Anyone else have issues like this?

[Momling]

My 8 yr old daughter is an incredibly bright child (and fwiw officially 'gifted' according to the WISC and local PS). She's a person who looks at things from a wide perspective and makes lots of connections between topics. She's really a very deep thinker and subtle and mature in her interactions with other people. She also very witty and has a wry sense of humor. All of this is great...

 

The problem is that she seems to be both a perfectionist and somewhat... unwilling to work, which is a difficult combination.

 

So, for instance, she loves all subjects which require her to just read and soak up ideas... things that come easy to her. But... every time she encounters anything that requires work or memorization or practice and she declares (between dramatic sobs) that she's "bad at it".

From an educational standpoint, the biggest problem is math. She's actually quite good at math, but she's decided that she's horrible at it. I've tried giving her easier math to build her confidence and strengthen her arithmetic skills, but she tells me it's boring. I've tried giving her harder math to give her challenge, but she tells me she's bad at it.

 

Currently we're working from Math Mammoth blue on various topics around the 3rd/4th grade level... which she hates. The only interest I've been able to find is with the Murderous Maths books and LOF. Murderous Maths are fun books, but not really a curriculum... and LOF is too advanced for her I think. We did sample the first five chapters of LOF, which she loved and did okay with, but I don't think she's ready to tackle the rest of the book just yet (I have yet to introduce long division... :scared:).

 

For the record, she's also decided that she's inherently bad at typing, handwriting, singing, gymnastics (particularly cartwheels)... really, any skill that she is not immediately successful at, she has decided that she is just naturally bad at it.

 

So... any suggestions for how to approach this learning style? Advice? Commiseration?

[Laura Corin]

Very familiar. I've got one of each though: the boy who is in floods of tears if he can't understand things instantly; the boy who considers anything that requires work to be 'not for him'. Growing up has helped a bit. Repeated readings of 'The Little Engine That Could' has helped a bit. Mostly, it's just been patience.

 

Laura

[2cents]

My oldest daughter is like this. She is very bright but is hard on herself if she misses any of her math problems. Starts getting emotional and frustrated when it isn't IMO a big deal. For her is seems to be. It is something we work on.

[KS_]

My ds is like this (he's 11 now). It has gotten better with patience and maturity, but so many things come easily to him, that he freaks out a little and thinks he's dumb/untalented/etc., when he encounters something that's difficult. I had some of those same tendencies when I was a kid (not to the extent ds has, or at least I don't think so ;)), so at some level I get where he's coming from and have tried to use that to coach him through difficult things. I've discussed with him that he is a bright kid, however not everything is going to come easily to him and some things he's going to have to work hard for, and that doesn't mean he's suddenly stupid.

 

It is getting better (ask me again when school starts up in the fall. . .), but school has always been our biggest difficulty, probably mainly because of his personality.

[Dmmetler]

My DD seems to trend in that way, too. I see it most in piano lessons, so far, as well as in math facts. So far, I'm doing a lot of memorization to music for facts, by the "put them on the iPod and listen in the car" method, but I know that won't work forever. If anyone has any surefire solutions, please let me know!

[kmacnchs]

The problem is that she seems to be both a perfectionist and somewhat... unwilling to work, which is a difficult combination.

 

yup

 

I've tried giving her easier math to build her confidence and strengthen her arithmetic skills, but she tells me it's boring. I've tried giving her harder math to give her challenge, but she tells me she's bad at it.

 

I did the SAME THING!

 

So... any suggestions for how to approach this learning style? Advice? Commiseration?

 

Mainly commiseration here...I am still going through morning sickness so school is 1 day a week or nothing and just about everyday she says, "It's good we did not do school today" It just breaks my heart :confused: She still reads to me everyday (science books, literature, etc.) - what she means is "I'm glad we did not do math today."

 

The thing is, reading was a struggle when she was learning as well (b/c she is such a perfectionist) but once she learned, she was over that hump and now she LOVES reading. She will never be over the math *hump* b/c she will never be "done" learning math...will this always be a struggle? (we are only finishing 1st grade) This is not a retoracle - I am really wondering if anyone has btdt...

[Luckymama]

I don't know if I should let you with younger kids know this but...................it doesn't really go away! Ds17 with AP Physics C (the one with calculus) this past school year acted JUST LIKE he did when faced with reading more than one sentence per page as a little guy. Oh the drama! It has gotten easier, though, because now he grouses about the issue, slams books and notebooks around, stomps to the fridge for a snack, then gets to work. When he was little, he would just dissolve in a flood of tears and refuse to do attempt the work the rest of that day.

[2smartones]

:bigear:

 

I could've written the original post almost word for word with one of my boys and, specifically, math. He will break down, scream, throw things, say "I hate math", etc. The thing is... according to standardized testing... he's way, way, WAY ahead (6-8 years ahead). I was literally shocked at his math score because his work isn't anywhere close to that. I thought it couldn't possibly be right, so I started challenging him a bit. When I gave him something he could see (geometry, word problems, figuring things out without using "math" ... so he thought), he was right where the test said he was. When I went back to hard facts and plain old numbers, it was like the "terrible 2's" had returned or something! :001_huh: He's a year behind most of his other subjects when it comes to math. :confused:

 

I wish someone really would invent a chill pill! LOL!

Edited June 18, 2010 by 2smartones

[MissKNG]

My mathy big girl is also hard on herself when it comes to math - she'll yawn and suddenly be tired if she thinks we are doing something she may miss. It bothers me but I back off. Then a few days later, she'll whiz through it! So I don't know what she is thinking.

 

Some things I recently have done:

 

I bought The Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat. My big girl loves math concepts but can't stand working on arithmetic. She enjoys hearing about the concepts in this book even though I think most go over her head (I think it's for 3rd grade to 6th grade math).

 

I would check into MEP, perhaps. The arithmetic work is a bit more "hidden". And there is a lot of problem solving involved. My big girl is really enjoying 1a right now.

 

One other thing...have you done placement tests? We were working with Horizons K a couple of months ago and my big girl was complaining about it - it was "baby math". So I did three different placement tests: Horizons, Saxon and Singapore. She placed into Horizons 1, Saxon 2 and Singapore 1a. So I dropped Horizons K and went to 1st grade math fully. She is happier and, in about a month and a half, is about half way through 1st grade math based on state standards. Now, I am a math placement test advocate!!

 

ETA: My big girl is NOT an "I hate math" kind of kid. She would work on math 7 days a week if I would let her.

Edited June 18, 2010 by MissKNG

[kbed0849]

Your description could have been describing my DS. He is easily frustrated and says, "my mind, my mind...God gave me a bad mind" when he is frustrated or has too many distractions. Rightstart math has been a great find for us. You can turn a great many lessons into games (or they have a game already in them). There is not too much busy work. It has definitely helped us to move forward without the drama!! I wish I had more advice. I am hoping this is just a normal part of being "gifted". I think that for my son some of the repetition (for the sake of repetition or "mastery") actually leads to frustration and errors when, in reality, he has understood the concept. His little brain just wants to move to something else. So, if you haven't tried it, I would try RightStart (or at least look into it!!). Good luck, Kim

[Amber in AUS]

I can relate too. My DD is right there with perfectionist and not willing to work if it doesn't come easily. Unfortunately she is younger and so far i am yet to see a solution. Our most recent upset was over learning to ride her bike. She was in tears and fits of frustration and 'I can't do it!' but i kept telling her 'You CAN do it, you can try' and in only a couple of weeks she CAN ride her bike without training wheels.

 

It is so hard when so many things come so easily. I am always looking for things i think she will struggle with to try and show her how 'average' people need to work at that skill to be successful and sometimes she will have to work at it too.

[TKDmom]

:bigear: sounds like my dd. Exactly.

[catz]

Both my kids are just like this! They are not the dive in and embrace new concepts kind of GT. They both resist learning things that seem "hard" initially. And a lot of times those are things that require a 2 minute explanation!

 

I've found that music lessons have helped them both a lot. They "get" to accept criticism from a mentor, they are continually challenged, and they can see the benefits of trying and mastery quickly. My 9 yo has come a LONG way in math this year. He used to look at those long singapore word problems and almost lose it last year. This year, he can dive in and organize his thoughts. I really try to make it "ok" not to know everything and to ask questions and be challenged.

 

I think this is a long term thing that you just have to keep chipping away at and hopefully when they get to really challenging material they'll be ready to dive into it. That's my hope anyway.

[skaterbabs]

Dot tends to be the same way, I make a point of telling her (because I'm mean that way lol) that I will NOT allow her to simply coast through. She will work hard and she will do her best - nothing less is acceptable.

 

Yesterday she failed a math quiz, not because she didn't know the material but because she was goofing off. Guess what she will get to do on Monday... Retake the quiz.

 

She's 6.5, and I refuse to allow her to get to the point I was in high school where she doesn't know HOW to learn anything that is difficult.

[Arch at Home]

We deal with this a lot. For that reason we do two Math programs. Once we hit a wall in one program, we switch to the other with a different sequence of topics and approaches. By the time we have gotten back to the first the topic in question is old hat.

 

This is definitely an important skill to learn. We do My Pals are Here Science for this very reason. The material is basic but the application really pushes my kids. I also encourage them to push themselves in their outside activities. My oldest is in ballet which though she likes does not always come easy and incremental progress can be seen.

[MelanieM]

Your daughter sounds a lot like me as a child, so I'd like to tell you a few things from that perspective...

 

When you are that young and feel stressed about not being able to do something perfectly right away, pushing through it and being forced to do it anyway does not really teach you what people hope it will teach you. (Namely, that it's ok not to be perfect and everyone has to work at things, etc.) Instead, it just keeps reinforcing what you "know" to be true: you really aren't so hot at this thing you don't enjoy, and you just need to do the bare minimum you can to get by so you can forget about it! (Not the foundation we want to grow on for mathematics, or really any subject!)

 

On the flip side, finding something that you love to do and that naturally takes some effort inherently teaches you the benefits of practice in a way that is positive and actually makes sense! So if you want your child to learn that practice improves skills, point that out as it relates to things she enjoys and doesn't buck against, i.e. "wow, do you remember when you first started reading, and you were working with these early readers? Now you are just whipping through those chapter books! All that practice has really paid off!" (But don't then go on to try to relate that back to whatever else you think she should practice... let her draw the conclusion herself.)

 

If this were my child, I would completely drop formal math studies right now (gasp!) and focus on the fun and beauty of mathematics. Your daughter is only 8 yrs old, and she's got lots of time to figure out that she might need to do something she doesn't enjoy for the greater goal (in case she simply turns out not to enjoy math). In the meantime, there's a chance for her to discover a love of math in new and interesting ways.

 

So, I say put down the math curriculum and focus on living math for a while; there are many wonderful books she could read that will help her learn a lot of awesome math concepts, make some connections, and perhaps find a passion for the subject that gives her an internal incentive to go deeper.

 

For what it's worth, I am now an adult that understands the benefit of practice, and fully gets the fact that I don't need to be perfect at something the first time I try it. In fact, I even enjoy revisiting things that I always thought I was bad at and really challenging myself to grow and learn more. So even perfectionist children who avoid things they feel are too challenging can grow into capable adults that aren't afraid to try new things. ;)

[Momling]

Your daughter sounds a lot like me as a child, so I'd like to tell you a few things from that perspective...

 

When you are that young and feel stressed about not being able to do something perfectly right away, pushing through it and being forced to do it anyway does not really teach you what people hope it will teach you. (Namely, that it's ok not to be perfect and everyone has to work at things, etc.) Instead, it just keeps reinforcing what you "know" to be true: you really aren't so hot at this thing you don't enjoy, and you just need to do the bare minimum you can to get by so you can forget about it! (Not the foundation we want to grow on for mathematics, or really any subject!)

 

On the flip side, finding something that you love to do and that naturally takes some effort inherently teaches you the benefits of practice in a way that is positive and actually makes sense! So if you want your child to learn that practice improves skills, point that out as it relates to things she enjoys and doesn't buck against, i.e. "wow, do you remember when you first started reading, and you were working with these early readers? Now you are just whipping through those chapter books! All that practice has really paid off!" (But don't then go on to try to relate that back to whatever else you think she should practice... let her draw the conclusion herself.)

 

If this were my child, I would completely drop formal math studies right now (gasp!) and focus on the fun and beauty of mathematics. Your daughter is only 8 yrs old, and she's got lots of time to figure out that she might need to do something she doesn't enjoy for the greater goal (in case she simply turns out not to enjoy math). In the meantime, there's a chance for her to discover a love of math in new and interesting ways.

 

So, I say put down the math curriculum and focus on living math for a while; there are many wonderful books she could read that will help her learn a lot of awesome math concepts, make some connections, and perhaps find a passion for the subject that gives her an internal incentive to go deeper.

 

For what it's worth, I am now an adult that understands the benefit of practice, and fully gets the fact that I don't need to be perfect at something the first time I try it. In fact, I even enjoy revisiting things that I always thought I was bad at and really challenging myself to grow and learn more. So even perfectionist children who avoid things they feel are too challenging can grow into capable adults that aren't afraid to try new things. ;)

 

Thank you! I think you've got a wonderful perspective. The goal is greater than just memorizing division facts or whatever... the goal is to have a child who can communicate in math and (ideally) can see the elegance of math. She's got a lifetime to get there. And you're right that if she can provide her own motivation, it'll be a far better journey than if I have to drag her through a subject she feels is unpleasant.

[Osaubi]

My ds is like this. I think he gets it from me :(

 

Sometimes it is a matter of pushing through so they know they can do something. I sometimes wish someone would have done that with me. when he does get it I make a really big deal out of it. I tell everyone how well he did and how proud I am that he stuck with it. Other times it is about letting go and revisiting it at a later time.

 

I would recommend RightStart math games or living math. Even getting educational games from some place like Rainbow Resource or Learning Resources.

 

I have had to do that with RightStart a few times. When we were on level B and had finished a lesson my ds would go to his room and play. I guess he would think about math when he was playing b/c he would come back to me a couple of hours later and say I think I got what they were saying in math today. That is when I realized that it takes him time to process the information I have given him and to slow down until I see that light bulb go on.

[Nan in Mass]

This is a great post! I have older children who could have become out-of-control perfectionists but didn't. I know of two things that helped them: me and gymnastics. Neither of those would help anyone else, so I wasn't going to post, but this post helped me to see why gymnastics helped in my children's case. Mine loved gymnastics. In boys gymnastics at our gym, the boys were only split into a few classes, so mine were taking turns with older students who were more advanced than they were. From the very beginning, they had ample opportunity to observe other older perfectionist children go through the cycle of trying to do something, failing, getting frustrated and sometimes crying, not being allowed to stop just because they were frustrated and crying (but sympathetically so - more of a "hey, pull yourself together there, it will be ok" than a "don't be a baby"), triumphantly succeeding in a wobbly sort of way, and then finally having it become automatic and easy and instantly being given something new to be frustrated about. Every single person in their group was at some stage of this process all the time. And almost every single one was a high strung perfectionist because it seems like the ones who aren't don't have the drive to succeed at such a difficult sport (hence all the tears and frustration). Even worse, what they were trying to do was physically scary, especially if they had already attempted it and whacked themselves. Fortunately, the coaches had been through it all themselves and were good at it. Gymnastics worked for my children because, as the previous post points out, they wanted to do gymnastics. It would have been very hard to get them through to the higher level of gymnastics if they themselves hadn't wanted to do it. They learned the whole learning cycle in gym, breaking a big goal into smaller ones and practising and being bad at something at first and all that. As they grew older, they were able to apply that to the rest of their lives. They are still reluctant (naturally) to do it when it is something they don't see a use for or dislike, but my older two (20 and 23) are capable of making themselves do it when they want to with the minimum of personal frustration. They are as patient with themselves as you could wish. They have come so far. So I want to back up what the previous poster said. She is right. If you can find something that your daughter likes to do, not something she wants to be in the far future, but something she actually enjoys doing bits of already, something that has lots of room to grow and get better with practice, use that to teach her how to learn something hard. Give her lots of time to work on it. Be sympathetic with her frustration and help her and encourage her to keep going. Expect it to take years. It would help to find examples of people learning her thing for her to watch, so she knows that when she sees someone who can do that thing, that they weren't just born being able to do it. It would help to watch them over time, to track their learning, so it is obvious how far they have come and how they got there. It would also help to model the process yourself. My children saw me learning new pieces of music, and I'm sure that helped.

-nan

[LibrarianMom]

Thank you for this thread which describes my dd as well. Math is the one subject that she balks at insisting she's "no good at it" and that it "isn't her thing." It's reassuring to know that she isn't alone in this tendency. I appreciate the ideas shared here as well.

[GeoMamma]

I decided I wasn't good at maths because I couldn't memorize times tables, but I can do calculus. A lot of bright/gifted children find rote learning and repetition physically painful. (Yes, really. Seriously, my skin crawls just thinking about learning my times tables.) I know it's not what we are told in school but really you DON'T NEED TOTAL RECALL in maths, you need the concepts. Besides, smart kids are smart enough to learn it if they see they need to.

 

Perfectionism is REALLY common too. In fact, it is often listed as one of the identifying characteristics of gifted children.

[MissKNG]

I decided I wasn't good at maths because I couldn't memorize times tables, but I can do calculus. A lot of bright/gifted children find rote learning and repetition physically painful. (Yes, really. Seriously, my skin crawls just thinking about learning my times tables.) I know it's not what we are told in school but really you DON'T NEED TOTAL RECALL in maths, you need the concepts. Besides, smart kids are smart enough to learn it if they see they need to.

 

Perfectionism is REALLY common too. In fact, it is often listed as one of the identifying characteristics of gifted children.

 

I love reading stuff like this...great encouragement because my big girl kind of shuts down when I attempt math facts yet she loves working through the problem solving concepts of MEP. Moving on without absolute math fact memorization is something I'm really trying to do since math fact drill WAS "drilled" into my head in PS!

[Donna]

This is a great post! I have older children who could have become out-of-control perfectionists but didn't. I know of two things that helped them: me and gymnastics. Neither of those would help anyone else, so I wasn't going to post, but this post helped me to see why gymnastics helped in my children's case. -nan

 

Nan,

 

I agree. Any activity that they like to do but which takes work to learn will help with perfectionism. My dd was a horrible perfectionist at 3yo. She began learning violin and would avoid anything that took more than 2-3 tries to learn. Sitting on the floor or talking about anything under the sun were her best avoidance strategies. Talking a lot about "practicing to make things easier" rather than "practice makes perfect" helped as did allowing her to make mistakes and correcting in a gentle, positive way..."That sounded nice but could you try it more like this." Letting her see me make mistakes and learn to do something I had a hard time learning (I learned Twinkles while she did) also made a big difference.

 

There is a book called "Mindset: The New Psychology of Success" by Carol Dweck which was very insightful concerning perfectionism and parental responses.

 

I credit violin with "curing" her perfectionism. I use it as an example whenever that perfectionism attempts to appear in other situations. I say things like, "Remember when you couldn't do _____ then you practiced really hard and now it's easy?" It always works!

 

As for math facts...I didn't make dd learn them in a drill sort of way. (As someone who checked her addition on her fingers through 2 college calculus classes, I didn't see the need. I also felt it painful to be made to memorize anything rote.) We just keep moving ahead conceptually and if she wants to use her fingers to add or skip counts to get her multiplication answers, I don't have a problem with it. She is memorizing them as she uses them more and sees the need to do things more quickly.

Edited June 22, 2010 by Donna

[Nan in Mass]

As for math facts...I didn't make dd learn them in a drill sort of way. (As someone who checked her addition on her fingers through 2 college calculus classes, I didn't see the need. I also felt it painful to be made to memorize anything rote.) We just keep moving ahead conceptually and if she wants to use her fingers to add or skip counts to get her multiplication answers, I don't have a problem with it. She is memorizing them as she uses them more and sees the need to do things more quickly.

 

LOL I used my fingers in calc, too. It takes me forever to memorize anything. We've avoided it as much as possible. I think using my fingers and all during elementary school figuring out my times table by making a box of dots helped my math abilities. I had a good solid idea of what the math meant. I never had any problem with math once I got past the age when they tested us on our math facts. Part of the way I "fixed" my math-struggling middle child when I pulled him out of ps in 5th grade was to make him go back to counting on his fingers and drawing pictures. He was amazed because he had been scolded in school for doing it. So sad. He also tripled his reading speed in one fell swoop in 12th grade by going back to running his finger along under each line. The speed-reading program from the library suggested it. Boy was he furious with the first grade teacher who had stopped him from doing that.

 

-Nan

[papillon]

I've got one, too, my ds9, and it absolutely wears me out at times. My dd20 was like that, too, when she was younger, but as she got older, she became more self-aware and found ways to deal with these feelings effectively herself. Naturally, she is not as intense these days (well, most days, that is :)), but she is still a perfectionist. Maturity is a wonderful thing.

[Rivka]

There is a book called "Mindset: The New Psychology of Success" by Carol Dweck which was very insightful concerning perfectionism and parental responses.

 

I also recommend Carol Dweck's work. I think she has the right of it, although I'm finding it hard to integrate into my parenting.

 

Here's an article in NY Magazine that gives an excellent overview of her work: http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

[skaterbabs]

Nan made a good point - sports are really helpful with those kids who tend to be perfectionists.

 

Dot figure skates, and is learning that she must work hard to learn new "tricks". She desperately wants to learn her waltz jump and crossovers, but there are more basic skills that have to come first. She's getting ready to move up a level because she's not being sufficiently challenged at the level she's currently at even though she doesn't have every skill 100%. She'll move into a class in which she will once again be the least accomplished skater in the class, and she'll have to work hard to keep up with the "big kids".

[Lovedtodeath]

According to my standardized scores I was way, way, way ahead... but math was a struggle for me. It took me a lot longer than it took my peers.

 

Now DD has had the same pattern of attitudes. Very bright and unwilling to do the work. Turns out that she has a learning disability. I think I had it too. Just throwing it out there.

[MadSci Mama]

Reading your post sounds just like our past week. Isn't it lovely? You'll love this: the first time it happened, we fussed for 3 hours over a 5 minute test. We covered everything from going back to public school or just do the work cause that's life. Yeah, it wasn't a great parenting moment. After 3 hours! 3 hours we fussed, and she finally took the math test she thought she wouldn't be able to do and got 87 out of 100 done. And once the timer went off she started laughing and stomping around mad, acting llike Jekyl and Hyde at all the same time and declared: "Mom, all that dang fussing for 3 hours for a darn math test that was super easy. What a waste!"

 

It's a phase, isn't it? It's something that we've all experienced whenever we learn something new. It'll be a challenge, but it will be better to work through it at home, than kids getting in trouble for "acting out" in class or not doing the work for class.

 

Hang in there. And make sure that you get some free time from your family after an especially challenging week. :grouphug:

[....]

My 8 yr old daughter is an incredibly bright child (and fwiw officially 'gifted' according to the WISC and local PS). She's a person who looks at things from a wide perspective and makes lots of connections between topics. She's really a very deep thinker and subtle and mature in her interactions with other people. She also very witty and has a wry sense of humor. All of this is great...

 

So, for instance, she loves all subjects which require her to just read and soak up ideas... things that come easy to her. But... every time she encounters anything that requires work or memorization or practice and she declares (between dramatic sobs) that she's "bad at it".

From an educational standpoint, the biggest problem is math. She's actually quite good at math, but she's decided that she's horrible at it. I've tried giving her easier math to build her confidence and strengthen her arithmetic skills, but she tells me it's boring. I've tried giving her harder math to give her challenge, but she tells me she's bad at it.

 

 

For the record, she's also decided that she's inherently bad at typing, handwriting, singing, gymnastics (particularly cartwheels)... really, any skill that she is not immediately successful at, she has decided that she is just naturally bad at it.

 

So... any suggestions for how to approach this learning style? Advice? Commiseration?

 

OK, I did not have time to read the other replies, but this is EXACTLY like my daughter. If you read Cathy Duffy's book (gosh, I am constantly quoting this book this week), there is a section about Perfect Paula. It says somewhere in there...that Perfect Paulas have a tendency to struggle with math after 4th/5th grade. It says they get used to knowing the answer to everything, they do NOT like surprises in their schoolwork, they thrive on patterns and they would rather just not try something than try and fail.

 

This is exactly how my 3rd grader is. My husband asked her a math question the other day at dinner and she didn't know the answer, so she pretended like she couldn't hear him. Kids like this do not want to admit that they don't know something.

 

I have no idea what the solution to this is... I do know there is a quote from Einstein where he was asked how you should educate a child who is gifted in language arts and he said the answer was that now you should strengthen the "left" side of his brain. So, I think my approach is going to be more math and science. I also ordered a second math program (we've added CLE Math to our Singapore), just to make her see that there are different ways to solve problems. I also have a boy who is a Wiggly Willy and I'm combining a lot of her classes with him. For example, we're doing Snap Circuits. Although she was labeled gifted in ps and totally wipes her brother off the board academically, he'll answer the Snap Circuit questions before she can (OK, this makes him feel good :tongue_smilie:).

 

So, I think Einstein and Cathy Duffy :D are onto something here... I think putting these kids in academic situations where they are unsure of themselves is probably a great strength-building exercise for them. I'm also really going to stress math this year.

 

Good luck with your Perfect Paula and wish me luck with mine!! :lol:

[mereminerals]

This post so describes my daughter. She is such a perfectionist and many things come so easily for her that she expects everything to be that easy. When they don't oh my, you would think the world has come to an end. She is getting that way as math is getting more complex for her, so we are switching it up and purposely putting her in a math that is more of a review than introducing new concepts to her. I'm still working this through with her as well and am really looking at what everyone is saying on this.

[beachnut]

 

It's really hard to convince someone if they themselves don't believe it to be true. (Ever have a bad hair day, but your hubby keeps telling you, "It looks fine!"?) My 10yo gets like this, sometimes with math, which he's actually pretty good at. All I can do is encourage him, remind him of past math successes ("Remember when you learned your times tables in just a few weeks?") and explain that everyone gets better at things with practice, even if they're already good (like pro athletes). Sometimes he persists and other times he just gives up and we take a break and try again later.

 

 

 

 

Lisa B.

 

 

[HeidiD]

A lot of bright/gifted children find rote learning and repetition physically painful. (Yes, really. Seriously, my skin crawls just thinking about learning my times tables.) I know it's not what we are told in school but really you DON'T NEED TOTAL RECALL in maths, you need the concepts. Besides, smart kids are smart enough to learn it if they see they need to.

 

Perfectionism is REALLY common too. In fact, it is often listed as one of the identifying characteristics of gifted children.

 

 

Also, along with perfectionism there is often a fiercely independent streak.

 

One of my teenagers prefers to do a lot of learning on his own, to immerse himself for hours in whatever it is he's studying or working on. So rather than fight the tide, I go along with this preference.

 

With my little kids, the same approach seems to work better than the traditional approach. For instance, my 7 yo was very resistant to doing school, and particularly math, so I gave him the charts for multiplication and division, a short assignment in a workbook, and had him do it himself. He was much happier with that approach - no more explosions. And now he knows them perfectly. For fractions and percents I mixed it up with manipulatives and workbook assignments that he would do on his own. This worked really well. Now he's starting "My Business Math" which I think will be fun for him, and more relevant than a dry textbook.

 

So, I guess the bottom line is that it can be easier with some of these personalities to equip them to do the work themselves.:)

[TKDmom]

Also, along with perfectionism there is often a fiercely independent streak.

 

<snip>

 

So, I guess the bottom line is that it can be easier with some of these personalities to equip them to do the work themselves.:)

 

Huh. What an appealing idea. And here I always feel guilty every time I assign independent work. I don't know why it never occurred to me to just let go and see how much they learn. (stubborn, perfectionist mom, here ;))

[mktkcb]

Oh honey.....I there are many of us with kids like that! My son is SO like that. I've found that I have to be very dispassionate about making my ds face up to challenges. The key is to not be afraid to challenge them, and not be afraid of their reaction to the challenge. I tell my son ALL THE TIME that the world and I could care less about how intelligent he is, but I do care that he learns how to work hard. Gifted kids are 1) afraid of failure, and 2) somewhat unwilling to be very teachable. So you must challenge, and then you must get them through the challenge until they get more used to handling challenge. Get them through....meaning deal with the tears, tantrums, discipline for attitude if necessary, take it a step at a time, ...get them through to the other side of whatever it is, so they experience the feeling of accomplishing something genuinely HARD for them. Rinse repeat. It is not an easy process, but it is a necessary one. When my son tells his piano teacher something is too hard (yeah right Mr. perfect pitch), she ALWAYS responds with "well I wouldn't insult your intelligence by giving you work that is too easy" (big smile on her face). So hang in there, get your dd through, endure endure endure, don't cave on the challenging stuff if you know she's capable.

Kayleen

[StephanieZ]

If LoF was working, you might just go with it.

 

FWIW, all of my dc learned long division in Singapore -- at 3A -- which they each completed around age 7. Not one of them batted an eye. Not one blink. Learned it in a single lesson and kept chugging along.

 

So, who knows, your dd might do just the same with it.

 

So, anyway, I don't have big answers on the personality/behavior issues. They sound common for high IQ kids. . . other than to keep trying to find challenging and interesting curriculum choices. So, if LoF works, do that. . . If something doesn't work, change it. Don't make it "easier" but DO make it more interesting and more fun! And, don't forget that the drudge work of memorization may well be just as hard for her as for a lower IQ kid, so plug away at it slowly and regularly w/o demanding rapid mastery. My youngest child has the least frustration of my kids in her schooling, most likely b/c I have learned from the olders to make sure to include regular, careful drill work in a timely fashion, so fact mastery is achieved painlessly and before it inhibits her progress (i.e, master multiplication tables before doing multidigit multiplication, etc.)

 

HTH

[WindblownIdeas]

My son is very similar - highly capable and highly self-critical. I remember being the same way as a child so that does help me to see things from his perspective and encourage him to do and try more. It was a very powerful sense that everyone around me was better than me. It was ridiculous but very real. It is something that requires a lot of encouragement and patience because left to themselves they will avoid doing many things they are capable of and would love doing. Shannon

[gevs4him]

:grouphug: With our daughter we always told her there was only one perfect person who walked this earth and no one expects you to be perfect, that she is human with faults just the way our loving God has made her and we love her. Did this help well after many years she is now 19 it has to a point. She has excelled 2 grades above her ps classmates and will graduate college in 3 years with 3 masters, Pre-Law, English, and Criminal Justice. She will tell you I have not read my college text but have received an A in the class and be very proud of herself, but she will still melt down around once a year if she feels her work is less than perfect and she might get a B. Also she is better at excepting challenges and will now work through them, but I am sad to say it is a trait of some gifted childern to be so very hard on themselves when they do not automatically know an answer. I can not tell you why they seem to think they should know everything and why they tend to quit and get so discouraged with themselves when they don't. But it does get better with time, talking and patience. Our daughter did not care for math either exact same as your daughter - we switched to Teaching Textbooks and wow our problem went away and she enjoyed math.

Prayers to you

Lisa

[HeidiD]

Oh honey.....I there are many of us with kids like that! My son is SO like that. I've found that I have to be very dispassionate about making my ds face up to challenges. The key is to not be afraid to challenge them, and not be afraid of their reaction to the challenge. I tell my son ALL THE TIME that the world and I could care less about how intelligent he is, but I do care that he learns how to work hard. Gifted kids are 1) afraid of failure, and 2) somewhat unwilling to be very teachable. So you must challenge, and then you must get them through the challenge until they get more used to handling challenge. Get them through....meaning deal with the tears, tantrums, discipline for attitude if necessary, take it a step at a time, ...get them through to the other side of whatever it is, so they experience the feeling of accomplishing something genuinely HARD for them. Rinse repeat. It is not an easy process, but it is a necessary one.

 

 

Thanks so much for this. GREAT ADVICE, and particularly important to remember for those of us surrounded by these types, and seemingly stuck in "rinse repeat" mode for years on end!!! This post is a keeper. :)

[jessamonk]

Your post reminded me of this article I read a few years ago. Hope it helps!

 

How Not to Talk to Your Kids

The inverse power of praise

[rlowetx]

My son is just like this and with Math. He gets it, but put a sheet of facts in front of him or do flashcards and "I don't get it" or "I don't understand" or "It's just too hard".

 

One of the best pieces of advice I got was on the gifted board going through this subject. If you are comfortable that they get the concept, go on.. seriously, its okay to skip pages to keep it interesting and go back and review to solidify the foundation. It reminded me of why I started homeschooling. We do Singapore Math and he loves it...it teaches via relationships and logic (base 10) which works for his mind, doesn't have a lot of repetition - and when I can tell he's about to break down, we skip ahead to fractions or time or weight or something else and then just review it all together. We also take breaks and supplement with logic puzzles and math mazes.

 

Math is a daily requirement in our house, but I've become more flexible on how we meet this daily need. He's bright, I really don't need to stress him out - for us I had to focus on our goal: teach a life long love of learning

[Beth in SW WA]

I came here to post a similar question. I feel like I'm reading a description of my dd in some of your responses.

 

I don't know if my dd is gifted. She is an eager learner (reads Narnia books this week for fun, is memorizing and teaching dd6 her favorite parts of Macbeth, etc).

 

She gets frustrated if she can't play her piano lesson/master it perfectly the first time.

 

She pretends to be tired & yawns when we hit a math concept she doesn't like.

 

She sings with perfect pitch for our family (favorite songs from church, Les Mis, Phantom, Cats, etc.) Yet, she sings quietly at her CYT showcase.

 

She fusses if she misspells a word when I dictate ala SWR (finger-spelling). The look on her face is one of despair. She is really hard on herself.

 

She requests poetry at night. She memorizes everything.

 

When we have teenagers here, she carries around her journal and 'interviews' the kids. Thankfully my older dc's friends love her and enjoy chatting with her.

 

She doesn't stop talking. Ever.

 

She hates being wrong. Loves being right.

 

Her brain doesn't turn off. She requires a lot of sleep.

 

A bit of history....

 

She taught herself to read shortly after we got home from China. She reads everything. Decodes anything but comprehends at a high school level. (Again, no formal testing. Just my evaluation.)

 

The day/week we met her in China (14 months old) she recited random words in English (having never heard English before). She understood our commands in English from day one (give the ball to Andrew, walk to Anna, etc). Her adjustment to our family took 6 months. Our social worker said the 'smart' babies over-think everything and don't transition well.

 

She is thriving with Singapore math although she gets frustrated easily. She enjoys Rainbow Rock. I am trying multiple programs to keep things moving. She enjoys the RS math games. We will soon begin RS B with dd6. I think learning the abacus will be fascinating for her.

 

She hates memorizing her math facts. She does well in basic multiplication because she knows her skip-counting facts through 12.

 

I give marbles and other rewards for cooperation. I try and make everything fun and happy even though I am extremely frustrated some of the time.

 

She loves GI, SI & MOTH. We haven't started BL or PI yet. Our conversations are wonderful. She loves learning Spanish. She's iffy on Latin.

 

Sorry to hijack. I just find this thread fascinating. Gifted or not, I see commonalities with the kids mentioned here.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Beth in SW WA
typo