Why would a parent tell their child that college doesn't matter?

[JWSJ]

Recently, when I mention college for the kids among fellow homeschoolers, I get at least a few individuals that say they don't care if their children attend college.

 

They're not against college for their children, but they're not aiming for it either.

 

When we (the parents) sat down years ago to talk about beginning HSing we needed a goal. That goal was and is to prepare our children for college.

 

Obviously, the college path is not a sign of overall success and isn't for everyone.

 

But, why would a parent tell their child that college doesn't matter?

[JFSinIL]

they have kids already interested in careers that involve trade school or an apprenticeship...or they plan to marry well...or live on the dole...???

[j.griff]

I don't understand the question. you say that parents don't care whether their children attend college, and then ask why they tell their dc that college doesn't matter. those are not the same things. and college just does NOT equal success, there are many people who've been VERY successful in life without attending college (lots of folks who never attended college make way more money than people who've completed 4 years and earned a degree). I don't care if my dc go to college or not. If that's what they want, great, good for them. If they want to do something else with their life, then great, good for them. I personally think that college can be a total waste of time and money.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Recently, when I mention college for the kids among fellow homeschoolers, I get at least a few individuals that say they don't care if their children attend college.

 

They're not against college for their children, but they're not aiming for it either.

 

When we (the parents) sat down years ago to talk about beginning HSing we needed a goal. That goal was and is to prepare our children for college.

 

Obviously, the college path is not a sign of overall success and isn't for everyone.

 

But, why would a parent tell their child that college doesn't matter?

 

It could be a few reasons. One, I guess, is that they don't value college as a path for a good life. Or they don't think it's the *only* path, so they are setting up their children not to feel "less than" if they choose something other than college.

 

It could, of course, be that they just couldn't be bothered with all that pesky work to prepare them.

 

I think my best friend would tell her three (homeschooled from day one) sons that college doesn't matter. Her goal is that they become productive, moral citizens. One of those boys is actually *in* college right now (dual enrollment), but that was pretty much a default position because she didn't have the time to engineer rigorous high school unschooling.

 

For me, if I don't see that my children are prepped for college, I'm closing the door *for* them. I want doors (and windows) to be open for my kids. Whether or not they walk through them is a different story. But we won't shut any doors because of a lack of effort for whatever reason.

[GothicGyrl]

Because we as a society place too much emphasis on going to college and thusly make it the "end all be all" of a person's life, as if they don't go they are deemed insufficient for society.

 

Personally, college is NOT that important to me. If my child chooses a career that just doesn't involve college--as long as they are happy, surviving and doing well, I am fine with that. And it certainly is not because I don't want to be "bothered with all that pesky work preparing them".

 

College is NOT the end all be all of life. It is not necessary to survive and a person does not and should not be made to feel they NEED it to make a living. College IS overrated and since they don't make it available to everyone, I feel that being told one should be going off to college instead of working, is a bit hypocritical of them-- some of us can't afford college and never will be able to afford it. When Colleges make education available to everyone, then come to me with "college is important".

 

Right now, it's a joke.

[Janet in WA]

Maybe they're starting to worry about how they'll pay for college, and not having to do so is looking more and more attractive as the time gets nearer. As a parent who is dealing with the cost of college for 2 sons and just getting a loan paid off for a third, I can kind of relate.

[nukeswife]

I don't understand the question. you say that parents don't care whether their children attend college, and then ask why they tell their dc that college doesn't matter. those are not the same things. and college just does NOT equal success, there are many people who've been VERY successful in life without attending college (lots of folks who never attended college make way more money than people who've completed 4 years and earned a degree). I don't care if my dc go to college or not. If that's what they want, great, good for them. If they want to do something else with their life, then great, good for them. I personally think that college can be a total waste of time and money.

 

:iagree: I couldn't have said it better

[Angela in TN]

I don't understand the question. you say that parents don't care whether their children attend college, and then ask why they tell their dc that college doesn't matter. those are not the same things. and college just does NOT equal success, there are many people who've been VERY successful in life without attending college (lots of folks who never attended college make way more money than people who've completed 4 years and earned a degree). I don't care if my dc go to college or not. If that's what they want, great, good for them. If they want to do something else with their life, then great, good for them. I personally think that college can be a total waste of time and money.

:iagree: It all comes down to what our kids want to do. There is no point in sending a kid to college that dosen't desire to be there. I have a friend who has a B.A. and she has never worked a job that needed a degree. She's been a flight attendant, worked at a spa and been a receptionist. If your interest is in occupation that you can go to a trade school for then college is not your best bet and that's all right. We will encourage the kids to go to college if that's what's best for them but I'm hoping at least one of them goes to culinary school for entirely selfish reasons!

[RebeccaC]

I have a bil who never attended college, thinks college is a major waste of time and make around a million a year for well over 10 years distributing and selling video games and systems. He owns his own company and started it in his early 20s.

 

All the while I am still paying off my student loan and I have been out of college for 18 years and as a sahm make nothing a year. I have a brother with a masters in Chem and who works for Dow and does not even come close to what bil makes a year. Which just further cements bil's attitude.

 

I would like my boys to go to college but college does not equate success. Bottom line is college is their choice not mine as is trade school, or some kind of entrepreneurial enterprise, or the military, or....... My choice is to give them the best education that I can that will prepare them to achieve whatever their choice is.

[JudoMom]

my boys to be prepared for college. However, having them attend college isn't my goal. I don't think a college degree is necessary in all cases.

[JWSJ]

I don't understand the question. you say that parents don't care whether their children attend college, and then ask why they tell their dc that college doesn't matter. those are not the same things.

 

Sorry, let me clarify: Why would any parent tell their child that to get a college degree means nothing? (That it amounts to a waste of time.)

 

and college just does NOT equal success, there are many people who've been VERY successful in life without attending college (lots of folks who never attended college make way more money than people who've completed 4 years and earned a degree).

 

Yes, but I am not necessarily talking about financial success. Life is what you make it...

 

I personally think that college can be a total waste of time and money.

 

Yes, but it can be worth the time and money too.

 

Thanks for the replies!

[abbeyej]

Hm... You know, when my mom was home schooling my brother and me, college was always the ultimate goal (even when we ended up going to "traditional" school in high school). It barely even occurred to me that *not* going to college was an option, lol. I went away to school at 17 and finished my BA at 20.

 

My brother went to college (on a really amazing scholarship), but ended up leaving that school and has taken a total of ten years to finish his BS. Of course, he managed to have a good job during that time, buy a house, get married, serve as a Marine reservist (currently in Iraq). He took a different path, but he seems to be leading a good life.

 

Now, things have turned out differently with my baby sister. She's simply not motivated academically. I firmly believe she's as intelligent as my brother and I, but she has some learning challenges and she has never had a burning desire for "book learning". On the other hand, she's a world class athlete -- one of the best in the country, one of the best in the world... She's bound for a different path. My parents are still working hard to make sure she graduates (she's currently a junior) with the foundation to prepare her for college if she decides to go at some point -- but she has no desire to go right now. My mom pointed to the pile of college mail that was coming in and asked her, "S, are you ever going to open any of this?"... S said, "Nah, I'm going to run away and join the circus." Which was funny because she meant it -- Cirque du Soleil is actually a much more likely next step for her right now than college.

 

What I'm trying to point out is that different kids have different paths. And that's okay. College isn't the key to wealth, happiness, or even education. (And I say that as the wife of a professor!)

 

It *is* my goal to prepare my own children as best I can to have as many options as possible when they leave their childhood. I want them to have the option of going to the most rigorous universities their brains can handle *if* that's what they want to do. And I want them to understand what college can and cannot give them for their futures. (And yes, I'll likely encourage them to go!) I also want them to have the life skills to make other choices at that point in their lives...

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea that college "doesn't matter". In some ways it doesn't. As a home school mother, I want my child to be as well prepared as possible (as well prepared as any school could make them) in case that's the route they want to take.

[j.griff]

Sorry, let me clarify: Why would any parent tell their child that to get a college degree means nothing? (That it amounts to a waste of time.)

 

 

 

Yes, but I am not necessarily talking about financial success. Life is what you make it...

Yes, life is what you make it, whether that includes college or not. If you aren't going to actually "need" that college "education" to reach your goals/dreams, then it's a total waste of time and money- that time and money would have been better spent if it had been applied to whatever you needed to ultimately "reach" your "goal/ realize your dream".

 

 

 

Yes, but it can be worth the time and money too.

 

Thanks for the replies!

And why are all young adults expected to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives, and thus make decisions on what college course they should take. And why are there so many "required" classes to take, that may very well have absolutely NOTHING to do with what you want to learn? Pointless, IMO.

[Kris]

I know a lot of people who never went to college who are very successful. I know a lot of people who went to college who are unemployed losers.

 

My job is to make sure my son is *prepared* for college if he wants to go. Other than that, it's up to him. In the end, college only matters if he wants to go.

[Storm Bay]

Does it always make a difference? I know two men, same age, best friends growing up. In fact, one was unofficially adopted by the family of the other--his dad didn't care where he slept, and it literally saved this boy (his mother was out of the picture.)

 

So, the boy with the intact family became a forester and then a lawyer. The other boy started off buying one tugboat. Today, the latter one makes far more money than the lawyer because he found what he loved and what he was good at and built a successful business in BC.

 

While I'm educating my children with university in mind, if they choose other paths that they find fulfilling and pays the bills, I'm all for it. At this point there's no way we can pay for their college, anyway. They'll have to get scholarships or work their way through. We're going to encourage them not to get a huge load of debt. This is probably why my dd perked up when she heard about scholarships from the National Latin Exam (but she'll have to work and study hard) because she knows that in order to leave home and go to school she'll need all the scholarship money she can get.

[JWSJ]

And why are all young adults expected to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives

 

Who expects young adults to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives? :tongue_smilie:

 

And why are there so many "required" classes to take, that may very well have absolutely NOTHING to do with what you want to learn? Pointless, IMO.

 

The "required" classes are due to what the school expects as a minimum for a "well-rounded" education and to gain the degree. It's generally called basic studies.

[Nestof3]

Because some families feel self-employment is a viable option, and there are many careers one could choose that would not require a degree. I would never desire a child to go to college just for the sake of college. College is a means to something, but not everything.

 

Our son will have $40,000 saved up by the end of this year (from working his rear-end off) to use in college or to start a business, but he would never spend all of that hard-earned money if he had no idea what he wanted to do in life. We won't apply for financial aid because we do not believe the taxpayers should pay for college educations.

 

His aunt thinks he should go to college for the sake of experience alone!

 

My husband does not have a degree and makes a decent living being self-employed.

 

We have several friends who are self-employed and supporting their families just fine. Sure, they may not have the plushest life, and many of the men actually have to work hard with their hands, but we don't feel we are particularly called to live a plush life. And we do not value the "white-collared" men over the "blue-collared." We value a life of hard work and integrity.

[Nestof3]

The "required" classes are due to what the school expects as a minimum for a "well-rounded" education and to gain the degree. It's generally called basic studies.

 

And that annoys me. One should be able to center his studies on a "major" without being required to be "well-rounded." Much of that requirement is just job security for professors -- it creates more students. It also just makes more money for the college.

 

Too bad you cannot just get an education (or should I say a "documented education" for many could get the same education without stepping foot in a university) without trying to keep someone in business at the same time.

[GothicGyrl]

Who expects young adults to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives? :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

The "required" classes are due to what the school expects as a minimum for a "well-rounded" education and to gain the degree. It's generally called basic studies.

Most people who expect a child to enter college right out of high school, that's who.

 

And those "basic studies" classes are a waste of time and should only be required if someone cannot pass the entrance exam. And presumably, if a child is entering right out of high school they should be able to pass the entrance exam.

 

But then, don't get me started on those either because I feel the entrance exams are a waste of time as well. I have a general distaste for college right now.. I am being screwed out of an education because I simply cannot afford it. My girls are going to be screwed out of one becaue there is no way we can afford it.

 

IF they are lucky, they will get some type of scholarship. But who knows. Right now, college is just not on the top of my "GO! YEAH!" list.

[Karen in CO]

 

For me, if I don't see that my children are prepped for college, I'm closing the door *for* them. I want doors (and windows) to be open for my kids. Whether or not they walk through them is a different story. But we won't shut any doors because of a lack of effort for whatever reason.

:iagree:

 

If I don't help to prepare them for college, then haven't I failed in homeschooling? If they are well-educated and could get into any college they wanted but chose to not go, then that is their choice. But if I don't buy the books and make the plan for them to have at least the minimum that most schools require, then I am certainly not doing my job as a homeschool parent. Three years of high school math isn't an option for every child, but for the ones that are able they should have at least that.

 

Come people. Sure, you can go far without college, but as home educators don't we have to aim at something?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

But then, don't get me started on those either because I feel the entrance exams are a waste of time as well. I have a general distaste for college right now.. I am being screwed out of an education because I simply cannot afford it. My girls are going to be screwed out of one becaue there is no way we can afford it.

 

 

Well, I worked (or will work to pay back) to pay for college, so it can be done. It might not be feasible for everyone, but even with not one dime of parent help, dh finished school. (I had a few dimes from parents in the beginning, but next to nothing of that 2 1/2 years transferred.)

 

Lots and lots of parents are of the mindset that they simply will not pay for their children's college. And so they don't, simple as that. But their kids aren't screwed out of an education. They just find other ways to finance it other than parental $$. (And frankly, for some kids I don't think that's a bad thing. I've seen tens of thousands of dollars squandered by teens with absolutely no direction in life. Less would be squandered by those particular teens if they had to work for the money themselves, IMO. (And yes, I'm well aware that there are even more teens who are eternally grateful and are applied and motivated and graduate on time via daddy's money.))

 

I'm sorry you're having a hard time right now.

[Plaid Dad]

One reason is that, for some (many?) students, all college gets them is a pile of debt. They are no better educated and no more employable than they were when they went in - just poorer.

 

If the purpose of going to college is "to get a better job" - as most Americans believe - then most students would do better to get focused, short-term vocational training at whatever level is appropriate to their goals than to go up to $100,000 in debt in the space of four years.

[Jami]

I'm certainly not in the "college is necessary for a good life (financial, academic, etc) camp. Dh works for and with some incredibly talented programmers, designers, and entrepreneurs who are self-taught or were mentored in their skills by others rather than college educated. Dh himself has a philosophy degree which did not contribute that much to his practical job training. BUT he (and I) did grow as people and thinkers in college, so it does have that value beyond job training. Being exposed to a wide variety of ideas, people, and mentors may be the very thing that introduces my child to the perfect vocational fit for their gifts and talents.

 

But I do think that a parent who does not educate their child so that college *could* be a future open door does that child a disservice. Our children are not likely to know the full-extent of their talents or interests at these ages and a broad preparation that makes many future choices possible is a gift to them.

 

Jami

[JWSJ]

If the purpose of going to college is "to get a better job" - as most Americans believe - then most students would do better to get focused, short-term vocational training at whatever level is appropriate to their goals than to go up to $100,000 in debt in the space of four years.

 

Yes, but to clarify: college doesn't have to cost $100K. For example, community college is within reach for many people.

[Karen sn]

Ummmm....because I am now $40,000 in debt for a Bachelor of Social Work and I never made any money with it because you really need a masters. When I realized this, I decided to go back for 2 years and be a registered nurse instead. All of my electives had been science so I got right in to core nursing classes and it only took two years - same time it would have taken to get the MSW.

 

Let's face it - nurses can go and work anywhere for good money and will ALWAYS have a job. Not so my experience in the field of social work.

 

College is good I guess for a zillion reasons - met so many other young wonderful diverse kids. Did so many things -rock climbing club, FSU rowing team, running 5K's, cool roommate experiences.

 

But for all the debt?

 

I tell my kid she's going to college. But between us - when I save her $ and she's 18 she can either buy land or school with it.

 

And I support all kids who take a year off. Going back when you're really ready is fun - I enjoyed school much more the second time around. I think SOME young kids should travel the world before college or set off on some big adventure.

[Daisy]

College is not the "goal" of our homeschool. College-ready is one of our goals. I expect my children to have received the education necessary to be able to pursue whatever field of study or vocation they choose. I do not immediately assume that includes college (although Dh and I, both have degrees). If asked by another homeschooler, I may have responded with something like, "College isn't really our end-goal. We want our children spiritually and academically ready for whatever God has in store for their life."

 

We also don't plan on paying for our children's college education but that is another thread entirely. LOL.

[pixelroper]

as to the 'why' would they say that- I know a few and while I won't list all the variations here is the 'general summation' of "why" they say this: they view college as an extension of ps, and their reasons for hs are the same reasons they object to/reject college.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

And that annoys me. One should be able to center his studies on a "major" without being required to be "well-rounded." Much of that requirement is just job security for professors -- it creates more students. It also just makes more money for the college.

 

Too bad you cannot just get an education (or should I say a "documented education" for many could get the same education without stepping foot in a university) without trying to keep someone in business at the same time.

 

Hmm, well, I have to say I'm a big fan of the liberal arts model. It expanded my little world way back in the day. It annoys the stuffing out of me that all I have time to take right now are nursing classes. And I'm left wishing some of my younger classmates were required to become a bit more well-rounded before they are let out into the world to be RN's. Lots of narrowness and cultural inbreeding here in East TN, where many of my classmates have grown up and will never leave.

[GothicGyrl]

:iagree:

 

If I don't help to prepare them for college, then haven't I failed in homeschooling? If they are well-educated and could get into any college they wanted but chose to not go, then that is their choice. But if I don't buy the books and make the plan for them to have at least the minimum that most schools require, then I am certainly not doing my job as a homeschool parent. Three years of high school math isn't an option for every child, but for the ones that are able they should have at least that.

 

Come people. Sure, you can go far without college, but as home educators don't we have to aim at something?

I'm sure you probably are speaking of just yourself, but I kind of resent the comment about "failing in homeschooling" if one doesn't prep their kids for college.

 

No, I emphatically do NOT consider you or anyone else a failure for not prepping your kids for college. Not one whit. As others have pointed out, college just is not what it is cracked up to be. My job right now, is to educate them as best I can. Using every means available to me.

 

It does not make me a failure at homeschooling(or anyone else for that matter) if we don't "prep" our kids for college and they don't go.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

as to the 'why' would they say that- I know a few and while I won't list all the variations here is the 'general summation' of "why" they say this: they view college as an extension of ps, and their reasons for hs are the same reasons they object to/reject college.

 

True dat. I've heard that argument often in some circles.

[Plaid Dad]

Yes, but to clarify: college doesn't have to cost $100K. For example, community college is within reach for many people.

 

Yeahbut, if the goal is better employment, a CC degree isn't going to cut it in all situations. I used to work for a company that processes resumes for all kinds of corporations, and companies routinely screened out candidates whose degrees came from community colleges. That's not to say that there's no value at all in them - particularly as a stepping stone to other schools - only that there's a limit to the doors a CC degree alone will open.

[GothicGyrl]

Yes, but to clarify: college doesn't have to cost $100K. For example, community college is within reach for many people.

Research it, closely please.

 

Community College is NOT within reach of many. In fact, one still has to qualify financially, in order to enter CC--one has to take an entrance exam, which means pay for more "basic classes" than one needs, should they not do to well on the exam. Which means that 2 year AA, becomes a 4 year and sometimes "never year" AA.

 

Sorry, it is unrealistic to assume everyone can afford to go or even "find the means". I am not willing to live by "pennies" for this "education". I am not willing to worry about how bills will get paid while I get this highly "prized" education. Nope. And I won't force my kids to think they need to either.

[Sue G in PA]

I got my degree in Psych knowing full well that to pursue that field at all I'd have to go on to get my Masters Degree. Well, dh got a degree in Theatre Arts :001_huh: and is now in the education field (NOT teaching Theatre although he did for a time in a city hs). My parents, God bless them, went into major debt to fund my college years. Now, here I sit, married, with almost 7 kids and absolutely nothing to show for my pricey college education (except my dh and the kids :D). I wonder sometimes if my folks are disappointed. Both dh and I also found when we were job hunting that employers cared less about our pricey college education than the specific skills that we had. Funny, but that pricey college didn't really teach us any real-life skills, KWIM? I, fortunately, learned many job related skills on my own. Anyway, I'm certainly not poo-pooing college. I'd LOVE for my dc to go...I had a terrific experience that certainly helped shape who I am today. But, I also realize that college is not the end all, be all when it comes to high paying jobs or job security. I'd honestly love to teach my children the skills necessary to go into business for themselves one day. Plus, I don't know yet what God has planned for them and that's probably my most important goal for them...to follow God's calling on their life and do what He has for them to do. Great thread, btw...sure gets you thinking about goals!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It does not make me a failure at homeschooling(or anyone else for that matter) if we don't "prep" our kids for college and they don't go.

 

How about if I don't prepare a child who is capable of college and they *can't* go because I don't bother to ensure they are educated to the extent of their ability? Would you consider that a failure?

 

What is your goal of homeschooling? Mine is to open doors and to have moral, productive citizens, but not necessarily only college doors. Not to exclude that, but not to single that as the Ultimate Option.

 

("Productive citizenship" includes at least what at the turn of the century was a high school education. That's just my definition, but I thought I'd define what I meant by the above.)

[GothicGyrl]

I am off to bed right now, but I thought I'd answer you before.

 

How about if I don't prepare a child who is capable of college and they *can't* go because I don't bother to ensure they are educated to the extent of their ability? Would you consider that a failure?

 

I guess my thinking on this is: to whose extent are we speaking--the "I know he can do it, therefore he will" extent or the "I know he can do it, but he's also showing signs of going down a path much different than what I would choose" extent?

 

EG: is it a path you think he should go down or are you really letting him choose the path he wishes? Or even better: "My kid ain't gunna be no rock star, they amount to nuthin' good" (which is not true, but believed by so many) and this line of thinking then makes the child alienated towards you because "daddy is disappointed I won't go in to the family business".

 

For me, I want my girls to do whatever their heart desires--if that's a "no good rock star" then so be it--it's farther than I ever got. Therefore I will not force college education on them. I will suggest it, but I will tell them to keep their options open--one DD wants cosmetology school--great! But that wouldn't be sufficient for some parents because it isn't a "college education"--which I find sad.

 

What is your goal of homeschooling?

 

To give them the best education I can give them in the here and now. Yes, I do educate them well beyond their peers and what they would be doing in PS, but that does not mean I am doing so with college preparation in mind. So my kid doesn't score well on the SAT.. so what?!

 

It's like sports--some parents are so wrapped up in sports and their kids particpating that anything short of "success" is failure. And that stinks. The SAT is not the end all of life either and neither is sports.

 

But I can assure you my kid won't be flipping burgers for the rest of their lives. And even if they did, that's more than I can say about some people and their work ethic.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My goal for my children is for them to be liberally educated - that means being well rounded in the humanities, sciences, and the arts. I chose classical education and Charlotte Mason education because I think both promote a liberal arts education. I think a good college degree CAN be a further step in being liberally educated. But I also realize that you can do an awful lot with a good library and a heart to learn.

 

Yes, I want my children to be able to support themselves and their families. Depending on their gifts that may involve college or it may not. I realize my children are still young, but so far all of their goals for their future have involved occupations that require at least a B.A. And what I know of their personalities and abilities and talents, I think that will hold true even if the details change every three months!

 

Yes, I want my children to be first and foremost godly people with a close relationship with God. College may or may not help that - and it could in many cases hinder it or at least be a test!

 

But I think it is a honorable goal to want homeschooling to prepare my children for college, if they want to pursue that. I may not be able to raise all the funds for them to attend college debt free, but I definitely do not want to close the door for them by not preparing them, if they were to choose to go.

[PinkInTheBlue]

I'll be certain they have an education that makes it possible for them to go to college but I'm not spending thousands and thousands of dollars for them to learn how to be better partiers (I hope I teach them better than to make that decision) or pay for an education they never use.

 

Through different circumstances neither my husband nor myself completed a college education and we make a significant income as self-employed business owners. College is great but, no, I definitely do not see it as necessary. If they do want to go, it will take a remarkably focused teenager for me to agree to immediately going to college anyway. What teenager really has ANY idea of what they truly want to do the rest of their lives? What's the accurate percentage of people who are actively working in the field that their multi-thousand dollar education bought them?

 

Also our income aside, I will not be paying for their college. They can work, receive scholarships, student loan and we'll help some. If they want to go, that's great but again, I'm not spending thousands of dollars for a degree that's often not used and an experience they can better get in the "world" of real life. College is such an unrealistic experience to life. The experience of earning your degree makes it more valuable to them anyhow.

 

(All said in my opinion and written quickly because I MUST assemble these Easter baskets! :willy_nilly:)

[Mama Lynx]

I think that in most cases college is not a complete waste of time. I am preparing my children to go to college.

 

On the other hand, it is up to them whether they will go. I have a degree, but my husband does not. We can argue it either way. Nor will I be able to pay for them to go to college, so it *must* be a voluntary commitment on their part, with enough motivation to go to swing the cost.

 

I know too many successful people without degrees to think that it matters in terms of success. Still, I enjoyed college, and think that it can be very beneficial (depending on the college, the faculty, and the motivation of the student). I support my children in going and present it as a Good Thing ... but not as the only thing.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Research it, closely please.

 

Community College is NOT within reach of many. In fact, one still has to qualify financially, in order to enter CC--one has to take an entrance exam, which means pay for more "basic classes" than one needs, should they not do to well on the exam. Which means that 2 year AA, becomes a 4 year and sometimes "never year" AA.

 

Sorry, it is unrealistic to assume everyone can afford to go or even "find the means". I am not willing to live by "pennies" for this "education". I am not willing to worry about how bills will get paid while I get this highly "prized" education. Nope. And I won't force my kids to think they need to either.

 

Which reinforces my point: the basic classes one has to take are actually "retakes" of classes that a person is expected to have mastered in high school. I'm one of those who only got very basic math education in my private Christian high school that my parents sacrificed to send me to, so I had to take "college" algebra all over again. I never did make it to freshman math, much to my chagrin. And yes, it was a waste of money.

 

How much better would it have been had I mastered algebra in high school and had started college on college level, with no remediation necessary? A d*mn sight better, I'd say.

 

So if I were homeschooling highschool and didn't give my kids the basics to start at the beginning -- not behind by a couple of years -- in college classes, I think I would be putting them at a distinct disadvantage.

 

Which is, precisely, the reason that I do not homeschool highschool. I can't give them what they need. And I'm determined that they *will* be offered what they need. Whether or not they take advantage of the offer is up to them. But I'm sure not going to limit their lives like mine was limited by a half fast high school education.

 

YMMV, standard disclaimers, yada yada, the thoughts of the alphabet woman do not imply endorsement by the owners of the board, etc ad nauseum.

[Kelli in TN]

Some sort of continuing education is just sort of expected around here.

 

We work with college in mind, we work with assumption that college scholarships are absolutely necassary as there is no college fund to tap into.

 

We consider college prep and high ACT scores to be the norm.

 

The kids know that at the very least they can go to community college.

 

I will have them ready for college. I will try to help them nudge their ACT as high as possible. I will help them find and document meaningful volunteer work.

 

After that it is up to them.

[pixelroper]

the basic classes one has to take are actually "retakes" of classes that a person is expected to have mastered in high school.

 

exactly-- in fact this gets me so fired up (don't worry) I have to pipe in-- I have alot of nieces and nephews who have gone to college and feel like idiots because they need to take classes such as: math 88, math 89, math 98...., they aren't stupid (but in some cases have been told so, another story) they were never encouraged or the classes were never offered. Some have dropped out, utterly defeated; others have stuck with it and paid good money for what are essentially hs classes, so they went full time for 1-2 just to be able to take college level classes. Not to veer off track but 'go to *free* ps then pay for community college hs level classes? Conflict of interest???

[gardenschooler]

:iagree: It all comes down to what our kids want to do. There is no point in sending a kid to college that dosen't desire to be there. I have a friend who has a B.A. and she has never worked a job that needed a degree. She's been a flight attendant, worked at a spa and been a receptionist. If your interest is in occupation that you can go to a trade school for then college is not your best bet and that's all right. We will encourage the kids to go to college if that's what's best for them but I'm hoping at least one of them goes to culinary school for entirely selfish reasons!

 

Well, if we're talking purely selfish reasons...

 

I wouldn't be terribly upset if mine could find a decent trade they'd be happy with and make a decent living.

 

And isn't it funny how many people get a degree then completely do a 180 and do something else - that doesn't require a degree?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

exactly-- in fact this gets me so fired up (don't worry) I have to pipe in-- I have alot of nieces and nephews who have gone to college and feel like idiots because they need to take classes such as: math 88, math 89, math 98...., they aren't stupid (but in some cases have been told so, another story) they were never encouraged or the classes were never offered. Some have dropped out, utterly defeated; others have stuck with it and paid good money for what are essentially hs classes, so they went full time for 1-2 just to be able to take college level classes. Not to veer off track but 'go to *free* ps then pay for community college hs level classes? Conflict of interest???

 

Oh, I think that colleges are extremely frustrated by this. It's a big waste of the student's time, and they know it. High schools are failing students left and right, and I don't mean as in "not passing" their students. They are failing to educate them. My public high school wouldn't have given me two years of high school algebra credit for not-quite-algebra I like the private one did. I guess you just have to advocate for your kids and know whether or not the schools are meeting objective benchmarks. (I'm veering off track here. Sorry.) Anyway...

 

Had I been more proactive -- heck, had I even known I was behind, because I sure did not know -- I would have simply honed my math skills (with an Amish home study course -- quick, name that movie!) and tested again.

 

Or sought out adult ed opportunities, or a tutor, or something. These days, I would find an online opportunity or something like Thinkwell or ALECS or both to supplement a traditional high school textbook. Anything but waste my money on a high school subject that I should have had available to me in flippin' *high school*!

[pixelroper]

frustration with my college as well-- was angry no one ever told me to try to test out, I could have saved myself a ton of grief, my experience was the flip side of where I live now, they do not prepare the kids at all, I was prepared and had to take classes darn near my hs classes for the credit- which I think is what you were talking about "rehashed hs classes"

 

for my dd IF she decides to go on to college, I'm afraid "they" will be very annoyed at the level of interest I take in her education. My parents never really questioned the education system.

[j.griff]

How about if I don't prepare a child who is capable of college and they *can't* go because I don't bother to ensure they are educated to the extent of their ability? Would you consider that a failure?

 

What is your goal of homeschooling? Mine is to open doors and to have moral, productive citizens, but not necessarily only college doors. Not to exclude that, but not to single that as the Ultimate Option.

 

("Productive citizenship" includes at least what at the turn of the century was a high school education. That's just my definition, but I thought I'd define what I meant by the above.)

 

Um, what could a parent do that would cause a child to *not* be able to go to college? (besides beating their brains out, etc.). *My* goal for *my* kids is to teach them how to learn, teach them to be free-thinkers, teach them to always question authority, teach them that they are priceless, precious, irreplacable people and that they *MATTER* no matter what life choices they make, to teach them that we are all connected and that everything we do "matters", and that they never "have" to fit the "norm" in order to be successful (which means WAY more than finances, IMO success= being content and LOVING what you do, that may mean living like a monk and giving all their money to others in need, it may mean travelling the world and working odd jobs while learning first hand about different cultures/people, it may mean studying their arse off so they can get a degree and become a big whig Dr. or scientist or what-have-you, it may mean they spend all of their time playing and creating games, it may mean they work at Wal-mart as a day job and then act in community theater after work. :D ). I want them to learn to respect EVERYONE, including people who don't "seem" to respect themselves. I want to teach them to make a difference and pursue *their* dreams- no matter what ANYone else thinks/expects/says. I want to teach them not to judge other people, and to follow the Golden Rule, and to think for themselves ESPECIALLY if they are going in the same direction that "The crowd" is headed. I want them to do what *they* want to do, for their own reasons and not for someone else's reasons.

 

If a person really wants to go to college, they will find a way- even if that means they have to study after work until they are 30 before they are able to pass an entrance exam. If it's something you REALLY want, you can make it happen. Blaming parents is just a cop-out. I say, if you raise your kids and they survive all the years of childhood, then you have succeeded. I don't think ANY parent is a "failure", I think that EVERY parent does the best that THEY can do, period. Even if someone else thinks they could have done a "better" job, they did the best that they were capable of at that time. Comparisons stink, and are hardly ever helpful, IMO. We are all different people, seeking different things.

[pixelroper]

If a person really wants to go to college, they will find a way- even if that means they have to study after work until they are 30 before they are able to pass an entrance exam. If it's something you REALLY want, you can make it happen.

 

where there is a will, there is a way- it usually makes for a better college experience anyway

[Remudamom]

Well, our oldest is off at college, doing fine and enjoying it, but I wanted him to go to meet people, see what the world is like and get off the ranch. If he wants to do something else, fine. If he wants to come home and ranch, better.

 

My college degree (and hubby's) are worth nothing. Big whup. Mine doesn't help me homeschool (and it's in education) and hub's doesn't help him raise cattle. Now if I had gone to vet school, which I almost did, that would've been handy.

 

We know sucessful folks who didn't go to college. To me, college can be a great experience, but not completely because of the education. If all ours want to go, great. If not, there's room on the ranch for lots of hard workers.

[gardenschooler]

I am being screwed out of an education because I simply cannot afford it. My girls are going to be screwed out of one becaue there is no way we can afford it.

 

IF they are lucky, they will get some type of scholarship.

 

Did I miss an update on your college situation, Toni? What about that scholarship - are you saying you don't qualify for it?

[camibami]

*My* goal for *my* kids is to teach them how to learn, teach them to be free-thinkers, teach them to always question authority, teach them that they are priceless, precious, irreplacable people and that they *MATTER* no matter what life choices they make, to teach them that we are all connected and that everything we do "matters", and that they never "have" to fit the "norm" in order to be successful (which means WAY more than finances, IMO success= being content and LOVING what you do, that may mean living like a monk and giving all their money to others in need, it may mean travelling the world and working odd jobs while learning first hand about different cultures/people, it may mean studying their arse off so they can get a degree and become a big whig Dr. or scientist or what-have-you, it may mean they spend all of their time playing and creating games, it may mean they work at Wal-mart as a day job and then act in community theater after work. :D ). I want them to learn to respect EVERYONE, including people who don't "seem" to respect themselves. I want to teach them to make a difference and pursue *their* dreams- no matter what ANYone else thinks/expects/says. I want to teach them not to judge other people, and to follow the Golden Rule, and to think for themselves ESPECIALLY if they are going in the same direction that "The crowd" is headed. I want them to do what *they* want to do, for their own reasons and not for someone else's reasons.

:hurray:

 

 

You said it!

 

Maybe it will be college, maybe it will be the circus. Either way, the older I get, the more I see life and its options as so wonderful. I want them to see that, too.

 

Cami

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Um, what could a parent do that would cause a child to *not* be able to go to college? .

 

Maybe discourage them because of a poor high school education? I think as homeschoolers we want to open doors, not close them.

 

I don't think my goals are that far off from yours. And I'm all for those choices, too. But when one only has Walmart as a choice, that's not really a choice. (And lest one thinks I look down on the Walmart casheir, I certainly do not. Nor a burger flipper at McD's. All work is honorable, IMO.)

 

For me, I think it's important that I not put barriers in my child's way so that if he so chooses to enter college straight out of the education I arrange for high school, he may do so. If he chooses not to avail himself of the education, it's still on him. But a quality education that meets his intellectual capacity (whatever that might be) will be available.

 

I think blaming parents is a pretty stupid exercise in hindsight. But I think not being proactive and doing the best for my child is pretty stupid, too. And I'm only speaking for my own self and my own children here. I'm not comparing myself to anyone.