HS Momma on the Verge. . . I'm just plain tired.

[StephanieZ]

I'm just plain tired of always having so many things on our To Do lists, and never getting them all done. I don't recall all the kids being caught up in everything in forever. This can't be healthy.

 

We're always behind in something. There's always something slipping through the cracks.

 

I want to just pitch it all. Not just for a day or a week. For a few months! Or forever!

 

We take 8-12 weeks totally off each year for travel, holidays, etc. . . but it's just not enough. It's been 5 weeks since we got home from our month-long fall holiday, and we just had a week off for Thx. . . and two more coming up for Christmas. . . but it's NOT ENOUGH. Somewhat b/c during those weeks 'off' at least my olders end up with 'homework' to do during the vacation, so I am still harrassing them even though I am supposed to be on vacation!

 

This has gotten worse every year, as the kids get older & we have more commitments, etc.

 

During the school week, we regularly have out-of-home commitments like travelling for music lessons (an entire day every 2 weeks), group coop type things (typically 3 or 4 days a month, just in the late afternoon. . . but I get tied up prepping during the school day). . . travel things, family stuff, doctors, well you know the drill. . . So, those missed days or partial days push stuff off to the weekend and then we can never get ahead.

 

I hate to constantly say NO to fun stuff b/c we are behind in school. That seems unfair and unhealthy on many levels.

 

For several years I had the luxury of a 2 or 3 day a week helper/tutor/governess who would handle homeschooling for me on those days while I went to work. She moved far away in June and is irreplaceable, and so it's all on me now, with help from dh on his days at home. (I still work one day a week, with the kids schooling on their own with checklists. . . and in the care of my housekeeper who keeps them safe/fed but does not school.)

 

I have always had a tendency to expand-the-work-to-the-limit-of-my-capacity. I do this in all areas of life & I am well aware of it. I know it's not a good idea. I try to hold myself in check, but am probably not very successful. I.e., whenever life gets manageable, I get another pet, have another baby, start a new project, pick up a new subject, sign up a kid for another activity, etc. . . . I just can't seem to allow life to be easy & comfortable. Typical insane type A, I guess. This tendency has its benefits & its drawbacks.

 

It doesn't help that I have a cold and so am just extra grumpy.

 

What do I do???? Have any of you faced this & come back from the edge? Found balance & peace?

 

FWIW, we've always hs'ed. Always loosely following TWTM. All 3 kids are very much ahead-of-grade level in pretty much everything. They could watch TV for 2 years solid & still test ahead of grade level, lol, so that's not a worry. . . I just want them to keep using their brains, love learning, not grow to hate hs'ing or learning. . . and grow into their God-given gifts.

 

We have strict controls on TV & internet, and that wouldn't change no matter what kind of schooling we do b/c the reasons for it are bigger than education. If we dropped a lot of the requirements, I'd still require healthy activities the rest of the day.

 

So, I guess I am looking for out-of-the-box advice at this point. Brainstorming. . .

 

Ideas I have:

 

++ Radically drop subjects for the remainder of the school year, replacing dropped subjects with free-form learn-at-your-own-pace time. . . Ie., kids would be 'schooling' for a set time each day (say 7-8 hours for the olders, 4 for the younger). . . and could follow their own interest, keeping a log. . . for the time not required for CORE subjects.

 

I've tried paring back here & there & it seems to have little impact. The kids still have a lot to do (except my youngest, her workload is quite manageable) & so I think the extra one hour just disappears. . . It is something of a game, I think. Not healthy.

 

OR

 

++ Not drop subjects, per se, but radically change the way I schedule things. Change to a TIME based schedule each day/week instead of an assignment based schedule. I had thought the kids would respond best (not waste time) if they had a check list of assignments for the week. Some times this has worked well. . . but lately, they seem to not get things done no matter what. . . so we are always behind. If they had a time based chart per day or week (x min per subject A, y min per subject B, etc.) that was VERY DOABLE (as in doable in 50-60% of their reasonably expected weekly school time) and then the rest of the time each school day (say 8-3 each day) could be spent however they wished so long as it was healthy (play, crafts, reading, etc). .

 

OR

 

++ Suck it up & get on with it.

 

OR

 

++ Please advise alternatives & any other advice you have for me!!

 

Thank you, wise friends.

[KathyBC]

Tentatively poking my .02 out there, because I'm not operating on the same playing field.

 

* If you are loosely following TWTM, then you're probably cycling through 4 years of history; thus SL Core 7 can be done over two years: Early Modern Times one year, followed by The Modern Age the next. Would that help?

 

* Do your older children need to keep working on spelling?

 

I can see what you're saying about expand-the-work-to-the-limit-of-your-capacity. I hope someone who has BTDT can share how they found balance and peace.

[Peela]

7-8 hours a day for an 11 and 13yo? And that's taking it easier?

 

It sounds to me like you are a bit of a perfectionist and are battling with your own demons about letting go and learning to just enjoy life, and letting your kids just be kids.

What I have always tried to remember is...what sort of childhood do I want my kids to look back on? Mum always nagging, pushing hard, making sure we are way ahead on everything.....or one that was balanced, generally happy, where school got done but so many other wonderful experiences were had also.

To me its about balance and it sounds like you are out of balance and are having a hard time giving yourself permission to give your kids and yourself some cruising time.

I do understand that feeling of being driven, of not wanting to fail your kids. But.....they never get their childhoods back.

We are not human doings we are human beings. Life is for living, not just excelling academically.

 

Anyway...my suggestion is to finish school by a certan time each day and be done with it. Pick up where you left off the next day.

Cut out the extra extra committments.

Come back to home, to family, to time together, to rest, to play, and re-establishing what you are doing and where you are going- what the most important things are. They are not school.

[StephanieF]

:iagree:

 

I gasped when I read 7-8 hours a day! I don't think a child can work effectively for that amount of time day in, day out.

Stephanie

[ktgrok]

Agreed, you are just doing too much. You can't do it all!!!

 

Rotate subjects? Make some subjects unschooly? For instance, we do WTM for most things, but we unschool science. I let him pick out books, watch NOVA specials on tv, etc. Just a thought.

[NanceXToo]

Your oldest kids are 11 and 13 and you're saying that if you "radically" cut subjects your kids will STILL end up with 7-8 hours worth of work a day- and after that they'd have free time?

 

My jaw is on the floor.

 

No wonder you're burnt out, stressed out, and always "behind" (not that I think you can really call it behind by any means because I think you're already WAY too far ahead of yourself!!!!)

 

I think you ALL need to relax and start enjoying life some. Cut your hours back, pare your subjects down, give them more time to follow their interests and be kids...right now it sounds like you're expecting too much, giving them too much busywork or doubling up on too many subjects or adding in too many unnecessary ones or something- I'd cut down to giving your 11 y/o maybe 4-5 hours per day of school and your 13 year old maybe 5-6 (preferably the lower end of that spectrum for a while). (And maybe 3 or so per day for your 8 y/o).

 

Make a list of THE most important things. Then look at it again and ask IS THIS REALLY IMPORTANT?! Then make a list of the secondary things in order of importance to you (and hopefully taking your kids' interests into consideration too) and then make a very set school time going by how many hours you're going with, and they stop when that time is up. Anything they didn't get to on that secondary list- forget about that stuff for now. (And if you have to stop school for an activity or errand keep track of your hours). See how that goes for a while.

[LindaOz]

 

 

++ Not drop subjects, per se, but radically change the way I schedule things. Change to a TIME based schedule each day/week instead of an assignment based schedule. I had thought the kids would respond best (not waste time) if they had a check list of assignments for the week. Some times this has worked well. . . but lately, they seem to not get things done no matter what. . . so we are always behind. If they had a time based chart per day or week (x min per subject A, y min per subject B, etc.) that was VERY DOABLE (as in doable in 50-60% of their reasonably expected weekly school time) and then the rest of the time each school day (say 8-3 each day) could be spent however they wished so long as it was healthy (play, crafts, reading, etc). .

 

 

Thank you, wise friends.

 

I don't think I quite qualify as a 'wise' friend but I have been doing something like what you suggested above. Instead of the long list of things to do, I told the kids we would work for 3 hours in the morning - roughly an hour math, an hour writing/LA, and an hour on other topics like history, social studies, science, music theory (not all on the same day). They also have an hour of reading in the afternoon. My 6 and 8 yo don't work for the full 3 hours, but they have a set amount to do and some assigned reading time as well.

 

Well, what freedom that brought; freedom to have a worktime that actually had an end!!! And, surprisingly, a lot of work gets done in that 3 hours. I think it helps that they know they have a finishing line, and that they are free to spend time learning in that time frame without being concerned about ticking off finished items from the to-do list. It's also helped my dd, who previously could take all day to do her work, to have a difined focus period instead of a whole day. In the afternoons, they can work on other projects and interests like music, cooking (my girls love to cook), sewing (one is going to work through a sewing project book), more reading, or just playing.

 

Maybe give it a try. :001_smile:

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

7-8 hours a day for an 11 and 13yo? And that's taking it easier?

 

It sounds to me like you are a bit of a perfectionist and are battling with your own demons about letting go and learning to just enjoy life, and letting your kids just be kids.

What I have always tried to remember is...what sort of childhood do I want my kids to look back on? Mum always nagging, pushing hard, making sure we are way ahead on everything.....or one that was balanced, generally happy, where school got done but so many other wonderful experiences were had also.

To me its about balance and it sounds like you are out of balance and are having a hard time giving yourself permission to give your kids and yourself some cruising time.

I do understand that feeling of being driven, of not wanting to fail your kids. But.....they never get their childhoods back.

We are not human doings we are human beings. Life is for living, not just excelling academically.

 

Anyway...my suggestion is to finish school by a certan time each day and be done with it. Pick up where you left off the next day.

Cut out the extra extra committments.

Come back to home, to family, to time together, to rest, to play, and re-establishing what you are doing and where you are going- what the most important things are. They are not school.

[Gratia271]

7-8 hours a day for an 11 and 13yo? And that's taking it easier?

 

It sounds to me like you are a bit of a perfectionist and are battling with your own demons about letting go and learning to just enjoy life, and letting your kids just be kids.

What I have always tried to remember is...what sort of childhood do I want my kids to look back on? Mum always nagging, pushing hard, making sure we are way ahead on everything.....or one that was balanced, generally happy, where school got done but so many other wonderful experiences were had also.

To me its about balance and it sounds like you are out of balance and are having a hard time giving yourself permission to give your kids and yourself some cruising time.

I do understand that feeling of being driven, of not wanting to fail your kids. But.....they never get their childhoods back.

We are not human doings we are human beings. Life is for living, not just excelling academically.

 

Anyway...my suggestion is to finish school by a certan time each day and be done with it. Pick up where you left off the next day.

Cut out the extra extra committments.

Come back to home, to family, to time together, to rest, to play, and re-establishing what you are doing and where you are going- what the most important things are. They are not school.

 

:iagree:

On a side note, I was recently conversing with a school educator who stated that typical instructional time for the day is about 2.5 hours.

[MamaT]

You have gotten some great advice, but just wanted to agree that 7-8 hours is too long at those ages. My 11yo works 5 hours a day, my 13yo about 6 and I consider what we do pretty rigorous.

 

We also have time committments every afternoon.We had to start getting up earlier in the morning. The kids are up by 6:00 and ready to start school at 7:00. Maybe you could start earlier?

[Hedgehog]

I identified with a lot of your post - although I wish I was as motivated as you!

 

From what I can see from your post, you are a diligent, conscientious mama who wants the best for her kids - good for you. Your kids will certainly be glad that you taught them to work hard.

 

But.. you need to teach them when to rest, too. I don't believe our bodies were made to just go, go, go.

 

I'm just plain tired of always having so many things on our To Do lists, and never getting them all done. I don't recall all the kids being caught up in everything in forever. This can't be healthy.

 

Somewhere along the line, you have the expectation of doing too much for the time you have. To state the obvious, we all have the same number of hours in a day; there is only so much you can fit in. If you simply can't fit it all in, then you will have to prioritize, and cut out what's at the bottom of the pile for the time being.

 

We take 8-12 weeks totally off each year for travel, holidays, etc. . . but it's just not enough. It's been 5 weeks since we got home from our month-long fall holiday, and we just had a week off for Thx. . . and two more coming up for Christmas. . . but it's NOT ENOUGH. Somewhat b/c during those weeks 'off' at least my olders end up with 'homework' to do during the vacation, so I am still harrassing them even though I am supposed to be on vacation!

 

That adds up to 40-44 weeks of schooltime a year. Many homeschoolers, myself included, only calculate on having 36 weeks. You say yourself that you need more holidays - I agree. Schedule them in.

 

This has gotten worse every year, as the kids get older & we have more commitments, etc.

 

During the school week, we regularly have out-of-home commitments like travelling for music lessons (an entire day every 2 weeks), group coop type things (typically 3 or 4 days a month, just in the late afternoon. . . but I get tied up prepping during the school day). . . travel things, family stuff, doctors, well you know the drill. . . So, those missed days or partial days push stuff off to the weekend and then we can never get ahead.

 

Do they really need an increasing number of commitments? There's much to be said for having activities, but not if they are squandering your peace of mind. I would do - and sometimes spend - a great deal to obtain peace. I'm not sure what activities your dc do, but IMO one activity each - maybe two at a push - is plenty. Combined activities, like a co-op, still gives them an activity, but it's 2 - or 3 - for the price of 1!

 

I hate to constantly say NO to fun stuff b/c we are behind in school. That seems unfair and unhealthy on many levels.

 

But - you know, as an adult, that they can't do it all; as a parent, you make the call when it's all too much. If you can balance doing a decent amount of schoolwork with a few extras, then I'm sure they will get used to it and I would imagine they would be glad to know that they are not constantly behindhand.

 

For several years I had the luxury of a 2 or 3 day a week helper/tutor/governess who would handle homeschooling for me on those days while I went to work. She moved far away in June and is irreplaceable, and so it's all on me now, with help from dh on his days at home. (I still work one day a week, with the kids schooling on their own with checklists. . . and in the care of my housekeeper who keeps them safe/fed but does not school.)

 

You have been very blessed to have this help, and I'm sure you found a good groove and it worked well at the time. Now things have changed, and you need to cut your coat according to your cloth.

 

I have always had a tendency to expand-the-work-to-the-limit-of-my-capacity. I do this in all areas of life & I am well aware of it. I know it's not a good idea. I try to hold myself in check, but am probably not very successful. I.e., whenever life gets manageable, I get another pet, have another baby, start a new project, pick up a new subject, sign up a kid for another activity, etc. . . . I just can't seem to allow life to be easy & comfortable. Typical insane type A, I guess. This tendency has its benefits & its drawbacks.

 

I understand - I'm not very good at limiting myself at the moment either, saying no, but I am hoping that I'll get better at it over time.

 

It doesn't help that I have a cold and so am just extra grumpy.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry. Things never look easy when you're poorly. I hope you feel better soon.

 

All 3 kids are very much ahead-of-grade level in pretty much everything. They could watch TV for 2 years solid & still test ahead of grade level, lol, so that's not a worry. . . I just want them to keep using their brains, love learning, not grow to hate hs'ing or learning. . . and grow into their God-given gifts.

 

Then you've all done very well. I wish I could say that my dc were at least on par with their grade level, but we were unschoolers until last year and they are very behind. Hopefully we'll be able to do something about this over time, in most subjects, anyway. It's tempting to try and drive my dc to do this quickly, but I know that wouldn't really work - they would get very tired and discouraged.

 

Radically drop subjects for the remainder of the school year, replacing dropped subjects with free-form learn-at-your-own-pace time. . . Ie., kids would be 'schooling' for a set time each day (say 7-8 hours for the olders, 4 for the younger). . . and could follow their own interest, keeping a log. . . for the time not required for CORE subjects.

 

This is a LOT of time for a 13yo and an 11yo. Even the 4hrs for the younger one is quite long. Even if my dc were doing grade level work, I don't think I would expect my 11yo to be doing more than 5-6hrs tops (although I'm sure more experience HSers can give you some idea of how long their 10-12yos take to do their schoolwork).

 

I also noticed that at least in Math, you're doing two programs. My understanding is that Singapore is a very good program - do you need the other one as well? It may be that you are try to do too much per subject, and your dc would learn as well with one program per subject.

 

Over the last year, I have pared down our activities and commitments to the bone. Last winter, I was in a very similar place to you - tired, stressed, over-committed. It didn't work, and in the end, no-one was particularly happy. We were trying to do schoolwork, and our outside activities were:

 

 

1. Church and Sunday School on Sundays
   
2. Youth Group at Church for all
   
3. one gymnastics class a week for DD11 and DD9
   
4. two ballet lessons a week for DD11 and DD9
   
5. one ballet lesson a week for DS5
   
6. Tumbletots (toddler gym class) for DD2
   
7. Parent and Toddler Group mainly for DD2
   
8. Ice Hockey coaching for DS5
   
9. a skating lesson once a week for all
   

 

In fact just writing all that out, I am astonished that we managed even half of it - it's crazy!! That has now been reduced to: Church and Sunday School on Sundays with a few associated commitments; Ice Hockey coaching for DD11, DD9 and DS5 on Wednesday evenings, and skating on Saturday morning with DH (I have an arthritis type problem in my ankles so I don't skate - Saturday morning is my tidying time). Apart from that we are free to get our schoolwork done, run errands, and the occasional appointment. And I still feel that we are pretty busy.

 

Well I hope that helps some, and that you can figure out a way of working your week that feels productive, but not stressed.

 

Blessings,

Hedgehog x

[Hedgehog]

On a side note, I was recently conversing with a school educator who stated that typical instructional time for the day is about 2.5 hours.

 

Yes - that's very true. A friend of mine, who used to be an elementary teacher and now does courses for teachers, says that the actual numbers of hours of teaching/learning time is rarely more than 3 in a school, when you consider breaktimes, lunchtimes, time spent lining up, class control, changing for PE etc...

 

Schoolkids do then have homework, but I doubt that's more than 3hrs a day. We certainly never did more than that.

[Tabrett]

Here is my two cents. If you dc are ahead and don't struggle, I would drop spelling, writing and grammar curriculums. I would have my dc notebook daily on their science and history reading. Have them outline the text and write a weekly essay on their readings. Have the dc correct the grammar with you on the essays and rewrite and type. Make them keep a vocabulary/ spelling notebook. Require them to write down a new word a day from their reading and define. Put any misspelled words from the essays into the vocab/spelling notebook. Have them diagram several sentences from their essays.

 

Only do one science program. Only do one math program.

 

You could alternate history and science every other day. Many middle schools do an A day/B day schedule.

 

You are using really good curriculums, but I think by not combining subjects you end up duplicating skills. Then school work becomes busy work.

 

4 hours a day of solid work is plenty for middle schoolers. If they were in high school, 6 would be appropriate.

[Melissa B]

I wanted to send a quick reply to this. It is doable to school that much and still have happy, healthy children. I tend to shy away from these threads because I always get the jaw dropping, my children must be unhappy or unbalanced, how could I be so cruel responses. :D

 

But my kids school 45-50 hours per week and still have a balanced life and are rarely stressed. They participate in activities outside the home, they have friends, an hour and a half break each day for lunch and often have all day Saturday and Sunday off as well.

 

So here are my thoughts on why it works for us - in case it is helpful to you:

 

We have a schedule that we try hard to live by (but are not slaves to.)

Our children have a say in and are committed to our schedule.

We start our days early - around 6 AM.

We consider each activity and how it will effect the family before we commit to it.

We determine our days off based on when we need them. We don't take two weeks off because it is a Christmas holiday. We determine what days we want off based on our plans. We will take a long weekend the week before Christmas because we have family coming to celebrate early. We will work up to the 23rd because we don't have any plans until the 24th. On Thanksgiving we worked up through Tuesday because we had no plans but took the rest of the week off to celebrate with family.

We rarely do school work while on break. We just pick up where we left off. We do not try and get through the books but rather make steady progress at all times.

 

I don't know if any of that was helpful, but I did want to encourage you and let you know it IS possible to have longer school days and still have a fairly stress-free home. :)

[Pretty in Pink]

Agreed, 7-8 hours per day (and that is after you cut back). Wow! That is a bit much.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I will be the dissenting voice. ;) I don't think you are doing too much or for too long. All the public school kids we know school from 8-4 and have 1-2 hours of homework a night, plus several on the weekend. I think maybe you just need to change your perspective. My oldest is in 7th, so I will tell you how I handle his schedule.

 

He has his "basics": subjects he can do w/o me: math, reading, workbooks (Greek, vocab, enrichment math, . . . ). He does these everyday, unless we take the whole day off.

 

Then he has the subjects that he does by time: Science and World View. These are subjects he could easily get bogged down in. He does 30 min a day, each. We shoot for everyday, but in reality get to it about 3 times a week.

 

And the subjects he does with me: grammar, logic, literature, spelling and writing. I pick which ones he is going to do each day, depending on my time and his.

 

It all eventually gets done. We school year round and take breaks whenever we need them, go on vacation, or something fun comes up. Somedays I say, "You have x hours, do whatever school work you want. Bring it to me to check when you are done." My son also gets very sick, for long periods, and I just have him do what he likes when he is ill, requiring at lest the basics as he starts getting better.

 

Basically we have a plan, but even though that plan will not happen each day, we keep moving forward and it all eventually gets accomplished.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Quad Shot Academy

[Elizabeth in WA]

I will be the dissenting voice. ;) I don't think you are doing too much or for too long. All the public school kids we know school from 8-4 and have 1-2 hours of homework a night, plus several on the weekend. I think maybe you just need to change your perspective.

 

:iagree: Students in the last school district I lived in had hours of homework and rigorous classes from middle school through high school. The private prep school I attended starting in 7th also required a lot of work even though we weren't graded on homework except for essays. A great deal of studying was necessary just to keep up and if you failed or had consistently low grades, you would be invited not to return the following year.

 

If more free time for them to pursue their own interests is your goal, then freeing up a great deal of time makes sense. But if your goals are different, as mine are, then it's a matter of perspective. My 8th and 9th graders frequently have "homework" over the weekend or planned breaks because I insist that every week get finished as planned. Whatever isn't done by the end of the day Friday will be done over the weekend. I plan for 6 hours per day, not including reading and essay writing which are generally our of school assignments (or were when/where I went to school) for that age group. In practice it takes seven hours of focused effort to complete my lesson plans each day because of group activities I added to address retention issues with additional writing, reading, and studying. They do ~1 hour of evening homework many days and a half day most weekends. Studying is the major time stretch, as my older two boys appear to have minds like swiss cheese these days, and, for our family, it is not acceptable to retain only those subjects you are interested in. We insist on a solid body of general knowledge, retained and demonstrable, so that they can recognize references to that knowledge in literature and parallels to history and literature in current events.

[Chris in VA]

Give me an idea of how your day runs. When you say 7-8 hours of school work for your 13 and 11 yos, how does that work, exactly? Are they sitting the entire time? Are you counting lunch or breaks? Are they waiting for you to finish with teaching the others and maybe doing a chore or just hanging out during that time frame?

[StephanieF]

I had assumed that when you said 7-8 hrs you meant that time was productive work. I know that at my ds's school they do not have 7-8 hrs of productive work. They have breaks, pe, lunch, getting too and from lessons, assemblies etc. Even with homework they would not be doing 8 hrs of productive work.

Stephanie

[Quad Shot Academy]

I have no idea what schools are doing these days, but I know when I was in jr. high and high school, we had a 50 minute lunch and 5 or 10 minutes between classes. I don't remember any child ever being a distraction, not ever lining up, nor any wasted time. We worked form bell to bell and had lots of homework. I have no idea what schools are like now, but I have no interest in giving my kids lesser of an education than I had. I am actually very appalled at just how bad my education was!

[KathyBC]

I have no idea what schools are doing these days, but I know when I was in jr. high and high school, we had a 50 minute lunch and 5 or 10 minutes between classes. I don't remember any child ever being a distraction, not ever lining up, nor any wasted time. We worked form bell to bell and had lots of homework. I have no idea what schools are like now, but I have no interest in giving my kids lesser of an education than I had. I am actually very appalled at just how bad my education was!

 

Which adds up to about 5-6 hours per day plus homework.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Which adds up to about 5-6 hours per day plus homework.

 

I would agree with 6 plus homework, which is 7-8 a day, plus more time on the weekends, which is what the OP is doing. :001_smile:

[Elizabeth in WA]

Which adds up to about 5-6 hours per day plus homework.

 

But the homework part is not trivial. She specified lots of homework. Several hours of homework in jr. high and high school was common when I was in school, and is still common here in the better (based on test scores and college admissions) school districts.

[KathyBC]

I would agree with 6 plus homework, which is 7-8 a day, plus more time on the weekends, which is what the OP is doing. :001_smile:

 

So you're saying 2 hours of homework per day plus homework on the weekends. For junior high? Huh. That's... driven.

[Quad Shot Academy]

So you're saying 2 hours of homework per day plus homework on the weekends. For junior high? Huh. That's... driven.

 

I am just saying that is what I did when I was in school and that is what my son's friends who go to public school and private school are doing now. I don't think the OP expectations are quite as shocking as some pp think. It is just my opinion though! :001_smile:

[StephanieF]

It comes down to what you believe a good education is. I have a very driven self motivated ds14 at school who is top of the year and expected to go to a good UK university when the time comes. I worry about burn out. His teachers worry about burn out and have decided that in his year which is the last year before he starts on the exam treadmill, homework will be reduced from that given in previous years so that the children are able to take part in other activities provided by the school and outside.

 

He needs the time to take part in those activities or else he will not leave school a rounded individual. He may get all the exams he needs to be a doctor but he won't get a place at medical school unless he can show that he has taken part in outside activities and has contributed to society.

So how do we get those all important exam results and still have time to do all the outside stuff?

I am big on teaching him how to use what I call "dead time". Those few mins we all have waiting around. So for eg he gets up early and revises latin vocab whilst waiting for breakfast. He has flashcards for Greek which he looks at whilst waiting for his favourite tv program to start etc etc.

 

I don't want him to feel that he is working all the time because he is only 14 and still very much a child and needs to learn other skills than just academic ones.

Also why do kids get homework in school? Several of those reasons are redundant in the homeschool environment because of the one to one teaching and the sheer intensive nature of it all.

I still think 7-8 hours a day excluding sport, music drama, breaks,lunch class get togethers is a lot for a home educated child and I don't think that starting at 6am to get it done is the answer but I'm sure several of you will shoot me down in flames!

Stephanie

[StephanieZ]

Thanks so much for the input so far. Lots to think about!!

 

How does a typical day look now?

 

The olders (11&13):

 

8:00 start school

 

3:00 official end time. . .

 

So, 7 hours scheduled total, including lunch & breaks. Lunch & breaks should add up to about an hour in my mind (30 min lunch + 2-3 10-15 min breaks)

 

During those 7 hours. . . Right now, this is about what we're doing. . .

 

ds11

 

DAILY ACADEMICS (including music)

+ 90 min guitar (yes, this is the absolute minimum. . . He plays at the conservatory/college level & studies with an internationally renowned genuis, to whom we drive 200 miles each way twice a month. . . Allowing enough time in his life to do MORE than this is one of my goals here. . . ds is something of a prodigy & could pursue this professionally if it remains a priority for him.)

+ 10 min music theory

+ 60 min Algebra (he does need a full hour this year; Algebra is time consuming!)

+ 20-30 min daily Spanish

+ 60 min SonLight history & reading (about 60% read aloud, remaining silent reading)

+ 20-30 min daily Science

+ 5-10 min Spelling

 

NON DAILY ACADEMICS

+ 60-90 min twice a week MCT -- together w/ me & dd13

+ 60 min once a week writing assignment (MCT or other)

+ 90-120 min once a week Story of Science --reading aloud by Dad

+ full day to Cleveland once every other week for guitar lesson

+ 90 min twice a month with Spanish tutor

 

Recurring Non-Academics

+ weekly ski club (all day) 8 weeks Jan - March (which pushes school to the weekend)

+ weekly scouts (late evening) plus once a month 36-48 hour events/camping

+ 2 hour Story of Science meeting/exp'ts/etc with friends twice a month

+ 1-2 x/month paying guitar gigs (typically one hour in duration, consumes 2-3 hours with travel & set up time)

 

When I put it out like that, it looks so DOABLE, which is my sticking point. . . I have already abandoned formal logic & Latin long ago. . .

 

dd13's schedule is very similar, with an extra few hours of writing/literature study each week. She is an older 13, turing 14 next week. . . and is technically 8th grade, but working at 9th grade level or above.

 

dd8 really has just 2-3 hours of academics daily, easily completed in 4 hours including breaks, etc. Her schedule is totally in control. (She typically schools sporadically from 9 -2, but some days she is focused and gets it all done 9-11)

 

So, today I initiated a time-based plan for this week to see how it goes. . .

 

I am having the olders track their actual minutes by subject area. . . with the idea that they are 'done' when their minutes are complete. . .

 

The general idea of the 'new plan' is that dd13 has 7 hours of work expected each day (with about 90 min being flex time for either 'extra' time for a particular subject or to follow own academic interests) and ds11 having 6 hours of work expected each day (with about 60 min of flex time). . .

 

The sticking point of such a time-based schedule is that it will depend on the kids actually writing down what they do & being honest, etc. My plans always depend on them keeping records & no matter how brief the requirements are, getting it written down seems tricky. I believe that they always mean well, but they tend to 'forget' to write things down. . . and forget to put things in the notebook, or put their books where they are supposed to be. . . and then there accountability gets really hard. They end up spending a lot of time looking for stuff & when I want to check things, we spend a lot of time tracking down the exercises/quizes, or whatever. Things just get to be a mess.

 

I needed something different for TODAY for THIS WEEK, so I threw this out there to try it. . .

 

RE: Spelling, well, yes, they *could* drop it. But, their spelling isn't yet as good as mine is, and so I'd like them to just finish out SWO. It is such a small part of their time that I think it is reasonable. It's probably about 30 min/wk.

 

RE: Two sciences -- yes, we do SoS as well as GP Science, but the SoS is as much history as science. . . All combined it is not a lot of time, as GP is not time consuming. . .

 

RE: Math. The olders each do just one math. (Yes, the younger is finishing out Miquon as well as doing SM, but time is not an issue for her.)

 

RE: Multiple English -- yes, I do have this for dd13 only at this point. (I dropped IEW for ds11 recently). I am working on essay writing & more advanced lit study for dd13 as SL7 is really easy for her. . . For her, writing is my main goal this year. I have struggled with the idea of dropping one. I think what I should do is do just IEW Elegant Essay for the next month (during which time we'll finish it) and then add Utopia back in (which we could finish within the year no problem). That way we'd just have ONE each week, not both as we were trying to do. That would help, no?

 

I appreciate those of you who assure me I am not destroying my kids' childhoods by expecting too much, and I also appreciate the perspective that I could do a lot less. . . I am so torn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These kids are such a challenge.

 

THANK YOU for your support & ideas!

 

I am definitely still looking for advice. Please keep it coming!

[fairfarmhand]

you;ve gotten alot of great advice but one valuable skill to teach kids IMHO is the value of being able to say no. Evaluate what is most important and say no to the rest. They need to learn that there are seasons to life. We can do so much but we CANNOT do it all at the same time. IF we want to do x them we must drop y.

 

Is a cooked family meal 5 times a week very important to you? Then you cut the commitments that get in the way of that. Prioritize. Teach your kids that it is ok to be a bit bored every now and them.

[Laura Corin]

Do you have to get everything done in a year? Someone else mentioned doing SL7 over two years. There's no reason why you need to get the two Galore Park books you use done in a year. The books are advanced - take it at a pace where you have forward movement, but are not running yourself ragged.

 

FWIW, I did Latin Prep with Calvin and Hobbes, taking 18 months - 2 years per book. They absorbed the books well. Hobbes was also doing French at half speed, whilst Calvin did roughly a book a year - that was what fitted with our goals, but slower would have been fine too.

 

Both boys have slipped into private school with no problems - in the subjects where they used GP books, even when they were taking a long time to do them, they are still well ahead.

 

ETA, I would also suggest not doing every subject every day. Doing a little of your languages each day is fine, but why not break up the science onto a couple of days a week: you would gain by having less transition time. Could you split up the music theory too, so you did something like Monday and Wednesday science; Tuesday and Thursday music theory? You might find that more relaxing.

 

Edited again: if the writing portion of SL7 is too easy for your daughter, why not drop it, just doing the SL history/reading?

 

Laura

Edited December 6, 2010 by Laura Corin

[Hedgehog]

ds11

 

DAILY ACADEMICS (including music)

+ 90 min guitar (yes, this is the absolute minimum. . . He plays at the conservatory/college level & studies with an internationally renowned genuis, to whom we drive 200 miles each way twice a month. . . Allowing enough time in his life to do MORE than this is one of my goals here. . . ds is something of a prodigy & could pursue this professionally if it remains a priority for him.)

+ 10 min music theory

+ 60 min Algebra (he does need a full hour this year; Algebra is time consuming!)

+ 20-30 min daily Spanish

+ 60 min SonLight history & reading (about 60% read aloud, remaining silent reading)

+ 20-30 min daily Science

+ 5-10 min Spelling

 

Just a thought here.. does he need to do Science and Spanish every day? Could you perhaps do this 2 or 3 days a week instead?

 

NON DAILY ACADEMICS

+ 60-90 min twice a week MCT -- together w/ me & dd13

+ 60 min once a week writing assignment (MCT or other)

+ 90-120 min once a week Story of Science --reading aloud by Dad

+ full day to Cleveland once every other week for guitar lesson

+ 90 min twice a month with Spanish tutor

 

The fact that he's doing a different Science with their dad means he's getting plenty of instruction there... and as you're focussed on him learning guitar it may be that other things need to be done a little less.

 

Recurring Non-Academics

+ weekly ski club (all day) 8 weeks Jan - March (which pushes school to the weekend)

+ weekly scouts (late evening) plus once a month 36-48 hour events/camping

+ 2 hour Story of Science meeting/exp'ts/etc with friends twice a month

+ 1-2 x/month paying guitar gigs (typically one hour in duration, consumes 2-3 hours with travel & set up time)

 

See, this is where I'd cut back some. There's four things here, which are all great, but skiing, for example, is something he could do when he's older. I'm guessing he's already quite competent. JMO.

 

When I put it out like that, it looks so DOABLE, which is my sticking point. . . I have already abandoned formal logic & Latin long ago. . .

 

Doable, but you're stressed and tired? I think it's one thing to write it out and see that you theoretically have the hours to do it all, but then the actual doing of it is just too much. IMO, a schedule needs to have some breathing room, just to give everyone - well - time to breathe! Please don't get me wrong; I'm not meaning to be negative about what you are doing, because I actually really admire your drive and achievement, but I think there is a place for down time as well.

 

RE: Spelling, well, yes, they *could* drop it. But, their spelling isn't yet as good as mine is, and so I'd like them to just finish out SWO. It is such a small part of their time that I think it is reasonable. It's probably about 30 min/wk.

 

I would agree, continue spelling until it's 95% there. I like SWO anyway, my dc like doing it and say that it's not irksome.

 

RE: Two sciences -- yes, we do SoS as well as GP Science, but the SoS is as much history as science. . . All combined it is not a lot of time, as GP is not time consuming. . .

 

I'm not familiar with some of your programs, and I don't see anything I recognise as a History program as such, but if you already have a separate one it might be worth thinking about which one is best, or doing them less often.

 

RE: Math. The olders each do just one math. (Yes, the younger is finishing out Miquon as well as doing SM, but time is not an issue for her.)

 

Sorry, my mistake. When you type replies, you can't see the signatures easily.

 

RE: Multiple English -- yes, I do have this for dd13 only at this point. (I dropped IEW for ds11 recently). I am working on essay writing & more advanced lit study for dd13 as SL7 is really easy for her. . . For her, writing is my main goal this year. I have struggled with the idea of dropping one. I think what I should do is do just IEW Elegant Essay for the next month (during which time we'll finish it) and then add Utopia back in (which we could finish within the year no problem). That way we'd just have ONE each week, not both as we were trying to do. That would help, no?

 

Yes, it would.

 

I appreciate those of you who assure me I am not destroying my kids' childhoods by expecting too much, and I also appreciate the perspective that I could do a lot less. . . I am so torn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These kids are such a challenge.

 

I am always finding it a challenge.. to challenge them.. IYKWIM!! :001_smile: It is hard finding a balance, deciding what programs to use, how often, etc.

 

I think, ultimately, you know what you can cope with, and what your dc can do. There's nothing wrong with them having opportunities to achieve in different areas, as long as you are not finding yourselves overburdened. I think it's great that you are encouraging your ds to excel at his guitar playing - we were a musical family and we all played two instruments each, but we didn't really do any other extra-curricula activities. We didn't even have a TV, so our evenings were purely homework, two instrument practices for an hour apiece, supper, and Bible time, and then we all dropped into bed, exhausted!

 

Tentatively - one final piece of advice, from my grandfather (long since dead): "It's better to have a lot of knowledge about a little, than a little knowledge about a lot." His perspective was that he had learned many languages, taught himself many subjects, but wasn't that good at any of them; he wished, rather, to have excelled at just one or two things. I'm thinking with regard to your guitar playing son, that if he really is good, then it might be worth going all out to help him achieve his potential; but this will necessarily mean that you can't have him achieve so much in his schoolwork. I believe SWB says something like this in TWTM somewhere.

 

Blessings,

Hedgehog x

[Aubrey]

ds11

 

DAILY ACADEMICS (including music)

+ 90 min guitar (yes, this is the absolute minimum. . . He plays at the conservatory/college level & studies with an internationally renowned genuis, to whom we drive 200 miles each way twice a month. . . Allowing enough time in his life to do MORE than this is one of my goals here. . . ds is something of a prodigy & could pursue this professionally if it remains a priority for him.)

+ 10 min music theory

+ 60 min Algebra (he does need a full hour this year; Algebra is time consuming!)

+ 20-30 min daily Spanish

+ 60 min SonLight history & reading (about 60% read aloud, remaining silent reading)

+ 20-30 min daily Science

+ 5-10 min Spelling

 

NON DAILY ACADEMICS

+ 60-90 min twice a week MCT -- together w/ me & dd13

+ 60 min once a week writing assignment (MCT or other)

+ 90-120 min once a week Story of Science --reading aloud by Dad

+ full day to Cleveland once every other week for guitar lesson

+ 90 min twice a month with Spanish tutor

 

Recurring Non-Academics

+ weekly ski club (all day) 8 weeks Jan - March (which pushes school to the weekend)

+ weekly scouts (late evening) plus once a month 36-48 hour events/camping

+ 2 hour Story of Science meeting/exp'ts/etc with friends twice a month

+ 1-2 x/month paying guitar gigs (typically one hour in duration, consumes 2-3 hours with travel & set up time)

 

First, I think you're not giving yourself enough credit for your extra-curriculars. Even if something is only once a week, the time & energy to prepare for, travel to & from, & actually attend that event are always more than they seem like they should be. I'd bet if you cut back a little of that stuff, you'd find you had more energy for the rest at home.

 

BUT whatever you choose, I think you need to look at your schedule *differently.* Forget the daily/weekly way of looking at time that we used in school. Think blocks & units, chunking. You've got Cleveland for a full day every 2 wks, so what about 2-wk units? In that time, scouts would happen twice, Algebra would happen 9x, etc.

 

For me, a once-every-two-weeks event would be catastrophe for my planning unless I did something like this, because I'd never effectively make time for it otherwise. I'd *forget* to take a day off of my math, grammar, etc plans, & so we'd *always* be catching up on Saturdays.

 

If perfectionism & overplanning are a problem for you (they are for me), *underplan.* In your 10 day unit, plan 7 days' worth of lessons. If you run out of things to do, perhaps you could have a "gravy" pile of things you don't mind skipping.

 

Some things need to be re-prioritized. When I couldn't find time to do all of my read-alouds, etc, & I asked dh to do them for, say, bedtime reading, I took those things off. my. list. So SoS is your dh's thing. Don't worry about it. I bet your dh isn't even home during the day, so technically, SoS is no longer school--it's fun. It's bedtime reading. It's weekend-project-with-dad. And if it doesn't get done? Well, this weekend we missed Home Depot's free project day for the month, & we were bummed, but my school schedule is still fine, because although that's a learning experience, it's not part of MY responsibility, etc.

 

Also...I think the older our kids get, the more they begin to develop their unique focuses. Your kids are obviously developing theirs w/ all the time they're putting into music. Make space for that! It's a *good* thing. If it means going a little slower or doing a little less w/ another subject--just decide what's going to serve *your* kids best. Maybe they don't need as much history, or maybe history can be more of a family-evening thing. Play Axis & Allies, talk about WWII, read a book, & call it good. Maybe.

 

The ski club: can you count that as your summer break & just not mess w/ school during those three months? Because that sounds seriously stressful to be out on the slopes in the cold, working hard every. single. day. & then try to do a full week's worth of school on the weekends.

 

In short: from looking at your schedule, no wonder you are stressed. There is only so much a body can do. Your kids will be able to do a little more, perhaps, because they're changing from one subject/activity to another, but keeping it all ready to go & fit into your schedule means that YOUR brain never gets any down time.

 

And to that end, if you're going to give homework (which I think is fine), you might want to let dh take over for a few weeks (at least) being the guy who makes sure it happens. To be a good teacher, your brain needs to not think about school *sometimes.* Now, this may mean giving less homework & it will almost certainly mean that that homework doesn't get done the way you'd like sometimes. But it's all good. Even kids in rigorous schools have to suffer "parents" helping w/ homework. ;)

 

(Also--no homework on vacation. Period.)

[elfgivas]

car schooling. that's it.

 

so, i'd have their dear dad tape the 90 minute science and listen to it in the car.... or.... because its precious time with him, maybe he could read at breakfast each morning, or dinner or ???

 

we do spelling in the car or while the other one is dancing or doing music lessons.

 

writing can be done anywhere you have a computer, so we often do that during the other one's music or dance, too.

 

i wouldn't cut a second language down any; they need all those days BUT maybe somedays that can be listening to a lesson in the car, or singing in that language or or or....

 

another thing we do is double spelling lessons sometimes, so that on the days we aren't in the car, there is no spelling to do.

 

if the sonlight is them reading to you, then they can do that while you make dinner or do dishes or in the car. if it is you reading to them, you can do that while they do dishes or fold laundry or at mealtime. what we have done is to switch to "historyatourhouse.com". our dds are participating each day BUT it would work for you to do a tier 1 and just download the lessons and listen to them in the car. either way, unless they are going to be history majors, history is where i would "find" some wiggle room. i'm thinking it does not need to be a daily thing in any event. historyatourhouse.com is three days of history lessons + one history thru art lesson each week. you could listen to almost all of it on your way to cleveland and back.

 

re ski lessons pushing school to the weekend. i would make a different choice. i would have them do math and second language each day and let the rest go for that day. maybe they can do doubles of some lessons in the car or if you are driving them to and from skiing, there is a chance to do it then. OR you can just decide that during ski season, you are on a four day schedule. (i am thinking you mean they do one full day each week for that time).

 

fwiw, we do two hours of music practice here, + each dd dances a min. of 10 hours a week + 1-2 music performances each month + multiple dance performances/competitions. they also do music lessons and choir rehearsals. (we do choir music practice in the car every day)

 

hth,

ann

[NanceXToo]

I'm thinking if you really do want to cut down some, try something like:

 

Limit SonLight history and reading to 30 minutes per day instead of 60.

 

Limit Spanish to 2X a week instead of 5. To me, a foreign language is just not that important in a situation where something has to give. So if it were me personally I'd consider dropping the tutor and limiting the Spanish to just a couple of days a week, or even dropping Spanish entirely and focusing on it over the summer or something instead when you're not doing other curriculum stuff. Or doing it in less formal ways like with audio CDs on car rides and whatnot.

 

Limit Science to 3X a week instead of 5 (on the days you aren't doing Spanish).

 

See if you can pare MCT down to 30-60 minutes instead of 60-90 minutes.

 

Stop Story of Science for now (you're already doing another science program and you're already doing another history program) and if the kids really enjoy Story of Science, then do it over the summer for fun or something (that's what my daughter and I do with SOTW- we do it over the summer for fun, but we don't do it over the school year when I'm focusing on my main curriculum, which is Oak Meadow).

 

Or, let him read Story of Science on those car rides to Cleveland instead.

 

I think what I should do is do just IEW Elegant Essay for the next month (during which time we'll finish it) and then add Utopia back in (which we could finish within the year no problem). That way we'd just have ONE each week, not both as we were trying to do. That would help, no?

 

Sure it would help.