent; you need to change his diet; you need to be more assertive; etc. It took forever for me to receive a clear diagnosis (the Dr.'s kept telling me it was ADHD.) I don't want to go on and on about my situation, but want you to understand I know how this feels - its hell! The last straw for us was when the violence turned from me to my little ones. Finally someone gave me the advice I needed. I was told the next time he threatens or attacks a member of the family have him admitted to the psychiatric ward at the hospital. At the time I wasn't even aware that this was an option for kids. I was also told to document everything! Those two things opened a lot of doors for us. It wasn't easy but it helped. He was admitted and they were able to get his medications working effectively - they had to deal with him all day, so that helped. Once released he was referred to our local Community Mental Health office (which may also be a good place to start - ours had a "First Call for Help" phone number which was very useful when we were in crisis.) Trust me it speaks volumes if you document the day to day issues, and every time you meet with a Dr. or counselor or therapist or specialist you plop that book down in front of them and they WILL pay attention - they tend to need it in "black and white!" Also, don't be afraid to demand answers and assistance - people who are not living with these issues very often don't understand the desperation a mother feels - not only to help the troubled child, but also to protect the rest of her family. In my case, it took years (not to be discouraging - my son also had a mental delay that wasn't diagnosed until he was 14, because we couldn't ever finish the testing due to his behaviors.) He has been placed in a group home for the last 3 years, but it took a lot of doing - part of the problem (or most) is the cost of placement. In the beginning I trusted everything they told me and then I got smart and started trusting my instincts and demanding to be heard and for action to be taken. At one point they threatened to put my other 6 kids in foster care so that I could deal with this one child???!!!!! I started to think I was living in the Twilight Zone rather than the USA - I couldn't believe it. That's when the gloves came off! I, like yourself, was not willing to wait for something bad to happen to one of my other children and I started asking them what they would do in this situation? Do not be afraid to move-on from doctors and others who are not helping you - I agree with the other post that suggests you find a pediatric psychiatrist. There is a big difference in these situations between a psychologist and a psychiatrist! (no offense intended to anyone) I have no idea about your adoption situation, but I hope that this post was of some benefit. If not, I apologize...and I hope you know that I fully sympathize and will pray for you and your family...continue to be strong mom - its a lonely struggle, I know, but if you ever need to chat or vent please feel free to email me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug: I have a friend who's story sounds exactly like what you're describing. It got very scary fast. Ultimately there was direct physical threat and harm to the other children in the family and my friend made the difficult decision to disrupt the adoption. It almost tore the existing family apart. She is doing well now and reports are that the child (now in college) is doing well too. Do what is right for yourself and your family. Put them first. Everything will work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I am so sorry to hear your pain. Years ago, when ds and I were very active in AWANA at our church, I had a severe ODD 8 year old girl in my group. It took 3 adults to hold her down or control her when she went into a rage -- and to avoid the other kids from seeing it. The Senior Pastor and I both felt we needed to have her in AWANA as a respite for the family. They needed a break. But oh my gosh, she was a handful and I felt so bad for the family. The parents ended up divorcing over the situation and we lost touch with the dad and girl. You need to do what is best for your family. Edited January 13, 2011 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hugs and prayers. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I have not read through all of the responses, but I wanted to chime in and say that there is hope for this child if the right path is taken. Biomedical intervention can do wonders for a child like this. Gluten should be removed ASAP. It is strongly associated with all of the disorders his bio parents and family members have. Please look into this possibility as it could really change his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymom Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Everyone thanks so much for the comments. Momofeight, it really helps hearing your story. I'm due to have my 8th and my biggest fear is that they will try taking my others because of him, or because I can't handle him, or even because of a mark I left on him while trying to hold him down during a rage! (The marks have never been bruises, but one time his arms were really red and I just knew someone had to have called the cops to come rescue the child screaming to death!) Misty we did an elimination diet with him when one of my other ones desperately needed it for medical reasons. Gluten doesn't seem to affect him, but sugars and dyes do seem to increase his fidgeting and picking. My husband is furious with me. We have talked quite a bit about what the therapist said, and how I deal with his first signs of losing control. Unfortunately I must have been the only one in the conversation. Again tonight Jay threw a fit over wanting more food. 1) he had had plenty, and 2) He wasn't chewing by the end, and wasn't completely swallowing before adding more. I think I already mentioned he has a stricture due to TEF, so he can choke easier than other children. I had warned him he was going to lose the rest of his food if he didn't pay better attention. He finished the last few bites okay, but not great. Since I felt he had had enough I said no to seconds. The next child to ask was also told no because we were starting to clean up by then anyway! Meltdown. Dad first yells at him to dry it up. When that doesn't work he told him he could get ready for bed because "I wont listen to it"., I said "dry it up", get quiet before you try to talk to me... 30 seconds pass and Jay brings it down noticably, but is still crying, obviously is not ready for bed and now my husband is trying to reason with him. Jay immediately rachets up a few decibles "but DADDY!" Dh.."I said dry it up!" Stupid me butts in and reminds dh that Jay needs to go lay down until he is under control and gets yelled at that he had got it under control. (really?) Finally after a few more minutes of this battle he tells me I need to deal with him before he gets any more frustrated and does something he shouldn't. Keep in mind, my husband considers smacking a childs mouth full fledged abuse, so I am in no way worried. I come in the room and told him to lay down now. He does with some serious death cries. I told him I was going to count to five so I could calm down with him, and if he screamed again he was going to get hot sauce. (We bought a hot sauce that was not hot at all, but taste horrible. It is the best 'mouth wash' I've ever used! Some of my kids don't really care, but the ones that do say they would prefer to be given a taste of soap or dirt! LOL!) He got louder. As soon as I bent he started kicking. Of course he went right for my very prominent belly. Since he had to spin to get there I'm sure it was an aimed attack. My husband is suddenly by my side and in the fray. It took both of us to hold him down, and yes I gave him the sauce. He is somewhat less enthusiastic about the battle and is now screaming ooow it burns... He is determined the bottle holds real fire. I very quietly (uh-oh) told him I expected him to be completely silent. I didn't want to hear one more word until I got back from changing clothes. If he spoke he would get more sauce, if he was queit I would be willing to listen to what he had to say AFTER I had changed and calmed down. I didn't even turn around before he started in with mommmy. I whiped around and grabbed his chin and in my low furious voice told him his next saucing would be way worse than the first and he had pushed me to far. I then turned him toward the wall and told him to stare at that wall and really think about how he wanted his night to end. I know my husband smacked his butt good when I first got kicked, and at one point when J did what we call his 'demon' scream and I thought I was about to be bit, dh smacked his mouth.. Uh-oh. Yes you shouldn't, and because of dh's childhood he really believes you shouldn't spank/smack anywhere but the backside. Now he feels awful and he thinks I am to quick to discipline, and that I want him to physically abuse J so he can have the control that I have with him. I DON"T! ! ! I don't think it has anything to do with the physical side of it, I simply know that if he would stop giving warnings, and accept that there is no reasoning with him when he is upset that our lives might be somewhat sane on the weekends! I think the main reason J does so well for me during the week is that he doen't have his daddy audience, and I will tell him one time to get it under control, or send him to bed until he is calm and ready to behave. If he tells me no or starts with that scream face I immediately spank/sauce or put him in a corner. I find I do much better to react quickly before I have time to get mad and before he gets any steam built up. Sorry, I'm really rambling, but I've lain here all night wondering if our 14 year marriage can survive this child. He has been really good for 5 days, enough so that I was beginning to hope with the right therapy and tactics that he may have a chance with us. We don't believe in divorce, but I'm beginning to wonder if he feels so strongly about a seperation. I want to look forward to when he is able to be home, but the last month or two I dread it. The difference in J is amazing. He's not an angel when it is just me, but there haven't been nearly as many rages when dh isn't here. Thanks for listening, even if you just skimmed :). We go back to the therapist in a little over a week, but she is bound and determined he doesn't need institutionalized. Even said violence isn't a core part of who he is. I don't care if it is a core part, violence that isn't core still hurts people! I halfway think I shoud just let him go the next time he attacks me, and after I have few really good bruises get a few pictures. I would prefer it be me than one of the kids who gets hurt, and maybe it would get more attention than just having violence be a 'concern." Night all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in OH Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Everyone thanks so much for the comments. Momofeight, it really helps hearing your story. I'm due to have my 8th and my biggest fear is that they will try taking my others because of him, or because I can't handle him, or even because of a mark I left on him while trying to hold him down during a rage! (The marks have never been bruises, but one time his arms were really red and I just knew someone had to have called the cops to come rescue the child screaming to death!)Misty we did an elimination diet with him when one of my other ones desperately needed it for medical reasons. Gluten doesn't seem to affect him, but sugars and dyes do seem to increase his fidgeting and picking. My husband is furious with me. We have talked quite a bit about what the therapist said, and how I deal with his first signs of losing control. Unfortunately I must have been the only one in the conversation. Again tonight Jay threw a fit over wanting more food. 1) he had had plenty, and 2) He wasn't chewing by the end, and wasn't completely swallowing before adding more. I think I already mentioned he has a stricture due to TEF, so he can choke easier than other children. I had warned him he was going to lose the rest of his food if he didn't pay better attention. He finished the last few bites okay, but not great. Since I felt he had had enough I said no to seconds. The next child to ask was also told no because we were starting to clean up by then anyway! Meltdown. Dad first yells at him to dry it up. When that doesn't work he told him he could get ready for bed because "I wont listen to it"., I said "dry it up", get quiet before you try to talk to me... 30 seconds pass and Jay brings it down noticably, but is still crying, obviously is not ready for bed and now my husband is trying to reason with him. Jay immediately rachets up a few decibles "but DADDY!" Dh.."I said dry it up!" Stupid me butts in and reminds dh that Jay needs to go lay down until he is under control and gets yelled at that he had got it under control. (really?) Finally after a few more minutes of this battle he tells me I need to deal with him before he gets any more frustrated and does something he shouldn't. Keep in mind, my husband considers smacking a childs mouth full fledged abuse, so I am in no way worried. I come in the room and told him to lay down now. He does with some serious death cries. I told him I was going to count to five so I could calm down with him, and if he screamed again he was going to get hot sauce. (We bought a hot sauce that was not hot at all, but taste horrible. It is the best 'mouth wash' I've ever used! Some of my kids don't really care, but the ones that do say they would prefer to be given a taste of soap or dirt! LOL!) He got louder. As soon as I bent he started kicking. Of course he went right for my very prominent belly. Since he had to spin to get there I'm sure it was an aimed attack. My husband is suddenly by my side and in the fray. It took both of us to hold him down, and yes I gave him the sauce. He is somewhat less enthusiastic about the battle and is now screaming ooow it burns... He is determined the bottle holds real fire. I very quietly (uh-oh) told him I expected him to be completely silent. I didn't want to hear one more word until I got back from changing clothes. If he spoke he would get more sauce, if he was queit I would be willing to listen to what he had to say AFTER I had changed and calmed down. I didn't even turn around before he started in with mommmy. I whiped around and grabbed his chin and in my low furious voice told him his next saucing would be way worse than the first and he had pushed me to far. I then turned him toward the wall and told him to stare at that wall and really think about how he wanted his night to end. I know my husband smacked his butt good when I first got kicked, and at one point when J did what we call his 'demon' scream and I thought I was about to be bit, dh smacked his mouth.. Uh-oh. Yes you shouldn't, and because of dh's childhood he really believes you shouldn't spank/smack anywhere but the backside. Now he feels awful and he thinks I am to quick to discipline, and that I want him to physically abuse J so he can have the control that I have with him. I DON"T! ! ! I don't think it has anything to do with the physical side of it, I simply know that if he would stop giving warnings, and accept that there is no reasoning with him when he is upset that our lives might be somewhat sane on the weekends! I think the main reason J does so well for me during the week is that he doen't have his daddy audience, and I will tell him one time to get it under control, or send him to bed until he is calm and ready to behave. If he tells me no or starts with that scream face I immediately spank/sauce or put him in a corner. I find I do much better to react quickly before I have time to get mad and before he gets any steam built up. Sorry, I'm really rambling, but I've lain here all night wondering if our 14 year marriage can survive this child. He has been really good for 5 days, enough so that I was beginning to hope with the right therapy and tactics that he may have a chance with us. We don't believe in divorce, but I'm beginning to wonder if he feels so strongly about a seperation. I want to look forward to when he is able to be home, but the last month or two I dread it. The difference in J is amazing. He's not an angel when it is just me, but there haven't been nearly as many rages when dh isn't here. Thanks for listening, even if you just skimmed :). We go back to the therapist in a little over a week, but she is bound and determined he doesn't need institutionalized. Even said violence isn't a core part of who he is. I don't care if it is a core part, violence that isn't core still hurts people! I halfway think I shoud just let him go the next time he attacks me, and after I have few really good bruises get a few pictures. I would prefer it be me than one of the kids who gets hurt, and maybe it would get more attention than just having violence be a 'concern." Night all I recommend printing out this post and taking it with you to the therapist. It will give an "in the moment" picture of the family dynamic in your home, so that she can be of more help. Sometimes it's hard to remember all of the details when you're sitting in an office for an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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