Money and Missionaries and Questions

[BeckyFL]

My experience growing up on the mission field.

 

I went to a school like yours. My parents paid for it out of their mission "salary". Ie. they were allotted money for all living expenses and they put some of the money to the school. The money allotted them took into consideration that they didn't have any choice over where to send us, though. (At that time.) The mission valued a good education and wanted the mission children to be able to go to the colleges of their choice.

 

We had a nice house by native standards in the sense that it was a little bit bigger and was better made too. It stood up in all the earthquakes. Many of our neighbors had to rebuild their houses. So the mission "saved" by having good construction the first time. Our house was bigger because we held church in our house as well as other meetings.

 

We had a new car but not a fancy one. My dad oversaw 5 churches in diverse areas. Good transportation was very important for his work.

 

I went to college with some kids who grew up in Africa with a mission that did not believe in giving their missionaries those "perks". It has been shameful to see these missionaries come back to live in poverty, hoping to get government help in order to get medical care etc. On the other hand, their kids were able to go to college.

 

I don't know all the "shoulds" in this. I do know that my parents and other missionaries were called to share the gospel with people. They did teach the native people to teach their own people. My dad started a seminary to do just that. I know that my family lived comfortably but not extravagantly. They did not go there to get rich and did not get rich off of it.

 

Honestly, I believe that if people are willing to move far away from everything they've know and make the sacrifice to raise their children apart from family, friends, etc. they should not have to do so without resources to educate their children, live comfortably, etc. I'm glad if missionaries are blessed.

We've never had a new car or a 2500 sq ft home, but I don't feel slighted because someone else does.

I find it a relief to know that families like Jean's can live decently and serve God at the same time.

We aren't talking about 6 figure salaries here, I'm pretty sure.

[Sputterduck]

I didn't take her as saying not to send anyone over, but rather pointing out the fact that many people are willing to help elsewhere, but unwilling to do anything for the homeless and impoverished in their own back yard...and I mean actually getting out there on the streets directly (btw, I'm not talking out my rear here...my husband and older children have done this in one of the worst areas of the country). People are willing to give money to their mission baskets, but unwilling to spend a few bucks to buy a homeless person a meal. This isn't directed at anyone particular and you may just be one of the people that actually do this...but as a whole more people are willing to support missionaries "over there" from the comfort of their homes, but not actually lift a hand here.

 

I think we should be willing to do both.'

 

 

Sputterduck, there are a lot of programs here, but they don't reach everyone and there are limitations. There are people here that do not even have a board shack to pull together (and the cities won't allow them to) and have no chance at ever finding a job. Yes, population wise in comparison, wherever you are is most likely much worse, I agree. But it's not all roses here either for some people.

 

I have an acquaintance that is a missionary. He lives no better than those around him other than some sanitation. He teaches health, sanitation, and I believe he is an RN as well. He's had malaria multiple times. It's not easy. He's back in the bush so far that there is no luxury.

 

No, it's not roses in America. But everyone can go to school at least until high school. You have welfare. You have food stamps. You have disability and unemployment. If I were in America, I would be working with the population who is hurting right now, but has access to those things. Here, I work with people who have none of that. They don't even have birth certificates, so they couldn't get help from the government if there was help available.

 

Cudos to your missionary friend. I thought I may end up living like that. But, I am lucky enough that there is a failed neighborhood that was marketed to Americans 20 years ago near the groups that I work with. The place is a ghost town, as most of the houses are empty, and most of the houses are falling apart. But my house is pretty good, and big, and is extremely cheap. I am infinitely thankful for it, and the ability to let other missionaries stay here when they need it.

[mommaduck]

You have welfare. You have food stamps. You have disability and unemployment.

We have a certain segment of the population that can't get any of these things. Those are the people I'm referring to. Most people want them to disappear and pretend they don't exist.

[Sputterduck]

We have a certain segment of the population that can't get any of these things. Those are the people I'm referring to. Most people want them to disappear and pretend they don't exist.

 

 

Okay. Now I'm curious, since I work with a Mexican population who can get any help. Perhaps there is a similar population in the States that I'm not aware of.

 

Who can't get food stamps? Who can't get welfare?

[CandaceC]

I haven't read all the replies...but what jumps out at me as I read your post is that the same things upsets me about American Christians living in great wealth while trying to reach out to the homeless down the street. :glare: It bothers me a lot.

[8circles]

I haven't read all the replies...but what jumps out at me as I read your post is that the same things upsets me about American Christians living in great wealth while trying to reach out to the homeless down the street. :glare: It bothers me a lot.

:iagree:

[FaithManor]

I can also identify with Cadam's post. Dh, when he first graduated college, worked for the world headquarters of a major denomination that maintained a world mission's department. The missionaries had absolutely no personal possessions. Even if they dressed nicely or drove something nice, it ALL belonged to the World Headquarters because it was "their churches" that provided it through donations. I knew grandmothers that would buy their daughters and grandchildren clothing so that if the family came home from the mission field and wasn't going to be returning, they would not be expected to surrender their clothing since it was a gift from a family member! Most of them lived decently on the field but were completely destitute state side. And as for the widow thing, at this organization, any retirement funds/pension that had been put away for him was not dispensed to the widow and her children. She was considered "extraneous" material that should be grateful that the mission organization fed and housed her while he was doing the noble work. It was sickening but, some pastors and congregations state side found out (shhhh don't tell them that we spilled the beans) how badly the families were treated and the directors were booted out! The new leadership really turned things around but the saddest thing of all was when it came out that after the birth of a second child, each mission mom was given the ultimatum to have their tubes tied or be ordered off the field because these directors determined that extra children should not be supported. Some actually caved to the pressure but many said "NO WAY" and came home. Sick.

 

Thankfully, this is not the way most charitable organizations with foreign missions are run!

 

We know missionaries with Wycliffe in Papua New Guinea and they seem to be treated very well. Dh and I have been asked to spend a couple of months there teaching science labs and music classes in the boarding high school at the main compound. But, he can't get the time off from work.

 

Faith

[Sputterduck]

I haven't read all the replies...but what jumps out at me as I read your post is that the same things upsets me about American Christians living in great wealth while trying to reach out to the homeless down the street. :glare: It bothers me a lot.

 

You bring up a good point. Ha. I like the way you said that.

 

 

I do know that there is a somewhat prevalent thought that missionaries ought to suffer to be proper missionaries. They way I look at it is, when I came here I expected God to meet my needs and not my wants. But right now he is meeting my wants, and I'm thankful for it. I am thankful that while I have a small child, I can offer him somewhat clean water (okay, it's not great water), somewhat okay emergency medical care (hopefully, heh), a nice house, electricity that is somewhat spotty but mostly ok, warm showers, and a warm bed at night (for the most part, since we have no way to heat the house). He does have to deal with bites from various creatures. At one point he had over 50. And he will probably deal with lice, a lot. The children we work with have it badly. However, all in all, he has a life that I am happy about. I know that we could be living on dirt floors in a hut right now. And I'm fine with doing that, but something inside me is very grateful that while my son is small I can give him more.

[mommaduck]

Okay. Now I'm curious, since I work with a Mexican population who can get any help. Perhaps there is a similar population in the States that I'm not aware of.

 

Who can't get food stamps? Who can't get welfare?

Mostly the homeless. Shelters are limited use and fill up, not always safe. Street people don't always have ID to prove who they are anymore and many are mentally ill. They can't jump through the hoops to get welfare or food stamps. Many are untrusting and scared. We've been in churches where they will give money to missionaries, but when you suggest putting together packages that could benefit these people (socks, underwear, handwarming packets, cans of ready to eat food with can openers, blankets) and taking them down to them, most people will tell you how they can't go do that "because it's too dangerous". Yes, it's dangerous and I would pray constantly on the nights that my husband would go out and do these things...talking and getting to know some of these people even, giving them rides to the shelters on the coldest nights of the year. Knocking on doors in crack neighbourhoods and arranging for people to get help to turn electricity back on for people that weren't able to get the "help" from the welfare system or get them food, because food stamps didn't go far enough and they constantly have to choose food or x,y,z with what little paycheck they have. Yes, he's been there...and thankfully, there was a small group in that area that was willing to go do this also. But most of those people were working poor/class people that were willing...those that have more are more fearful and won't go and many times didn't understand why people wasted their time on "those people" (but that missionary basket is safe).

 

BTW, kudos to you for what you do. My husband would love to do more and probably envy you.

 

Our church sends people down every summer to help fix and build homes in Mexico. My oldest boy and a friend of his are hoping to go next summer.

Edited November 11, 2010 by mommaduck

[Sputterduck]

Mostly the homeless. Shelters are limited use and fill up, not always safe. Street people don't always have ID to prove who they are anymore and many are mentally ill. They can't jump through the hoops to get welfare or food stamps. Many are untrusting and scared. We've been in churches where they will give money to missionaries, but when you suggest putting together packages that could benefit these people (socks, underwear, handwarming packets, cans of ready to eat food with can openers, blankets) and taking them down to them, most people will tell you how they can't go do that "because it's too dangerous". Yes, it's dangerous and I would pray constantly on the nights that my husband would go out and do these things...talking and getting to know some of these people even, giving them rides to the shelters on the coldest nights of the year. Knocking on doors in crack neighbourhoods and arranging for people to get help to turn electricity back on for people that weren't able to get the "help" from the welfare system or get them food, because food stamps didn't go far enough and they constantly have to choose food or x,y,z with what little paycheck they have. Yes, he's been there...and thankfully, there was a small group in that area that was willing to go do this also. But most of those people were working poor/class people that were willing...those that have more are more fearful and won't go and many times didn't understand why people wasted their time on "those people" (but that missionary basket is safe).

 

BTW, kudos to you for what you do. My husband would love to do more and probably envy you.

 

Wow. I have never been to a church without a homeless program! Do people really say "those people"? Yikes.

 

Have you ever considered starting a project that helps homeless people get IDs so they can get help? That would be way awesome. Kudos to your hubby as well for helping out where you are. :)

[jld]

I remember hearing comments from Mexicans in Mexico who marveled at the way the American missionaries lived there. While the missionaries undoubtedly justify their lifestyles, if the population is questioning the lifestyle, I would think a sincere person would want to reflect on that.

 

I would certainly hope all finances were absolutely transparent to any supporter.

 

Whatever happened to treat other people the way you want to be treated? And didn't Jesus tell the rich man to give away his money and follow him? And didn't Paul say not to do whatever made your neighbor stumble?

 

We also know some "missionaries" to France. That just kills my husband, that these people think the Catholic religion is not sufficiently Christian. The man in that family always has lots of free time. Dh thinks that family is having a vacation on their supporters' dime. But if it's okay with the supporters, then I guess it's not really our problem.

 

Religion sure is a big business.;)

[mommaduck]

Wow. I have never been to a church without a homeless program! Do people really say "those people"? Yikes.

 

Have you ever considered starting a project that helps homeless people get IDs so they can get help? That would be way awesome. Kudos to your hubby as well for helping out where you are. :)

My husband and another had first worked with one group and then tried to incorporate the church we were in at the time into helping. People don't say "those people" but you can hear it even unspoken. The main fear is that "it's dangerous" (partially because of racial issues). The church itself was occasionally willing to donate some things, or things that got sent to shelters they would give some to these people to take directly to the streets. But yes, I've known a lot of churches that don't have homeless programs or are even leary of inner city ministry. The bigger a church gets, many times they want to move it out of the city where "it's nicer", not realising the gap they are creating. We are currently in a very outreaching church in many ways...but we are in a different part of the country now where people's attitudes are totally different and people are more socially conscious. You do bring up a good idea...but you have to remember that many homeless have personal boundaries that are very delicate (revealing their life or their identity...these are things some have left far behind. And when mental illness is involved, even moreso delicate). These people also have a sense of pride. One friend recently told me of one that would not take food from her, but if it was ditched in a trashcan, he would take it from there as soon as your back is turned and only if he was certain you weren't watching. This is the kind of work that really has to be down on the street level and sometimes develop a relationship (not easy and agreed, that maybe it takes a certain kind of person to open these kinds of people up). There is a certain kind of "culture" to it, which I believe you could understand from being in another culture.

 

I'm glad my children have grown up with this kind of understanding though and I hope they will lean towards helping people however they are called (meaning here, there, or wherever :) ). Our priests wife is big nouna (mother of the godfather) to two of my daughters and she's already declared that my oldest girl should marry a missionary LOL!

[mommaduck]

I remember hearing comments from Mexicans in Mexico who marveled at the way the American missionaries lived there. While the missionaries undoubtedly justify their lifestyles, if the population is questioning the lifestyle, I would think a sincere person would want to reflect on that.

 

I would certainly hope all finances were absolutely transparent to any supporter.

 

Whatever happened to treat other people the way you want to be treated? And didn't Jesus tell the rich man to give away his money and follow him? And didn't Paul say not to do whatever made your neighbor stumble?

 

We also know some "missionaries" to France. That just kills my husband, that these people think the Catholic religion is not sufficiently Christian. The man in that family always has lots of free time. Dh thinks that family is having a vacation on their supporters' dime. But if it's okay with the supporters, then I guess it's not really our problem.

 

Religion sure is a big business.;)

The same is happening in predominantly Orthodox countries (Russia). Seriously, we need to quit shooting each other.

Edited November 11, 2010 by mommaduck

[Laurie]

 

 

 

Please help me understand or help me get a better attitude about this because it is really bothering me. I know there are many missionaries out there in rough areas and having a hard time but I can tell you that there are hundreds and hundreds of missionaries in Malaysia and they are NOT having a hard time. They live in beautiful homes, drive new cars and give their kids a pricey private education on the backs of less fortunate people supporting them and it just upsets me.

 

Can someone explain it or give me an attitude adjustment? :confused:

 

Just to put the 10,000/year for full tuition at your school in perspective...The tuition at the school where Bill Gates sends his kid is over 25,000/year for high school. The very modest religious school where I used to teach is now over 5,000/year for elementary.

It doesn't seem so extravagant to me if missionaries can send their children to your school for 5,000/year. How do you have the nerve to complain about this when your own children are getting their "pricey private education" for free? And why are your children more deserving of a Christian education than a missionary's kid?

[Ester Maria]

If you're specifically off to another corner of the world to share whatever religion you have with local people and you really ardently believe in so and in the project, then what's the point of self-ghettoization in "luxury" (luxury being a relative term, I mean luxury compared to what the local population has) and isolating your children in a private school not attended by the population you're reaching out to? To my (Jewish) eyes, that looks a bit like preaching one thing and practicing another thing... I met one such couple, and their attitude towards the locals: - all people are brothers, Jesus this, Jesus that, unity, universal love, etc., but ooops, our big kids are in an expensive boarding school in England and our small kids in a private Christian academy segregated from your children, and we live on a totally different level than all of you, but yes, we're absolutely out to reach to you and share our truth with you, we love you... Seems a bit hypocritical to me, I can see why Heather would have a problem with it.

[mommaduck]

If you're specifically off to another corner of the world to share whatever religion you have with local people and you really ardently believe in so and in the project, then what's the point of self-ghettoization in "luxury" (luxury being a relative term, I mean luxury compared to what the local population has) and isolating your children in a private school not attended by the population you're reaching out to? To my (Jewish) eyes, that looks a bit like preaching one thing and practicing another thing... I met one such couple, and their attitude towards the locals: - all people are brothers, Jesus this, Jesus that, unity, universal love, etc., but ooops, our big kids are in an expensive boarding school in England and our small kids in a private Christian academy segregated from your children, and we live on a totally different level than all of you, but yes, we're absolutely out to reach to you and share our truth with you, we love you... Seems a bit hypocritical to me, I can see why Heather would have a problem with it.

I can totally understand and agree with this. However, the ones I've known homeschooled their children while "on the field"...so the children were exposed to everything the parents were exposed to. Some did sign their children up in local schools IF there was one.

 

I can understand the parent's side as well though in that they want to ensure a quality education for their children (maybe in hopes that their children can also be a benefit later...medical personnel are needed everywhere for example) or that the private school may be the only English speaking school around. Simply because the parents have learned a language, does not mean the children are fluent in it yet (I say yet, because TCKs tend to pick up around them). Another reason may be a "guilt" feeling that they are "robbing" their kids of the cultural youth and education THEY received (but I see flaws in this...these kids will never be like their parents as they are TCKs...they will always absorb experiences different and differently and see the world differently ;) ).

 

But I agree with how it would look to the surrounding culture they have placed themselves in, depending on where that is.

Edited November 11, 2010 by mommaduck

[Ester Maria]

I can totally understand and agree with this. However, the ones I've known homeschooled their children while "on the field"...so the children were exposed to everything the parents were exposed to. Some did sign their children up in local schools IF there was one.

Yes, homeschooling / local schools / a combination of the two are a totally different thing, I agree. :) That way one is not excluded from the society they came to with the intention of mingling with the local population. I was actually really shocked upon first hearing about the kind of things Heather describes - I'm not a Christian, so it's not my "issue" at all, but the first time I heard about such "gaps" between missionaries and local populations I thought it was really strange.

[mommaduck]

Yes, homeschooling / local schools / a combination of the two are a totally different thing, I agree. :) That way one is not excluded from the society they came to with the intention of mingling with the local population. I was actually really shocked upon first hearing about the kind of things Heather describes - I'm not a Christian, so it's not my "issue" at all, but the first time I heard about such "gaps" between missionaries and local populations I thought it was really strange.

I thought so also, as it was not what missionaries I was familiar with did. There is an interesting book about a missionary TCK sibling group, called The Happy Room. They were placed in an overseas boarding school while their parents were "on the field" (Africa, I believe). It deals with common issues with TCKs as they go into adulthood and specifically associated with both being TCKs and being separated from their parents in the boarding school. Interesting read from sociological POV.

[Heather in Neverland]

Just to put the 10,000/year for full tuition at your school in perspective...The tuition at the school where Bill Gates sends his kid is over 25,000/year for high school. The very modest religious school where I used to teach is now over 5,000/year for elementary.

It doesn't seem so extravagant to me if missionaries can send their children to your school for 5,000/year. How do you have the nerve to complain about this when your own children are getting their "pricey private education" for free? And why are your children more deserving of a Christian education than a missionary's kid?

 

No need to be rude. I don't think comparing Bill Gates to your everyday family is a fair comparison. My kids go to the school because it is part of my salary and benefits as the principal...and my salary is MUCH MUCH lower than it should be because the school loses revenue every year giving 50% discounts to missionary families (who are all living better than ANY of the teachers at the school whose low salaries are subsidizing that discount).

[Sputterduck]

I remember hearing comments from Mexicans in Mexico who marveled at the way the American missionaries lived there. While the missionaries undoubtedly justify their lifestyles, if the population is questioning the lifestyle, I would think a sincere person would want to reflect on that.

 

I would certainly hope all finances were absolutely transparent to any supporter.

 

Whatever happened to treat other people the way you want to be treated? And didn't Jesus tell the rich man to give away his money and follow him? And didn't Paul say not to do whatever made your neighbor stumble?

 

We also know some "missionaries" to France. That just kills my husband, that these people think the Catholic religion is not sufficiently Christian. The man in that family always has lots of free time. Dh thinks that family is having a vacation on their supporters' dime. But if it's okay with the supporters, then I guess it's not really our problem.

 

Religion sure is a big business.;)

 

I'll respond to this because you specifically bring up Mexico.

 

I am living below American standards. The one nice thing I have is my house, which though it is big and looks nice, has not been kept up for 20 years.

 

How I live looks great, I'm sure, to the people around here. They live on dirt floors. Their children are tiny because they can't afford anything near adequate nutrition. They cook outdoors, over a bare fire, which sucks when it rains. Their children have zero medical care. Their children have zero education. Their children work in the fields. I am here to help them change that. They are motivated and so am I.

 

Should I refuse my child medical care because the people here have none?

Should I refuse my child food because the people here have to with their children?

Should I force my child into manual labor because the children his age here are forced to do so?

 

Why must my lifestyle, which undoubtedly fall below yours, be lowered to match those that suffer here?

[Sputterduck]

If you're specifically off to another corner of the world to share whatever religion you have with local people and you really ardently believe in so and in the project, then what's the point of self-ghettoization in "luxury" (luxury being a relative term, I mean luxury compared to what the local population has) and isolating your children in a private school not attended by the population you're reaching out to? To my (Jewish) eyes, that looks a bit like preaching one thing and practicing another thing... I met one such couple, and their attitude towards the locals: - all people are brothers, Jesus this, Jesus that, unity, universal love, etc., but ooops, our big kids are in an expensive boarding school in England and our small kids in a private Christian academy segregated from your children, and we live on a totally different level than all of you, but yes, we're absolutely out to reach to you and share our truth with you, we love you... Seems a bit hypocritical to me, I can see why Heather would have a problem with it.

 

To add to the things I just said because I saw your post.

 

Should I make my child sleep on a muddy floor at night, shivering, with rain dripping on him?

 

I am helping people out of this situation. Why should I force my family to live it?

 

The local school is far, far behind. It's a waste of time for my little one. His 1st grade friend is just learning now how to count to 30. Why is homeschooling my child telling those around me that I don't love them? If I didn't love them, I'd be in America living my own life for my own self, making good money. Have you ever seriously thought your point of view through?

[Ester Maria]

To add to the things I just said because I saw your post.

 

Should I make my child sleep on a muddy floor at night, shivering, with rain dripping on him?

 

I am helping people out of this situation. Why should I force my family to live it?

I'm not saying what anyone "should" do - I'm not a Christian, nor I'm a very good person, nor I'd ever have the courage to do anything close to what you're doing. I'm only saying what it looks like to an outsider if there are great mismatches between the standard of the missionaries and the standard of the local population.

 

I don't have a problem leading an upper middle class lifestyle among upper middle class - if people from I actively know, live with and socialize with pretty much share my reality.

But, leading an American middle (even lower middle!) class lifestyle among absolute poverty, where people you intentionally came to to befriend them are THAT much below you socioeconomically, I wouldn't feel comfortable. I especially wouldn't feel comfortable doing so if while doing so I were preaching "blessed are the poor" and things along those lines, or preaching that one of the greatness of Jesus is precisely in him lowering himself to human level - to the very bottom of the human level, to be treated that way! - to save us, and all the other expressions like that I hear from Christians, and if I were to model Christian behavior to certain people by my lifestyle, if I were to represent it, in a way. That's where the mismatch of "theory" and "practice" occurs in my eyes.

 

ETA:

@ mommaduck: Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out. :)

Edited November 11, 2010 by Ester Maria

[Sputterduck]

I'm not saying what anyone "should" do - I'm not a Christian, nor I'm a very good person, nor I'd ever have the courage to do anything close to what you're doing. I'm only saying what it looks like to an outsider if there are great mismatches between the standard of the missionaries and the standard of the local population.

 

I don't have a problem leading an upper middle class lifestyle among upper middle class - if people from I actively know, live with and socialize with pretty much share my reality.

But, leading an American middle (even lower middle!) class lifestyle among absolute poverty, where people you intentionally came to to befriend them are THAT much below you socioeconomically, I wouldn't feel comfortable. I especially wouldn't feel comfortable doing so if while doing so I were preaching "blessed are the poor" and things along those lines, or preaching that one of the greatness of Jesus is precisely in him lowering himself to human level - to the very bottom of the human level, to be treated that way! - to save us, and all the other expressions like that I hear from Christians, and if I were to model Christian behavior to certain people by my lifestyle, if I were to represent it, in a way. That's where the mismatch of "theory" and "practice" occurs in my eyes.

 

 

It's wrong to make my family suffer, if I can prevent it. It's also wrong to let other people suffer, if I can prevent it. I am not going to hurt my child in an attempt to help others out of poverty. I refuse to hurt my child, in fact.

 

I also refuse to let these people suffer because I do love them. I do what I can. I wish with everything I am that I could do more. I am not sure why I ought to suffer in doing that. They have most of my money and my time. Should I give them my health as well? I already am to some degree. The recurrent bouts of illness that come from living here are not fun.

 

How would sleeping on a mud floor during mud flow season show love? How would scavenging for food scraps show love?

 

In their culture, providing food and clothes to family is how they express love. (Quite different than the American take on it) We provide both. That is their language of love, thankfully. I'm glad it's not forsaking healthy conditions that communicates love in their culture.

[FaithManor]

I absolutely agree that missionaries should not live afluently on someone else's dollar.

 

But, most of what the angry/bitter people in this thread describe is as follows....live in abject poverty just like the people you are seeking to help. So, pardon me if I have NO INTENTION and would NEVER ask another parent anywhere in this entire universe to deliberately subject their children to paltry education, typhoid/cholera/yellow fever/ebola/ due to bad water, malaria due to lack of mosquito netting, malnourishment/developmental delays/possible death from lack of proper food, illness from exposure. Has it ever occured to anyone that what you might describe as a "lower class American house" or slumlord rental might not even be adequate to shield that family from monsoons, etc.? It's really kind of hard to keep your medical equipment clean, much less sterilized, when the bugs crawl through every crevice, the windows don't seal, the roof leaks, and the dirt floor is full of parasites!

 

I know one missionary doctor who would die (he must have special foods because of health problems) under the conditions many think charitable workers should live under. Is a dead doctor helpful to anyone? If the conditions that you live in are so deplorable that you spend most of your energies attempting to survive like everyone else, will you have any time left to help anyone?

 

So, to recap...according to many, anyone who wants to help someone else should forfeit everything so as not to appear "better" than those they are trying to assist. Therefore, when I took groceries, vitamins, and baked goods to a destitute mother and her children two miles from my house, I should have given away the rest of the food in my home so our family was just as hungry as hers and since she is losing her home to repossession and I have a nice house, I should have ran to the bank and handed them the keys? This way we would be no "better" than her?

 

I know I sound riled. I am...yes, maybe a few missionaries live a little too "high off the hog" but to assume that the only proper way to make a difference in any part of the world is for you and your children to die young like the citizens of that nation...I don't buy it!

 

Sputterduck - you keep on keeping on...you are doing what is best for your son and helping others to boot. In my book, you are doing great!

 

Faith

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know I sound riled. I am...yes, maybe a few missionaries live a little too "high off the hog" but to assume that the only proper way to make a difference in any part of the world is for you and your children to die young like the citizens of that nation...I don't buy it!

 

Sputterduck - you keep on keeping on...you are doing what is best for your son and helping others to boot. In my book, you are doing great!

 

Faith

 

:iagree: (And I'm riled too.)

[AuntieM]

Of course Furlough might actually be a rest for the weary if churches would take on full support for fewer missionaries instead of giving tiny amounts to a bunch just so that their "missions wall" can be filled up with those cute, out of date pictures that give them warm fuzzies.... but I digress.

 

 

Our church supports only three missionary families. But we support each of these 100%, so when they come stateside they do not have to run the gauntlet. Each of these families started as members of this church, so they have long term relationships with many of the members. As a "sender," I really like this support model.

 

Heather, I have had similar feelings, but not from an expat point of view. Several years ago we lived in a city that was home to several of the largest mission organizations in North America. Many of the people we went to church with were vocational missionaries (ie, full-time) living in the same suburbs we lived in. We agreed to support a few, but I personally started to become a bit bitter about it when I was giving up piano lessons and other enrichment activities for my kids, to stay within budget (including giving), while at the same time these professional missionaries were spending money on all those niceties and much more (like expensive private sports coaches) for their kids.

 

{ETA: I'm not saying that the children of these missionaries don't deserve nice things and equal opportunities. I'm saying that if I can't afford them for my own children, I shouldn't be financing them for someone else's children, missionaries or not.}

 

DH and I eventually withdrew financial support from this type of missionary, and made a list of criteria for selecting whom to support in the future. Sad as it is, we have learned that we have to approach the whole support issue as though we are consumers making a major purchase. It feels rather cold, but we chalk it up as proper stewardship.

Edited November 12, 2010 by AuntieM

[Jean in Newcastle]

No need to be rude. I don't think comparing Bill Gates to your everyday family is a fair comparison. My kids go to the school because it is part of my salary and benefits as the principal...and my salary is MUCH MUCH lower than it should be because the school loses revenue every year giving 50% discounts to missionary families (who are all living better than ANY of the teachers at the school whose low salaries are subsidizing that discount).

 

I'm going to respond to this. I went to a school like yours. In our case, the staff were supported by different mission boards. Our mission board was one of those who had teachers at the school. And yes, the teachers got a smaller "salary"/support check than the career missionaries did. This was for a couple of reasons:

 

1. Most teachers only stayed for 2 or 3 years. They were short term missionaries really who could live on less for a short period of time. The career missionaries had to depend on their support for all stages in their families' life.

 

2. The teachers in our school lived in a "mini US" compound around the school. They did not have as big transportation needs as the career missionaries and had a lot of social activities built into school life that the missionaries had to go elsewhere for, if they could find it.

 

3. While teachers do put in long hours, they did not put in as long hours as the career missionaries who literally would/could get calls at any hour of the night, and were busy during the workweek and weekends.

 

4. The teachers and other administration and school staff were seen as support positions to the career missionaries. I know that they had their own ministries to the children but the children were there because the career missionaries were there.

 

I'm not going to argue if any of these reasons are fair etc. I do know that they were the reasons things were disparate on the mission field where I grew up.

[Rosie_0801]

Why would Christian missions be any better than aid agencies? I would expect them to be worse.

 

A lot of the aid agencies are Christian. I suppose I see them as much of a muchness. The problem has rather less to do with religion and rather more to do with bureaucracy, I would think.

 

Anyway, my experience with missionaries was limited to the American couple who housesat next door to us. They were working for Wycliffe too. Wretched people kept insisting we call biscuits cookies! Cultural imperialism, that's what it was! :tongue_smilie: The people who owned the house went on a couple of mission trips to PNG to teach. If we want to believe in predestination, it was her who set me on the road to meeting my half deaf hubby by teaching me a song in signed English in the church choir when I was 8.

 

:)

Rosie

[jld]

"Career" missionaries? Families sending their kids away to boarding school so they can do Christian work? Would Jesus have ever told people to send their children away to do some work for him? That's incomprehensible to me.

 

Maybe it's because I come from a Catholic background, but I don't understand sending families abroad to do this. I heard once of a priest who was serving among the poor in Honduras, and actually became a citizen and just lived as the poor he was with did. I think Mother Theresa did, too.

 

Must just be a different philosophy.

[Deb in NZ]

"Career" missionaries? Families sending their kids away to boarding school so they can do Christian work? Would Jesus have ever told people to send their children away to do some work for him? That's incomprehensible to me.

QUOTE]

 

:iagree:

[Dayle in Guatemala]

First off, I want to fully disclose for those who don't "know" me and my situation, we are full-time missionaries with Youth With A Mission in Guatemala. We raise our own money and live on what comes in each month. Sometimes it gets a tad bit creative! ;)

 

There are missions organizations that fully fund their missionaries. The missionaries do not have to go out and raise their own support, they get a salary from the organization. Things like a nice car and all the stuff that goes with that car (repairs, upkeep, licensing, etc.) is all covered. Their residency fees are covered and taken care of. Their taxes are taken care of. Their housing and ministry fees are covered. Their travel expenses while they are on the field and when they are on furlough are all covered. Their kids' educations are completely covered, whatever that looks like for them.

 

The downside--many demands are made on the couple to perform a LOT of responsibilities since they are completely funded by the mission. There isn't time for things like schooling your children or even taking care of the family things.

 

They do mostly live in houses and have lives I could never have or actually even want to have to be honest. They are beautiful, but, they do set them a part from the people they minister to.

 

We live in a nice house, not fancy, but, dry in the rainy season! Our neighborhood isn't affluent, it's nice and safe for our family. We minister to those on the streets mostly so security is a bit important to us!

 

It bothers me too. We are so careful with things. We try to make sure that when money comes in for something it goes specifically to that thing. When I'm planning on doing something out of the ordinary I ask myself, does this justify the sacrifice some of our supporters make to keep us here? We do go to movies and out to eat occasionally, but, we make things like that the exception rather than the rule.

 

Missionaries shouldn't live with a poverty mentality, but, they should remember what sacrifices the people in the US sometimes go through to keep them where they are and act accordingly.

[Audrey]

I think you have every right to be bothered by this. I think I would start to worry when it stops bothering you.

[Heather in Neverland]

First off, I want to fully disclose for those who don't "know" me and my situation, we are full-time missionaries with Youth With A Mission in Guatemala. We raise our own money and live on what comes in each month. Sometimes it gets a tad bit creative! ;)

 

There are missions organizations that fully fund their missionaries. The missionaries do not have to go out and raise their own support, they get a salary from the organization. Things like a nice car and all the stuff that goes with that car (repairs, upkeep, licensing, etc.) is all covered. Their residency fees are covered and taken care of. Their taxes are taken care of. Their housing and ministry fees are covered. Their travel expenses while they are on the field and when they are on furlough are all covered. Their kids' educations are completely covered, whatever that looks like for them.

 

.

 

Dayle, I was hoping you would chime in! This describes the situation I witness here. These missionaries are with large organizations that pay for everything...they do NOT go church to church raising their own funds.

 

However, the funds for the huge mission organizations DO come from churches...from people giving money to the fund.

 

Please understand...I am NOT saying that missionaries should live in poverty or even at the same standard of those they minister to. However, I AM saying they should NOT be living FAR ABOVE the standard of the people back in the U.S. that are sending them the money. THAT is what bothers me.

 

Dh and I are not called to be missionaries per se. Neither of us are pastors/preachers or have skills that would help like doctor/dentist/engineer. But I did read a study a few years back that said one of the main reasons that missionaries leave the field is because they can't get a good education for their kids.

 

So I thought, That's how I can help!!! I came here thinking I would be helping missionaries out, making it easier for them to do their work without having to worry about no education for their kids. Imagine my surprise when I got here and saw what "missionary" life is like here. I am suddenly part of this affluent community that is head and shoulders above the rest of the island and there are PLENTY of educational options here for missionaries INCLUDING homeschooling.

 

Instead I see missionary wives going to starbucks and the gym and the mall all day in their brand new cars while I work for a FRACTION of what I was getting paid in the states to "help them be able to stay in the field"... and while people back in the U.S. struggle to make ends meet and yet put money in the missionary offering every month. And that is supposed to NOT bother me?

[Laura Corin]

Instead I see missionary wives going to starbucks and the gym and the mall all day in their brand new cars while I work for a FRACTION of what I was getting paid in the states to "help them be able to stay in the field"... and while people back in the U.S. struggle to make ends meet and yet put money in the missionary offering every month. And that is supposed to NOT bother me?

 

It would definitely bother me. I hope that you are gaining other benefits from living in Malaysia, and that you and your family are thriving.

 

Laura

[mommaduck]

Instead I see missionary wives going to starbucks and the gym and the mall all day in their brand new cars while I work for a FRACTION of what I was getting paid in the states to "help them be able to stay in the field"... and while people back in the U.S. struggle to make ends meet and yet put money in the missionary offering every month. And that is supposed to NOT bother me?

:grouphug:

[Renee in NC]

"Career" missionaries? Families sending their kids away to boarding school so they can do Christian work? Would Jesus have ever told people to send their children away to do some work for him? That's incomprehensible to me.

 

Maybe it's because I come from a Catholic background, but I don't understand sending families abroad to do this. I heard once of a priest who was serving among the poor in Honduras, and actually became a citizen and just lived as the poor he was with did. I think Mother Theresa did, too.

 

Must just be a different philosophy.

 

There are Catholic missionary families, but it is a very different scenario than what is being discussed here. My brother and SIL almost went long-term to Honduras, and, due to Catholic teachings, most likely would have had children there as well. (It obviously wasn't God's plan for them, because something happened that could be nothing but divine intervention that led him to where he is now - in mission in this country.)

 

However, the people in mission where they went in Honduras, both monks and lay people alike, lived much like the locals did. There really weren't much differences except their building was more permanant than the houses of the people around them. This was by design as the local people could come there to be safe in the event of a major hurricane. They ate what the people ate, they walked everywhere, there was no A/C, etc.

 

I think Catholic missions in general are very different than Protestant ones, though, in focus and scope. That may account for the differences.

[Renee in NC]

Dayle, I was hoping you would chime in! This describes the situation I witness here. These missionaries are with large organizations that pay for everything...they do NOT go church to church raising their own funds.

 

However, the funds for the huge mission organizations DO come from churches...from people giving money to the fund.

 

Please understand...I am NOT saying that missionaries should live in poverty or even at the same standard of those they minister to. However, I AM saying they should NOT be living FAR ABOVE the standard of the people back in the U.S. that are sending them the money. THAT is what bothers me.

 

Dh and I are not called to be missionaries per se. Neither of us are pastors/preachers or have skills that would help like doctor/dentist/engineer. But I did read a study a few years back that said one of the main reasons that missionaries leave the field is because they can't get a good education for their kids.

 

So I thought, That's how I can help!!! I came here thinking I would be helping missionaries out, making it easier for them to do their work without having to worry about no education for their kids. Imagine my surprise when I got here and saw what "missionary" life is like here. I am suddenly part of this affluent community that is head and shoulders above the rest of the island and there are PLENTY of educational options here for missionaries INCLUDING homeschooling.

 

Instead I see missionary wives going to starbucks and the gym and the mall all day in their brand new cars while I work for a FRACTION of what I was getting paid in the states to "help them be able to stay in the field"... and while people back in the U.S. struggle to make ends meet and yet put money in the missionary offering every month. And that is supposed to NOT bother me?

 

:grouphug:

 

That would bother me, too. I don't begrudge anyone what they have - really and truly. This seems a little nuts, though! My brother raises support for his missions, but no one would ever accuse him of living the high life. They live simply and always will. He is very aware of the fact that some of the people supporting him are sacrificing to do so. He even took a 20% cut when the economy didn't recover as quickly as they wanted. He and his wife knew that a life of sacrifice was going to be the norm when they went into missions.

[Jean in Newcastle]

"Career" missionaries?

 

I'm the one who used the term "career" missionaries. I put the term in quotes for a reason. The term is simply one that I used to differentiate a long term missionary who goes to a mission field for the extent of a normal working career from someone there for a shorter time. Some are there longer just as many people work longer in secular jobs. But often age and illness issues force them to retire. It used to be that many young men and women went to the mission field right out of college and seminary and that was their life's work until age and/or illness made them come "home" to their home country. These men and women often married while on the mission field, had children and raised a family, all while continuing their calling. You still see this today but not in as great numbers.

 

Many more people today decide at a later time in their working life that they would like to give up some time (ether a portion of time or the remainder of their life) to missions. I call these people short-term missionaries.

[freethinkermama]

"Career" missionaries? Families sending their kids away to boarding school so they can do Christian work? Would Jesus have ever told people to send their children away to do some work for him? That's incomprehensible to me.

QUOTE]

 

:iagree:

 

This bothered me, too. When we were with a missionary organization, I learned that one of my friends had grown up, basically, in a boarding school in Indonesia, while her parents were busily converting Muslims. I was a missionary at the time, and wanted to live overseas, but I knew then that I'd never send my kids away from me so that I could "serve".

 

By the time I met her, her parents were living well in Colorado Springs, and were quite well off. Still international leaders of the missionary group we were with.

 

I don't think that missionaries need to live in mud huts, though another Charity former-friend of mine does just that in Africa, with her 3 children and a national "4th child" they've quasi-adopted, who I think mostly serves as her maid/mother's helper. They never actually bring her to the states when they're on furloug.

 

However, I remember raising funds and asking for money from churches. We were barely getting by, and then there were the rich folks, who were absurdly wealthy living on the "love offerings" of poorer bretheren, even here in the States.

 

It's not all like this, but certainly there's enough of it that it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

 

*Edited to add: I just went to my Charity acquaintance's missions page. It doesn't look like they still have their "daughter/maid".

Edited November 12, 2010 by freethinkermama
update

[jld]

However, the people in mission where they went in Honduras, both monks and lay people alike, lived much like the locals did. There really weren't much differences except their building was more permanant than the houses of the people around them. This was by design as the local people could come there to be safe in the event of a major hurricane. They ate what the people ate, they walked everywhere, there was no A/C, etc.

 

I think Catholic missions in general are very different than Protestant ones, though, in focus and scope. That may account for the differences.

 

I went to a Catholic high school for my last two years in high school, and there was such an emphasis on social justice. To me, it just seems normal that a missionary would want to share life with the people they are "serving" -- truly share life, just like Jesus would have. I can't imagine Jesus living like the people Heather describes.

 

And I really cannot get over the idea of sending children away from their parents so their parents can do Christian work, although this is apparently common and accepted. Maybe it's just me, but I really think the first duty of parents is to their children.

[mommaduck]

I went to a Catholic high school for my last two years in high school, and there was such an emphasis on social justice. To me, it just seems normal that a missionary would want to share life with the people they are "serving" -- truly share life, just like Jesus would have. I can't imagine Jesus living like the people Heather describes.

 

And I really cannot get over the idea of sending children away from their parents so their parents can do Christian work, although this is apparently common and accepted. Maybe it's just me, but I really think the first duty of parents is to their children.

It's not just you ;)

[Renee in NC]

I went to a Catholic high school for my last two years in high school, and there was such an emphasis on social justice. To me, it just seems normal that a missionary would want to share life with the people they are "serving" -- truly share life, just like Jesus would have. I can't imagine Jesus living like the people Heather describes.

 

And I really cannot get over the idea of sending children away from their parents so their parents can do Christian work, although this is apparently common and accepted. Maybe it's just me, but I really think the first duty of parents is to their children.

 

From what I have seen, Catholic missions work on evangelization *through* social justice as opposed to evangelization with/or without social justice. There is a difference. I think the difference is that Catholics are there to serve others and Protestants are there to convert them (not saying that they don't serve them or that it is necessarily a "one is better than the other" attitude, but just that there is a different focus.)

[Dayle in Guatemala]

Dayle, I was hoping you would chime in! This describes the situation I witness here. These missionaries are with large organizations that pay for everything...they do NOT go church to church raising their own funds.

 

However, the funds for the huge mission organizations DO come from churches...from people giving money to the fund.

 

Please understand...I am NOT saying that missionaries should live in poverty or even at the same standard of those they minister to. However, I AM saying they should NOT be living FAR ABOVE the standard of the people back in the U.S. that are sending them the money. THAT is what bothers me.

 

Dh and I are not called to be missionaries per se. Neither of us are pastors/preachers or have skills that would help like doctor/dentist/engineer. But I did read a study a few years back that said one of the main reasons that missionaries leave the field is because they can't get a good education for their kids.

 

So I thought, That's how I can help!!! I came here thinking I would be helping missionaries out, making it easier for them to do their work without having to worry about no education for their kids. Imagine my surprise when I got here and saw what "missionary" life is like here. I am suddenly part of this affluent community that is head and shoulders above the rest of the island and there are PLENTY of educational options here for missionaries INCLUDING homeschooling.

 

Instead I see missionary wives going to starbucks and the gym and the mall all day in their brand new cars while I work for a FRACTION of what I was getting paid in the states to "help them be able to stay in the field"... and while people back in the U.S. struggle to make ends meet and yet put money in the missionary offering every month. And that is supposed to NOT bother me?

 

 

 

I would be surprised if it didn't bother you. It absolutely should! It's wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

I agree! Missionaries shouldn't live in total poverty, unless they are called by God to do so!

 

I also don't think people should take advantage of the people who are supporting them. Many of our supporters give us $25 per month--and that is a sacrifice right now for them. I feel responsible to use that $25 in the best way possible because they are taking the time to send it in and trust us. It's something I feel we will personally answer to God for.

 

I hate when I see missionaries take for granted the money that comes in from the US. I hate when they misrepresent themselves to get more. It happens. It's ugly.

 

I think it's really important for churches and individuals to really check into the missionary they are supporting on a regular basis. Find out if what they say they are doing, they are actually doing. I think in some cases you'd be surprised!

 

All that to say, MOST missionaries I know are on the up and up. They are aware of the sacrifices of their supporters and try to make sure they are responsible with the money that comes in. I am blown away by the sacrifices that missionaries make on a daily basis!

 

Unfortunately, not all are what they appear to be. That makes it hard for people like us who are really trying to reach the people and make a difference for them. It's tough raising support, it's tough maintaining support, and it's worse when this kind of thing happens.

[Embassy]

Don't you know missionaries are supposed to use recycled tea bags and toilet paper?

 

Seriously, it is hypocritical to suggest that a missionary should live at a lower standard that his peers in the Western hemisphere. Are you willing to have a lower standard of living in order to give to missions? I'm not talking about cutting a little off a tight budget. Are you willing to downsize your living space, cut down on your food options, and have unreliable transportation for the sake of missions? If you are or if you are doing so then and only then do you have the right to complain. Missionaries have given up the comfort of life in the West for the sake of the Gospel and we are picking at them about the house they live in?

 

Some missionaries may have a few comforts that you wish you had, but they are probably living on much less than you are. In many countries the cost of living is ridiculously low. Dh and I are looking into moving to that part of the world. We can get a mammoth house for a fraction of the tiny place we are renting now. $200 could mean the difference between a typical place in that country and a huge house. A family could live very well on only $1000 per month in some places.

 

We can pay doctors huge salaries. We can pay athletes huge salaries without a problem. But if a missionary happens to have a nicer house or car than you they are being paid too much? Really? What do we value anyway?

[J-rap]

There's a lot here that has bothered me, too, although it's hard to put it into words. I'm glad that missionary parents have the option of sending their children to a private school nearby nowadays; I know that years ago, many were required to send them to boarding schools. A private, English-speaking school would enable to them to be educated in a system where they are safe and comfortable.

 

Also, I can understand that a small income here might go a lot farther in another country! So even though the income is small, a family might be able to afford a quite nice home in that country. Of course, then you have to question whether that much nicer home separates the missionary from the people he or she is trying to reach.

 

One of my biggest issues is how the money is earned. If a missionary is earnest and hard-working and offering a real service, then I don't mind them asking for money, I guess. But I see too many kids coming out of high school and deciding to be "missionaries" -- without any thought or concern about where they'll get their money. They just assume their church and private individuals will pay for everything!

 

I remember a movie with Ingrid Bergman (sp?) playing the part of an English missionary to China. It is based on a true story. She had to work for two years or so just to earn enough money to GET to China. She was not considering this just a big, fun adventure, but really had a heart to serve Christ in China, and was willing to do anything to make it work.

 

I can't even tell you how many letters we get from 18-21 year old kids each year asking money for their month long or three-month long missionary trip to Bermuda, or maybe Florida... They don't earn a penny of it themselves. And our church supports a couple who lives in Eastern Europe, and the only thing we have really seen them do in the period of a year is hang out at coffee shops hoping to witness to others. They really totally on others to fund them. Wow -- I would have LOVED to have done something like that after college!

 

Then I think of my own son who spent a year traveling across Europe on his bike, alone. He spoke to many people about Christ, and ended up giving up his own Bible many times over to those who had a hunger for Him. Perhaps he did as much as some missionaries? But he spent several years saving up for this trip and funded the whole thing himself, stopping to volunteer at places there when his funds were running low.

 

My daughter served as a missionary for a year in Costa Rica. We didn't allow her to ask others to support her. We wanted her to know that missionary work is serious business... it is not just a fun adventure that you ask others to pay for. We told her she would need to stay home first and work and earn money herself for the year abroad, which she did.

 

I'm not saying it should be like that all the time, but we wanted her to understand the seriousness of it and know that it is hard work, not just a fun adventure abroad.

 

All that being said, I know of many missionaries who have given up a lot and have worked in very difficult and challenging areas, with not much money. Sorry if it sounds like I feel only negative about this, I really don't.

[lionfamily1999]

 

See, this is what I don't get. How do people become "well-off" as missionaries, for crying out loud? Someone mentioned missionaries buying a $360,000 house? How did that happen? I don't get it. I can't imagine Jesus doing something like that.

 

That's why I think religion has become a big business. Get the money out of it, and it might start looking more like what Jesus meant it to.

My aunt and uncle are long term missionaries. Before they started their missions, though, they were both successful people. They still own their home, although their son is living there now, they still have quite a bit of money set aside for when they retire.

 

I think it's dangerous to make too many assumptions, and I think it can become VERY divisive. Like Jean pointed out, what can look like a mismanaging of funds is really a case of good stewardship.

[Heather in Neverland]

I would be surprised if it didn't bother you. It absolutely should! It's wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

I agree! Missionaries shouldn't live in total poverty, unless they are called by God to do so!

 

I also don't think people should take advantage of the people who are supporting them. Many of our supporters give us $25 per month--and that is a sacrifice right now for them. I feel responsible to use that $25 in the best way possible because they are taking the time to send it in and trust us. It's something I feel we will personally answer to God for.

 

I hate when I see missionaries take for granted the money that comes in from the US. I hate when they misrepresent themselves to get more. It happens. It's ugly.

 

.

 

I just love you Dayle. Thank you for being so honest AND for being so conscientious about the money people give to your mission. People like YOU make me still have faith in missionary work.

 

As if all this is not enough to bum me out...tonight I found out about another avenue...something called "business as missions"...from a family at a school event this evening. Apparently it goes like this: people come to a country like this and open a business (which is a smart thing to do since Malaysia is growing like crazy). Then they use the money (so I am told) to do mission work here on the side (although the type of mission work is quite nebulous). These people are all quite well off. But they have a business and earn their money. Good for them.

 

But what chaps me? They apply to our school as missionaries and get a 50% discount when they are MORE than able to afford the full rate. It is because we offer mission discounts to half of our student population that my teachers make such low salaries ... barely enough to get by.

 

Maybe it is just "disillusion Heather week" and no one told me...sigh.

[mommaduck]

I just love you Dayle. Thank you for being so honest AND for being so conscientious about the money people give to your mission. People like YOU make me still have faith in missionary work.

 

As if all this is not enough to bum me out...tonight I found out about another avenue...something called "business as missions"...from a family at a school event this evening. Apparently it goes like this: people come to a country like this and open a business (which is a smart thing to do since Malaysia is growing like crazy). Then they use the money (so I am told) to do mission work here on the side (although the type of mission work is quite nebulous). These people are all quite well off. But they have a business and earn their money. Good for them.

 

But what chaps me? They apply to our school as missionaries and get a 50% discount when they are MORE than able to afford the full rate. It is because we offer mission discounts to half of our student population that my teachers make such low salaries ... barely enough to get by.

 

Maybe it is just "disillusion Heather week" and no one told me...sigh.

It originally started out as "tent making". Doctors, builders, people that would be a benefit to communities and countries that NEED them...and countries that people cannot enter as "missionaries". But these people don't generally live "high on the hog" and either homeschool or send their children to local schools.

 

Sounds like the "rules" need to be re-evaluated and some restrictions put into place for the security of the school. Some of us have our rose coloured glasses removed less gently than others (so been there).

[stormy weather]

My question is, do we(Christians) ever really hold ourselves to the same standards that we hold others to? I know I don't. I see others faults very well from the outside. I'm sure others do the same to me, looking at my life from the outside. But many of the things people get to judging others for are a matter of conscience or conviction. While we are asked to avoid things that make others "stumble" we are also asked not to judge, to let God do the judging. I've been reading this thread from the start and I just had to say that FWIW

[FaithManor]

Heather should report what she has witnessed. It is bothering her conscience and she is seeing things that are for her and the country in which she lives, red flags of the abuse of goodwill and charitable funds. I agree with her that women who are supposed to be there "doing good", hanging out at the mall and having their nails done or whatever, is WRONG! If it costs the school $10,000.00 a year to educate a kid, then the US supporters need to provide that or I guess, those missionaries need to subject their kids to the crappy government schools or come home to the States or Europe or wherever they are from...the school should not suffer for scholarships it can not afford to give. Those that are in the country earning a living that would allow them to pay for full tuition should be paying full tuition..applying for an unneeded scholarship that the school can ill afford to offer, is WRONG!!! Please Heather, write some letters, make some phone calls, talk turkey to some people, and blow the whistle. This is best for all involved!

 

As for homeschooling, this is one reason that Dh rejected the job in Kuala Lumpur. We couldn't quite afford, on his salary from the private sector job he was offered, to have a home for five in a decent neighborhood, and decent medical coverage (another killer was also the lack of expert pediatric cardiac care available and ds must have access to this should his condition worsen), and some household help for me so that I could volunteer for the relief group we wanted to work with, and $15,000.00 per year tuition to Heather's school for three children. We came pretty close to a budget that would have gotten us in the ball park, but tooooooo close for comfort. No wiggle room. Homeschooling is severely restricted in Malaysia though many do it illegally. There is a very, very limited set of circumstances under which a person can gain approval for homeschooling from the government. You must have government approval, applications take 6-12 months to be processed and that's if they aren't lost to begin with. We researched this heavily as an option to not paying tuition for the school and this is what we found out. Thailand did not regulate homeschooling amongst expats and the quality of pediatric care in the capitol city was much better which is why he considered that Oracle DBA job and there was a relief agency that we would have really liked to work with. Once the guerilla wars began in the city. we decided that we'd stay put.

 

Abuse happens; Look at what happened at United Way several years ago - this is a secular organization so Christians aren't the only ones with these kinds of woes. It needs to be dealt with....I am however, very concerned that in this thread the general attitude is that all individuals who go with a religious organization to another country to try to help the poor, sick, etc. are at best, merely bad parents, and at worst, money sucking leeches whose work is of no value.

 

So that those who feel that religious missionaries are evil, I will relate to you a true story of a family who did what most of you think is "appropriate" for charitable aid workers and the consequences thereof.

 

The American young couple found out they were expecting their first child. The country - Haiti. Mid-way through the pregnancy, the mom got into a health crisis and the medical clinic on the mission compound, operated by independent doctors from the US, felt she should come home. They didn't have the means to deal with her issues effectively and were very worried for the health of the baby. The mission's board said, "No, you must experience pregnancy and childbirth in the village in the same way as the women to whom you minister. This will strengthen their trust in you." She stayed...the baby was born premature and though she survived, was severely brain damaged because of the lack of neo-natal care...the clinic doctors did not have an intubation kit small enough for the baby. The little girl is now ten years old and functions at about a six month level. As for quitting and coming home, they didn't have a credit card (had to be surrendered so that they would not be able to live "above" the villargers" in order to book their own tickets and the mission's organization took in all of their money from supporters and then parted it out monthly. They didn't have enough to purchase the tickets. They were stuck. Of course, when their term was up...three months after the birth of their now irreparably damaged daughter, they told the mission's organization where to go and when to get there. They live stateside and are very hard hearted about relief work. Literally, as far as they are concerned, no one should lift a d*mn finger to help any one in another country because you are d*mned if you do and d*mned if you don't.

 

So, for you all that believe that missionaries should live in the same conditions as the people they seek to help, you can be happy to know that we personally know and have tried to help a couple who did exactly that and their US supporters can be gratified that they suffered exactly what the families of the village face every day the death or near death of their infants and irreparable damage from lack of access to appropriate medical care - except now those villagers face worse because this couple brought serious agricultural expertise as well as built single home water purifiers for the residents of the village - now they are without that help.

 

Gone is the huge community garden that their knowledge helped the villagers maintain for both food and the sale of produce which brought in vital income. Water purifiers that need repair aren't being repaired and new ones aren't being built...the rates of disease and parasitical infections has skyrocketed again. The orchard, in a fledgeling state, did not survive once they left the country. And a little girl will suffer terribly for what short life she has left. Does everyone who is bitter against Christian relief workers feel warm fuzzies now? Exactly what has been suggested multiple, multiple, multiple, times in this thread happened. They subjected themselves to the exact same conditions as the people they sought to help. So obviously, under this "logic", the outcome is acceptable if not welcome. Right??? Heather, I am not suggesting in any way, that you personally feel that Christian relief workers should live in poverty and not have access to adequate medical care or that it is right for their children to suffer. What you are seeing is very, very different from that and on the other extreme of the pendulum's swing.

 

Personally, the same Jesus who did ask his men to forsake all and follow him also said, "Suffer not the little children to come unto me" and suggested that anyone who would deliberately harm a child should consider tying a mill stone (ever seen one of these things....THEY ARE HUGE) around his neck and throw himself in the sea! I have to say, I don't think He'd be pleased by the few missionaries abusing charitable giving and I am very certain he isn't pleased by the other extreme either.

 

Faith, who is heart broken by this whole discussion and should really just get off the boards and go teach an unhappy child his algebra lesson.