Would you be okay with receiving this form letter...

[NanceXToo]

From a special needs school your child attends?

 

"This school year we are continuing the Restorative Practice approach when dealing with issues at (school). Part of the approach includes engaging students in a weekly circle discussion. During this circle time, students are encouraged to participate in discussing a chosen topic. At times, the discussion topics may include, but are not limited to, bullying, high school cliques, gender issues, alcohol and drug use and abuse, physical/sexual/mental abuse. Periodically, we will be utilizing multimedia (videos/DVD/CDs) to show scenarios depicting these sensitive issues."

 

There's more but that's the gist of it.

 

My daughter is 18... but not a "normal" 18. This is a special education/special needs/life skills type of setting. She does work at like a second grade level. Socially, emotionally, mentally, developmentally etc, she's nowhere near her "real" age.

 

Without getting to preview exactly what they'll be showing on these videos, without knowing what direction they will take talks about things like sexual, physical and mental abuse (which can be disturbing to say the least, and I would not want it to be more than my daughter could really understand and/or emotionally handle), I am feeling somewhat uncomfortable with this.

 

This isn't a permission slip or anything, it's just an FYI kind of letter and at the end it says "If you need more information or have any questions, please contact so and so."

 

What would you think....? Am I over-reacting a bit to worry some about this?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would ask for more information. It could be that considering the disabilities at the school that it is developmentally appropriate. But if the school has a range of developmental levels, they need to be sure that they divide the kids accordingly and only show things that are appropriate to their emotional as well as cognitive level.

 

I don't think you're overreacting to be worried, but I also see a need to address these things. If she doesn't know what to do, she can become a victim so easily.

[samba]

I'd be worried. I also have a MH child and it's even more important to guard their developmental readiness for sensitive issues. You have no control over the topic, the direction the topic will take, or the info you dd will hear from the other students. I'd be discussing it with someone. :glare:

 

Carolyn

[Hedgehog]

I'd be glad to have information about the class! Without having teenagers or any dc with special needs, I still have the strong feeling that I'd never allow any of my dc to participate in such a class or watch any such videos, without at least knowing what was going to be presented in advance. JMO.

[Starr]

I would give them a call or stop in for a chat. It is important that your dd knows when to say no but you know best how to give her that information.

[Garga]

 

This isn't a permission slip or anything, it's just an FYI kind of letter and at the end it says "If you need more information or have any questions, please contact so and so."

 

 

Sounds like you need more information and have questions and need to call So and So! :001_smile:

 

I'd find out more and see if you could preview the things they'll show or something like that. I'd be uncomfortable with what might pop up in the discussions and would want to know how they plan on handling it if the discussion gets too deep.

 

I was shown a movie in high school about a woman with mental illnesses. In the movie, it depicted the woman being abused when she was a child. One of my classmates jumped up, knocked over his chair, and fled from the room during that scene. I still feel sick to my stomach thinking about him. Was he abused? What was going on? Did he just have an upset stomach? The teacher did nothing. She just sat there. I wished she'd have followed him and checked on him. So, I'd want to know, how will they handle it if someone has an explosive or emotional response to something brought up in the discussion?

Edited November 11, 2010 by Garga

[Heatherwith4]

I'd want more information as well.

[NanceXToo]

Thanks... :)

 

I emailed them and expressed my thoughts/concerns/questions etc, so we will see what they say!

 

I do agree that issues like these are important to address to some extent- I just want to make sure they will be dressed in a developmentally appropriate manner! Especially some of the more sensitive ones like various types of abuse, which can be much more disturbing to and confusing for a kid than, say, "peer pressure" or "high school cliques."

[ktgrok]

The first thing I thought of was the Law and Order SVU episode about a special needs young lady, about your daughters age, that was kept from participating in a similar program by her mother. Her mother wanted to shelter her from it. The girl ended up being sexually abused and didn't even know it was abuse as no one had talked to her about such things. Now I am NOT saying you shelter your daughter to that extent, but it does add another dimension to it. If you don't want her to participate i hope you approach these issues in some way in your home.

[RanchGirl]

I think you are right to pursue it further. I can see them saying "here is what we plan to present, here's why we believe it is important, and here are the materials you can preview and decide if your dd will participate." But open circle discussions...I would not care for that. For one thing, they will have no control over what other kids share, and is it their place to psycho-analyze your child? I would be greatly concerned.

[Unicorn.]

I would ask for more information. It could be that considering the disabilities at the school that it is developmentally appropriate. But if the school has a range of developmental levels, they need to be sure that they divide the kids accordingly and only show things that are appropriate to their emotional as well as cognitive level.

 

I don't think you're overreacting to be worried, but I also see a need to address these things. If she doesn't know what to do, she can become a victim so easily.

 

:iagree:

[Ellie]

Oh, yeah, I'd be worried. And I'd be finding out how to opt-out my dc.

[Laura Corin]

I can understand your concerns. The flip-side of this is to worry what would happen if she were not introduced to/warned about all these issues, given that she looks like a late teen and will come across other late teens. Of course, that is something that you can do at home, but the school may have the right idea in bringing these things to the fore. I would ask for more information.

 

Laura

[NanceXToo]

Here is the response I received to my email:

 

Thank you for your inquiry----All secondary students attend the circle discussions on a weekly basis. Circles are a great forum for students of different levels to participate in discussions. Each student has the same opportunity to participate in the discussion and has input on future topics. Discussion topics in the circle activities are designed to introduce students to one another and involve school topics. We have used such topics as what is your favorite sport, tell about your favorite vacation, etc.

We have also spent a large portion of our time discussing topics such as bullying and related topics. Depending on the input and participation of the students in the circles, the discussions can lead into the abuse issues mentioned in the letter. Each circle is moderated by a teacher, social worker, or member of the administration who is trained in using circles for effective communication. There are also at least three other staff members in each circle. I can assure you that the staff members present have the best interest of the students in mind and will not allow any conversation that may harm the students in any way.

I have included the website for Restorative Practice that might be helpful, as well as our agenda for Circles tomorrow.

 

Secondary Circle November 12, 2010 Agenda

Moderators can choose to elaborate on topics that may come up during circles.

1. Introductory go around. Give your name, classroom, and favorite food (or use another brief topic).

2. Talk about how your week was, one good thing that happened, one not so good thing that happened. If you could, would you change anything?

3. If you won the lottery, what is the first thing you would do?

4. If time permits, touch on bullying in school. There has been a story of a high school freshman on the local news who killed himself due to bullying. Stress what to do if you are being bullied.

5. Ask for feedback on last week’s team building activities.

6. Closing go around. Any quick question that encourages participation will work.

 

---

 

...Thoughts...?

[Murphy101]

No.

 

Might be harmless, but the problem is that it is so vague that it could mean anything. Their good intentions don't mean diddly to me. Sorry, but that's a cop out to cover their bum just in case there is a future major foul up.

 

I think it really depends on the realistic goals for you dd.

 

Will she ever be able to hold a job outside the home? If so, she does need to know boundaries, not just for sexual harrassment/abuse reasons, but for work relations in general.

 

If you wouldn't feel comfortable with it being discussed with or around your second grader, then it sounds to ME like that is your answer for this situation bc for most intent and purpose, anything beyond that is either beyond your dd's comprehension or would completely freak her out.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Here is the response I received to my email:

 

Thank you for your inquiry----All secondary students attend the circle discussions on a weekly basis. Circles are a great forum for students of different levels to participate in discussions. Each student has the same opportunity to participate in the discussion and has input on future topics. Discussion topics in the circle activities are designed to introduce students to one another and involve school topics. We have used such topics as what is your favorite sport, tell about your favorite vacation, etc.

We have also spent a large portion of our time discussing topics such as bullying and related topics. Depending on the input and participation of the students in the circles, the discussions can lead into the abuse issues mentioned in the letter. Each circle is moderated by a teacher, social worker, or member of the administration who is trained in using circles for effective communication. There are also at least three other staff members in each circle. I can assure you that the staff members present have the best interest of the students in mind and will not allow any conversation that may harm the students in any way.

I have included the website for Restorative Practice that might be helpful, as well as our agenda for Circles tomorrow.

 

Secondary Circle November 12, 2010 Agenda

Moderators can choose to elaborate on topics that may come up during circles.

1. Introductory go around. Give your name, classroom, and favorite food (or use another brief topic).

2. Talk about how your week was, one good thing that happened, one not so good thing that happened. If you could, would you change anything?

3. If you won the lottery, what is the first thing you would do?

4. If time permits, touch on bullying in school. There has been a story of a high school freshman on the local news who killed himself due to bullying. Stress what to do if you are being bullied.

5. Ask for feedback on last week’s team building activities.

6. Closing go around. Any quick question that encourages participation will work.

 

---

 

...Thoughts...?

 

My thoughts are that this is one-size-fits-all in format but could be ok depending on the individual moderators. The question I have is are all the kids in the group at the same level developmentally? If not, stuff that is not appropriate for all students is easily introduced as they go around the circle. The next question I have is that seeing as your dd is developmentally at about a 2nd grade level - addressing bullying as a subject is fine, addressing bullying leading to suicide is not.

[2_girls_mommy]

On the one hand I think it gives the kids a chance to get to know one another and to appreciate people that are different than they are. I think small groups are good for this kind of thing. But I agree, that talking about bullying that leads to suicide might not be a good thing for a child at an emotional elementary age.

 

The letter sounds vague. It could mean that they are bringing up bullying in light of the fact that there was a suicide recently and not necessarily that they are going to discuss it. But it would be probably developmentally on target for older kids to talk about suicide. In that regard they might bring it up in the discussion. I would want to be clear on that, and explain why. I would keep up the dialogue to get updates on what will be discussed each week. It could be a beneficial thing for your child to talk with the other kids, as long as it is talking about their "favorite foods" and other fun topics.

[Tap]

I guess my question is more of a question for any child mental health practitioners on this board.

 

Is the use of group therapy commonly used in the 1st-3th grade age group? Is this an appropriate format for that developmental age? If there are concerns about this method, what are they? What other options are there available to accomplish this same goal, that lessen these concerns? Are the topics ones that would be discussed in a group format at this age?

 

I am assuming that not only is your daughter at an early elementary developmental age, but that others would be as well. They are put in a high school situation based on calendar age, not developmental. Due to this, they do need to know how to handle 'high school' situations now, while they are there, as well as prep for when they go into the 'real' world. Whether that means riding a bus to a job, or just going to the grocery store or movie on their own, they need to know how and when to say 'no' and how to get the attention of someone to help them. It sounds like the information is timely, but the format the information arrives in and the information given needs to be monitored, BEFORE it is given, not during a group situation where you are left dealing with it after the fact.

 

I especially don't like that the 'if there is time' notation. To me, you don't just open up these topics, and then say "oooh, were out of time for today...Johnny, thanks for telling us about your experience being bullied. Lunch is next so wash your hands...." If they are going to open up these cans of worms...they **** well be prepared to handle any information that comes out of the mouths of these kids. I don't see the emotional state of kids who are md to be the most stable to be messing with in a casual situation.

 

I have no problem with premeditated information to be given to the kids. I do think it should be outlined to the parents ahead of time. I do not (!) think it should be an afterthought in circle time, encouraging sharing among the group.

[NanceXToo]

I just want you to know that I appreciate all of your thoughts and feedback and questions- I used some of them in my initial email to them, and I used some of them again now in my follow up email, and I'll see what he says about some of those things!

[bettyandbob]

I have a developmentally handicapped child. He's 9. He's not in classes where these issues are covered at this time. However, by high school age and by age 18 I believe I would let him participate. I would take the time to review the materials used by the school and follow up at home, but I'd let him participate. At 18, there are 3 years left in which the school system is providing educational/life skills/career training services. That's not much time. At age 21-22, I hope I don't have to keep my ds home all day. I hope he has the skills for job whether competitive, coached transition, or sheltered workshop. As a result, whether I think it's developmentally appropriate or not I have to face reality that at that age in a work environment of some type he may be exposed to bullying or sexual situations. I want him to recognize them and know what to do (at the very least be able to recognize the situation is wrong and tell me). Since he is developmentally delayed learning anything takes longer and needs more repetition. So, at 18 there's just not much time left.

 

Anyway, my dc is not your dc and I don't have 18yo yet, but that's what I think now.

[NanceXToo]

I have a developmentally handicapped child. He's 9. He's not in classes where these issues are covered at this time. However, by high school age and by age 18 I believe I would let him participate.

 

But what if, developmentally, he was still 9? or 8? Or 7?

 

I would take the time to review the materials used by the school and follow up at home, but I'd let him participate.

Yes, assuming the school would let me review their multimedia materials- and I don't know that they will- but I'm more worried about what might come out at "circle time" if we're talking about a wide range of development (not age). If everyone is put in this "circle" because they are secondary students, but it's a special needs school, and some of those secondary students are developmentally more in line with elementary students, I'm worried about how they will handle the fact that not all of them will be ready or able to internalize and process and understand and deal with sensitive issues like sexual abuse and suicide that others are, you know what I mean? I can't know what will come out of those kids' mouths at "circle time" and I can't preview it.

 

At 18, there are 3 years left in which the school system is providing educational/life skills/career training services. That's not much time. At age 21-22, I hope I don't have to keep my ds home all day. I hope he has the skills for job whether competitive, coached transition, or sheltered workshop. As a result, whether I think it's developmentally appropriate or not I have to face reality that at that age in a work environment of some type he may be exposed to bullying or sexual situations.

Yes, I understand this, although I would HOPE that my daughter will continue to be pretty well supervised even at 21- she will be going into one of those sheltered workshop type places in a small setting close to home and it IS supervised... I do know that maybe they won't all be supervised as closely as I might hope at ALL times- so of course she should know what to do if somebody tries to inappropriately touch her or bully her or whatever, I don't want her TOTALLY in a bubble- but neither do I want her hearing graphic details of sexual abuse or suicide or some such, because I don't think THAT is necessary in order to teach her what she needs to know.

 

Anyway, I really DO appreciate your thoughts and I actually DO agree to some extent (even if it doesn't sound like it lol)... I'm just having some concerns and mixed feelings, I guess.

Edited November 12, 2010 by NanceXToo
edited for typos

[bettyandbob]

But what if, developmentally, he was still 9? or 8? Or 7?

 

My thoughts would still stand. Honestly, if my ds is deemed developmentally 9, I think that would be great. I can't predict if he'll get there. But that doesn't matter, because he could still encounter all those things mentioned in your circle time as an adult with intellectual disabilities. Certainly typically developing 7, 8, and 9 yo can be taught to recognize bullying and sexual misconduct. I covered much of this stuff with my dc who do not have intellectual disabilities. I thought it was an important safety issue. My dc were learning do and go places independently and I felt I needed them to recognize a bad situation.

 

My current answer is still the same for some one developmentally 4, 5, or 6. Because I'm expected my dc to be out in the big world. He's my youngest and my dh is getting letters from AARP. The reality is ds will out live us and I need to try to help him learn to recognize and deal with bad stuff. It is part of helping him to be able to live as independently as possible (to live without me, because the reality is he will at some live without me).

[Jean in Newcastle]

But what if, developmentally, he was still 9? or 8? Or 7?

 

My thoughts would still stand. Honestly, if my ds is deemed developmentally 9, I think that would be great. I can't predict if he'll get there. But that doesn't matter, because he could still encounter all those things mentioned in your circle time as an adult with intellectual disabilities. Certainly typically developing 7, 8, and 9 yo can be taught to recognize bullying and sexual misconduct. I covered much of this stuff with my dc who do not have intellectual disabilities. I thought it was an important safety issue. My dc were learning do and go places independently and I felt I needed them to recognize a bad situation.

 

My current answer is still the same for some one developmentally 4, 5, or 6. Because I'm expected my dc to be out in the big world. He's my youngest and my dh is getting letters from AARP. The reality is ds will out live us and I need to try to help him learn to recognize and deal with bad stuff. It is part of helping him to be able to live as independently as possible (to live without me, because the reality is he will at some live without me).

 

Yes, but the language and the descriptions used with someone who is developmentally 8 or 9 is quite different than the language and the descriptions that should be used with someone who is developmentally 18. And while your objectives would be somewhat the same, the level of detail might be different. At the same time, I, as a professional trained to work with special needs, would approach a child who is both developmentally and chronologically age 9 differently than a person who is developmentally 9 but chronologically age 18 because they are going to face different challenges because of their chronological age.

 

Case in point. I worked extensively with a young woman (18) who had Down's Syndrome. She was developmentally around 8 or 9. She talked a lot about wanting a baby. At a chronological age of 18, she physically could have had a baby. But developmentally she thought of that baby as a big doll that interacted with her. Her mother talked to her and asked me to talk to her about the ramifications of having a baby. I would not have had that talk probably with most kids who were 8 or 9 but it was important to have that talk at her age. At the same time, the talk we had was light-years different than the one I would have had with an 18 year old who was developmentally on target.

[NanceXToo]

Yes, but the language and the descriptions used with someone who is developmentally 8 or 9 is quite different than the language and the descriptions that should be used with someone who is developmentally 18. And while your objectives would be somewhat the same, the level of detail might be different.

 

Yes, this is what I mean.

[LNC]

Absolutely not. My son is a 7th grade special ed student in a public school. He is supposed to alternate health and pe by semester. Health is about s-- ed this year. His teacher's response was to have him go to pe again instead of health, "let's not and say we did". Although, I don't think anyone really cares if the special ed class students opt out.

 

From a special needs school your child attends?

 

"This school year we are continuing the Restorative Practice approach when dealing with issues at (school). Part of the approach includes engaging students in a weekly circle discussion. During this circle time, students are encouraged to participate in discussing a chosen topic. At times, the discussion topics may include, but are not limited to, bullying, high school cliques, gender issues, alcohol and drug use and abuse, physical/sexual/mental abuse. Periodically, we will be utilizing multimedia (videos/DVD/CDs) to show scenarios depicting these sensitive issues."

 

There's more but that's the gist of it.

 

My daughter is 18... but not a "normal" 18. This is a special education/special needs/life skills type of setting. She does work at like a second grade level. Socially, emotionally, mentally, developmentally etc, she's nowhere near her "real" age.

 

Without getting to preview exactly what they'll be showing on these videos, without knowing what direction they will take talks about things like sexual, physical and mental abuse (which can be disturbing to say the least, and I would not want it to be more than my daughter could really understand and/or emotionally handle), I am feeling somewhat uncomfortable with this.

 

This isn't a permission slip or anything, it's just an FYI kind of letter and at the end it says "If you need more information or have any questions, please contact so and so."

 

What would you think....? Am I over-reacting a bit to worry some about this?