Nice non-homeschooling friends who just don't GET IT

[mrsanniep]

Do you just avoid the topic of education altogether?

 

I have several lovely friends who can't seem to get it through their heads that we're homeschooling for the long-term. They are constantly asking what my plans are for our youngest, who starts Kindergarten next year. And how will my oldest adjust to "new math" if he ever attends the local public school? And on and on.

 

It's starting to drive me nuts.

 

One friend in particular is super sweet and I love her to death. I really do. But she's not a deep thinker when it comes to her own kids' education. She just sends them off to the local PS and assumes the schools know what they're doing. That she questions MY choices when I stay quiet about hers is starting to put a wedge in things from my point of view. I'm just running out of diplomatic ways to deal with questions and "concerns" and really don't want to jeopardize friendships. These aren't mean, catty people. They're just sheep, KWIM?

 

Any advice? Words of encouragement?

[Daisy]

I completely 100% understand.

 

You just described several of my Before-Homeschool Friends (B4HsF). We avoid the topic of education now and yes, we have drifted apart over the last four years because of this issue.

 

It is difficult when a HUGE part of our lives is off limits for conversation.

 

They don't get that I'm not passing judgment on their educational choices. They think they have the right to constantly tell me all the negatives of homeschooling, grill my kids, call and ask me if I'm getting out enough with the children, etc. They also have some major passive aggressive behaviors and frankly, I just get tired of passing the bean dip so it is easier to avoid spending too much time together.

 

It isn't so much a problem with "new" friends because they've always known us as homeschoolers.

[kpupg]

Yes, I try to avoid the topic.

 

You may need to be a bit more assertive and point out to these people the rudeness they are -- hopefully inadvertently -- engaging in, that it still hurts you and damages the relationship.

 

Some people will get it and some people won't until you ask outright to make it an off-limits topic.

 

I get this mostly from public school teachers who just can't see outside their own little pigeonholes. If it comes up a 3rd time, I consider it fair game for me to be forthright instead of deflecting. That usually brings an end to the cycle.

 

:grouphug:

 

Karen

[Jean in Newcastle]

"I'll let you know if anything changes on the education front. Meanwhile let's talk about (something else)."

[Snickerdoodle]

After a deliberately long silence you could say, "How would you like me to answer that?"

[i.love.lucy]

I completely 100% understand.

 

You just described several of my Before-Homeschool Friends (B4HsF). We avoid the topic of education now and yes, we have drifted apart over the last four years because of this issue.

 

It is difficult when a HUGE part of our lives is off limits for conversation.

 

They don't get that I'm not passing judgment on their educational choices. They think they have the right to constantly tell me all the negatives of homeschooling, grill my kids, call and ask me if I'm getting out enough with the children, etc. They also have some major passive aggressive behaviors and frankly, I just get tired of passing the bean dip so it is easier to avoid spending too much time together.

 

It isn't so much a problem with "new" friends because they've always known us as homeschoolers.

:iagree:I never thought homeschooling would cost me my friendships, but in a weird way it has. We have just drifted apart now because my life is so different, my priorities are so different. OTOH, I have lots of great new friends that I have met through homeschooling, so I feel enriched by that. You'll just have to accept that being a homeschooler makes you "different" and some people can't understand you anymore.:grouphug:

[dhudson]

I usually state that this is the decision that we feel that God has led us too. We got this more in the early years. Now that my kids are older and are doing very well I hear, " I can really see the benefits of home schooling now".

 

You can always just state that this conversation is uncomfortable because this is a decision that you, as parents have come to with much thought and research and you feel that it is the best option for your children and it feels like they are questioning what is best for your children. You can then state that if they have further questions, you are more than happy to answer them but Homeschooling your children is not a debatable topic.

[Rosy]

"Hey, I appreciate your concern about my educational choices. I'm sure it's because you care so much about my family. I am really happy that we're homeschooling and hope that you can at some point be happy for me. But for the time being, I think it's best if we don't talk about it anymore. I don't feel that I can explain my decision any more clearly than I have, and I think we agree to respect each other's decisions. I would hate for a disagreement about schooling to come between us."

 

If she persists (other than to clarify your position), she is not being a friend.

[Impish]

"Please do me the kindness of not questioning my parenting choices, the same way I've done for you."

[LibraryLover]

Is she argumentative about it or just curious? Is she rather thick-headed, in general? Is this the only communication problem you have? Could you just nicely say that you don't want to talk about hsing? Are you getting anything else out of the relationship? If so, can you refocus on that?

[....]

I actually ended up "corrupting" our friends. They are currently homeschooling. :D

[In the Rain]

"I'll let you know if anything changes on the education front. Meanwhile let's talk about (something else)."

 

This sounds like a nice, friendly response.

[mrsanniep]

Thanks, ladies!

 

My friend isn't belligerent or condescending to my face. She just talks about my homeschooling like it's a temporary thing all the time and not something we'll be doing with all our children. She has referred to it as "a bubble," which bothers me a bit. It's just cluelessness on her part, I know, and nothing malicious. But it gets annoying having to be tactful when other people don't seem to return the favor.

[GaHadley]

it's funny that people who think that homeschooling is "great" can't imagine that you'll do it all the way through. . .

 

I was at a supper club with a group of ladies - 2 public school teachers, 1 private school board member, 2 public school moms, and 1 private school mom. The conversation all night revolved around the behavior problems, the bullies, the costs, etc., etc. Then someone said something about the fact that I homeschool and they all think that *I'm* the crazy one! Seriously, I wanted to rewind and let them listen to the list of negative things they'd been talking about for the prior hour!

 

My SIL thinks that it's perfectly unnatural that we are homeschooling. . .

 

Thankfully my dh doesn't allow our choices to be a topic of conversation. When it cam time for dd to start school, and they started asking where we were sending her, that was the first they knew we were going to homeschool even though we'd known for years!

 

I don't know how to handle it when it's said in a nice, innocent way. . . may be you'l do like pp and corrupt them to the other side :lol:

[SonshineLearner]

How bout... "Home Educating is what we're doing till the kids go to College"... it's "Part of them living here... kinda like eating, sleeping, and all of our other activities....". I plan to homeschool my son forever... but how long is forever? :-) Sometimes... that's next week... and sometimes... it's till he's ready for private school.... (private 2nd grade... or private college? :-)

 

I think many times it's just a friend trying to have "conversation starter" :-)

Carrie

[pqr]

HSing is a threat to many non-HSers and my choices are in fact a condemnation of their choices. There is simply no way around it. We HS because PSs are such a failure that there is no way I would subject my children to them. If I honestly explain my reasons to my friends the unspoken comment is "Why don't you HS?" If I lie and provide a more vanilla reason that does betray a friendship.

 

My friends know why I HS and that, while I respect their right to send their children to the local school (and sometimes understand the necessity to do so), I do not respect their decision. This costs friends.

Edited January 4, 2010 by pqr

[lisabees]

I am both - a homeschooler and a public schooler! I happen to be a very outgoing, curious person, who asks her friends a lot of questions about their lives, whether it be my Mormon friends or a working mom or a depressed friend or a gay friend. Not judging - just absolutely curious to understand their lives and what makes them who they are. I love broadening my horizons - makes me much more tolerant and understanding as a human being. So...being on both side of the fence, I understand you and your friends' position.

 

What I would say? I would say that before you homeschooled, you had certain preconceived ideas of who homeschoolers are and what homeschooling would be like. Explain how that has changed. And validate her choice, too. She needs affirmation that public school is fine, too, if that is what she chooses (because it really has wonderful aspects about it, believe it or not). Tell her the things that may appeal to you about ps. My best ammunition is being open and honest. And a good sense of humor sure helps, too. Ask her, "You really don't think I can go all the way, do you? We should make some sort of bet!" or "You know, one day, I'm going to convince you to homeschool too!" Invite her to spend the day homeschooling with you.

 

I am glad she is not being malicious. Remember, we all question the unknown. We all would like to think our decisions are the best.

[Joanne]

If it is making you uncomfortable, it's hurting the relationship and I'd find a kind but direct way of addressing it.

 

"Dear friend, your comments about the "bubble" of my homeschooling and your questions about Kindergarten are making me uncomfortable. I've chosen a different educational setting for my kids. Let's talk about other things, ok?"

 

Although this doesn't help you *now*, I have noticed that the gap closes (for me at least) rather than widens when the kids get older. Choices of food, recreation, media, entertainment and education are less......defining? less passionate? when kids are older than when they are in the early years.

[pqr]

And validate her choice, too. She needs affirmation that public school is fine, too, if that is what she chooses (because it really has wonderful aspects about it, believe it or not). Tell her the things that may appeal to you about ps.

 

Only say that if you believe it. If I said that it would be a lie.

 

Why do people need affirmation if you believe that they are wrong? What is more important telling the truth or coddling someone?

 

I would lose a friend rather than lie to them about something of this importance. The reason being if I did lie (on something of this importance) not only would it be wrong, but a friend would see through it and learn to distrust me.

 

I avoid the topic by saying that there is the potential for great hurt and sadness if we discuss opinions on HS vs PS and I value the friendship far too much to go down that road. If a friend continues to ask then there is a tacit agreement that we will be frank and not (hopefully) damage our friendship, but I would NEVER validate a decision to subject a child to today's PS. I may undersrtand the necessity but that is not validation.

[RegGuheert]

HSing is a threat to many non-HSers and my choices are in fact a condemnation of their choices. There is simply no way around it. We HS because PSs are such a failure that there is no way I would subject my children to them. If I honestly explain my reasons to my friends the unspoken comment is "Why don't you HS?" If I lie and provide a more vanilla reason that does betray a friendship.

 

My friends know why I HS and that, while I respect their right to send their children to the local school (and sometimes understand the necessity to do so), I do not respect their decision. This costs friends.

:iagree:

 

Wow! That is very well said! IMO, therein lies the real problem.

 

If I were the OP, I would be inclined to say something along the lines of: "When we are together, you have a tendency to ask me questions about homeschooling that imply that homeschooling is somehow inferior to the schooling approach which you have chosen for your children. I do not believe this to be true, but I respect your decision enough to not ask you similar questions about your choice of schooling. Would you appreciate it if I did that every time we got together? If not, then please do not continue to do this. OTOH, if you are truly interested in investigating homeschooling for your family, I'd be happy to..."

 

Best wishes for this relationship regardless of which approach you choose.

[Hedgehogs4]

i sincerely find that i have no time to spare for friends irl who are not part of my hsing circles. so yes, i guess i have drifted away from those people. my full-time job is educating my children and running my home. someone who doesn't understand that probably doesn't hold a lot of friendship potential imo.

[Punks in Ontario]

I just don't bring up schooling as a rule unless someone asks specific questions. It doesn't seem worth causing friction, and most non homeschooling people just don't get it.

 

Then again, I don't like to talk homeschooling too much with my homeschooling friends either. Some shop talk can be helpful, but sometimes it's too much esp. when we all do it differently. I also don't like opportunities to compare our kids esp. since mine are generally ahead of their peers. There's lots of other common ground.

[lisabees]

Only say that if you believe it. If I said that it would be a lie.

 

Why do people need affirmation if you believe that they are wrong? What is more important telling the truth or coddling someone?

 

.

 

I wrote what I would say. And MY truth isn't the same as anyone else's.

 

I am just not a confrontational person. I have strong views about certain things and stand up for them every day in what I do. But, I also feel strongly, that everyone comes to their own decisions based on their personalities, histories and baggage. Only if I walked in your shoes would I understand your absolute certainty that children should never be subjected to public school. Maybe you had a terrible experience in ps. Maybe you have never gone at all. Maybe you've witnessed something unthinkable that happened to your dc in ps.

 

It must be my age. ;) I just don't presume to know what is best for other people. The older I get, I judge others less and less. I'm becoming a softie! I love having all kinds of friends. I am way too boring to have them all think like me! :lol:

[Laurie4b]

:iagree:

 

Wow! That is very well said! IMO, therein lies the real problem.

 

If I were the OP, I would be inclined to say something along the lines of: "When we are together, you have a tendency to ask me questions about homeschooling that imply that homeschooling is somehow inferior to the schooling approach which you have chosen for your children. I do not believe this to be true, but I respect your decision enough to not ask you similar questions about your choice of schooling. Would you appreciate it if I did that every time we got together? If not, then please do not continue to do this. OTOH, if you are truly interested in investigating homeschooling for your family, I'd be happy to..."

 

Best wishes for this relationship regardless of which approach you choose.

 

This is essentially what I would do. Forget the bean dip or hinting around and just be direct.

[kalanamak]

 

I have several lovely friends who can't seem to get it through their heads that we're homeschooling for the long-term. They are constantly asking what my plans are for our youngest, who starts Kindergarten next year.

 

Any advice? Words of encouragement?

 

They are trying to make small talk. Many people who have kids small talk about kids. Ask about their kids and give them a chance to talk about basketball practice.

[LibraryLover]

They are trying to make small talk. Many people who have kids small talk about kids. Ask about their kids and give them a chance to talk about basketball practice.

 

 

Oh, I so agree! There is fequently some poor person with kids in first grade ath the town soccer field trying to make small talk and conversation with a person who says they don't send their kids to school. Sometimes the hsing listener is thinking it's a quiz or inquisition. But really, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I have been hsing since 2000 and I find most people really great. Perhaps curious , and not up on current PC hsing language, but the majority are not malicious.

 

This summer a woman at sailing camp said to me "That's so wonderful! They grow so fast and you get to spend so much time with your children". Her dd was a delightful & smart little thing and so our dds became friends. The had a lot in common, but one was hs'd and one attended a school.

[kelouis75]

 

This summer a woman at sailing camp said to me "That's so wonderful! They grow so fast and you get to spend so much time with your children". Her dd was a delightful & smart little thing and so our dds became friends. The had a lot in common, but one was hs'd and one attended a school.

 

This comment reflects my general experience as well... Some say things like: "I don't know how you do it... I don't think I could handle my own children" :confused:

 

 

But for the most part people are really cool about it...:chillpill: Maybe I'm in a HS friendly state...:)

 

The only one who gives me a hard time is my mom. She and my aunt are veteran PS teachers... Our choice to HS takes the wind out of her sails a bit I think...

Edited January 5, 2010 by kelouis75
to add

[IsabelC]

I never thought homeschooling would cost me my friendships, but in a weird way it has. We have just drifted apart now because my life is so different, my priorities are so different.

I have found the same thing. I had a close friend from my school days whom I remained close to despite living in different states for some years. When we both had children we agreed that we would never let any difference in parenting styles come between us, and it didn't, for a while. But as soon as her kids started school, it all changed. It was as though she had moved into another world, the world of school mothers. Or as if she had moved on to the next stage in life while I stayed stuck in this one. Suddenly all her friends are mothers of her kids class mates. She's always busy with school canteen duty, mothers help or fundraising. She goes to non kid friendly placed for lunch while the kids are at school. We barely ever see them, because school days are too busy (so much for home schooling taking up heaps of time) and weekends are for sport or family catch up time.

 

HSing is a threat to many non-HSers and my choices are in fact a condemnation of their choices. There is simply no way around it. We HS because PSs are such a failure that there is no way I would subject my children to them. If I honestly explain my reasons to my friends the unspoken comment is "Why don't you HS?"

Yep, for sure. That's why conversations about hs so often end with the other person saying "Oh I'd love to home school, only I couldn't do it / I couldn't afford not to work / my kids love their school." It took me a while to figure this out, I always used to think "Hang on, I didn't ask you to justify your decision not to home school!"

[mrsanniep]

Thanks for weighing in, ladies.

 

I'm sure it's just harmless small talk on my friend's part. I realize homeschooling is strange to many people and I'm usually cool with the whole circus freak show aspect it takes on with many of my friends. It just gets old - especially with GOOD friends, you know? - and I wondered how others handled it.

 

Thanks to this thread, I now have several wonderful ideas and approaches to take next time friends bring up homeschooling. Wish me luck!

[G5052]

The number of homeschooling friends who truly go the distance to the end of high school will be far less than you expect. It really started dropping off around 5th-6th grade, and now it's a flood. I was on the board of a homeschooling group, and I'm one of only three of that group of women who did one thing or another on the board for a number of years that have gone the distance to the point of thinking about high school credits for a mom-generated transcript.

 

So you either learn to respect each other's educational choices, or you don't maintain the friendship. Today's homeschooling mom friend may have her kids in public school next year. You really don't know.

[Peela]

My close girlfriends were very skeptical and certianly didnt share my enthusiasm. They also didn't understand how I could give up my weekly time with them, and other social engagements, and work, in order to homeschool.

However....years later, I generally only get respect from people who have known me for a long time. They see the kids and they see the difference. They know my committment.

Your friends will change over time as they see your committment and they see your kids. As long as they don't become too jealous, they will come around.

Meanwhile, I would just be really confident to your friends, and kind of brush off their concerns. I learned to be bright and enthusiastic and not share any concerns with people who were already concerned.

[pqr]

Originally Posted by pqr

Only say that if you believe it. If I said that it would be a lie.

 

Why do people need affirmation if you believe that they are wrong? What is more important telling the truth or coddling someone?

 

 

 

I wrote what I would say. And MY truth isn't the same as anyone else's.

 

I am just not a confrontational person. I have strong views about certain things and stand up for them every day in what I do. But, I also feel strongly, that everyone comes to their own decisions based on their personalities, histories and baggage. Only if I walked in your shoes would I understand your absolute certainty that children should never be subjected to public school. Maybe you had a terrible experience in ps. Maybe you have never gone at all. Maybe you've witnessed something unthinkable that happened to your dc in ps.

 

It must be my age. ;) I just don't presume to know what is best for other people. The older I get, I judge others less and less. I'm becoming a softie! I love having all kinds of friends. I am way too boring to have them all think like me! :lol:

 

I do not see your issue here and yes you are being confrontational, but there is nothing wrong with that. I never said not to say what you would have said I simply said only to say that if the OP believes it. I continued with what I believe and used the word I several times. These are MY truths and they aren't the same as everyone else's.

As to my PS experience, I had a fairly normal one, but then again I went to a PS when for some of, but not all, my time there they actually taught. I also went to Private Schools and was HSed so have seen the entire spectrum.

It must be my age. I just don't have tolerance for coddling and speaking around issues. The older I get the less I play word games. I'm becoming more of a straight shooter. I like intelligent honest straight forward friends, they do not have to agree with me (many do not) but they have to be honest. I am way too busy to have friends who won't tell me the truth.

There is an ability to remain polite and inoffensive, which is why I stated that when faced with this situation I try to "avoid the topic by saying that there is the potential for great hurt and sadness if we discuss opinions on HS vs PS and I value the friendship far too much to go down that road."

Please tell me why would a friend need affirmation of a decision to PS any more than I would need it because I HS? If said friend is so weak in her convictions about sending a child to PS that she needs the affirmation of a HSing parent then …..well I need not say more.

[Garga]

I have found the same thing. I had a close friend from my school days whom I remained close to despite living in different states for some years. When we both had children we agreed that we would never let any difference in parenting styles come between us, and it didn't, for a while. But as soon as her kids started school, it all changed. It was as though she had moved into another world, the world of school mothers. Or as if she had moved on to the next stage in life while I stayed stuck in this one. Suddenly all her friends are mothers of her kids class mates. She's always busy with school canteen duty, mothers help or fundraising. She goes to non kid friendly placed for lunch while the kids are at school. We barely ever see them, because school days are too busy (so much for home schooling taking up heaps of time) and weekends are for sport or family catch up time.

 

 

While I sense your regret at the distance in your friendship, don't you see that she's just as involved in her children's education as you are in yours?

 

You two might have more in common than you realize. You're both very active in your children's lives.

 

Unfortunately, since you've chosen different ways to educate, you are outside of each other's circles now. If your friendship can weather this, you might be able to be closer friends again on the other side of education, when you're both older and the kids have flown the nest.

[Rosy]

HSing is a threat to many non-HSers and my choices are in fact a condemnation of their choices. There is simply no way around it. We HS because PSs are such a failure that there is no way I would subject my children to them. If I honestly explain my reasons to my friends the unspoken comment is "Why don't you HS?" If I lie and provide a more vanilla reason that does betray a friendship.

 

My friends know why I HS and that, while I respect their right to send their children to the local school (and sometimes understand the necessity to do so), I do not respect their decision. This costs friends.

 

If that's truly what you believe, that's fine...but we have to understand that there are people who are equally passionate about public schools (or private schools, for that matter), and in some cases for good reason. Being dogmatic comes with consequences, no matter which form of education you embrace. I have a lot of friends who are great parents AND send their kids to public school...and who, for the most part, either are fine with my decisions or keep their opinions to themselves, or may ask questions that aren't intended to be threatening.

 

Then again, I don't "not respect their decision" to public school. Maybe that's where the difference lies.

[IsabelC]

I heartily agree that more respect from both sides would be a good thing. Come to that, it would be a good thing if we didn't even have sides, since we are all presumably doing our best to raise our children as well as we can. However, while we are talking about respecting choices, the reality is that most parents do not make a choice to send their kids to school. They just do it, because that's what everyone does. I would estimate that at least 90% of school parents have never considered home schooling as an option - in fact some people don't even realize it's legal - and at least 5% more might have thought about it briefly but not really investigated it properly. Now, if you look at home schoolers, how many made the decision without even considering other options? Very few. Of course there are exceptions. Plenty of people looked very carefully at all options and saw that conventional schooling would be the best choice for them and their children. But overall, it's safe to say that a far greater percentage of homeschoolers have made a truly informed decision. I try to respect all people, but I have more respect for an informed choice than I have for a default choice.

[pqr]

Originally Posted by pqr

 

 

As to my PS experience, I had a fairly normal one, but then again I went to a PS when for some of, but not all, my time there they actually taught. I also went to Private Schools and was HSed so have seen the entire spectrum.

 

 

I thought about this statement and do need to modify it. The more I think about this the more I realize that I did have a fairly normal PS experience, they taught me virtually nothing, (compared to my HS or even private school experience). I was close to being a straight A student but I did not actually learn much. Were it not for private schools, after schooling and HSing I would not have received I have today.

Edited January 7, 2010 by pqr