I do NOT see the people who are condemning women for having abortions offering to take THOSE children and raise them. Yes, there may be lines ad adoption clinics to adopt newborn white babies. My point is, if none of those who go around talking about how HORRIBLE abortion is, are going and offering to take those kids that are being aborted. Yes, there are orphanages, but HERE in our own country couples are going to other countries to adopt those children. I have done my own fair share of research, and have obviously come to different conclusions that you. That does not make me 'uninformed'. Maybe I didn't take the time to clarify each and every point and back it up with linkage and such, but my opinion is not uninformed. And Kelli, I wasn't 'jumping on you'. You made some statements, and I just made statements of my own that disagree. I don't think we will ever agree on such issues, so I am bowing out. I can sense when it's a waste of time to continue a conversation.

I don't see throwing money at an issue as taking action. I don't belive the Heifer Project is actually helping anyone either. They are giving cows to people who were not depending on cows before. Then those people have to have grain to feed the cow. If they spent that time/money educating them and providing a way for them to grow real food, then they would be a much longer lasting and life sustaining project. There are more sensible vegan charities that help provide actual solutions instead of spreading the problems developed countries have from raising animals for food. And seriously, I hear so many people say how they'd love to have those babies that are being aborted, but I don't see those same people going down to abortion clinics and offering to raise the unwanted child. I just don't see any action, except condemning people for their choices. Protesting is not action, it does nothing. Talking about an issue isn't action either. There seems to be a LOT of judgement and control, and desire of controlling others actions, without any real offers of solution. But that's JMHO.

:001_smile: So, would you say, that in YOUR experience, many people make that assumption? Just as others have experience that leads them to make that assumption?

Very interesting thought. I don't see this as a house either. I see it as a wonderful community that supports each other, and a place to go to discuss things dear to our hearts. I do see some views being more tolerated than others though. I have no idea how much time it takes to delete all those thread with dissenting opinions, but it must take quite a lot of time, and it must be terribly draining to hear the same things over and over and over again, and have to delete them over and over and over again.

Christy, here's a link to some interesting reading regarding anarchy. http://www.apolitical.info/articles/display.php?art=003 It is not the evil and nihilistic chaos that many assume it is. I will have to dig more into my linkage for info on fascism. Right now, I'm off to do a family thing. :D

I was recently introduced to Fleet Foxes. I really like White Winter Hymnal http://www.myspace.com/fleetfoxes

All life is valuable. People are going to be killed, in ANY stage of life, no MATTER who is president. There will be more, and spread over a wider area, with a war-monger as president. *shrugs*. There are so many things wrong in this country, I find it sad that SO many voters are hyperfocusing on one issue, and dooming the rest of us to deal with the many other issues for a longer time because of one issue, which will NOT even change because of their vote.

"oops, i accidentally blew up 200,000 civilians. oh well."

wow, WTH? Did you just drink too much coffee for breakfast? BTW, I am not an atheist. I did not intend for that to be taken as a political 'punch'. Sorry you are feeling defensive. I haven't even been Posting on these boards for a while now. I come back and post a couple of things, and then you attack me personally by calling me juvenile. Wow. I don't think I like posting here. I have not been involved in any political threads, except this one, and I do believe the idea of banning information is a political idea. I am an anarchist, I abhor ALL forms of government. I think people are usually intelligent enough to 'govern' themselves without fascists (I think ALL politicians are fascists, see, we don't necessarily disagree there. :) ) interfering and controlling what we are allowed to do.

LOL, I can see the new world peace campaign now, "MYOB" on banners throughout the world. Of course, the acronymn would be different in some countries.

fas·cist /ˈfæʃɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fash-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person who believes in or sympathizes with fascism. 2. (often initial capital letter) a member of a fascist movement or party. 3. a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views. –adjective see definition number three.

Well, t-shirts generally do cover the torso- unless they are midriffs, which are usually referred to as midriffs and not just plain "tees". Sammy says her DD wears 'tight' t-shirts, and you are saying that 'some tight tees fall into that category".

A fun and interesting psychological experiment.

Ozzy.

Not exactly. :)

I am a Christian, and I do spend quite a bit of time pondering common morals, etc. That's why I participate in these discussions, ;)

No, I don't think it IS moral for a large group of people to force their personal moral beliefs onto another group of people, or an individual. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in the right to self defense, :D It's the part where a certain majority gets to legislate what is legally "moral", with no interest in even acknowledging the fact that another set of morals are just as valid as their own. They may disagree, but that shouldn't give them the right to force their morals onto another, unless they are being personally physically threatened (in which case *I* believe they have a right to self defense). IMO, the outcome of two individuals having a conflict over whether or not one can eat the other's baby, would end with the "hungry" party being shot in the head. The end. No more conflict.

Then the mob/majority rules. Or the stronger one rules (survival of the 'fittest' LOL).

I was "fired" from a job at a huge grocery store, bagging groceries. We were supposed to carry out the groceries, I was pregnant, had back pain, and didn't think it was a good idea to carry out a persons groceries, when all the boys working with me were MORE than happy to let me do the bagging so they could carry the loads out and get the tips from the customers (we weren't supposed to accept tips, but lots of customers were VERY insistent). The Manager (capital M) of the store was watching me, and saw I was letting the guys take the groceries I had bagged out to the customers cars. He sent his assistant to order me to carry out the next order, or else clock out. I refused to do either. He asked me WHY I wasn't carrying the orders out, and I pointed at my belly and said, "I'm PREGNANT. It HURTS my back to take them out and load them into trunks and pick up trucks, and it's just not SAFE for me to have to climb up into some of the customers' huge trucks to load their groceries for them.) I didn't take that load out, and he "fired" me. Hahaha. After some research, and learning of the "pregnancy discrimination act of 1976" I filed a grievance through the union, and got back pay for it, and was "allowed" to work there again after dd was born.

I don't see how putting them on "restriction" will help them wind down better, and go to sleep faster. IMO, that's not solving the sleeping problem ;) *I* would just invest a bit more of my time to monitor them at bed time, to make sure they are settling down at bed time, and not getting wound up.

"Hi, you have reached *my first name* (note, this is on my cell phone, we no longer use a landline), please leave a message." I like to keep it simple, I think people just want to know they've reached your number, and get to the "leave a message" part. I don't think people like to be on hold for longer than necessary, while waiting for that magic beep.

Have you considered getting guinea hens? I hear they are wonderful about eating ticks. :) If my child got that many ticks on him, just walking to the car, I'd be pretty freaked about the overabundance of the critters.

Sounds like a good way to live. :D

I would try to find a balance. Do you have the funds to buy a hybrid vehicle? I keep reading about how financially secure you all are, and if being "green" is a BIG deal for DH, and being able to travel is a BIG deal for you, having a hybrid sounds like a wonderful compromise. :) Maybe I'm totally off though.

I said *I* would say that. That doesn't make it *so*. ;) All it means is that *I* think it is *wrong* to eat another person (and animals are people too ;) )