Consequences of pushing ds ahead in K-1st. Remediation help for 5th-6th grade.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

When my ds was in kindergarten he flew through his math, so I let him move into 1st grade math. Now he is 10 moving into 6th grade, and math is harder. Truly, it's a developmental/maturity issue.

 

I'm tempted to repeat 5th grade and remediate language arts as well for the same maturity reasons. He's a bright kid. He understands some of the work.... just not to mastery. I am the one at fault for pushing him ahead before he was ready. It seemed to be ok early on, but now that he is in upper elementary grades, some concepts are challenging to the point of frustration.

 

I so regret moving him ahead when he was younger. I think it would be a mistake to continue pushing him into 6th grade math. (We're using Horizons.) Yet, it might be crushing to him if he repeats 5th. He understands what grade he is in. I didn't realize when he was younger why "better late than early". Now I know..... especially for boys.

 

We have tried LOF Fractions this summer. He seemed to have some success on the lessons, but got frustrated with the Bridges. He did not finish the book.

 

(I have CLE 6th grade ready for next year's language arts. Since we dd Easy Grammar 6 this past year, I think most concepts in CLE 6 will be a review.)

 

Is there anything that can bridge the gap: remediate without humiliation? Or..... repeat 5th? I've looked at ALEKS this morning which looks pretty good at first glance.

 

I would be so thankful for any help with this issue.

[Pongo]

(I have CLE 6th grade ready for next year's language arts. Since we dd Easy Grammar 6 this past year, I think most concepts in CLE 6 will be a review.)

 

Is there anything that can bridge the gap: remediate without humiliation? Or..... repeat 5th? I've looked at ALEKS this morning which looks pretty good at first glance.

 

I would be so thankful for any help with this issue.

 

I think you will be pretty suprised with CLE 6, I would not say it would be review at all. Did you have him take the placement test for it? I would say its quite a step up from Easy Grammar.

 

When you say remediate, do you mean, math facts? Or Fractions, decimals and percents? Or basic foundational math? MUS is separated into topics as well as Math Without Borders, but not nearly as flashy as Horizons. I think it might be best to try some for the free online placement tests, Singapore, Saxon and TT come to mind, I'm sure there's more. Then you can see where he is placing, and hone in on those particular concepts are holding him up. Lastly, you could look into the BJU work-text for review. You could pull out the chapters he needs work on staple them and put them in a folder, he would never know the grade level.:D

[johnandtinagilbert]

First, I sympathize. It took me a long while and a handful of regret to see that early doesn't always mean better. Sometimes in our rush to move forward, the maturity and academics end up a little out of place. You're certainly not the first one to come to this conclusion :)

 

Use what you need, where you need it. If he's fine in history or science (you didn't mention those areas) just keep moving forward and keep you expectations on an upper grammar level, instead of middle school responsibilities.

 

If you want a year of grammar review, I suggest Daily Grams. As you work through the program you'll notice weaknesses. That's when you pull out that 5th grade book and do a few lessons for remediation. There is no need to work him where he's already comfortable. If you want a year of thorough grammar, then shoot for Rod and Staff. It will definitely bring him to pace and using the year 6 book will allow him the appearance of 6th grade. Honestly, there isn't really that much difference between RS5 & 6 anyways :)

 

As for math, I suggest "Boot Camp" I had all of my dc use MUS Fractions (as quickly as they could) and simply told them I thought they all needed more mastery before they moved on. Tell him that once you get to pre-algebra, many people take 2 years to get through pre-alg or alg. This is entirely true.

 

My rising 8th grader really needed an extra year for math remediation, so I used Rod and Staff for that too. It was inexpensive, thorough, and since the publishers don't intend for high school or algebra, the 6-8th grade texts are focused on general math. This will take the pain of a 5th grade book out for him :)

 

FWIW, we don't use RS daily, but when I know we need remediation, I trust their materials to do a thorough job via explanation, presentation, practice and every time I've used anything they publish, I get solid results. It's not exciting to use, but it gets the job done!

[JudoMom]

When my ds was in kindergarten he flew through his math, so I let him move into 1st grade math. Now he is 10 moving into 6th grade, and math is harder. Truly, it's a developmental/maturity issue.

 

I'm tempted to repeat 5th grade and remediate language arts as well for the same maturity reasons. He's a bright kid. He understands some of the work.... just not to mastery. I am the one at fault for pushing him ahead before he was ready. It seemed to be ok early on, but now that he is in upper elementary grades, some concepts are challenging to the point of frustration.

 

I so regret moving him ahead when he was younger. I think it would be a mistake to continue pushing him into 6th grade math. (We're using Horizons.) Yet, it might be crushing to him if he repeats 5th. He understands what grade he is in. I didn't realize when he was younger why "better late than early". Now I know..... especially for boys.

 

We have tried LOF Fractions this summer. He seemed to have some success on the lessons, but got frustrated with the Bridges. He did not finish the book.

 

(I have CLE 6th grade ready for next year's language arts. Since we dd Easy Grammar 6 this past year, I think most concepts in CLE 6 will be a review.)

 

Is there anything that can bridge the gap: remediate without humiliation? Or..... repeat 5th? I've looked at ALEKS this morning which looks pretty good at first glance.

 

I would be so thankful for any help with this issue.

 

Have you considered Saxon for math? I would think he would place into 6/5 or 7/6, so the numbers on the book shouldn't cause him any trouble.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Pongo,

I did have him take the CLE placement tests. He was boarderline between 5-6. At the time, I just hated the thought of backtracking when we had just finished EG 6. Since many of the concepts were similar, I chose grade 6.

 

Math: He has a basic understanding of fractions, decimals, and percents. It's just not to mastery. I really thought after doing Horizons 5, he would be able to do LOF Fractions because he could do the work in Horizons. However, he missed some of the same type problems in the LOF that were in Horizons 5. It's just super clear that he needs more experience/maturity.

 

We used MUS from K-1st semester of 4th grade. Then we switched to Horizons. MUS made me nervous the longer we used it. I know the mastery approach has its strengths, yet, I felt like ds was not being exposed to charts, graphs, a variety of all kinds of math problems that are common in spiral books. We started Horizons in 2nd semester of 4th grade. My ds prefers the format of Horizons over MUS.

 

Your suggestion to use placement tests to find his current math level is great. I'll try that.

 

Thank you!

 

 

I think you will be pretty suprised with CLE 6, I would not say it would be review at all. Did you have him take the placement test for it? I would say its quite a step up from Easy Grammar.

 

When you say remediate, do you mean, math facts? Or Fractions, decimals and percents? Or basic foundational math? MUS is separated into topics as well as Math Without Borders, but not nearly as flashy as Horizons. I think it might be best to try some for the free online placement tests, Singapore, Saxon and TT come to mind, I'm sure there's more. Then you can see where he is placing, and hone in on those particular concepts are holding him up. Lastly, you could look into the BJU work-text for review. You could pull out the chapters he needs work on staple them and put them in a folder, he would never know the grade level.:D

[Mommamia]

(My boys are younger). We switched from Horizons to MUS. Have you looked at MUS?

 

Ooops, I just read your above post. Disregard my MUS thought :)

[Mallory]

How about Lial's Basic College Math?

 

Definately not a kids book! My 10 is using it.

 

I have heard some complaints that the large lessons and topics have made it hard for some younger students. But he finds the questions about finance or business interesting. We usually read the section of the lesson together (say 2.1) and then answer the questions for just that section (so our days aren't too long).

 

We are also going over math facts using 100 problems in 5 min. tests.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Tina,

Thank you so much.

 

As for history and science, my ds is learning right along with his sister (7th grade) and brother (2nd grade).... each working at his/her grade level. We're doing Ancient history with Biblioplan and Life Science. I'm trying to use WTM approach this year. Before that, we used Sonlight and Apologia. Science and history do not pose the same problems as math and language arts.

 

We used Easy Grammar and Daily Grams grade 6 this past year. I ended up choosing CLE because I thought a workbook text would be better for him over R&S.... and I wanted something to teach diagramming. I liked the appearance of CLE..... easier on the eye.

 

Your combination of Daily Grams and R&S sounds very do-able! Initially, I choose CLE instead of R&S because of the format: workbook vs. writing sentences. I'll have to revisit R&S again. If we do most of the exercises orally, maybe that would work. Even though R&S teaches diagramming, I could still use the CLE diagramming books I bought which will start at a 2nd grade level and progress quickly to bring him up to speed.

 

I just have to make this a successful year for him without causing him to fall behind. This is not so much an issue of "repeating" a grade. It is more accurate to say we're putting him in the grade where he should have been all along! I'm struggling with how to get him there without making him feel bad.

 

Can I call for a do-over?:001_unsure:

 

 

 

First, I sympathize. It took me a long while and a handful of regret to see that early doesn't always mean better. Sometimes in our rush to move forward, the maturity and academics end up a little out of place. You're certainly not the first one to come to this conclusion :)

 

Use what you need, where you need it. If he's fine in history or science (you didn't mention those areas) just keep moving forward and keep you expectations on an upper grammar level, instead of middle school responsibilities.

 

If you want a year of grammar review, I suggest Daily Grams. As you work through the program you'll notice weaknesses. That's when you pull out that 5th grade book and do a few lessons for remediation. There is no need to work him where he's already comfortable. If you want a year of thorough grammar, then shoot for Rod and Staff. It will definitely bring him to pace and using the year 6 book will allow him the appearance of 6th grade. Honestly, there isn't really that much difference between RS5 & 6 anyways :)

 

As for math, I suggest "Boot Camp" I had all of my dc use MUS Fractions (as quickly as they could) and simply told them I thought they all needed more mastery before they moved on. Tell him that once you get to pre-algebra, many people take 2 years to get through pre-alg or alg. This is entirely true.

 

My rising 8th grader really needed an extra year for math remediation, so I used Rod and Staff for that too. It was inexpensive, thorough, and since the publishers don't intend for high school or algebra, the 6-8th grade texts are focused on general math. This will take the pain of a 5th grade book out for him :)

 

FWIW, we don't use RS daily, but when I know we need remediation, I trust their materials to do a thorough job via explanation, presentation, practice and every time I've used anything they publish, I get solid results. It's not exciting to use, but it gets the job done!

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Have you considered Saxon for math? I would think he would place into 6/5 or 7/6, so the numbers on the book shouldn't cause him any trouble.

 

 

Judo Mom,

 

I have thought about Saxon and read about it and looked at it.

 

So many people love Saxon and have great success with it. Maybe I need to consider it. You are right about the grade level numbers. That truly would speak to my situation with my ds.

 

Since my son likes the color and format of Horizons, I'm not sure Saxon would be the right step.

 

I will certainly have to decide either to stay in Horizons and repeat grade 5, go on to grade 6, or choose something to complement or replace Horizons.

 

I hate having to make decisions.

[elegantlion]

:grouphug: My ds 12 is all over the board academic wise. His skills run through about five grade levels. One of the best things I did was stop thinking about grade levels at all. When he was in 4th grade I had chose one book that was 1st grade level, I took the pages out and gave them to him individually.

 

As a mother it was a bit humbling to think I had somehow failed him. Now I find myself gravitating toward materials that don't use grade levels as part of their labeling. It's very freeing. If you want to repeat fifth grade material I would suggest looking for products without those grade distinctions.

 

If that's not possible, sell it. Remind him that you require mastery to move ahead, this publisher has a different scope and sequence, or if the grade level is on the cover, remove the cover.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

How about Lial's Basic College Math?

 

Definately not a kids book! My 10 is using it.

 

I have heard some complaints that the large lessons and topics have made it hard for some younger students. But he finds the questions about finance or business interesting. We usually read the section of the lesson together (say 2.1) and then answer the questions for just that section (so our days aren't too long).

 

We are also going over math facts using 100 problems in 5 min. tests.

 

 

Mallory,

 

My 7th grader is going to use Lial's BCM for pre-algebra. Of course, we could borrow her book to help explain the math. What a wonderful idea!

 

I'm still weighing the issues of keeping him in 6th or putting him where he should be (age-wise) in 5th which would be more appropriate developmentally and for maturity reasons.

[FloridaLisa]

Is there anything that can bridge the gap: remediate without humiliation? Or..... repeat 5th? I've looked at ALEKS this morning which looks pretty good at first glance.

 

 

Don't beat yourself up! :grouphug: Really -- many kids hit a wall throughout their development and, then they grow and grey matter kicks in and they scale that wall. You are wise to want to shore up the basic math before moving into higher level concepts. And, really, there is time for him to continue into much higher math through high school.

 

What about playing games to reinforce the basics? Games with fractions, decimals, multiplication and division, place value, etc. Maybe getting away from pen and paper and just playing with math would spark some math intuition.

 

Lisa

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Paula, I do feel very responsible for my ds's situation. If I had not pushed him ahead, he would naturally be in 5th grade this year without a struggle, I imagine.

 

I'm trying to keep this situation simple in my mind. I don't need to blow it out of proportion. I just need to fix the problem at the lowest level. That way, I hope, I'll avoid making him feel self-conscious.

 

Using non-grade specific books is a great idea.

 

Thank you!

 

 

:grouphug: My ds 12 is all over the board academic wise. His skills run through about five grade levels. One of the best things I did was stop thinking about grade levels at all. When he was in 4th grade I had chose one book that was 1st grade level, I took the pages out and gave them to him individually.

 

As a mother it was a bit humbling to think I had somehow failed him. Now I find myself gravitating toward materials that don't use grade levels as part of their labeling. It's very freeing. If you want to repeat fifth grade material I would suggest looking for products without those grade distinctions.

 

If that's not possible, sell it. Remind him that you require mastery to move ahead, this publisher has a different scope and sequence, or if the grade level is on the cover, remove the cover.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina,

Thank you so much.

 

As for history and science, my ds is learning right along with his sister (7th grade) and brother (2nd grade).... each working at his/her grade level. We're doing Ancient history with Biblioplan and Life Science. I'm trying to use WTM approach this year. Before that, we used Sonlight and Apologia. Science and history do not pose the same problems as math and language arts.

 

We used Easy Grammar and Daily Grams grade 6 this past year. I ended up choosing CLE because I thought a workbook text would be better for him over R&S.... and I wanted something to teach diagramming. I liked the appearance of CLE..... easier on the eye.

 

Your combination of Daily Grams and R&S sounds very do-able! Initially, I choose CLE instead of R&S because of the format: workbook vs. writing sentences. I'll have to revisit R&S again. If we do most of the exercises orally, maybe that would work. Even though R&S teaches diagramming, I could still use the CLE diagramming books I bought which will start at a 2nd grade level and progress quickly to bring him up to speed.

 

I just have to make this a successful year for him without causing him to fall behind. This is not so much an issue of "repeating" a grade. It is more accurate to say we're putting him in the grade where he should have been all along! I'm struggling with how to get him there without making him feel bad.

 

Can I call for a do-over?:001_unsure:

 

I completely understand. We waited to start K, but in my teaching novice, I missed plenty of things that are important for high school and created some gaps. I have honestly spent the last 2 year catching up and just talked to ds this morning about having one more semester (from h.e.double hockey sticks) before he can just be at his grade level. It has been exhausting, but I think he'll find it was worthwhile b/c he is truly ready for high school.

 

Honestly, I think if you approach your son and start to explain how important being ready for junior high is b/c he'll be growing a lot there before high school, he'll understand. Tell him everyone has areas where they need a little more practice and before he runs off to middle school, he really needs to practice in those areas so what comes next will not be too difficult. Its easy to tell him all the math practice he's been doing will be a small part of algebra, so he needs to be ready and fast!

 

Perhaps, if you take a "no biggie" approach, you can lead him in that direction, too.

 

Best wishes on recovery!:001_smile: I know just where you are!:grouphug: And make sure his younger sib thanks him for teaching you some new lessons :)

[PeterPan]

I see two issues here. One is the grade you're calling him vs. his age and the other is his academic options. There was NOTHING wrong with giving him the math ahead of his age. Where you made the mistake was calling him the grade ahead. (Is that what you're doing?) Kpzz, who used to post a lot on the accelerated board, had posts explaining how to decide whether to grade skip. There are times when this is helpful, but IN GENERAL it's wise to remember that MANY kids are advanced and that kids CAN plateau out or change pace later. In other words, I would start calling him by his age grade and correct this immediately. Just be upfront and bite the bullet. WTM gives you a concrete standard to compare to, and unless he's there or ahead on every single measure (amount and level of writing, etc.), I would call him by his age grade and be done with it.

 

Next, it sounds like you're very in the box on levels and grades. You can start CLE math in the middle of a grade level, because it's lots of separate booklets. Figure out where he places and just do it. Or go to a program that focuses more on understanding. What you're reaping is the consequence of just doing math without understanding. I also don't think it's accurate to expect a dc to go from Horizons 5 to LoF. They might, but it's more typically a math 6 to LoF. LoF is trying to get them to think and apply outside of the box, not just crunch formulaically. My dd had no problem going from BJU 6 to LoF and FLEW through it.

 

He sounds like a very bright, rising 5th grader. I'd give him a placement test and put him into a math curriculum that allows you to work with him and build better understanding. BJU6 is good. MUS would be fine. My dd did Math Olympiad stuff this past year (5th gr) and enjoyed it. You might look into something like that. Acceleration is not the only way to do well.

[iammommy]

How about using something like Teaching Textbooks 6? Most here say it's a year"behind". So, you'd probably be doing math right at his 5th grade level? Just a thought.

 

Nan

[Ellie]

Having him move more slowly in some subjects does not mean that you are holding him back/making him repeat a whole grade. Nor does it necessarily mean that you pushed him too much when he was younger. It could be a momentary glitch. It could be that the math product you're using is not a good fit. It happens to children all the time, regardless of whether they started "first grade."

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Lisa,

I agree... This is also a child who has handwriting issues. Working with manipulatives might take some of the struggle out of math by avoiding so much writing.

 

He is really a scientist at heart and will probably end up being a college professor or entrepreneur one day.... if not an archaelolgist... one of his true loves! He writes just like a doctor!

 

You have a great idea. I, however, have a weakness.... I need a lesson plan. I need something that tells me to start here and finish there. Without a lesson plan, I feel like I will leave out important concepts and end up being behind. There has to be a balance between hands-on and skills. KWIM?

 

Don't beat yourself up! :grouphug: Really -- many kids hit a wall throughout their development and, then they grow and grey matter kicks in and they scale that wall. You are wise to want to shore up the basic math before moving into higher level concepts. And, really, there is time for him to continue into much higher math through high school.

 

What about playing games to reinforce the basics? Games with fractions, decimals, multiplication and division, place value, etc. Maybe getting away from pen and paper and just playing with math would spark some math intuition.

 

Lisa

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I see two issues here. One is the grade you're calling him vs. his age and the other is his academic options. There was NOTHING wrong with giving him the math ahead of his age. Where you made the mistake was calling him the grade ahead. (Is that what you're doing?)

Yes. Yes. Yes. He should be in 5th grade. This is where he would be if I had not moved him ahead. He knows that he has finished the 5th grade math book and that he should do the 6th grade book next.

If I take a compassionate but matter-of-fact approach with him, I might be able to convince him that doing 5th grade math over will be less frustrating and give him greater opportunity for success. Then again, he might feel aweful about repeating 5th grade.

 

Kpzz, who used to post a lot on the accelerated board, had posts explaining how to decide whether to grade skip. There are times when this is helpful, but IN GENERAL it's wise to remember that MANY kids are advanced and that kids CAN plateau out or change pace later. In other words, I would start calling him by his age grade and correct this immediately. Just be upfront and bite the bullet. WTM gives you a concrete standard to compare to, and unless he's there or ahead on every single measure (amount and level of writing, etc.), I would call him by his age grade and be done with it.

 

I actually agree with you. Practically speaking, I have to choose something. I'll certainly look at CLE math. He likes the format of Horizons, and since we switched math when he was in 4th grade (from MUS to Horizons), I really would hope to stay with Horizons for the sake of continuity.

 

 

Next, it sounds like you're very in the box on levels and grades. You can start CLE math in the middle of a grade level, because it's lots of separate booklets. Figure out where he places and just do it. Or go to a program that focuses more on understanding.

 

What you're reaping is the consequence of just doing math without understanding.

 

Absolutely! An under-lying issue: We constantly work on reading, understanding, and following directions. These things directly impact everything in his school work. These are also developmental/maturity related.

 

 

I also don't think it's accurate to expect a dc to go from Horizons 5 to LoF. They might, but it's more typically a math 6 to LoF. LoF is trying to get them to think and apply outside of the box, not just crunch formulaically. My dd had no problem going from BJU 6 to LoF and FLEW through it.

 

Absolutely.... once again. My dd who finished Horizons 6 this year (previous MUS experience in grades 1-5) has not had any problems with LOF Fractions and is now in the Decimals and Percents book. It's becoming challenging, but she has not really struggled with it at all.

 

He sounds like a very bright, rising 5th grader.

 

He is!:001_smile: I love him so much, and I hate that I made a wrong decision that has put us in this situation. Honestly, I'm not trying to be dramatic.... I'm really trying to keep this situation simple, and fix the problem at its lowest level. I have to tackle this problem in the most practical way and not blow it out of proportion.... for my ds's sake.

 

 

I'd give him a placement test and put him into a math curriculum that allows you to work with him and build better understanding. BJU6 is good. MUS would be fine. My dd did Math Olympiad stuff this past year (5th gr) and enjoyed it. You might look into something like that. Acceleration is not the only way to do well.

 

I will also check out BJU6 and Math Olympiad.

Thanks so much, Elizabeth!

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Nan,

 

Thanks for responding!

 

TT might work for his personality. I'll have to consider it.

 

I really hope not to make a curricula change since we switched from MUS to Horizons in 2nd semester 4th grade. I think continuity is important, but I might have to consider changing.

 

I've read that a lot of people like TT. I've also read TT levels are not at the same level as other curriculua and you have to be careful.

 

 

 

 

How about using something like Teaching Textbooks 6? Most here say it's a year"behind". So, you'd probably be doing math right at his 5th grade level? Just a thought.

 

Nan

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Having him move more slowly in some subjects does not mean that you are holding him back/making him repeat a whole grade. Nor does it necessarily mean that you pushed him too much when he was younger. It could be a momentary glitch. It could be that the math product you're using is not a good fit. It happens to children all the time, regardless of whether they started "first grade."

 

 

Absolutely, Ellie.

 

Thanks for keeping me in check. The last thing I need is to blow this out of proportion. Yet, I tend to do that very easily!

[SapphireStitch]

How about using the Key To workbooks for this year's math? They have several series that would cover the things he needs to review. He could even work through two or three of the series at a time...rotating between Fractions, Decimals, and Measurements, for instance. They are not at all babyish, and don't have any grade identifiers that I remember.

 

FWIW, I went through this same thing with my daughter. She was so good at several subjects that I pushed her to work above grade level. She was enthused about being "ahead" when she was young, but ended up crashing and burning spectacularly when she turned 14. The combination of acceleration and adolescence was just too much. She recovered and went on to graduate later than we originally planned (she was 18 instead of 16, what a tragedy.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Having learned that lesson the hard way, I'm now probably over-compensating in the other direction by going out of my way not to push my son too much. But we wouldn't be human parents if we didn't screw them all up equally, eh?

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Beth,

 

The Key To books might be great! I am interested in non-grade specific material.

 

I am so sympathetic to what you went through with your daughter!!! Oh, how I want to make the right decisions for my ds. I feel like he is paying for my mistakes.

 

Ok... I can't afford to over dramatize this.... keep it simple... work the problem at its lowest level.... :chillpill:

 

I'll check out Key To!

 

Thanks!

 

 

How about using the Key To workbooks for this year's math? They have several series that would cover the things he needs to review. He could even work through two or three of the series at a time...rotating between Fractions, Decimals, and Measurements, for instance. They are not at all babyish, and don't have any grade identifiers that I remember.

 

FWIW, I went through this same thing with my daughter. She was so good at several subjects that I pushed her to work above grade level. She was enthused about being "ahead" when she was young, but ended up crashing and burning spectacularly when she turned 14. The combination of acceleration and adolescence was just too much. She recovered and went on to graduate later than we originally planned (she was 18 instead of 16, what a tragedy.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Having learned that lesson the hard way, I'm now probably over-compensating in the other direction by going out of my way not to push my son too much. But we wouldn't be human parents if we didn't screw them all up equally, eh?

[KathyBC]

I just wanted to reinforce what others have said: you have NOT done your son a disservice. To hold him back in a subject when he was clearly mastering it would have been cruel. Now that he's reaching more difficult material, he has a whole year buffer zone to really master concepts in depth before moving on. You've set him up well, truly!

 

As others have mentioned, just call him the grade that matches his age, but allow him to work in each subject at the level which fits him. If the number on the book matters, absolutely check out BJU, Saxon, TT, or the Key To workbooks. He's a bright kid, you'll find something that fits.

Edited July 8, 2010 by KathyBC

[KathyBC]

I think it would be a mistake to continue pushing him into 6th grade math. (We're using Horizons.) Yet, it might be crushing to him if he repeats 5th. He understands what grade he is in. I didn't realize when he was younger why "better late than early". Now I know..... especially for boys.

 

We have tried LOF Fractions this summer. He seemed to have some success on the lessons, but got frustrated with the Bridges. He did not finish the book.

 

 

Hang on. So he had trouble with LOF Fractions. But did he have trouble through the year with Horizons 5?

[Marie in Oh]

I would consider TT6 for sure. It would be easier and it would give him confidence because he will be successful. The number would make him think he was progressing. It is spiral and has lots of practice.

 

The other thing to think and to consider is that no matter what math they use (other than MUS I suppose) basically til the get to Algebra 1, math is more and more review of the basics. I mean, TT 7 and Pre Algebra still review fractions, decimals, and percents til the cows come home. Most 6th, 7th, and Pre Algebra is just that-- cementing those concepts til they are ready for the abstract concepts of Algebra. What I am trying to get at is that no matter what curriculum you use, he's going to see that stuff again and again in the next couple of years.

 

Also, a failure to grasp concepts using LOF may not be a good indicator of his grasp of fractions. My son went from Epsilon in 5th to LOF in 6th and he just didn't get it ,but he had done pretty well with Epsilon. It was way too out side of the box for him. He just doesn't like that way of coming at math. Too chatty or something. Anyway, I guess I am saying, it may not be time to panic. Boys between 10 and 13 have alot going on physcially and mentally, and what they really need is just to stay at it during that period. It will come.

 

My son did TT 7 last year duing 6th grade. Though he tested ito 7 just right, I should have handed him TT6 and let him have a year of confidence. It would have been better for him. There were too many tears and too much frustration. I finally slowed him down mid year and had him do 1/2 a lesson each day. Now he has 40 lessons in 7 left before Pre-Algebra, so if he doesn't hit that til January, all the better. He has just needed time to mature.

 

I hope you find something that works.

[elegantlion]

If he wants to be a scientist why not use that passion as a motivator, or at least a help. I'm sure you already know that as they reach the higher levels of science higher levels of math is required.

 

I'd probably approach it from the standpoint of "we're stopping here to solidify your math skills so it will be easier for you to study the science you need."

[Melissa in CA]

OK, I have not read all of the replies, but what *I* would do is put him in CLE Math. Have him take a placement test and place him accordingly. CLE has helped my ds concrete in all those nasties (fractions, decimals, etc) nicely. Lots of review and practice in those basics so that they seem to become 2nd nature.

 

This past year my ds placed on the border of CLE 6 and 7 (he had finished BJU 6 and was going into 7th grade). I went ahead and bought CLE 6. I then went through every booklet and only assigned the lessons that I knew he didn't have cemented in his lil pin head. He worked through those and finished CLE 6 within the first semester. We then moved easily into CLE 7. In 8th he will finish CLE 7 alongside BJU's Pre-Alg. I will then move him into CLE 8 and probably be finishing that up alongside BJU's Alg. 1 in 9th.

 

My son LOVES CLE math. Loves it. He tells all of his homeschool and ps friends how great it is. Now, don't get me wrong, he did well with BJU math and never complained, but something about CLE has empowered him and made him feel more math-smart. ;)

 

Oh, and since you've already purchased it, definitely use CLE's LA as well. My son very much enjoys it too. Just be sure you go over his lessons each day when grading so that you can catch anything he may have missed when analyzing sentences, etc. I feel grammar is very important to 'talk' through. My ds usually does well with grammar, but occasionally he'll completely miss the mark and talking through the sentence really hellps..."OK, lets first find the noun & verb, now are there any prepositions/prep phrases? Do you see any adjectives? Any adverbs? etc, etc. etc." It really depends on what the assignment is, but talking through a sentence will usually help my son figure out what he did wrong all on his own. Plus it is good practice in teaching him how to analyze. Also, having used EG in the past with my olders, I have to say that CLE is hands-down better and yes, more advanced.

 

Now, I personally would not use Saxon because I detest it, detest it, detest it! :lol: (Sorry Saxon lovers! hehe) And I personally (no offense intended) don't think a 5th grader needs to use Lials Basic College math. :001_huh: Give him time to mature a bit. There is nothing even remotely wrong with that. ;)

Edited July 8, 2010 by Melissa in CA

[Mandy in TN]

Where you made the mistake was calling him the grade ahead. (Is that what you're doing?) Kpzz, who used to post a lot on the accelerated board, had posts explaining how to decide whether to grade skip. There are times when this is helpful, but IN GENERAL it's wise to remember that MANY kids are advanced and that kids CAN plateau out or change pace later. In other words, I would start calling him by his age grade and correct this immediately. Just be upfront and bite the bullet. WTM gives you a concrete standard to compare to, and unless he's there or ahead on every single measure (amount and level of writing, etc.), I would call him by his age grade and be done with it.

:iagree:My youngest is 7yo. He is entering 2nd grade. He is a 2nd grader with a 2nd grade attention span and his little hands produce words no more quickly or with any more stamina than a 2nd grader. He just happens to be a 2nd grader that is mathematically accelerated.

 

My oldest turned 19yo just before he graduated from high school this May. I am so glad that he didn't graduate sooner. The emotional and academic maturity that he gained helped him receive a full tuition scholarship.

 

However, I also have some experience with calling a child a year ahead of age grade level.

 

My middle ds was on track to graduate from high school at 17yo, but we decided that an extra year of high school could mean the difference between a mature successful college student and a high school graduate who was lacking the emotional maturity to be at his best for college. I talked to ds last year about calling this past year 10th grade instead of 11th.

 

FWIW- ds used TT Alg2 this past year after having used MUS Alg2. I don't know that TT was any easier or more difficult than MUS, but ds needed this past year to relocate his brain after it fell out during puberty. It was a wise choice. This fall middle ds will be a mature, math-strong 11th grader doing pre-calc. Last year perhaps he could have been an immature 11th grader who stumbled through pre-calc. He was much better served by waiting.

 

Make sure your ds knows that he is a advanced 5th grader and not a young, average 6th grader. Then, look at TT6, it may keep up moral to have that big 6 on his work.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[corbie]

My dd 4th grade likes the format of Horizons too. I also noticed, however, that she would not understand problems in a different format, different from Horizons. CLE sounds like a good one. I'm going to look at it too. However, we have been using Math Mammoth with my older two dd's. 4th and 6th grade level. I don't think it says the grade level on the pages you print out. My oldest is going into 6th, but I had her start at 5th with MM. I explained to her that MM explains things differently, so we might need a little review. No big deal. She was fine. We ended up just verbally going through the explanations and getting MM6. I plan on using Horizons as more of a review, since it is so repetitive. Now I might look at CLE instead.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Beth,

I've heard of the Key To workbooks, but unfamiliar with them. When I went to CBD to see them, I only say the Key To Algebra books. Is that all they have or is there any other math in that series?

 

So sorry.... just found Key to Fractions and Decimals.... I'll check them out.

 

 

 

 

How about using the Key To workbooks for this year's math? They have several series that would cover the things he needs to review. He could even work through two or three of the series at a time...rotating between Fractions, Decimals, and Measurements, for instance. They are not at all babyish, and don't have any grade identifiers that I remember.

 

FWIW, I went through this same thing with my daughter. She was so good at several subjects that I pushed her to work above grade level. She was enthused about being "ahead" when she was young, but ended up crashing and burning spectacularly when she turned 14. The combination of acceleration and adolescence was just too much. She recovered and went on to graduate later than we originally planned (she was 18 instead of 16, what a tragedy.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Having learned that lesson the hard way, I'm now probably over-compensating in the other direction by going out of my way not to push my son too much. But we wouldn't be human parents if we didn't screw them all up equally, eh?

Edited July 8, 2010 by Sweet Home Alabama

[Melissa in CA]

Beth,

I've heard of the Key To workbooks, but unfamiliar with them. When I went to CBD to see them, I only say the Key To Algebra books. Is that all they have or is there any other math in that series?

 

So sorry.... just found Key to Fractions and Decimals.... I'll check them out.

 

Not Beth, but there are Key to Fractions, Key to Decimals, etc. These books are VERY BASIC.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Can anyone tell me if this series of math books could be done in one school year? What is a reasonable amount of time to expect to spend on each one?

[Mandy in TN]

Can anyone tell me if this series of math books could be done in one school year? What is a reasonable amount of time to expect to spend on each one?

4 Fraction books

4 Decimal books

3 Percent books

 

11 books at 3 weeks per book = 33 weeks with 3 weeks padding for any topics that need more time.

 

This should be doable.

HTH-

Mandy

[Karla in Oregon]

I empathize with what you are going through. My daughter has a September birthday. In some states she would be entering 4th grade next year, but in our district the cut off is Sept. 1. For many reasons, I decided to dub her a kindergartner a year early. I regretted this decision for a long time. Last year we repeated 2nd grade. I can hardly express what a HUGE relief this has been for me. She now excels at her math and she works ahead in science and language arts. Her standardized test score was fabulous. Really one of the best decisions I’ve made. She feels successful and is happy. I was able to explain to her that I had made a mistake in calling her X grade and I was merely correcting my error. I realize this simple explanation probably won’t work with your son. It was mostly math that she was struggling with at the time I made the decision, but making this simple change has made everything easier, I feel far less stress, the weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Good luck with your decision.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Bless you, Karla for this encouragement! I think we have the potential for the same kind of improvement!:001_smile:

 

 

 

I empathize with what you are going through. My daughter has a September birthday. In some states she would be entering 4th grade next year, but in our district the cut off is Sept. 1. For many reasons, I decided to dub her a kindergartner a year early. I regretted this decision for a long time. Last year we repeated 2nd grade. I can hardly express what a HUGE relief this has been for me. She now excels at her math and she works ahead in science and language arts. Her standardized test score was fabulous. Really one of the best decisions I’ve made. She feels successful and is happy. I was able to explain to her that I had made a mistake in calling her X grade and I was merely correcting my error. I realize this simple explanation probably won’t work with your son. It was mostly math that she was struggling with at the time I made the decision, but making this simple change has made everything easier, I feel far less stress, the weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Good luck with your decision.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Thanks, Mandy!

 

 

 

 

4 Fraction books

4 Decimal books

3 Percent books

 

11 books at 3 weeks per book = 33 weeks with 3 weeks padding for any topics that need more time.

 

This should be doable.

HTH-

Mandy

[Sweet Home Alabama]

My dh just got home from work, and as we sat and talked, we had an idea. Thought I'd ask to see if any of you could give some direction.

 

Our ds has the personality of a scientist. He constantly thinks in terms of analysis..... of EVERYTHING! He is very creative, and he has a great vocabulary. He likes to pretend in terms of being a professor (teaching) or a spokesman for a product (persuading someone in a commercial). He builds with Legos all the time, and he loves animals and dinosaurs. He loves to draw. He's talked about science and business in terms of a career when he grows up.

 

All this to say, it may help him to do some "out-of-the-box" math skill projects. One example: my dh and ds once built a bird house together. Ds had to measure, cut, glue, etc.... He LOVED this project. It gave him the opportunity to practice practical math skills while learning about bird habitats, etc....

 

Do you have any suggestions for project-based (unit-study approach) ideas that would either supplement math or take the place of curriculum?

My biggest problem with this idea is the NEED of a lesson plan. I am NOT an out-of-the-box person!

 

Any ideas?

 

I may need to repost on a new thread since this is a very new slant to my situation.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I have not read all the replies, but I would recommend you take a year off of Horizons math and do some Key To books. That way you can pinpoint what he needs help with and do just what he needs. Half way through this coming year I would try the LoF books again. Then next year you could go back to horizons 6th and go from there! I did see somebody recommend daily grams for english and I would also recommend that! If he is doing ok with the rest of his subjects keep them up but just at half pace incase you run into this with those later on. For this year I would focus more on math and english and slow the others down (maybe 2 days a week if you are used to 5?) and see how that goes!

 

ETA:: OK Now I am going backwards in my reading of the replies and see this has been suggested already. Just let HIM go at his pace in doing these!

Edited July 8, 2010 by wy_kid_wrangler04

[KathyBC]

What a fabulous idea! I have to say I'm slightly intimidated at the idea of designing such a year-long project myself. I absolutely believe it could be done, though.

 

Another idea that has always appealed to me, if you're thinking of taking a year to go "out-of-the-box", is the math history lessons at Living Math!:

http://www.livingmath.net/LessonPlans/LessonPlanInformation/tabid/1002/language/en-US/Default.aspx

 

Of course the amount of parental participation needed makes this course seem a little intimidating to me, too. :tongue_smilie: Pitiful. :D

[swainsonshawk]

Mallory,

 

I'm still weighing the issues of keeping him in 6th or putting him where he should be (age-wise) in 5th which would be more appropriate developmentally and for maturity reasons.

 

I held my son "back" in the fifth grade. He has a late summer birthday and WAS NOT ready for school at age 5, but I pushed him ahead grade-wise anyway. He was always behind a year or more academically and finally I just decided to hold him back in the 5th grade because I wanted to test him at the grade level he was working on and not the one he was "supposed to" be in.

 

I told him, and this is the truth, that I put him into kindergarten too early and it was my fault. He doesn't seem too bothered by it. If there are any subjects that he needs to re-do a year of, I would pick a different publisher so that he isn't doing the exact same thing over again. I'm sure you already thought of that!

 

Becky

[SapphireStitch]

Can anyone tell me if this series of math books could be done in one school year? What is a reasonable amount of time to expect to spend on each one?

 

When I used them with my daughter I used one topic per year because we used them to supplement Abeka math.

 

It's been long enough that I'm really not sure if it could all be done in one year. I imagine a great deal of it would be review for him, with the concepts just presented differently from what he's had in other curricula.

 

Key Curriculum Press has a website with some samples that might be helpful.

[PeterPan]

In our house books have numbers and your grade is your age (a social question). The two are not connected. So if she's doing the book 6 or 7 or 8 math, it really doesn't matter. Books have numbers. When people ask your grade, they're asking a social question, not what level of math you are. It might help if you disconnect them in his mind.

[EKS]

When my ds was in kindergarten he flew through his math, so I let him move into 1st grade math. Now he is 10 moving into 6th grade, and math is harder. Truly, it's a developmental/maturity issue.

 

 

 

The great thing about homeschooling is that you can tailor the speed to your child's needs. He needed to go faster in K and 1st and now he needs to go slower. No big deal.

 

At one point my son was three years ahead in math. He will end up being one year ahead (if calculus in 11th grade is one year ahead). We took some extra time with algebra I and are now taking more time with algebra II. We also spent a semester doing "fun" math (Mathematics: A Human Endeavor). I'm glad we sped through that initial easy stuff as it has given us time to slow down for the harder stuff.

[EKS]

My 7th grader is going to use Lial's BCM for pre-algebra. Of course, we could borrow her book to help explain the math. What a wonderful idea!

 

 

 

If you want to keep them in separate books, there is a Lial book that is like BCM but doesn't have the prealgebra part called Essential Mathematics.

[Rosy]

I wouldn't tell him (or yourself) that he's repeating 5th grade. I would say, "We need to work on some areas and this book will help us". Even if your state requires reporting where consistency is needed between what he's working on and the accepted "grade level", there is no need to tell him he's repeating a grade. He's not repeating a grade. He's working at his level. It could be that he shoots forward again at some point and masters everything he's been struggling with and then some.

 

I have a DD who is working at least 2 years ahead on every subject, a DS who is working 1 year behind on every subject, a DD who is all over the place (and is not being placed in the grade she's "supposed" to be in because her birthday is right on the cut-off), and a DD who hasn't started formal schooling yet but has taught herself to read short words. DD9 is in TT Pre-Al. DD8 is just starting MUS Beta. We're ALL over the place....that's the beauty of homeschooling. I just call them the grade that they would be in if they were in school (except DD6, who has the late August b-day). I wouldn't dream of telling DS that he's "still in 2nd grade". He knows (I think) that he's using 2nd grade books, I just tell him that he needs to learn what's in those books before we can move on. No one cares (mostly...I have my freak-out moments).

[SnegurochkaL]

I had a similar problem with my child. I started her with math at age of 3.5. She stumbled at some point and then was 2 grades ahead of her peers. She did math for 2 grade being in K but didn't read yet. She was a late speaker because of 7 languages exposure. It took her some time to figure out what language to use as a primary one. My husband was complaining that she was behind everyone he knew in reading so I started concentrating on LA and almost ignored all math for several months. As the result my daughter is behind in math where she supposed to be at her grade level and a good reader. I decided not to rush anymore and be sure she is very solid in what she is studying before moving ahead.

My suggestion is not to rush and let him to work on similar topics he had problems with but using a different resource.

As a math resource I suggest MEP enrichment program. It has a lot of workbooks at different levels and you can print out what he needs to work on. I am using it myself with my child to eliminate any blank spots of her math education. It is very advanced and more challenging than Singapore math. It is a supplementary program.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

[Mom0012]

I worry about this same thing happening with my daughter. She is just zipping through CLE Math, (which already seems a little ahead in the scope and sequence than other programs I have used) and now she's also almost a year ahead of her grade level. I'm really worried this is going to come back to bite us at some point. I think I'm going to start slowing her down some so she doesn't get more than 1 year ahead.

 

I haven't read all the replies, but how about using the Key To series to build mastery and bide some time. Then maybe he would be ready to start the next level of Horizons in January.

 

Lisa

Edited July 9, 2010 by LisaTheresa

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I worry about this same thing happening with my daughter. She is just zipping through CLE Math, (which already seems a little ahead in the scope and sequence than other programs I have used) and now she's also almost a year ahead of her grade level. I'm really worried this is going to come back to bite us at some point. I think I'm going to start slowing her down some so she doesn't get more than 1 year ahead.

 

I haven't read all the replies, but how about using the Key To series to build mastery and bide some time. Then maybe he would be ready to start the next level of Horizons in January.

 

Lisa

 

 

Thanks, Lisa!

I looked at everything that has been suggested yesterday, and boiled it down to either Key To series or CLE. I'm leaning toward CLE because it looks like it has more explanation.

 

I like CLE because it is clear and it speaks to the heart of our issues. I can present it quickly, and since he's already been exposed to the content, he'll probably say, "I've got it, Mom." Then he'll go do the work. If I chose something like BJU, which gets fantastic reviews, I think that program is more teacher intensive. I think it would feel like we were starting over with a new curriculum.

 

I do have a bit of a new problem though.... I'll be doing more skipping around than I ever intended in doing. From CLE, I've always thought we'd go back to the Horizons 6 book (which I have). But, after Horizons 6, I'll have to choose something else since that is the last book in that series. Once again, another change. I guess I need to put blinders on until we get over this current hump.

 

I had not considered, however, the Keys To followed by continuing Horizons in January. I think that would depend on readiness once again. If the Key To books had him ready for Horizons by then, maybe we could continue. Great idea!

 

I'll have to keep thinking about it.... I kind of like the thought of using CLE grade 5 for both language arts and math. I'm just very relieved that he won't have to struggle through grade 6 content. My next step will be trying to explain to him why we're not doing Horizons and why there is a "5" on the books he'll be using next year.... :001_huh:

[Mom0012]

Well, if you do use CLE, you may find that you really like it and just want to continue with it since it goes through level 8 and then pick an algebra program rather than returning to Horizons.

 

You can always try a lightunit or two and see how it goes.

 

Lisa

 

Thanks, Lisa!

I looked at everything that has been suggested yesterday, and boiled it down to either Key To series or CLE. I'm leaning toward CLE because it looks like it has more explanation.

 

I like CLE because it is clear and it speaks to the heart of our issues. I can present it quickly, and since he's already been exposed to the content, he'll probably say, "I've got it, Mom." Then he'll go do the work. If I chose something like BJU, which gets fantastic reviews, I think that program is more teacher intensive. I think it would feel like we were starting over with a new curriculum.

 

I do have a bit of a new problem though.... I'll be doing more skipping around than I ever intended in doing. From CLE, I've always thought we'd go back to the Horizons 6 book (which I have). But, after Horizons 6, I'll have to choose something else since that is the last book in that series. Once again, another change. I guess I need to put blinders on until we get over this current hump.

 

I had not considered, however, the Keys To followed by continuing Horizons in January. I think that would depend on readiness once again. If the Key To books had him ready for Horizons by then, maybe we could continue. Great idea!

 

I'll have to keep thinking about it.... I kind of like the thought of using CLE grade 5 for both language arts and math. I'm just very relieved that he won't have to struggle through grade 6 content. My next step will be trying to explain to him why we're not doing Horizons and why there is a "5" on the books he'll be using next year.... :001_huh: