Really Annoyed by Cub Scout Camp

[Caraway]

My son (age 6) just joined the Cub Scouts. We have been to one meeting, which was total chaos.

 

I told my husband that I though that we were going to need to switch packs/dens because it was that bad.

 

My husband the Eagle Scout reassures me that his memories of scouting aren't of the meetings, but of the camps and hikes that he did with his dad. We decide to stay put through the summer, participate in a twilight camp and an overnight camp. Both camps are multi pack things.

 

On the forms for the twilight camp it says that if your son is a Tiger than the parent pretty much just follows them around. However the adult needs to register as a "volunteer" so that all adults are accounted for in the group. Then emails begin showing up about volunteer requirements, which I pretty much just ignore because we aren't really volunteering, we are just parenting, right?

 

Last night (camp starts tonight) we get an email saying that all parents will be stationed in different sections, and that there would be some "down time". Then it listed things that could be done during said "down time". Following this it said (in bold, underlined, all caps) do not go to where your scout's den is participating because this "makes it hard" for the den leaders.

 

My husband and I decide to contact the camp leaders and our den leader to make sure that this doesn't apply to us. Our son is six, he does not know ANY of the boys or ANY of the adults. As a homeschooled kid he is not accustomed to being ditched at the door. The camp includes archery and guns, which we gave permission for, thinking that our son would be with a parent. And my husband has taken time off of work so that he can spend time *WITH* our son. We send a polite email.

 

Today we receive word that they *might* be able to put my husband in the same rank area as our son, but he COULD NOT be with our son. Apparently they are now considering the boys to be Wolves. The email also provided a very condescending message about how quickly children bond and after ten minutes our son would be fine, wouldn't it be nice if adults could be like that??? It irritates the hell out of me that we don't offer the same respect to kids that we do to adults. If I showed up at a camp with my husband and they separated us I would be furious! And I'm an adult!

 

I am really fairly angry about the whole thing. I am mad that I have paid $150 for a camp we will not be attending. I am mad that they could not be more flexible despite the fact that we contacted them privately to find a solution. I am mad that our whole freaking society thinks that you should drop your kid off at the door and be glad that you don't have to spend time with them.

 

Sometimes I think that I should just give up on trying to interact with mainstream society.

[starwarsmomma]

I've help run these before and we've NEVER done that!

 

I can tell you what "I" would do-- but again-- we have a differently run council...

 

I'd call the organizer, and let them you you will be in YOUR SON"S group. Happy to help the ENTIRE walking group as necessary, but still in constant view/interaction with your son. You understand your son's need for bonding with other boys, and the opportunities that involves, so you will respectfully stay out of the way, yet available to help the group however needed. As a incoming Tiger, this is all you, as a parent, feel comfortable with. And, you'd completely understand if they disagree with your wishes, if they would like to REFUND you all your money spent, and ya'll will all be happy to do something else as a family.

 

The fact is-- you will have (CHEAPER) opportunities throughout the year to do the bb and archery (CUBE), and all the other "crafts" they do. It's really no big deal, especially at that age.

 

Now-- on the unorganized den!!!! A few things-- it COULD be that the kids were excited for the first meeting-- they usually are. BUT (as a den leader for 3 dens myself) it's not difficult to keep them under control if you are organized. I would give it 5 or so meetings, if it's nothing but glitter glue, pompoms and hyperactivity, definately move to another den! No two dens and no two Packs are alike, and it's good to "shop around" to find one that is a good match for you and your family.

[Catherine]

We've been involved with scouting for years and have never had any kind of similar experience. Find another pack.

[Julie in Austin]

We've been in scouts for years, and have never had a problem having dh (or grandpa) be with one of our sons when that is what we wanted.

 

You might be able to have your council transfer your payment to another camp in your area (if there is one) that has different rules.

 

I think *eventually* you should aim for having your boy experience camp without mom/dad at his side, but not right off the bat if you aren't (or he isn't) ready for that.

[Mynyel]

I'd go anyway and dare them to tell me I can't be with my son. I'm payin' for it, I can sit with my son if I've a mind to!

[starwarsmomma]

Can you tell me what city your'e in?

[teamturner]

My boys (Webelos 2) just went to Twilight camp w/my dh. At that age/rank the requirement is one adult per 5 boys, so while there were several dads from our den, not all came. My dh registered as a "walking den leader/volunteer" and was not required to do anything except observe and be with our boys. There is no way he would have signed up for it (and missed work during a stressful time) if he wasn't going to be w/our sons. I can't imagine that a Tiger or Wolf is expected to not be w/their parent. That doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps this Twilight camp doesn't have enough volunteers to man all the stations/activities. I thought many of the activities were led by boy scouts rather than all adults.

 

I'm sorry it's not working out. Perhaps your dh should just go and be w/your ds and ignore what the leadership says.

[Tidbits of Learning]

My son (age 6) just joined the Cub Scouts. We have been to one meeting, which was total chaos.

 

I told my husband that I though that we were going to need to switch packs/dens because it was that bad.

 

My husband the Eagle Scout reassures me that his memories of scouting aren't of the meetings, but of the camps and hikes that he did with his dad. We decide to stay put through the summer, participate in a twilight camp and an overnight camp. Both camps are multi pack things.

 

On the forms for the twilight camp it says that if your son is a Tiger than the parent pretty much just follows them around. However the adult needs to register as a "volunteer" so that all adults are accounted for in the group. Then emails begin showing up about volunteer requirements, which I pretty much just ignore because we aren't really volunteering, we are just parenting, right?

 

Last night (camp starts tonight) we get an email saying that all parents will be stationed in different sections, and that there would be some "down time". Then it listed things that could be done during said "down time". Following this it said (in bold, underlined, all caps) do not go to where your scout's den is participating because this "makes it hard" for the den leaders.

 

My husband and I decide to contact the camp leaders and our den leader to make sure that this doesn't apply to us. Our son is six, he does not know ANY of the boys or ANY of the adults. As a homeschooled kid he is not accustomed to being ditched at the door. The camp includes archery and guns, which we gave permission for, thinking that our son would be with a parent. And my husband has taken time off of work so that he can spend time *WITH* our son. We send a polite email.

 

Today we receive word that they *might* be able to put my husband in the same rank area as our son, but he COULD NOT be with our son. Apparently they are now considering the boys to be Wolves. The email also provided a very condescending message about how quickly children bond and after ten minutes our son would be fine, wouldn't it be nice if adults could be like that??? It irritates the hell out of me that we don't offer the same respect to kids that we do to adults. If I showed up at a camp with my husband and they separated us I would be furious! And I'm an adult!

 

I am really fairly angry about the whole thing. I am mad that I have paid $150 for a camp we will not be attending. I am mad that they could not be more flexible despite the fact that we contacted them privately to find a solution. I am mad that our whole freaking society thinks that you should drop your kid off at the door and be glad that you don't have to spend time with them.

 

Sometimes I think that I should just give up on trying to interact with mainstream society.

 

If your son is 6 and in first grade, he is a Tiger and Tiger adults do not have to fill out adult leadership forms to stay with said Tiger at any event. Tiger adults are required to stay with their child.

I got hosed with the you need to fill out the adult form also last year and roped into a lot of things, but you need to politely inform them that you do not wish to be an adult leader and help at camp. You are going to enjoy scouts with your child. As a parent in cub scouts, you do not have to fill out an adult leader application in order to be able to participate with your child. You are your child's Akela. First and foremost, unless you want to be a volunteer with lots of responsibilities at all these things tell them you do not want to be an adult leader.

A Wolf is 2nd grade or 7 years old. At camp, stay with your boy. Do not agree to be a volunteer at all. It is not required to go and be with your child. If you do not want to be a leader, you need to say so now before you and your husband are put in charge of things at the camp.

Hope this helps and from the sound of the emails I would look at the other packs at the camp. It sounds like this pack will not be what you need.

The best advise my husband was given this year by a Dad whose son had done cub scouts was to make it about your boy. They will try to draw you in and get you to be a leader and ask and ask and more and more until it is not even about you and your child. I got drawn into this mentality this year and lost track of why we joined scouts. I enjoyed scouts the most when I was just a scout parent helping my son learn and grow. I would encourage you to separate yourself from the emails and what not and just make sure that it is about your son and your family getting the most out of scouts together.

[2_girls_mommy]

I almost posted this morning about a problem I am having with a church camp this week. Same type of issues.... I am so sorry.

 

Anyway, we belong to a Girl Scout troop that is very active w/a Boy troop that has lots of fathers involved. Most of the families have girls in our troop and boys in theirs. We meet the same nights, do field trips together, and have ceremonies together with the little guys. I am not a boy scout, so I don't know all of their terminology.. I have girls :)

 

Anyway, ours is a troop of mostly hsed boys run by homeschooled fathers, and I don't think they have that issue. I might look around too.

[Gooblink]

Funny, we were told we HAD to be with our boys when they were pre-Webelos. I agree that you should just insist on being with your son or find another pack.

[natalie]

We've been in scouts for many years. Our pack and district REQUIRED parents to be present until they reached Webelos level, and even then it was still strongly encouraged.

 

"Drop and runs" as they called them were NOT allowed. If you couldn't remain with your child you needed to find another one of the parents that would. In addition, each parent was allowed to be responsible for no more than 5 boys. At most events "tag-alongs" were allowed at a reduced cost which made it possible for a parent to attend even if there were non-scout siblings.

 

And WOW on the cost! Our twilight and day camps never ran more than $50.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

If this is the local council camp it has nothing to do with the pack. This is higher up than that.

In our district Tigers are required to have parents with them. It's a BSA rule. Wolves, on the other, hand do not. And yes, the ranks change at the end of the school year.

 

I would still send my son to camp and just follow him around no matter what anyone said.

[Carol in Cal.]

I will present the other side of the coin. As a Pre k teacher at church, we have found that it is not a good idea for parents to teach or volunteer in the area that their kid is in. The kid usually gets clingy and wants mom's attention ALL the time, which means that the parent who is supposed to be volunteering for the group ends up devoting all of their time to their child. The ones whose parents worry that their kid will freak out are the ones whose kid usually jumps right in and plays after their parent leaves.

 

Just sayin.

 

Our church preschool has a drop off and leave policy. The parent coop that DD attended as well has a 'you can stay whenever you want in addition to your one day per week commitment' policy. Both work, more or less. In general, in my observation, kids for whom having the parent around is sort of exceptional tend not to deal with it very well, and kids who are accustomed to it actually mostly ignore their parents.

[Caraway]

I think *eventually* you should aim for having your boy experience camp without mom/dad at his side, but not right off the bat if you aren't (or he isn't) ready for that.

 

I totally agree with this. As my husband put it, once you have been going for a while you know which parents are nice and which are a**holes, so you feel comfortable going to someone for help. If my kid were ten and knew the pack I would be fine being in a different area.

 

Also, if I had gotten the feeling that all of the parents really had their acts together I might feel differently.

 

I will present the other side of the coin. As a Pre k teacher at church, we have found that it is not a good idea for parents to teach or volunteer in the area that their kid is in. The kid usually gets clingy and wants mom's attention ALL the time, which means that the parent who is supposed to be volunteering for the group ends up devoting all of their time to their child. The ones whose parents worry that their kid will freak out are the ones whose kid usually jumps right in and plays after their parent leaves.

 

Just sayin.

 

I understand this, I really do. However I feel like this expectation should have been presented up front. Also, I feel like given our newness, and our politeness, we should have been given some accommodation. In addition we were specifically sending my husband to reduce this tendency.

 

If your son is 6 and in first grade, he is a Tiger and Tiger adults do not have to fill out adult leadership forms to stay with said Tiger at any event. Tiger adults are required to stay with their child.

 

 

Their stance is that now that it is summer the children have all "graduated" to being Wolves. No matter that a few weeks ago he was considered a Tiger and nothing has changed since then. :glare:

[Caraway]

kids who are accustomed to it actually mostly ignore their parents.

 

This is how it would be in our case.

[lionfamily1999]

Caraway is he starting 1st grade or finishing it up?

 

What camp is this? It sounds like an away camp, is it? Is this just a pack camp out?

 

Wow, I've never even heard of anything like this, I'm so sorry.

 

There HAS to be a misunderstanding somewhere. Oh, and first meetings are usually pretty hectic :p

[angela in ohio]

Their stance is that now that it is summer the children have all "graduated" to being Wolves. No matter that a few weeks ago he was considered a Tiger and nothing has changed since then. :glare:

 

 

A 6 yo should just be going into Tigers in the fall. It is for first graders, so 6 and 7 yo. I think he is in the wrong place, unless he will be turning 7 in the next month or two? The age range for Cub Scouts is 7 to 10 yo, according to the BSA papers we have, so I can't see how a 6 yo would be anything but a Tiger.

[starwarsmomma]

So what have you decided to do?

[mom2denj]

I, as a mom, was my son's camp leader until 5th grade. I never ran into anything like this. However, once they enter BOY SCOUTS, the parents cannot stay with them any longer. I would find another pack if possible.

[ShutterBug]

If your son is 6 and in first grade, he is a Tiger and Tiger adults do not have to fill out adult leadership forms to stay with said Tiger at any event. Tiger adults are required to stay with their child.

 

A Wolf is 2nd grade or 7 years old.

 

Tigers graduate to Wolves at the Blue and Gold ceremony, generally held in the spring, so technically, he probably is a Wolf.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I totally agree with this. As my husband put it, once you have been going for a while you know which parents are nice and which are a**holes, so you feel comfortable going to someone for help. If my kid were ten and knew the pack I would be fine being in a different area.

 

Also, if I had gotten the feeling that all of the parents really had their acts together I might feel differently.

 

 

 

I understand this, I really do. However I feel like this expectation should have been presented up front. Also, I feel like given our newness, and our politeness, we should have been given some accommodation. In addition we were specifically sending my husband to reduce this tendency.

 

 

 

Their stance is that now that it is summer the children have all "graduated" to being Wolves. No matter that a few weeks ago he was considered a Tiger and nothing has changed since then. :glare:

 

If he just joined at spring round up, he is a Tiger. He has not participated and crossed over to wolf. You need to look for a new pack. You will miss out on a lot and he will be expected to be way more independent as a Wolf than a Tiger. It sounds as if this is the case. It sounds like you just joined and participated in a den meeting.

I would just drop this pack. I would wait until Fall roundup and re-join with a different pack. He will be a Tiger if he is 6 yrs. old or 1st grade.

If they balk at this, take your Tiger book and show them he is 6 or 1st grade he is a Tiger. It is in the BSA books both kid's and adult leader's books.

[angela in ohio]

Tigers graduate to Wolves at the Blue and Gold ceremony, generally held in the spring, so technically, he probably is a Wolf.

 

My ds just did. But he is 7 1/2 years old, not 6. The OP said that they just joined.

[Caraway]

Can you tell me what city your'e in?

 

We are in California. I will PM you if you still want to know the city. :001_smile:

 

Caraway is he starting 1st grade or finishing it up?

 

What camp is this? It sounds like an away camp, is it? Is this just a pack camp out?

 

Wow, I've never even heard of anything like this, I'm so sorry.

 

There HAS to be a misunderstanding somewhere. Oh, and first meetings are usually pretty hectic :p

 

He is finishing first grade. And the meeting that we attended was the next to last meeting.... so they should have been in the groove. :001_huh:

 

So what have you decided to do?

 

We're not going. I am not sending my kid into a situation that neither of us would be comfortable with - I really don't want him to have a bad first experience with Scouts. Especially since the camp leaders have demonstrated to us that they are not that helpful. :glare:

 

I feel like we can't just show up and do whatever we want since we have already "clarified" the situation.

 

I, as a mom, was my son's camp leader until 5th grade. I never ran into anything like this. However, once they enter BOY SCOUTS, the parents cannot stay with them any longer. I would find another pack if possible.

 

Is this new??? Because with my husband and brother they really wanted the dads there because Scouts was considered a FAMILY activity.

 

I am not comfortable with any situation where the DEFAULT position is that I/my husband cannot be with our child if we wish. I promise you I am not some crazy smothering mother. But I find it.... odd/wrong/suspicious, that parents are denied access to their children.

[Tidbits of Learning]

We are in California. I will PM you if you still want to know the city. :001_smile:

 

 

 

He is finishing first grade. And the meeting that we attended was the next to last meeting.... so they should have been in the groove. :001_huh:

 

 

 

We're not going. I am not sending my kid into a situation that neither of us would be comfortable with - I really don't want him to have a bad first experience with Scouts. Especially since the camp leaders have demonstrated to us that they are not that helpful. :glare:

 

I feel like we can't just show up and do whatever we want since we have already "clarified" the situation.

 

 

 

Is this new??? Because with my husband and brother they really wanted the dads there because Scouts was considered a FAMILY activity.

 

I am not comfortable with any situation where the DEFAULT position is that I/my husband cannot be with our child if we wish. I promise you I am not some crazy smothering mother. But I find it.... odd/wrong/suspicious, that parents are denied access to their children.

 

Boy Scouts start in 6th grade/11 years old. They expect the boys to lead the pack then. In cub scouts, 6-10 years old, the parents are expected to lead the boys and help and participate.

[natalie]

I, as a mom, was my son's camp leader until 5th grade. I never ran into anything like this. However, once they enter BOY SCOUTS, the parents cannot stay with them any longer. I would find another pack if possible.

 

This must vary by pack/district/council as well. Our organization encourages parents to participate as well. They don't hang on every thing the boys do, but the parents are there, encouraging. It's somewhat like an extended family. All of our pack's parents attend pretty much every meeting, participate with the scouts in the various community projects, and take part in special activities together. The boys are encouraged to work on their own, but it's also seen as a bonding experience.

Edited June 24, 2010 by natalie
APOSTROPHE error!!

[Caraway]

Boy Scouts start in 6th grade/11 years old. They expect the boys to lead the pack then. In cub scouts, 6-10 years old, the parents are expected to lead the boys and help and participate.

 

My (second hand) understanding of Boy Scouts is that the boys take more of a leadership role, and can attend events and camps alone. But with my husband, brother, and BIL, the boys certainly weren't in charge. The adults facilitated, the boys had leadership positions, but the adults still provided leadership. It was a mentoring role. When my husband did events (like the 50 mile hike) his father went with him. This has been hammered into my mind because it is one of the few positive experiences that he had with his father. When my BIL was that age my husband went to be the "father".

[lionfamily1999]

Okay, if he's finishing 1st grade, then he IS moving up to Wolves. This school year he would've been a Tiger, but as soon as he's cleared for second grade (having completed first) he's considered a Wolf.

 

Oh, our last den meeting the boys played sardines and blind man's bluff......... the whole time.......... We'd already gotten badges and arrow points and planned for camp, so there wasn't really much to do :p

[Caraway]

My son will be a Wolf, because next year he will be in 2nd grade.

[MarinesWife]

Since he just finished 1st Grade, as of June 1st, he is now a Wolf (2nd graders).

 

According to day camp regulations, all adults helping at Day Camp must be registered. It has something to do with insurance and the use of whatever building they're in ... and I'm sure there are a ton of other reasons.

 

Day camp personnel are all volunteers just like most others in Cub Scouts. They're probably a little overwhelmed with questions and preparation. I'm not excusing their answers to you. Just saying.

 

I'd go anyway. Just show up with your son. Sign him in .. and enjoy the camp together. Once you and your husband are there, I doubt much will be said. They always need people to help!

 

And you could take it a day at a time also...

 

As far as regular den meetings go, ours get very chaotic by the end of the year. Most of the boys go to public school and there is just a "it's almost summer" excitement to the air. :)

[Tidbits of Learning]

My (second hand) understanding of Boy Scouts is that the boys take more of a leadership role, and can attend events and camps alone. But with my husband, brother, and BIL, the boys certainly weren't in charge. The adults facilitated, the boys had leadership positions, but the adults still provided leadership. It was a mentoring role. When my husband did events (like the 50 mile hike) his father went with him. This has been hammered into my mind because it is one of the few positive experiences that he had with his father. When my BIL was that age my husband went to be the "father".

 

Yes, there are still adult leaders. Some troops are very good about providing adequate leadership and opportunities for parents to be involved even at the boy scout level, but some do not. I totally agree with the pp that said it is important to shop around.

[Tess in the Burbs]

this is why we haven't done scouts yet. I head stories from others about camp. My neighbor's son is at camp this week learning all sorts of things and sharing with my son. The more I hear from the boys and the mom, the more we don't want to ever do scouting!!!

 

Sorry you had a bad experience and it's a waste of money. I too am learning that few people value their children and want to spend time with them. I did learn you can be a 'lone' scout and we are seriously considering it!

[lionfamily1999]

My son will be a Wolf, because next year he will be in 2nd grade.

He IS a Wolf, because his first grade year is finished and he completed it and will be moving up.

 

This took me a little while to figure out, but as soon as your son finishes a grade and KNOWS he will be moving up to the next grade he is considered that grade................................

 

iykwIm.

[Caraway]

He IS a Wolf, because his first grade year is finished and he completed it and will be moving up.

 

This took me a little while to figure out, but as soon as your son finishes a grade and KNOWS he will be moving up to the next grade he is considered that grade................................

 

iykwIm.

 

 

I get this. However, to ME, common sense would suggest that there is a difference between a wolf who has been in the pack and knows everyone, and a wolf who just arrived. My wolf should not be expected to be as comfortable with the group because he doesn't KNOW any of them! (Sorry I didn't mean to snark at you, I understand what you are saying. :001_smile:)

 

Either way I do not understand a "you CAN NOT be with your child" stance if this was not made clear in the beginning. Bolded and underlined to match their email. :glare:

[4besitos]

I have never heard of a Cub Scout Den seperating child from parents. In fact, a parent is required to be with a Tiger at meetings and events. That's the rules. New Wolves weren't treated any different.

 

from Natalie: Our pack and district REQUIRED parents to be present until they reached Webelos level, and even then it was still strongly encouraged.

 

This is the same in our area.

 

I would do as someone else suggested, Dad and son show up and participate together. My husband has been on many camping trips and has never been seperated from our son (who is now in Boy Scouts).

 

Unorganized Den.....if all the Den meetings continue to be chaotic, you aren't getting info you need or boys aren't progressing; talk with the Pack leaders. If it doesn't improve, find a new pack. We were in a "good" Pack (established, active) when my son started....but the Den leader was a flake (left, came back, left again) and the Pack didn't get on top of it quick enough. So my son did not have a very good beginning experience for the first 1 1/2 years. He definitely enjoyed the camps (my husband went on all of them) and the badges he earned...but I had to be a little more pushy and really make the Pack be accountable.

 

My next son is now ready to join a pack, we are choosing a different one due to the fundraising piece. The pack my oldest son was in did not allow the boys to fundraise into their own account. When he became a Boy Scout, we were immediately hit with a ton of expenses that the Pack had not prepared us for. Not only equipping a Boy Scout (head to toe, pack & camping equipment), but the summer camp fees were due the same month he crossed over.:tongue_smilie: The pack I have selected for my new Tiger lets the boys fundraise to their own accounts. This means that by the time he crosses over; he will have funds that will cross with him to Boy Scouts. I also spend time educating Webelos II that I meet on the long list of things they should be purchasing. :001_smile:

Edited June 24, 2010 by 4besitos
Wolves to Webelos

[natalie]

My (second hand) understanding of Boy Scouts is that the boys take more of a leadership role, and can attend events and camps alone. But with my husband, brother, and BIL, the boys certainly weren't in charge. The adults facilitated, the boys had leadership positions, but the adults still provided leadership. It was a mentoring role. When my husband did events (like the 50 mile hike) his father went with him. This has been hammered into my mind because it is one of the few positive experiences that he had with his father. When my BIL was that age my husband went to be the "father".

 

THIS is what it is like in our area. These Boy Scout troops and Cub Scout packs do still exist. I hope you can find one.

Edited June 24, 2010 by natalie
correction

[SailorMom]

OK - chiming in here...

I have been a scout leader for YEARS - den leader, Cubmaster (mastress...?) committee member, and the Webelos Director at Council Day Camp.

Both of my boys are now in Boy Scouts - in fact - they are at summer camp as we speak.

 

First - PLEASE - be nice to the leaders. We are ALL VOLUNTEERS.

 

Even the director of the Day Camp is a volunteer and has spent probably over 100 hours in the last couple of months organizing this on a bare bones budget. The director was also required to spend 4 days at unpaid day camp training, and has had parents angry at him/her for months. There will probably be not one single paid person at that camp the entire week, with the exception of a Council exec. who will stop by on Monday to be sure all the legal rules are being followed.

 

As for the meeting at the end of the year - by May, the boys that have been in all year have completed all the requirements and the volunteer leader has had a LONG year :) They usually have parties and play the last few meetings.

 

As someone who has been very active in numerous Cun Scout day camps - parents are REQUIRED in our council to volunteer at least one day. Usually they can choose how to spend that day - but a lot of them are "walkers" with their son's dens (at least two adults are needed with the kids at any time). As for not letting you stay, they can't do that. They can encourage you not to, and I suggest you see how he does on day two or three....Legally - you can go hang out all day. What they can ask, is that if you are going to be there all week that you fill out a volunteer form. Yes - they can do this. Here is why - it isn't because they want to rope you in to indentured scout servitude. It is to cover thier butts. Background checks are done and you are required to take online Youth Protection Training.

 

Our Council requires that anyone who has contact with the boys on an ongoing basis take Youth Protection Training. It takes about 20 minutes at the computer - really, no big deal.

 

Here's the bottom line - I don't think there is anything wrong with the Council (and day camp is run by the council, not the Pack). I think you are new to Scouts, and there is some miscommunication.

 

Day camps can run smooth as silk, or be disaters - this usually depends on how many times the selfless, abused, maligned day camp director has put themselves through it before they finally burn out. If you have a new director - expect some hiccups and be supportive, unless of course, you want to be director next year ;)

[Caraway]

OK - chiming in here...

I have been a scout leader for YEARS - den leader, Cubmaster (mastress...?) committee member, and the Webelos Director at Council Day Camp.

Both of my boys are now in Boy Scouts - in fact - they are at summer camp as we speak.

 

First - PLEASE - be nice to the leaders. We are ALL VOLUNTEERS.

 

Even the director of the Day Camp is a volunteer and has spent probably over 100 hours in the last couple of months organizing this on a bare bones budget. The director was also required to spend 4 days at unpaid day camp training, and has had parents angry at him/her for months. There will probably be not one single paid person at that camp the entire week, with the exception of a Council exec. who will stop by on Monday to be sure all the legal rules are being followed.

 

As for the meeting at the end of the year - by May, the boys that have been in all year have completed all the requirements and the volunteer leader has had a LONG year :) They usually have parties and play the last few meetings.

 

As someone who has been very active in numerous Cun Scout day camps - parents are REQUIRED in our council to volunteer at least one day. Usually they can choose how to spend that day - but a lot of them are "walkers" with their son's dens (at least two adults are needed with the kids at any time). As for not letting you stay, they can't do that. They can encourage you not to, and I suggest you see how he does on day two or three....Legally - you can go hang out all day. What they can ask, is that if you are going to be there all week that you fill out a volunteer form. Yes - they can do this. Here is why - it isn't because they want to rope you in to indentured scout servitude. It is to cover thier butts. Background checks are done and you are required to take online Youth Protection Training.

 

Our Council requires that anyone who has contact with the boys on an ongoing basis take Youth Protection Training. It takes about 20 minutes at the computer - really, no big deal.

 

Here's the bottom line - I don't think there is anything wrong with the Council (and day camp is run by the council, not the Pack). I think you are new to Scouts, and there is some miscommunication.

 

Day camps can run smooth as silk, or be disaters - this usually depends on how many times the selfless, abused, maligned day camp director has put themselves through it before they finally burn out. If you have a new director - expect some hiccups and be supportive, unless of course, you want to be director next year ;)

 

We have been nothing but pleasant and helpful to everyone involved.

 

I filled out the volunteer form, because I understand the issue of needing adults to be accounted for at the camp. You don't want random adults wandering around. My husband and I both took the Child Protection training, we both took the online camp training, and we both payed an additional fee to be a volunteer at camp.

 

I think our issues arose because we were told that filling out the form allowed us to be with our child helping the group as necessary. However NOW we are being told that this is not acceptable and we are to have no contact with our Scout. We would not have signed up for the camp if this had been made clear. We were told "Once they are Wolves you *can* drop them off, but parents are always welcome to stay!" Perhaps there is an implied "stay with OTHER people's kids..." in there, but I did not hear it.

 

I understand (and have worked in enough classrooms to have experienced) end of the year nuttiness. This was not the issue at the meeting I attended.

 

As far as volunteering, I have offered to run a den, I have offered to be the Secretary of the pack, etc, etc... I have not been taken up on any of these offers. (And let me add, since you don't know me... I am organized, nice, creative person and I have an events planning background. I am not some crazy nut that everyone is avoiding. :lol: )

 

Finally, SailorMom, since you lived in this area perhaps you have a pack recommendation.

[ZeldaRules]

People tend to be more aggressive in e-mail than in person. Perhaps they are misunderstanding something. You paid for this camp, and your child is losing the experience if you don't go because of a misunderstanding. I would go up the line of command from the person who e-mailed you and ask for clarification. If you don't like the answer you got, call or e-mail the person in charge of that person.

 

If you still get answers you don't like, go to the camp anyways if your husband isn't afraid of a little confrontation. If they tell you that you can't be with your son, tell them you have legal rights and can be there until you feel comfortable otherwise. It is easier to be aggressive in e-mail rather than in person. They will likely back down. I would also try to talk to other mom's in your den and get their take on the situation. Do they think there is miscommunication somewhere with what you are being told, how was it for them last year if their kids were Wolves last year. I'm sure you have e-mails that have others e-mail addresses on it from those in your den. I'd start there.

 

Don't give up yet. ;)

 

If all else fails, I would ask for the money back since you believe the rules were changed in the middle. I would call Headquarters and get this information clarified as well. I think someone in charge has their information wrong.

 

Good luck.

 

Vicki

[lionfamily1999]

I get this. However, to ME, common sense would suggest that there is a difference between a wolf who has been in the pack and knows everyone, and a wolf who just arrived. My wolf should not be expected to be as comfortable with the group because he doesn't KNOW any of them! (Sorry I didn't mean to snark at you, I understand what you are saying. :001_smile:)

 

Either way I do not understand a "you CAN NOT be with your child" stance if this was not made clear in the beginning. Bolded and underlined to match their email. :glare:

I understand :grouphug: No worries!

 

I'm still trying to figure out, is this an away camp (sponsored by your council)? Or, is this a camp with your pack, meaning ONLY your pack will be there?

 

The difference is, I cannot fathom an away camp (Council run) telling parents to buzz off. Most of the time they require parents everywhere. However, a pack camp is run differently (ime). With our pack, we would separate the boys from the parents for some of the learning stations. We did this, because it was too difficult to show the boys with all the tall parents around (and sometimes parents wanted to argue over the best way to do something, that's understandable, but usually time is also issue).

 

If this is pack run, have you seen the area they will be using? The chances are good that (like at the Chuckwagon events) the area will not be very large, you will be able to see your scout 99% of the time from one spot.

 

Now, I'm a leader :D and I have found that with events of that nature (pack led camp type things) newer scouts do BETTER without their parents BECAUSE they can't hide behind them. They stand on their own legs, they answer for themselves, and they learn. It's so hard to NOT mother your shy fry when he's surrounded by strangers, but ime, in scouting you're talking about people and kids who've all btdt. There are mean rotten kids (those are everywhere), but it's a scout event and the kids (most of them) take their pledges seriously. They even get achievement points by helping YOUR son acclimate.

 

I hope this helps.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I understand :grouphug: No worries!

 

I'm still trying to figure out, is this an away camp (sponsored by your council)? Or, is this a camp with your pack, meaning ONLY your pack will be there?

.

 

With the $150 charge I believe this is a district day camp.

 

Caraway - call the Council and discuss this with your District Executive. The DE needs to know how things are being handled and will advocate for you. The BSA doesn't want to lose scouts because of something like this. As a new parent you are probably experiencing a little shell shock. Joining scouts at the end of a year is never a good thing; things tend to be chaotic. This is why our district usually holds round ups in the early Spring or the Fall.

 

Please don't make your decision about the scouting program based upon this one experience. Cub Scouts is a fun program. Boy Scouts is even better. There are going to be good things and bad things about both, just like all things that involve volunteers, parents and kids (our local AWANA program has serious issues; and dare I mention Little League).

 

I still stand by what I said earlier - your DH should put on his cargo shorts and a t-shirt and take your son to camp.

Edited June 24, 2010 by The Dragon Academy

[WishboneDawn]

My son (age 6) just joined the Cub Scouts. We have been to one meeting, which was total chaos.

 

If they can't run a meeting you don't want to be involved in their camps and other activities.

 

I'm a Girl Guide leader and this year was a mess. I'm not going to say much because it would turn into a sever rant and vent about the other two leaders in my unit but suffice to say I'm moving on to be a Pathfinder leader and am unwilling to get involved with anything they plan next year. But we couldn't get a decent meeting together half the time and that inability was reflected in our camps.

 

I do suggest though that you go up the chain for a refund. Your leaders are accountable to someone who's accountable to someone else and you need to not simply get your money back but also let those in charge know how upset you are with your unit leaders.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

Finally, SailorMom, since you lived in this area perhaps you have a pack recommendation.

 

Just an FYI - switching packs is not going to fix the camping issue. Summer camp is a district event and all area packs are in attendance.

 

Finding a new pack may give you some peace about how meetings are run and allow you to find a place that is more your speed.

 

Can you start a homeschool pack in your area?

[FriedClams]

Since he just finished 1st Grade, as of June 1st, he is now a Wolf (2nd graders).

 

According to day camp regulations, all adults helping at Day Camp must be registered. It has something to do with insurance and the use of whatever building they're in ... and I'm sure there are a ton of other reasons.

 

Day camp personnel are all volunteers just like most others in Cub Scouts. They're probably a little overwhelmed with questions and preparation. I'm not excusing their answers to you. Just saying.

 

I'd go anyway. Just show up with your son. Sign him in .. and enjoy the camp together. Once you and your husband are there, I doubt much will be said. They always need people to help!

 

And you could take it a day at a time also...

 

As far as regular den meetings go, ours get very chaotic by the end of the year. Most of the boys go to public school and there is just a "it's almost summer" excitement to the air. :)

 

The voice of reason here. Go. Hang in the background. Help as needed.You'll both have fun.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

The voice of reason here. Go. Hang in the background. Help as needed.You'll both have fun.

:iagree:

[lionfamily1999]

With the $150 charge I believe this is a district day camp.

 

Caraway - call the Council and discuss this with your District Executive. The DE needs to know how things are being handled and will advocate for you. The BSA doesn't want to lose scouts because of something like this. As a new parent you are probably experiencing a little shell shock. Joining scouts at the end of a year is never a good thing; things tend to be chaotic. This is why our district usually holds round ups in the early Spring or the Fall.

 

Please don't make your decision about the scouting program based upon this one experience. Cub Scouts is a fun program. Boy Scouts is even better. There are going to be good things and bad things about both, just like all things that involve volunteers, parents and kids (our local AWANA program has serious issues; and dare I mention Little League).

 

I still stand by what I said earlier - your DH should put on his cargo shorts and a t-shirt and take your son to camp.

It could be a day camp too, I suppose. I've never been to one of those, but I do know that the one our pack uses doesn't have parents. They really expect this to be a drop off situation. We don't do it, because it's over an hour away and not worth it (imo), because it's too much like any old day care day camp.

[girligirlmom]

I am a Den leader moving from Tigers to Wolves this September in NJ. The Pack is not the same as the Camp in our area. I have heard of other Packs in our area that do not work on badges, even one that crossed over the boys to Boy Scouts when they had not yet earned Arrow of Light.

 

Our pack would not intentionally exclude parents at any time from being with their boys. Once one of the other Den Leaders did and when the Committee Chair & I asked her about it, it's because she did not have enough room for the parents and the boys. By the next week we had moved her to a different room and told the parents that they are not only welcomed, they are encouraged to either be in the room or volunteer to lead an activity or a meeting.

 

In the Tiger Den each family ran at least one meeting, and this made the boy the leader for the meeting. He got to pick the games, he got to lead the Pledge and the Promise, he got to explain the activity. Every single one of my families volunteered at least once although I did tell them they had to :D. It was the only way I was willing to take on the leadership with my husband at the beginning of the year. I told the parents that for Wolves we will do it again, with each family taking at least 2 meetings and all agreed they like it that way.

 

On all field trips at least one parent is required to be present. This is our Pack's rule, not Cub Scouts. On camping trips each Cub must have a parent along. Cubs must remain with their parents at all times on field trips and while camping.

 

My oldest is a new Boy Scout. In Boy Scouts parents are encouraged to participate, but it truly is a mentoring role, although the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters will teach certain skills, especially to the younger boys/newer scouts. My dh has been asked to be an Assistant Scoutmaster while he is also one of the Wolf Den Leaders and he has agreed to do it when he is not in our Den. We meet the same night but with only a 1/2 hour overlap so he would still have an hour with the Boy Scouts, and the whole time every other week when we don't meet.

 

My husband goes on all camping trips and my brother also went in June since there was a 25 mile bike hike for the Boy Scouts and a separate Cub Scout & non biking hike for the others. My brother went with my oldest biking and my husband stayed with my youngest.

 

I have been a leader at our church's VBS every year plus a few other VBS' in the area, and a teacher or helper in Sunday school and again I always welcome parent participation - unless they are on their cell phone in our meeting/class :glare: - which has happened.

 

We haven't done Cub Scout Camp, but I would have to disagree with anyone who tells me that I cannot be with my child at an activity. I would say something like, oh you prefer that I not stay, well that does not work with me and my family's beliefs, so I will be there the entire time. They might suggest that it is "best" fi I am not but too bad. BTW I have 1 children with food allergies (youngest) and so it's a life or death situation with us, but I don't think I would be different if it wasn't for the allergies.

 

Now if my child asked me to not stay in his/her group, and I was comfortable with the leaders and was comfortable with my child being with them, I would not volunteer their group. So far my children prefer to be with me most of the time. We also participate in a Speech Group and my dd does not like me in the room when she gives her speeches so I specifically help in one of the other groups. Sometimes the boys want me, sometimes they prefer I am not with them and I am flexible in that regard.

Edited June 24, 2010 by girligirlmom

[justasque]

Haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to mention that in my son's Boy Scout troop, all of the dads are welcome at any trip, and unless they have volunteered to be responsible for others, they don't have to be in any particular place - they can be with their kiddo. Same is true for summer council-run camp. My ds is 17.

I would keep asking other people until you get someone who says yes. Better yet, don't ask, but explain that your dh will be going with your ds, and not volunteering. Explain that they misunderstood - he is not going as a volunteer. If you feel comfortable doing it, mention that your son has "special needs" (he specially needs to be with his dad! :)), and that you feel it will be easier all around if his dad is there to help him out.

And yes, shopping around for a troop is key.

 

Another possibility would be to make sure your ds knows the dads who are in charge of where he will be, and that he is comfortable with them. Honestly, though, at 6 or 7, I'd make sure dad was with him, because there is no reason not to.

[mom31257]

Find another pack. Our ds was a Tiger Cub this past year, and his meetings were wonderful. They were well organized and full of activities that helped earn awards. We've been to the camps and never been asked to be somewhere different than our son. That's one thing I liked about Cub Scouts. A parent/guardian HAS to accompany each child to everything.

[*Jessica*]

Since we're on the subject of Scouts......(OP, I apologize for the thread hijacking!)

 

How do I sign my son up? We don't know anyone with children in our town that we could ask (although he starts soccer next week so that will hopefully be changing!) Thinking back to my brothers and my scouting experiences, we found out through school. Since my son is obviously not in school, I don't know what to do to sign him up. Do I just fill out the forms and mail them in and someone will contact me? Or do I have to find out who the local leader is and contact them? Nik is 6, turning 7 in October.

 

I was a Brownie in grade school, and that was nice since my mom was the leader. I was also an Explorer in high school, and it was one of the best experiences of my life. I want my boys to have that experience.

 

Thank you!

[lionfamily1999]

Since we're on the subject of Scouts......(OP, I apologize for the thread hijacking!)

 

How do I sign my son up? We don't know anyone with children in our town that we could ask (although he starts soccer next week so that will hopefully be changing!) Thinking back to my brothers and my scouting experiences, we found out through school. Since my son is obviously not in school, I don't know what to do to sign him up. Do I just fill out the forms and mail them in and someone will contact me? Or do I have to find out who the local leader is and contact them? Nik is 6, turning 7 in October.

 

I was a Brownie in grade school, and that was nice since my mom was the leader. I was also an Explorer in high school, and it was one of the best experiences of my life. I want my boys to have that experience.

 

Thank you!

Follow the link :D

 

Errrr, I assumed you're in the US and it's too late to check now...