Did you read the NYT piece on student debt and comments that Jane linked?

[jld]

I am being blown away by the comments! How about you?

[Entropymama]

Haven't read it.. can you post a link?

[scubamama]

I'd love to read that article. Can someone post a link pretty please?

My dh was a college prof at a $$$$ east coast school (an "almost" ivy league). The kids there were spending (or their parents were!) $45,000 a year! Unbelievable....I thought $7,000 at the state school I went to was a lot :tongue_smilie: (but that's b/c I had to pay for it myself!)

 

Happy Memorial Day everyone!

[jld]

I don't know how to link, but Jane linked it on the student debt thread (it's post #92).

[Snickerdoodle]

Here is the link:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/your-money/student-loans/29money.html?src=me&ref=business

 

 

Click on the pink piggy to see the comments.

[jld]

Thank you, Snickerdoodle!

[cathmom]

I'm reading through the comments now!

 

I have to say, the one about "living in the right city now is as important to her as going to the right college was before" really struck home. Why does a person choose to live in SF if this is her financial situation? Why doesn't she go home, live in her mom's B&B, get a job, help her mom, and pay back her loans?

[Heather in WI]

I haven't read the comments yet, but will do so in a minute.

 

The first thing that struck me was, "how on earth did she (or the bank!) expect to pay back a $100,000 loan with a degree in religious and women’s studies?"

[LibraryLover]

what kind of work was she planning to do while in college? Was she thinking grad school? Teaching? What?

 

I know this girl thinks living in SF and making $22/hr is the coolest thing ever, but if she were mine (and I hope she wouldn't be), I would 'encourage' her to come home, help in the B & B, take any other job/s and start making a dent in those loans. If she helped in the B &B she wouldn't have to pay rent. Any money she made could be put towards the debt. Even if she had no debt, she cant live easily in SF on that salary. I hope she paid cash for her bike.

Edited May 31, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Murphy101]

I'm reading through the comments now!

 

I have to say, the one about "living in the right city now is as important to her as going to the right college was before" really struck home. Why does a person choose to live in SF if this is her financial situation? Why doesn't she go home, live in her mom's B&B, get a job, help her mom, and pay back her loans?

 

:iagree:

 

I have some student loan debt. I will be paying it back. We used to allot a portion of every tax refund to it. When we had income.:(

 

It's no where near that though and a LOT of things happened that changed my situation back then. When I took the debt ($10k now after a decade of interest) I didn't know that in 6 months my dh would loose his job and my mother would come live her last days with us. Such is life. I don't blame anyone except my own stupid self. We are both very anti-debt now and that's the only debt we have outside of mortgage.

 

But I don't feel for the article subject and tend to agree with the commenters.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Wow. I think responsibility lies with the student. Possible earning definitely needs to be considered when taking on debt. This girl could work for a photographer WITHOUT a degree for goodness sakes. She isn't even working in her field. I know that there are many people not working in their field, but exactly what did she think she'd be doing with a degree in religious and women's studies?

 

I have school debt, and will be taking on more in the next two years. But my chosen profession has earning power of 50-70K (as long as I can get a job!), and I've accepted that for the first couple years after school I will have to continue to live on a tight budget to get the loans all paid off. I won't be living in SF, NYC, or anything like that! Even looking at graduate schools, one of my considerations is the cost of living in each place.

[Kate in Arabia]

I can understand the student's thinking at the time; it seems to be the age when you feel indestructable and like everything will just fall into place. When I was deciding on colleges, my first choice was an ivy league school where I had been accepted; but my parents sat me down and said that unfortunately there was just no way we could afford it, and as much as they wanted to, there was no way for them to meet the difference. They did the best they could, calling the school and lobbying for more help, but if it isn't there it isn't there. It was a hard lesson for all of us, I imagine it didn't make my parents feel very good that they couldn't help make this happen for me. I ended up at a good state school (not my state), so had a debt at the end a bit over $20,000.

 

What killed me was after graduating I went to univ in Egypt. Like the woman in the article who is in night school, they deferred my payments but interest still accrued. At the time I think I kind of brushed that off, but interest accruing on $20,000+ for an entire year -- that's a lot of money! And it's not even as much as the woman in the article here is facing in principle, how much interest is accruing for her?!

 

At the end I had some $30,000+ to pay back. After grad school (free ride, and deferred payments and interest, so nothing extra there) dh and I buckled down and made a concentrated effort to get rid of it all. So he basically took on my debt as being his own, and with both of us working (and no kids) we were able to pay all of it off in a few years. But we also rented, and bought clunkers to drive around in.

 

College payment is weighing heavily on my mind now, as my oldest approaches highschool age.

[cathmom]

I just wasted a whole bunch of time reading all those comments. They were more intelligent than I thought. I'm not entirely on the side of the Personal Responsibility Crusaders, but I don't think she and her mom get off scot-free. This is a serious, serious problem and these costs of college need to come down or at least stop rising!

[Renee in NC]

I made some really, really stupid decisions about student loans over about 10 years total. I will be paying them back forever and ever! However, I am not about to blame the school for my stupidity! I had very good reasons at the time for doing things the way I did them, but looking back I needed some guidance.

 

I ended up with a fairly worthless degree and some more practical graduate credits. If I were to go back to work right now, my experience would get me father than my degree (which isn't even in my career field!)

[FairProspects]

I just wasted a whole bunch of time reading all those comments. They were more intelligent than I thought. I'm not entirely on the side of the Personal Responsibility Crusaders, but I don't think she and her mom get off scot-free. This is a serious, serious problem and these costs of college need to come down or at least stop rising!

 

 

:iagree:

Its not just a matter of working your way through school anymore! It is just far, far more expensive to go to college than most people expect or can afford, even at state schools!!

[Jane in NC]

I see all parties at fault. Yes, the student should have gone into the situation with greater understanding. Yes, her parent should have helped her achieve some financial savvy. But why, oh why, does the university lead students to private lenders to take on debt which they, the students or their families, cannot handle? The university has a complete financial snapshot in their hands via FAFSA or the CSS Profile. There is something unconscionable to me about schools actively promoting these large loans. The suggestion was made (in the article? in the comments?) that universities received kickbacks from the private lenders. I find this to be outrageous.

 

Now I do not think that the student should be forgiven the debt if she was naive enough to assume it. (Caveat: my sister-in-law was forgiven certain med school debts by working at a reservation. A friend was forgiven podiatrist school debt by moving to a rural community with few health practitioners and high diabetes rates. I think these relationships which encourage professionals to work in rural or isolated communities to be reasonable.)

 

I am one who believes in education for education's sake, i.e. that college is not a trade school. My son will be going to a liberal arts college in the fall, funded in part by merit aid. The balance will be paid from money that we have saved, my son's savings, etc. If our financial picture were to change, he may have to assume some debt (minimal). I will be the first to admit that we have probably scrimped on some things over the past eighteen years to put money aside for my son's education. This is how important education is to me personally. Fortunately my son is a hyper-saver, viewing college as a priority as well.

 

My advice to parents is to start at birth, saving all those little $5 and $20 gifts. Granted, interest rates have been stinky lately, but over time these savings will grow. Buy some stock if you have the stomach for it. When you look back on it, you can weigh the value of this nest egg against a stack of plastic toys or electronic games. What is more valuable to you?

[kalanamak]

I don't know about now, but 20 years ago NYU was full of hip beautiful people and a party somewhere every night. Just last year this made the news:

 

http://www.tressugar.com/Police-View-40000-Dumb-Party-Photos-Guess-Cause-Fire-3174314

 

Looks like the place has not changed.

 

And SF to live? Geez Louise. I really wanted to move there and be hip when I was 18 but I knew very well I couldn't afford it. I stayed in Kansas. I see this article as a stroke under my vote of delaying college until you are smart enough to have a clue about it.

 

 

I think the writer of this article could have picked a much more thought-provoking subject for this topic....perhaps a few students instead of one who garners no sympathy.

[cathmom]

:iagree:

Its not just a matter of working your way through school anymore! It is just far, far more expensive to go to college than most people expect or can afford, even at state schools!!

 

We have a really good state school in the town where my dh works, which is a half hour from where we live. The only "live-at-home option" my dc have without needing to buy a car and incur all of those expenses would be to ride into town with my dh in the morning and come home when he comes home at the end of the day. This is assuming that my dc can get in to this school. My oldest applied, and despite me being an alumni, he did not get in. There goes that option. So, assuming my dc can get in, live at home and commute with my dh, it would be $8000 a year minimum. And that is next year's cost! By the time my dc are college age (the next closest one is 4 years away) that could double! All of my dc have mutual funds, set up by mil. My oldest's was enough to buy him the laptop that is required for school now. My third child's hadn't grown enough before September 11, and is currently less than the amount mil put in originally! We live under the poverty level and currently cannot save anything towards college for our dc. But even if we could, who besides the very rich can save enough for even one child's college education??

[RoughCollie]

I read the article and came away feeling miffed. The author chose a controversial person on whom to focus. There are real problems with the student loan system/government guarantees/college tuition/for-profit institutions. Those problems are getting lost in the controversy over the person/persons profiled in the article (and others like it).

[Mejane]

Now I do not think that the student should be forgiven the debt if she was naive enough to assume it. (Caveat: my sister-in-law was forgiven certain med school debts by working at a reservation. A friend was forgiven podiatrist school debt by moving to a rural community with few health practitioners and high diabetes rates. I think these relationships which encourage professionals to work in rural or isolated communities to be reasonable.)

 

 

 

Miss Cortney is living in San Francisco, an expensive city for anyone to live in, especially someone with $100K debt who earns $22/hour. It sounds to me like she wants more to winge about her bad luck than do whatever it takes to fix the situation. I don't see a reservation, urban school or rural anything in her future. Heck, she won't even move home to live with mom. :glare:

[Aubrey]

I got no advice from my mom about my degree choices/debt--she was simply glad I was going. The refrain back then (not so long ago) was--get a degree--get ANY degree. The focus doesn't matter because you won't end up working in your field any way. You go to school at all costs.

 

All I'm saying is--some kids genuinely don't know what their career prospects will be or how to figure that out even. They think they HAVE to go to college & they HAVE to borrow to do so. Who's going to counsel them otherwise when parents don't know better & everybody else--banks, schools--is getting rich off of the kids' ignorance?

[Jane in NC]

I just wasted a whole bunch of time reading all those comments. They were more intelligent than I thought. I'm not entirely on the side of the Personal Responsibility Crusaders, but I don't think she and her mom get off scot-free. This is a serious, serious problem and these costs of college need to come down or at least stop rising!

 

Miss Cortney is living in San Francisco, an expensive city for anyone to live in, especially someone with $100K debt who earns $22/hour. It sounds to me like she wants more to winge about her bad luck than do whatever it takes to fix the situation. I don't see a reservation, urban school or rural anything in her future. Heck, she won't even move home to live with mom. :glare:

 

I am not condoning her behavior. As I said, I do not believe her debt should be forgiven because of her naivete or stupidity. But I do think that focusing on this one example removes us from the more important discussion. As cathmom noted, the cost of college is a huge problem; but I also see the collusion of universities with banks which give these massive loans to students who cannot begin to afford repayment as another serious problem.

[Jane in NC]

 

All I'm saying is--some kids genuinely don't know what their career prospects will be or how to figure that out even. They think they HAVE to go to college & they HAVE to borrow to do so. Who's going to counsel them otherwise when parents don't know better & everybody else--banks, schools--is getting rich off of the kids' ignorance?

 

Precisely. Talking to my husband about the NY Times article, he asked "Who is the adult here?" Ideally one hopes that a parent can guide a student. But if a parent cannot, one would think that the financial aid office which offer greater assistance. In many of the comments following the article, posters noted that they never received advice; rather, they were told to "sign here". The ramifications of their signature were not properly explained.

[Kate in Arabia]

I also see the collusion of universities with banks which give these massive loans to students who cannot begin to afford repayment as another serious problem.

 

Do students still get bombarded with credit card applications? I remember as an undergrad getting just a *ton* of "pre-approved" credit card applications. It just seemed so wrong to me, like they were preying on people who a) wanted easy money and b) didn't always have a sense of the longterm implications or weren't savvy enough to read the fine print.

[Jane in NC]

 

Do students still get bombarded with credit card applications? I remember as an undergrad getting just a *ton* of "pre-approved" credit card applications. It just seemed so wrong to me, like they were preying on people who a) wanted easy money and b) didn't always have a sense of the longterm implications or weren't savvy enough to read the fine print.

 

My son, who will be a college freshman in the fall, just received a credit card application with the line, "This is your opportunity to learn to use credit responsibly." We shredded the application.

[Mejane]

I am not condoning her behavior. As I said, I do not believe her debt should be forgiven because of her naivete or stupidity. But I do think that focusing on this one example removes us from the more important discussion. As cathmom noted, the cost of college is a huge problem; but I also see the collusion of universities with banks which give these massive loans to students who cannot begin to afford repayment as another serious problem.

 

Oh, I agree that the whole system needs an overhaul. I'm willing to bet Cortney represents thousands, however. There is a huge entitlement mentality in many of these kids, whether they're saying, "I should only go to the best (read most expensive) uni," or "I certainly wouldn't work for that little," or "There's no way I'm moving back in with mom and dad," or "I can't be expected to pay all these loans back!"

 

Unfortunately, I have several nieces and nephews with this very mindset. :glare:

[KristenS]

I think college is just plain too expensive. :(

 

My dh and I went to our local state university (a good one, at least for his field). He got a full-tuition scholarship. I enrolled later (I'm younger) and got the unlucky year with fewer scholarships. I did receive a grant towards part of my tuition, with the stipulation that I'd work in a particular field for a particular length of time as 'repayment'. The rest I worked and saved for. Dh also worked through college, in internships mostly.

 

The only college debt we came away with was mine, the grant... and when we determined that I wouldn't be doing that job after all, by the deadline, we made calls to try to set up repayment before any crazy fees or interest would kick in. And they were so underfunded they didn't even have an office to accept the money back! We were told to just let it go. (This had sure better not bite us some thirty years down the road! We did our best!)

 

Now, that same local university has all sorts of stupid policies, including requiring even local freshman to live on campus and purchase expensive meal plans ... they are working on repealing some of this due to the outcry, but it's an outrageous amount of money on top of the already outrageous tuition hikes. We seriously doubt our kids will be able to afford the same college, and working one's way through sure looks harder and harder!

 

The state pre-paid tuition plan collapsed, too. So much for that. (At least we hadn't yet put in to that.)

 

We do have some funds set aside specially, but given the rising costs ... it won't cover much. I am hoping there will be more and more options by then ... distance learning, more acceptance of mentoring and apprenticeships, and things like that. I think once colleges get some serious competition from serious academic scholarly alternatives (not just trade schools or skipping college altogther), they might start using those Ph.D's to figure a way to make college financing sane again.

 

We can hope, anyway.

[cathmom]

I am not condoning her behavior. As I said, I do not believe her debt should be forgiven because of her naivete or stupidity. But I do think that focusing on this one example removes us from the more important discussion. As cathmom noted, the cost of college is a huge problem; but I also see the collusion of universities with banks which give these massive loans to students who cannot begin to afford repayment as another serious problem.

 

Exactly! My dh and I have made many stupid mistakes with money, and we are slowly digging ourselves out. She needs to as well. She is single with no dependents! She needs to quit whining and get busy on paying it off. BUT the laws and policies need to change so that this cannot happen to other people!

[Jane in NC]

Oh, I agree that the whole system needs an overhaul. I'm willing to bet Cortney represents thousands, however. There is a huge entitlement mentality in many of these kids, whether they're saying, "I should only go to the best (read most expensive) uni," or "I certainly wouldn't work for that little," or "There's no way I'm moving back in with mom and dad," or "I can't be expected to pay all these loans back!"

 

Unfortunately, I have several nieces and nephews with this very mindset. :glare:

 

I cannot quote a statistic at the moment, but I heard recently that the largest group of student loan defaulters are attendees of the for-profit colleges, institutions that often sell themselves as champions of the underserved. That said, I do not know if these students see themselves as "entitled".

 

It should be noted that it is not only kids who want to attend these pricey schools without sufficient aid, it is also parents who are contribute to the problem. I read in the NY Times or Washington Post a quote from an admissions officer at one of the almost-Ivies who said that they expected parents to tap into home equity to fund their precious dumpling's education. In some circles, parents feel guilt if their kids do not go the route of the Ivies or almost Ivies. Again, the parents should behave like adults, understand financial ramifications and help their students make wise decisions. So many people were living in a house of cards before the economic collapse so perhaps this was part of a cultural mindset.

[Mejane]

Post a quote from an admissions officer at one of the almost-Ivies who said that they expected parents to tap into home equity to fund their precious dumpling's education. In some circles, parents feel guilt if their kids do not go the route of the Ivies or almost Ivies. Again, the parents should behave like adults, understand financial ramifications and help their students make wise decisions. So many people were living in a house of cards before the economic collapse so perhaps this was part of a cultural mindset.

 

Yes, yes, yes. One of my ssil is funding her 27yo son's MBA in international business, which he is earning IN SPAIN, by taking money out of her retirement fund. um... no!

[Aggie]

Precisely. Talking to my husband about the NY Times article, he asked "Who is the adult here?" Ideally one hopes that a parent can guide a student. But if a parent cannot, one would think that the financial aid office which offer greater assistance. In many of the comments following the article, posters noted that they never received advice; rather, they were told to "sign here". The ramifications of their signature were not properly explained.

 

I've agreed with your posts, but this struck me in an odd way.

 

We, as a society, have long proclaimed that 18 is adulthood. Whether I agree with that or not, legally we have put that responsibility and privilege on these young people. 18 year olds can sign up for the armed forces, smoke, etc.

 

Even on this board I've read, "Well, she'll be 18 and will be able to do anything she wants."

 

If we give 18-20 year olds that freedom, they must also accept whatever responsibility that comes with it, imo. There are ways and means for these college-age kids to get what information they need and desire.

 

Also, I'm sure many of the people who noted they had never received advice, surely had. Perhaps long-forgotten advice, or ignored advice, but I find it difficult to believe that so many people walked into this situation so blissfully ignorant. Ah, yeah, now that I think about it, even older adults walk into many situations without having all the information they need. Myself included. :(

[Jane in NC]

I've agreed with your posts, but this struck me in an odd way.

 

We, as a society, have long proclaimed that 18 is adulthood. Whether I agree with that or not, legally we have put that responsibility and privilege on these young people. 18 year olds can sign up for the armed forces, smoke, etc.

 

Even on this board I've read, "Well, she'll be 18 and will be able to do anything she wants."

 

If we give 18-20 year olds that freedom, they must also accept whatever responsibility that comes with it, imo. There are ways and means for these college-age kids to get what information they need and desire.

 

Also, I'm sure many of the people who noted they had never received advice, surely had. Perhaps long-forgotten advice, or ignored advice, but I find it difficult to believe that so many people walked into this situation so blissfully ignorant. Ah, yeah, now that I think about it, even older adults walk into many situations without having all the information they need. Myself included. :(

 

Good points. I'll admit that I do not expect my eighteen year old to make major financial decisions on his own. Frankly, he has not had to do this so I would help guide him through the process. Our will is set up so that if something were to happen to my husband and me, our son would not receive his inheritance in its entirety at 18. I believe this is fairly standard in the legal world, essentially giving eighteen year olds an opportunity to experience life a bit more fully before being given lump sums of cash.

 

College finances are an area that is not black and white. Parental finances are used to determine financial aid. Some loans (Stafford) are issued to the student, but colleges also give parents the option of PLUS loans. Clearly, colleges do not expect a student to have $20K or $50K in his name to pay for those annual fees. So parents are included in the financial letters.

 

Semi-adulthood?

 

I agree with your last paragraph. I suspect that eyes just glaze over all too often when financial advice is provided to the less than interested.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Jane in NC

[FairProspects]

I think college is just plain too expensive. :(

 

My dh and I went to our local state university (a good one, at least for his field). He got a full-tuition scholarship. I enrolled later (I'm younger) and got the unlucky year with fewer scholarships. I did receive a grant towards part of my tuition, with the stipulation that I'd work in a particular field for a particular length of time as 'repayment'. The rest I worked and saved for. Dh also worked through college, in internships mostly.

 

The only college debt we came away with was mine, the grant... and when we determined that I wouldn't be doing that job after all, by the deadline, we made calls to try to set up repayment before any crazy fees or interest would kick in. And they were so underfunded they didn't even have an office to accept the money back! We were told to just let it go. (This had sure better not bite us some thirty years down the road! We did our best!)

 

Now, that same local university has all sorts of stupid policies, including requiring even local freshman to live on campus and purchase expensive meal plans ... they are working on repealing some of this due to the outcry, but it's an outrageous amount of money on top of the already outrageous tuition hikes. We seriously doubt our kids will be able to afford the same college, and working one's way through sure looks harder and harder!

 

The state pre-paid tuition plan collapsed, too. So much for that. (At least we hadn't yet put in to that.)

 

We do have some funds set aside specially, but given the rising costs ... it won't cover much. I am hoping there will be more and more options by then ... distance learning, more acceptance of mentoring and apprenticeships, and things like that. I think once colleges get some serious competition from serious academic scholarly alternatives (not just trade schools or skipping college altogther), they might start using those Ph.D's to figure a way to make college financing sane again.

 

We can hope, anyway.

 

:iagree:

 

This is the next house of cards, folks. We graduated within the last 5 years and college fees & tuition are just not sustainable at the current rate. Dh worked full-time through grad school and we still came out with massive loans.

 

My best friend is currently in Stanford Medical School, is independently weathly, and has paid most of her way, and she still had to take a $50K loan on top of all her fellowships to finish her training. She says most of her colleagues have loans in excess of $250K. Another friend has a $100K loan from law school. Even on a doctor's/lawyer's salary, that kind of student debt is not sustainable. My friend says student loans are the next sub-prime mortgage mess and I believe her. Something has to be done and I don't blame just the borrowers!

[Cindyz]

I wonder if this will make a bit of difference...

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/us/politics/31obama.html

 

 

Students who borrow money starting in July 2014 will be allowed to cap repayments at 10 percent of income above a basic living allowance, instead of 15 percent. Moreover, if they keep up payments, their balances will be forgiven after 20 years instead of 25 years — or after 10 years if they are in public service, like teaching, nursing or serving in the military.

[Jane in NC]

I wonder if this will make a bit of difference...

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/us/politics/31obama.html

 

Only for those with government loans. This policy will not forgive or cap private loan packages. From the original NY Times story:

 

When they applied for a third loan, however, Sallie Mae rejected the application, citing Cathryn’s credit history. She had returned to college herself to finish her bachelor’s degree and was also borrowing money. N.Y.U. suggested a federal Plus loan for parents, but that would have required immediate payments, something the mother couldn’t afford. So before Cortney’s junior year, N.Y.U. recommended that she apply for a private student loan on her own with Citibank.

 

To clarify, Cartryn is Cortney's mother. Private banks are often involved when students borrow large sums.

 

And I'll admit that I do not know how students fund expensive professional programs like law or med school. Usually they borrow, but whether this money is primarily from federal or private resources is unknown to me. Of course, lawyers and doctors often earn a commensurate income which allows them to repay their loans.

[Cammie]

When I graduated high school (1989) my parents wanted me to go to the best college I could get into. We had no "college fund" - dad is a church pastor. I got great (1/2 tuition) scholarships at what is now one of the most expensive schools in the US. I took out loans to cover the rest. I had no idea of the hole I had started digging. I went to graduate school. I took out loans in the first year but had a scholarship that paid for school and paid me a stipend in the second year. I went to law school - that is where I fell off the financial wagon all together. Loans, loans and more loans. By that time I should have known better...but I didn't. I have loans close to six figures. I hated practicing law and certainly never had any intention of going into the more lucrative fields of law. What is my point...I made these choices but I had no real concept of what I was doing. I simply did not have enough financial sense to be taking on these debts. Did I have a great education? Yes. Do I wish I had found a way to do it without a life-long repayment plan. Of course. I think I had a sense of entitlement that got me in trouble. But I will be making my monthly payments for the next 30 years!

[Renee in NC]

I've agreed with your posts, but this struck me in an odd way.

 

We, as a society, have long proclaimed that 18 is adulthood. Whether I agree with that or not, legally we have put that responsibility and privilege on these young people. 18 year olds can sign up for the armed forces, smoke, etc.

 

Even on this board I've read, "Well, she'll be 18 and will be able to do anything she wants."

 

If we give 18-20 year olds that freedom, they must also accept whatever responsibility that comes with it, imo. There are ways and means for these college-age kids to get what information they need and desire.

 

Also, I'm sure many of the people who noted they had never received advice, surely had. Perhaps long-forgotten advice, or ignored advice, but I find it difficult to believe that so many people walked into this situation so blissfully ignorant. Ah, yeah, now that I think about it, even older adults walk into many situations without having all the information they need. Myself included. :(

 

I had no advice given to me, but I had a child when I went to college. My parents hadn't "parented" me in years (I was pretty much on my own after 14.)

 

I wasn't ignorant - I knew that I would have to pay them back and that I would need a job to be able to do so. I just didn't have the experience to see what could happen in a life that would lead to being in the position I am in now.

[jld]

(((Cammie and Renee)))

 

Thanks for sharing your stories. I think what many people are concerned about in all of this is exactly what both of you have said, that young people don't necessarily understand what they're getting into, and that the consequences can follow them for a lifetime. And as someone else mentioned, older people don't necessarily understand, either!

 

You are both courageous to talk openly about this issue. I'm sure your candidness will help other people think carefully before taking this step, making sure this is what they want to do. Thank you again.

[Renee in NC]

(((Cammie and Renee)))

 

Thanks for sharing your stories. I think what many people are concerned about in all of this is exactly what both of you have said, that young people don't necessarily understand what they're getting into, and that the consequences can follow them for a lifetime. And as someone else mentioned, older people don't necessarily understand, either!

 

You are both courageous to talk openly about this issue. I'm sure your candidness will help other people think carefully before taking this step, making sure this is what they want to do. Thank you again.

 

When you are young, you assume that things will go the way you plan.

 

When I started, I assumed that I would go to 4 years of school, go to med school, and then get a good job. Remember, I went to college with a 2 year old, so in addition to books (I had a full tuition honors scholarship) I had to pay for daycare, rent, etc. Even after I decided that med school was a bad idea (because of my ds), I assumed that I would get my MBA and become a CPA and make enough to pay them back.

 

What ended up happening was that after 2 years, I got married, had more children, spent a lot of money trying to finish my degree (kept having to stop/change for moving, life circumstances, etc.) I did end up with a degree (more than 10 years after I started), but it won't get me anywhere!:lol:

 

I still owe the money, though, and have to figure out how to pay it back.

[Jane in NC]

What ended up happening was that after 2 years, I got married, had more children, spent a lot of money trying to finish my degree (kept having to stop/change for moving, life circumstances, etc.) I did end up with a degree (more than 10 years after I started), but it won't get me anywhere!:lol:

 

 

 

With all of the conversation that has been happening regarding not only college debt, private vs. public, and maybe not attending college at all, I am led to ask a blunt question, if I may. Why do you say that your degree won't get you anywhere? Are you an accountant? This is often recommended as one of the "useful" degrees.

 

If you choose not to share personal information, I understand.

 

Thanks,

Jane

[babysparkler]

My advice to parents is to start at birth, saving all those little $5 and $20 gifts. Granted, interest rates have been stinky lately, but over time these savings will grow. Buy some stock if you have the stomach for it. When you look back on it, you can weigh the value of this nest egg against a stack of plastic toys or electronic games. What is more valuable to you?

 

I wholeheartedly agree!

 

I think what many people are concerned about in all of this is exactly what both of you have said, that young people don't necessarily understand what they're getting into, and that the consequences can follow them for a lifetime. And as someone else mentioned, older people don't necessarily understand, either!

 

You are right. I think that is where the problem lies. I remember when dh and I were shopping for our first house, we were SHOCKED at what the mortgage company "thought" was a reasonable monthly payment for us. It was way above our financial ability and we purchased a house in a much lower price range than we qualified for. I think it comes down to the consumer understanding their own financial ability and not relying on what a financial institution thinks is reasonable for them.

Edited May 31, 2010 by babysparkler

[J-rap]

***

Edited February 28, 2023 by J-rap

[Renee in NC]

With all of the conversation that has been happening regarding not only college debt, private vs. public, and maybe not attending college at all, I am led to ask a blunt question, if I may. Why do you say that your degree won't get you anywhere? Are you an accountant? This is often recommended as one of the "useful" degrees.

 

If you choose not to share personal information, I understand.

 

Thanks,

Jane

 

This is the point where you will see that I am *really* stupid!:tongue_smilie:

 

I do not have a degree in Accounting. I have a degree in Psychology. Why? Because when I started at Liberty, they did not have an Accounting degree and I just wanted a degree (*any* degree) so that I could be "done." I didn't figure that it mattered as I was going to be a SAHM for many years to come. Psychology would happen the fastest. I received my degree in 2005.

 

In order to sit for the CPA exam in FL, I need an additional 39 hours - 30 in business and 9 in accounting. I don't have an easy way to do that! I can't get financial aid anymore (not grants because I have a BS and not loans because I have bad credit.) I would have to do distance. A graduate degree will cost me almost $1500 a class!

 

I also made the assumption that my dh would make enough to pay my loans back. Not quite sure *why* I thought that would happen, considering that he is blue collar and isn't likely to ever be anything else.:001_huh: (Good thing I didn't marry for money, huh?:D)

 

I'll be honest and say I don't know *what* will happen in the future. I have one year of Economic Hardship deferment left, then I am out of options other than paying it back.:tongue_smilie:

[Cammie]

Funny thing is, I am not sure it does matter what degree you get. We simply cannot know what life is going to throw at us in the future! I never would have predicted I would not like being a lawyer. I NEVER thought I would be a SAHM - NEVER! I certainly never thought that at the age of 39 I still would not have found my "passion" or even figured out what I want to do with my life. It did NOT happen as planned and I think that is the case for almost everyone. Life happens.

[Renee in NC]

Funny thing is, I am not sure it does matter what degree you get. We simply cannot know what life is going to throw at us in the future! I never would have predicted I would not like being a lawyer. I NEVER thought I would be a SAHM - NEVER! I certainly never thought that at the age of 39 I still would not have found my "passion" or even figured out what I want to do with my life. It did NOT happen as planned and I think that is the case for almost everyone. Life happens.

 

This is true! That is why I would caution *anyone* against getting loans at all. However, I am a realist - I know that paying for college is very hard for everyone! "Working your way" through is not feasible for many anymore due to the high cost of college. Even state schools!

 

I think getting rid of the opulent facilities and perks is a good start towards lowering college costs. That and lessening the loans a student could get (even private) would go a long way towards lowering costs. If students had to pay cash, colleges couldn't charge as much.

[Mejane]

 

You are right. I think that is where the problem lies. I remember when dh and I were shopping for our first house, we were SHOCKED at what the mortgage company "thought" was a reasonable monthly payment for us. It was way above our financial ability and we purchased a house in a much lower price range than we qualified for. I think it comes down to the consumer understanding their own financial ability and not relying on what a financial institution thinks is reasonable for them.

 

This is an excellent comparison. If one thinks of both (education and real estate) in terms of what constitutes a reasonable investment, there is a sensible limit. Like you, we could have afforded much more house when we bought, and were prodded by our agent (commission cha-ching!), but had the good sense to buy in a comfortable range. Unfortunately, lots of kids don't have that financial savvy.

[Mejane]

Funny thing is, I am not sure it does matter what degree you get. We simply cannot know what life is going to throw at us in the future! I never would have predicted I would not like being a lawyer. I NEVER thought I would be a SAHM - NEVER! I certainly never thought that at the age of 39 I still would not have found my "passion" or even figured out what I want to do with my life. It did NOT happen as planned and I think that is the case for almost everyone. Life happens.

 

My cousin is a lawyer who now works in real estate development. He says his degree helps a bit, but it's really his natural gift of schmooze that makes him so successful. :001_smile:

[at the beach]

Wow. Unbelievable. If that were my daughter, I would have advised her very differently, that's for sure. However, if I had a child in that boat, I would urge them to move home after college and get a job (or two) and pay that debt down ASAP. Living at home would surely lower expenses if the parents are willing to house and feed the student. That would be a first step. Conserve resources in a situation like this.

 

We have consumer protection laws in other areas and perhaps we should have something in place like that with student loans. But even with laws in place, many students will simply choose to live for today and not worry about tomorrow until they have to. I would advise anyone to steer clear of all private loans. Bad idea IMO. For parents and students.

 

However, I'm not totally against debt, either. It just depends. My oldest will have federal loans upon graduation. My husband and I are contributing to the costs of her education, too. She'll probably have in the neighborhood of $70,000 in student loans, but that is after two years of what is considered grad school in a 0-6 Pharm.D. program. ETA: The vast majority of her debt is the result of the last two years of school, where she is considered a graduate student as far as financial aid. I would not advise my child to take on this kind of debt for an undergrad degree, and with regard to a grad degree, it would depend on the degree and the career prospects.

 

She had quite a bit of merit aid for the undergrad portion but not enough for a free ride by any means, and it made no difference what our FAFSA said. They just don't care. You get your merit aid and the rest is up to you to figure out--at least that how it appears to work in this program. It is highly competitive. She was fortunate to win one of their highest scholarships. She has a job as an intern now and is making decent summer wages, well above minimum wage. The starting pay in our area for a pharmacist in retail is about $125,000. She plans to live at home after graduation, put her sign on bonus (if they are still doing them) on the loans and then pay the rest off as quickly as she can. I would venture to say most grad students take on debt. There are not as many scholarships at that level. And many graduate degrees are not going to result in a person making a whopping salary, either. Proceed with caution I say.

 

I would say be as smart as you can about debt. It is true there are no guarantees with anything. But as of now, in dd's program, there is 100% job placement. Women's and religious studies? Not a good bet. But that girl made her decision and if she takes some drastic measures right now she could pay it off IMO. But it doesn't look like she's taking drastic measures. She goes to SF, one of the most expensive places to live (or has that changed?) and then whines about the student loan debt she has? :001_huh: I'm all for pursuing passions and broadening your mind but NOT if it's going to saddle you with crippling debt. You can educate yourself for FREE with a library card if you so desire. Figure out a way to put food on your table first.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Violet

[jld]

What a wise post, Violet! Thanks!

[cathmom]

We are also telling our children they MUST work full-time in the summer, and at least part-time during the school year.

 

Parents think their children shouldn't have to 'suffer' (have a job at the same time, not have the fun experience of living on-campus, etc.) while going to college.

 

The problem for my oldest son and many other college students now is that there are very few jobs for students right now. My son could not find a job the summer before college. He didn't have a chance to look last summer because he was studying abroad in Poland and did not get back in time where anyone would hire him. He spent the entire fall semester this past year looking for a PT job, then transferred colleges and found a PT job as a writing tutor last semester. This summer he is not living with us (we live in a rural area with over 12% unemployment) and staying with relatives instead, in an area where there are hopefully more jobs. He is currently looking.

 

I am a strong proponent of living at home for college, but I also see the value in living on campus. Not because it's fun, or for the dorm experience, but because it's much easier to be involved and the student is not wasting time commuting back and forth. In our case, that would be at least an hour a day.