Wow! I feel really loved (read with sarcasm)

[joannqn]

There's no way to tell to adequately tell this story and keep it short...

 

I didn't think very highly of my mother to begin with (LONG story) but then she went and married this vile man. She didn't attend my wedding, send a gift or even a card, or anything. Found out years later that it was because his (and now her) religion forbid them to set foot in a church other than their own. Over the next few years, I figured out he wasn't a nice man. My grandmother didn't speak highly of him. He was abusive to me via email after literally every phone conversation I had with my mother. Then my grandmother had a stroke/heart attack and I went down with my first child (then 2 months old) to see my grandmother before she died. I was shocked to see my mother acting like a stepford wife that she never was with my dad. I was shocked to see just how high-and-mighty, know-it-all, jerk he was. While I was visiting, I got to see him rage about his landlord raising their rent after they broke their lease; he said the landlord had no right when the lease clearly stated it was for 2 people living in the home, but they had four people there and she found out. We actually got into a big fight while I was there. I return home HATING the man my mother married. Phone calls between us remained infrequent and after each one, I receive an email from him telling me what a rotten person I was. Each and every time, I had committed some grievous sin against him even though all I did was ask to speak to my mom and talk to her about the kids and stuff. Occasionally, out of the blue, he would send me pictures of his much younger self...of when he was a body builder...pictures of him in bodybuilding poses in his speedo. Finally, I had had enough and I laid down my boundaries. 1) I'm calling to talk to you, not him. Do not give him the phone when I call you. 2) I'm calling to talk to you, not him. Do not repeat to me what he is telling you to tell me. 3) I am not to receive abusive email from him anymore or I'll have to cut contact. Five minutes later, I receive a scathing email from him telling me I'm scum of the earth. I blocked their email addresses. A couple weeks later, I receive a letter from my mother telling me I'm scum of the earth. A couple of years go by and I get a call from my mom. She tells me she's calling me from her cell phone. I get the impression that she's avoiding using her home phone to call me. Other than that, she's acting like nothing ever happened.

 

Fast forward. I haven't heard from my mom in about two years. When Madelynn was born, I tried to call and tell her. Her home phone, the only number I have for her, is disconnected. I emailed her the news to the last three email addresses I have for her (he changes their ISP and email often). They don't bounce but I don't get a reply either. I don't know if the address I have is current. They live in a trailer park and had moved at least once; I don't know if I have the first address, the second address, or if they are at a totally different address.

 

Today, I get an email from my mom. It reads:

This is how we as Jehovah's Witnesess treat one another when we meet. No matter who we are or race. Or where we are from, Rich or poor. Mom Luv Ya

 

Attached is a forwarded email containing a link to a slide show of the 2009 Seoul International Watchtower Convention.

 

Gee, mom!

 

It's been so long since I've talk to you. We've been doing ok. We've been struggling financially for a year now. We lost a baby last year. Madelynn was born this year, and she's doing okay now that we know what was ailing her. It was so great of you to ask how we were. How's life been treating you?

 

But really, how do I respond to such an email? I don't even know how I'm suppose to take it, or if it is coming from him or her (they both have equally horrible spelling, grammar, and typing skills so I can't tell from that).

 

 

ETA: Copied and pasted email and ended up with all the funky html stuff in the quote...fixed it.

Edited December 2, 2009 by joannqn

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug: I think my response would be "Huh?"

 

More :grouphug:

 

Rosie

[Mama Bear]

My dear friend had her husband admitted to the hospital in grave condition, with a 50/50 chance of survival as of Friday morning. She got a hold of her mom early that afternoon to explain the situation and her mother interrupted her to tell her about the place they'd just been for lunch. :001_huh:

 

Clueless appears to happen to lots of mothers. My friend and I have discussed that the only control we have over any of the assorted looney interactions with various relatives is to takes notes on how we want to be, how we want to have relationships with our own kids/in-laws-to-be/grandchildren, and remember that the object lessons can help us keep on track for that.

 

I'm so sorry.

 

:grouphug:

[tex-mex]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Sorry to hear of this... family can be a huge pain in the butt, huh? :glare:

(((HUGS)))

[jld]

I'm so sorry, Joann. You were so smart to set firm boundaries. I'm sorry for your mom, but she is choosing to live her life that way. I'm just so glad you are not enmeshed in all of her troubles.

[Shelly in IL]

Poor relationships with mothers just stink.

[ChristusG]

Wow. Yeah, that is ummm....rude and inconsiderate. I think I'd have to hit the reply button and just put one word in my email...."Huh????"

[FO4UR]

I wouldn't respond.

[katemary63]

Wow, that is something else. This is what I have had to do. I have set the understanding in my mind that this person is not my mother. She does not serve any of the functions of a mother and she hurts me in ways a mother would never do. Therefore, for all practical purposes, she is not my mother. I do not think of her in that way at all.

 

Then, over time, I sought out other relationships with ladies in my church that filled the void having no mother would leave. But more importantly, I listened to what God has to say about it. HE desires to meet all our needs including the need we have for a mother figure. My favorite verse that speeks to this is Isaiah 66:13 "As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you." I let God comfort me every time I have the need of a mother. I even sometimes pray, "God, you are my mother, please comfort me now and be with me as a mother would."

 

After I understood all this, I was able to re-establish a relationship with my mom that didn't hurt. I can accept the good and interesting things about her, without having any expectations what so ever that she fill the role in my life that a mother would fill. She can not hurt me or leave me feeling lonely or abandoned. She is what she is and it is okay with me. And now, when she does something that....um...boggles my mind.....I can say, "Hmmmm, that's okay, I have the perfect mother." and just feel empathy for her. I sure wouldn't want to be her or like her. It makes me feel bad for her....but not me.

 

I am not saying this is easy. It takes awhile. But it has worked for me. In addition though, I would never tollerate abuse or abusive language. In that case, I would not engage with the person at all, so I'm not saying to put up with that.

[joannqn]

Well, I replied. I tried for something honest but not too scathing. I'm sure they will either disown me for another couple of years or tell me what a rotten sinner I am. I think it would be easier if she just completely disappeared for good.

[Jennifer in MI]

:grouphug: No advice. Just a huge hug. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[MariannNOVA]

:grouphug: No advice. Just a huge hug. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

:iagree:and :grouphug:

[Tammyla]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

Do you understand how she feels? Could you state it in a paragraph?

 

I think, BTW, that she is completely and terribly wrong. I don't blame you for being upset or cutting her off. I am so sorry that she is treating you the way she is, and further, that she is married to the man she married.

 

Having said that, I think I understand her. She's wrong but here's what I think she thinks. I think she loves you, deep down inside. I think she would like to be in a relationship with you. I think that her faith has convinced her that she has no choice but to relate to you in the way that she is. I think that she thinks that the one most important thing for you to do is to join her faith; that that is the truly loving message that she has. I think that to her this is an emergency, akin to seeing someone about to walk off a cliff, and that she is trying to act on that as much as she can, without going against her H too much.

 

That does not justify her actions or her behavior, but it does put some light on it.

 

My mom did something similar to me when I was pregnant with my DD. I don't excuse her, but I have found it helpful to try to understand her priorities, if only so that I can clarify for myself how different mine are.

 

Make no mistake, your mom is wrong. I'm so sorry.

[asta]

D

Having said that, I think I understand her. She's wrong but here's what I think she thinks. I think she loves you, deep down inside. I think she would like to be in a relationship with you. I think that her faith has convinced her that she has no choice but to relate to you in the way that she is. I think that she thinks that the one most important thing for you to do is to join her faith; that that is the truly loving message that she has. I think that to her this is an emergency, akin to seeing someone about to walk off a cliff, and that she is trying to act on that as much as she can, without going against her H too much.

 

 

Nah, I don't think so.

 

I have a sister who treats me this way. It isn't faith oriented. She is just angry inside.

 

I've read many,many times that depression is anger turned inwards. I think my sister is depressed and has chosen me as a convenient target.

 

I have chosen to cease dealing with her until she is no longer so angry. It's a bummer, as I adore her husband and kids. We all do - no one in the family is quite sure what to do at this point.

 

 

a

[joannqn]

I'm kind of surprised. I actually got a reply, and I can tell it was from my mother and not him. He has never sent me an email that wasn't either reaming me in some way or containing a photo of his younger self.

 

I wrote:

Huh?

 

I don't hear from you for two years. You change your phone number. You change your email address. And this is what you send after two years of no contact? Did it ever occur to your to show at least some interest in the lives of your daughter and grandchildren? Would it be too difficult to ask how we've been? What's happened over the past two years? It is unfortunate that your religion doesn't teach you how to treat your own children with at least equal regard to how you treat strangers.

 

Since you obviously don't care about us, I won't bore you with the details of our lives.

 

 

 

It was the nicest reply I could come up with while still expressing my feelings.

 

 

Her reply:

 

 

Sorry But we have been very busy. It's not that I have foregotten you all. And I did not know it has been two yrs. You would be suprise just, how much study, meetting, conventions, we have. It's just not going to church on sunday. So I desreve to be bored. tell me how has everyone has been. I have not foregotten what you are to me. But sometime all our lives, Are full. That's call having a life of your own. Your Mom Who lu u.

[gardening momma]

My parents certainly have a life of their own now that all of us have moved out, married and had kids, but their lives still include us!

[Blueridge]

Has she always written that way? Is it possible that she is taking some pretty heavy medications and has become forgetful and disconnected with everything? I am so sorry you are going through this. I mean no disrespect to the JW religion, but years ago my bil joined that kind of church. He changed so completely that it was frightening. Things happened later that made him leave it, and he now says that he was 'brainwashed'.

[Impish]

Interesting. Its all about her, isn't it? What she's doing, what she deserves.

 

Sorry, but you notice if you go two years without talking to someone. If they're important, anyways.

 

I go a few DAYS without talking to SpecialMama, and Wolf's asking if everything is ok. I mean, when my husband notices my friendships, realizing you haven't talked to your kid in two years....:glare:

[Sputterduck]

1. He sounds very abusive.

 

2. Though I make no apologies for JWs, I can say that they are not counseled to abandon their nonJW children and they are not told they cannot attend their child's own wedding in a non-JW church. Those things they did are beyond what their religion is asking of them.

 

3. While being told to not abandon you, they are told to not be unevenly yoked. A JW can never be as close to someone who is not a JW as they would be if the same person was a JW. There is a gap there that really can't be closed.

 

4. You need a mom. Your mom isn't available for the job. :( You have a chance at a mother-child relationship with your own children, even though you can't have one with your own mother. Mourn what you cannot have with her, and then enjoy the fact that you can have it with your children. Stop trying for what you can't have. Try to be a peace with it. That's hard to do, but being at peace is better than trying over and over just to have your heart broken again.

 

I feel for you. I really do. I was on your mother's end of things for years and years, walking away from friends and family in an effort to be evenly yoked, married to an abusive man. I would never have abandoned my child, though.

[Critter]

It's too bad that these sorts of family issues usually seem to come up during the holiday season. I have a bully for a brother that is not on speaking terms with me right now. It's a long history. To top it off, we live across the road from each other, because we have been known to get along famously in the past and thought it would be fun to be so close. I throw that in as a joke, although it doesn't seem very funny at the moment. My mother informed me that if we couldn't get along and wouldn't be together for the holidays, then she would not attend either of our family gatherings. Ever. My response was, "So, you're telling me that if I won't put up with being bullied and called names and the rest of my family being bullied too, then you won't have holiday dinners with me? I can live with that." I will miss her being there, but not as much as I would miss my peace of mind and dignity. I'm surprised at how relieved my kids were that he would not be present at our holiday celebrations. It makes me think that I should have done this long ago, that I wasn't the only one suffering. Something to think about when you are contemplating how guilty to feel for holding your mother and stepfather at arms length.

[Alicia64]

Joanne,

 

I just wanted to say how sorry I am. It helped me a lot when I put 2 and 2 together and realized that my parents totally fit the description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 

Or a better name for it: the Me! Me! Me! Disorder. People disagree on this, but many think that people with this serious personality disorder can't really love the way you and I do. That's why it's so easy for them to emotionally or physically abandon their own child.

 

It's awful to be the child of a such a person. I really am so, so sorry. In a sense, if you have a parent or parents like this, you don't really have parents.

 

Alley

[Denisemomof4]

1. He sounds very abusive.

 

2. Though I make no apologies for JWs, I can say that they are not counseled to abandon their nonJW children and they are not told they cannot attend their child's own wedding in a non-JW church. Those things they did are beyond what their religion is asking of them.

 

3. While being told to not abandon you, they are told to not be unevenly yoked. A JW can never be as close to someone who is not a JW as they would be if the same person was a JW. There is a gap there that really can't be closed.

 

4. You need a mom. Your mom isn't available for the job. :( You have a chance at a mother-child relationship with your own children, even though you can't have one with your own mother. Mourn what you cannot have with her, and then enjoy the fact that you can have it with your children. Stop trying for what you can't have. Try to be a peace with it. That's hard to do, but being at peace is better than trying over and over just to have your heart broken again.

 

I feel for you. I really do. I was on your mother's end of things for years and years, walking away from friends and family in an effort to be evenly yoked, married to an abusive man. I would never have abandoned my child, though.

 

:iagree:

 

as I read your posts, I was wondering, too, if your mother is being abused. It certainly sounds like at the least her husband is verbally abusing her and isolating her from anyone he chooses to isolate he from.

 

I agree that you need to accept your mother and your relationship with her right where it is. If you cam ever have any meaningful relationship with her, you're going to have to let go of all your ideals. I had to do this with my mother, and I was so deeply blessed when our relationship deepened with my own boundaries. I grew so close to my mother and got to enjoy a wonderful relationshp with her for 10 years before she died. I do hope that you can have this one day, or at least have peace with it all.

 

I'm really sorry!!!

[Sputterduck]

Concerning the reply she gave you, it's just excuses.

 

JWs have 3 meetings a week and a handful of convention stuff every year, plus time out in service. None of that in any way keeps her so busy she can't call you. Period. Busyness is an excuse.

 

Personally, I would write her back offering shelter if she ever decides she is in an abusive relationship and expect nothing else and put no more effort into it. I'd feel obligated to let her know there is a way out from her husband, but beyond that the healthiest route is probably just to let it go.

[Scarlett]

Concerning the reply she gave you, it's just excuses.

 

JWs have 3 meetings a week

 

2 now. ;)

 

Making your point even more....My brother is not JW and I find plenty of time to see him. Our life isn't like that abusive husband of hers is trying to paint it.

[Sputterduck]

2 now. ;)

 

Making your point even more....My brother is not JW and I find plenty of time to see him. Our life isn't like that abusive husband of hers is trying to paint it.

 

Wait! What? When did that change? Which one did they drop?

[Scarlett]

Wait! What? When did that change? Which one did they drop?

 

A year ago. Combined the two mid weeks into one.

[Sputterduck]

A year ago. Combined the two mid weeks into one.

 

Is the new meeting held at someone's house or the Kingdom Hall? I guess it would have to be the Kingdom Hall if they kept the purpose of both meetings.

[WTMCassandra]

Your mom wrote "Sorry But we have been very busy. It's not that I have foregotten you all. And I did not know it has been two yrs. You would be suprise just, how much study, meetting, conventions, we have. It's just not going to church on sunday. So I desreve to be bored. tell me how has everyone has been. I have not foregotten what you are to me. But sometime all our lives, Are full. That's call having a life of your own. Your Mom Who lu u."

 

Wow.

 

Just for fun, I'd like to dissect this a bit.

 

1. She didn't know it had been two years? Riiiiiight. And how special that it's right after saying she hasn't forgotten you.

2. You would be surprised at how busy her religion keeps her. You are clearly inferior in her priorities to her religion and you should feel guilty for expecting any crumbs of attention. You are scum.

3. "So I deserve to be bored." She's implying that you have demanded that she do nothing but sit around and talk to you. This is the first instance of her blaming you for being upset about the level of communication. A neat trick.

4. She hasn't forgotten you (oh, how comforting it is to see this repeated--NOT), but her life is full? Ummm, full means no room left. Again, you are clearly inferior in her priorities for ANY portion of her life now, AND you should feel guilty for expecting any crumbs of attention. You are scum.

5. "That's called having a life of your own." Riiiiiiight. So now she's accusing you of saying she's supposed to have no life apart from you. And you should feel guilty, guilty of this heinous crime. Again, she is blaming you for being upset about the level of communication--you're the one who's actually at fault, not her. Sigh.

 

Fear

Obligation

Guilt

 

FOG. This letter is full of FOG.

 

(((((Joanne)))))

 

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. She is wrong and you are absolutely right to limit contact for your own sanity. She has NOT been there for you in the loss of a child and the gain of another. She has torn up her mom card, seeing this letter in the context of what has happened over time.

Edited December 3, 2009 by WTMCassandra

[Lovedtodeath]

Joanne, I know someone much like this. They have sent us running from the Witnesses more than once. It is a terrible example to have the wrong priorities. I have learned that there are people like this everywhere, in all denominations, and that there were many problems in the congregations in the scriptures, so I don't let a few people with failings chase me away anymore. I am convinced that God is supporting these people as a whole, just as he did the congregations in the Bible.

 

I think you got some good replies from Sputterduck and Carol in CA. We don't know her circumstances, or yours, as for the idea of being unevenly yoked having anything to do with it.

 

I know that I tend to become reclusive when I am depressed, and lose touch with some people, but two years, in a mother-daughter relationship is not acceptable, especially with the hard times that you have been through. I am sorry that she has hurt you.:grouphug:

Is the new meeting held at someone's house or the Kingdom Hall? I guess it would have to be the Kingdom Hall if they kept the purpose of both meetings.

The meetings with a small group in a home are no longer being held. We are encouraged to make that night set aside for family or personal study. It seems too many were putting emphasis on one area of worship and neglecting the rest. The one combined meeting is the same length as it was before, without the Bible study added. Edited December 3, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[joannqn]

Has she always written that way? Is it possible that she is taking some pretty heavy medications and has become forgetful and disconnected with everything?

 

No, she's not on any medications. She's always been that way.

 

There is a genetic disorder in my family, called Fragile X Syndrome, that causes mental delays. Girls are usually carriers, passing it on to their sons. Rarely, girls can be affected by it too, though no where near as bad as boys usually are. I suspect she's one of the girls who have delays caused by it. I'd place her on the scale of functional but lower intelligence. She can hold a job, run a household, balance a checkbook, etc. However, she has very poor language arts skills and is easily taken advantage of. I feel that while she has a lower intelligence, she is capable of making her own decisions...she just makes consistently selfish ones.

[jazzyfizzle]

I'm kind of surprised. I actually got a reply, and I can tell it was from my mother and not him. He has never sent me an email that wasn't either reaming me in some way or containing a photo of his younger self.

 

I wrote:

 

 

It was the nicest reply I could come up with while still expressing my feelings.

 

 

Her reply:

 

Wow

Wanted to add my :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

 

 

My mother and sister have very much the same situation, the whole thing is just so far out there, it is crazy.

[Sahamamama]

Joann,

 

In my life before children, I was a family counselor (ironic, isn't it?). In all those years, I realized that the Mother Void is the most powerful force on the planet, except Accepting Forgiveness. The hardest thing for a child, teen, or adult to realize is this:

 

 

 

Your mother is not now, nor will she EVER BE, the mother that you need her to be.

 

For many, many people, this is the source of pain for a lifetime. The only thing I have EVER seen work to take away the power of the Mother Void is Accepting Forgiveness. This means that you come to terms with the above statement, and let go of EVER wanting/expecting your mother to love you.

 

I know you NEED her to, but I also know that it's never going to happen. Joann, I sincerely hope that this helps you in some way. :grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

Joann,

 

In my life before children, I was a family counselor (ironic, isn't it?). In all those years, I realized that the Mother Void is the most powerful force on the planet, except Accepting Forgiveness. The hardest thing for a child, teen, or adult to realize is this:

Your mother is not now, nor will she EVER BE, the mother that you need her to be.

I know you NEED her to, but I also know that it's never going to happen. Joann, I sincerely hope that this helps you in some way. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: My sister has this particular issue with our mother, but surprisingly, life delivered not one, but two replacements. Have a look around. There might be a nice older lady around who'd be happy to fill your gap. Women miss having the right kind of mother, and many women miss having a daughter.

 

 

Rosie

[asta]

Joann,

 

In my life before children, I was a family counselor (ironic, isn't it?). In all those years, I realized that the Mother Void is the most powerful force on the planet, except Accepting Forgiveness. The hardest thing for a child, teen, or adult to realize is this:

 

Your mother is not now, nor will she EVER BE, the mother that you need her to be.

For many, many people, this is the source of pain for a lifetime. The only thing I have EVER seen work to take away the power of the Mother Void is Accepting Forgiveness. This means that you come to terms with the above statement, and let go of EVER wanting/expecting your mother to love you.

 

I know you NEED her to, but I also know that it's never going to happen. Joann, I sincerely hope that this helps you in some way. :grouphug:

 

 

:iagree: My sister has this particular issue with our mother, but surprisingly, life delivered not one, but two replacements. Have a look around. There might be a nice older lady around who'd be happy to fill your gap. Women miss having the right kind of mother, and many women miss having a daughter.

 

 

Rosie

 

Wise, wise advice.

 

The sister I mentioned feels very strongly that our mother failed her. I, on the other hand, feel that our mother did the best she could within her own set of limitations, and do not 'blame' her for anything. I recognize her humanity.

 

Perhaps having this resolution, as cruddy as it is, you will be able to get your needs met elsewhere, as Rosie mentions.

 

 

a

[Scarlett]

Joann,

 

In my life before children, I was a family counselor (ironic, isn't it?). In all those years, I realized that the Mother Void is the most powerful force on the planet, except Accepting Forgiveness. The hardest thing for a child, teen, or adult to realize is this:

 

 

 

Your mother is not now, nor will she EVER BE, the mother that you need her to be.

 

For many, many people, this is the source of pain for a lifetime. The only thing I have EVER seen work to take away the power of the Mother Void is Accepting Forgiveness. This means that you come to terms with the above statement, and let go of EVER wanting/expecting your mother to love you.

 

I know you NEED her to, but I also know that it's never going to happen. Joann, I sincerely hope that this helps you in some way. :grouphug:

 

 

I have found this to be so true over the course of my life. I first saw it with my mom and her mother. Although the details are different, my mom didn't feel like her mother was a 'real' mother to her. I was in my early 20s when I told my mom something similar to the words above. She has never forgotten it....she often tells me and other people what I said back then, 'Look mom Grandma is never gonna be that kind of mom to you. You just have to realize that we dont all get what we deserve in a parent (I didn't a decent father until late in life in my 2nd step dad), and we just have to deal with it. " She was able to view her mother in an entirely different light then.

 

But still Joann :grouphug: