I don't want to be a Christian anymore.

[Audrey]

In fact, I'd go as far as to say I am not one.

 

Really.

 

So many events, discussions, people, observations and prayer have lead me to this place.

 

[snipped list]

 

I love God. I hate many, many, many of the things people attribute to him or claim in his name.

 

 

 

 

Joanne, there's so much I want to say but it all comes down to this:

Do what feels right -- just as you are.

 

And, in all the years we've been on this board together, through agreements and disagreements, I have never, ever, not once, ever considered you the legalistic, fundy type of christian. In my mind, I could never picture you in that crowd of posters. Not ever.

[ciyates]

21) Duggars.

 

 

 

First, what did the Duggers do?

 

Second, am I the only one that has a relatively good experience with the church and people of the church in general?

 

My church is made of people who are very fallible as am I. They make mistakes and sometimes it takes a while to recognize they messed up. I would love to say I have lived my life without hurting someone but that would be a lie. We do our best and when we stumble we ask forgiveness and move on.

 

 

Joanne If you are at peace with your choice I wish you well.

[Rivka]

Joanne, I'm just a newbie here, but I have really valued your posts about religion. I understand that you are not just rebelling against inessential attitudes that some have layered on top of Christianity. I also once identified strongly as a liberal Christian, and eventually found the exclusive message to be more than I could accept.

 

I second, or third, or whatever the number has gotten to, the idea that at some point you might find that you are at home in a UU or a Christian Universalist church.

 

Best wishes to you.

[herbalgirl]

I think you are confusing religion with Christianity. They aren't the same.

 

:iagree: Please don't give up on believing in God because of a bunch of nutjobs that you've run into or heard about. They truly give Christianity a bad name, and that is horrible. I don't know if someone mentioned this yet, but I came across a quote by Gandhi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

I think this applies, unfortunately to many Christians. There are many, many lovely, sweet, wonderful Christians, though, too. This is one of the things that makes me sad for the woman who started the "No Longer Quivering" blog. In her attempt to get away from the spiritual abuse she was dealing with, she ran away from her faith, too. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. :grouphug:

[Audrey]

Yep, it's in the Fundamentalist Deck of Cards. Toss one out when someone's been hurt. Don't recognise the hurt, the pain, the wrong actions of others...just accuse the victim of being bitter.

 

 

I think I've seen most of that deck of cards. They're not so hot for attracting anyone to the faith, IMO.

[Joanne]

It sounds like you have fallen under some bad teachings to me. I wouldn't throw away God and Christ because of someone elses views on the subject. You need to have your own relationship.

 

Tam101,

 

Your post count indicates you are new. As such, I would not expect you to know already that I did have, do have and continue to have a relationship with God that is uniquely mine.

 

Although I've given up "Christ" as many here would understand him, I actually feel liberated to truly embrace and know Him.

 

Bad teachings doesn't really apply. I never personally believed in or was a member of a legalistic Christian church. What I've recently realized, however, is that I can't drink the kool-aid of even the mainline, liberal ones.

[6packofun]

Yes. Her issue is with people, not God, and the frustration of living in a world of selfish, stupid, sinful human beings. Also, I think that some folks like to concentrate on what they see being done "wrong" in the name of Christianity instead of noticing the (admittedly less obvious sometimes and more quiet) work of those who ARE living like Christ the best they can. Being a Christ-follower is NOT easy and it isn't surprising that some of us might be looking for an "out" once in a while. lol

 

But there's an aspect of always wanting Christianity to BE what we want it to be rather than trusting that the God of the Bible actually knows best and has revealed Himself to us, given us all the knowledge we need to do this Christian walk. If the Bible is only partly or sorta true or one only accepts parts of it that feel good, then yeah, they may not be a Christian anyhow or at the very least they've created their own sect. LOL Seriously, GOD decides what it means to be a follower of Christ and He's told us--we either agree and try to do it (not perfectly because even God does not expect that), or we don't. Simple. And if we don't because there are aspects that we don't accept about what this Christian God wants, then no, we're not Christians. That's an important thing to figure out. :)

[CLHCO]

 

Second, am I the only one that has a relatively good experience with the church and people of the church in general?

 

 

 

You're not, by far. Most of us who don't agree just stay away from the thread. This thread appears to be to support those with issues against it, and alternate views are likely not welcome, so there's no point.

 

I suppose if I posted "I'm tired of being a humanist", (something I did journey through), I'd get the same thing, only from the opposite end.

[Joanne]

:iagree: Please don't give up on believing in God because of a bunch of nutjobs that you've run into or heard about. They truly give Christianity a bad name, and that is horrible. I don't know if someone mentioned this yet, but I came across a quote by Gandhi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

I think this applies, unfortunately to many Christians. There are many, many lovely, sweet, wonderful Christians, though, too. This is one of the things that makes me sad for the woman who started the "No Longer Quivering" blog. In her attempt to get away from the spiritual abuse she was dealing with, she ran away from her faith, too. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. :grouphug:

 

For the extreme case of Vicky (and similar blogger, Ruth), I believe it *does* have to be all or nothing for a while at least.

 

That said, please read my post. Giving up on believing Christian doctrine, dogma, ritual, whatever does not equal giving up on God in my newly admitted opinion.

 

Sure, there are sweet, wonderful Christians. (And Jews, Pagans, Witches, Muslims, Atheists........) It's a red herring to my post, though. ;)

[Joanne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciyates

 

Second, am I the only one that has a relatively good experience with the church and people of the church in general?

 

You're not, by far. Most of us who don't agree just stay away from the thread. This thread appears to be to support those with issues against it, and alternate views are likely not welcome, so there's no point.

 

My personal experience in churches and with most church people has been "relatively good". It's probably the reason I'd stayed as long as I have. It's just that I've come to admit questioning the doctrine of even *those* settings. This is not a question of finding the "right" Christian church. I depart from a few "Christian" fundamentals and would never find a Christian church in which my soul and heart finds sanctuary.

 

Sure, I posted a lot of legalistic/conservative specifics, some extreme, but a lot of what I posted is not because of "bad church settings".

[herbalgirl]

For the extreme case of Vicky (and similar blogger, Ruth), I believe it *does* have to be all or nothing for a while at least.

 

That said, please read my post. Giving up on believing Christian doctrine, dogma, ritual, whatever does not equal giving up on God in my newly admitted opinion.

 

Sure, there are sweet, wonderful Christians. (And Jews, Pagans, Witches, Muslims, Atheists........) It's a red herring to my post, though. ;)

 

Joanne,

 

I just feel your pain. I understand where you're coming from, I guess that's all I wanted to say. These discussion boards are too hard sometimes for these indepth discussions. I'll just leave it as I hope you find what works for you. :grouphug:

[Lovedtodeath]

4) When any young child, ever, is told another person will go to hell if they don't believe, worship and celebrate in "X" way, with "X" bible.

 

11) Seeing "sin" everywhere. Honestly, I miss the mark often and have a discrepency between how I'd like to behave and how I *do* behave. I believe (no, I know) I need God. But I don't feel "depraved", "fallen" or evil.

 

I love God. I hate many, many, many of the things people attribute to him or claim in his name.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:What to do when the people in organized religion seems not to build up or encourage, but to tear down? God is not going to see fit to destroy me because I didn't do x and y good enough, but some people think that is true. It is a misrepresentation of His love and I am sick of it.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Tam101,

 

Your post count indicates you are new. As such, I would not expect you to know already that I did have, do have and continue to have a relationship with God that is uniquely mine.

 

 

 

 

Someone's post count doesn't indicate anything more than the number of times they have posted. The date joined doesn't indicate how long they may have been lurking on the boards. And no matter how long an individual has been on the boards they are under no obligation to be sure they know the personal histories of other board members before posting an opinion. This was a bit of a rude response to someone who seems to have been reaching out in kindness.

[mommaduck]

You're not, by far. Most of us who don't agree just stay away from the thread. This thread appears to be to support those with issues against it, and alternate views are likely not welcome, so there's no point.

 

I suppose if I posted "I'm tired of being a humanist", (something I did journey through), I'd get the same thing, only from the opposite end.

Maybe not even just for those that are against it; I'm not. But more of an understanding thread that people have been hurt and do get hurt or even just don't always agree and the nails can come out over it. It does get tiresome. One doesn't have to "be against" Christianity to understand that or to have experienced it.

[LG Gone Wild]

You're not, by far. Most of us who don't agree just stay away from the thread. This thread appears to be to support those with issues against it, and alternate views are likely not welcome, so there's no point.

 

I suppose if I posted "I'm tired of being a humanist", (something I did journey through), I'd get the same thing, only from the opposite end.

 

:iagree:

 

This is just a discussion I did not find profitable to engage in. (an interesting read, tho)

 

ETA: Just to clarify, I am not actually disagreeing w/ Joanne. The majority of her points are items which have led me deeper into my faith. Weird, huh?

Edited August 6, 2010 by LG Gone Wild

[Joanne]

Someone's post count doesn't indicate anything more than the number of times they have posted. The date joined doesn't indicate how long they may have been lurking on the boards. And no matter how long an individual has been on the boards they are under no obligation to be sure they know the personal histories of other board members before posting an opinion. This was a bit of a rude response to someone who seems to have been reaching out in kindness.

 

Actually, I felt her post was almost rude and that, in the content, missed what I actually wrote in this thread.

 

That's why I offered the benefit of doubt with regard to being new.

 

Anyone who has been around for a while, or lurked for any length of time whose read posts on spiritual content from me would know I believe in God, strongly and deeply. It's that very belief that kept me trying to make Christianity "work".

[CLHCO]

My personal experience in churches and with most church people has been "relatively good". It's probably the reason I'd stayed as long as I have. It's just that I've come to admit questioning the doctrine of even *those* settings. This is not a question of finding the "right" Christian church. I depart from a few "Christian" fundamentals and would never find a Christian church in which my soul and heart finds sanctuary.

 

Sure, I posted a lot of legalistic/conservative specifics, some extreme, but a lot of what I posted is not because of "bad church settings".

 

I admit, that was what the post I quoted was specific to, but it's not exactly what I'm referring to.

 

I don't agree with any of it. I find as much, if not more, hate in the secular world, which is a journey I went through years ago. Because of this and other things, I admit I don't even think a persons feelings on many issues matter as much as truth that matters, because feelings can be subjective, based on personal hurts or personal good experiences. However, when you cannot see eye to eye on what is truth, most of my thoughts on the subject wouldn't matter here. I posted mainly for other people looking at the thread with despair that so many have issues with what they hold so dear. I'm just piping in to suggest they're not the only ones who disagree.

 

More importantly, I think you were looking for support, not people bashing you for your decision. So, I stay out... ok, except I'm not really staying out... I'm posting this. :tongue_smilie: I'm staying out of the argument.

 

It's laundry day. I'm terrible at rabbit trails when there is laundry to do so I ask that everyone please give me the boot if I am tempted to post further. ;)

[Audrey]

Sure, there are sweet, wonderful Christians. (And Jews, Pagans, Witches, Muslims, Atheists........)

 

 

It's a small thing, but means a lot. Thank you for capitalizing "Witch" without sticking "Wicked" in front of it. :001_smile:

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Actually, I felt her post was almost rude and that, in the content, missed what I actually wrote in this thread.

 

That's why I offered the benefit of doubt with regard to being new.

 

Anyone who has been around for a while, or lurked for any length of time whose read posts on spiritual content from me would know I believe in God, strongly and deeply. It's that very belief that kept me trying to make Christianity "work".

 

I'm not sure that 3 sentences is enough to determine her intent. It is equally possible you are jumping to conclusions as this topic is obviously still a raw nerve for you.

 

Secondly-I don't want to see board members invalidating each others responses based on "time on the boards" or familiarity with each others posting history. If we can never listen to the voice of a new member then we can never grow.

[WishboneDawn]

Here's an excellent quote for this occasion: "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

 

I like that one, even as a believer. My choice to believe is my choice and others are absolutely free to dismiss it as silliness.

[WishboneDawn]

If the Bible is only partly or sorta true or one only accepts parts of it that feel good, then yeah, they may not be a Christian anyhow or at the very least they've created their own sect.

 

I'm always distressed when people assume that not accepting the Bible wholesale means that they're only picking the bits that feel good.

 

There's a whole world of biblical scholarship and criticism out there that offers the tools many good people here use to examine the Bible.

[pqr]

In fact, I'd go as far as to say I am not one.

 

Really.

 

So many events, discussions, people, observations and prayer have lead me to this place.

 

1) The woman who was sent from "our" church office with a list instead of some real help/counseling.

2) The idea that "divorce is not an option"

3) When, in a video announcement for "our" church, they had a man, silent, flipping sheets of paper with issues on them to come to Celebrate Recovery: addiction, porn, infidelity, same-sex attraction.

4) When any young child, ever, is told another person will go to hell if they don't believe, worship and celebrate in "X" way, with "X" bible.

5) Wifely Submission.

6) Spanking.

7) "Modesty"

8) Bad science aka in order to be a Christian, you must believe in a literal application of the Bible always, no matter what.

9) It's ok to go to foreign nations and tell people that how they understand God is wrong.

10) The elevation of a piece of paper "marriage certificate" to a living status.

11) Seeing "sin" everywhere. Honestly, I miss the mark often and have a discrepency between how I'd like to behave and how I *do* behave. I believe (no, I know) I need God. But I don't feel "depraved", "fallen" or evil.

12) Seeing certain "sin" more than others - usually sexual.

12) Exclusionary spiritualism.

13) Sex, intimacy.

14) "CSI" is ok, but Harry Potter, Twilight isn't.

15) My translation is better than your translation.

16) Male Leadership/Teaching only.

17) Arguements about *symbolic* gestures: baptism, Holy Communion

18) My Christianity is better than your Christianity but we are all better than the Jews, Muslims, New Agers, pagans (who don't deserve a capital letter)

19) Don't say "Oh, God".

20) Being angrily, stalwartly, against feminism. Yea? Go, ahead, read Mary Pride (I did when I believed her). Then see how she (and cohorts) handled Cheryl Seeloff.

21) Duggars.

22) Prayer in school. But what they *really* mean is Christian prayer in school.

23) Jesus would be a Democrat.

24) Jesus would be a Republican.

25) If we are being criticized as Christians, it's good because the Bible says we will be. It's never because we are being close minded or judgmental or unkind or just plain dumb.

26) All "other" practices of spirituality are wrong. Some of those are evil.

27) Yoga, meditation and Tae Chi are gateway exercises.

28) Extreme courtship.

29) Youth groups should be serious, for study.

30) Youth groups are evil.

31) "Church discipline"

32) Beware of psychology

33) Protect your kids from "the world", "keep their innocence by not telling them 'too early' about biology".

34) All forms of "should we be friends with this unbelieving family who {drinks, smokes, lives together, is less modest_________}

35) Christians who are against 12 step programs.

36) Because my son was "warned" at a homeschool class setting for having - gasp - a slight mowhawk.

37) Because of the hypocrisy of churches who would woo and ordain my xh but not welcome me into leadership because I have a vagina.

38) Because of the more generalized hypocrisy in church leadership.

 

 

 

Don't pray for me on this, really. Truly. I'm fine here, and in the afterlife. I believe that God created this earth and it's science. I believe Jesus was conceived in the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit, that he was born, had about a 3 year active ministry, was crucified, dead and burried (not so sure about the descended into hell thing) and resurrected and ascended into heaven. The trinty? Not sure. I believe God is God and in the presence of the Holy Spririt (in many forms).

 

 

I'm not at all worried about this belief.

 

I'm just sad that I can't stand the doctrine at most (including my present) churches but I am stuck there because it's best for my family. I'm sad that my student peers will get good counseling training and go out as professionals and break the first ethical rule: Do no harm.

 

I love God. I hate many, many, many of the things people attribute to him or claim in his name.

 

Editing to add this interesting link.

 

Fine, do not be a Christian that is your right, but a 38 point explanation of your rejection of the Christian faith smacks of a search for approval and is in many cases quite offensive to many posters as well as making little sense. If you can not accept the tenets of Christianity feel free to try something else.

 

Frankly speaking many of your reasons have little to do with Christianity anyway. Mohawks on boys (Reason 36)- well he would not be welcome in my house because I disapprove of such hair styles and it has NOTHING to do with my religious beliefs.

 

Reason 21- The Duggars?? So the logic here is that if one can find an adherant of a religion that you disagree with you can then tar the entire religion?

 

Reason 6- Spanking??? I know many on both sides of this issue who are good Christians so why would it make you leave the religion?

 

Reason 1- In essence this is simply a poor attempt to help, and for this you denigrate an entire religion?

 

Reason 15-Translation wars. Of course the users of one translation will think it is the best or else why would they use it?

 

Reason 14- CSI and harry Potter. You are going to leave your religion because some Christians object to Potter yet wach CSI?

 

I could continue with many of the other reasons you gave but it would be pointless.

 

Again the list and post seem simply a search for approval and your treatment of Tam101 indicates that you are not looking for open discussion.

Edited August 6, 2010 by pqr

[WishboneDawn]

Frankly speaking many of your reasons have little to do with Christianity anyway.

 

That's sort of the whole point of Joanne's post. All of the stuff that churches put in the way of Christianity and that have even come to define so much of what's called Christianity these days.

 

If we're really Christians, if we're really intent on living our faith, shouldn't we be listening to people like Joanne and the complaints of those that have left the church? Shouldn't we be fine with people airing their feelings this way so we can take a good look at what we've let our religion become? Or do we choose to dismiss it all and look for offense where we can?

[ktgrok]

One of our local Episcopalian Churches does, they also have wine and cheese parties at church. :)

 

The Episcopal Church I went to had a huge celebration after the Easter Vigil service....where they served tons of chocolates and champagne and wine, because the priest's family had given up chocolate and alcohol for lent, and man did it make for a great celebration!

[Mommyfaithe]

In fact, I'd go as far as to say I am not one.

 

Really.

 

So many events, discussions, people, observations and prayer have lead me to this place.

 

1) The woman who was sent from "our" church office with a list instead of some real help/counseling.

2) The idea that "divorce is not an option"

3) When, in a video announcement for "our" church, they had a man, silent, flipping sheets of paper with issues on them to come to Celebrate Recovery: addiction, porn, infidelity, same-sex attraction.

4) When any young child, ever, is told another person will go to hell if they don't believe, worship and celebrate in "X" way, with "X" bible.

5) Wifely Submission.

6) Spanking.

7) "Modesty"

8) Bad science aka in order to be a Christian, you must believe in a literal application of the Bible always, no matter what.

9) It's ok to go to foreign nations and tell people that how they understand God is wrong.

10) The elevation of a piece of paper "marriage certificate" to a living status.

11) Seeing "sin" everywhere. Honestly, I miss the mark often and have a discrepency between how I'd like to behave and how I *do* behave. I believe (no, I know) I need God. But I don't feel "depraved", "fallen" or evil.

12) Seeing certain "sin" more than others - usually sexual.

12) Exclusionary spiritualism.

13) Sex, intimacy.

14) "CSI" is ok, but Harry Potter, Twilight isn't.

15) My translation is better than your translation.

16) Male Leadership/Teaching only.

17) Arguements about *symbolic* gestures: baptism, Holy Communion

18) My Christianity is better than your Christianity but we are all better than the Jews, Muslims, New Agers, pagans (who don't deserve a capital letter)

19) Don't say "Oh, God".

20) Being angrily, stalwartly, against feminism. Yea? Go, ahead, read Mary Pride (I did when I believed her). Then see how she (and cohorts) handled Cheryl Seeloff.

21) Duggars.

22) Prayer in school. But what they *really* mean is Christian prayer in school.

23) Jesus would be a Democrat.

24) Jesus would be a Republican.

25) If we are being criticized as Christians, it's good because the Bible says we will be. It's never because we are being close minded or judgmental or unkind or just plain dumb.

26) All "other" practices of spirituality are wrong. Some of those are evil.

27) Yoga, meditation and Tae Chi are gateway exercises.

28) Extreme courtship.

29) Youth groups should be serious, for study.

30) Youth groups are evil.

31) "Church discipline"

32) Beware of psychology

33) Protect your kids from "the world", "keep their innocence by not telling them 'too early' about biology".

34) All forms of "should we be friends with this unbelieving family who {drinks, smokes, lives together, is less modest_________}

35) Christians who are against 12 step programs.

36) Because my son was "warned" at a homeschool class setting for having - gasp - a slight mowhawk.

37) Because of the hypocrisy of churches who would woo and ordain my xh but not welcome me into leadership because I have a vagina.

38) Because of the more generalized hypocrisy in church leadership.

 

 

 

Don't pray for me on this, really. Truly. I'm fine here, and in the afterlife. I believe that God created this earth and it's science. I believe Jesus was conceived in the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit, that he was born, had about a 3 year active ministry, was crucified, dead and burried (not so sure about the descended into hell thing) and resurrected and ascended into heaven. The trinty? Not sure. I believe God is God and in the presence of the Holy Spririt (in many forms).

 

 

I'm not at all worried about this belief.

 

I'm just sad that I can't stand the doctrine at most (including my present) churches but I am stuck there because it's best for my family. I'm sad that my student peers will get good counseling training and go out as professionals and break the first ethical rule: Do no harm.

 

I love God. I hate many, many, many of the things people attribute to him or claim in his name.

 

Editing to add this interesting link.

 

I agree with you....I did not read anyone else's responses...but this is what keeps me out of church.

 

I LOVE JESUS....I LOVE The LORD.....I LOVE People (for the most part....but detest the way religion and people have made God to be.....:grouphug:

Faithe

[ktgrok]

BTW - Gay marriage isn't the only marriage looked down upon by churches. Legal unions between men and women are also not considered "true" marriages - I have great issue with that too.

 

Based upon church dogma, my own grandmother told me to my face that my son (who she absolutely ADORES) was a bastard and that she fears for his soul. I was hurt beyond words.

 

My husband and I have been together for 12 years, married for 9. My son was born after 4 years of marriage - but it was a legal union, not a church sanctioned marriage. According to church dogma, we are not truly married in the eyes of God and my child is a bastard.

 

 

 

Is your grandmother catholic? If so, she is misinterpreting the "rules". I studied Roman Catholicism at the graduate level, and there are two issues with marraige. Is it legal, and is it "holy" for want of a better word. Your marriage IS acknowledged by the church as being an actual marriage, and your son is not a bastard. The church would quibble that the marriage isn't a sacrament, because it wasn't done in church, but that doesn't make it invalid.

[pqr]

That's sort of the whole point of Joanne's post. All of the stuff that churches put in the way of Christianity and that have even come to define so much of what's called Christianity these days.

 

If we're really Christians, if we're really intent on living our faith, shouldn't we be listening to people like Joanne and the complaints of those that have left the church? Shouldn't we be fine with people airing their feelings this way so we can take a good look at what we've let our religion become? Or do we choose to dismiss it all and look for offense where we can?

 

 

I have no truck with airing opinions, I do it enough, but the 38 points were not all logically tied to Christianity. Further the response to Tam101 indicated that there was little desire for discussion but rather a desire for acclaim.

 

 

CSI and Harry Potter? Leave one's faith because some oppose Harry Potter? I would need stronger stuff than that.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Fine, do not be a Christian that is your right, but a 38 point explanation of your rejection of the Christian faith smacks of a search for approval and is in many cases quite offensive to many posters as well as making little sense. If you can not accept the tenets of Christianity feel free to try something else.

 

After getting banned a week ago I should probably avoid this topic completely, but perhaps if you do not agree with this thread you should simply avoid it? You know, not object to each point on her 38-point list and try something else? In other words, take your own advice.

 

It really is hard to come out with the information that you are questioning your faith. Especially on a board such as this, where you can forge some real relationships over time, and where many people are avid Christians who could not possibly understand why you'd be questioning your faith (see tags such as "sad decision"). So it is easier to list out the reasons you are questioning. Sometimes, I've found, that's the only way to prove that you're not losing your mind and you have put a great deal of thought into everything.

 

And sometimes, as you've proven, that just isn't enough to avoid being attacked.

[PollyOR]

I love God. I hate many, many, many of the things people attribute to him or claim in his name.

 

Hitting the nail on the head. :smash:

[WishboneDawn]

I have no truck with airing opinions, I do it enough, but the 38 points were not all logically tied to Christianity.

 

Again, that was the point. The fact that so many churchs and Christians seem determined to tie those things to Christianity

 

Further the response to Tam101 indicated that there was little desire for discussion but rather a desire for acclaim.

 

There have been pages of discussion here.

 

Regardless, There probably isn't room for discussion on Joanne's faith. She made it clear in the very first post that her faith wasn't at issue. That it was her label as "Christian" and why she no longer wanted it that was the issue.

 

CSI and Harry Potter? Leave one's faith because some oppose Harry Potter? I would need stronger stuff than that.

 

You yourself pointed out that there were 37 other reasons. I suspect that if HP and CSI were all Joanne had to complain about then there would be no issue. To pretend the issue is just HP and CSI is misleading and wrong.

[pqr]

 

You yourself pointed out that there were 37 other reasons. I suspect that if HP and CSI were all Joanne had to complain about then there would be no issue. To pretend the issue is just HP and CSI is misleading and wrong.

 

 

There are many other points mentioned including the Duggars and mohawks....the point is that if you do not want a discussion on these points then do not post them. To post and then attack a poster (Tam101) for challenging the validity of the 38 reasons smacks of a search for approval rather than any intent to discuss. On a discussion board one should expect anything that they post to be discussed.

 

I did not only reference one point, go back about a page and see that I mentioned about half a dozen and that many more could be challenged.

[WishboneDawn]

I sense this is going in circles PQR. :rolleyes: I think I'll bow out now.

[mommaduck]

I'm just stunned that someone would not be permitted in one's home simply because they had a mohawk. Does it matter what that person's reason for the mohawk is? What about if someone shaved their head bald on purpose? A goatee? I'm sorry, I'm just still trying to figure this one out. I can understand disapproving or not liking them, but to say they can never enter your home...hmmm.

[Mejane]

That's sort of the whole point of Joanne's post. All of the stuff that churches put in the way of Christianity and that have even come to define so much of what's called Christianity these days.

 

 

 

This, exactly. The list is absurd, as is the notion that one must adhere to anything/everything on it in order to be a good christian. If I hadn't experienced much of it myself, I wouldn't believe it.

[WishboneDawn]

Joanne - Could we re-brand? Not call ourselves Christians but maybe something like the Jesusites? Jesusians? :D

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Joanne - Could we re-brand? Not call ourselves Christians but maybe something like the Jesusites? Jesusians? :D

 

Well, there IS a new group of christians who call themselves "Christ Followers" or "Followers of Jesus". Same thing to me, though.

[Alenee]

I have to add my 2 cents here and agree wholeheartedly with PQR. I would not hesitate to assume he's just saying what SO MANY here want to say.

 

Joanne, you have made it clear by all of your so-called religious posts that you are unwilling to be called out by your own sisters in Christ which smacks of fleshly pride. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Many of us here recognize that and try hard to live a Christ-like life, yet when anyone, anyone, questions you and the validity of what you say, you never ever bow out and apologize for your words, your pride, or back down and recognize that in following Christ, there is TRUTH. Not feelings. You have wanted your own brand of Christianity from the beginning and as a sister in Christ, I am calling you out. You need to think more clearly before you post such things and recognize who you are suppose to be and to Whom you belong and WHY you belong to Him. You said in your original post that you don't think you're "fallen"...well then, why do you love Christ?

 

We are all trying, hopefully with the help of the Holy Spirit, to follow Christ. Stop worrying over what others are doing and live for Christ yourself. Once you do that, once you recognize your own sin, maybe then you'll have the grace to deal with all the people who attach their own brands to Christianity.

[WishboneDawn]

Well, there IS a new group of christians who call themselves "Christ Followers" or "Followers of Jesus". Same thing to me, though.

 

Doesn't have much of a ring to it. Maybe the J-Folk or Jesus' Awesome Dudes.

 

Or perhaps just The ****ed. :D

[MyBlueLobsters]

I have to add my 2 cents here and agree wholeheartedly with PQR. I would not hesitate to assume he's just saying what SO MANY here want to say.

 

Joanne, you have made it clear by all of your so-called religious posts that you are unwilling to be called out by your own sisters in Christ which smacks of fleshly pride. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Many of us here recognize that and try hard to live a Christ-like life, yet when anyone, anyone, questions you and the validity of what you say, you never ever bow out and apologize for your words, your pride, or back down and recognize that in following Christ, there is TRUTH. Not feelings. You have wanted your own brand of Christianity from the beginning and as a sister in Christ, I am calling you out. You need to think more clearly before you post such things and recognize who you are suppose to be and to Whom you belong and WHY you belong to Him. You said in your original post that you don't think you're "fallen"...well then, why do you love Christ?

 

We are all trying, hopefully with the help of the Holy Spirit, to follow Christ. Stop worrying over what others are doing and live for Christ yourself. Once you do that, once you recognize your own sin, maybe then you'll have the grace to deal with all the people who attach their own brands to Christianity.

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

[WishboneDawn]

Ha! I didn't realized what I typed, a word that's also used, albeit with a different spelling, to describe a thing beavers build, would be marked like that.

 

Now it look so much naughtier! And I like it! :D

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The original post was an expression of opinion. The thread has now devolved into personal attack. Please take it to PM if you find it necessary to continue.

 

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