Anybody else never taught how to manage a home?

[LibraryLover]

I have such a hard time understanding this submissive stuff..

Is it a certain type of American Christian thing?? This forum has been a window into Christian lifestyles, and I notice that word getting thrown around as a bit an insult (I think?).

 

Is wanting to be an excellent house keeper, wife, and mother a submissive act?

 

Could you please clarify which parts of this conversation are submissive? What is wifely? Can you be wifely but not submissive?

 

Not trying to be a brat, just looking for some better understanding. :)

 

 

Post my whole quote because I don't remember what else went with this comment. Don't feel like searching. I probably meant that some people are totally into the whole woman -as- sole -manager- of- the- home. It is a very conservative Christian perspective, and it may exist outside of this board or the US, but I don't know. My friends/relatives who live in Europe are working. Some of their dh's help, some not so much or at all. I do think the need to be valued as 'women at home' is more American Christian in nature. My friends who live abroad, but outside of Europe, tend to have a great deal of domestic help, even if middle class. The American middle and lower middle class has less money for help, and I think women want to feel good about keeping a nice home...beyond keepng a nice home.

 

Ime, American women who do all of the domestic work alone want recognition for that, and some have made it a very nice art form. In Europe, most women are not at home past early childhood. I personally don't know anyone in Europe with school age children who doesn't work outside the home, unless they are American expats or military. *All * of my dh's upper and middle class female relatives work. Only old people are home all day. The few women I know in middle east countries (outside of Israel) don't work, and do not clean their own homes at all.

 

I also have a friend in Jakarta, and she teaches English p/t as a volunteer, and takes photos, which she can occassionaly sell. There is nothing else for her to do. She has a staff. If she tries to garden, someone runs towards her with a shovel. She is not even allowed to drive.

 

Wai! I do have a friend in Greece with scool age children who doesn't work outside the home, but she is American, married to a native. She doesn't clean her house, however. So wait, she fits my above description. lol Never mind. She even has someone who helps her cook.

Edited June 15, 2010 by LibraryLover

[PineFarmMom]

My mom was amazing. She was a servant to us, a great cook, a great housekeeper, etc. I had zero interest in learning those things as a child/early teen. I did like baking, but only the fun part and not the clean-up. ;) Needless to say, I never learned this stuff from her because she didn't teach me and I wasn't wanting to learn. I think we both could have tried harder. I "get" her, though, and fully understand why it didn't happen.

 

I've learned a lot since getting married. Dh was very good at all of this and taught me a lot. I'm a good cook now (I could barely cook anything but dessert when we got married) and am able to keep the house fairly clean, but it is still a struggle for me if we get too busy. It doesn't come naturally, and I struggle when we have changes going on. One thing I've noticed after talking to mom, though, is that my mentality is different because of home educating my dc. I more naturally talk them through things and teach as we go. When I cook for instance, I have one of them in there with me and we talk about cleaning up as we go and about scraping the knife across the cup to level the flour or sugar, about how half the stick of butter is 1/2 cup or the difference between dicing and slicing, etc. My mom grew up in a different time and was more of a "get-it-done" type person. While she's much, much better at the domestic gifts, I think I'm probably better at guiding my kids in the process.

 

I still feel the need for books and things like flylady, because it just does. not. come naturally to me, and I do know women who keep things organized and neat and it is like breathing to them. To moms who this is natural, you probably can't grasp how hard it is for those to whom it is NOT natural!!

Edited June 15, 2010 by Texas T

[helena]

Post my whole quote because I don't remember what else went with this comment. Don't feel ike searching. I probably meant that some people are totally into the whole woman as sole manager of the home thing; where women care for the home (and kids get chores, but daddy doesn't help inside-- he does car work, lawn etc).

 

Here is your post:

Huh? Where was the word demonized used? Don't read what's not there.

 

I know some people are very submissive and wifely here. But not all of us are into that. That's OK.

[Care]

Worth noting, I don't dig the wifely/submissive thing at all for myself. I just consider it fair distribution of labor. If DH has to be out of the house all day to keep us financially afloat, the least I can do is try to keep things together at home so we can *all* find the clothes, shoes, pens, toys, paper, salt, or whatever it is we need at the moment.

 

I started with FlyLady when I first got my own place. Fell off of that wagon within a month. Have tried to get back on, and it just never stuck. Now... Well, now I keep the place so we have a vague notion of where stuff is, and we can move around. If I'm particularly paranoid that my MIL is going to have another bout of crazy, or if my mother is coming to visit, cleaning is done top-to-bottom over the course of a week, every room in the house, every item in its place, every piece of clothing washed, folded, and put away. For whatever reason, I just can't seem to keep it together enough to *maintain* that, and that's what I'm hoping to find. :blush:

[LibraryLover]

Here is your post:

Huh? Where was the word demonized used? Don't read what's not there.

 

I know some people are very submissive and wifely here. But not all of us are into that. That's OK.

 

 

I answered your post above. Where do you live?

[LibraryLover]

Worth noting, I don't dig the wifely/submissive thing at all for myself. I just consider it fair distribution of labor. If DH has to be out of the house all day to keep us financially afloat, the least I can do is try to keep things together at home so we can *all* find the clothes, shoes, pens, toys, paper, salt, or whatever it is we need at the moment.

 

I started with FlyLady when I first got my own place. Fell off of that wagon within a month. Have tried to get back on, and it just never stuck. Now... Well, now I keep the place so we have a vague notion of where stuff is, and we can move around. If I'm particularly paranoid that my MIL is going to have another bout of crazy, or if my mother is coming to visit, cleaning is done top-to-bottom over the course of a week, every room in the house, every item in its place, every piece of clothing washed, folded, and put away. For whatever reason, I just can't seem to keep it together enough to *maintain* that, and that's what I'm hoping to find. :blush:

 

If you keep your family naked for a couple of days, you might find that. :D The problem is people want to wear clothing every dang day. Maybe 'keeping it together' by having every single item washed, folded, and put away every single day is not a realistic goal. Maybe thinking of yourself as not able to 'keep it togehter' is harsh. Maybe always making sure nobody ever has to account for their tape or pencil ussage is boring. Maybe other people can keep their own stash of pencils. Maybe your dh can keep a steady supply in his car.

[helena]

Post my whole quote because I don't remember what else went with this comment. Don't feel like searching. I probably meant that some people are totally into the whole woman -as- sole -manager- of- the- home. It is a very conservative Christian perspective, and it may exist outside of this board or the US, but I don't know. All of my frieds/relatives who live outside the US are working. Some of their dh's help, some not so much or at all. I do think the need to be valued as 'women at home' is more American Christian in nature. My friends who live abroad, but outside of Europe, tend to have a great deal of domestic help, even if middle class. The American middle and lower middle class has less money for help, and I think women want to feel good about keeping a nice home...beyond keepng a nice home.

 

Ime, American women who do all of the domestic work alone want recognition for that. In Europe most women are not at home past early childhood. I don't know anyone in Europe with school age children who don't work outside the home, unless they are American expats. The few women I know in middle east countries (outside of Israel) don't wrok, and do not clean their own homes at all.

 

It's all so interesting isn't it?

I grew up in a very clean environment. My grandma was a major catalyst of this. She grew up extremely poor (not from the states), and I think it was a coping mechanism to reconcile her past and validate her place here in the US. She didn't want any part of anything that could be viewed as less than.

Her linen closet was full of soft clean towels, tp, and extra toiletries. Everything was clean, everything was stocked, and in it's place.

Of course she was a wreck in her heart.

 

But the house keeping did something for her, I'm not sure if made her wheels spin, or if it gave her peace and comfort. Hopefully the later.

 

 

You know, we just had some friends come to visit from Dubai. I was starting to feel uncomfortable thinking about what my house looks like compared to what I imagine hers to look like. How sad is that?? I don't even have to see her house to feel like a pig. :tongue_smilie:

 

My husband has offered many times to pay for a house keeper, but I haven't taken him up on his offer yet. Must be the American in me. :D

[helena]

I answered your post above. Where do you live?

 

I live in So Cal, born and raised.

I have only one grandparent who's family was here for a long time. The rest, though well established in all things American, still had one foot in another time and place. They were very old fashioned in the way they did the womanly work (:D). I don't think the concept of submissive was ever on my radar until an American friend tripped out on me (I think this is what it was) serving my husband dinner at the table and teaching the girls to ask daddy if he wants a lemonade and bringing it to him. It really took me by surprise, that my style could be thought of as odd.

That was about the time I starting coming here too.

I kept thinking, "What's the big deal about taking care of your husband??"

While I may do and think some similar things to "submissive Christians", I am neither of these things. I'm never in a passive role, far from it! My husband can really tic me off with his unwillingness to clean, but I like my role in the house.

I still think about her reaction, but I've decided that we are approaching the subject from two very different perspectives. I'm happy in my "old fashioned" (with a fat slice of modern) role. And yes I am raising my daughters the same way!:eek:

[LibraryLover]

It's all so interesting isn't it?

I grew up in a very clean environment. My grandma was a major catalyst of this. She grew up extremely poor (not from the states), and I think it was a coping mechanism to reconcile her past and validate her place here in the US. She didn't want any part of anything that could be viewed as less than.

Her linen closet was full of soft clean towels, tp, and extra toiletries. Everything was clean, everything was stocked, and in it's place.

Of course she was a wreck in her heart.

 

But the house keeping did something for her, I'm not sure if made her wheels spin, or if it gave her peace and comfort. Hopefully the later.

 

 

You know, we just had some friends come to visit from Dubai. I was starting to feel uncomfortable thinking about what my house looks like compared to what I imagine hers to look like. How sad is that?? I don't even have to see her house to feel like a pig. :tongue_smilie:

 

My husband has offered many times to pay for a house keeper, but I haven't taken him up on his offer yet. Must be the American in me. :D

 

 

American help is so much more costly for the middle class than it is for native Dubai women, not to metion Dubai is a wealthy country, and much of the domestic work is done by people from other countries. Cost is the major reason average Americans do not have domestic help, and why many lower and middle class women pride themselves on doing it all on their own. A lot of folks think that homes should be looking Pottery Barn or Good Housekeeping, photo sylists be darned. :) When help was cheap, pre civil rights, it was more common for lower to middle class white women to have help. ;)

 

Sure, lots of women don't care about Pottery Barn looks, they just love to clean. I like a clean and organized home, but i also find doing the same hings over and over again tedious. Didn't i already wash this uderwear, load this dishwasher??!! I wish I could pay someone more than a living wage to come in each day and slog through it all with my family. My family is good about helping maintain. I doubt I could keep my sanity if I were the only adult or person who cared.

Edited June 15, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Ester Maria]

I grew up in a rather spotless and organized home, but without actually doing much - the imperative of my early childhood was not to create additional work to others, who actually did the work around the house (so picking up after yourself and keeping your own things in order was assumed), and in my youth I did help, but it was more along the lines of circumstantial chores and helping myself with own things more than before. We had a housekeeper who did most of the work; you could say that my parents and I only had to do minimal maintenance of order.

 

In spite of that, at some point in my youth, my mother taught me how to do everything (as a part of those circumstantial chores), even if I later wasn't required to practice it. It was a process over a couple of years, but she wanted me to leave the house knowing how to do things, even if I won't have to. She was all into, "You will probably be able to afford a maid yourself when you grow up, but you might wish not to, or you might find yourself in a situation where that would be a luxury that would cost you some other, more important things; all of the possibilities are always open, so a girl has to know how to do these things, in case she finds herself in such a situation."

 

I also learned some food-related tricks from my husband, because we didn't really keep kosher so I didn't know the intricacies regarding that (to impress the in-laws :D), and because he, as a chemist, knows what we're eating and doesn't want us to eat a lot of what's available (or should I say, most).

[LibraryLover]

Exactly. Except for the kosher stuff. ;) That can confuse even the religious. I have friends who keep kosher to various degrees, one very much so, and is very knowledgable, but when her MIL comes over, it's like my friend is some shiksa off the street who knows nothing. Her MIL will frisk you at the door during Passover. "You have crumbs from the car! I know it!" :) I am not making fun. Just pointing out degrees.

 

I grew up in a rather spotless and organized home, but without actually doing much - the imperative of my early childhood was not to create additional work to others, who actually did the work around the house (so picking up after yourself and keeping your own things in order was assumed), and in my youth I did help, but it was more along the lines of circumstantial chores and helping myself with own things more than before. We had a housekeeper who did most of the work; you could say that my parents and I only had to do minimal maintenance of order.

 

In spite of that, at some point in my youth, my mother taught me how to do everything (as a part of those circumstantial chores), even if I later wasn't required to practice it. It was a process over a couple of years, but she wanted me to leave the house knowing how to do things, even if I won't have to. She was all into, "You will probably be able to afford a maid yourself when you grow up, but you might wish not to, or you might find yourself in a situation where that would be a luxury that would cost you some other, more important things; all of the possibilities are always open, so a girl has to know how to do these things, in case she finds herself in such a situation."

 

I also learned some food-related tricks from my husband, because we didn't really keep kosher so I didn't know the intricacies regarding that (to impress the in-laws :D), and because he, as a chemist, knows what we're eating and doesn't want us to eat a lot of what's available (or should I say, most).

Edited June 15, 2010 by LibraryLover

[helena]

American help is so much more costly for the middle class than it is for Dubia women. Cost is the major reason Americans have less help, and why many lower and middle class women pride themselves on doing it all on their own. A lot of folks think that homes should be looking they are out of Pottery Barn or Good Housekeeping, photo sylists be darned. :) When help was cheap, pre civil rights, it was more common for middle class women to have help. Slave wages and all.

 

And there you have it!

 

I stayed at a friends family house out of the states which was run by servants. I couldn't even hear the word without cringing.

As much as I wanted to put it in a non American context (which it wasn't), I was grossed out by the dynamics between her family and their staff. It was condescending and reeked of a caste system mentality.

 

That friend, looking back had a horrible time living in the states. She didn't know how to cook or clean, how to garden, or decorate to make a cozy home. Her mom never taught her how to manage a home in that way.

[LibraryLover]

And there you have it!

 

I stayed at a friends family house out of the states which was run by servants. I couldn't even hear the word without cringing.

As much as I wanted to put it in a non American context (which it wasn't), I was grossed out by the dynamics between her family and their staff. It was condescending and reeked of a caste system mentality.

 

That friend, looking back had a horrible time living in the states. She didn't know how to cook or clean, how to garden, or decorate to make a cozy home. Her mom never taught her how to manage a home in that way.

 

 

I have nothing against hiring folks to help. I do think they should be paid well, however. I cringe whenever I hear folks talking about finding people who will work for crumbs.

 

I also don't think it makes sense to have expectations that one person should be able to keep a home as clean as a staff would. The book Home Comforts made me a somewhat ill, really. It's the sort of book one might give to the head housekeeper/butler. What a staff used to do, now one woman is supposed to do alone, as art. Again, if that is what you love to do, that's wonderful. I happen to enjoy cooking and a lot of people do not. I do realize some people enjoy all aspects of domestic maintenance.

 

In fact, I have no issues whatsoever with women who enjoy home arts... I mean, I love gadening, and that is a home art. And maybe chicken -rearing is as well. :) I simply don't think mothers need to be doing all of this alone if they do not wish to, if they have other interests etc. My mother never raised chickens, but I do and that also is not rocket science. My mother didn't teach me to do a lot of things I enjoy doing. I either taught myself or learned from others. No big deal.

Edited June 15, 2010 by LibraryLover

[helena]

I have nothing against hiring folks to help. I do think they should be paid well, however. I cringe whenever I hear folks talking about finding people who will work for crumbs.

 

I don't have a problem with it either. I have health issues that could be eased with a house keeper, I keep asking myself why I don't just make the call.

[Jean in Newcastle]

And there you have it!

 

I stayed at a friends family house out of the states which was run by servants. I couldn't even hear the word without cringing.

As much as I wanted to put it in a non American context (which it wasn't), I was grossed out by the dynamics between her family and their staff. It was condescending and reeked of a caste system mentality.

 

That friend, looking back had a horrible time living in the states. She didn't know how to cook or clean, how to garden, or decorate to make a cozy home. Her mom never taught her how to manage a home in that way.

 

This is how it was at my dh's extended family's homes in the Philippines. Not only were they paid peanuts, they slept on a mat on the kitchen floor. I kept getting into trouble because I spoke directly to the servants on personal matters. Yet, when the servants heard that I did my own laundry and took care of my own children, they were totally shocked!

 

At one home, the 20-something daughters were lamenting about not knowing what to fix for dinner. When I offered to give them some tips, dh whispered to me that what they were actually lamenting was what instructions to give to the cook. . .

[Ester Maria]

Exactly. Except for the kosher stuff. ;) That can confuse even the religious. I have friends who keep kosher to various degrees, one very much so, and is very knowledgable, but when her MIL comes over, it's like my friend is some shiksa off the street who knows nothing. Her MIL will frisk you at the door during Passover. "You have crumbs from the car! I know it!" :) I am not making fun. Just pointing out degrees.

Tell me about it! :lol:

My in-laws are actually not nearly that bad (more on the modern side regarding many things, and thus more flexible) when compared to the less-than-modern part of his family. Now, those bring their own food and utensils if they happen to come over (which happened only a couple of times, b''h) or buy the plastic ones for that occasion, I'm actually surprised they don't bring with them a portable table as well :rolleyes:. They know we have a kosher (double, of course) set aside and that everything they would be served is from that set and cooked in that set, but they still distrust us. Not saying that there maybe aren't some halachic issues about eating by us (double oven stuff, we not being observant, etc.), but it's a general distrust issue more than anything else.

 

By the way, have you noticed how the cleanliness of the houses generally tends to go up the more "black" you go on the "social scale", if you get what I mean? Every time when I happen to be in an ultra-Orthodox home, my instant thought is that those homes are about to be filmed for a commercial, seriously. Spotless, in the true sense of the word. I admire those women. :)

Edited June 15, 2010 by Ester Maria

[melissel]

I know some people are very submissive and wifely here. But not all of us are into that. That's OK. :)

 

I think you're assuming quite a lot about our intentions. I'm an atheist and I have a degree in women's studies. My DH will tell you that I'm the very last person that anyone would ever call submissive and wifely :lol: That really has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion. I think, like most of the people posting here, I'm simply looking for a way to create some order in my home so I don't keep running around like a chicken with my head cut off, tripping and stepping on toys and game pieces, trying to figure out what I'm going to cook for dinner 20 minutes before it needs to be in the oven, trying to make clear surfaces so that we can sit down to a meal without spending 10 minutes cleaning the table off first, and worrying that the layer of crumbs across my living room floor will attract more of the ants we struggle with every summer.

 

As someone else (Care, maybe?) pointed out, it has nothing to do with being wifely and everything to do with division of labor and interests. I have no interest whatsoever in dealing with car repairs and trips to Home Depot for gutter parts and French drains. My DH has no desire to wrangle board games and manage laundry. He cooks for himself almost every night because he gets home late, he cooks for all of us on his days off, and he does anything I ask him to do around the house if he has the time. Frankly, considering how much time I spent online today while he worked until 9, I'm pretty sure I'm the one not holding up my end of the bargain!

Edited June 15, 2010 by melissel

[Carrie12345]

I don't even know how to categorize the "teaching" I received (or didn't).

 

I grew up in a relatively clean home. My sisters and I were expected to dust, vacuum, and clean the bathroom when we were told. We had a dish-washing rotation. I was sometimes expected to get dinner started, but my mom would get frustrated when she'd ask "Is it done?" and I'd answer "How do I tell?" (I overcook everything to this day!)

 

I desperately struggle with running my household. I find it extremely overwhelming, and then paralyzing when dh isn't around to do any of the outdoor work. There's just SO MUCH!

 

I'm trying to find things for the kids to help out with to lighten the load. It's difficult b/c ds has major coordination issues that make it difficult to attain clean dishes or a decently swept floor. Dd8 dries dishes, but can't reach to put most away, even with a chair. And none of them can reach the controls on my stacked clothes dryer. They do mostly take care of the pets though!

 

Right now, the main common areas of my house are decent. Well, actually, I should check on the main bathroom! The rest (bedrooms, another bath, loft) look like bombs went off in them. And that's why the other rooms look okay! :tongue_smilie:

[Mommyfaithe]

My mom was a wonderful mom. I was truly blessed to have her and I miss her desperately. That said...

 

She taught me practically nothing about how to run a home. Our home was always cluttered and the only cleaning that got done was crisis cleaning for company. Luckily we had company very frequently so the house was cleaned regulary. LOL I was married a couple of years before I realized that I didn't have to spend all day cleaning before having people over. I could spread the work out over the week. Amazing!

 

I'm 43 years old and still stumbling along. I've read all kinds of books over the years (Don Aslett, Denise Schofield, Flylady, etc.) trying to figure it out. I got helpful tips, but nothing that really "clicked" for me. I think I've found it, though. Home Comforts. It's an incredible book! It explains the reasoning behind all those home schedules. It also has instructions for cleaning anything you could possibly imagine. I'm constantly finding answers to things I've wondered about.

 

I got the book from the library, but will be ordering a copy soon.

 

If you've found anything like this, that caused a "eureka" moment, I'd love to hear about it.

My Mom taught us nothing about being adults. Not how to handle money, not how to improve our standard of living (which was sub poverty,) not how to dress ourselves, or clean our homes or bobdies, not how to worship the Lord, not how to get an education, not how to cook or garden, or maintain our lives. NOTHING and I mean N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Nothing!!!!!

 

It has been so frustrating. Not matter how much I learn, I am still insecure and feel like I am doing it all wrong. I have never learned to relax and enjoy because I am so busy trying to do it "right."

 

I am off to read your replies.

Faithe

[woolybear]

To me it is not the physical act of cleaning or cooking that is the problem. It is doing it consistently along with everything else that we do. The management aspect, really. Also, I consider paying bills, figuring out how/where to save money in our life, organizing doctor's appointments, not forgetting to buy certain small household items, buying groceries regularly, and on and on to be what home management is about. My mom did much of this, but she also had a woman who came in once a week (there was some point when she even came twice a week) who helped her a lot. I think she did a lot of the cleaning, laundry, even occasional cooking.

 

I think I have a few problems in this area. One is that I don't consider this my primary job. I tend to view homeschooling as my first job and need to squeeze other things in around that. Also, I don't like a lot of the homemaking tasks so therefor prefer to put them off. Even the grocery shopping, I try to do less of that. I know many people plan meals, shop on a certain day every week, etc. I feel like if I "can get away with" not having to go to the grocery store for another day, I've done well.:001_smile:

 

I am trying hard to change some of this, but really it makes me feel like I am trying to be a different person.

[Rhonda in TX]

I also don't think it makes sense to have expectations that one person should be able to keep a home as clean as a staff would. The book Home Comforts made me a somewhat ill, really. It's the sort of book one might give to the head housekeeper/butler. What a staff used to do, now one woman is supposed to do alone, as art. Again, if that is what you love to do, that's wonderful. I happen to enjoy cooking and a lot of people do not. I do realize some people enjoy all aspects of domestic maintenance.

 

I don't understand this. To me, the most valuable part of the book is the beginning, when she's talking about the basics - advantages of cleaning schedules, etc. The rest is a reference manual. Am I going to iron my sheets? Heck, no. However, if I'm ever in a situation that calls for it, the information is there. I take what I can from the book and toss out the rest. What I did take from the book, however, is extremely valuable to me.

[LibraryLover]

I have no issues at all with people who enjoy keeping a home, or who want to learn how to keep a home. I love to garden and cook, I prefer an organized one to massive clutter, so I have no beef with home arts. (Ok, so sometimes I do worry about extremes. You know, homes where children are less important than keeping the house perfect. I am not saying people said they did that. :)

 

I am uncomfortable with thinking this is only a woman's job (even if she is homeschooling , and therefore 'home'), and she is responsible for teaching her daughters how to 'manage' a home in a certain way. Maybe some people had mothers who never learned home management simply didn't enjoy the endless work of it. It's ok to be a woman not dig it. A lot of of it tedious and repetitive. It's OK to learn how to do things from a book, or other people.

 

It's possible to do it on the fly-- take a day rather than a week to clean for company. Maybe they knew it was going to get dirty by Sat if they started cleaning on the Mon. I think of dusting, washing dishes, washing floors...these things don't lend themelves well to doing days or a week in advance. I wish dusting lasted a month or more. And laundry...why do people need clean underwear? :lol:

 

I like that people are teaching their children how to do laundry, cook etc. Boys needs these skills as well.

 

 

I don't understand this. To me, the most valuable part of the book is the beginning, when she's talking about the basics - advantages of cleaning schedules, etc. The rest is a reference manual. Am I going to iron my sheets? Heck, no. However, if I'm ever in a situation that calls for it, the information is there. I take what I can from the book and toss out the rest. What I did take from the book, however, is extremely valuable to me.

[3lilreds in NC]

My mom is my best friend, but she was not a fabulous housekeeper and I learned next to nothing about home making skills from her. She feels very guilty about it, too, but I learned a lot from her that was far more valuable and she loved us all so well. I actually learned how to do laundry from a guy in the laundry room at college! :lol: I am definitely stumbling along over here. I have to say that homeschooling has inspired me along that front because I want my kids to have more of a clue than I had.

 

I have the Home Comforts book, too, and it does help to look at it as a reference. You really can look up anything you ever wanted to know about keeping house in there. I thought her personal schedules were a little psychotic, but it's been a while since I looked at the book. :D

 

I signed up for FlyLady a long time ago and never got into it. However, I have a dear friend who encouraged me to try it again while we were at the Childlight conference over the weekend, so I'm going to give it a try. She said she cried for two weeks because it was so hard to get into the good habits, but now she loves it and it makes her life easier. My problem before was that I just could not get out from under the clutter but we have a little more room in our new house so it's not as bad.

[Rhonda in TX]

I am uncomfortable with thinking this is only a woman's job (even if she is homeschooling , and therefore 'home'), and she is responsible for teaching her daughters how to 'manage' a home in a certain way. Maybe some people had mothers who never learned home management simply didn't enjoy the endless work of it. It's ok to be a woman not dig it. A lot of of it tedious and repetitive. It's OK to learn how to do things from a book, or other people.

 

 

I think you're making a lot of assumptions.

 

I don't think it's only a woman's job. My sister's DH does not do much of anything around the house. It bugs the cr*p out of me that he still expects her to handle all the housework and will not allow her to hire a maid, even though she works full-time outside the home.

 

I also plan on both my children (boy and girl) knowing how to manage a home, do the yardwork, and basic auto maintenance before they leave home. How they choose to divide up work with their spouse will be their business, but they need to know how to do it all.

 

However, I have to look at how my choices are impacting my life. The chaos in my home overwhelms me. I look at things that are a mess and I'm immobilized by it. I have GOT to get a handle on this. I know that my life would be better (less stressful for a myriad of reasons) if my house was neat and tidy. I'm not talking spotless. I'm not talking about making people miserable with my expectations. I've known people like that. Believe me, it's not what I want. I do know, however, that there is a better way, and I've got to find what works for me. You've found what works for you. That's great! Allow the rest of us to do the same.

[Guest]

Thanks for the book suggestion!

[LibraryLover]

I am not thinking of any particular poster, just so you know.

 

A lot of peope do think of this as woman's work, and that women are supposed to teach this work to their daughters.

 

I am not assuming *you* think any particular way about this particular subject. What I know about you is that that you enjoy this book, and it's helping you to learn how to manage your home. That's cool! No argument from me!

 

I think you're making a lot of assumptions.

 

I don't think it's only a woman's job. My sister's DH does not do much of anything around the house. It bugs the cr*p out of me that he still expects her to handle all the housework and will not allow her to hire a maid, even though she works full-time outside the home.

 

I also plan on both my children (boy and girl) knowing how to manage a home, do the yardwork, and basic auto maintenance before they leave home. How they choose to divide up work with their spouse will be their business, but they need to know how to do it all.

 

However, I have to look at how my choices are impacting my life. The chaos in my home overwhelms me. I look at things that are a mess and I'm immobilized by it. I have GOT to get a handle on this. I know that my life would be better (less stressful for a myriad of reasons) if my house was neat and tidy. I'm not talking spotless. I'm not talking about making people miserable with my expectations. I've known people like that. Believe me, it's not what I want. I do know, however, that there is a better way, and I've got to find what works for me. You've found what works for you. That's great! Allow the rest of us to do the same.

[Remudamom]

Our house was always spotless, mom had help and wouldn't have dreamed of asking we girls to do chores. So, when I got married I wanted a spotless house and had no clue of how to go about it. Took me forever to figure it out. Hard work helps.

[Nicole M]

I am not thinking of any particular poster, just so you know.

 

A lot of peope do think of this as woman's work, and that women are supposed to teach this work to their daughters.

 

I am not assuming *you* think any particular way about this particular subject. What I know about you is that that you enjoy this book, and it's helping you to learn how to manage your home. That's cool! No argument from me!

 

Have you seen the book Radical Homemakers? It might interest you. I haven't read it yet, but I'm on the waiting list for it the library.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0979439116/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=14A87JGYC1RTM2K3PEE1&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

 

ETA: I don't let that crap about "women's work" get in the way of my teaching my boys these skills or enjoying them myself. They're skills I wish I'd had earlier in my life, tho, for sure. I don't want to live like my friend who has two degrees from Ivy League schools and whose house should really be condemned. She disdains "women's work" and so lives in a hovel. I love to garden and cook, too, and I love an orderly home. I love all the homey arts, the history, the lore, the equipment, everything about "home." I want my home to be welcoming, but I don't feel it's my whole identity, kwim?

Edited June 15, 2010 by Nicole M

[angela in ohio]

To me it is not the physical act of cleaning or cooking that is the problem. It is doing it consistently along with everything else that we do. The management aspect, really.

 

Yes, this. And while it is easy to find books about HOW to cook, clean, etc., it is hard to find books about how to manage it. How to not only get it all done, but make this a HOME.

 

The best helps I have found have been Side-Tracked Home Executives, Home Conforts, A Mother's Rule of Life (Catholic,) and The Hidden Art of Homemaking (Protestant.)

 

I'm still working on it.

[LibraryLover]

I'll check it out.

 

I really believe that folks who live in hovel/filth/hoarder conditions are not simply with dealing with 'not knowing' how to clean. I know someone like that. She has an MA from an Ivy, and married a wealthy man. They could have hired any help they wished and he begged her to. If people did come to clean the house, she wouldn't let them in. He himself could not clean up after her enough, although he tried. The whole family sufferred terribly , and they are now divorced. She has no children in the home, (grown) and its worse than ever. It's not because she was never taught or couldn't learn, or that she is lazy (she is not!) or couldn't afford to hire cleaners. Hers is a mental health issue. I don't think it's uncommon.

 

Have you seen the book Radical Homemakers? It might interest you. I haven't read it yet, but I'm on the waiting list for it the library.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0979439116/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=14A87JGYC1RTM2K3PEE1&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

 

ETA: I don't let that crap about "women's work" get in the way of my teaching my boys these skills or enjoying them myself. They're skills I wish I'd had earlier in my life, tho, for sure. I don't want to live like my friend who has two degrees from Ivy League schools and whose house should really be condemned. She disdains "women's work" and so lives in a hovel. I love to garden and cook, too, and I love an orderly home. I love all the homey arts, the history, the lore, the equipment, everything about "home." I want my home to be welcoming, but I don't feel it's my whole identity, kwim?

[Nicole M]

I'll check it out.

 

I really believe that folks who live in hovel/filth/hoarder conditions are not simply with dealing with 'not knowing' how to clean. I know someone like that. She has an MA from an Ivy, and married a wealthy man. They could have hired any help they wished and he begged her to. If people did come to clean the house, she wouldn't let them in. He himself could not clean up after her enough, although he tried. The whole family sufferred terribly , and they are now divorced. She has no children in the home, (grown) and its worse than ever. It's not because she was never taught or couldn't learn, or that she is lazy (she is not!) or couldn't afford to hire cleaners. Hers is a mental health issue. I don't think it's uncommon.

 

Yes. Totally. In my friend's case, it's not so much a mental health issue, though it is an issue. It's just not a priority for her. Both her mom and dad have PhDs (in their 90s now, still going to conferences, etc., awesome folks), and their whole focus was academic. My friend's mom was the daughter of very wealthy immigrants from China, and housework was something that the "help" did. So for my friend, it's partly how she was raised, partly that she would rather read, and partly habit. The older I get, the more I think habit is a huge, huge motivator in our lives, in ways we don't always even see.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I still haven't found my eureka moment. I think I just need years of therapy:). My mom didn't teach me to keep house. She just yelled and complained and told us how we did everything wrong. I thought our house was spotless, but it was never good enough. I hated holidays and company because mom was always yelling.

 

Now, I rebel at cleaning. I am trying not to pass on my own distaste for housework (and scheduled cleanings) in my kids by trying hard not to yell at them and showing them how I want things done. I do lots of "company's coming" cleanings. Part of my problem is my low energy levels. (Part thyroid, part who knows what and I have spent a fortune trying to figure it all out and have pretty much given up.) I just cannot get anything done without a shot of adrenaline of a fast looming deadline - like company is coming. When things were really bad healthwise, sometimes that shot of adrenaline didn't come until company was in the driveway.

 

Part of my problem is a distaste for being hemmed in by schedules. I hate that "always behind" feeling. I tried FlyLady, but dropped out after feeling like I got less than 1/4 of the tasks done in a day.

 

I have a cleaning lady come every two weeks to help me keep up, but clutter is my enemy.

[nrg]

I am not much concerned about whether someone sees homekeeping as "women's work." For the most part, in my home, it is my work. As with anything I do, I want to do it well and to dedicate the proportionate amounts of time, money, and emotional energy to its successful accomplishment. So, I read, talk to others, and work at it. There is no political or sociological underpinning for my choices. I would like to be the one who provides the pleasant, healthy, loving, stimulating, relaxing, home environment for my family, just as I would like to be the one responsible for the education of my children. I am glad to do it as a whole, although I am most assuredly not glad to do every task that comes along.

 

There is no need to "kick at the pricks," or fight against stereotypes or inappropriate sociological structures. Just decide what role I want and do it. Should I teach homemaking skills to my children? Yes! I want to give them that. It is not romantic. It is reality. If I want to live in a certain type of environment, whether it be regarding cleanliness, order, education, art, music, I am the one to take responsibility for providing it.

 

That does not mean I do it alone. After all, part of the environment is that all participate, and that I get to enjoy it.

 

I posted earlier about my mother's gratitude for her life and her home. I wish I had had half of her appreciation!

[Impish]

Its been a struggle all my adult life. I was never taught the whys of things, the whens of things.

 

My parents would yell, Dad would hit with the belt, fists, drag me out of bed by my hair when things weren't done to 'standard', but all I ever learned was that housework was a punishment.

 

Being a single mom didn't help either. When the choice is housework or spending time with my kids, its not much of a choice. Since I was the sucker that had to clean no matter what, it didn't matter to me if it was now or tomorrow.

 

Getting married was when the real trouble started. Wolf was shocked that I didn't know how to sew (beyond mending a seam or putting on a button). He thought my being in health care meant I'd be anal about housework. Nope.

 

Finding Flylady was a huge help...til I fell off the wagon. I tried to get on again, but never quite made it.

 

Then I was injured. One armed housework is a challenge to say the least.

 

That being said, I *need* to find something that works. Unless or until Worker's Comp finally gets around to sending me 3 hrs of housekeeping a week (was supposed to happen a year ago), its on me. Wolf helps out, but its frustrating that I can't keep any sort of schedule, to do what I *can* do, when I *can* do it.

 

I think I'm going to invest in the indestructible Flylady timer. For all the timers I've bought that have died, I could have bought that one 3x over at least. I use it for housework, teaching, etc. I can manage just about anything for 10-15 mins at a time. One handed, anyways ;)

 

I'm going to borrow some of the Duggar systems too...the laundry one is the first. I can manage to haul laundry *down* the stairs, even the Littles help with that, but getting it *up* is the big problem. I'm envisioning keeping all the laundry down stairs. Bins for socks and underwear, hanging up pants and shirts. Would take a huge load off me, because instead of carrying baskets upstairs, my family roots through the baskets, spilling clean laundry all over the d**n floor, which then gets rewashed. :glare:

 

I'll be watching for Rubbermaid bins to go on sale again.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm another person struggling with this due to health. I suspect I would struggle with the clutter aspect anyway, though.

 

Here's how I deal with it. I am applying the "slow and steady" principle although I'm not winning any races by any means. I've "claimed" two areas to really work on in the cleanliness department - the kitchen and the bathroom.

 

I already had a basic kitchen routine but I've added cleaning the outside of one cabinet door each morning to my list. Even using 409 spray, this takes all my strength and stamina. It has taken me almost 3 weeks but I am now (today!) done with the fronts of all my cabinets and drawer fronts!!!!

 

In the bathroom, I am slowly working the same way on the tub in one bathroom and the shower pan in the other bathroom. I have scrubbed the shower pan with Softscrub for one week. It takes me that long because I have very little muscle strength and stamina. Today I used Zud for a couple of rust stains. I got one up but I suspect I'll be using Zud for the next few days to get up the other stains.

 

Once I get these areas clean I am adding them to our maintenance routines. I often use the kids to help maintain an area because it is much easier to maintain something than to get it really clean in the first place.

 

BTW - when I am in emergency mode with my health my dh does much of the work. And he's good. (He's much better at the decluttering area because he isn't sentimental about stuff like I am). But I've noticed that when I'm healthy, my deep clean is much deeper than his:)