DH and I disagree about math, help!

[hsmom27]

Our newly turned 8yo is rapidly working through Singapore 5. We use the text, workbook, some of the test book, IPs and CWP. He does really well, but he doesn't like math. My original plan was to work through SM 6, a pre-algebra and then move onto AOPS Intro to Algebra. But at the rate he's working we'll be there at 10. It just seems like rushing to me. I was thinking about taking a year to just have fun with LoF books.

 

DH disagrees. He is also good in math and hated it. He claims it's because he was always well ahead and bored in school.

 

So I say slow it down and try and get DS more engaged, and DH says just keep going until he needs to slow down. What do all you experienced homeschooling parents say? Thanks.

[PeterPan]

LoF *is* the pre-algebra. You're both right. :)

[Rosie_0801]

It's not rushing if that's the pace he works at naturally, and he retains the information. Since you don't want him starting algebra at 10, why not work on Singapore, stop to review that topic with LOF, then head back to Singapore. That seems to be a good compromise and others here do that.

 

Rosie

[rootsnwings]

We have LoF fractions on the way and will use it alnongside the latter half of 4A and into 4B. I plan on using LOF Decimals & Percents with 4B/5A. We also supplement with MEP. I try not to make it *more* work for my ds, or he would hate math. We do the text in the morning, MEP after lunch & the wkbk exercise as "homework" or just at the end of his lessons. I'm going to give the optin of MEP or LoF after lunch and see where that takes us. ;) I agree about not going too quickly but you also want him to feel challenged or he is going to be bored. If you haven't checked out MEP math, definately try it with him! My ds (& Ii!!) love the interactive workbook pages and they tend to run about a year ahead of SM, so my ds using SM 4A is working on MEP 3B.

 

HTH! :)

[8filltheheart]

Our newly turned 8yo is rapidly working through Singapore 5. We use the text, workbook, some of the test book, IPs and CWP. He does really well, but he doesn't like math. My original plan was to work through SM 6, a pre-algebra and then move onto AOPS Intro to Algebra. But at the rate he's working we'll be there at 10. It just seems like rushing to me. I was thinking about taking a year to just have fun with LoF books.

 

DH disagrees. He is also good in math and hated it. He claims it's because he was always well ahead and bored in school.

 

So I say slow it down and try and get DS more engaged, and DH says just keep going until he needs to slow down. What do all you experienced homeschooling parents say? Thanks.

 

It is not unheard of for advanced kids to do alg at 10. My 14 yo did just that. ;)

 

If you are uncomfortable with that decision, you could use the AoPS problem solving books or intro to prob or number theory alongside an "easier" alg program for a yr and then progress to AoPS's algebra. That is not going "slower", but wide and deep in some other topics than just alg (there is a world of math out there beyond the traditional high school math sequence........something I never cared about until my own little math wizard!! :tongue_smilie:)

[freerange]

It is not unheard of for advanced kids to do alg at 10. My 14 yo did just that. ;)

 

If you are uncomfortable with that decision, you could use the AoPS problem solving books or intro to prob or number theory alongside an "easier" alg program for a yr and then progress to AoPS's algebra. That is not going "slower", but wide and deep in some other topics than just alg (there is a world of math out there beyond the traditional high school math sequence........something I never cared about until my own little math wizard!! :tongue_smilie:)

:iagree: Wide & deep is the way to go if you want to avoid getting too far 'ahead' We're using Math Mammoth, LoF, Zaccaro, Theoni Pappas,....

 

With DS, I was advised to let him, "go as far & as fast as he can," but with hindsight I think he would have been better served by going outside the regular scope of study whilst still moving ahead.

 

On the other hand, you certainly don't want to hold him back & bore him,or to offer so little challenge that when he finally does encounter something difficult to learn he doesn't have the skills to tackle it.

 

Perhaps you could combine the approaches favoured by yourself & your DH - use the texts you'd originally planned, alongside/alternating LOF & other fun materials.

[regentrude]

If your son enjoys doing his math, is engaged in the material, retains it well - then just go ahead at whatever pace he can manage.

My 11 y/o is doing AoPS Intro to Algebra right now.

 

If your son feels pushed, feels the pace is too fast, does not enjoy math - then slow down and do something else, explore math topics "off the beaten path".

 

For a child who is mathematically gifted, a cute "fun" book can be torture- he may have more fun with hard, challenging bare bones math. AoPS is a good choice because it covers a lot more than the traditional textbooks, and the author makes it fun. You can always use the "extra" time you gained by later covering topics outside the traditional sequence, such as number theory.

[Snickerdoodle]

You may want to post this question in the accelerated learner forum.

 

That said, you can do a search of nmoira's posts. She has great ideas for going off the beaten path with regard to math.

 

Here is one

[sagira]

What is AOPS? Just curious.

[Luckymama]

For a child who is mathematically gifted, a cute "fun" book can be torture- he may have more fun with hard, challenging bare bones math. AoPS is a good choice because it covers a lot more than the traditional textbooks, and the author makes it fun. You can always use the "extra" time you gained by later covering topics outside the traditional sequence, such as number theory.

 

I have a math-loving kid. Right now dd and I are doing a quick review/extension of all pre-algebra topics, plugging up holes in her knowledge. I showed her samples of various books this summer and she just rolled her eyes at all the LoF books. In contrast, she finds the AoPS and various "competition" books to be exciting!

 

Kids are different. It can be a challenge to find what works best for each individual.

[brownie]

I bought a math olympiad book for my 2nd and 4th graders this year. Last year as a 1st grader my son went through Singapore 2 and 3 when I brought him home from ps, so some weeks when we were between books I would assign him to work on chess, do logic problems, work with tanagrams, do sudoku, practice games like Set and Blink on his own, etc...

brownie

[chai]

I was another frustrated math-loving child who was held back from algebra. Don't do it! Algebra is fun! There are so many rabbit trails that you can take once you get there. Once your son has his facts down, there is no reason to hold him back.

[Mandy in TN]

So I say slow it down and try and get DS more engaged, and DH says just keep going until he needs to slow down. What do all you experienced homeschooling parents say? Thanks.

Why not try to get DS more engaged and keep going until he needs to slow down?

 

That said, you can do a search of nmoira's posts. She has great ideas for going off the beaten path with regard to math.

hmm, I was going to suggest that same thing.

 

One of my favorie nmoira links:

The Calculus Trap

 

HTH-

Mandy

[nmoira]

Reposted:

 

Things we've used in our great algebra put-off:

 

LoF: Fractions, Decimals & Percents and Pre-Algebra 1 (and soon 2)

Venn Perplexors A-D (we use them without the pre-drawn charts)

Can You Count in Greek? (highly enjoyable)

Selected MEP units, including codes and ciphers

It's Alive, and It's Alive and Kicking (found a couple errors in solutions)

Logic Countdown, Logic Liftoff, Orbiting with Logic

The Cryptoclub

Becoming a Problem Solving Genius

Challenge Math

Brain Maths (puzzles, from SingaporeMath.com, we found a few errors in the solutions for Book 1, many for Book 2)

Mathematics 6 (Russian Math, selected sections and problems; this text is a thing of beauty)

CWP 5 and 6 (slowly working through the series)

Alien Math (working four operations in different number bases)

Piece of Pi (meh)

Patty Paper Geometry (I highly recommend this before high school geometry)

 

Cryptoclub was a hoot. It takes awhile to get into the heavier math, but it was worth it :) The workbook is a free download from the linked page, and the publisher will send you the answer key on request. A very little basic algebra is required (e.g. solving systems of equations with two variables). Here are some more short, free codes & ciphers units from CIMT (the MEP folks).

[talexand]

Regardless of what you pick, I would work on the love of math. You say your husband didn't like math either, how about you? Is there anyone who just loves math in your household? The reason I ask is that its the excitement and fun with math that makes my kids love it. They do like doing their assignments. Math comes easy and they like being successful at it. But what they really love is the conversations that start with, "Mom, teach me something I don't know about math." I've spent hours talking multiplication with my 6 year old and binary numbers with an 8 year old. My 11 year old is doing algebra and he started informally when he was 9 or 10. We also do kryptos and other puzzles. (http://hubpages.com/hub/Math-Education-Games-Krypto-Activities-For-the-Classroom-or-Homeschool) I do them too.

 

None of this usually happens during math time. That is when they do their assignment. Logic puzzles are often a surprise assignment that they love. Other puzzles and math discussions happen in the car, at the dinner table, before bed, etc. Other people (aunt, grandparents, friends) bring them fun math activities, puzzles, facts, too, once they see that the kids eat this stuff up.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

What is AOPS? Just curious.

 

 

Art of Problem Solving

[kiana]

Is there a reason that you think slowing it down will make him more engaged?

[nmoira]

Start him LOF pre-algebra. It is a complete program, fun, and won't slow him down. Sounds like a compromise to me.

:iagree:

 

Though moving into pre-algebra doesn't mean you have to follow up with algebra. Math progression needn't be straight line; however, it's much easier to park at a middle school level than K-6 because there are so many more interesting diversions at that level.

 

DD the Elder went into LoF last year after completing the first unit of Primary Maths 4A, and she never looked back. I'm a big fan of Singapore, but she was bored. After some resistance, I had something of a lightbulb moment: challenging out-of-the-box material at a lower conceptual level (i.e. using IP in lieu of texts) is not necessarily engaging. Sometimes we crave something NEW. We've just about exhausted the potential for engaging middle school level diversions, and will likely be moving on to Algebra within a few months. I'd still like to wait until next September (a few months shy of 10), but I'll let DD decide. I'm planning on using a combination of LoF and AofPS.

[Spy Car]

Is there a reason that you think slowing it down will make him more engaged?

 

I think what those who are suggesting not racing through to calculus are arguing for is not so much to "slow down" but to go deeper and wider and to use math materials that really engage critical thinking and encourage mathematical reasoning, as the materials listed by Moira and others do just that.

 

When a child REALLY understands what they are doing, and is challenged to think in ways beyond the often superficial track we see in both PS and many homeschool programs, then we encourage children think like young mathematicians. This is a far better result IMO than a narrow-focus that sees them finish calculus early, but neglects width and breadth.

 

Bill

[kiana]

I think what those who are suggesting not racing through to calculus are arguing for is not so much to "slow down" but to go deeper and wider and to use math materials that really engage critical thinking and encourage mathematical reasoning, as the materials listed by Moira and others do just that.

 

When a child REALLY understands what they are doing, and is challenged to think in ways beyond the often superficial track we see in both PS and many homeschool programs, then we encourage children think like young mathematicians. This is a far better result IMO than a narrow-focus that sees them finish calculus early, but neglects width and breadth.

 

Bill

 

Oh sure, I agree with you 100% here. I think going beyond the superficial track is wonderful. I just don't think that slowing down just for the sake of slowing down or because of the child's age is good. I also think that the goal of enrichment should be to enrich the child's experience in mathematics and not solely to slow them down.

[Julie of KY]

I'd "slow down" only if it is difficult and needs more time to process. I think it would be great to chase rabbit trails, do some "fun" math logic or just keep on going. Life of Fred is a fun way to learn some new things without being too bogged down.

The beginning of AoPS Algebra has some tough pre-algebra topics in the first chapter. Be prepared to go slowly if they are new and then speed up as tolerated. We are currently doing AoPS Algebra and Counting alongside each other. When we get to the review problems of Algebra, my son works on them for awhile while moving ahead in the AoPS Counting book and then moves on in algebra when at the end of a Counting chapter.

[onaclairadeluna]

My son was the same way.

 

The only way to slow a bright kid down is to give him hard problems. AOPS does this brilliantly.

 

You don't have to do algebra 1st. Or at least you don't have to do the whole book. The first few chapters are pre algebra (but really hard pre algebra) and that is enough for your child to be able to dive into Number Theory and Probability and counting.

 

My son was at about the same time table as yours and at 12 he is now working through Geometry after finishing the other 3 books. He also goes back and reviews (on his own, not prompted by me). He also did a few of the "elements of mathematics books" from eimacs but he did those as "summer fun math".

 

I can't sing the praises of AOPS enough. He grabs his books every day and heads outside cheerfully and works on his own for an hour or sometimes two. He cheers and sometimes shrieks in frustration but he is so completely engrossed in his work and it is indeed a labor of love.

 

I would only wait if you think it will be too hard or frustrating but if you want your child to slow down AOPS is the way to go.

[hsmom27]

DS is working completely at his own pace. I just tell him to do however much he feels like doing each day. I really like the look of nmoira's list, and I think I'll add in some of her recommendations.

 

I'm also going to go ahead and drop SM's tests and workbook. I think it's too much repetition that's causing DS's math apathy. I'm definitely going to go for wide and deep approach.

 

Thanks everyone!

[EmilyGF]

I was an accelerated math person and loved it - but I suffered from lack of depth.

 

http://www.ecae.net/category/math-blog/ has some great points about acceleration in math - even outside the classroom setting. Read Tony Gardiner's articles about acceleration vs. enrichment. Then you two can make a better informed decision!

 

Emily

[joannqn]

I agree with those that recommend AoPS. DS8 is working through MUS Algebra 1 now. I decided to let him soar through algebra and then slow down by using all 8 of AoPS's books. I'll probably let him read through Life of Fred for fun, too. If he gets through all of that before graduation, there's always college classes.

[Testimony]

I agree with you that you could slow down a little, but I agree with your husband that you should speed him. If he enjoys going the programs, let him. Just help him along by adding more depth to his lessons so he can develop stronger math skills. Teaching him how to problem solve more, you should definitely go that route. I was advance in math, but I was never given more depth to my mathematics. So, the compromise would be to allow him to advance while having him to Challenging Word Problems and Art of Problem Solving (AOPS-someone wanted to know what that was) and those wonderful sites NMoira gave. I am just finding these programs and adding them to my children's curriculum. It is exciting!

 

Blessing in your homeschooling journey!:001_smile:

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[radiobrain]

You have gotten some wonderful advice here.

 

I agree with changing it up a bit, doing other interesting things.

 

I wanted to put this out here. I heard this at my first HS convention, when my kids were much smaller... but it stuck with me. It happened to come from the mouth of Tom Clark, I forgot the name of his curriculum.. videotext interactive? Anyway, it doesn't particularly interest me, but he was great to listen to. He basically said this.... There is no such thing as middle school math. After you learn all the operations, and fractions, decimals and percents...MOVE ON. Middle school math is a holding pattern for the school system where they hope to get all the kids to one place, however it usually backfires by having those that are good at math stagnate and start to lose whatever interest they might have had. As HSers you can move at whatever pace you want.

 

That has always stuck with me. it made so much sense.

 

So, yes, both you and your husband are right. You can chug along and still slow down by adding in other interesting math subjects. There is a lot of great 'middle school math' curriculum out there. Zaccaro, Pappas, LoF, everything that Moira mentioned.

 

Good luck!