Ubelievable! (more evidence that "common" sense isn't so common)

[Laurie4b]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/boy-13-busted-illegal-marker-possession

 

I found this in another news source as well. Totally unbelievable! A kid was arrested for using a permanent marker in school.

[Parrothead]

That teacher had to have had it in for that kid.

[AngieW in Texas]

Even for something that doesn't make sense, this doesn't make sense. Since when is a public school private property? It didn't say anything about possession of a permanent marker on public property being a crime.

[Ellie]

Oh good grief.

[Corraleno]

That teacher had to have had it in for that kid.

:iagree:

I noticed the kid's description on the police report included black hair and brown eyes and the entry for race was blacked out along with his name. I wonder if she would have called the cops on a little blonde girl with a Sharpie ... :glare:

 

Jackie

[sagira]

Ridiculous. My 3-year-old could be arrested if she were attending public or private school. Some of the comments on that page make me cringe, though.

[Mrs Mungo]

Even for something that doesn't make sense, this doesn't make sense. Since when is a public school private property? It didn't say anything about possession of a permanent marker on public property being a crime.

 

:iagree:?

 

Granted, I am sure there is information missing on both sides, but how did it lead to his *arrest*?!

 

The marker ban--which apparently is aimed at curbing graffiti--stems from a city ordinance making it illegal to possess spray paint or a permanent marker on private property (without the owner’s permission).

[momofkhm]

This is just ridiculous.

[Laurie4b]

:iagree:

I noticed the kid's description on the police report included black hair and brown eyes and the entry for race was blacked out along with his name. I wonder if she would have called the cops on a little blonde girl with a Sharpie ... :glare:

 

Jackie

 

That thought crossed my mind as well.

[Laurie4b]

:iagree:?

 

Granted, I am sure there is information missing on both sides, but how did it lead to his *arrest*?!

 

 

It sounds like there is sheer stupidity in the law itself: making possession of a permanent marker a crime (wherever you are) is ludicrous. I have one in my purse a good bit of the time. I wouldn't even agree with spray paint being illegal, though there are certainly fewer random reasons to have spray paint with you. If law enforcement notices someone with spray paint on their person, they can watch until a crime is committed. If the graffiti has already occurred, then the color, evidence of use, etc. of the spray paint would be evidence. But just having a Sharpie on your person---shees! In this case, the law is much worse than the crime.

 

I don't even care if the kid had purposely been writing on his desk (though he wasn't) --permanent marker actually comes out--I still think the punishment is ridiculously disproportionate to the crime. Scrubbing it out would make the most sense as a consequence, along with detention if it had been purposeful, but arrest? I can't think of any other way to describe it other than as a police state.

 

I am betting that the law said "public" property. It would make more sense unless that was a private school, but it didn't sound like it.

 

Don't you live in OK, Mrs. Mungo? Surely you can talk some sense into them! :tongue_smilie:

Edited December 23, 2010 by Laurie4b

[TXMary2]

Markers? In a school? The horrors.

:rolleyes:

[KatieH]

Wow, how absurd! I'm fine with permanent markers not being allowed, but ARRESTING kids over it? Really?

[grace'smom]

If I was that teacher I'd be embarrassed to show my face around town as "the lady that got the kid arrested over a sharpie." Is this going to go on his permanent record? How is he going to explain that on his college applications? Job interviews?

[DarlaS]

Yeah. He was probably sitting there in math class, innocently listening attentively while drawing unicorns and rainbows with his marker, and the mean old teacher called the cops. Before this, he'd probably never given her a minute's trouble. :rolleyes:

 

There has to be much (much much) more to this story. We'll never hear the rest of it though, as the kid has a right to privacy (being a child) that the teacher does not have.

[ConnieB]

Reason #46,863,716,432 that I am glad I homeschool. Around here, the kids are just reminded to put extra paper or a blotter/placemat under their paper if they're using markers of any kind. Maybe I should threaten them with arrest for failure to obey, lol.

 

I think there is a lot more to this story than is being told. Ok, I HOPE there is a lot more.....

[MSNative]

Yeah. He was probably sitting there in math class, innocently listening attentively while drawing unicorns and rainbows with his marker, and the mean old teacher called the cops. Before this, he'd probably never given her a minute's trouble. :rolleyes:

 

There has to be much (much much) more to this story. We'll never hear the rest of it though, as the kid has a right to privacy (being a child) that the teacher does not have.

 

:iagree: Public schools have rules regarding everything. I can't believe this woman just up and decided to call the cops over a marker. There is much more to this story.

 

 

FYI - loved the comment "will this go on his PERMANENT record?"

[Laurie4b]

Yeah. He was probably sitting there in math class, innocently listening attentively while drawing unicorns and rainbows with his marker, and the mean old teacher called the cops. Before this, he'd probably never given her a minute's trouble. :rolleyes:

 

There has to be much (much much) more to this story. We'll never hear the rest of it though, as the kid has a right to privacy (being a child) that the teacher does not have.

 

The *arrest* record states that the arrest was for having a permanent marker. It's there on the page. Imo, it's irrelevant if this was the biggest baddest kid in the school; deal with those problems appropriately. Don't call the cops to arrest a kid for a marker. Better yet, don't have a law that allows arrest for the possession of a permanent marker.

[Murphy101]

Yeah. He was probably sitting there in math class, innocently listening attentively while drawing unicorns and rainbows with his marker, and the mean old teacher called the cops. Before this, he'd probably never given her a minute's trouble. :rolleyes:

 

There has to be much (much much) more to this story. We'll never hear the rest of it though, as the kid has a right to privacy (being a child) that the teacher does not have.

 

Know what? I don't care if he was writing epithets and drawing naked ladies, both of which while not nice are fairly normal teen boy stuff. He was doing it on paper, and it bled through. Big freaking whoop. Hand him a magic eraser and have him clean it up. Send him to the principal. For that matter, same thing if he had done it directly on the desk. Maybe charge a fine. Whatever. Would make more sense than this mess.

 

And I also don't care if every day he is a big stinking PITA. Then she should have dealt with those bigger issues as they came up. His history doesn't mean he should get in trouble for every stupid thing he does. That's just looking for an excuse to heap more trouble on him.

 

The teacher was a jerk, the law is stupid, and the cop was ridiculous to go along with it. If the kid was being violent or threatening her, that would be different.

 

Maybe the kid was just a jerk too. Kids aren't the professional in the room tho.

 

Glad to be homeschooling.

[pdalley]

Know what? I don't care if he was writing epithets and drawing naked ladies, both of which while not nice are fairly normal teen boy stuff. He was doing it on paper, and it bled through. Big freaking whoop. Hand him a magic eraser and have him clean it up. Send him to the principal. For that matter, same thing if he had done it directly on the desk. Maybe charge a fine. Whatever. Would make more sense than this mess.

 

And I also don't care if every day he is a big stinking PITA. Then she should have dealt with those bigger issues as they came up. His history doesn't mean he should get in trouble for every stupid thing he does. That's just looking for an excuse to heap more trouble on him.

 

The teacher was a jerk, the law is stupid, and the cop was ridiculous to go along with it. If the kid was being violent or threatening her, that would be different.

 

Maybe the kid was just a jerk too. Kids aren't the professional in the room tho.

 

Glad to be homeschooling.

 

:iagree:

 

Again - 'no tolerance' seems to equal 'no common sense'.

 

If the kid was such a PITB then surely they could have found more to charge him with than this. This is ridiculous.

 

Until you've been on the receiving end of public school admin run a muck it's easy to believe that there 'must be more to the story'. Sometimes there isn't.

[Trish]

The teacher has no Sharpies in her drawer? Is "concealed carry" okay for markers?

[Trish]

If I was that teacher I'd be embarrassed to show my face around town as "the lady that got the kid arrested over a sharpie." Is this going to go on his permanent record? How is he going to explain that on his college applications? Job interviews?

 

Since a Sharpie was involved, that's about as permanent as it gets.

[Stacy in NJ]

what else is going on here.

 

Sometimes teachers lack the authority to enforce rules in our modern k-12 schools. In the old'n days teachers would just take the marker away and enforce some type of punishment like scrubbing the desk top after school. I wonder if this type of punishment was allowable at this school. Teachers feel more and more powerless and then go to stupid and extreme places to try to enforce some type of discipline.

 

When teachers and schools are fearful of law suits they turn to law enforcement to do what they should be able to do. Sad but true.

[grace'smom]

Since a Sharpie was involved, that's about as permanent as it gets.

 

 

:lol::lol: I was not even thinking of that when I wrote it... :lol:

[abreakfromlife]

I don't understand why the cop would allow her to sign the citation against him. Why couldn't the cop say 'this isn't an arresting matter?' why would he let her make a citizens arrest against a 13 yo??? How insane.

[Faithseed]

Markers? In a school? The horrors.

:rolleyes:

 

:lol::lol:

 

The whole thong is just crazy silly.

[kitten18]

what else is going on here.

 

Sometimes teachers lack the authority to enforce rules in our modern k-12 schools. In the old'n days teachers would just take the marker away and enforce some type of punishment like scrubbing the desk top after school. I wonder if this type of punishment was allowable at this school. Teachers feel more and more powerless and then go to stupid and extreme places to try to enforce some type of discipline.

 

When teachers and schools are fearful of law suits they turn to law enforcement to do what they should be able to do. Sad but true.

I agree. When I taught middle school, I had no authority to enforce any kind of punishment (I couldn't keep a kid after school, assign a detention, or even make the kid scrub a desk) and unless someone was being assaulted, the administration didn't want to be bothered.

[Murphy101]

what else is going on here.

 

Sometimes teachers lack the authority to enforce rules in our modern k-12 schools. In the old'n days teachers would just take the marker away and enforce some type of punishment like scrubbing the desk top after school. I wonder if this type of punishment was allowable at this school. Teachers feel more and more powerless and then go to stupid and extreme places to try to enforce some type of discipline.

 

When teachers and schools are fearful of law suits they turn to law enforcement to do what they should be able to do. Sad but true.

 

I agree and still think this was out of line. If she can't inflict a proper punishment for scribbling with a sharpie, then let it go and move on. Bigger fish to fry beyond a doubt. Even that would make more sense than going to as you right call it stupid extremes.

[JoJosMom]

FWIW, I charged possession of a marker a gazillion times. In CA, violation of the statute requires intent to use as graffiti tool. Generally, when we'd get these from schools, we'd get copies of the little darling's workpages covered with graffiti. Tends to show that s/he wasn't carrying it just for art class.

 

I suspect that the law is the same in the case mentioned on the blog. But leaving that part out is certain to draw more hits.

 

ETA: Just to clarify, we only got these cases sent over on gangsters and taggers. I spent about 4-5 years at juvenile and never saw a case where a kid was arrested when the doodling involved was on the order of "Johnny loves Sally."

Edited December 23, 2010 by JoJosMom
clarification, I hope.

[Murphy101]

FWIW, I charged possession of a marker a gazillion times. In CA, violation of the statute requires intent to use as graffiti tool. Generally, when we'd get these from schools, we'd get copies of the little darling's workpages covered with graffiti. Tends to show that s/he wasn't carrying it just for art class.

 

I suspect that the law is the same in the case mentioned on the blog. But leaving that part out is certain to draw more hits.

 

Oh good grief. Stupidity crossing state lines in schools is not much comfort. (the rules, not you personally)

 

Heaven forbid a kid scribble on their school work pages. Obviously they are destined to steal booze and drunkenly spray paint the neighborhood that night.

 

And even if they do, it's none of the school's business as they aren't in the job of law enforcement. If the kids isn't caught doing graffiti or evidence they did it found after the fact, then there's no reason for police involvement.

 

If this were illegal drugs or weapons, that would be one thing.

 

It's a marker. No way around it. Police involvement was stupid.

[Truscifi]

Did anyone read the comments? The hate in so many of them was extremely disturbing, as were the crazy, baseless assumptions.

[Murphy101]

Did anyone read the comments? The hate in so many of them was extremely disturbing, as were the crazy, baseless assumptions.

 

Yes, I read the first page of them. Not very nice or polite at all.

[Murphy101]

Tho much as I hate to say it, once it was brought to my attention, she DOES look remarkably like Jabba the Hut.:mellow: if it hadn't been for the rest of the comment, I would have found that mildly amusing.:tongue_smilie:

[Murphy101]

And much as I'd like to blame Obama for this incident, I just can't stretch it that far.:tongue_smilie:

[Stacy in NJ]

I agree. When I taught middle school, I had no authority to enforce any kind of punishment (I couldn't keep a kid after school, assign a detention, or even make the kid scrub a desk) and unless someone was being assaulted, the administration didn't want to be bothered.

 

Wow. So sad and a terrible testimony to our modern schooling system. Common sense goes out the window, unfortunately.

[Princess Peach]

It is certainly not that way across the board. My DH has the authority to, and most certainly has kept a kid after school and/or had him clean up a mess. Several times.

 

I guarantee there is more to this story. I also guarantee we will never know what it is.

[Murphy101]

I thought this was funny:

 

I know this family... we in the community saw this coming. The whole family is a bunch of pen-users. I once saw the boy's father out in their yard with a Bic pen tucked behind his ear! In broad daylight! It's about time someone did something.

 

Someone else there said it must have been a "fat marker" which is supposedly illegal in the possession of a minor. Geez. Seriously? That's just stupid too. Makes me want to give every one of my kids a fat marker on a regular basis.:glare:

[Murphy101]

It is certainly not that way across the board. My DH has the authority to, and most certainly has kept a kid after school and/or had him clean up a mess. Several times.

 

I guarantee there is more to this story. I also guarantee we will never know what it is.

 

I agree. But bottom line is unless the kid was somehow violent, there's really nothing to add that would make me think this was justified.

[Princess Peach]

I agree. But bottom line is unless the kid was somehow violent, there's really nothing to add that would make me think this was justified.

 

Absolutely, I agree.

 

However, I suppose my view is colored by the fact that there was an incident at DH's school last year and it was heavily covered in the news and what was reported was only half the story (or less).

[Murphy101]

That's it. I need to change my sig line to:

"We are proud pen-users and have no idea what constitutes reasonable pay for hookers. Therefore we must be bad parents and Christians.";)

 

My kids are flat out refusing to clean as instructed. I am not willing nor legally permitted to beat them, lock them up, or tie them up even if they just threw a Lego truck at their fellow classmate! And just last week, one of the little potential felons took marker to my stair way hall! Granted she is two, but she sure as heck booked her guilty feet fast when she saw me coming up the stairs. And right this minute the two oldest are screaming at each other. Over a book. One wants to read it since the other is not. Other has hid it bc he isn't done reading it and doesn't want brother to read it and then ruin the book by telling him what happens. This has been an on-going unresolved argument over books for YEARS.

 

That's IT! I'm calling the cops. The principal here won't intervene for hours

yet and even then he will look at me like I'm nuts or the kids are nuts or he might even be really foolish and actually LAUGH about my day with this wild critters. I need enforcement here. Yep. I ought to call the cops.

 

But wait. I'm a parent. I can't call the cops for that. Heck, I doubt they'd even be able to drive over for their laughter at the notion.

 

But a teacher? Well of course it just makes since then.:glare:

 

We need to stop giving teacher and govt more rights over our lives and our children than we would EVER condone in a parent. It is flat out wrong that far too often if the exact same thing happened in someone's home DHS would be called, but when it happens in a school it is excused with zero criminal action.

[Caroline]

I agree. But bottom line is unless the kid was somehow violent, there's really nothing to add that would make me think this was justified.

 

What might be missing--Kid is known to be in a gang. What he was writing with the sharpie were gang signs. Mom and dad have been told by school admin and police several times, but refuse to believe it. Maybe an arrest record will shake parents up enough to do something, anything, to maybe prevent the child from being killed.

[Murphy101]

What might be missing--Kid is known to be in a gang. What he was writing with the sharpie were gang signs. Mom and dad have been told by school admin and police several times, but refuse to believe it. Maybe an arrest record will shake parents up enough to do something, anything, to maybe prevent the child from being killed.

 

:confused: So what if he is in a gang or doodling gang signs? Sure I think it's wrong, but he was in CLASS, not on the street dealing drugs and sawed offs. And suggesting that spending time with some hardened kids in juvie will save him is just ridiculous. Might as well send him to gang training ground so he can properly network when he reheats the street.:001_huh:

 

I doubt what she did was of any benefit to that boy or his family.

 

Other than getting him out of her class, which I'd bet is not a very pleasant place for any kid.

[Mrs Mungo]

My dh has been "the man" long enough to know there is likely more to the story. I agree that is likely. It is possible it involved gang signs. It is possible the teacher had it in for the boy.

 

But, I have to agree with those who said arrest on *public* property for having a marker is insane.

 

And I am *from* Oklahoma, but I haven't lived there for well over 15 years. I am only allowed to vote in certain elections. I currently live in Hawaii, which has problems that are totally different from Oklahoma. ;)

[mcconnellboys]

Ummm, the ordinance says it's illegal to possess it on "private" property. Since when is a public school grounds private property?