Choosing a Math Curriculum. Expensive roulette?

[Stellalarella]

In front of me here I have the Singapore Math books that made both my first grader and me want to cry. Behind me on the shelf (gathering dust) I have The Alpha set of MUS. Sitting squarely on my shoulders is the math curriculum dilemma.

This year I am schooling not just 1 child, but four (K,2,4,6) and there are two more behind them. I would really like to have ONE curriculum for all. I would really like to pick the right one.

 

I am done whining now.

 

Saxon, anyone? Does Saxon work for anyone?

 

Does anyone on this forum use the same curriculum for more than 2 kids for more than 3 years consecutively?

[Lovedtodeath]

Well here I am after using Abeka, MUS and Horizons, currently using Math Mammoth, wishing I had started with McRuffy. ;)

 

I would trust McRuffy over any of those because I just found out that the reason we go through so many different ones is that my daughter has visual perception issues. McRuffy has exercises for that in their grade level curriculum, so I am wondering if we started with them would we even be having this issue. (I am just going to supplement, not get the whole grade level.)

 

Yes it is expensive!

[HFClassicalAcademy]

We actually really like Saxon and have been doing it since the beginning. I think it's important to find something and stick with it if it's getting the job done. But I also understand that kids learn differently and the benefit of homeschooling is the flexibility and ability we have to teach to our kids to match their needs.

 

This year we'll have a K, 1, & 3 with two little ones behind them. Only you know what will be best!! But we do like Saxon and plan on sticking with it!!

 

Liz

[Aubrey]

In front of me here I have the Singapore Math books that made both my first grader and me want to cry. Behind me on the shelf (gathering dust) I have The Alpha set of MUS. Sitting squarely on my shoulders is the math curriculum dilemma.

This year I am schooling not just 1 child, but four (K,2,4,6) and there are two more behind them. I would really like to have ONE curriculum for all. I would really like to pick the right one.

 

I am done whining now.

 

Saxon, anyone? Does Saxon work for anyone?

 

Does anyone on this forum use the same curriculum for more than 2 kids for more than 3 years consecutively?

 

I wanted to throw Saxon across the room both times I tried it, BUT I LOVE Singapore & don't really mind MUS that much.

 

My phil of math curric now (lol) is that I should (probably) choose curric *I* like, & I'll be able to pass that happiness on to my dc.

 

Singapore is gold for us, but I *know* that wouldn't be true for everyone. We're pretty quirky. Saxon is pretty tried & true, & it's usually on the shelf at 1/2 Price. If you live in a place that carries it, you could go skim thr whatever level they've got.

 

Another popular math prog that *seems* to be similarish to Saxon is Horizons. Seems like maybe a few more people on that end of the math spectrum prefer Horizons to Saxon. Could be my imagination.

 

Do you have a place, a hs bookstore, a friend--where you can go look at some of this in person? That might help.

[momof5]

I have. My children are almost the same ages as yours. We use saxon (not k) but from 1 on. My oldest just completed 65, my 9yo 54, and my 7yo just completed 3. It has kinda become my security blanket. Also, I find that the more I teach it, the better I get at it. Along the way, I did briefly try singapore and mus which were both a bit too untraditional for me. This summer, at dh's request, we are trying math from a different perspective. I have my rising 6th grader doing chalkdust basic, and my 7 and 9 yo doing math mammoth. I am loving both of them so far! The oldest 2 will also be doing epgy and a bit of problem solving with me. We are attempting to create our own mini math camp this summer. Our plan is to return to old faithful(saxon) in the fall. But we'll see where the Lord leads us. hth!

 

dc 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, and 1

currently using TOG, saxon, FLL, R&S grammar, MM, etc.

[Homeschooling6]

I'm using McRuffy Math with four dc but I just started three weeks ago :blush: so far I'm loving it. I have used or bought many math programs and McRuffy is the only one that I have really enjoyed teaching.

 

Some from the past are MUS (still like this choice and haven't sold my Blocks because ya'never know ;) just didn't work for my oldest because he didn't like the blocks. We did use it for four years :)

 

We also tried R&S math, Miquon (twice but still no go), Singapore (like CWP & IP but not the actual Singapore books) Math Mammoth (I loved this one but ds is not an out-of-the box thinker)

 

Currently my oldest is using Saxon (just started) *plan to have him continue with Saxon using Art Reed dvds. I already own 5/4, 6/5, 7/6 and 8/7.

 

My dd 2nd oldest is using TT (just started as well. She didn't like MM or CLE)

 

CLE (I liked this one but dd thought it was boring. She is loving TT. She likes using the computer for school) *my 3rd child ds used CLE for two years but thought I'd switch him to McRuffy because I liked that the manipulatives where scheduled in.

 

As stated above my four younger dc are using McRuffy Math :hurray: I'm not sure but for today ;) I plan to have them switch to Saxon once done with McRuffy. I think McRuffy will only go to 6th grade.

 

That's our story :D

Edited June 10, 2010 by Homeschooling6
*

[silliness7]

I toyed with Miquon, Making Math Meaningful and MUS. But primarily we used Developmental Math. As we got further into the program DM seemed too unorthodox to me, explaining things in an unfamiliar way and a scope & sequence that was off-kilter. So about a year and a half ago I switched all the kids to Saxon. (I also toyed with Saxon for the younger grades some years back and didn't like it either)

 

My oldest was in 6th grade at the time and started with 7/6. He is finishing up Algebra 1/2 this summer and will be moving into Algebra. I plan to continue using it all through highschool. I LOVE it and my kids don't complain about it any more than they did with any other program. They actually Hooray over investigations and test days. But they really hate it when the lesson practice is more than a couple of problems. Other than that, they know what to expect and they consistently score A's and B's on their tests. I wish I'd started with it sooner.

[Guest mama24monkeys]

I don't like Saxon K-3, but I LOVE Saxon 54 and up!! It is the perfect fit for my oldest who is moving into 87 this summer. I have Math Mammoth for the younger years and really like it. I REALLY hope my younger ones transition into Saxon well when they reach that level.

[lauracolumbus]

I feel the same way. I bought all the Singapore after the kids took a standardized test that had quirky word problems. I've used Saxon, MUS, and LOF all at the same time. I've used those workbooks from Sam's Club, I've used Football Math, Challenge Math, and now MM for my youngest. I now wish I had bought Horizons instead of downloading all of MM (gr, 3-6A) when it was on sale. I also have the RS math games and a slew of other products (I'm starting to get embarrassed just thinking of all the other items).

 

Saxon will be our touchstone from 5/4 on up. LOF will be for our summers. I just bought MUS Algebra dirt cheap and might just use it for myself. I'd love to work w/someone who has used Lials, but I honestly can't keep switching any more. I do love Saxon Teacher btw.

 

My kids don't like Saxon, and I hate the idea of them thinking math is a subject to dread, but it seems to do the best job teaching them. For us, I guess the biggest help in deciding which math program has been for me to figure out that they are spiral learners not mastery (which is why I wish had bought Horizons instead of MM).

 

Laura

[Mandy in TN]

All of my boys have used Saxon to some extent.

 

Saxon was not a great fit for the oldest, but he used 54, 65, and 76. I wish I had switched him sooner.

 

My middle ds used Saxon 2, 3, 54, 65, 76, and 87. I wish he had continued with Saxon. He also used Singapore PM.

 

Little ds has used 54, 65, and just started 76. He also uses Kumon math. I definitely plan to use 87 with him. Currently I plan to use alg1, alg2, and advanced math, but I waffle on this.

 

I wouldn't use Saxon prior to 54. It was designed for a classroom and is just too expensive (especially if you include a manipulative kit) for what it teaches. My youngest used a ton of stuff, but really they just need to know their basic addition/ subtraction facts, basic multiplication/ division facts, time (clocks, months, days), and basic shapes prior to 54.

 

For your K child just go up to the bookstore and buy Kumon workbooks.

If the K childs needs it, begin with tracing. If not, just work through these in this order.

 

My Book of Numbers 1-30

My Book of NUMBER GAMES 1-70

My Book of NUMBERS 1-120

Grade 1 Geometry & Measurement

My Book of SIMPLE ADDITION

 

(They didn't have the Geometry and Measurement book when my guy was little. We used the easy telling time and counting coins.) These workbooks are $7 new, so these 5 are a whopping $35. The only other thing you need for K is a calendar to learn days and months.

 

For 2nd grade again I would use inexpensive workbooks- if not Kumon workbooks the something else cheap like MM.

 

If I were to do over, I would still buy pattern blocks, duplos, wedgits, dominoes, dice, cuisenaire rods, and even multiplication flash cards, but I would not buy any expensive fancy math curriculum for elementary school.

 

Whenever they master the basics, start Saxon 54. Just keep in mind that Saxon only worked for 2 of my 3.

 

HTH-

Mandy

Edited June 10, 2010 by Mandy in TN

[cocoabean]

Oh, I hear you on the math dilemma that is sitting on your shoulders... that weight has been on my shoulders, too. It's difficult to figure out, but hopefully you will get your answers by hearing many replies to your post (wisdom in numbers).

 

We are grade 11 now, and have homeschooled since K. I don't have the the perfect math solution though I have sought it for years. Saxon nearly ruined my ds on math when he was lower grades. I don't have the multiple child dilemma that you have, so I don't have that perspective. But I do have some wisdom on the matter because I have been on the hs forums for years reading threads about math woes, and trying to console my internet friends through their tears and frustrations with math (it was pretty bad when all of us were crying about math woes, lol). My advice to you is, whatever you choose, stick with it at least through grade 6 (most publishers' scopes even out at grade 6 because they begin preparing the child in 7 for Algebra I-- this may or may not be true for MUS which has quite a different scope than most of the rest of them). Here's the warning: If you do flip-flop around in math curricula too often like I did, things will only grow worse, not better.

 

My ideas for you of programs I'm familiar with...

 

Saxon Math:

K-3 totally different format and writer than 4th grade and above

Spirals aggressively; sometimes must be heavily tweaked by the teacher decreasing the amount of spiraling, and word problems student does daily

Student work must be monitored even more closely when the curriculum has been tweaked to make sure they are understanding the materials as they are presented (understanding is necessary because much like building a foundation upon layers and it matters down the road)

 

Horizons Math, K-6:

Somewhat advanced scope, yet gentler than ABeka's

Spirals, but not aggressively, or excessively like Saxon

Workbook curriculum for all six grade levels (some do better with workbooks than writing out problems)

 

ABeka Math, K-12:

Advanced scope, spirals but in a gentler way than Saxon

Workbook curriculum with lively colors and good dialogue in student explanations

 

BJU:

Solid math, sort of finds a balance between mastery and spiraling (in review terms); some say too many manipulatives and materials, and too teacher intensive

 

Rod and Staff:

Mastery-based with built in review; relies on rote memorization of math facts and drills, some say drilling to the point of being excessive; somewhat teacher intensive, though maybe not quite so much as BJU; no workbooks in upper elementary grade levels

 

MUS:

Focuses on certain aspects of math in certain years with a non-traditional scope and sequence, which might lead to problems being able to place student easily into another math program down the road; some say there are leveling off points where the child can't get things solidified to go on into the next lesson or level

 

There are a few more math curricula that I've heard good things about, but never tried...

 

MCP

David Quine's Making Math Meaningful

Developmental Math

Life of Fred (must know the 4 operations first)

McRuffy

Miquon

Singapore (mixed feelings about this one -- it sounds good in some ways, but bad in others)

 

Gee, I hope I have clarified things instead of muddying the waters. I sure wish I could solve your math woes for you, but I can't. Having that dilemma is definitely not a fun place to be.

 

Hugs!!!

[Mom0012]

IDK, I think it is russian roulette. I had a friend that started out with McRuffy and loved it. Then she didn't and switched to MUS, which worked great for her daughter, but was too slow for her son. So now she's moving onto CLE or something else for him.

 

I started my son with Saxon and quickly moved to RS. I tried Singapore over the summer with him and then finally landed on R&S Math. Perfect! We've used levels 1 - 4 and are currently halfway through 5. I supplement, but now that I've found something that works for him, I will stick with it for as long as it continues to work even though there is always the temptation to try something new and "better".

 

My daughter began with Horizons and did okay, but didn't really care for it. Same with Singapore. We then did RS A - 3/4 of C and it was good, but by the end of C I could see she needed more written practice. Now she's using CLE and I can tell this is her perfect fit. We will stick with this probably until the end of the series. I may or may not supplement with her.

 

I know there are some families that are able to use the same math for all of their children. For me, I guess I'm not that great of a teacher and I'm really depending on the program to guide me, so it's got to fit my learner if we're going to avoid tears and frustration.

 

Lisa

[MelanieM]

I purchased grade 2 Math Mammoth for my daughter this past year and have been very impressed with it. When homeschool buyers co-op had it available for a discount I purchased the entire grade 1-6 package and intend to use it straight through with all my kids... assuming it works for the boys as well as my daughter, of course.

 

I love that the instructions are on the page, written to the student. I think this is an extremely easy program to work with, supporting both students who are independent and parents who aren't quite sure how to teach math. I think it would also be a really great program for older students teaching younger ones, if anyone has the type of age gap that lends itself to this. (I can see my math-loving daughter doing this with her baby brother 5 yrs from now!)

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

.

Saxon, anyone? Does Saxon work for anyone?

 

 

We did Saxon 6/5 and 1 this year, and I just wanted to tell you that I probably spent 2-3 hours a day actively doing math with my boys. I am not going with it again.

[JudoMom]

I've used Saxon since the beginning with all of my boys. This year I'll have one in 8/7, 7/6, 5/4, 3, and 1.

 

My older 2 boys are using Life of Fred this summer, and my middle son is using Math Mammoth worksheets as review. I've also supplemented with Evan Moor's Daily Word Problems.

 

I know Saxon can get a bad wrap, but it's thorough and it works for my boys.

[Dmmetler]

My DD's not even 6 yet, and I've already rejected, although thankfully not purchased

 

Saxon-DD went through Saxon K, 1, and part of 2 in K, as her teacher kept giving her the harder materials when it went back to something she'd mastered. I think if I pulled out a Saxon book now, DD would throw it at me!

 

Miquon-Maybe I just picked the wrong level? I had high hopes of using this for fun, summer math, but DD can't see the point of using the rods or of doing "that easy stuff" again.

 

MEP-I want to like it, I really do, but starting at the level DD wants to start at introduces a lot of notational things that don't entirely make sense even to me, and going back to start at 1 hits the "too easy for me" problem.

 

MUS-I didn't even show that one to DD. I'm practically the only person in my homeschool group who doesn't use it, but in seeing what they were raving about, it seemed to be exactly wrong for my child who loves pictures, doesn't see much point in manipulatives, and hates repetition, thriving on challenge.

 

 

So far Singapore seems to be working well for her. I'm hoping it lasts at least until we're looking at pre-algebra.

[RahRah]

My DD's not even 6 yet, and I've already rejected, although thankfully not purchased

 

Saxon-DD went through Saxon K, 1, and part of 2 in K, as her teacher kept giving her the harder materials when it went back to something she'd mastered. I think if I pulled out a Saxon book now, DD would throw it at me!

 

Miquon-Maybe I just picked the wrong level? I had high hopes of using this for fun, summer math, but DD can't see the point of using the rods or of doing "that easy stuff" again.

 

MEP-I want to like it, I really do, but starting at the level DD wants to start at introduces a lot of notational things that don't entirely make sense even to me, and going back to start at 1 hits the "too easy for me" problem.

 

MUS-I didn't even show that one to DD. I'm practically the only person in my homeschool group who doesn't use it, but in seeing what they were raving about, it seemed to be exactly wrong for my child who loves pictures, doesn't see much point in manipulatives, and hates repetition, thriving on challenge.

 

 

So far Singapore seems to be working well for her. I'm hoping it lasts at least until we're looking at pre-algebra.

 

My DS-5 sounds very much like your DD....doesn't want to keep doing the "easy stuff" and isn't at all interested in using manipulatives and wants to be challenged.

 

We were doing Saxon 1, but I realized DS was bored to pieces with the repetition - even if I supplemented or skipped ahead - it wasn't the math that was the problem, it was the constant repetition of mastered concepts that was frustrating him. Even though he was at one place in Saxon, we did so much oral stuff, he was way ahead of where he was in the workbook, so I was constantly having to assess and skip him ahead to more challenging stuff.

 

While I haven't tried a lot of programs, I've looked at MUS and it's not going to work for DS, nor will Miquon. I finally settled on trying Singapore and it arrived a couple of days ago. As I was thumbing through the textbook, DS cuddled up next to me and starts looking at the pages - and within an hour, we literally blew through the 1A textbook - so I picked the wrong book to start with, but did get 1B also and we'll start there once we get through weights and measures (last two sections of 1A) which I haven't spent much time on with DS yet.

 

I have high hopes for Singapore....DS's reaction to the books was positive and he did enjoy going through 1A with confidence as he orally answered the various problems presented. We'll see how it goes - I really don't want to make another switch, but I do think it comes down to what piques a child's interest and intensity to keep learning more.

[MamaT]

I have used Saxon with all 6 of my children since 1995 (well not 1-3 for the oldest two, it wasn't out yet). They have scored very high every year on their standardized tests and the olders have gone on to college math with no problems.

 

This year, I did buy LoF for my oldest dd who HATES math and was taking 1 1/2 hours a day to do one problem set. She is doing LoF over the summer, loving it, and asking to do their Algebra I next year instead of Saxon. This is taking me WAY out of my comfort zone. I have never switched math programs before. I am thinking I will let her do the LoF and test her periodically with the tests from Saxon. If it doesn't work and her end of year test scores reflect that, then she will do Saxon Algebra I the next year. That is my plan right now, anyway. :001_smile:

[Matryoshka]

Does anyone on this forum use the same curriculum for more than 2 kids for more than 3 years consecutively?

 

I have very happily used the same math curriculum for three kids from pre-K through 6th... but it's Singapore. We love it here, but if it's making you cry, it's probably not the right fit for you. Good luck finding what works for you! :)

 

I tend to not curriculum-hop much at all, but I do spend a ton of time researching before I buy to get a feel for if the curriculum has the kind of content/approach that I want, and "meshes" with both me and the kids. You have to know what kinds of things excite you and what kind of things turn you off.

 

Since joining these boards, it's been helpful to look at posts from other people who are using curriculum I like in one subject, and see what they're using in another. (Helpful, and expensive!)

[LinRTX]

I have used Saxon for 4 kids now. I started my son in high school, but the others all start with Saxon 2 (one in K and the other 2 in 1st). Two of the four have graduated, one has a degree in EE and the next will start her senior year in college in Aug. in IT. Both those children had college GPAs of at least 3.9. The next child is going to be a senior in high school. I'm debating doing Saxon Calculus with her (I did it with the older two.) She is going into nursing and doesn't really need it, but it is the next step.

 

The youngest just turned 10 and is finishing Saxon 65.

 

So I have been using Saxon for a long time and with very different learners. All have done well with it. We use it as a base. If a child needs more help with a topic, we may camp there for a few days and then go back to the Saxon book.

 

Linda

[fractalgal]

 

Saxon, anyone? Does Saxon work for anyone?

 

Does anyone on this forum use the same curriculum for more than 2 kids for more than 3 years consecutively?

 

Saxon 1-3 worked successfully for 2 of my children - both gifted. I did adapt and combine it with Singapore though so it wasn't exclusively Saxon.

 

My daughter used some of Saxon 7/6 last year. She did not enjoy it but was scoring high on her work. She also used Singapore at that time. I think I may have placed her in the wrong level since she tested into 8/7 but I made the decision to put her into 7/6 because I wanted to keep her closer to grade level.

 

I decided to have her use Russian Math 6 instead. RM6 stays with a topic longer and goes more deeply into concepts than Saxon did. It was a very good choice for this child.

 

I think all math programs have their strengths and weaknesses. Saxon is strong in review and some students learn better with its incremental approach.

 

I have always combined curricula. I have never used Saxon alone, but I've never used Singapore alone either.

 

Good luck.:)

[NanceXToo]

Looking through Saxon 5/4 for my 9 y/o daughter to use this coming fall when she goes into fifth grade, I could tell it was going to make us both absolutely miserable. Very long, dry, textbookish, technical, etc.

 

I knew if I used it, we'd both hate math (as opposed to just not loving math).

 

After reading, researching, looking online, weighing all the reviews (good and bad) against my family's capabilities, interests, and needs, I decided to go with Teaching Textbooks for the fall (also known as "TT" around here).

 

We looked at the demos and samples on their site, my daughter tried it out, and we both fell in love with it. I've got a huge sense of relief because of it, and she's got a huge sense of excitement (about math! Who'd have thought!) and can't wait to start using it.

 

Some people think it isn't the "strongest" math program you can use. Well, maybe that's true, I don't know if it is, but I don't care. My daughter's only 9. My goal for her is to understand the math she's doing and not hate the math she's doing (no tears, no misery, no "I'm bad at math!" comments). I believe Teaching Textbooks will do that for her (and for me). And that is worth its weight in gold.

 

IF it is the case that when she gets older she's looking at some sort of career path or whatever that seems like she needs more advanced math, and she and I start feeling like TT isn't doing for her what she needs, then I will be happy to look into whatever I need to look into for her, be that videos, tutors, some sort of class, whatever. At that age, feeling like it's more her choice, she'll have a good foundation to start wading her way through whatever it is she feels she still needs to learn or whatever direction she feels she should go in. Without crying about it. ;) But that may never be the case and I think she may do just fine using TT.

 

If you don't know what TT is, you get computer discs (along with the consumable workbook) where she will first watch a "lecture," then try some sample problems, and then do the lesson itself. The friendly computerized tutor will explain to her exactly what she needs to do (much more clearly and patiently than I can, for sure, as I'm not very mathy myself!) while giving her a visual example too of how to do it. If she gets it wrong or needs it explained again, it will show her how to get the answer step by step- both audio and visual explanations.

 

What's more, in the elementary grades anyway, it keeps a gradebook for you. You can see what they got wrong, what their grades were, etc. It has period quizzes in between the lessons, too.

 

We're both very excited about using it.

[Stellalarella]

Thanks, all for the help. I sincerely enjoy hearing people talk about the curriculums they enjoy--and the ones they have rejected.

 

I wish I could plug in my general teaching viewpoints/abilities + my kids' inclinations + my budget + unknown future events + standardized testing into a handy dandy equation that could explain it all.

 

Failing that, I've got to do some more research and some prayer! :)

[Crimson Wife]

I wish I could plug in my general teaching viewpoints/abilities + my kids' inclinations + my budget + unknown future events + standardized testing into a handy dandy equation that could explain it all.

 

Not to mention that the student's inclinations can change over time. The child who at the beginning of K5 was very much a "hands-on" learner could very well turn into a 2nd semester 2nd grader who groans each time the Right Start manipulatives get taken out and asks: "Can't you just show me how to do it on paper?"

[TheModestMom]

When I was homeschooled I did Saxon, but I have my children in MUS because it makes so much more sense to me than Saxon. That being said, I might switch them in high school to saxon just to make sure they understand how to do normal math problems...I'll have to wait and see as that is a long way off!

[Beth in SW WA]

Multiple math programs will help our dc in the long run. Bits & pieces from different publishers will create more work for me to organize/teach but I'm hoping this experiment works.

 

Dd 7 is doing TT 3, Horizons 1 & 2 workbooks pages, Singapore 2, Rainbow Rock, RS games & abacus activities. Phew. Keeps life interesting.:001_smile:

 

TT is great for at night. She does 2 lessons/evening. Love it! At this pace, we should be in TT 4 by Nov. AND dd 6 does 3 TT 3 lessons/week. Computer-math (as we call it) is a 'treat' for the girls.

 

Andrea, yes. Prayer, too. You nailed it. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I really think that it would help to look into resources for Dyscalculia and/or Visual Perceptual Skills. The book I read says that kids who struggle in math usually need help in this area and the problems associated with Visual Perception and math fit Emily to a T and then the test of Visual Perceptual Skills confirmed it. It is something that other kids learn naturally, but they don't... like needing speech therapy. It did say, though, that after they reach a certain age they will have the VS skills in place, but still be behind in math.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Susan in TX]

I use Developmental Math. I switched to it from R&S when my oldest was in 1st and I've used it ever since. It is the only curriculum that I've used for all of my kids. I have graduated four from this curriculum into pre-Algebra and have four currently using it. It is inexpensive, and very simple to implement.

 

Susan in TX

[momto2Cs]

We are devout Saxon users here. Occasionally I have questioned this, but then my kids bring me right back to Saxon. Prior to buying Saxon 5/4 for ds, I showed him samples of Math Mammoth, Singapore, Teaching Textbooks, and more, and he chose Saxon.

 

I think the incremental, spiral approach really works. My kids get the concepts, and have constant review. Both like having mixed problems on every page.

[FO4UR]

I really think that it would help to look into resources for Dyscalculia and/or Visual Perceptual Skills. The book I read says that kids who struggle in math usually need help in this area and the problems associated with Visual Perception and math fit Emily to a T and then the test of Visual Perceptual Skills confirmed it. It is something that other kids learn naturally, but they don't... like needing speech therapy. It did say, though, that after they reach a certain age they will have the VS skills in place, but still be behind in math.

 

My ds7 has had a a full dev. exam from an Optometrist who specializes in Vision Therapy and scored in the 8th percentile for visual discrimination and was borderline in several other areas. A math that requires lots of "reading"...esp having lots of tiny problems on one page...will BOMB here. Yet, he makes conceptual leaps like it's child's play. He can do drills orally like a pro...on paper, notsomuch. He's a "mathy" thinker. He explained to dh at lunch today all about pi and round tables and circumference...(Thanks to "Sir Cumference":tongue_smilie:)...he sees it/gets it/understands it better than I ever did (even in highschool LOL). And yet...I just have to come to peace with the fact that I can't hand him a workbook and expect him to work through sequentially and grasp the info to HIS best ability (no matter how hard he *tries*). I'm working my tail off so he doesn't fall behind in math waiting for his eyes to catch up (phonics too btw). He's slightly far-sighted...he will probably never ever need to wear glasses b/c as his eyes age he will pretty much settle in at 20/20 vision (runs in my family, lucky me:001_smile:). I am really curious to see how God uses his unique gifts when he grows up...but for right now, he doesn't see print well! Pairing him with a straight sequential, parts-to-whole, program that is based on reading lots of tiny numbers on a busy page is NOT what he needs, yet that describes MOST math curricula (and I've tried a few). If I were to judge his "mathiness" soley based on how much he loves/hates Saxon or Math Mammoth, he might miss out BIG TIME.

 

My dd5 is a different learner, I think. I'm prepared to use different resources for her. (...and get some use out of the stuff that didn't work for ds7. LOL)

 

It *is* like a game of roulette. I'm sitting here at the end of 1st grade, making an educated guess as to how to prepare for him for his future (and I don't know what he wants to be when he grows up???). I can only use what I know about my dc, glean wisdom from other HSers who have btdt, and research research research materials before I buy.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you so much for all of that Paula! What have you been using? We tried MUS and that was even worse. :o

[Laura W.]

:grouphug:

 

I feel your pain. I've struggled to find the "right" math program, too.

 

"I" loved Miquon and RS, but they didn't fit my dc well, (plus RS became too time-intensive for me as I added more dc). I have 2 dc who need spiral and very incremental programs. Another does well with computer based curricula. A couple would do okay with other things, but - well, it's easier for me to have them doing the same programs as their siblings, and that's an important factor, too.

 

Anyway, this year my older dc are using Teaching Textbooks. I have my twins doing Complete Book of Math, grades 1-2 combined with lessons from How to Teach Math to Your First and Second Grader. When they're ready, they'll move into Teaching Textbooks.

 

Blessings,

 

Laura

[FO4UR]

Thank you so much for all of that Paula! What have you been using? We tried MUS and that was even worse. :o

 

Miquon. The discovery approach, the *lack* of a set scope and sequence, the concrete 3D nature of the C Rods...the focus on observing your child and following their lead (not doing what they WANT, but truly observing what they know, don't know, and need to know next).

 

Singapore CWP and RS Games. I don't do either program in all it's glory, just the parts that meet a need.

 

 

MEP has good stuff to "pull" from. I want to rip my hair out if I try to do everything as written with him...I pull the interesting things out and put them up on a white board. The format of the student pages is not conducive to learning for him (tiny print...lots of things on one page...).

 

 

Last, but not least...I print out pages for him of 10-20 basic +-x/ problems, on the EASY side and in BIG print. This is to simply to force him to "read" the math. I kid you not, it is night and day what he does on paper and what goes on in his head. I seperate the "reading" from the real life and mental math, but I still push him to grow in his weak spot. When I can see he's fatigued, I'll be the scribe for him, but I MAKE him read the problem and tell me the answer...he tries to manipulate me into verbalizing the problem all.the.time. (he still reverses numbers a LOT too...he has better success if I have him write out the numerals 0-9 before beginning this)

 

So, he's got a steady diet of concept building work (Miquon), problem solving fodder (CWP & MEP), and drill (RS Games & my homemade drill sheets).

 

One more thing...living math books. The Sir Cumference series is very good. He is loving those now. Richard Scarry's Best Counting Book Ever is FAN-TAS-TIC!!! It might be too "babyish" for an 8yo, but perhaps she will tolerate it if for the sake of the 3yo in your siggie. The thing I love about this book is the way the illustrations are organized. It is one big visual for +-x/ concepts that is approachable for little ones. I need to find more living math b/c these types of books really pull it together...giving it the WHOLE first for the whole-to-parts type of learner.

 

I'm not an expert at teaching math. Like I said, I'm just a mom standing here at the end of 1st grade making decisions for *my* ds7 that will impact the rest of his life. :eek: Expensive Roulette, guinea pig, grand experiment, ....all these things "resonate" with me right now.:001_huh: :lol:

 

If I had $300 sitting around, I would try out Math on the Level. I am imagining that it organizes neatly what I'm setting out to do on my own, which is basically set a scope and sequence for the needs of one specific child.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you. I have wondered about Math on the Level as well.

[selh09]

Thank you. I have wondered about Math on the Level as well.

 

We used Saxon K, loved it!! Got half through Saxon 1 and it was not as "fun" as Saxon K. We switched to Math on The Level and we are LOVING IT!!!

Math on The Level let's you as the parent move at your child's pace. If your child is struggling with a concept, you can stop and let it "simmer" or if they are breezing through a concept, you can move on. You as the parent determines how much review your child needs, so if your child truly understands a concept then there is no need for constant review. Again, if your child is struggling with a concept you can review as much as needed. I love that it takes math and uses real life application.

 

As for the price, it is expensive up front, but the curriculum covers Pre-K through Pre-Algebra.

 

Another thing that I like about MoTL is, there are no textbooks or worksheets. You generate your own child's worksheets based on what they need to review. I love that each concept has multiple ways to teach that concept, so you can really utilize the different angles to teach a math concept, from manipulative use in the younger grades to mental math in the upper grades. It really gives the student a chance to explore math. If you are interested in MoTL, the MoTL yahoo group is GREAT http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mathonthelevel/ I joined before I bought it to ask some questions and to read up on it. Everyone was so helpful and I did learn a lot. I still ask questions and everyone is so willing to pitch in and help out with ideas. The author of the curriculum frequently responds to questions on the group and that is a big plus!

 

I hope this helps and I haven't :bored: you with me rambling!! :D

[Lovedtodeath]

As for the price, it is expensive up front, but the curriculum covers Pre-K through Pre-Algebra.

I hope this helps and I haven't :bored: you with me rambling!! :D

No... thanks. It just seems like an awfully big risk. I wish there was a way to use it for a while without the big pay out.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

No... thanks. It just seems like an awfully big risk. I wish there was a way to use it for a while without the big pay out.

They have a 60 day money back guarantee. You could also buy part of it instead of the entire program.

[selh09]

No... thanks. It just seems like an awfully big risk. I wish there was a way to use it for a while without the big pay out.

 

They have a 60 day return policy. I know that's not a real long time, but longer than most companies.....:)

[TracyR]

I don't know about everyone else but Saxon is working just fine for all four of my children. I am able to adapt it when I need to. My oldest doesn't have to do all of the problems to get it. My 2nd and 3rd daughters need to do all of the problems to get it... etc.

 

I am using Saxon K , 1 , 5/4 and 6/5 in my home right now.

The elementary levels are actually easier to use then most people think. I don't use it word for word. I just read the manual first and then teach it myself. Most times I use the front page. I've even adapted the Meeting Book to my wall.

[selh09]

I've even adapted the Meeting Book to my wall.

 

I did this and it helped. I still use it! I even got a couple of my ideas from you Tracy!! ;) :D

[skaterbabs]

We use CLE for all three kids, and will stay with them through the 800 level. (The high school levels are not the Sunrise editions, so we'll switch in high school.)

 

The program is academically excellent, well written, independent and inexpensive. For the cost of one level of Saxon, you can buy three levels of CLE, which has been a major thing for us because Dot went through two levels this year. :p

 

In the 100 level, the layout is very simple and definitely underwhelming. There is a lot of white space on each page, and a large font. As the levels go up, the white space & font size decrease slowly, but even in the 700 level it's not tight and cluttered, IMO.

Edited June 19, 2010 by skaterbabs

[Stellalarella]

:bigear: Still listening!

[buddhabelly]

I would highly recommend Right Start Math. I homeschooled my son grade 1-5 (K was public school, which, uh, spurred us on to homeschooling). Out of everything we did those five years, Right Start Math stands out. He has a deep conceptual understanding of math and is able to manipulate numbers easily. Now that it is summer, sometimes I give him math and he says things like, "I didn't even need to do long division on that problem, Mom. I just figured that _________________." So he really understands it.

 

But the real reason that I would recommend it for your family is that they can play the games together. The first grade games are still fun for an older child, and the more children you have around, the more fun the games are! By the way, you do not need to buy the "Games" book until Level C (or maybe even D, I can't remember). But they are all included in Level B (and possibly C).

 

Best of luck and enjoy your mathematics journey.

 

ETA: Well, your 6th grader might not be able to jump right into RS Math. But perhaps he/she could teach your younger and thus "re-learn" math? And then Singapore wouldn't make your first grader cry?

 

Julie

[Guest]

After trying just about every single math out there, we hit upon CLE. It is independent from level 300 on, workbook format all the way through 12th (they are writing Sunrise editions for all grades), cheap, excellent and spiral a bit like Saxon without being overwhelming. My sons LOVE it! This one works. I HIGHLY recommend it.

[skaterbabs]

After trying just about every single math out there, we hit upon CLE. It is independent from level 300 on, workbook format all the way through 12th (they are writing Sunrise editions for all grades), cheap, excellent and spiral a bit like Saxon without being overwhelming. My sons LOVE it! This one works. I HIGHLY recommend it.

 

At the HEAV convention I asked when the Sunrise editions would be available for high school. The answer was that they are working on Alg. 1 now, and it MAY be available in time for my 6 yo, but that above that probably wouldn't be for some time.