Online P.S....anyone else see them as a HUGE threat to homeschooling?

[mamatanya]

I am in a virtual charter school. We have made no changes to how we school, except that we have to check in periodically. However, my kids have all sorts of opportunities now that we couldn't afford before we started this program.

 

Hi Rosy. Do you mind me asking what virtual charter school program you are using. I stopped looking into the online route because I wanted to teach what I wanted to teach, not what I was told to teach, but if you were able to continue with your current curriculum, I am all ears!! :bigear: Also, how did this make it possible for you to afford extra curricular opportunities? I would like to be able to do more with my children but this is the worst financial year of my life and I cannot do all that I would like to do with them.

[Barb_]

 

For legal purposes I do think there's a legitimate concern about school administrators wanting more oversight over independent homeschoolers and I understand wanting clear cut legal definitions.

 

 

Unless a child is taking classes part time at the local school, the local school administrator really doesn't care about overseeing that student. Honestly, that scenario has the greatest potential erosive effect on homeschooling freedom in my eyes. Additionally, if a child is enrolled in a cybercharter, the administrator of the cybercharter is only interested in your child and the other enrolled children, not the privately homeschooled child down the street.

 

Public schools are not a threat to private and parochial schools. Public home education is likewise not a threat to private home education.

 

Barb

 

PS: Not arguing a point with you personally, just using the above statement as a jumping off point for my thoughts.

[Wheres Toto]

How do you figure? This just doesn't make sense to me at all. Do you mean all 50 states getting together to agree on a single set of regulations?:confused:

 

 

States use government-funded charter schools (on-line and otherwise) to suck hsers in with offers of all sorts of free stuff; hsers instantly become accountable to and controlled by the state, without the state having to pass more restrictive laws. Government-funded charter schools are more common in states with little restriction, such as California--not that other states don't have them, but that there are more of them in those states.

 

Let's not forget that in any state, the government will receive funding for the students it enrolls in its programs, yet another reason that it is in the best interest of the government to suck hsers in. The state gets no moneys from the *homeschoolers.*

 

Some states have absolutely no regulations for homeschoolers - they don't even know who in their state is homeschooling. Others require almost as much oversight as you would have with kids sitting in a classroom everyday. You're not going to have universal restrictions put on homeschoolers with such a mish-mash of standards. The money that would have to be spent on just finding the homeschoolers in some states would completely wipe out any possible gains in funding. I don't know about where you are, but schools around here would never be able to handle a sudden influx of students with the funding problems they're having - the difference in goverment money per student is no where near adequate.

 

I'm assuming when you talk about the government getting money you are refering to local governments? Our state government is the one who has to pay the local governments for the students they have enrolled. The State is not going to want to increase enrollment because it increases the money they have to pay out. And the local governments are not going to be able to further restrict homeschoolers on their own. A good portion of the funding in my district is coming from property taxes - paid by everyone regardless of whether they have children in the schools or not. I don't see the benefit of increased enrollment of students for state governments:

 

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/10facts/index.html

States and localities are the primary sources of K-12 education funding and always have been.

Total U.S. Expenditures for Elementary and Secondary Education

In the 2004-05 school year, 83 cents out of every dollar spent on education is estimated to come from the state and local levels (45.6 percent from state funds and 37.1 percent from local governments). The federal government's share is 8.3 percent. The remaining 8.9 percent is from private sources, primarily for private schools. [ * * ] This division of support remains consistent with our nation's historic reliance on local control of schools.

[Barb_]

#3) I freely admit I do not know all the ins and outs of homeschooling/home education laws in other states, and am not qualified to address this issue beyond my own state.

 

I'm glad you mentioned this point. I think this is the source of most of the misinformation circulating the internet and the homeschooling groups. Most people can comprehend this issue from a narrow range of personal experience and their own state law, but it's tough to get the full picture from one narrow slice of the country.

 

Barb

[StartingOver]

Some states have absolutely no regulations for homeschoolers - they don't even know who in their state is homeschooling. Others require almost as much oversight as you would have with kids sitting in a classroom everyday. You're not going to have universal restrictions put on homeschoolers with such a mish-mash of standards. The money that would have to be spent on just finding the homeschoolers in some states would completely wipe out any possible gains in funding. I don't know about where you are, but schools around here would never be able to handle a sudden influx of students with the funding problems they're having - the difference in goverment money per student is no where near adequate.

 

I'm assuming when you talk about the government getting money you are refering to local governments? Our state government is the one who has to pay the local governments for the students they have enrolled. The State is not going to want to increase enrollment because it increases the money they have to pay out. And the local governments are not going to be able to further restrict homeschoolers on their own. A good portion of the funding in my district is coming from property taxes - paid by everyone regardless of whether they have children in the schools or not. I don't see the benefit of increased enrollment of students for state governments:

 

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/10facts/index.html

States and localities are the primary sources of K-12 education funding and always have been.

Total U.S. Expenditures for Elementary and Secondary Education

 

In the 2004-05 school year, 83 cents out of every dollar spent on education is estimated to come from the state and local levels (45.6 percent from state funds and 37.1 percent from local governments). The federal government's share is 8.3 percent. The remaining 8.9 percent is from private sources, primarily for private schools. [ * * ] This division of support remains consistent with our nation's historic reliance on local control of schools.

 

Texas has no rules. But they do have a public option that allows parents to access public school curriculum, provides them with a computer and internet connection. They arrange field trips, keep records, etc, etc, etc. They get the same amount of money for overseeing these children as the local brick and mortar schools.

 

It is called Connections Academy.

 

You don't think that they public schools done virtually, won't want homeschoolers in their program ? That they aren't trying to get public kids out of the schools too. Of course they are. They pay less for teachers, less for heating, ac, supplies, etc. They are making a fortune. Paying higher salaries to their employees.

 

This scares me to death !! In my area I know of 30 families in Connections Academy, they are not homeschoolers !!

 

I do know that some use it as a stepping stone. But many will just go for the FREE stuff !

[MrsBasil]

To clarify--there is no such thing as "home schooling" in CO, it is called home-based education. I think that's where some of the confusion arises. People call themselves home schoolers when they are in a ps charter situation. There are two other ways that are often considered homeschooling: having your child enrolled in a private satellite school (often called an umbrella school)--CHEC, among others, offers one. The upside to that is that if your private school does not offer a sport, you can do it at the ps. And the final way, is to have a CO licensed tutor. You might contract with the lady down the road or you might be that CO licensed teacher yourself. If that case, you neither notify the district, nor test. Again, you have access to ps sports and other extra-curr activities.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

[Wheres Toto]

You don't think that they public schools done virtually, won't want homeschoolers in their program ? That they aren't trying to get public kids out of the schools too. Of course they are. They pay less for teachers, less for heating, ac, supplies, etc. They are making a fortune. Paying higher salaries to their employees.

 

This scares me to death !! In my area I know of 30 families in Connections Academy, they are not homeschoolers !!

 

I do know that some use it as a stepping stone. But many will just go for the FREE stuff !

 

Not sure why this scares you. Are you afraid of government oversight or of virtual academies becoming more successful? Why should we care if a different breed of public school increases enrollment? Those who feel its the best thing for their families will do it and those who don't, won't. Do you feel they are deceiving homeschoolers into thinking they are a "better homeschool"? Then the onus is on the homeschoolers to do research into their options and know what they are signing up for. It would be the same if the public schools decided to start a marketing campaign to increase their enrollment - the consumer needs to be careful about their "purchase".

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Texas has no rules. But they do have a public option that allows parents to access public school curriculum, provides them with a computer and internet connection. They arrange field trips, keep records, etc, etc, etc. They get the same amount of money for overseeing these children as the local brick and mortar schools.

 

It is called Connections Academy.

 

You don't think that they public schools done virtually, won't want homeschoolers in their program ? That they aren't trying to get public kids out of the schools too. Of course they are. They pay less for teachers, less for heating, ac, supplies, etc. They are making a fortune. Paying higher salaries to their employees.

 

This scares me to death !! In my area I know of 30 families in Connections Academy, they are not homeschoolers !!

 

I do know that some use it as a stepping stone. But many will just go for the FREE stuff !

 

Yes, but the thing is usually charters have significantly less power, influence, and clout than regular brick and mortar schools. I think regular public schools all over the country are freaking out about charter schools and will do everything in their power to kill them IMHO since the money follows the student. Sure public charter cybers try to get more students to stay in business, but they do not have the power to force anyone at all and the regular public schools will be very happy to keep it that way:D

 

I am just an advocate of radical school choice including public cyber charters and homeschooling:) In fact, I also support a kid being able to choose a school anywhere in or out of their district as well as school vouchers. I also think school funding needs to be re-done:)

[Barb_]

Texas has no rules. But they do have a public option that allows parents to access public school curriculum, provides them with a computer and internet connection. They arrange field trips, keep records, etc, etc, etc. They get the same amount of money for overseeing these children as the local brick and mortar schools.

 

It is called Connections Academy.

 

No, you are mistaken. Texas (the state) does not run its own public option. Connections Academy is one public virtual charter in the state. Others are:

 

IQ Academy Texas

TXVA run by K12

Texas Virtual School

 

Worded above, it sounds like Texas (the state) is offering a single monolithic public option with the sole purpose of enticing naive homeschoolers with free stuff only to snatch away homeschooling rights as soon as they (the state) have captured enough students. Not true.

 

Barb

[StartingOver]

Not sure why this scares you. Are you afraid of government oversight or of virtual academies becoming more successful? Why should we care if a different breed of public school increases enrollment? Those who feel its the best thing for their families will do it and those who don't, won't. Do you feel they are deceiving homeschoolers into thinking they are a "better homeschool"? Then the onus is on the homeschoolers to do research into their options and know what they are signing up for. It would be the same if the public schools decided to start a marketing campaign to increase their enrollment - the consumer needs to be careful about their "purchase".

 

 

I think it will lead to more laws. The districts will say that "this" is homeschooling too. These children are taught in their homes, by their parents, so why not get all homeschoolers on the same page.

 

They receive money PER child, of course they want more children in their programs.

[StartingOver]

No, you are mistaken. Texas (the state) does not run its own public option. Connections Academy is one public virtual charter in the state. Others are:

 

IQ Academy Texas

TXVA run by K12

Texas Virtual School

 

Worded above, it sounds like Texas (the state) is offering a single monolithic public option with the sole purpose of enticing naive homeschoolers with free stuff only to snatch away homeschooling rights as soon as they (the state) have captured enough students. Not true.

 

Barb

 

I stand correct on the number of Virtual schools. I think they are very dangerous ! We will never agree on this. So I will just mosey on to another thread.

 

I just hope I am as free to homeschool my children in the next 20 years, as I have in the last 20 years. If not, I will gladly fight again !

[JenniferB]

Part of the problem is that people don't understand that these are *public schools," not homeschooling. It's a legal issue, and it does make a difference.

 

HSLDA has several good articles on them.

 

I'm sorry, but this is just plain mis-information. At least in my state, it is made perfectly clear that we are not homeschooling, but public schooling by enrolling in the virtual academy. We sign several papers which make it perfectly clear what we are doing, and what is expected out of us in order to participate in the program.

 

VAs are another choice - and more choice is good in the case of education. I think the HSLDA and my state homeschool organization are being silly and ridiculous about his issue. It's silly paranoia to believe that these schools are somehow out to get homeschoolers and recruit them in order to keep an eye on all of us. If leaders and advocates of both sides - homeschooling and public schooling - would come together with open minds and cooperation I think even more choices and dynamic programs could be implemented for the benefit of the education of our children. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

[Barb_]

I think the HSLDA and my state homeschool organization are being silly and ridiculous about his issue. It's silly paranoia to believe that these schools are somehow out to get homeschoolers and recruit them in order to keep an eye on all of us.

 

HSLDA benefits from keeping us fearful. No fear, no need of their services.

 

Barb

[Haiku]

I think it will lead to more laws. The districts will say that "this" is homeschooling too. These children are taught in their homes, by their parents, so why not get all homeschoolers on the same page.

 

How long will it take for this to happen? Because our state has had virtual schools for eight years, and although there was talk at one time of increasing regulations on homeschoolers, it a) had NOTHING to do with virtual schools and b) was handily defeated.

 

The people who so vehemently (and in the case of at least one poster, extremely rudely) condemn virtual schools (which, I should clarify, our family does not use ... I am not rooting for my own cause here) all seem to believe that they will lead to tighter regulations for homeschoolers. From reading this thread, it appears that the trend is exactly the opposite: school districts are fighting the existence of virtual schools, and virtual schools are doing their darndest to distance themselves from homeschooling (aside from potentially marketing to homeschoolers, but that's their right to do).

 

I'm both shocked and disgusted by the the idea that people who would use a virtual school were never good party-line homeschoolers anyway. That attitude seems so antithetical to the idea of educational freedom that is the heart of homeschooling (and is also the heart of the educational alternatives movement).

 

Tara

[Haiku]

HSLDA benefits from keeping us fearful. No fear, no need of their services.

 

True dat. I think HSLDA is one of the worst things ever to happen to the homeschooling community.

 

Tara

[JenniferB]

:iagree: You also ought to look up "Exposing a Trojan Horse"...I saw this video at a homeschool meeting and it was truly eye-opening!! :(

 

Gag me! :ack2: We can't glorify God if we use Virtual Schools?

 

The dark, sinister music is so....:ack2:.

 

We can't include the Lord in our kid's education of we use Virtual Schools? Whaaaaat?

 

Depth and breath of chaos caused by virtual schools?

 

Actually, my local VA has brought the amount of peace and sanity that I needed to keep going. I still have my days, which are frequent, but it's this program that makes it possible. I don't know what level of insanity I would be at right now without our VA. It saved me from the chaos of eclectic homeschooling, which is not me at all. Nothing about me is eclectic. Eclectic drives me crazy. I function best in order, programs, schedules, cleanliness, and all those sorts of things. My state VA took the chaotic reality of homeschooling, and made it somewhat more orderly.

[MrsBasil]

HSLDA benefits from keeping us fearful. No fear, no need of their services.

 

Barb

 

 

That's interesting and making me think I need to some web searches about them. That's where I got most of my information about homeschooling laws and virtual schools. They were recommended to me by a friend on another board when I mentioned we were thinking about homeschooling.

 

FWIW, I'm not opposed to any and all schooling options. The more, the better.

 

My husband became more receptive to the idea of "home schooling" when he found out about the one day a week enrichment academies here. He is for peer interaction, learning from adults who aren't Mom or Dad, working towards set standards, and learning how to behave in a classroom setting.

 

So, I wouldn't be a real home schooler either. Only part time since the he would be at a school one day a week.

[angela in ohio]

How long will it take for this to happen? Because our state has had virtual schools for eight years, and although there was talk at one time of increasing regulations on homeschoolers, it a) had NOTHING to do with virtual schools and b) was handily defeated.

 

Not arguing here (as I have no way to predict the future and know the way this will go,) but eight years is a very short amount of time in the history of homeschooling regulations. I just dont think it is long enough to determine whether they will have an effect one way or the other.

 

and virtual schools are doing their darndest to distance themselves from homeschooling (aside from potentially marketing to homeschoolers, but that's their right to do).

 

This varies by state. In Ohio, they marketed themselves as a 'homeschool option,' and it took legal action to get them to stop.

 

Side note: I have noticed a contrast in pro-virtual school arguments on this thead (and in general.) Some say that they should call themselves homeschoolers and there is really no difference between what they are doing and homeschooling, and then some say that there is a clear distinction and no one could ever confuse the two. Those two arguments seem to be in direct opposition to one another.

[ScoutTN]

I suspect the answers to this vary with the core philosophical and ideological orientation of the hs-ing parents. Those who choose Hsing for worldview reasons will more likely find this threatening while those who choose HSing for more "practical" reasons, who would not have a problem with putting their children into ps if curriculum, instruction style/pace, socialization, safety, lack of special needs resources or whatever were not a problem.

 

 

For us:

Yes. It is still government school and therefore legally under government control. We would not participate in this option on principle.

 

I have no problem with online education, though I don't think I'd want that to be the majority of my child's schooling experience.

[Renee in NC]

Homeschoolers in Florida are able to take classes--free of charge--through FLVS http://www.examiner.com/x-29147-Jacksonville-Homeschooling-Examiner~y2009m12d3-Abundant-high-school-options-for-Florida-homeschoolers.

 

ETA: FLVS is for middle and high schoolers

 

Right, but the virtual schools (Connections and K12 - depends on your county) are *not* open to homeschoolers.

[Barb_]

Not arguing here (as I have no way to predict the future and know the way this will go,) but eight years is a very short amount of time in the history of homeschooling regulations. I just dont think it is long enough to determine whether they will have an effect one way or the other.

 

No, not really. Homeschooling regulations are only 25 years old or so. More recent in many states. Before that, homeschooling had to be done outside the law. In 1985, there were an estimated 50,000 homeschoolers. The earliest virtual charters on the scene date back to around 2000-2001, so 9-10 years. So homeschooling and cyber charters have been around concurrently for about a third of the time. In that time, both options have grown rapidly. Homeschoolers now number between 1.5 and 2 million. I think the numbers speak for themselves.

 

 

This varies by state. In Ohio, they marketed themselves as a 'homeschool option,' and it took legal action to get them to stop.

 

Bad move on their part. But you are describing the cringe-worthy marketing efforts of a curriculum company, not an attempt at further regulation by the government.

 

Side note: I have noticed a contrast in pro-virtual school arguments on this thead (and in general.) Some say that they should call themselves homeschoolers and there is really no difference between what they are doing and homeschooling, and then some say that there is a clear distinction and no one could ever confuse the two. Those two arguments seem to be in direct opposition to one another.

 

I have one in college, two in a public charter school, 1 in a virtual charter, one privately homeschooling, and one in preschool. It's really difficult to describe what I do without resorting to shorthand. A lot of the confusion stems from people who are coming from a b&m public school. To them, any kind of schooling at home is homeschooling. There are some that aren't even aware a private option exists! That particular ignorance is funny and kind of ironic, but more annoying than dangerous.

 

I do actually like to keep virtual schooling and homeschooling separate, so during those times that I've had all my kids doing a cybercharter, I just say, "I teach my kids at home." It describes what we do without bogging down the conversation or watering down the term, "homeschooling."

 

Barb

[Renee in NC]

I think it will lead to more laws. The districts will say that "this" is homeschooling too. These children are taught in their homes, by their parents, so why not get all homeschoolers on the same page.

 

They receive money PER child, of course they want more children in their programs.

 

If that were true, then my county would let me enroll my 5yo dd in their K12 program. They don't, even though technically they would "make money" on her (the total program cost is $4K and the state pays $6K if she is enrolled.)

[angela in ohio]

Bad move on their part. But you are describing the cringe-worthy marketing efforts of a curriculum company, not an attempt at further regulation by the government.

 

I was replying to this quote: "...and virtual schools are doing their darndest to distance themselves from homeschooling (aside from potentially marketing to homeschoolers, but that's their right to do)." The quote wasn't about regulation, but about the actions of the virtual schools, and that is what I was commenting on.

[Barb_]

I was replying to this quote: "...and virtual schools are doing their darndest to distance themselves from homeschooling (aside from potentially marketing to homeschoolers, but that's their right to do)." The quote wasn't about regulation, but about the actions of the virtual schools, and that is what I was commenting on.

 

Oh, I see. Okay, let me rephrase my point. Marketing efforts benefit the private entity running and profiting from the growth of the school. Someone got carried away and shot themselves in the foot. The administration of the actual school (not the curriculum company, and not to be confused as one in the same) has a vested interest in keeping things as separate as possible. It wouldn't be the first time the curriculum company and the schools they run have been at odds.

 

Barb

[Mrs Mungo]

Originally Posted by alatexan68

I think it will lead to more laws. The districts will say that "this" is homeschooling too. These children are taught in their homes, by their parents, so why not get all homeschoolers on the same page.

 

They receive money PER child, of course they want more children in their programs.

 

 

If that were true, then my county would let me enroll my 5yo dd in their K12 program. They don't, even though technically they would "make money" on her (the total program cost is $4K and the state pays $6K if she is enrolled.)

 

How this sort of thing works varies from state to state.

 

There is a big stink here in Hawaii because the federal government pays money to school districts that are affected by the military. Because we don't pay as many state taxes (which, actually isn't true here because schools are supported with excise taxes), the federal government gives money to the school districts *per child* to help make up for it. The state of Hawaii only has 1 school district. The money is parceled out to *all* the schools in Hawaii, even those on other islands.

[Greta]

States use government-funded charter schools (on-line and otherwise) to suck hsers in with offers of all sorts of free stuff; hsers instantly become accountable to and controlled by the state, without the state having to pass more restrictive laws.

 

You are by no means the first person I've heard make this claim, but it never ceases to surprise me because it is so utterly contradictory to my experience. A few years ago, IDEA tried to "set up shop" here in NM where I live. The state made trouble for them from day one, severely limited their enrollment their first year, and shut them down before they could begin a second year.

 

It was one school district, lots of homeschoolers, and the paid employees of IDEA who tried to bring a "school-at-home" type charter school to NM. It was the state that would not allow it to happen.

[Wheres Toto]

If it's increased accountability to the government that everyone is worried about, what about working on helping those who are already homeschooling in states where the accountability is high? Help those who have to jump through hoops - portfolio evaluations, testing, curriculum guidelines, teacher qualifications - in order to homeschool their children, instead of worrying about what MIGHT happen if cyber schools become more popular.

[Barb_]

That's interesting and making me think I need to some web searches about them. That's where I got most of my information about homeschooling laws and virtual schools. They were recommended to me by a friend on another board when I mentioned we were thinking about homeschooling.

 

I'm not saying HSLDA has never helped anyone ever, but the best place to start your research is right on their own web page. Look at their active cases. The majority read like a tempest in a teapot:

 

"Superintendent Urges Testing

 

A Home School Legal Defense Association member family in Apache County received a letter from the county superintendent requesting that their children take the Arizona Instrument to Measure Standards (AIMS) test. Confused and a little worried, the family called HSLDA Attorney Thomas Schmidt for help.

 

Schmidt reassured the family that Arizona law does not require homeschool students to take the AIMS test or any other test. The standardized testing and optional evaluation requirements were repealed in 1995 through the hard work of HSLDA and Arizona Families for Home Education. In fact, the Arizona Attorney General authored an opinion in 1997 confirming that homeschool students were exempt under the law from all state-mandated testing.

 

Presently, parents who are teaching their children at home need to submit a one-time affidavit of their intent to homeschool to their county superintendent along with their child's birth certificate.

 

While parents could consent to having their children take the AIMS test, we generally advise against it because the test is partly based on specific state standards and content that homeschool students are not legally required to follow.

 

HSLDA expects no difficulties from Apache County regarding AIMS testing."

 

Notice the emotional language? Notice how there was never really a problem to begin with, just a simple misunderstanding that could have been cleared up with a quick phone call or letter from the parents?

 

It reads a lot like a suspense novel about getting up in the morning. I awakened from my BED and felt CONFUSED and GROGGY. I stumbled to the bathroom and I couldn't find my TOOTHBRUSH! I decided I needed HELP! I called my husband who responded immediately. He notified me that he had placed my toothbrush on the charger. Through his EFFORTS and HARD WORK, I was able to brush my teeth with plenty of power. I do not expect difficulties with plaque again.

 

Barb

[angela in ohio]

Oh, I see. Okay, let me rephrase my point. Marketing efforts benefit the private entity running and profiting from the growth of the school. Someone got carried away and shot themselves in the foot. The administration of the actual school (not the curriculum company, and not to be confused as one in the same) has a vested interest in keeping things as separate as possible. It wouldn't be the first time the curriculum company and the schools they run have been at odds.

 

Barb

 

I was just responding for what happened in Ohio. In Ohio, the virtual academy (not the curriculum company) advertised itself as a homeschool program.

[StartingOver]

If it's increased accountability to the government that everyone is worried about, what about working on helping those who are already homeschooling in states where the accountability is high? Help those who have to jump through hoops - portfolio evaluations, testing, curriculum guidelines, teacher qualifications - in order to homeschool their children, instead of worrying about what MIGHT happen if cyber schools become more popular.

 

 

I can't help in those states, I don't live there. If I did live in a state with more restrictions than here, you can bet that I would be bugging my legislators !! I would be urging all of my fellow homeschoolers to do the same.

[hornblower]

BC has a provision for traditional, completely hands-off homeschooling (no reporting, no testing, no funding from the province)

 

In BC, our traditional homeschool #'s plummetted when public schools & independent schools realized that offering 'programs for homeschoolers' was a potential cash cow for them.

 

Our schools get funding per pupil. When they sign up these 'Distributed Learners' (this is what they're supposed to be called, but everyone, including the schools, gets 'confused' and calls them homeschool or homelearner programs), they get full funding but often provide little beyond sending out textbooks & CD-rom's. Originally there was a lot of flexibility in how much and what the districts provided. As time has gone on, the Ministry has been tightening up, and essentially, especially in the higher grades, these are turning into distance ed programs, albeit sometimes with some really cool alternatives, delivery on the web, real-time interaction with teachers etc. But still - it's distance ed by another name.

 

SOME of the programs DO provide lots of services and classes etc but even then, these programs are cheaper to administer and deliver than traditional school. So this is a way for cash strapped districts to bring in some extra money.

 

They lure families by offering the family a $1000 resource allowance/student to be spent on curriculum/gym classes/piano/science workshops etc.

 

That being said, more recent stats show that most new students in the DL programs are people who are escaping traditional school, not traditional homeschoolers who are being sucked back into the system.

 

My own sense is that many of the families who choose these programs would not have been interested in traditional hands-off homeschooling anyway. They are looking for an alternative school, not homeschooling per se.

 

I like the idea of the variety of choices available in our province. So long as our right to do traditional hands-off homeschooling remains untouched, I'm happy. A lot of these alternative learning programs are actually really neat - mini-schools, teen learning centers etc.

[Barb_]

I was just responding for what happened in Ohio. In Ohio, the virtual academy (not the curriculum company) advertised itself as a homeschool program.

 

The virtual academy was opened by a private corporation, K12inc. The private corporation has an interest in attracting as many students as they can. Even though OHVA is a public school, the private corporation makes a profit from it. The private corporation is the marketer of the school. Their profit driven interest (and admittedly stupid mistep) in no way supports the assertion that some schools are trying to lure homeschoolers to erode their freedoms. The people actually in charge of the day to day operations of the schools (the administrators, the teachers, etc) are strictly opposed to any associations with homeschooling....they generally believe homeschooling is sloppy seconds.

 

Anyway, it's telling that there was an uproar, OHVA (and K12inc.) backed off with its tail between its legs, and the association is ancient history (I believe this happened, what? 4 years ago?).

 

Barb

[angela in ohio]

The virtual academy was opened by a private corporation, K12inc. The private corporation has an interest in attracting as many students as they can. Even though OHVA is a public school, the private corporation makes a profit from it. The private corporation is the marketer of the school. Their profit driven interest (and admittedly stupid mistep) in no way supports the assertion that some schools are trying to lure homeschoolers to erode their freedoms. The people actually in charge of the day to day operations of the schools (the administrators, the teachers, etc) are strictly opposed to any associations with homeschooling....they generally believe homeschooling is sloppy seconds.

 

Anyway, it's telling that there was an uproar, OHVA (and K12inc.) backed off with its tail between its legs, and the association is ancient history (I believe this happened, what? 4 years ago?).

 

Barb

 

I wasn't speaking of OHVA, but they may have done the same thing.

 

I haven't found that the people running the charters are opposed to interactions with homeschoolers. Locally, they plan events (roller skating, phys ed,) for their students in conjunction with homeschoolers. The only difference is that the homeschool parents pay at the door and the charter kids are checked off a list and go in for free.

 

Again, I was not commenting on whether they are or are not luring in homeschoolers with the express interest of eroding homeschool freedoms. I was just disagreeing with the statement that they are attempting to distance themselves from homeschooling. This has not been my observation in the state of Ohio.

[Ellie]

If it's increased accountability to the government that everyone is worried about, what about working on helping those who are already homeschooling in states where the accountability is high? Help those who have to jump through hoops - portfolio evaluations, testing, curriculum guidelines, teacher qualifications - in order to homeschool their children, instead of worrying about what MIGHT happen if cyber schools become more popular.

It isnt increased accountability to the state. It's that the children are public school students, not homeschooled students, and there are more and different requirements, including mandatory exit exams, religious parents not being able to use the faith-based instructional materials they really prefer, and more.

 

Many people have documented the problems people are already experiencing, so it isn't an issue of what MIGHT happen if government-funded charter schools (and that includes campus-based as well as Internet-based) become more popular.

[Wheres Toto]

It isnt increased accountability to the state. It's that the children are public school students, not homeschooled students, and there are more and different requirements, including mandatory exit exams, religious parents not being able to use the faith-based instructional materials they really prefer, and more.

 

Many people have documented the problems people are already experiencing, so it isn't an issue of what MIGHT happen if government-funded charter schools (and that includes campus-based as well as Internet-based) become more popular.

 

I believe I read all the posts and I didn't see any traditional/legal homeschoolers who were experiencing problems because of the increase in virtual/charter schools.

 

The exit exams and non-use of religious materials may be problems with some of the public school options but anyone who doesn't want to meet those requirements isn't being forced to use them. I'm not sure why the increase in campus-based Charter schools would cause problems for homeschoolers?

[angela in ohio]

I believe I read all the posts and I didn't see any traditional/legal homeschoolers who were experiencing problems because of the increase in virtual/charter schools.

 

I haven't read all the other posts, but I did post about problems we have experienced with public perception of homeschoolers.

[BabyBre]

To the original question:

 

I understand the concern. The number of self-sufficient homeschoolers may dwindle as these programs gain popularity but, conversely, they may be gaining popularity because more and more public schoolers are dissatisfied with and leaving the system. That's what I've seen happen in our neck of the woods. I agree that they're programs devised by the public schools to entice homeschoolers and try to prevent families from leaving the system.

 

I do see some potential good in the thought that these parents are "homeschoolers". They may be more likely to be connected with homeschool co-ops, curriculum fairs, conventions, etc. that could help them realize that they don't need government credentials to teach their children. Despite their official designation, I think the more people that are introduced to the power of what parents can do at home, the better.

 

I also feel strongly that the more available options for educating our children, the better. I've seen that this really puts the responsibility for education on the parents, where it rightfully belongs. I can choose public school, private school, part-time or full-time enrollment, online public school, homeschool exclusively, attend a public "homeschool" program part-time or full-time, etc, etc. These are all options in our state, and I'm tremendously thankful!

 

I have a friend with three boys, one almost constantly in the hospital in another city for treatment of leukemia. Her other two boys were able to travel with her, be with their brother, and take their public school classes free online. They were with their mother to get her help, but she didn't have the additional stress of planning and teaching lessons, and the boys could contact their instructors online as well. There was also no shortage of nurses at the hospital that were willing to help! It was really a blessing to them.

 

I strongly support options.

Edited May 7, 2010 by BabyBre

[2cents]

Right, but the virtual schools (Connections and K12 - depends on your county) are *not* open to homeschoolers.

 

True. FLVS offers middle and high school courses. Homeschoolers can take any amount of classes free of charge and it does not require them to give up their homeschool status and they are NOT considered public schoolers.

 

The FLVA is also known as K12 and that is different. They are a charter and offer k-12 classes and in order to do that free of charge requires a homeschooler to become a public schooler doing school at home. There is also another way to do k12 and that is as a private homeschooler but that is not free. To do K12 that way allows a homeschooler to retain hs status but it is costly.

[melmichigan]

I agree. If the people who have chosen alternative methods of schooling their children based on a desire to be more involved in said education view each other as enemies rather than allies, well, that's the real threat to homeschooling. If it's that easy to divide us, it's that easy to conquer us. If we'd rather spend our time infighting than pushing for greater and greater freedom of educational choice (even if that choice includes *gasp* more public school options!), then we are suffering from both narrow vision and short-sightedness.

 

As far as virtual school students being excluded from a homeschool group for fear of "scrutiny," well, we have had over the years several virtual school families in our group. Shockingly, no one from the Big School Establishment has never shown one iota of interest in what we are doing. The schools don't care what homeschool groups are up to. That's the least of the least of their worries. By that logic, people who also have kids in public school (like me) would also be open to more scrutiny. No one from any of my dd's schools has ever bothered to ask what we're up to. I just have to say, shame on those who would exclude children.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

[ZooRho]

I do see it as a threat to traditional hsing.

 

I'm glad there are other options for educating children. But I know I have heard in my state that hsers are getting emails like this.

 

I opened my email this morning and saw this subject line

from Virginia Virtual Academy:

 

³Rachel, imagine how much further your children could go

with an education that's right for them²

 

 

Are they sending them out to all parents of school age children. If not then hsers are being speicifically targeted and I have issues with that.

[Parrothead]

I do see it as a threat to traditional hsing.

 

I'm glad there are other options for educating children. But I know I have heard in my state that hsers are getting emails like this.

 

 

 

Are they sending them out to all parents of school age children. If not then hsers are being speicifically targeted and I have issues with that.

How did they get your email?

 

Okay I see not specifically your email. But still, some type of contact somewhere down the line had to be made.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Parrothead

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I do see it as a threat to traditional hsing.

 

I'm glad there are other options for educating children. But I know I have heard in my state that hsers are getting emails like this.

 

 

 

Are they sending them out to all parents of school age children. If not then hsers are being speicifically targeted and I have issues with that.

 

IMHO I suspect this is strictly an email from the K12 corporation and not from a government entity. As for email addresses, K12 can possibly get them from lists as other companies do. I think these lists can possibly be from signing up for other things on the internet. I could be wrong, but K12 is a publicly traded company and has an incentive to advertise to attract new students. I actually have a ds who uses the K12 curriculum via a public cyber charter school and I do like the curriculum very much:001_smile: I cannot blame them for drumming up business:D

[ZooRho]

How did they get your email?

 

Okay I see not specifically your email. But still, some type of contact somewhere down the line had to be made.

Right it wasn't mine, I'm not sure how they got the email addy.

 

I do know that parents have gotten letters though. If you send in an NOI in this state then they would have your address.

[Rosy]

I do see it as a threat to traditional hsing.

 

I'm glad there are other options for educating children. But I know I have heard in my state that hsers are getting emails like this.

 

 

 

Are they sending them out to all parents of school age children. If not then hsers are being speicifically targeted and I have issues with that.

 

What about this email is threatening to you? :confused:

[kelouis75]

What about this email is threatening to you? :confused:

It's an assumption that you don't already have the best educational option for your child...

 

If they sent it to all parents it would be a different story, but if they sent it only to home schoolers, it's pretty much a slap in the face...

[ZooRho]

Could be that too. But still they are just targeting the people who are already hsing and not the general population.

 

IMHO I suspect this is strictly an email from the K12 corporation and not from a government entity. As for email addresses, K12 can possibly get them from lists as other companies do. I think these lists can possibly be from signing up for other things on the internet. I could be wrong, but K12 is a publicly traded company and has an incentive to advertise to attract new students. I actually have a ds who uses the K12 curriculum via a public cyber charter school and I do like the curriculum very much:001_smile: I cannot blame them for drumming up business:D

[annandatje]

No. They are a good fit for some situations.

[ZooRho]

It's an assumption that you don't already have the best educational option for your child...

 

If they sent it to all parents it would be a different story, but if they sent it only to home schoolers, it's pretty much a slap in the face...

Right, this is my thought on it.

 

As I said the threat to Traditional hsing doing it with out outside help.

[Haiku]

If not then hsers are being speicifically targeted and I have issues with that.

 

Why? I would imagine that homeschoolers would be more likely to use their services than traditional schoolers would.

 

if they sent it only to home schoolers, it's pretty much a slap in the face...

 

Then all advertising is a slap in the face, because it's intended to get us interested in things so that we will buy/use them.

 

The public school around here tries to entice me to enroll my kids. They want the money. I don't see it as a slap in the face, even though the letter they send me every year implies that my kids will be going to school eventually.

 

Tara

[kelouis75]

 

Then all advertising is a slap in the face, because it's intended to get us interested in things so that we will buy/use them.

 

 

 

Effective advertising tries not to offend it's intended audience... It is tested, and the advertising agents are very familiar with the target group. At the very least, the wording is a clumsy faux pas... I would have just deleted it...