Dd10 is having huge doubts about Christianity-need resources please!

[HappyGrace]

She is very advanced, and is asking a lot that I didn't expect yet! She accepted Christ at age 3, and is now asking questions like, "What if I'm not really a Christian, What if it's all just stories, How do we know our religion is the right one, What if there is no Heaven?", etc. She is not just asking questions, she is really experiencing angst over this.

 

It is such a glorious opportunity though! And I told her it is very normal to have all these questions, and finding the answers will help build her faith, and that is a necessary process that most people go through. The communication is thankfully wide open and we talk and talk and talk. I read Scriptures with her to try to help. (We have always read the Bible together, etc.) But I feel like I am reinventing the wheel-any suggestions for resources to help answer this type of questions? HELP! :tongue_smilie:

[6packofun]

These are questions that many people of faith ask! Don't be afraid. :) I think Josh MacDowell has some great resources, like his book Don't Check Your Brains at the Door and some other titles (Answers to Tough Questions) that might help both of you. I am a doubter at times and I enjoyed his books and more recently The Reason for God by Timothy Keller (philosophical and probably over her head for the most part, but I recommend it for adults!)

 

Josh MacDowell's site: http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtEqG/b.4191309/k.BD83/Books.htm These are his books, but you can find some great info right on the website.

Edited April 11, 2010 by 6packofun
/..

[Impish]

I don't know if it will be over her head, but 'A Case For Faith' is an incredible book, and absolutely helped me solidify my faith. The same author (name escapes me) wrote 'A Case For Christ'. He wasn't a Christian before writing 'A Case For Christ' either, but came to Christ through writing the book.

[Mergath]

Has she studied other religious beliefs? If she has doubts, in my opinion, the best thing to do is to encourage her to explore other avenues. It sounds counterintuitive, I know, but if she learns about everything that is out there, and decides on her own to return to her original faith, it will be that much stronger because she made the choice herself, instead of just believing it because she was raised to.

[juelle]

Every once in a while I go back and read 'What Christianity is All About'. The author is Dr. Alan Scholes, and in the interests of full disclosure, he is my uncle. He's been teaching Christian theology all his career and is passionate about communicating the truths of the faith to young people. He writes in a conversational style which comes from his years working with college students, and which is intellectually stimulating, but fairly simple. Don't know if I could have read it at 10, but it might help you.

 

'Mere Christianity' by C.S. Lewis is another to add to the Strobel and MacDowell books mentioned above.

 

Your dd's questions are important. It's better to be intellectually honest than fearfully clinging to unconsidered ideas. Explore, examine... seek and you will find!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know if it will be over her head, but 'A Case For Faith' is an incredible book, and absolutely helped me solidify my faith. The same author (name escapes me) wrote 'A Case For Christ'. He wasn't a Christian before writing 'A Case For Christ' either, but came to Christ through writing the book.

 

These books are by Lee Strobel. He also has a book called "The Case for Christ for Kids". I haven't read the kid version though.

[Starr]

It's so exhausting when young ones need big answers. I will talk with dd tomorrow. I can't remember what I did when she went through some of this at that age. We kept reading and talking and worshiping and praying and she has a strong, articulate faith as a teen. I'll be praying for you daughter and wisdom for you.

[HappyGrace]

I am very much encouraging her to question-I know it is the key to building a strong faith! We've been over Doubting Thomas, the Ethiopian Eunuch, etc-that God encourages questions and desires to help answer them!

 

I was looking at some of the recommended books (I have the Stroebel books here), and with some of them I think they will just bring up MORE questions, which will just open up more cans of worms, at this point! I'm all for answering what she wants to know though.

 

I found Answers for Kids (four book series) by Answers in Genesis, and the third and fourth books look pretty good and like what I'm looking for-kind of young and too simplistic though.

 

Going to get Apologia's Who is God, but that doesn't address all that we need it to.

 

Our pastor actually teaches college courses on different religions (through the lens of Christianity) and is well-versed in apologetics, etc. I don't think he'd be up on resources for kids though, and I already asked dd-she doesn't want to talk to him about it (we've only been at our church a little over a year.) I will probably talk to him to get ideas of how I can help her. Feel free to chime in with more resources!!! Thanks!

[HappyGrace]

Thanks-I saw Case for Christ for Kids on Amazon but no sample! It's a possibility, if I could see it!

 

Starr-thank you for praying, and I'd love any suggestions of what you did! I am crying out to the Lord for wisdom-there is NO MORE IMPORTANT THING than this! I am so blessed to have this opportunity, and really want to be as helpful as I can.

 

I also wanted to add that she is not asking questions in a skeptical way, but more of a doubting/wondering way. Subtle difference, I know. But in my mind the first one comes from almost a cynical place, and hers is more of a fear thing, if that makes sense. That's why some of the books I think will just stir up more fearful questions.

Edited April 11, 2010 by HappyGrace

[Teachin'Mine]

I don't know if you read about the lives of Saints at all, but it's what has helped me during times of doubt. Reading about Padre Pio and others makes the faith so alive and makes it so obvious that it's all real and that God is at work in all our lives. I know many people question miracles and the supernatural, but for me, it just provides more proof that my faith is alive and real. :) Wayne Weible's books on Medjugoje - like "The Message" are also great - he was protestant when he wrote that book.

[Laurie4b]

You may simply want to get an adult resource for yourself and answer her questions on your own. With a 10 year old, this would seem like an organic solution moreso than reading books. My kids went off and on with questions like these and often needed not just apologetic info, but testimony. Your own faith-experience and that of others is as important as logic/reasoning type info.

[Mejane]

It certainly doesn't seem unreasonable for her to question at such a young age since she "accepted Christ" at such a young age. It's good that you are allowing her the latitude to explore her questions.

[HappyGrace]

I actually have this book (here it is for free online: http://www.crossway.org/product/9781433506017/contents#extra) and it is meant for kids but too dense, so I am reading through it and summarizing or reading small portions that pertain. That has been helpful. I may just have to continue in that vein, like Laurie was saying.

 

She has been reading a lot of missionary stories this year (along with our Modern History time period), so I think that has been edifying.

 

I am really glad she is questioning. When I was young I just "said" I believe but didn't really own it or believe it at ALL, and that messed me up for many, many years, and I never totally overcame what that lack of true belief did to me. So it is wonderful that she is trying to really seek out truth for herself because that is the only way to own it!

[AngelBee]

:grouphug: Praying for your dd.

[Ester Maria]

She is very advanced, and is asking a lot that I didn't expect yet! She accepted Christ at age 3, and is now asking questions like, "What if I'm not really a Christian, What if it's all just stories, How do we know our religion is the right one, What if there is no Heaven?", etc. She is not just asking questions, she is really experiencing angst over this.

I wasn't sure whether my opinion would be welcomed here as a non-believer, but I'll give my shot anyway.

 

It's impossible - and it's NOT exclusively my own opinion I'm stating this time, but more a scientific fact - to make an educated choice of a worldview, fully aware of its implications, at the age of 3, and the whole statement of your daughter having accepted Christ is somewhat - excuse me being blunt - silly if attributed equal importance as an adult's acceptance of Christ. Your daughter did not "accept Christ" as a consequence of a firm choice, awareness of other explanatory models of the world (non-religious ones included), thinking them through, being aware not only of their practical consequences in everyday life (adherence or not to certain set of rules), but also of the implications of the chosen position on one's stances in ontology, ethics, etc. It's something that comes with age, and takes way more life and intellectual experiences than that of a toddler. Your daughter's "acceptance of Christ" was a result of a particular upbringing, and of a young child naturally inclined to trust her parents and imitate them.

In other words, you can't really talk about the acceptance out of choice in this case. Your daughter is a Christian because of her upbringing, not because of her conscious choice to be one.

 

This is not to say in the least judgmental way - on the contrary. Despite being a non-believer myself, I'm fully aware of the fact that it's impossible to bring up a child in a "neutral", "ideology-free" environment - any upbringing is necessarily an ideological one, just as any culture is, even if it has little to do with religion as such.

 

What you need to understand is that while it's alright to offer your ideology to your child, and while it's completely normal that you'll raise them with it - they WILL question it at some point. Only the unintelligent never question the ideological premises of the society and the family they grew up in. But what you must also be aware of is the real possibility that she declines what you offered. Yes, it means that there is a possibility that she will disagree with you ideologically. She's 10 now and the process of questioning, comparing, weighing and deciding for herself has only begun. And while she might in the end reach the same conclusions you did - realize that there's also a fully legitimate option that she doesn't.

 

If I were you, I would fully support my child in finding her own way about it. I would introduce her to philosophy of religion to the highest extent possible for her age and experience level. If it bothers her, I would dedicate a lot of time to dwell over particular things that bother her, explaining *how I view it* to the best of my ability, but also admitting that there are other opinions on it. I would honestly say that I don't know some things, if I don't, and that some things are indeed quite contradictory, if she points to such things. I would also prefer that it be me who is going to get her acquainted with other options of worldviews. I'd have her experience other religions, as well as non-religious explanatory models of the world (modern science "watered down" enough for a child her age, philosophy, etc.). Of course, all of that would be under the umbrella of your worldview, as I realize that you cannot step out of it for this purpose as it's a worldview encompassing all elements of your life.

 

Basically I'd focus on learning and thinking about those issues more than on fortifying what there, really, isn't to fortify in the first place as that child never made a conscious decision for herself. I think that's one of the crucial mistakes religious parents do when their kids start questioning - they act to "fortify", but there's nothing to fortify yet. First a fully conscious decision to adopt certain religion has to come, and then in periods of crises you can work on fortifying. Otherwise "fortifying" might as well be counter-effective.

 

Good luck. :)

[Laurie4b]

I wasn't sure whether my opinion would be welcomed here as a non-believer, but I'll give my shot anyway.

 

It's impossible - and it's NOT exclusively my own opinion I'm stating this time, but more a scientific fact - to make an educated choice of a worldview, fully aware of its implications, at the age of 3, and the whole statement of your daughter having accepted Christ is somewhat - excuse me being blunt - silly if attributed equal importance as an adult's acceptance of Christ. Your daughter did not "accept Christ" as a consequence of a firm choice, awareness of other explanatory models of the world (non-religious ones included), thinking them through, being aware not only of their practical consequences in everyday life (adherence or not to certain set of rules), but also of the implications of the chosen position on one's stances in ontology, ethics, etc. It's something that comes with age, and takes way more life and intellectual experiences than that of a toddler. Your daughter's "acceptance of Christ" was a result of a particular upbringing, and of a young child naturally inclined to trust her parents and imitate them.

In other words, you can't really talk about the acceptance out of choice in this case. Your daughter is a Christian because of her upbringing, not because of her conscious choice to be one.

 

This is not to say in the least judgmental way - on the contrary. Despite being a non-believer myself, I'm fully aware of the fact that it's impossible to bring up a child in a "neutral", "ideology-free" environment - any upbringing is necessarily an ideological one, just as any culture is, even if it has little to do with religion as such.

 

What you need to understand is that while it's alright to offer your ideology to your child, and while it's completely normal that you'll raise them with it - they WILL question it at some point. Only the unintelligent never question the ideological premises of the society and the family they grew up in. But what you must also be aware of is the real possibility that she declines what you offered. Yes, it means that there is a possibility that she will disagree with you ideologically. She's 10 now and the process of questioning, comparing, weighing and deciding for herself has only begun. And while she might in the end reach the same conclusions you did - realize that there's also a fully legitimate option that she doesn't.

 

If I were you, I would fully support my child in finding her own way about it. I would introduce her to philosophy of religion to the highest extent possible for her age and experience level. If it bothers her, I would dedicate a lot of time to dwell over particular things that bother her, explaining *how I view it* to the best of my ability, but also admitting that there are other opinions on it. I would honestly say that I don't know some things, if I don't, and that some things are indeed quite contradictory, if she points to such things. I would also prefer that it be me who is going to get her acquainted with other options of worldviews. I'd have her experience other religions, as well as non-religious explanatory models of the world (modern science "watered down" enough for a child her age, philosophy, etc.). Of course, all of that would be under the umbrella of your worldview, as I realize that you cannot step out of it for this purpose as it's a worldview encompassing all elements of your life.

 

Basically I'd focus on learning and thinking about those issues more than on fortifying what there, really, isn't to fortify in the first place as that child never made a conscious decision for herself. I think that's one of the crucial mistakes religious parents do when their kids start questioning - they act to "fortify", but there's nothing to fortify yet. First a fully conscious decision to adopt certain religion has to come, and then in periods of crises you can work on fortifying. Otherwise "fortifying" might as well be counter-effective.

 

Good luck. :)

 

"Accepting Christ" has a specific religious meaning not related to abstract choice of worldview. Your post calling the experience of accepting Christ at age 3 "silly" is offensive.

[Mergath]

"Accepting Christ" has a specific religious meaning not related to abstract choice of worldview. Your post calling the experience of accepting Christ at age 3 "silly" is offensive.

 

I didn't find her post the least bit offensive. I agree that no three-year-old would be able to make a decision like that. They may go through the motions, but they don't have the self-awareness and the understanding necessary to really grasp what something like that means. A three-year-old wouldn't even be able to read the bible, so how are they going to make a permanent life change based on it, other than through the filter of mommy and daddy?

[Ester Maria]

"Accepting Christ" has a specific religious meaning not related to abstract choice of worldview. Your post calling the experience of accepting Christ at age 3 "silly" is offensive.

No, Laurie, let me get this very straight in case it's not that clear in my original post: the only thing I called silly was the IMPORTANCE ATTRIBUTED to an ACT OF A TODDLER, who probably had no idea what exactly was going on and what are the implications of their act. That's the only thing I said - I wasn't disregarding anyone's religious feelings, including those of a toddler in question.

 

There are no Christian 3y.o.s in sense of a choice of their position and the accompanying understanding of that choice, only 3y.o.s that are being raised in Christian families, within a Christian mindset, and that might or might not decide that that's their religious stance as well when they grow up a bit.

A symbolic act performed by a child or on a child who maybe did not even agree (e.g. Catholic baptism of newborns) is one thing - and something I fully support as I realize that people are going to offer to their children the kind of upbringing which is in accordance with their worldview. I don't "judge" anything about it. BUT, a conscious decision of one's position is a completely different thing.

 

I expressed my opinion which is as follows: what OP's (i) daughter is going through is NOT a crisis of faith and should NOT be addressed as a crisis of fatih, because (ii) there was no thought-out choice of a worldview and understanding of its essence and implications in the first place preceding that crisis. We have a child that's being raised in Christian family who is (iii) searching for a meaning in her life, NOT a Christian in a faith crisis. Those are two very, very different things in my opinion, and I think it's potentially counter-effective to address as a crisis of faith something which, essentially, isn't that.

 

That's all, like I said, I don't expect my opinion to be welcomed at all on these matters; I just thought it might be borderline of an interest to hear what an "outsider" has to say about it. Guess it wasn't. Oh well. :)

[TravelingChris]

I am a Christian and if she is advanced, I think the Case for Christ may be a good resource. Let me just say that if she is a analytical child, you may want to reconsider the Answers in Genesis material since it may introduce more confusion. If your goal is to have child who is a Christian believer, you need to concentrate on the core CHristian beliefs and not get bogged down in arguments over how many animals could fit into Noah's Ark or whether the dinosaurs were in there.

[LND1218]

No, Laurie, let me get this very straight in case it's not that clear in my original post: the only thing I called silly was the IMPORTANCE ATTRIBUTED to an ACT OF A TODDLER, who probably had no idea what exactly was going on and what are the implications of their act. That's the only thing I said - I wasn't disregarding anyone's religious feelings, including those of a toddler in question.

 

There are no Christian 3y.o.s in sense of a choice of their position and the accompanying understanding of that choice, only 3y.o.s that are being raised in Christian families, within a Christian mindset, and that might or might not decide that that's their religious stance as well when they grow up a bit.

A symbolic act performed by a child or on a child who maybe did not even agree (e.g. Catholic baptism of newborns) is one thing - and something I fully support as I realize that people are going to offer to their children the kind of upbringing which is in accordance with their worldview. I don't "judge" anything about it. BUT, a conscious decision of one's position is a completely different thing.

 

I expressed my opinion which is as follows: what OP's (i) daughter is going through is NOT a crisis of faith and should NOT be addressed as a crisis of fatih, because (ii) there was no thought-out choice of a worldview and understanding of its essence and implications in the first place preceding that crisis. We have a child that's being raised in Christian family who is (iii) searching for a meaning in her life, NOT a Christian in a faith crisis. Those are two very, very different things in my opinion, and I think it's potentially counter-effective to address as a crisis of faith something which, essentially, isn't that.

 

That's all, like I said, I don't expect my opinion to be welcomed at all on these matters; I just thought it might be borderline of an interest to hear what an "outsider" has to say about it. Guess it wasn't. Oh well. :)

 

Well, as far as I am concerned your opinion is welcomed, but I am not the OP. I love hearing others POV. (And I am not upset or being snarky - I hope that this post doesn't come across that way.)

 

I have to add that I agree with Laurie your one comment in that post is offensive to Christians.

 

I didn't find her post the least bit offensive. I agree that no three-year-old would be able to make a decision like that. They may go through the motions, but they don't have the self-awareness and the understanding necessary to really grasp what something like that means. A three-year-old wouldn't even be able to read the bible, so how are they going to make a permanent life change based on it, other than through the filter of mommy and daddy?

 

You aren't a Christian therefore it makes perfect sense that wasn't offensive.

 

On this point Ester Maria, you are incorrect when it comes to Christianity. You may believe that but it doesn't line up with Christian belief. You can defend this POV, but from a Christian stand point it's incorrect and offensive. The fact of matter is Christians believe that children can and do make a profession of faith that is as real and valid as an adults. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter because it's not what Christians believe to being with. So a Christian would take the approach that this is a crisis of faith.

[Kathleen in VA]

The whole Christian faith stands or falls on whether or not the Bible is actually the Word of God. If the Bible is God's infallible revelation to man of who He is, who man is, what God requires of man and how man can fulfill that requirement (or not), then it is imperative for humans to read it and take it seriously. If not, then why bother. I would search out the answer to that question and go from there.

 

Here is a link to a series of videos that opens up the topic well. This series was presented in the context of the release of the movie The DaVinci Code, so it makes a couple references to that near the beginning, but as you go along it focuses more and more on establishing the reliability of the Bible as the source and authority for truth.

 

http://www.puritanboard.com/f16/voddie-baucham-truth-bible-43865/

 

Hebrews 4:12 says, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Have your daughter read her Bible praying that God would open her eyes of understanding. His word is more powerful than anything you can say or any other book or video she is exposed to.

 

Have her read through the gospel of John in a translation - not a transliteration or paraphrase of the Bible (The King James Version, New King James Version, New American Standard Version, the English Stand Version, or The Amplified Bible). Pray that God would open her spiritual eyes to His truth. Salvation is God's work. Faith is His gift. Prayer is the most useful thing you can do for your daughter now.

 

FWIW, I thought Ester Maria's first post in this thread was one of the most thoughtful I've read on these boards. She made some excellent points. In any case, whether the OP's daughter made a profession at age 3 is immaterial at this point in time. Where does she stand now, today?

[LND1218]

More than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell is one of my favorite books for this. I read this when I was at the age of wondering these things years ago.

 

People being to doubt the Bible when they think truth is relative and there is no absolute truth. A study in apologetics would be very beneficial for you and dd as well as any other kids.

 

I agree with using some Answers in Genesis material too. They have great stuff.

 

I would personally read More than a Carpenter and then start with AIG. And I would go from there and dig into the Bible from a historical stand point and a scientific one.

[Ester Maria]

On this point Ester Maria, you are incorrect when it comes to Christianity. You may believe that but it doesn't line up with Christian belief. You can defend this POV, but from a Christian stand point it's incorrect and offensive. The fact of matter is Christians believe that children can and do make a profession of faith that is as real and valid as an adults. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter because it's not what Christians believe to being with. So a Christian would take the approach that this is a crisis of faith.

[bold emphasis mine]

Sigh. Alright then.

 

Two questions and I'm flying off of this topic, promise.

 

1) What exactly was offensive in my post? Was it the wording used (claiming the importance attributed to professions of faith made by toddlers silly), or the idea expressed (that toddlers cannot make meaningful professions of faith)?

If I simply offered an apology to those of you who found themselves offended, it would be somehow dishonest as I honestly still don't see anything scientifically wrong, morally objectionable or linguistically offensive in anything I wrote. If meantime I do realize you are being right, I'll address that, but now I'd really appreciate if somebody took time and explained to me what was offensive and why. :confused:

2) Regarding the bold part, I have a whole set of questions. Anyone willing to answer (we can make a S/O thread, or do it via PMs so as not to chat this thread)?

[forty-two]

A symbolic act performed by a child or on a child who maybe did not even agree (e.g. Catholic baptism of newborns) is one thing - and something I fully support as I realize that people are going to offer to their children the kind of upbringing which is in accordance with their worldview. I don't "judge" anything about it. BUT, a conscious decision of one's position is a completely different thing.

...

That's all, like I said, I don't expect my opinion to be welcomed at all on these matters; I just thought it might be borderline of an interest to hear what an "outsider" has to say about it. Guess it wasn't. Oh well. :)

The thing is, Christians who practice infant baptism *don't* consider it a symbolic act. We believe that, in baptism, God actually creates faith in the heart of that infant, bringing that child into a relationship with Christ. That's what "being a Christian" ultimately means - that a person has a relationship with Christ. Just as a baby can have a relationship with their parents without understanding the intricacies of human interactions, a baby can have a relationship with Christ without understanding Christian teachings.

 

So, a three year old "accepting Christ" means they now have a God-created-and-sustained saving faith - a relationship with Christ. This is completely separate from an intellectual agreement with Christian teachings (even Satan has an intellectual agreement with Christian teachings). So, from a Christian point of view, a child incapable of making an informed, intellectual choice about the truth of Christian teachings can still be a Christian - a person who has faith (created by God) in Christ.

 

(I, for one, am interested in the point of view of interested outsiders - I just wanted to point out that Christians see "being a Christian" as something separate from intellectual agreement with Christain teachings, so you can better understand where the OP is coming from.)

[RegGuheert]

"What if I'm not really a Christian, What if it's all just stories, How do we know our religion is the right one, What if there is no Heaven?"

There is one book which I found a couple of years ago which I highly recommend. It is a comic book entitled "Me, the Professor, Fuzzy & the Meaning of Life". It is published by Answers In Genesis. We have acquired many, many apologetics books over the years and I have to say this one is my absolute favorite. Why? Several reasons:

 

- It is a short, fun, easy read. I am a slow reader and can get through the entire book in under 2 hours. As such, I can readily provide and/or teach this material to anyone of any age without them feeling burdened by too much information. I read the entire book from front to back to six of my children recently, ages 5 to 17. It took two evenings before bedtime.

- It is COMPLETE, starting from first principles ("I am thinking") and concludes that faith in Jesus Christ is the *only* reasonable belief system. ALL (literally) existing worldviews are addressed. No stone is left unturned. If there were ever a concise statement of the "answer of the hope that is within" me, then this would be it.

- To me, it is the complete framework upon which to build further apologetics study. So many books on apologetics are actually focused on just one small aspect of the subject. As such, most of the materials we have could best be considered resources for focused research. This book ties it all together very clearly, making it easier to organize one's thoughts on this subject. We haven't done it, but I think it might be interesting to build a curriculum around the conceptual framework presented in this book.

 

My prayers are with you and your daughter.

[forty-two]

[bold emphasis mine]

Sigh. Alright then.

 

Two questions and I'm flying off of this topic, promise.

 

1) What exactly was offensive in my post? Was it the wording used (claiming the importance attributed to professions of faith made by toddlers silly), or the idea expressed (that toddlers cannot make meaningful professions of faith)?

If I simply offered an apology to those of you who found themselves offended, it would be somehow dishonest as I honestly still don't see anything scientifically wrong, morally objectionable or linguistically offensive in anything I wrote. If meantime I do realize you are being right, I'll address that, but now I'd really appreciate if somebody took time and explained to me what was offensive and why. :confused:

2) Regarding the bold part, I have a whole set of questions. Anyone willing to answer (we can make a S/O thread, or do it via PMs so as not to chat this thread)?

1. I thought the wording was fine, and as for the idea, I don't see it as offensive, just inaccurate from the Christian pov. I don't expect you to agree with the Christian pov - just to realize what the Christian pov *is*.

 

2. I addressed this in my pp (we cross-posted), and I'd be happy to discuss it further.

Edited April 11, 2010 by forty-two

[Mejane]

The thing is, Christians who practice infant baptism *don't* consider it a symbolic act. We believe that, in baptism, God actually creates faith in the heart of that infant, bringing that child into a relationship with Christ. That's what "being a Christian" ultimately means - that a person has a relationship with Christ. Just as a baby can have a relationship with their parents without understanding the intricacies of human interactions, a baby can have a relationship with Christ without understanding Christian teachings.

 

So, a three year old "accepting Christ" means they now have a God-created-and-sustained saving faith - a relationship with Christ. This is completely separate from an intellectual agreement with Christian teachings (even Satan has an intellectual agreement with Christian teachings). So, from a Christian point of view, a child incapable of making an informed, intellectual choice about the truth of Christian teachings can still be a Christian - a person who has faith (created by God) in Christ.

 

 

 

Thank you for clarifying this. I, for one, still have difficulty understanding how a small child can have a firm relationship with a non-physical, non-present being (as opposed to people who physically love and care for it), but as I'm not Christian I don't expect to perfectly understand.

[Heidi]

In my religion, when one desires to know the truth, we are encouraged to pray and ask God if it is true, with faith that God hears and answers our prayers.

 

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." James 1:5

 

Direct communication with her Father in Heaven is the best resource there is, better than all the commentary from all the Christian books out there, combined.

[LND1218]

[bold emphasis mine]

Sigh. Alright then.

 

Two questions and I'm flying off of this topic, promise.

 

1) What exactly was offensive in my post? Was it the wording used (claiming the importance attributed to professions of faith made by toddlers silly), or the idea expressed (that toddlers cannot make meaningful professions of faith)?

If I simply offered an apology to those of you who found themselves offended, it would be somehow dishonest as I honestly still don't see anything scientifically wrong, morally objectionable or linguistically offensive in anything I wrote. If meantime I do realize you are being right, I'll address that, but now I'd really appreciate if somebody took time and explained to me what was offensive and why. :confused:

2) Regarding the bold part, I have a whole set of questions. Anyone willing to answer (we can make a S/O thread, or do it via PMs so as not to chat this thread)?

 

I can only speak for myself, but yes it's the wording the part I bolded.

To say what I believe is silly is something I find offensive.

 

I was a toddler who made a profession of faith. I can't imagine being told that was silly or someone saying that there was no importance attributed to it. It was and still is the most significant day of my life. 3 of my 4 children made professions as toddlers (2 at 3 and 1 at 5.) Again that is a very significant event for us. Huge! I don't think you can comprehend how significant (and that's okay.) To say the single more important day in my life and my children's life is silly and/or unimportant is hurtful/disrespectful. Maybe those are better words than offensive because offensive can mean attack. I don't think you were "attacking" anyone, but it was unpleasant to be told that. Make sense?

 

Laura may not feel that way. But that's how I feel.

 

Can I add that really appreciate that conversation is kind?!! Thank you for that. I would be happy to S/O and talk more. I love good kind respectful and challenging conversations about different beliefs and opinions!

[HappyGrace]

I will pop back when I have more time to post, but just wanted to post this:

“At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, ‘Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?’ He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: ‘I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. For, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.’” (Matthew 18:1-4 NIV)

 

I realize that He meant "with an open and trusting mind LIKE a child"-not that you necessarily have to be a child. But I completely believe that the Christian faith is accessible to ALL-any age, race, etc. God is Love and accepts all who seek Him-ANY person who responds to that Love! There is no intellectualism needed to respond to Love. Sometimes intellectual questions may come later, and at that point, as mentioned above, He gives wisdom to anyone who asks for it and will not resent it.

 

Ester Maria-I appreciate your input, and I think given the fact that you are not in the Christian faith and don't understand all the ins and outs of it, you were trying your best to not offend. One other quick point though-although she is of course constantly exposed to other worldviews (in history, in current event reading, etc.), Christianity does not teach that all truths are viable options. Truth is not relative-everyone's "truth" cannot be right, and you can just pick one. By definition, there can be only one truth.

 

I am slowly trying to get through these great posts (thank you!!!) as I have a minute here and there-busy family day today!

Edited April 11, 2010 by HappyGrace

[milovany]

I don't know if you read about the lives of Saints at all' date=' but it's what has helped me during times of doubt.[/quote']

 

I think this is a very good idea -- I know that doing this has helped us and our kids SEE real, true, life-and-death faith. Here's one book among many that are available describing the life and faith of Christians from throughout the ages who had an orthodox, catholic faith -- one they were willing to die for. This particular book focuses on women martyrs, but there are others as well.

[Joanne]

I didn't find her post the least bit offensive. I agree that no three-year-old would be able to make a decision like that. They may go through the motions, but they don't have the self-awareness and the understanding necessary to really grasp what something like that means. A three-year-old wouldn't even be able to read the bible, so how are they going to make a permanent life change based on it, other than through the filter of mommy and daddy?

 

It's impossible - and it's NOT exclusively my own opinion I'm stating this time, but more a scientific fact - to make an educated choice of a worldview, fully aware of its implications, at the age of 3,

 

I'm a Christian. My children (15, 13 and 11) currently believe in Christ as God.

 

Developmentally, preschoolers are not able to accept Christ as I understand accepting Christ. It's not developmentally or cognitively possible for them to understand the need for salvation, "sin", atonement. I believe they can be in relationship with God, they can pray, but I do not believe they are developmentally able to be born again.

[Liz CA]

I don't know if it will be over her head, but 'A Case For Faith' is an incredible book, and absolutely helped me solidify my faith. The same author (name escapes me) wrote 'A Case For Christ'. He wasn't a Christian before writing 'A Case For Christ' either, but came to Christ through writing the book.

 

I was going to suggest this as well. I believe the author is "Lee Strobel."

On another note: it's normal to be asking questions, this can serve to solidify her views and she won't feel she is following your Christianity, but she will have her own - so to speak.

[MissKNG]

carm.org

 

Check the subtopics:

"Christianity" and "Bible Difficulties"

Edited April 11, 2010 by MissKNG

[Joanne]

carm.org

 

The above link is anti-Catholic (and other often maligned Christian denominations). It's also against other religions represented on this board, but for the Roman Catholic Christians and others on this board, I wanted them to know before they clicked.

[MissKNG]

The above link is anti-Catholic (and other often maligned Christian denominations). It's also against other religions represented on this board, but for the Roman Catholic Christians and others on this board, I wanted them to know before they clicked.

 

Sorry, I should have clarified...check the subtopics:

"Christianity" and "Bible Difficulties"

[Nakia]

I don't have any advice, but I wanted to say that you sound like an awesome mom! She is blessed to have you!!

[Laurie4b]

No, Laurie, let me get this very straight in case it's not that clear in my original post: the only thing I called silly was the IMPORTANCE ATTRIBUTED to an ACT OF A TODDLER, who probably had no idea what exactly was going on and what are the implications of their act. That's the only thing I said - I wasn't disregarding anyone's religious feelings, including those of a toddler in question.

 

What you called silly is indeed the point. I believe, and apparently so does the OP, that "accepting Christ" is a spiritual transaction and not dependent on the ability to process cognitive choices therefore not dependent on age or cognitive ability. For older people, it typically does involve that and for children the cognitive part may come later, but what happens at age 3 can be very real whether the child entirely understands it or not. A child may love Christ. You are assuming that the act of choosing between options is what is at issue here. That is often the way it is processed by adults, but not always. There are different paths into faith.

 

I know adults whose understanding of their own spiritual experience is that they accepted Christ in a very real way at very young ages--3 or 4. I believe we should let people's own interpretations of their experience speak. An adult could just as well say that they "prayed a prayer" at age 3 but didn't really know what they were doing and really came to faith later or later rejected that faith. In the latter case, they would likely say that what they did at age 3 was because of how they were raised, etc. That can happen, too. Neither option negate the possibility that a 3 year old can have a real, eternally lasting connection with Christ. The OP's belief system clearly does allow for a child to enter into a relationship with Jesus at the age of 3, so her discernment about her own child was also scorned. The age at which one is deemed able to enter into a relationship with Christ is not a core part of Christian doctrine and so different denominations believe differently. Some have children wait until an older age before they can take communion, etc. Not all do. Of the denominations whose belief systems allow for a child receiving Christ at age 3, most take posture of watching over the years to make certain that it was a true spiritual transformation, since it's harder to tell with a 3 year old than with a 13 year old or a 23 year old. .

 

There are no Christian 3y.o.s See ---I'm astounded that you would say this! How on earth do you know that there are no 3 year olds who are Christians? There are none as you understand Christianity, but why would you go so far as to say that there are none, or that your beliefs about becoming a Christian are the right ones and superior to those of the OP?

 

I believe there most certainly are 3 year olds who are truly Christians because I believe that is about entering a relationship, not about cognitive processing. The words of Jesus challenge adults in their perceptions of children. For instance, he repeatedly says that adults have something to learn from children when it comes to entering the kingdom. in sense of a choice of their position and the accompanying understanding of that choice, only 3y.o.s that are being raised in Christian families, within a Christian mindset, and that might or might not decide that that's their religious stance as well when they grow up a bit.

A symbolic act performed by a child or on a child who maybe did not even agree (e.g. Catholic baptism of newborns) is one thing - and something I fully support as I realize that people are going to offer to their children the kind of upbringing which is in accordance with their worldview. I don't "judge" anything about it. BUT, a conscious decision of one's position is a completely different thing.You are again assuming that becoming a Christian is a matter of cognition. It's not about choosing one set of beliefs over another. It's about entering into a relationship with a person. I don't know how you can rule out that a 3 year old could enter into an eternal relationship with Jesus.

 

I expressed my opinion which is as follows: what OP's (i) daughter is going through is NOT a crisis of faith and should NOT be addressed as a crisis of fatih, because (ii) there was no thought-out choice of a worldview and understanding of its essence and implications in the first place preceding that crisis. We have a child that's being raised in Christian family who is (iii) searching for a meaning in her life, NOT a Christian in a faith crisis. Those are two very, very different things in my opinion, and I think it's potentially counter-effective to address as a crisis of faith something which, essentially, isn't that.

 

That's all, like I said, I don't expect my opinion to be welcomed at all on these matters; I just thought it might be borderline of an interest to hear what an "outsider" has to say about it. Guess it wasn't. Oh well. :)

 

Here's what was offensive: you

1) made an assumption about what it meant to accept Christ ( a belief that can vary within Christian belief systems) that included a requirement for a cognitive level that 3 year olds don't have. You say it could be a symbolic act but nothing more.

2) Based on your assumption, you then judged a mother's belief that her daughter was a Christian from the age of 3 as "silly." Based on your assumptions, what you then offered could be helpful. But you started with a judgment that the OP's belief that her daughter had accepted Christ at 3 was "silly."

 

That's the part that I think is rude. I cannot imagine telling someone of another faith that their beliefs about how one enters the faith are "silly." That is something entirely different from saying something like, "Well if accepting Christ means a "thought out choice" , then I don't think a 3 year old has the cognitive ability to do that. I'd suggest xyz" . It's not that you offered advice as someone outside the Christian faith. It's that you started with a judgment that this part of the OP's belief system was "silly." Your advice was not what I found offensive; your judgment on the OP's belief system (and mine) was.

 

Edited April 12, 2010 by Laurie4b

[TravelingChris]

I know that I went to church as a child and accepted the beliefs. When I was five, I thought about what I was believing for a long time and decided that I did believe in God. Oh and I certainly knew that I was a sinner and that God didn't like that. SInce I knew I did wrong, obviously God who is all-knowing did too. THis is not age 3 but I am sure that others may believe that a five year old can't reason but I remember where I was and what my thinking was about.

[Joy at Home]

I don't know if it will be over her head, but 'A Case For Faith' is an incredible book, and absolutely helped me solidify my faith. The same author (name escapes me) wrote 'A Case For Christ'. He wasn't a Christian before writing 'A Case For Christ' either, but came to Christ through writing the book.

 

I second these books. There's a children's and teen's version of this series. Very good stuff.

 

Lisa

[Terabith]

What denomination do you belong to?

[Mergath]

You aren't a Christian therefore it makes perfect sense that wasn't offensive.

 

No, but I used to be. I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to have an opinion unless I'm part of the club.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

No, but I used to be. I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to have an opinion unless I'm part of the club.

 

well, now you know. <wink/smile> We'll have to start our own club.

[HappyGrace]

I have appreciated all the help and opinions on here-thank you so much! I am looking into the books suggested, and we're starting today through the book of John. I'm going to try to just keep pointing her back to Scripture, knowing God's Word will not return void. I ordered a couple of the books suggested already-some of the kids' books look great, and the adult ones will be good as resources for me (and read portions aloud to her.)

 

And praying, lots of praying! I appreciate any prayers to add to my own and hers-thank you! The encouraging words and help here have blessed me so much-thanks! I am confident in the Lord that He who has begun a work in her will continue....

[Terabith]

I am a person who has struggled with a LOT of doubts about faith my entire life, from early childhood into adulthood. I got asked to leave kindergarten Sunday School class because of some of my pointed questions.

 

I am still a committed Christian, and my faith has gotten stronger, but I am intimately familiar with doubts and struggles.

 

To be completely, bluntly honest, when I was struggling, being told to "read the Bible" was not only unhelpful but sort of annoying. I did it, and even then I thought reading the Bible was valuable, but as a way of answering questions and doubts, Scripture by itself was not helpful. When you're having doubts about the validity of Scripture, reading Scripture doesn't really answer the questions, you know? It's a circular loop.

 

A lot depends on the *types* of questions she is experiencing.

 

One of the most helpful things for me was to establish a regular, ongoing, personal relationship with a pastor. It helped me to have a space away from my parents to ask these questions and to be able to explore these things without having to worry about protecting my parents or angering or frustrating them. It also helped me make faith my own, rather than something imposed on me from my parents.

 

Another thing that was an issue for myself at that age was denominational affiliation. I felt like I just didn't know anything about other religions. How could I claim a faith as my own, if I didn't know any alternatives? Reading about different denominations, and a bit about other religions, and visiting some other churches was really helpful for me.

 

I know a pastor who is an expert (world acknowledged) in apologetics and who communicates by email and would be happy to correspond to your daughter, I suspect. He has been very helpful for me. PM me if you are interested in contact information.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Terabith

[RegGuheert]

To be completely, bluntly honest, when I was struggling, being told to "read the Bible" was not only unhelpful but sort of annoying. I did it, and even then I thought reading the Bible was valuable, but as a way of answering questions and doubts, Scripture by itself was not helpful. When you're having doubts about the validity of Scripture, reading Scripture doesn't really answer the questions, you know? It's a circular loop.

:iagree:

 

When people are questioning the existence of God or the validity of the Bible, I tend to avoid recommending Bible study as a starting point. In those cases, I prefer to recommend resources that start with general revelation and then later move to special revelation.

 

In case anyone is not familiar with the above terms, here are definitions:

 

General Revelation: Evidence for God's existence and His attributes derived from the nature of the physical Universe.

 

Special Revelation: Evidence for God's existence and His attributes derived from direct communication between God and mankind.

[ereks mom]

These are questions that many people of faith ask! Don't be afraid. :) I think Josh MacDowell has some great resources, like his book Don't Check Your Brains at the Door and some other titles (Answers to Tough Questions) that might help both of you. I am a doubter at times and I enjoyed his books and more recently The Reason for God by Timothy Keller (philosophical and probably over her head for the most part, but I recommend it for adults!)

 

Josh MacDowell's site: http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtEqG/b.4191309/k.BD83/Books.htm These are his books, but you can find some great info right on the website.

 

His book The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict would be a great resource for you.

[LND1218]

No, but I used to be. I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to have an opinion unless I'm part of the club.

 

You are welcome to have an opinion, but it's not going to be the same as mine. I can see why it's not offensive to you - that's all I was saying. You don't believe it, so there is nothing be take offense to. Just like I wouldn't find it offensive to call Siddhārtha's teachings silly or something like that. Or if I said no importance should be placed on those teachings. That wouldn't bother me, but it could bother someone else.

 

You are welcome to have and express your opinion, but it's not the same as someone who is a Christian. Does that make sense?

 

The fact that you claim to "have been" a Christian is just further evidence that you don't understand Christian beliefs.

(Not said to be snarky or unkind - just pointing out that's all.)

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

You are welcome to have an opinion, but it's not going to be the same as mine. I can see why it's not offensive to you - that's all I was saying. You don't believe it, so there is nothing be take offense to. Just like I wouldn't find it offensive to call Siddhārtha's teachings silly or something like that. Or if I said no importance should be placed on those teachings. That wouldn't bother me, but it could bother someone else.

 

You are welcome to have and express your opinion, but it's not the same as someone who is a Christian. Does that make sense?

 

The fact that you claim to "have been" a Christian is just further evidence that you don't understand Christian beliefs.

(Not said to be snarky or unkind - just pointing out that's all.)

 

Well, Steph, not all Christian denominations teach "once saved always saved" so one could have a deep understanding of the Christian faith and have turned one's back on it. Some may look upon such a person as "backslidden" and believe that person will eventually "return to the faith." Whether you believe it or not, it is possible for one to have intimate knowledge of Christianity, including a salvation experience, and then decide it is not true. This does not mean one does not understand Christianity.

[Mejane]

The fact that you claim to "have been" a Christian is just further evidence that you don't understand Christian beliefs.

 

 

I'll bet there are many, many lapsed and practicing Christians who would disagree.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Mejane