Claire Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I was very sympathetic at first, but soon they began to strike me as "cookie cutter" people. They seemed unable to think or articulate anything individual. They not only dressed alike and did their hair alike, they spoke alike. Even the intonations in their voices were alike. Dh thinks this is a result of brainwashing. Other impressions? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 It was like the Stepford Wives... very creepy. But, they have been taught that the outside world is creepy, so whose to say. I really feel for the young girls and boys who have little say in the direction their lives will take. Those that do leave, I've heard, have little skills to help them make it in the outside world. Just seems to be a major mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I was very sympathetic at first, but soon they began to strike me as "cookie cutter" people. They seemed unable to think or articulate anything individual. They not only dressed alike and did their hair alike, they spoke alike. Even the intonations in their voices were alike. Dh thinks this is a result of brainwashing. Other impressions? Thoughts? :iagree: I had the same impression as you. It was as if they had no personality, which I found to be creepy too. Blessings, Lucinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycoffeechic Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I know, I felt sorry for them at first, but the more they kept talking, the more I was changing my mind. Especially the one who was telling about the meaning of Zion, she REALLY wierded me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahli Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I hope that they will be able to rehabilitate some of the mothers so they can be reunited with their children. I know it's messed up, but I still pity them being separated. I heard on NPR that they had one 16 year old who was about to give birth for the FOURTH time!!! Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Just found this article on the CNN website. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessMcG Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Just found this article on the CNN website. Wow! From aforementioned article..."The children shunned processed food, white bread and sodas, and essentially subsisted on yogurt, fruit and lots of almonds, she said." Looks like they were learning something right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourmother Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I didn't see Larry King, but I have seen and heard some of these mothers on other media outlets. They are usually crying over the injustice they have suffered or how much they miss their kids. Try as I might, I just can't sympathize with them. I keep wondering if they cry like that when their 12 and 13 year old daughters are turned over to 40, 50, and 60 year old men. These same dirty old men who wilfully throw their teenaged sons into the street in order to maintain their own grip on the land, money and women. Who weeps for those boys? I understand about brainwashing and all, but I just believe that these things should get under any mother's skin. These women share a responsibility for what happened and what will happen to those poor children IMNSHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I didn't see Larry King, . This is a sad and sorry thread hijack, one of those awful instances where the poster has nothing to add to the conversation but just puts their own opinion out there anyway...... You have been warned. I just want to say "Fourmother, I have just been to your blog and literally Laughed Out Loud. You have a way of making the everyday mundane stuff so very funny. I now return this thread back to its intended subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I didn't see Larry King, but I have seen and heard some of these mothers on other media outlets. They are usually crying over the injustice they have suffered or how much they miss their kids. Try as I might, I just can't sympathize with them. I keep wondering if they cry like that when their 12 and 13 year old daughters are turned over to 40, 50, and 60 year old men. These same dirty old men who wilfully throw their teenaged sons into the street in order to maintain their own grip on the land, money and women. Who weeps for those boys? I understand about brainwashing and all, but I just believe that these things should get under any mother's skin. These women share a responsibility for what happened and what will happen to those poor children IMNSHO. I absolutely agree. And the accounts that have trickled out about the children either not knowing their birthdays and the women giving conflicting stories about whose children are who is very disturbing. Very disturbing. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Actually, I thought Fourmother added substantially to the thread. I had forgotten about "the lost boys". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 but where are the men? Have they been arrested? Why aren't they standing up and coming to the defence of the women?? This is what i wonder as well. It seems very contrived and odd. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 One of the shows reported that when a woman gives birth, the child is taken for a group of women to raise. You wonder, if this is true, if they even know which are their biological children. I gather these men are very much in control, but the women also play a major rule in supporting this. Fourmother is spot on about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 This is a sad and sorry thread hijack, one of those awful instances where the poster has nothing to add to the conversation but just puts their own opinion out there anyway...... You have been warned. I just want to say "Fourmother, I have just been to your blog and literally Laughed Out Loud. You have a way of making the everyday mundane stuff so very funny. I now return this thread back to its intended subject matter. When I started reading your post, I thought you meant Fourmother's post was a sad and sorry thread hijack, and I couldn't figure out why you were blasting her like that. The only thing I could figure out was that she'd read an article instead of seeing Larry King, but people go out on thread tangents all the time. I finally finished reading your post and figured out that your post is the hijack. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourmother Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 When I started reading your post, I thought you meant Fourmother's post was a sad and sorry thread hijack, and I couldn't figure out why you were blasting her like that. The only thing I could figure out was that she'd read an article instead of seeing Larry King, but people go out on thread tangents all the time. I finally finished reading your post and figured out that your post is the hijack. :lol: Me, too! I thought I was in trouble for a second there. Thanks for the compliment, Kelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Oh, man, I missed your meaning COMPLETELY! :ack2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a Jen in Mississippi Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Oh, man, I missed your meaning COMPLETELY! So did I!! But now I see clearly what she meant!:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Me, too! I thought I was in trouble for a second there. Thanks for the compliment, Kelli. Oh no! That'll teach me to be a smart aleck!! Okay, how about this...Fourmother, your blog is hysterical!! That's what I wanted to say!! Okay, everyone back to the real discussion!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Oh no! That'll teach me to be a smart aleck!! Okay, how about this...Fourmother, your blog is hysterical!! That's what I wanted to say!! Okay, everyone back to the real discussion!! I think your hijack was more interesting. This subject is very depressing. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I didn't see Larry King, but I have seen and heard some of these mothers on other media outlets. They are usually crying over the injustice they have suffered or how much they miss their kids. Try as I might, I just can't sympathize with them. I keep wondering if they cry like that when their 12 and 13 year old daughters are turned over to 40, 50, and 60 year old men. These same dirty old men who wilfully throw their teenaged sons into the street in order to maintain their own grip on the land, money and women. Who weeps for those boys? I understand about brainwashing and all, but I just believe that these things should get under any mother's skin. These women share a responsibility for what happened and what will happen to those poor children IMNSHO. Although I suppose the mothers do share a responsibility for what happened, they were themselves victims of the same kind of abuse, and probably their mothers were, as well. Not one of them has any idea that her life is not normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenstet Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 When asked about who or where the husbands where they replied "the focus here is on the children" Ya, no kidding. The focus isn't on you getting the children BACK, it is on finding out what you have been doing to them. I also found it ironic that they were willing to use the media for their purpose. I do feel for them as mothers and for the children but how do you go about fixing any of this. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Why do they only have one dress pattern in the place? Geez, a denim jumper would be sweet relief. And never let me join a cult the requires that bang sweep, I'd look like Jan Brady in her afro wig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I didn't see Larry King, but I have seen and heard some of these mothers on other media outlets. They are usually crying over the injustice they have suffered or how much they miss their kids. Try as I might, I just can't sympathize with them. I keep wondering if they cry like that when their 12 and 13 year old daughters are turned over to 40, 50, and 60 year old men. These same dirty old men who wilfully throw their teenaged sons into the street in order to maintain their own grip on the land, money and women. Who weeps for those boys? I understand about brainwashing and all, but I just believe that these things should get under any mother's skin. These women share a responsibility for what happened and what will happen to those poor children IMNSHO. Where can I find more information about what happens to the sons that are thrown out? It reminds me of pack animals when the young males get run off by the male packleader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycoffeechic Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 They are showing it on Nancy Grace right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourmother Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I understand that the women are victims. Yes, they have absolutely been manipulated and abused. The fact that the men who run everything have chosen to put the mothers in front of the cameras is a complete manipulation of both the women and the public. They are counting on us being moved by the tears and outraged by an "out of control government." What a bunch of cowards! They are supposed to be MEN, the heads of their families, community and faith. But now that the $#!% is hitting the fan these men are hiding behind their women's long skirts. If they are so confident in what they're doing let them stand up and defend themselves instead of letting the women attempt to clean up behind them. (I say attempt because there is no way to fix this mess. Children are going to be hurt no matter what.) The real and true victims in this case are the children. At some point the mothers involved stopped being victimized children and became adults, complicit in the abuse of their own children. Not all FLDS women made the same choice. Over the years some have chosen to take their children and leave, despite being taught that they would be condemned for eternity. That shows that there had to be some level of discomfort about what was going on among these mothers. ITA with Unsinkable. I hate to see Christianity twisted to satisfy the greed and lust of a tiny number of people while mistreating so many. The FLDS claim to be righteous and Godly, but they are really no better than animals. A small number of males controlling large numbers of females and territory, mating with young females (possibly their own relatives) as soon as they come into estrus, eliminating competition from younger males -- that's how herd and pack animals live. ETA: Here is a wikipedia link about the FLDS lost boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 One of the shows reported that when a woman gives birth, the child is taken for a group of women to raise. You wonder, if this is true, if they even know which are their biological children. I gather these men are very much in control, but the women also play a major rule in supporting this. Fourmother is spot on about this. Hmm... so, if this is true and they are removing the children from the mothers at birth... and if true that the sons are tossed from the group at puberty... this farmer can't help but think: This is far too much like the contemporary commercial swine model -- take the weanlings from the sow as soon as possible so she can be rebred again promptly. Without question cull all the boars. They can't be bred back to the sows anyway. Keep around the old breeding boars because they've proven their virility already. And, don't forget to get the gilts breeding as soon as they show the first signs of estrus. The younger you can breed her the better. Kind of makes me want to puke, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Fourmother, we both posted using the same analogies at the same time. How cool is that? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 Where can I find more information about what happens to the sons that are thrown out? It reminds me of pack animals when the young males get run off by the male packleader. Here are some links to online information: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html There was a documentary on tv about them sometime last year. Very, very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourmother Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Fourmother, we both posted using the same analogies at the same time. How cool is that? ;) Great minds thing alike. :lol: I'm so glad to have forums like these to vent in because I've been fuming all day! (Sure can't talk to my kids about it!) It's good to see that I'm not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I was very sympathetic at first, but soon they began to strike me as "cookie cutter" people. They seemed unable to think or articulate anything individual. They not only dressed alike and did their hair alike, they spoke alike. Even the intonations in their voices were alike. Dh thinks this is a result of brainwashing. Other impressions? Thoughts? Definately seemed like brainwashing to me and I felt really bad for them. We dont have cable/satellite but I saw some of it on other shows this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forwardbyfaith Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 This whole situation is so sad and I feel awful for the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I have to admit that last fall I was sick and laying around and I watched a Lifetime Movie about a woman who escaped from a polygamist sect. At the time I found the movie to be really interesting, but didn't know how seriously I should take it. From everything I've heard about this FLDS group, it sounds like that movie, In God's Country, was spot on. If it's rebroadcast you might want to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 If anyone is interested, you can watch the video here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Let me preface this by saying I totally get the abused mindset of fear...having said that, I can't help but think of it like this: While yes, most of these women have most likely suffered some major forms of abuse, there's got to be at least one who isn't meek and mild, if not, many women. I would hedge a bet that there are a few women in the clan who are fiercely controlling and want to preserve their "way". At some point, *someone* gave their consent to join in and then continue to keep everyone together. I would bank on it that some of these women are the abusers as well as the men. And unless I've missed something, (please correct me if I'm wrong) there still hasn't been any hard evidence other than teen pregnancies against the people. (not saying I think that's okay, but where did the gov't get the right to do all they've done so far?) THAT makes me shudder. Our government needs to follow the law and it doesn't appear that they're doing so. Whewww...my very first overtly opinionated post. Should I put on my flame retardant suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill- OK Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Fourmother's blog, that is. :-) I giggle when I think of "Just pick it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Try as I might, I just can't sympathize with them. I keep wondering if they cry like that when their 12 and 13 year old daughters are turned over to 40, 50, and 60 year old men. These same dirty old men who wilfully throw their teenaged sons into the street in order to maintain their own grip on the land, money and women. Who weeps for those boys? I understand about brainwashing and all, but I just believe that these things should get under any mother's skin. These women share a responsibility for what happened and what will happen to those poor children IMNSHO. I have to agree with you here. The whole situation is *so* very disturbing to me. Now from my own perspective as a Christian I don’t want the government telling me what I can teach my children about my faith. BUT, I am also *not* doing anything that is against any law. Forcing a child of 12 or 13 to marry and then forcing them to have babies every year is. Did you know they found a used bed in the temple for the “initiation” of virgins. I mean it is just the most disturbing kind of thing to me—probably more so because I have daughters in that age bracket. I just take offense at their whole life. That so many children are caught up in this is utterly tragic. I can only imagine the terror they must feel and it is just so so sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 sorry. had to remove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 And unless I've missed something, (please correct me if I'm wrong) there still hasn't been any hard evidence other than teen pregnancies against the people. (not saying I think that's okay, but where did the gov't get the right to do all they've done so far?) THAT makes me shudder. Our government needs to follow the law and it doesn't appear that they're doing so. I think it's going to take quite some time for hard evidence to be presented. They're still trying to figure out whose children are whose! However, the problem appears to be more than teen pregnancies. Forced marriages, for one thing. Apparently there are several 16yos who are pregnant, some not for the first time, and at least one who gave birth when she was 13yo. There are also the underaged boys who work on construction crews and then are kicked out of the compound in their teen years, left to fend for themselves without family or skills. As for laws, the state is mandated by law to remove children who are at risk of abuse. To me, it appears the officials have followed state law, but of course they have to prove this in court. From what I have seen so far, I think the state has a strong case. They are not required to have proof of abuse of each child they remove; they simply must have evidence that the child is at risk of abuse. That's what I'm seeing right now, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Oh, man, I missed your meaning COMPLETELY! :ack2: I thought she was lambasting 4mother and my mouth fell open and then slowly it clicked that she wasn't. I must remember to read the whole thing. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 Oh, and here's a news clip I hadn't seen before: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/18/ng.polygamy.crime.cnn (Be sure to watch the entire clip, as the water torture isn't described until the very end.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Let me preface this by saying I totally get the abused mindset of fear...having said that, I can't help but think of it like this: While yes, most of these women have most likely suffered some major forms of abuse, there's got to be at least one who isn't meek and mild, if not, many women. I would hedge a bet that there are a few women in the clan who are fiercely controlling and want to preserve their "way". At some point, *someone* gave their consent to join in and then continue to keep everyone together. I would bank on it that some of these women are the abusers as well as the men. And unless I've missed something, (please correct me if I'm wrong) there still hasn't been any hard evidence other than teen pregnancies against the people. (not saying I think that's okay, but where did the gov't get the right to do all they've done so far?) THAT makes me shudder. Our government needs to follow the law and it doesn't appear that they're doing so. Whewww...my very first overtly opinionated post. Should I put on my flame retardant suit? I worry about the future implications of the actions of both sides of this. The zero-tolerance policy that tends to evolve from these types of situations bothers me. I am not condoning the alleged abuse, but my radar goes off whenever I view the government strong-arming people. I am trying to reserve judgment until all the facts come out. However, I am very cynical and I feel like both sides are playing the public. I feel manipulated. Yuck. :confused: K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Fourmother, your blog is hysterical!! Okay, everyone back to the real discussion!! :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Oh, and here's a news clip I hadn't seen before: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/18/ng.polygamy.crime.cnn (Be sure to watch the entire clip, as the water torture isn't described until the very end.) If what she says is true, and I guess until proven otherwise we have no reason NOt to believe her, then I don't know how any mother could allow her children to go through that. Even if you were brought up in it. Surely your mother instinct to protect your child kicks in?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I think that for some women, like Carolyn Jessop, the maternal instinct does kick in and you eventually start planning your exit. Some women have been able to get themselves and their children out of there. But then again, there are women who are able to get themselves out of all kinds of abusive situations and others who are not. Some are actually stronger than others, some are more stubborn than others, some are prone to despair and melancholy, some enter into clinical depression. I read someplace that an alarming number of the women in the FLDS are on Prozac and other antidepressants. Just last night I was watching a program (I think it was in the CNN link that I posted above) and a former member of the FLDS said that the leaders are brilliant because they take girls when they are too young to be able to help themselves, force them into "marriage", and then get them pregnant every year. By the time she starts to realize that she is trapped she looks around at her 5 young children and realizes that she has no skills at all to support them. Maybe she doesn't have a brother on the outside whom she can call. Maybe she really, truly is terrified of leaving because she has bought the lie about "the wicked world." She knows that if she leaves no one in her family will ever speak to her again. She knows that if her husband hunts her down she'll be beaten and abused when they drag her back. I would say that it's definitely on par with slavery in that regard. Some people had the inner fortitude to run for their lives and some did not. I'm not AT ALL making excuses for these women or for the atrocities that have been committed in cults like this. I'm just trying to climb into their heads for a minute to figure out what on earth would possess a woman to sit back and allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanamom Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I think that for some women, like Carolyn Jessop, the maternal instinct does kick in and you eventually start planning your exit. Some women have been able to get themselves and their children out of there. But then again, there are women who are able to get themselves out of all kinds of abusive situations and others who are not. Some are actually stronger than others, some are more stubborn than others, some are prone to despair and melancholy, some enter into clinical depression. I read someplace that an alarming number of the women in the FLDS are on Prozac and other antidepressants. Just last night I was watching a program (I think it was in the CNN link that I posted above) and a former member of the FLDS said that the leaders are brilliant because they take girls when they are too young to be able to help themselves, force them into "marriage", and then get them pregnant every year. By the time she starts to realize that she is trapped she looks around at her 5 young children and realizes that she has no skills at all to support them. Maybe she doesn't have a brother on the outside whom she can call. Maybe she really, truly is terrified of leaving because she has bought the lie about "the wicked world." She knows that if she leaves no one in her family will ever speak to her again. She knows that if her husband hunts her down she'll be beaten and abused when they drag her back. I would say that it's definitely on par with slavery in that regard. Some people had the inner fortitude to run for their lives and some did not. I'm not AT ALL making excuses for these women or for the atrocities that have been committed in cults like this. I'm just trying to climb into their heads for a minute to figure out what on earth would possess a woman to sit back and allow this. Yes. And in addition, if they truly believe the FLDS teachings, they believe that what they are doing is the only way to heaven and eternal glory. I agree, this does not make it right. It is still abuse. BUT, mothers who are convinced that the only way their daughters will get to the highest level of heaven is by polygamous marriage... well, then they may feel they are *saving* their daughters rather than *condemning* them. Any discomfort in this life is just a test of eternal worthiness. I don't know how they could justify kicking the boys out, though. Even mainstream Mormonism has polygamy as part of the afterlife for those most worthy. (This is not meant as a slam!) Any LDS who don't know what I'm talking about... talk to your Bishop to verify. I am not getting into a religious debate or judgement. I'm just saying that if regular, normal, thinking, devout people can believe that they will be participating in polygamy in the afterlife, and strive to make sure they get there... it's not *that* unreasonable to think that the FLDS mothers truly believe that what they are doing is honoring God and securing their family's way to heaven. (I am only talking of plural marriage here, not waterboarding or any other abuse.) http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/polygamy.pentagon/index.html I found this interesting and horrifying. One thing I am not is surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apiphobic Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 It was like the Stepford Wives... very creepy. But, they have been taught that the outside world is creepy, so whose to say. I really feel for the young girls and boys who have little say in the direction their lives will take. Those that do leave, I've heard, have little skills to help them make it in the outside world. Just seems to be a major mess. Your post really made me stop and think for a second. If I just changed the cast of characters a little bit, I can actually hear someone saying this about homeschoolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/polygamy.pentagon/index.html I found this interesting and horrifying. One thing I am not is surprised. This quote made me laugh: "It was my understanding that Western Precision was paying roughly $50,000 a week into the coffers of the church," former sect member Richard Holm said. "It would have been close to $200,000 a month." duh. This quote explains why the bid was considered and awarded: "The Department of Defense awards contracts on the basis of who can most effectively meet our requirements for supplies or services at the most reasonable cost to the taxpayer," he said. "We do not consider religious affiliation or marital status when selecting vendors, but illegal activity is certainly cause for termination of a contract and perhaps even debarment, which could prevent a contractor from doing business with department ever again." He added, "However, DoD is not aware of any criminal allegations against anyone managing the companies in question." Bob Maginnis, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who now works with a contractor for the Pentagon, said the department does background checks before signing contracts. "The DoD is obviously abiding by the law, and if we want them to look deeper and discriminate on religious or other activities we need to tell them." They probably have a secure wall of separation between the company and the sect. They can't discriminate. If we are squeamish about this close connection to companies run by members of the FDLS then why haven't we raided these compounds for years and enforced the law of one man, one wife? I don't think we can hold a "live and let live" policy and then scream when there is a faint connection between tax payer money going to legitimate companies run by men who live in polygamist marriages. We have to chose whether they have a right to live this way or not. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria from IN Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 It's a sad thing all the way around. The complete "Stepfordness" of the women is just amazing to me. The way they go on about "what's best for the children, the children, the children..." simply makes me sick. How many of the wives are children? Who's looking out for them? How many of those frontier tablecloth-wearing, bouffant-sculpting "wives" in that courtroom and begging on national television are (or were) mothers at 12, 13, 14? Just sick. :sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Hmm... so, if this is true and they are removing the children from the mothers at birth... and if true that the sons are tossed from the group at puberty... this farmer can't help but think: This is far too much like the contemporary commercial swine model -- take the weanlings from the sow as soon as possible so she can be rebred again promptly. Without question cull all the boars. They can't be bred back to the sows anyway. Keep around the old breeding boars because they've proven their virility already. And, don't forget to get the gilts breeding as soon as they show the first signs of estrus. The younger you can breed her the better. Kind of makes me want to puke, actually. Wow, Audrey, very interesting. Thanks for posting this.:001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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