Two things I heard this week that made me go, huh?

[stormy weather]

The first was that my cousin has a friend who teaches Remedial Reading at a College. :001_huh: Shouldn't someone be able to read well to even get into college?

 

 

The second was that while listening to the radio I heard that a local public elementary school, that has torn down and rebuilt it's school, is having a fundraiser for their Kindergarten playground. :001_huh: Shouldn't this have been in the budget for the rebuild, that they used tax dollars for already?

 

 

Anybody else have any things that make you go :001_huh:

[Heather in AL]

While I can't speak for the remedial reading at college, I do agree that there should be no need for such a thing at college.

 

I *can*, however, commiserate with the elem. school thing. We had a new elem. school open this last fall and they are still taking donations for.... are you ready for this?......library books!!!! :confused::glare::001_huh: Can you believe it? They are asking citizens to donate books and/or buy some to donate to the school.

[stormy weather]

the ad again and I was so flummoxed the first time I heard it, I missed that the new school was funded by a bond issue. So that means the voters decided to give them money by raising their taxes for a time or perhaps permanantly, and they have the gaul to ask for more?:confused::glare:

 

The library thing is wild too. Where does all the money go? Or do they just not plan these things out very well?

[myfunnybunch]

It could be that the school bond was just for that, a school, and that once all of the necessary parts were budgeted for (classrooms, bathrooms, cafeteria, gym, office, library, earthquake-proof construction) there simply wasn't money left over for a special playground for the kindergarten students. It seems to make more sense that the parents and the community that support the school raise the money for the playground rather than expecting taxpayers to pay for it. In our neighborhood, when the school down the street was built, the PTO raised quite a bit of money for playground equipment.

 

:)

 

Cat

[stormy weather]

thought of "a school" as including all the stuff that goes along with it. :001_smile:

[Carrie12345]

In 14 PA community colleges, 53% of the students need to take remedial courses before beginning regular coursework. In 14 PA universities, 22% of incoming freshmen have to take remedial courses.

 

44% of our 11th graders fail to demonstrate proficiency on our state tests.

 

But hey, they learn how to socialize, right? :glare:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It could be that the school bond was just for that, a school, and that once all of the necessary parts were budgeted for (classrooms, bathrooms, cafeteria, gym, office, library, earthquake-proof construction) there simply wasn't money left over for a special playground for the kindergarten students. It seems to make more sense that the parents and the community that support the school raise the money for the playground rather than expecting taxpayers to pay for it. In our neighborhood, when the school down the street was built, the PTO raised quite a bit of money for playground equipment.

 

:)

 

Cat

 

My beef is that I think that there are a lot of boondagles, shenaningans, and waste at the local level of government compared to the federal government in many places and this includes many school districts IMHO. I hear of briberies, giving contracts for friends, cost over-runs with construction, building unnecessary olympic pools and stadiums, make-believe jobs for friends, and million dollar fuzzy curricula:001_huh: It is a disgrace and I do not buy that our schools need more money at all. There are plenty of schools that are able to deliver a great education for much less IMHO.

Edited March 12, 2010 by priscilla
grammar

[bettyandbob]

some universities have programs for non degree students.

 

As for the school, many schools around have had playgrounds built from PTA raised funds. I think the playground is low on the priority list.

 

I have not heard of schools raising funds for library start up. That's just sad.

[PollyOR]

Okay, I'm going to admit that I was one of those students who needed to do remedial work at the community college. Writing and grammar are serious weaknesses for me, and my math was rusty. Personally I'm thankful as I went on to earn a degree. At the same time, I understand where you are coming from. I think we spend a lot of money trying to make college accessible for everyone when not every person is college material...myself included.

[myfunnybunch]

My beef is that I think that there are a lot of boondagles, shenaningans, and waste at the local level of government compared to the federal government in many places and this includes many school districts IMHO. I hear of briberies, giving contracts for friends, cost over-runs with construction, building unnecessary olympic pools and stadiums, make-believe jobs for friends, and million dollar fuzzy curricula:001_huh: It is a disgrace and I do not buy that our schools need more money at all. There are plenty of schools that are able to deliver a great education for much less IMHO.

 

That may be. However, in the OP's example at least, the school isn't asking for more money from taxpayers. It is asking the community served by the school to participate in a school fundraiser, meaning that donations are not determined by a majority of voters, but by voluntary contributions for very specific purposes. If people choose to show support by donating books or cash to their neighborhood school, it's their choice, just as it's their choice to not do so.

 

I think it's a pretty big leap from a community fundraiser for a kindergarten playground and new books to corruption and swimming pools. (Unless there's a huge swimming pool or stadium at the new school. ;) )

 

Cat

[stormy weather]

Okay, I'm going to admit that I was one of those students who needed to do remedial work at the community college. Writing and grammar are serious weaknesses for me, and my math was rusty. Personally I'm thankful as I went on to earn a degree. At the same time, I understand where you are coming from. I think we spend a lot of money trying to make college accessible for everyone when not every person is college material...myself included.

I understand it not being a strong point. Or having some gaps that need filling.

But these kids apparently cannot read. She said they were insulted when she would give them something like Amelia Bedelia that was on their actual reading level.:confused: How do they make it through High School?

Edited March 13, 2010 by stormy weather

[happyhomemaker25]

The first was that my cousin has a friend who teaches Remedial Reading at a College. :001_huh: Shouldn't someone be able to read well to even get into college?

 

 

 

Due to a schedule mix up when I first entered our community college I was put in a remedial reading class. I was sitting next to all of these grown people who had no idea how to effectively read or comprehend a short story. I wanted to cry for them. My schedule was fixed the next day, but I never forgot that experience.

[EKS]

The first was that my cousin has a friend who teaches Remedial Reading at a College. :001_huh: Shouldn't someone be able to read well to even get into college?

 

 

The second was that while listening to the radio I heard that a local public elementary school, that has torn down and rebuilt it's school, is having a fundraiser for their Kindergarten playground. :001_huh: Shouldn't this have been in the budget for the rebuild, that they used tax dollars for already?

 

 

Anybody else have any things that make you go :001_huh:

 

I have been reading community college catalogs, and it has been amazing how remedial some of the courses are. Prealgebra is an example, and I believe there is a spelling course.

 

As for the playground thing, where we live there is no public funding of playgrounds, so the parents' associations must step in and raise funds.

[Mejane]

My daughter's cc pre-requisite science class uses PH Explorer - the same books I used last year for seventh-grade science for my son. I find it appalling.

[keptwoman]

I have been reading community college catalogs, and it has been amazing how remedial some of the courses are. Prealgebra is an example, and I believe there is a spelling course.

 

This makes perfect sense to me.

 

*Adults who dropped out of school early for many reasons, now regret it and want to better themselves. But need those basics before they move on to more complicated things. It doesn't mean they failed at school because they weren't capable, there are many reasons people fail at school or leave early.

*Kids/adults who got a really crappy teacher at school for a certain subject, but need it for their major; i.e Me! for Physics at school I got 22%, in the equivalent class at University I got 95%

I also took a basic algebra course, as it had been 7 years since I had sat in a classroom and I couldn't remember that stuff. I wasn't at community college though, I was at a full University.

 

I'm glad those remedial things exist, they open up college level opportunities for capable and intelligent people who would otherwise miss out because of something going wrong at highschool level.

Edited March 13, 2010 by keptwoman

[keptwoman]

I can ALMOST accept remedial reading or math at a CC, but not at a 4 year college. That said, my sil teaches--get this--Math 99 AND NOW Math 98! Also known as 5th grade math... They have an entire section of students that are in Math 98 AND English 99, and you, the taxpayer are paying for it! And people wonder why I don't want my children at our local college...

But why? What if someone got pregnant as a teen and now wants to go on and get a degree? Or many many other reasons they end up at that point, needing remedial material before moving on to the normal classes. Just because it's remedial, doesn't mean that they are less intelligent.

[Lolly]

This makes perfect sense to me.

 

*Adults who dropped out of school early for many reasons, now regret it and want to better themselves. But need those basics before they move on to more complicated things. It doesn't mean they failed at school because they weren't capable, there are many reasons people fail at school or leave early.

*Kids/adults who got a really crappy teacher at school for a certain subject, but need it for their major; i.e Me! for Physics at school I got 22%, in the equivalent class at University I got 95%

I also took a basic algebra course, as it had been 7 years since I had sat in a classroom and I couldn't remember that stuff. I wasn't at community college though, I was at a full University.

 

I'm glad those remedial things exist, they open up college level opportunities for capable and intelligent people who would otherwise miss out because of something going wrong at highschool level.

:iagree:

 

But why? What if someone got pregnant as a teen and now wants to go on and get a degree? Or many many other reasons they end up at that point, needing remedial material before moving on to the normal classes. Just because it's remedial, doesn't mean that they are less intelligent.

:iagree:

[rockermom]

Okay, I'm going to admit that I was one of those students who needed to do remedial work at the community college. Writing and grammar are serious weaknesses for me, and my math was rusty. Personally I'm thankful as I went on to earn a degree. At the same time, I understand where you are coming from. I think we spend a lot of money trying to make college accessible for everyone when not every person is college material...myself included.

 

This makes perfect sense to me.

 

*Adults who dropped out of school early for many reasons, now regret it and want to better themselves. But need those basics before they move on to more complicated things. It doesn't mean they failed at school because they weren't capable, there are many reasons people fail at school or leave early.

*Kids/adults who got a really crappy teacher at school for a certain subject, but need it for their major; i.e Me! for Physics at school I got 22%, in the equivalent class at University I got 95%

I also took a basic algebra course, as it had been 7 years since I had sat in a classroom and I couldn't remember that stuff. I wasn't at community college though, I was at a full University.

 

I'm glad those remedial things exist, they open up college level opportunities for capable and intelligent people who would otherwise miss out because of something going wrong at highschool level.

 

But why? What if someone got pregnant as a teen and now wants to go on and get a degree? Or many many other reasons they end up at that point, needing remedial material before moving on to the normal classes. Just because it's remedial, doesn't mean that they are less intelligent.

 

I have no problem with remedial classes. I have many friends who needed these straight out of high school. I also know adults who went back to school with a 20+ year gap between high school and college. Should higher education be an opportunity that exists only for those who received a complete and meaningful education through 12th grade? Should it be unavailable to the single parent in his thirties who would love to go to night school to get a better job so that he can send HIS (or her, of course) children to college one day? Remedial classes exist to help ensure student success by filling gaps, reteaching what should have been taught more effectually the first time and as refresher courses when needed.

 

If one is not proficient in pre-algebra, how can one be expected to flourish in college algebra (and beyond)? The same goes for reading and writing.

[Carrie12345]

But why? What if someone got pregnant as a teen and now wants to go on and get a degree? Or many many other reasons they end up at that point, needing remedial material before moving on to the normal classes. Just because it's remedial, doesn't mean that they are less intelligent.

 

I honestly don't have a problem with these courses being *available*. I have a serious issue with the percentages (at least from my state) of students who require them. 22-53% of our students aren't all young moms or other similar situations.

 

I think it's safe to assume that 22-53% weren't homeschooled, either. They had to get diplomas or GEDs to enroll. I can't wrap my head around the idea of such a huge gap between hs graduation qualifications (or equivalent) and community college 100-level courses.

[keptwoman]

I honestly don't have a problem with these courses being *available*. I have a serious issue with the percentages (at least from my state) of students who require them. 22-53% of our students aren't all young moms or other similar situations.

 

I think it's safe to assume that 22-53% weren't homeschooled, either. They had to get diplomas or GEDs to enroll. I can't wrap my head around the idea of such a huge gap between hs graduation qualifications (or equivalent) and community college 100-level courses.

 

That is an astonishing number! So either the local highschool system is failing the kids miserably, or the College is accepting people who may be better looking for a less academic route to their future?

 

eta; Oh! Thought of a third possibility: the College takes in mainly adults returning to education?

[rockermom]

I honestly don't have a problem with these courses being *available*. I have a serious issue with the percentages (at least from my state) of students who require them. 22-53% of our students aren't all young moms or other similar situations.

 

I think it's safe to assume that 22-53% weren't homeschooled, either. They had to get diplomas or GEDs to enroll. I can't wrap my head around the idea of such a huge gap between hs graduation qualifications (or equivalent) and community college 100-level courses.

 

That is an astonishing number! So either the local highschool system is failing the kids miserably, or the College is accepting people who may be better looking for a less academic route to their future?

 

eta; Oh! Thought of a third possibility: the College takes in mainly adults returning to education?

 

You would seriously be surprised at the percentage of these students who are fresh out of high school. At my freshman orientation, we were told that on 50-60% of us would actually test into Composition I and that 50% of those would fail it on the first try. :confused:

 

(It made me happy that my Comp I & II were completed through dual enrollment. ;))

 

The state should be looking at where these students are coming from and deal with the high schools that sending these large numbers of students out ill-prepared.

[rockermom]

That is an astonishing number! So either the local highschool system is failing the kids miserably, or the College is accepting people who may be better looking for a less academic route to their future?

 

eta; Oh! Thought of a third possibility: the College takes in mainly adults returning to education?

 

(bolding is my own)

 

This statement really disturbs me. Are those who test into remedial classes less worthy of a higher education than those who don't? This attitude strikes me as elitist.

 

I believe that everyone has the right to try to improve his/her situation when it's possible and desired.

[nono]

It seems that the colleges have had to take on what the high schools and grade schools are failing to provide. It makes sense. What wouldn't make sense to me is if people are earning college credit towards a four year degree with these classes.

[rockermom]

It seems that the colleges have had to take on what the high schools and grade schools are failing to provide. It makes sense. What wouldn't make sense to me is if people are earning college credit towards a four year degree with these classes.

 

:iagree:

 

I've never seen an institution that counts remedial/developmental courses toward graduation. Often, students are in school for 2-3 semesters BEFORE they can take courses that actually count in their degree program.

[keptwoman]

(bolding is my own)

 

This statement really disturbs me. Are those who test into remedial classes less worthy of a higher education than those who don't? This attitude strikes me as elitist.

 

I believe that everyone has the right to try to improve his/her situation when it's possible and desired.

No, not at all, but with numbers like that testing in, then either they are accepting large numbers of people who are going to struggle to cope with college level classes or (by the sounds of it) the highschools are not preparing the kids well enough for higher education.

 

You can't seriously tell me that that many kids need remedial reading because of a LD or reading issue of some kind (and if they are then absolutely they should have access to higher education, issues with reading don't mean issues with thinking!)

 

I just don't think that everyone should automatically do an academic course of higher education regardless of capabilities. If they do have the capabilities and have missed out on education somewhere along the line then that's what remedial classes are there for.

 

I guess I don't consider college any better than a trade school, I don't consider it some how worse to go to trade school than to do a 4 year degree. In this country anyway, tradies do very well financially.

[rockermom]

No, not at all, but with numbers like that testing in, then either they are accepting large numbers of people who are going to struggle to cope with college level classes or (by the sounds of it) the highschools are not preparing the kids well enough for higher education.

 

You can't seriously tell me that that many kids need remedial reading because of a LD or reading issue of some kind (and if they are then absolutely they should have access to higher education, issues with reading don't mean issues with thinking!)

 

I just don't think that everyone should automatically do an academic course of higher education regardless of capabilities. If they do have the capabilities and have missed out on education somewhere along the line then that's what remedial classes are there for.

 

I guess I don't consider college any better than a trade school, I don't consider it some how worse to go to trade school than to do a 4 year degree. In this country anyway, tradies do very well financially.

 

Oh, I completely agree about trade school. :iagree:

 

I guess I was misunderstanding you. No, college is not for everyone, but needing remedial courses shouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor.

[Bev in B'ville]

is a junior in high school participating in dual enrollment at the local CC (taking Calculus and Honor's Decision Making - otherwise known as proofs - this semeseter). She has a job in the Student Success Center as a math tutor. She can't believe some of the students she gets who don't even know their multiplication tables or how to work basic fractions.

 

(She gets very interesting comments when people realize she's just 16 yo and she's teaching THEM.)

 

Just as an aside, in her Honor's class she was the only student taking Calculus I, the others were already into Calculus II or beyond. My dd was the only one who knew how to do proofs and ended up tutoring the other students on how to do proofs. Sigh.

[keptwoman]

Oh, I completely agree about trade school. :iagree:

 

I guess I was misunderstanding you. No, college is not for everyone, but needing remedial courses shouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor.

I'm very thankful it's not, since I needed to do some remedial classes to fill some gaps in my highschool education. The damage one bad physics teacher can do!

[Carrie12345]

That is an astonishing number! So either the local highschool system is failing the kids miserably, or the College is accepting people who may be better looking for a less academic route to their future?

 

eta; Oh! Thought of a third possibility: the College takes in mainly adults returning to education?

.

 

I can't find stats on that last one right now.

 

I do know that 44% of our high school juniors aren't scoring proficient (or higher) on standardized testing, yet we have a 78-81% graduation rate.

 

Not that I think standardized testing is the end all, be all...

[TravelingChris]

In our area, which is always rated as one of the best, if not the best school districts, the problem is that they are educated the two groups of kids. Group one does fine, takes lots of AP courses and ends up not needing remedial education in college. Group 2, which is a smaller group, and includes lots of kids from certain ethnicities- Central American immigrants, certain groups from Vietnam and Cambodia, and many others, gets ignored and passed ahead. I was sitting in the waiting room of the local community college as one of the students who graduated locallly was contesting why he was in the lowest remedial reading group. He had apparently been in the USA for at least 9 years and had graduated high school. He couldn't read and comprehend barely anything in English. He kept asking why he got A's in English in high school if the CC thought he couldn't read. I wondered that too. I don't doubt that he really does have major problems with reading comprehension. I don't know which high school he attended or how they graduated him but it is a travesty. Now I graduated from this same school district over 25 years ago. We had plenty of immigrants then too. At least the ones in my classes and activities knew how to read. Back then, the kids who entered elementary school not speaking English or reading it were virtually undistinguishable from the rest of us by the time they graduated from high school.

I know that this poor student's story isn't simply a strange anomaly I encountered because I have seen the breakdown of test scores in my area. But the school system is able to hide the problem since they group all Asians together. SOme of the other groups are doing so well it hides how poorly other groups are doing. The Central American problem is easier to see because there isn't an overwhelming amount of very successful other hispanics to hide the issue. There was in Florida where the Cubans scored very well and the migrant workers scored very poorly.

 

I am not at all implying that all the remedial students are certain ethnicities. I am just saying that I know some of the tricks the schools use to hide their failures. Another is that now instead of tests the school can use a portfolio to assess the child's learning. I wouldn't have a problem with that for children who really aren't on the same schedule for learning- children with down's syndrome, autism, and other significant learning issues. But even for LD children, I think the tests, with necessary accomodations, should be given. What is happening is that some of these schools have taken 30% or more of the children and said they need to be evaluated by a portfolio. Okay, a child who is brand new to the US may not be ready to do a hard test in their first year. But in their fifth or ninth like the student above? Like President George W. Bush said, it is the bigotry of low expectations.

[Renee in NC]

No, not at all, but with numbers like that testing in, then either they are accepting large numbers of people who are going to struggle to cope with college level classes or (by the sounds of it) the highschools are not preparing the kids well enough for higher education.

 

You can't seriously tell me that that many kids need remedial reading because of a LD or reading issue of some kind (and if they are then absolutely they should have access to higher education, issues with reading don't mean issues with thinking!)

 

I just don't think that everyone should automatically do an academic course of higher education regardless of capabilities. If they do have the capabilities and have missed out on education somewhere along the line then that's what remedial classes are there for.

 

I guess I don't consider college any better than a trade school, I don't consider it some how worse to go to trade school than to do a 4 year degree. In this country anyway, tradies do very well financially.

 

Community colleges offer the trade courses here as well, so many of the people taking remedial classes are going into a trade, not the acedemic track. For example, when I looked into the Nursing Assistant course at the cc in NC, you had to pass the reading test (or have college credits.) Many people going to take that course might have to take remedial reading first.

[Mom0012]

My stepdaughter graduated from public high school last year and had to take remedial reading, remedial writing and remedial math (algebra I). She has pretty severe learning disabilities, but wanted to try college. She passed the reading and writing class, but failed math along with half of her class. All the kids that failed that class jumped to a specific "easier" teacher. It looks like my sdd will now pass algebra I.

 

What I wonder is how many of these kids that are taking these remedial classes will ever pass them? And even if they do pass them, will they really be able to do college level work? I seriously doubt my sdd is going to be able to pass all the other levels of remedial math she still needs to take, but the college will probably get a good 3 or 4 semesters out of her before she finally moves on.

 

I also know that her reading and writing did not improve in one semester at the community college, and yet she passed these classes. (This is a girl who has found the Twilight books series difficult to follow and who cannot even write a complete sentence.) Right now she is taking remedial writing II and passing, remedial algebra and passing and a regular college level psychology class and failing.

 

In the end, I think it is all about money for the college because I think most of the people that will succeed in college will not start out in remedial classes. I'm sure there are success stories as well, but I do wonder about the majority of the students in these classes.

 

Lisa

[creekland]

.

 

I do know that 44% of our high school juniors aren't scoring proficient (or higher) on standardized testing, yet we have a 78-81% graduation rate.

 

Not that I think standardized testing is the end all, be all...

 

In our high school (PA) we've also had kids that graduate in the top 10% of their class and test into remedial classes for college. Many students who excitedly head off for college each year are back home by the end of the first semester due to not being able to hack the classes. It's sad. But in the high school (I work there) IF the teachers try to make things more difficult or cover more material they are met with resistance all around - students, parents, admin. If they fail too many students they are considered "bad" teachers even though it is generally the kids that are too LAZY to work at learning something. Practice tests are given that practically mimic the real ones (numbers might change) and most kids still don't bother trying to learn enough to get them all right. And, of course, VERY few can handle any sort of math without a calculator.

 

In Science, they might cover 1/3 to 1/2 of a course in a limited fashion and call it a whole credit.

 

In English, most of the time is used researching and writing papers in class instead of at home.

 

Then there are all the testing days (weeks of them) and special days (just TRY to do work the day before a holiday).

 

AP got dropped years ago as very few could manage more than a 1. In its place was put "college in the high school" where specifically trained teachers teach college level classes. I've noticed top colleges are now refusing credits for those. We also get to do dual enrollment from our cc, but the one course (English Comp) I had my son take seemed more like a high school course from the old days. He got an easy A and was supposedly (probably truly) the top student, but his writing on the SAT/ACT shows him just in the 75% nationally (he's top in math and reading, but not writing).

 

And our high school ranks in the 50% of the state. Half are worse.

 

I agree with having remedial classes in some colleges for a multitude of reasons (including overcoming a bad high school), but that still doesn't change the fact that many high schools (and lower) aren't doing their job of educating their students.

 

When I looked for colleges for my son to attend, they had to have a minimum average SAT/ACT that met my standards AND then I compared MFT (Major Field Test - tests that graduates take to assess what they have learned) scores in one of the majors he plans to take. Not all colleges are equal just as not all high schools are. I wanted to be as certain as I could that he was getting a good education.

 

Now the sad part... my 8th grader wants to go back to school next year. He hears from his friends how easy school is compared to here. We're probably going to let him go for various reasons, but one of the tenets he's going to have to agree to is afterschooling for math and finishing science courses here at home. He's already naturally talented in English, so I'm not worried about that subject. He superb at science too, so finishing those courses here shouldn't bug him. AND, I'm going to be certain he gets into the top of the top classes to give him the best chance at succeeding there. Overall, I wish he'd cherish his education enough to stay home.

[Frontier Mom]

I can ALMOST accept remedial reading or math at a CC, but not at a 4 year college. That said, my sil teaches--get this--Math 99 AND NOW Math 98! Also known as 5th grade math... They have an entire section of students that are in Math 98 AND English 99, and you, the taxpayer are paying for it! And people wonder why I don't want my children at our local college...

 

And here I am stressing that my dcs might not get into college:w00t:

 

Seems like a complete waste of money though; either the person's or the school's money.

[creekland]

And here I am stressing that my dcs might not get into college:w00t:

 

Seems like a complete waste of money though; either the person's or the school's money.

 

 

There are colleges out there for every academic level. If you want highly academic colleges 'tis wise to still keep plugging along with academics and extra-curriculars - esp if one also wants to be competitive for merit aid. These colleges often don't accept anyone from the high school where I work. They have in the past... and every now and then one top kid might make it in (as long as we're not talking top of the top selective schools anyway).

 

If you want just any old "college degree" and don't have any desire for merit aid, then most students could probably find a place to apply to that would accept them now (maybe with some age restrictions).

 

The education levels of graduates are not even remotely the same though. For some fields that matters, for others it doesn't. More parental homework is needed to see what is best for each student (coupled with finances, of course).

[Brilliant]

Seems like a complete waste of money though; either the person's or the school's money.

 

I don't think it is a waste of money. Community colleges in California offer lots of remedial classes. Many of the students are adults (as in not teenagers straight out of high school). The adults who are in the remedial classes WANT to be there to further their educations. I personally know someone who didn't get much of a high school education and worked a physical job for about 20 years. Now he's trying to get a degree. I'm happy this affordable option is available to him and others like him.

[mrbmom77]

I worked at our local university for 5 years and am a student. Almost all of our remedial math and reading students are straight out of our local high schools, not the older ones coming back. We only have a 30% undergrad graduation rate, mostly from these people dropping out after they get their grant and loan money. They simply aren't being educated at the public schools and most of them don't seem to care. My freshman comp professor spent the first few weeks explaining punctuation and parts of speech - things I learned in grade school.

I can't tell you how many Education students have told me that they never read anything that's not assigned - many have literally never read a complete book in their lives! And they go on to teach our kids - one of the many reasons I now homeschool.

Universities should have higher entrance standards, IMO.

[creekland]

Universities should have higher entrance standards, IMO.

 

But... there are Universities and Colleges with higher entrance standards. It's worth it to go to them IMO.

 

And I agree with your assessment of many public schools. It matches the one I work at. It's not a good system and there's no one thing to put a finger on to blame, but lack of love of learning (or interest in learning) from the students would be #1 on my list.

[TXMary2]

I honestly don't have a problem with these courses being *available*. I have a serious issue with the percentages (at least from my state) of students who require them. 22-53% of our students aren't all young moms or other similar situations.

 

I think it's safe to assume that 22-53% weren't homeschooled, either. They had to get diplomas or GEDs to enroll. I can't wrap my head around the idea of such a huge gap between hs graduation qualifications (or equivalent) and community college 100-level courses.

 

This is my beef too. I think those classes should be for adults returning or as refresher courses, but not for incoming Freshmen. The percentages of 18 year olds taking remedial courses in college are way too high and speaks to the dismal state of public education.

[EKS]

My daughter's cc pre-requisite science class uses PH Explorer - the same books I used last year for seventh-grade science for my son. I find it appalling.

 

Like someone else here said, I don't mind these classes being available. However, I do have a problem with them being prerequisites for regular college level courses. When my son goes to the cc in his last two years of high school, it is because he wants to be taking real college courses, not middle school, or even high school courses.